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For those who don't know, the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity chapter of OU were caught on video singing racist chants:

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This scandal has of course sparked national controversy and protests. Rapper Waka Flocks Flame cancelled his concert there and football recruit Jean Delance quit the team in response to the video. Death threats were issued to the chanters, and several SAE alumni have left.

http://theweek.com/speedreads/544255/oklahoma-sae-fraternity-suing-university-over-racism-allegations

What do you think? Are they racists deserving to be villified? Kids who made a mistake? Or does the first amendment give them a right to be racist?

Most importantly, between this and the recent unpunished murders of Trayvon Martin and Eric Garner, what does this say about the state of racism in this country?

The kids got expelled. Out of millions of Black Americans a few incidents the media makes a big deal about because racism sells.

No wonder they like it, they make money off it.

Btw Zimmerman was Hispanic, not white.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman

I guess you didn't know Blacks and Mexicans hate each other..

They are racists. Some of them probably did make a mistake and don't really hold outright racist beliefs. The first amendment is not an absolute right, there are caveats, however it should protect them from government prosecution, not however from consequences like people being disgusted by them and voicing that opinion nor the University of Oklahoma expelling them for misconduct.

It's one of many incident which show that racism is alive and thriving. Obviously racism's face has changed, but it is still prevalent, and it's still harmful.

Originally posted by Bardock42
They are racists. Some of them probably did make a mistake and don't really hold outright racist beliefs. The first amendment is not an absolute right, there are caveats, however it should protect them from government prosecution, not however from consequences like people being disgusted by them and voicing that opinion nor the University of Oklahoma expelling them for misconduct.

It's one of many incident which show that racism is alive and thriving. Obviously racism's face has changed, but it is still prevalent, and it's still harmful.

Racism exists world wide, this isn't just an American problem or is Germany the Mecca of equality?

Also like the article says Black Americas problem isn't white racism.

http://humanevents.com/2013/07/19/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism/

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Racism exists world wide, this isn't just an American problem or is Germany the Mecca of equality?

He just said racism exists, not that it's worse in America (even though it most likely is).

Why can't you react without overshooting the mark?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Racism exists world wide, this isn't just an American problem or is Germany the Mecca of equality?

You are correct that racism exists worldwide, also in Germany. The US has a special problem with racism due to its history of chattel slavery and segregation.

Just as Germany is shaped by its history and the atrocity of Nazism and the Holocaust, so the US is shaped by its atrocities, however the process of dealing with that history has been much more slow, painful and stretched out due to the success of the United States over the last 2 centuries. While progress has been made the issue is still prevalent, and imo, one of the biggest that the United States face.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You are correct that racism exists worldwide, also in Germany. The US has a special problem with racism due to its history of chattel slavery and segregation.

Just as Germany is shaped by its history and the atrocity of Nazism and the Holocaust, so the US is shaped by its atrocities, however the process of dealing with that history has been much more slow, painful and stretched out due to the success of the United States over the last 2 centuries. While progress has been made the issue is still prevalent, and imo, one of the biggest that the United States face.

Actually it's the Middle East with the biggest racial issues, not America.

I didn't make a statement regarding comparative size of the problem of racism in different parts of the world.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I didn't make a statement regarding comparative size of the problem of racism in different parts of the world.

Ah yes but you don't really care nor concern yourself with Middle East racism. Just America. Middle East racism is far more rampant and deadly then here and closer to you, I would think you would concern yourself more with that then Americas problems with it.

You are right. I don't have much knowledge about racism in the Middle East. The United States are a country I am more interested in, and that I care about more than any in the Middle East.

Obviously I also won't take your word for it, since you have in the past shown to be blatantly misinformed on almost anything you choose to speak about.

At any rate, this thread is about the prevalent racism in the United States, so that is what I am commenting on.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You are right. I don't have much knowledge about racism in the Middle East. The United States are a country I am more interested in, and that I care about more than any in the Middle East.

Obviously I also won't take your word for it, since you have in the past shown to be blatantly misinformed on almost anything you choose to speak about.

At any rate, this thread is about the prevalent racism in the United States, so that is what I am commenting on.

You been misinformed about many things. But hey your only human. My point was that the small amount of racism in American between whites and blacks is vastly inferior to the crimes that are committed. You can blame racism but when a minority is committing all the crime, who's racist? Did you know thatt blacks are more racist then whites in America?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
when a minority is committing all the crime, who's racist?


The justice system?

Originally posted by Bardock42
The justice system?

The individuals, or do you not believe people can control their own actions?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Did you know thatt blacks are more racist then whites in America?

Where are you pulling this from?

Originally posted by -Pr-
He just said racism exists, not that it's worse in America (even though it most likely is).

Uh, no. It's far worse in many places including Europe. Just look at Greece.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Btw Zimmerman was Hispanic, not white.

You can be both. Hispanic doesn't refer to a specific race.

Originally posted by ares834
Where are you pulling this from?



Uh, no. It's far worse in many places including Europe. Just look at Greece.

Greece is bad, yes. As is Spain. Italy too. Would you still say they were as bad as the USA though?

Germany though? You think Germany has a bigger race problem than America? Really?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
The individuals, or do you not believe people can control their own actions?

I think people have some influence over their own actions, but reducing decision making to just that, and pretending there are no other factors is completely wrong imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Greece is bad, yes. As is Spain. Italy too. Would you still say they were as bad as the USA though?

Germany though? You think Germany has a bigger race problem than America? Really?

Greece and Italy are far worse. Yes. No clue on Spain or Germany but then I never mentioned them.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think people have some influence over their own actions, but reducing decision making to just that, and pretending there are no other factors is completely wrong imo.

