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Which Master/Apprentice duo takes this fight?

Anakin Skywalker as of Revenge of the Sith.
Obi-Wan Kenobi as of Revenge of the Sith.

Count Dooku as of Revenge of the Sith.
Asajj Ventress as of The Clone Wars: Season 5.

Darth Bane as of Dynasty of Evil.
Darth Zannah as of Dynasty of Evil.

Round 1 takes place on Ambria. Round 2 takes place on the Lothal plains.

Bane/Zannah, easily.

Both rounds?

Depends on Anakin's mindset.

Probably Bane and Zannah. Obi-Wan and Ventress are the weak links here.

Originally posted by ares834
Depends on Anakin's mindset. Agreed.

Bane and Zannah solidly.

Originally posted by ares834
Depends on Anakin's mindset.



Otherwise, Dooku's the strongest on the field and Ventress is capable of holding her own against any of the others.

Team 2, probably.

Anakin and Kenobi

Dooku and Ventress put up a good fight though

Team 2, yeah, with Team 1 coming in 2nd.

Anakin and Dooku are the strongest on the field, and Dooku can't be killed by anyone but Anakin himself. Zannah's mind stuff has nothing on the Count.

So, Team 2, sometimes Team 1 if Zannah successfully preys on Anakin's screwed up mind.

Bane and Zannah can't win, but they could hand the victory to team 1 if they so choose.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


Otherwise, Dooku's the strongest on the field and Ventress is capable of holding her own against any of the others.

I doubt Ventress would hold her own long enough against Bane or Zonakin. And Dooku and Bane are imo very close.

None of the members of the other team would last against Zannah's illusions and spells.

Just like she wouldn't last against being ragdolled by Dooku or Anakin

Originally posted by carthage
Anakin and Kenobi

Dooku and Ventress put up a good fight though

Kenobi and Dooku are going to laugh at the illusiions. Kenobi's not the best force user ever, but he's got one of the most stable and sound minds ever.

I dunno if Ventress can shrug 'em off or not.

Only Anakin is truly vulnerable...so, I dunno, Team 2 wins 3 out of 4 fights, Team 1 wins the other one.

This figures Zannah has an even chance of targeting any of her 4 opponents.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Kenobi and Dooku are going to laugh at the illusiions.
Bane wasn't exactly laughing at Zannah's illusions. He was brought to his knees by them before overcoming them, and he has greater feats of willpower and mental resistance than either Kenobi or Dooku.

Dooku wasn't exactly laughing when Talzin was playing voodoo with him and jabbed a needle into his voodoo doll's forehead. He was screaming and clutching his head on his bed from that pain. Coincidentally, Zannah's attack begins with the pain of a knife stabbing into ones skull and exploding into a million shards inside of their head.

I'm not exactly sure where the idea that Dooku would casually shrug off Zannah's illusions when he lacks the same feats of willpower and mental resistance than Bane has. Dooku is certainly not fearless either, so that argument falls flat.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Kenobi's not the best force user ever, but he's got one of the most stable and sound minds ever.
And he also had the privilege of watching his master die, his three love interests die, a fellow Jedi Master he was particularly close to die, his best friend fall to the dark side, and his entire order be destroyed. He's actually cited as having frequent nightmares in one book due to these events. He certainly won't be laughing at these illusions.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
I dunno if Ventress can shrug 'em off or not.
Based on the fact that Ventress was wailing and screaming just from having several flashbacks to her past, she would be rather vulnerable to them.

Great post, DMB.

Yeah, DMB wanking illusions as opposed to making a case for Zannah's lack of dueling ability also continually denying the fact she has to gather power. Keep up the trolling DMB I'd love to know how she is going to use her illusions/mind tricks when she's getting beaten down by every other duelist whose better than she is.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Great post, DMB.
Thanks Joker http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2811/36/97/52/smiles/4080723039.gif

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Team 2, yeah, with Team 1 coming in 2nd.

Anakin and Dooku are the strongest on the field, and Dooku can't be killed by anyone but Anakin himself. Zannah's mind stuff has nothing on the Count.

So, Team 2, sometimes Team 1 if Zannah successfully preys on Anakin's screwed up mind.

Bane and Zannah can't win, but they could hand the victory to team 1 if they so choose.

Bane is inferior to every other duelist on the field in terms of feats, and Zannah is susceptible to being dominated via TK or losing a duel.

