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Logan vs 30 Alien Xenomorphs

Xenos

I'm thinking Wolverine tbh, if you believe his claws can withstand their acid blood.

He will be beaten up, surely, but their main methods of killing their prey (punch through the skull with their tongue, impaled by tail) won't work on Wolverine, and Wolverine can easily kill them.

They are strong enough to KO him tho

I think the fact that he engages in melee and their acid can eat thru flesh like lava thru butter makes me think that Wolverine might pass out from the pain before he manages to kill em all.

Movie Wolverine has never shown the ability to beat 30 xenomorph level characters at once. hell, 6 or 7 would probably be more than enough.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think the fact that he engages in melee and their acid can eat thru flesh like lava thru butter makes me think that Wolverine might pass out from the pain before he manages to kill em all.

Heals kinda fast

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think the fact that he engages in melee and their acid can eat thru flesh like lava thru butter makes me think that Wolverine might pass out from the pain before he manages to kill em all. I doubt he'd pass out from pain.

Their strong enough to lift a Predator up and hold it in the air and toss it quite a distance with ease. They can KO Logan

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think the fact that he engages in melee and their acid can eat thru flesh like lava thru butter makes me think that Wolverine might pass out from the pain before he manages to kill em all. Originally posted by Silent Master
Movie Wolverine has never shown the ability to beat 30 xenomorph level characters at once. hell, 6 or 7 would probably be more than enough. These statements seem pretty accurate to me. Even if he doesn't pass out from the pain, having muscle tissue continually dissolved could incapacitate him*... provided the xenos keep it up. Otherwise, at some point, Logan heals good as new and finishes what he started.



*could they do a better job than Jean Phoenix tried to do?

Originally posted by NemeBro
I'm thinking Wolverine tbh, if you believe his claws can withstand their acid blood.

He will be beaten up, surely, but their main methods of killing their prey (punch through the skull with their tongue, impaled by tail) won't work on Wolverine, and Wolverine can easily kill them.

Agreed, Preds had certain weapons that withstood their blood so the adamentium should as well.

The KO is the problem he faces.

Originally posted by juggerman
Their strong enough to lift a Predator up and hold it in the air and toss it quite a distance with ease. They can KO Logan Juggs didn't ko Wolverine, neither did Gambit.

He has some low showings, but he's usually hard to ko.
Originally posted by Mindship
These statements seem pretty accurate to me. Even if he doesn't pass out from the pain, having muscle tissue continually dissolved could incapacitate him*... provided the xenos keep it up. Otherwise, at some point, Logan heals good as new and finishes what he started.



*could they do a better job than Jean Phoenix tried to do? Phoenix did that, he was fine.

Originally posted by Mindset
Phoenix did that, he was fine. Yeah, the more I think about this, the more I see the xenos -- at first, through sheer strength and numbers -- putting Logan down. But they'd have to actively keep him down, otherwise Logan renews, kills a few more, and eventually wins through attrition. This is what makes him so freakin dangerous: the guy Doesn't. Stay. Down.

In the long run, I do think Wolverine will eventually win. He'll just keep getting back up when Xenos have left him for dead.

Under KMC rules though, there's a good chance he gets KO'd or passes out from sheer exhaustion.

He didn't pass out from Phoenix rapidly disintegrating his flesh. The idea that pain could knock him out doesn't seem likely.

Furthermore, though it's been a while since I've seen the films, I think Wolverine is probably faster than the xenos, no?

If Vasquez could not only defeat a xenomorph in close-combat, but kill it, then Logan would tear these dudes a new *******.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He didn't pass out from Phoenix rapidly disintegrating his flesh. The idea that pain could knock him out doesn't seem likely.

Furthermore, though it's been a while since I've seen the films, I think Wolverine is probably faster than the xenos, no?

Yeah but Phoenix wasn't pummeling Logan with xenos-level strength either. Logan has shown susceptible to KO from blunt trauma attacks.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah but Phoenix wasn't pummeling Logan with xenos-level strength either. Logan has shown susceptible to KO from blunt trauma attacks. He has also shown to be blown through concrete walls and get up to keep fighting.

Like I said, more times than not, he has shown to be hard ko.

Nah, I think he has equal high and low showings. He's been hurt and put down with blunt trauma attacks about as often as he's shrugged them off.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Nah, I think he has equal high and low showings. He's been hurt and put down with blunt trauma attacks about as often as he's shrugged them off. He has only been ko'd 2 times from blunt force that I can remember.