So blacks have no free will and can't make the right decisions, sounds dangerous close to being racist if you think that way.

Originally posted by ares834
Greece and Italy are far worse. Yes. No clue on Spain or Germany but then I never mentioned them.

Italy is borderline imo. Greece... Maybe.

He mentioned Germany though, which is what I was referring to.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So blacks have no free will and can't make the right decisions, sounds dangerous close to being racist if you think that way.

Getting into free will vs. determinism seems misguided at the moment.

At any rate, black people are like all other people and as such don't have an absolute ability to decide whatever they want independent of outside influences.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Getting into free will vs. determinism seems misguided at the moment.

At any rate, black people are like all other people and as such don't have an absolute ability to decide whatever they want independent of outside influences.

Thats complete BS. Are you saying that because of past factors they have no chance to change their future?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Are you saying that because of past factors they have no chance to change their future?
No

Originally posted by Bardock42

At any rate, black people are like all other people and as such don't have an absolute ability to decide whatever they want independent of outside influences.

QFI then. What does this mean then?^

I can't help you if you don't understand the most basic things. You are a simpleton, and arguing with you is wasted time.

You stated a few times the same basic principle and now trying to weasel your way out of it, that black people don't have the ability to change their future, nor do they have free will, and its bs, they do..

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You stated a few times the same basic principle and now trying to weasel your way out of it, that black people don't have the ability to change their future, nor do they have free will, and its bs, they do..

he didn't say that. he said people's decisions are influenced by their surroundings/other influences.

not remotely the same thing.

Originally posted by -Pr-
he didn't say that. he said people's decisions are influenced by their surroundings/other influences.

not remotely the same thing.

That is it same thing, if my neighbor to my left kills his neighbor the the left, should I kill my neighbor to the right and claim I was influenced?

Time, Bardock never said external influences absolve you of any guilt.

The point is that we should work to identify and crush these harmful influences.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Time, Bardock never said external influences absolve you of any guilt.

The point is that we should work to identify and crush these harmful influences.

Ah so the then people should stop listening to their supposed leaders of their communities and just join the big community known as America.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
That is it same thing, if my neighbor to my left kills his neighbor the the left, should I kill my neighbor to the right and claim I was influenced?

That's not what he said at all. And no, it isn't the same thing.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's not what he said at all. And no, it isn't the same thing.

I was using it as an example of a crime which is murder that happens to be a big part of crime in black communities and it is on point whether you agree or not.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Greece is bad, yes. As is Spain. Italy too. Would you still say they were as bad as the USA though?

Germany though? You think Germany has a bigger race problem than America? Really?
It comes down to this. In Europe, Far Right groups loudly champion racism and make waves in European politics without actually setting policy. In America, there are racists in government who perpetuate racism and other prejudice while claiming we live in a post-racial America, and that anyone who points out examples of racism are just making trouble.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It comes down to this. In Europe, Far Right groups loudly champion racism and make waves in European politics without actually setting policy. In America, there are racists in government who perpetuate racism and other prejudice while claiming we live in a post-racial America, and that anyone who points out examples of racism are just making trouble.

I'd be inclined to agree.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I was using it as an example of a crime which is murder that happens to be a big part of crime in black communities and it is on point whether you agree or not.

you're not addressing his actual, original point.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It comes down to this. In Europe, Far Right groups loudly champion racism and make waves in European politics without actually setting policy. In America, there are racists in government who perpetuate racism and other prejudice while claiming we live in a post-racial America, and that anyone who points out examples of racism are just making trouble.

oh, definitely.

I think Europe has a bigger problem with in-your-face racism.

Whenever I'm in France or Belgium you hear about West African or South Asian immigrants getting beaten up or knifed at a train station just about every day by skinheads or other Far Right thugs, but you also don't have things like Eric Garner where the authorities themselves are found casually abusing minorities.

America is probably a better place for minorities than Europe if you don't want to get beaten up by unemployed kids on your way home from work. For everything else, Europe is the better deal.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
America is probably a better place for minorities than Europe if you don't want to get beaten up by unemployed kids on your way home from work.

What kind of minority are we talking about?

This sounds like bullshit.

Originally posted by krisblaze
What kind of minority are we talking about?

This sounds like bullshit.
The non-white kind.

I haven't backed up anything I've said with statistics, because I'm speaking anecdotally based on what I've seen of both places. I could be very wrong.

The main problem in America is the joblessness among minorities. How can an adult man or woman support themselves if they do not work? I was talking to this guy that made that exact statement. He said that without any means to support himself, he felt just like a boy. A phucking kid. I mean imagine that? Now imagine that same feeling existing in the hearts and minds of millions of others just like him?

How about this scenario.
How many underemployed, and unemployed have nots are actually trying to get an education? The majority are just trying to survive by any means necessary, because realistically if they can't afford to buy toilet paper to wipe their asses, they certainly can't afford a text book that costs over a hundred dollars in many cases. Many of these people keep away from crime, while many others are looking at celebrities, and dreaming of living lives filled with decadence that the media tosses around like candy, and cupcakes. Many of these people are the ones that find themselves selling drugs, guns, and winding up in state prisons. What does this do to the already socially stricken individual? Well it makes their futures quite bleak. They didn't grow up thinking that their lot in life was going to be so sh!tty, but the cold hard truth hit them one day, when they realized that the possibility of going to the best college was just not in their futures.

The rabbit hole so to speak, is indeed deeper than we may at first believe. Racism in America is very much alive, but it has taken on new forms. The KKK isn't out lynching minorities as much any longer. What's happening is that people are being lynched in the workplace. Some of those young adults from the video in the OP aren't racist, but the ones that are, and the ones that are too smart to be pegged for their racist beliefs will one day be at the top in corporations. This is happening all over the US as we speak. What are the chances that minorities will ever hold a top position in those corporations that are run by racists? You phucking tell me.