Agreed though, they're not even a factor at all in this fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane/Zannah, easily.
So Neph, seeing as we both agree on which duo wins, which of the other duos do you think is superior to the other?

Dooku and Ventress or Anakin and Kenobi?

How come you ignore Carthage DMB?

How come everyone doesn't ignore carthage tho.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How come everyone doesn't ignore carthage tho.

Originally posted by ares834
Depends on Anakin's mindset.

This. Normally, I would say Dooku and Ventress take the majority.

I could see Team 1 taking it, but Team 2 takes it most likely. Zannah is a weaklink that either Dooku or Anakin could easily best.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How come everyone doesn't ignore carthage tho.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt255/stevelovesmoonspell/aabane.jpg

Team 3

How are people underestimating Bane so much?

Shut up, troll.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
How are people underestimating Bane so much?


List the feats of his that you find most impressive, and ask for or look up the entire passages of the feats and pay close attention.

Or it might be easier to just ask for/look up his off-nexus feats.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
How are people underestimating Bane so much?

There's been an influx of Bane haters. They dismiss a lot of his feats and accolades and put him very low in terms of power. The worst thing is that people actually listen to these trolls.

Bane and Zannah could win in a close fight tbh.

I've yet to see a valid reason as to why they're even capable of winning. Other than DMBs LOL illusions wank, they're the weakest duo on the field in skill and power

Originally posted by Nephthys
There's been an influx of Bane haters. They dismiss a lot of his feats and accolades and put him very low in terms of power. The worst thing is that people actually listen to these trolls.

This is so sad.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
How are people underestimating Bane so much?

I'd say it's more of a reassessment of his placement than underestimating, really. Most of Bane's best feats occur on Force nexuses or are performed whilst wearing or in the presence of Force-aiding paraphernalia {e.g. orbalisks}. He's superb for his time and good in any time, just some of us {myself included} rank a lot of other really good people higher than him.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'd say it's more of a reassessment of his placement than underestimating, really. Most of Bane's best feats occur on Force nexuses or are performed whilst wearing or in the presence of Force-aiding paraphernalia {e.g. orbalisks}. He's superb for his time and good in any time, just some of us {myself included} rank a lot of other really good people higher than him.
Well said

I also subscribe to this position.


Anyways,

Anakin* & Kenobi > Dooku & Ventress > Bane & Zannah

* assuming he's zoned out.

Originally posted by carthage
Bane is inferior to every other duelist on the field in terms of feats, and Zannah is susceptible to being dominated via TK or losing a duel.

Agreed though, they're not even a factor at all in this fight.


Originally posted by carthage
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt255/stevelovesmoonspell/aabane.jpg
OH....f**ck......hahaha love this meme.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'd say it's more of a reassessment of his placement than underestimating, really. Most of Bane's best feats occur on Force nexuses or are performed whilst wearing or in the presence of Force-aiding paraphernalia {e.g. orbalisks}. He's superb for his time and good in any time, just some of us {myself included} rank a lot of other really good people higher than him.

I don't think we should discredit Bane's feats just because they took place on nexuses. There's only so much these nexuses can amplify in terms of power. It'd be foolish to assume they boost anything more than 15/100, maximum. I know it's difficult to actually quantify exactly how powerful one is off nexus when feats are accomplished on them, but it's fair to assume that if an individual is capable of performing such powerful feats on a nexus, he'd be capable of replicating them to a slightly less degree, or at least something close to the power shown on the nexus. And that's not mere speculation, that's based on what we've seen from SW characters.

While it is true that Orbalisks give a great advantage to RoT Bane, they are essentially just extremely tough armor and adrenaline stims, if I remember correctly. Whatever Force feat he performed whilst wearing the Orbalisks, he would definitely be able to perform without them.

15/100 is supposedly roughly the difference between Vader and Sidious.

To say that's not a huge increase is ridiculous. I mean come on, look at what Ambria was able to do for Zannah, Nexuses are huge.

That's just a number to try and put up some perspective, but I think 15/100 is pushing it. It's probably more like 10/100 or a bit less. You don't think Zannah'd be able to do anything close to that feat off nexus?

We don't see a drastic power shift in characters in CW cartoon series when they're on and off nexus. There is a boost, but nothing suggests it's a huge boost.

When in the clone wars cartoon have we seen a Nexus?