3 times

Originally posted by juggerman
3 times What were the 3 times?

Anyway, shows he has good durability considering what he has tanked.

The acid will keep eating at his flesh even if he keeps healing.

Xenos will overwhelm him, a few slices from his claws and he will be drenched in acid.

Wolverine was nearly completely incapacitated from Deathstrike's claws. Although, he does have a feat in The Wolverine that offsets this. But on average, a few stingers through his back and abdomen, plus acid, and he won't be doing anything.

Originally posted by Mindset
What were the 3 times?

Anyway, shows he has good durability considering what he has tanked.

He is probably counting the adamantium bullet.

Edit: I just rewatched a scene in The Last Stand. Looks like Phoenix KO's logan by slamming him into a wall in the medical room.

So that's 3 or 4 times depending on if you accept the adamantium bullet.

Originally posted by Mindset
He has only been ko'd 2 times from blunt force that I can remember.

He has been ko'd by bullets twice, was stunned for a decent amount of time when he wrecked his truck and once he got up was ko'd by Creed hitting him with a log.

There might be other examples, but it's been awhile since I watched the movies.

Originally posted by Mindset
He has only been ko'd 2 times from blunt force that I can remember.

We could probably consider his first fight with Creed in Origins as TKO since he was unable to continue the fight.

Originally posted by Placidity
The acid will keep eating at his flesh even if he keeps healing.

Xenos will overwhelm him, a few slices from his claws and he will be drenched in acid.

Wolverine was nearly completely incapacitated from Deathstrike's claws. Although, he does have a feat in The Wolverine that offsets this. But on average, a few stingers through his back and abdomen, plus acid, and he won't be doing anything. Wolverine was never nearly incapacitated against Deathstrike.

Originally posted by FrothByte
We could probably consider his first fight with Creed in Origins as TKO since he was unable to continue the fight. You mean when he didn't have adamantium?

Well, the way I imagine it (and, admittedly, I'm not really certain either way) is that when Wolverine is hit by acid, the acid will melt his flesh just about as fast as he can heal it. He heals just as the acid eats his flesh over and over.

So, basically, I see it like this:
-acid splashes on his skin.
1) acid eats his skin/muscle/flesh like butter. Much pain.
2)his skin/muscle/flesh heals.
3) as the acid still has potency left, it continues to eat the healed skin/muscle/flesh.
4) his skin keeps healing, acid keeps dissolving.
5) back to 1)

Making each splash an agonizing cycle of near-perma uber acid burn.

That would hurt. With enough splashes, prolly hurt much more than the having burning metal grafted to your bones (which easily KO'd him for a short while anyway).

But that's just my opinion. Not really 100% behind it, tho.

Originally posted by Mindset
Not sure why you're acting like a shitstain, but anyway

I'm sure you'll work it out. There haven't been many exchanges in this thread.


Originally posted by Mindset

They would actually have to knock him out to win.

That is still being debated. Permanent incapacitation still counts as a win as far as I know. Will see what Impediment says.

Originally posted by Placidity
I'm sure you'll work it out. There haven't been many exchanges in this thread.




That is still being debated. Permanent incapacitation still counts as a win as far as I know. Will see what Impediment says. There haven't been any insults thrown around, you're just acting like an idiot.

Yea, but like I said, I don't see it happening. Deathstrike was stronger than Wolverine and had the benefit of an adamantium skeleton, so he couldn't just cut her arms off.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He didn't pass out from Phoenix rapidly disintegrating his flesh. The idea that pain could knock him out doesn't seem likely.

Furthermore, though it's been a while since I've seen the films, I think Wolverine is probably faster than the xenos, no?

Well Deadpool is a bullet timer and Wolverine's more or less on his level physically so....

I hope you're not trying to say that Wolverine is a bullet timer.

Originally posted by Mindset
What were the 3 times?

Anyway, shows he has good durability considering what he has tanked.

More than 3 by my count now.

1. X-1 Sabretooth via log
2. X-2 Cop via bullet
3. X-3 Phoenix via TK
4. X-3 Magneto via magnetic toss thru the woods
5. X-O Sabretooth via truck

5 is iffy since no metal bones, but you can't ignore that Creed KO'd him with the tree and he was out for the entire rest of the fight, the save Cyclops made, the load up for the ride home, the actual ride home, the unload, the trip from the plane to the medical room, and a small part of Jean's assessment of his condition, all with his metal insides.