I read a column, and a man stated that he had the same job as a White co-worker but was being paid only 75% of what his co-worker was making, and yet he had a better education. What is one to believe when reading something like that? I mean if that is true, does that mean that someone from a minority is purposely paid less so that they aren't able to afford to move out of the shanty that they call home, and into a neighborhood that they aren't afraid to raise their children in? I'm fortunate, because at any time that the bullsh!t gets too thick in this country, I can pack up, and take my wife to Canada.

Are these statistics lying?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/08/21/through-good-times-and-bad-black-unemployment-is-consistently-double-that-of-whites/

Years ago, while on AOL chat, a person made a joke. Do you know what he said? He asked the room what was long and Black... His answer was the Welfare line Lolololol. Now how funny is that, when it's true? How can a large group of people remain calm when they are systemically under attack? According to the statistics presented on that website that I just posted, there is a silent war going on in America. I had a scary thought the other day. When will it become audible? Is America in store for another Civil war the likes that has never been seen before?

Just my thoughts on things.

I guess my problem is..didn't they ban everyone from the frat? Was EVERY single person taking part in a racist song? If not, it doesn't make sense to punish everyone.

I'm sure some are saying "well if they weren't singing they just sat there and let it happen", well, what do you those people were supposed to do? I would of felt EXTREMELY uncomfortable in such a situation, and I wouldn't know what to say or how to stop it. They were riding on a bus, right? So..did they expect everyone who wasn't racist to just force the bus to pull over so they could get off? I'm confused here.

Really? Expelled a group of students over some ****ing chants?
Is this how soft our generation has become? I never thought the PG Era could be any worse.

Methinks you brought this up to counter that thread about that black girl beating on a white girl and her younger brother.

These dickbags weren't expelled over a rendition of Queen's "We Will Rock You" type "chant" Asbestos.

This was racist douchery.

**** 'em.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Really? Expelled a group of students over some ****ing chants?
Is this how soft our generation has become? I never thought the PG Era could be any worse.

Methinks you brought this up to counter that thread about that black girl beating on a white girl and her younger brother.

So if they were chanting about, say, raping a child, would you want them to be immune from punishment from that as well?

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Really? Expelled a group of students over some ****ing chants?
Is this how soft our generation has become? I never thought the PG Era could be any worse.

Methinks you brought this up to counter that thread about that black girl beating on a white girl and her younger brother.

Well you should be expelled when you chant about hanging Blacks and how a Black person will never be your equal or colleague.

Ho-hum.
It's the "don't judge me 'cause I'm black" circular reasoning again.

Btw, I never said anything of the sort. I've never generalized black people as thugs.
The majority of American blacks (keywords: majority, American) probably are, based on what I've seen from the media and the people I've personally encountered, but there are those who are definitely not.

What does any of that have to do with the OU controversy?

As a black man who had has probably observed more blacks than you, I can confidently say that's not the case. Maybe teenagers act like that, but most black men I know have matured past such thinking.

Thing is though, you answered a question that wasn't asked. Are you saying because, IYO, "most blacks are thugs", that these SAE asswipes are justified in singing their chant and deserve no punishment for it?

Seems like you chose a thread involving the topic of racism just to spout your generalized views instead of analyzing the topic itself. TI did the exact same thing.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon


Btw, I never said anything of the sort. I've never generalized black people as thugs.

The majority of American blacks probably are

Edited for clarity of what's being said.

Originally posted by Quincy
These dickbags weren't expelled over a rendition of Queen's "We Will Rock You" type "chant" Asbestos.

This was racist douchery.

**** 'em.

Yeah, but then shouldn't it be that the only people punished are those who were specifically taking part in the chanting?

I also can't help wondering what people would be saying if the situation were reversed. If some black students were caught on tape singing a racist song about white kids and they were then EXPELLED from school for it, would people still be as outraged? Would they still support the students being expelled?

Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah, but then shouldn't it be that the only people punished are those who were specifically taking part in the chanting?

Does the video record the entire incident? Maybe it was like, how can we be sure to punish the specific chanters? If it was everyone involved, the only option they have is to punish all of them cohesively. Set an example.

Originally posted by Surtur
If some black students were caught on tape singing a racist song about white kids and they were then EXPELLED from school for it, would people still be as outraged? Would they still support the students being expelled?

Yes they would support the kids being expelled.

Originally posted by Quincy
Does the video record the entire incident? Maybe it was like, how can we be sure to punish the specific chanters? If it was everyone involved, the only option they have is to punish all of them cohesively. Set an example.

But why would the example they want to set be "well, if you can't figure out who did something just punish EVERYONE involved" ?

If they have no evidence someone took part in this racist chant, then they have no legitimate reason to expel them. A person gets their life ruined forever just so an example can be set?

Should've stood up to their frat rather than stand by and allow them to be racist. A few bad apples spoils the whole bunch.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Should've stood up to their frat rather than stand by and allow them to be racist. A few bad apples spoils the whole bunch.

Right, so they should of..what, gotten up and left the bus? Or do you feel they should of tried to confront a bus full of obnoxious a-holes all so they didn't appear racist?

But here, let us say a few people did get up and try to stop them. How? Physically restrain them? Beat them down until they can no longer talk? Since merely saying "hey stop that" isn't going to magically cause these pr*cks to stop.

Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah, but then shouldn't it be that the only people punished are those who were specifically taking part in the chanting?

I also can't help wondering what people would be saying if the situation were reversed. If some black students were caught on tape singing a racist song about white kids and they were then EXPELLED from school for it, would people still be as outraged? Would they still support the students being expelled?