Apart from Korriban, and need I remind you that Sidious created an illusion that even Yoda failed to see through, from across the galaxy? I don't think he could do that anywhere else.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
That's just a number to try and put up some perspective, but I think 15/100 is pushing it. It's probably more like 10/100 or a bit less.
Prove it.

You've discussed this with Neph tirelessly on the other thread. We've seen several characters in different scenarios being amped by nexuses and then we've seen them fighting in a regular planet. Based on that, you can't possibly think a nexus provides more than 10/100. That's your proof. We've never seen a character's power increase dramatically when in a nexus, only partially. Although it's impossible (so far) to calculate the exact power amp, the logic Neph utilized is definitely the most reasonable one when attempting to quantify the power a nexus adds to an individual.

10/100 is drastic; not that it works like that anyway.

On a Force Nexus, a Force User's capabilities with the Force are significantly improved. You can continue to baselessly guesstimate how much of an impact it could have on a feat, but in reality it's unquantifiable. Nexus feats cannot be taken as something a Force User is normally capable of, and there's no way to calculate that boost away into something that can be used. You shouldn't even bother with them.

Bane can as much collapse temples as Nyax can hurl capital ships.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
You've discussed this with Neph tirelessly on the other thread. We've seen several characters in different scenarios being amped by nexuses and then we've seen them fighting in a regular planet. Based on that, you can't possibly think a nexus provides more than 10/100. That's your proof.
LOL

That's no proof at all, but your guesstimate.

You are terrible at this.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Although it's impossible (so far) to calculate the exact power amp, the logic Neph utilized is definitely the most reasonable one when attempting to quantify the power a nexus adds to an individual.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/430/877/271.gif

Originally posted by NewGuy01
10/100 is drastic; not that it works like that anyway.

On a Force Nexus, a Force User's capabilities with the Force are significantly improved. You can continue to baselessly guesstimate how much of an impact it could have on a feat, but in reality it's unquantifiable. Nexus feats cannot be taken as something a Force User is normally capable of, and there's no way to calculate that boost away into something that can be used. You shouldn't even bother with them.

Bane can as much collapse temples as Nyax can hurl capital ships.
Exactly

Originally posted by Stigma
LOL

That's no proof at all, but your guesstimate.

You are terrible at this.


http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/430/877/271.gif


Exactly

Thought you didn't want to make this personal?


I know it's unquantifiable, that's why I said it can't be quantified with precision. I know there is no way to prove it, but we can estimate accurately based on what we've seen.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Thought you didn't want to make this personal?
Sorry if it came off a bit harsh, but your point was really silly.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
I know it's unquantifiable, that's why I said it can't be quantified with precision. I know there is no way to prove it, but we can estimate accurately based on what we've seen.
Um... so "it can't be quantified with precision" means that "we can estimate accuratly"... OK.

I think that the amp is 15/100. This is my accurate estimate.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
10/100 is drastic; not that it works like that anyway.

On a Force Nexus, a Force User's capabilities with the Force are significantly improved. You can continue to baselessly guesstimate how much of an impact it could have on a feat, but in reality it's unquantifiable. Nexus feats cannot be taken as something a Force User is normally capable of, and there's no way to calculate that boost away into something that can be used. You shouldn't even bother with them.

Bane can as much collapse temples as Nyax can hurl capital ships.

So in what circumstances could a nexus feat be taken seriously? Cause completely ignoring every single feat that took place on a nexus is a bit excessive imo.

Quantifying with precision is not the same as estimating accurately.

Well, okay. My estimate is 10/100, maybe a bit less.

But I won't bother arguing this. I can't prove it concisely, so according to forum debating rules, you win.

Originally posted by Sinious
So in what circumstances could a nexus feat be taken seriously? Cause completely ignoring every single feat that took place on a nexus is a bit excessive imo.
Sorry to interject, but why it's excessive? It's only logical, actually.

Besides, vast majority of characters have off nexus feats to draw from. Even the likes of Bane and Vitiate have some.

Unless you mean to say that given that characters like Bane have 90% of their feats on DS nexuses, their placement in the grand scheme of things must be reconsidered, and indeed has been basing it on their off nexus feats.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Well, okay. My estimate is 10/100, maybe a bit less.

But I won't bother arguing this. I can't prove it concisely, so according to forum debating rules, you win.
Thanks. It takes a bigger man to state openly that he concedes

Neph, watch and learn.

I'd rather watch genital surgery.

Bane and Zannah

Originally posted by Raptor22
Bane and Zannah die first