That Black frat would've been banished just as well. I don't support anit-White songs or movements.

So it's okay to be complacent with hatred?

And BTW, when I was in middle school I went to a black prep school. As I stated above, black teens are immature, and were thus making fun of a white kid. Me and my brother stood up to them and they summarily stopped their crap. So....yeah....

Originally posted by Surtur
But why would the example they want to set be "well, if you can't figure out who did something just punish EVERYONE involved" ?

If they have no evidence someone took part in this racist chant, then they have no legitimate reason to expel them. A person gets their life ruined forever just so an example can be set?

What would your suggestion be then? I'm sure they weighed the different options. Have you been in a fraternity? Those are your brothers and shit. Once you're in, you're like a family. For better or worse or something.

Are you more annoyed with the racist chant or the punishment?

Originally posted by Surtur
Since merely saying "hey stop that" isn't going to magically cause these pr*cks to stop.

But at least it shows an effort. Better than being complacent with hatred just because everyone else was doing it. If we just stood around because we were too afraid to confront hatred bigger than us, where would humanity be right now?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
That Black frat would've been banished just as well. I don't support anit-White songs or movements.

I guess people misunderstood the question. I'm not saying the black frat wouldn't be banned, I'm wondering if as many people would SUPPORT the banning?

Or do you feel some people would try to play the victim? There is no nice way to say it, but I think you can agree some people are of the opinion that if a certain race has suffered a lot of racism in the past..that gives them some leeway on being racist in the present. I saw some people having a similar attitude with the whole Ferguson thing, in the sense of saying "well it's wrong, but on the other hand they have dealt with a lot of racism in the past."

We're punishing people for not standing up to ignorance?

If so then we should all be in jail for not actively stopping TI's posts.

Originally posted by Lestov16
But at least it shows an effort. Better than being complacent with hatred just because everyone else was doing it. If we just stood around because we were too afraid to confront hatred bigger than us, where would humanity be right now?

But see, I think you need to take into account things like peer pressure. It exists, even in college. I just don't know..if I'd punish people for essentially being cowards. Or rather, I don't know if I'd EXPEL them for it.

It's not always easy to stand up to bullies, and make no mistake: that is exactly what these people are, bullies.

Originally posted by krisblaze
We're punishing people for not standing up to ignorance?

If so then we should all be in jail for not actively stopping TI's posts.

I did, but got out for time (immemorial) served.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I did, but got out for time (immemorial) served.



In all seriousness. America is seemingly a country where the ruling mindset is that "people are poor because they're lazy".

And you want people to be punished for not standing up to racism? Which is just ignorance/media scare.

It seems so pointless to make one brand of ignorance illegal and not the other.

Originally posted by Surtur
I guess people misunderstood the question. I'm not saying the black frat wouldn't be banned, I'm wondering if as many people would SUPPORT the banning?

Or do you feel some people would try to play the victim? There is no nice way to say it, but I think you can agree some people are of the opinion that if a certain race has suffered a lot of racism in the past..that gives them some leeway on being racist in the present. I saw some people having a similar attitude with the whole Ferguson thing, in the sense of saying "well it's wrong, but on the other hand they have dealt with a lot of racism in the past."

The White people in the video are trying to play the victim and they have people supporting them. I would fully support a Black frat getting canned for racial slurs and songs. Ferguson is a racist town, nothing more I can say about that.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Ho-hum.
It's the "don't judge me 'cause I'm black" circular reasoning again.

Btw, I never said anything of the sort. I've never generalized black people as thugs.
The majority of American blacks (keywords: majority, American) probably are, based on what I've seen from the media and the people I've personally encountered, but there are those who are definitely not. Wow, you're an idiot.

Originally posted by Surtur
I guess people misunderstood the question. I'm not saying the black frat wouldn't be banned, I'm wondering if as many people would SUPPORT the banning?

Yes they would. There would probably be about as much opposition to their ban as there is to this one.

Originally posted by Surtur
Or do you feel some people would try to play the victim? There is no nice way to say it, but I think you can agree some people are of the opinion that if a certain race has suffered a lot of racism in the past..that gives them some leeway on being racist in the present.

Some, but they are a minority, and most certainly do not represent the aggregate view of the black community.


Originally posted by Surtur
I saw some people having a similar attitude with the whole Ferguson thing, in the sense of saying "well it's wrong, but on the other hand they have dealt with a lot of racism in the past."

And those people were immediately vilified by the black community at large. Every black person I know, both personally and in the media, said the looting/rioting in Ferguson was wretched and made blacks look bad.

I do feel people should stand up for things, but as someone who was bullied in school I know..it's not always easy to be the odd man out and stand up to these people. It might be the right thing to do, but it's not an easy thing to do..and it sort of feels like these kids were punished for being cowards.

Especially given how expensive paying for college can be? I don't know if I'd of expelled them for not trying to silence a large group of racist d-bags. Or maybe I am overestimating the toll being expelled for college for racism could take on a persons future.

Originally posted by krisblaze


In all seriousness. America is seemingly a country where the ruling mindset is that "people are poor because they're lazy".

And you want people to be punished for not standing up to racism? Which is just ignorance/media scare.

It seems so pointless to make one brand of ignorance illegal and not the other.

In America, if one guy stood up and was video taped voicing his opinion against all of that then he would've been a 15 minute celebrity. They would've dubbed him "The boy with the courage to say stop." A lot of those boys missed a great opportunity.

Originally posted by krisblaze


In all seriousness. America is seemingly a country where the ruling mindset is that "people are poor because they're lazy".

And you want people to be punished for not standing up to racism? Which is just ignorance/media scare.

It seems so pointless to make one brand of ignorance illegal and not the other.

Well I said nothing about legality. Expulsion isn't a legal process, is it?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
In America, if one guy stood up and was video taped voicing his opinion against all of that then he would've been a 15 minute celebrity. They would've dubbed him "The boy with the courage to say stop." A lot of those boys missed a great opportunity.

The problem is people are not always thinking ahead in terms of "gee if I act a certain way I might become famous".

They might of been not looking for opportunities to get their 15 minutes of fame..they might of just been looking to not confront a large group of racist douchebags at that moment.

So sure, they missed a chance for some fame, but they deserve to be expelled for it? Makes no sense to me. Contrary to what you might think not everyone wants to be a celebrity, and keep in mind: this country is FULL of nutjobs. Some might of thought they were heroes, and others might of thought the exact opposite. Even if a large majority viewed them as heroes..well, it just takes ONE nutjob to f*ck up your life.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
In America, if one guy stood up and was video taped voicing his opinion against all of that then he would've been a 15 minute celebrity. They would've dubbed him "The boy with the courage to say stop." A lot of those boys missed a great opportunity.

Another thing too is that I'm highly doubtful that this is the first instance of racism exhibited by this frat, which means whoever was complacent on that bus had been complacent with the frat's racism for a long while and never said anything, even anonymously.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
In America, if one guy stood up and was video taped voicing his opinion against all of that then he would've been a 15 minute celebrity. They would've dubbed him "The boy with the courage to say stop." A lot of those boys missed a great opportunity. He would be getting blowjobs like it was going out of style.

What a bunch of dumb dumbs.

Originally posted by Surtur
The problem is people are not always thinking ahead in terms of "gee if I act a certain way I might become famous".

They might of been not looking for opportunities to get their 15 minutes of fame..they might of just been looking to not confront a large group of racist douchebags at that moment.

So sure, they missed a chance for some fame, but they deserve to be expelled for it? Makes no sense to me. Contrary to what you might think not everyone wants to be a celebrity, and keep in mind: this country is FULL of nutjobs. Some might of thought they were heroes, and others might of thought the exact opposite. Even if a large majority viewed them as heroes..well, it just takes ONE nutjob to f*ck up your life.

Well TBF, I highly doubt anybody on that bus knew the video was going to Youtube. They probably didn't even know they were being filmed.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Another thing too is that I'm highly doubtful that this is the first instance of racism exhibited by this frat, which means whoever was complacent on that bus had been complacent with the frat's racism for a long while and never said anything, even anonymously.

The problem is though..how do we have any way of being sure? I'm sure this wasn't the first time these people were racist, but can I say this is the first time they all acted blatantly racist? I dunno.

Though again I still say, why should someone be expelled for cowardice?

Yeah, I can't get onboard with the expelling the students who weren't singing along and partaking, if there were any indeed not partaking.

Call them cowards, fools or whatever, they technically did nothing wrong.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Well TBF, I highly doubt anybody on that bus knew the video was going to Youtube. They probably didn't even know they were being filmed.

This is another good point. The fact someone leaked the video..doesn't it mean someone DID have a problem with what they did?

It's either that or these people were so naive they thought posting a video of them singing a racist chant wouldn't be seen in a negative light? I will admit, some people can be THAT ignorant. It's also possible someone began recording just to expose these douches.

Yeah they are cowards, but some seem to be acting like this is equivalent to deserting your post during a time of war and going awol or something.

I do see your point, but if anything, this would get the "innocents" expelled more pissed off at their racist frat than anything else, which I guess is kind of the point.

I guess I'm less empathetic because, as I said before, I am unafraid to stand up to hatred on a bus, and I'm most certainly not the bravest person in the world. I would hope that privileged college students would have more fortitude than me, but I guess not.

Actually, the students that did nothing could be seen as guilty for not reporting threats of violence. Do wonder if the school used this as a reason to expel everyone, regardless if they chanted along or not.

Wait, the school expelled everyone involved? Are you sure? I thought it was only the two leaders of the group.

Expelling people who were simply there and not chanting along is, frankly, ridiculous.

Not sure, but that seems what people in this thread are saying/debating

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/university-of-oklahoma-sigma-alpha-epsilon-racist-fraternity-video.html?_r=0

Apparently it was only 2. So now I'm unsure why the phuck we were even discussing this. Who brought this "everyone was expelled" stuff up?

Originally posted by Lestov16
Well I said nothing about legality. Expulsion isn't a legal process, is it?

It's not, but I don't know what to call it actually.

Originally posted by Lestov16
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/university-of-oklahoma-sigma-alpha-epsilon-racist-fraternity-video.html?_r=0

Apparently it was only 2. So now I'm unsure why the phuck we were even discussing this. Who brought this "everyone was expelled" stuff up?

That's stupid as well. They should have expelled everyone who was signing along.

Maybe they wanted, but weren't able to prove with 100% accuracy who was singing?

That's more than likely the case. Kinda hard to see who was singing when everyone is in unison and there are bus chairs covering mostly everyone's face.

bunch of buggery

Originally posted by Surtur
I guess my problem is..didn't they ban everyone from the frat?

Negative

The frat itself was disbanded, the two lead kids were expelled

Doesn't seem too harsh a punishment.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Doesn't seem too harsh a punishment.

Yeah not everyone was expelled, but the frat was disbanded. You say it's not a harsh punishment, my problem is the fact there needed to be punishment at all for the people who did not participate.

I feel people can be disappointed over cowardice, but PUNISHED?

Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, the students that did nothing could be seen as guilty for not reporting threats of violence. Do wonder if the school used this as a reason to expel everyone, regardless if they chanted along or not.

So wait, singing a song with violent lyrics equates to threatening people with violence?

If they were singing that "I shot the sheriff" song, would they of been detained and questioned over the possibility they had killed a sheriff?

Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah not everyone was expelled, but the frat was disbanded. You say it's not a harsh punishment, my problem is the fact there needed to be punishment at all for the people who did not participate.

I feel people can be disappointed over cowardice, but PUNISHED?

They weren't really punished. If anything, OU did them a favor. Something tells me having that frat on a job application won't go smooth.

Originally posted by Surtur
So wait, singing a song with violent lyrics equates to threatening people with violence?

If they were singing that "I shot the sheriff" song, would they of been detained and questioned over the possibility they had killed a sheriff?


Are you really comparing their racist chant to a Bob Marley/Eric Clapton song?

Originally posted by Lestov16
They weren't really punished. If anything, OU did them a favor. Something tells me having that frat on a job application won't go smooth.

They were punished. If they were given the option to leave the frat or remove it from a job application that is one thing. Not being given the option? That is punishment.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Are you really comparing their racist chant to a Bob Marley/Eric Clapton song?

What I'm saying is that when did reciting lyrics to a racist song become equivalent to a threat?

If you go walking down the street and you are singing the song "Cop Killa"..should you be detained for making threats against police officers?

Originally posted by Surtur
They were punished. If they were given the option to leave the frat or remove it from a job application that is one thing. Not being given the option? That is punishment.

Not really. You think the frat shouldn't have been disbanded?



Originally posted by Surtur
What I'm saying is that when did reciting lyrics to a racist song become equivalent to a threat?

If you go walking down the street and you are singing the song "Cop Killa"..should you be detained for making threats against police officers?

Mainstream pop songs aren't the same as explicitly saying that your frat will hang a black man from a tree and never accept them into the frat. It's not the same thing and you know it.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Not really. You think the frat shouldn't have been disbanded?

I think saying them being banned from the frat is not punishment is false, yes.



As I understand it, they were singing a racist song with racist lyrics. As opposed to..just on the spot making UP a song about how they love racism.

Just like there would be a difference between you, on the spot, making up a song about how you love killing cops and describing all the ways you'd kill cops..and you merely singing a song that contains violent lyrics.

I could see someone being detained/arrested depending on where they sang the song. I mean...walk up to a police and start singing "Cop Killer" or "I shot the Sheriff". What do you think will happen?

Regardless, this comparison doesn't work. "Cop Killer" is actually talking about police brutality and "I shot the sheriff" isn't advocating killing cops. The law stepping in on someone singing either is a different ball game.

This racist chant, literally, bans black people from their frat among other things. The institution decides to break it up. This isn't the law doing anything, this is the people deciding "hey, you may not have meant harm, but what you are doing is really ****ed up. The fact that you don't even realize it indicates there is a deeper problem within this campus organization that we refuse to tolerate. Your frat is no more."

I doubt any of them want to be in said Frat at this point. Disbanding the frat is hardly a punishment to folks who didn't partake in said racist chanting.

The Frat was being run by two racist assholes. The Frat gets closed. That is logical as hell.

They weren't "banned" from the frat. The frat itself was dissolved since, based on the song, racism is obviously pervasive in the frat.

It wasn't just "a racist song". It was an explicit representative of the frat's views.

Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, the students that did nothing could be seen as guilty for not reporting threats of violence. Do wonder if the school used this as a reason to expel everyone, regardless if they chanted along or not.
WTF.

So, if I was like, just sitting on the bus minding my own biz, I'd get expelled for doing nothing?

It's official. We live in the pussified PG generation.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I could also see someone totally being detained/arrested depending on where they sang the song. I mean...walk up to a police and start singing "Cop Killer" or "I shot the Sheriff". What do you think will happen?

Regardless, this comparison doesn't work. "Cop Killer" is actually talking about police brutality and "I shot the sheriff" isn't advocating killing cops. The law stepping in on someone singing either is different ball game.

This racist chant, literally, bans black people from their frat among other things. The institution decides to break it up. This isn't the law doing anything, this is the people deciding "hey, you may not have meant harm, but what you are doing is really ****ed up. The fact that you don't even realize it indicates there is a deeper problem within this campus organization that we refuse to tolerate. Your frat is no more."

The problem is though someone DID make mention of the law, that is what I responded to. Someone said they could be found guilty for "making threats". Which makes NO SENSE if they were just singing a song with violent lyrics.

That's the point.

It's just a ****in' song.
Yeah, it was racist and shit. Big deal. Get over it.

The offense was not grave enough to warrant an expulsion. That's why this incident is ridiculous.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
That's the point.

It's just a ****in' song.
Yeah, it was racist and shit. Big deal. Get over it.

The offense was not grave enough to warrant an expulsion.

So if I made a song explicitly about raping your mother, you wouldn't mind it, since it's just a ****in' song.

Originally posted by Lestov16
So if I made a song explicitly about raping your mother, you wouldn't mind it, since it's just a ****in' song.
Yes.

Why would I give a damn? I don't know you anyways.

Many forget the word****** is in common usage in all pop culture, openly said on radio stations, by black personalities, it's only racist if a white person says it..
That seems pretty racist and hypocritical to me, "do as I say, not as I do."

Originally posted by Surtur
The problem is though someone DID make mention of the law, that is what I responded to. Someone said they could be found guilty for "making threats". Which makes NO SENSE if they were just singing a song with violent lyrics.
I thought Robtard was referring to moral responsibility rather than legal issues. I think he was just trying to figure out why the school would expel every kid involved, back before everyone discovered only 2 were expelled.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Yes.

Why would I give a damn? I don't know you anyways.
If you were a student on campus, I think it would be reasonable to disband a fraternity that had a history of wanting to rape your mom.

Please remember people, this isn't just about a song. It's about a song sang in a specific context. You guys are jumping out into broad society with this stuff.

Originally posted by Lestov16
So if I made a song explicitly about raping your mother, you wouldn't mind it, since it's just a ****in' song.

There is a difference between minding that and feeling someone should be LEGALLY punished for doing that.

The quote I originally responded too was someone saying they could be found guilty of making "threats" because they sang a violent song lyric.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Many forget the word****** is in common usage in all pop culture, openly said on radio stations, by black personalities, it's only racist if a white person says it..
That seems pretty racist and hypocritical to me, "do as I say, not as I do."

I do agree with this. Don't know why "nigga" is such a popular term. But really, you'll notice only the dumb black people say this. I've said it before on the forum, but only in a parodying manner.

That being stated, are you saying because black people say it, it gave the kids on the bus a right to say it, and sing about lynching and discrimination as well.?

Everyone overreacts when something has to do with race or sexuality these days.

It seems to me the ones affected the most are the socially-repressed people like the blacks, homosexuals, and females/feminists.

The repercussion is that the punishment, at most times, is too severe when weighed to the negative action that was done by the perpetrator.
This incident is a prime example. They expelled students over a petty crime (if it even is a crime to sing racist songs or make racist comments) that hampered the future of these said students. They spent money, time, and effort for nothing... just because of a ****in' chant. WTF

Originally posted by StyleTime
I thought Robtard was referring to moral responsibility rather than legal issues. I think he was just trying to figure out why the school would expel every kid involved, back before everyone discovered only 2 were expelled.

Perhaps, but I just found the phrasing weird. Saying "they could be find guilty of threats" sounds like they'd be found guilty in a court of law, as opposed to the school just thinking they are sh*tty people with sh*tty morals. Something tells me though if they banned every frat that contained d-bags then..pretty much no frats would exist anywhere, ever.

Sure morally, it is wrong. But when it comes to legalities there shouldn't even be a discussion, it's in poor taste, but not illegal.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I do agree with this. Don't know why "nigga" is such a popular term. But really, you'll notice only the dumb black people say this.

Denzel Washinton, Al Sharpton, Chris Tucker, Dave Chapelle are dumb?

By Denzel, you mean the actor, or the characters he plays?

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
just because of a ****in' chant. WTF

A chant that talks about murdering and discriminating against an entire race of people.

If these kids were expelled for saying the N word, then some singers/rappers should be banned for saying the MF/F word.

Jeez, this thread is really exposing the racists on this board

Originally posted by Surtur
Perhaps, but I just found the phrasing weird. Saying "they could be find guilty of threats" sounds like they'd be found guilty in a court of law, as opposed to the school just thinking they are sh*tty people with sh*tty morals.

Sure morally, it is wrong. But when it comes to legalities there shouldn't even be a discussion, it's in poor taste, but not illegal.
Oh, I agree. It's legal.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
If these kids were expelled for saying the N word, then some singers/rappers should be banned for saying the MF/F word.
They weren't expelled for that.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
If these kids were expelled for simply saying the N word

So now you're trying to downplay their murderous/racist chant?

Originally posted by Surtur
There is a difference between minding that and feeling someone should be LEGALLY punished for doing that.

The quote I originally responded too was someone saying they could be found guilty of making "threats" because they sang a violent song lyric.

I'm not arguing the legality. As I said in the OP, they're probably protected legally via free speech laws. But to say they deserve no punishment whatsoever is ridiculous.

Yet Eminem and black rappers are rewarded with fame for saying things like that. Let's face it, the elite do whatever they want and we all argue about it like it "matters" to us.

Division of the people is the easiest way to conquest.

I've never heard Eminem say "nigga". If he did, it was a RARE occasion.

And stop trying to compare this racist chant to rap songs. It's a strawman.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial


Division of the people is the easiest way to conquest.

Abe Lincoln was right all along. That clever bastard.

Originally posted by Lestov16
So now you're trying to downplay their murderous/racist chant?
No, I'm not.
They should be reprimanded for that offensive song. Maybe suspended for a few days/weeks. But not expelled.

The punishment was too heavy relative to the offense.
It's like selling a child into slavery for stealing a loaf of bread.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
No, I'm not.
They should be reprimanded for that offensive song. Maybe suspended for a few days/weeks. But not expelled.

The punishment was too heavy relative to the offense.
It's like selling a child into slavery for stealing a loaf of bread.

You're comparing a song that proudly supports racial discrimination and KKK-style murder to stealing a loaf of bread?

Are these students Jean Valjean now?

Originally posted by Lestov16
I've never heard Eminem say "nigga". If he did, it was a RARE occasion.

And stop trying to compare this racist chant to rap songs. It's a strawman.

Actually truth hurts, under some circumstances it's ok to say it, and then only some people are "allowed" to say it.

Fact is people make money off it and it's ok for them.

Should anyone say it?

No absolutely not, but don't let hypocrisy rule.

Should those kids be punished? Yes. Should others profit from it no, but they do.

Hypocrisy.

And please don't say the music and film industry don't effect the minds of others.

If that was the case why are billions spent on advertising? People are stupid and like sheep and swaying the masses is easy.

People should be mad at the system then then other people.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Actually truth hurts, under some circumstances it's ok to say it, and then only some people are "allowed" to say it.

Fact is people make money off it and it's ok for them.

Should anyone say it?

No absolutely not, but don't let hypocrisy rule.

Should those kids be punished? Yes. Should others profit from it no, but they do.

Hypocrisy.

And please don't say the music and film industry don't effect the minds of others.

If that was the case why are billions spent on advertising? People are stupid and like sheep and swaying the masses is easy.

But it comes off like you're saying that just because some black people wallow in their ignorance, that grants racist white people the right to discriminate against and demean the entire race.

Originally posted by Lestov16
You're comparing a song that proudly supports racial discrimination and KKK-style murder to stealing a loaf of bread?
Nevertheless, getting expelled for chanting a racist/brutal song is too harsh a punishment, don't you think?

No. It's the perfect punishment.

Originally posted by Lestov16
No. It's the perfect punishment.
Why?
Is it right to jeopardize the futures of these students over a ****in' chant??
Were any black persons in the area physically harmed or died when they sang the chant?

Originally posted by Lestov16
But it comes off like you're saying that just because some black people wallow in their ignorance, that grants racist white people the right to discriminate against and demean the entire race.

Discrimination is discrimination wether you are the same color or not in my book. Does not set a good example when you demean your own kind.

Across the board its wrong.

Those kids were wrong, just like those kids beating up that girl and her brother and calling her a "white *****" is wrong..

Wrong is wrong.

I'm confused.

Were the ones who were singing it expelled or the ones who were in charge of the fraternity?

Also, how long an expulsion? Permanent? A few days?

AFAIK, expulsions are permanent. Suspensions are temporary.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Ho-hum.
It's the "don't judge me 'cause I'm black" circular reasoning again.

Btw, I never said anything of the sort. I've never generalized black people as thugs.
The majority of American blacks (keywords: majority, American) probably are, based on what I've seen from the media and the people I've personally encountered, but there are those who are definitely not.

"I'm not saying black people are a bunch of savages not deserving any respect or being treated like decent human beings. But Black people are a bunch of savages unworthy of respect or being treated like decent human beings.

There are a few good ones, but most should just rot. People were right to lynch them for their blackness" - AsbestosFlaygon, 2015

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Discrimination is discrimination wether you are the same color or not in my book. Does not set a good example when you demean your own kind.

Across the board its wrong.

Those kids were wrong, just like those kids beating up that girl and her brother and calling her a "white *****" is wrong..

Wrong is wrong.

Agreed, but it comes off like you are saying it was justified because "blacks do it too". Not saying that's your view but that is what your comments implied.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
"I'm not saying black people are a bunch of savages not deserving any respect or being dee like decent human beings. But Black people are a bunch of savages unworthy of respect or being treated like decent human beings.

There are a few good ones, but most should just rot. People were right to lynch them for their blackness" - AsbestosFlaygon, 2015

Wow. Seriously, AF?

Originally posted by Lestov16
Agreed, but it comes off like you are saying it was justified because "blacks do it too". Not saying that's your view but that is what your comments implied.

No its setting a bad example, getting a nasty word out of common usage should be up to all people including those who deem it ok to use amongst themselves.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
"I'm not saying black people are a bunch of savages not deserving any respect or being treated like decent human beings. But Black people are a bunch of savages unworthy of respect or being treated like decent human beings.

There are a few good ones, but most should just rot. People were right to lynch them for their blackness" - AsbestosFlaygon, 2015
Way to take statements out of context.

Read the damn post again, you asshat.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
No its setting a bad example, getting a nasty word out of common usage should be up to all people including those who deem it ok to use amongst themselves.

I think I get what you are saying here. If blacks want respect they must first learn to respect themselves. I agree, but it still gives SAE no right to chant what they did nor does it absolve them of punishment.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I think I get what you are saying here. If blacks want respect they must first learn to respect themselves. I agree, but it still gives SAE no right to chant what they did nor does it absolve them of punishment.

Agreed

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Way to take statements out of context.

Read the damn post again, you asshat.

I can't imagine any context that would justify those statements.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
"I'm not saying black people are a bunch of savages not deserving any respect or being treated like decent human beings. But Black people are a bunch of savages unworthy of respect or being treated like decent human beings.

There are a few good ones, but most should just rot. People were right to lynch them for their blackness" - AsbestosFlaygon, 2015

Thats not a quote, if your going to quote him saying that provide proof and a link. All you did was type your nonsense and add his name on it from what you have provided so far.

Did you think someone would not catch that?

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Way to take statements out of context.

Read the damn post again, you asshat.

Sorry my genetic inferiority makes it hard to read the posts of you superior races of man.

What you have actually said is more like "Blacks are a bunch of animals and don't deserve the freedom that they have. I'm not a racist because you see I know a few good black people exist (I just haven't met them, but exceptions to every rule) but the vast majority are little more than animals and should be treated as such"

Originally posted by Lestov16
I can't imagine any context that would justify those statements.
keywords: majority, Americans

Meaning "most American blacks".
Not the entire negroid race. NOT even ALL American blacks.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
keywords: majority, Americans

Meaning "most American blacks".
Not the entire negroid race.

"I'm not saying black people are sub-human. But black people are sub-human with a few that bridge the gap"

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
keywords: majority, Americans

Meaning "most American blacks".
Not the entire negroid race. Not even ALL American blacks.

Even that is massively offensive

Honesty is offensive now?

Is that what it is? Being honest?

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Honesty is offensive now? "I can't believe people don't like me saying they are a bunch of filthy savages. It's not my fault you are a bunch of worthless monkeys."

What? That most American blacks act or speak thuggish is offensive?

You don't see me whining if someone says that Chinese people are rude/arrogant, or Filipinos are social climbers/golddiggers.

Flaygon, just admit you are a racist. At least be a man about the fact that you are a piece of shit instead of just sounding like an idiot on top of it.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
What? That most American blacks act or speak thuggish is offensive?


So I'll take it you have statistics proving that "most blacks" act this way. Otherwise you are stereotyping out the ass.