Originally posted by Mindset
There haven't been any insults thrown around, you're just acting like an idiot.

I never said there was an explicit "insult". But there certainly is now

All justified.

You did call him a homosexual. Tho, some don't consider that an insult while others do.

Mindset isn't a homosexual tho.

He's more of a Biastophiliac.

Originally posted by juggerman
More than 3 by my count now.

1. X-1 Sabretooth via log
2. X-2 Cop via bullet
3. X-3 Phoenix via TK
4. X-3 Magneto via magnetic toss thru the woods
5. X-O Sabretooth via truck

5 is iffy since no metal bones, but you can't ignore that Creed KO'd him with the tree and he was out for the entire rest of the fight, the save Cyclops made, the load up for the ride home, the actual ride home, the unload, the trip from the plane to the medical room, and a small part of Jean's assessment of his condition, all with his metal insides. Everything on that list except maybe the bullet is stronger than a Xeno, to be fair.

Also, it is indeed true that Deadpool was a bullet-timer, and Wolverine could fight him. He's probably considerably faster than the Xenos, to be honest.

Originally posted by Mindset
He has only been ko'd 2 times from blunt force that I can remember.

2 or 3.... But when he's out he stays out for at least a couple of minutes.

When Sabretooth knocked him out he didn't wake up until he was transported from Canada to Xavier's home

Originally posted by Silent Master
I hope you're not trying to say that Wolverine is a bullet timer.

And I wouldn't because....

Using non-modified Wade's speed feats to claim that Wolverine is a bullet timer is problematic because, by that logic, Mystique, Jugs, Creed, Gambit, Deathstrike etc. are all bullet timers as well, because all those people are at least his equal in speed. The guy with the throwing spikes in X3 was virtually Logan's exact equal in speed (they stab each other at the same time, but Logan heals). Can we call him a bullet timer because he was close in speed with someone who kept up with Barakapool? Shingen is a regular, un-enhanced human, and he had no problems keeping up with Logan when they fought. In fact, he landed a number of hits that Logan simply tanked. Does that make Shingen a bullet timer as well?

Wade never shows the same level of speed after the Weapon X transformation, so Logan barely keeping up with a mind-controlled Deadpool does not make him a bullet timer.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
And I wouldn't because....

Because Wolverine never showed anywhere near that level of speed.

Wolverine stomps.

Originally posted by Scoobless
2 or 3.... But when he's out he stays out for at least a couple of minutes.

When Sabretooth knocked him out he didn't wake up until he was transported from Canada to Xavier's home That was an outlier, he has never been out that long from that little damage again. He has even taken similar attacks and not even been ko'd and 4 or 5 times.

Anyway, I'm not saying he can't be knocked out, but he has feats that show that it's hard to accomplish.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Because Wolverine never showed anywhere near that level of speed.

Except for being able to fight beings on that level, yeah, totally not rite?

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Except for being able to fight beings on that level, yeah, totally not rite?

Wolverine never fought anyone that was operating at bullet-time.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Wolverine never fought anyone that was operating at bullet-time.

Well if you ignore the scene in Origins where Deadpool deflects machine gun fire with his blades then, sure

By all means, show us Deadpool using that level of speed in his fight with Wolverine.

wolverine was shot in the head in X-Men 3 and tat put him down for a while. whilst logan would eventually kill all the xeno's it would take alot of time he would go through so much pain and dismemberment and flesh melting acid... i see him going insane and breaking down by the end of it

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
wolverine was shot in the head in X-Men 3 and tat put him down for a while. whilst logan would eventually kill all the xeno's it would take alot of time he would go through so much pain and dismemberment and flesh melting acid... i see him going insane and breaking down by the end of it That was X2.

He can't be dismembered.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Except for being able to fight beings on that level, yeah, totally not rite?


Wolverine obviously had trouble with Barakspool's speed. It's not like he was landing blow per blow. Plus Creed helped him out.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Wolverine obviously had trouble with Barakspool's speed. It's not like he was landing blow per blow. Plus Creed helped him out.

Teleportation was the big issue for Wolverine IIRC



Ah yes the last ditch downplayers tactic "oh yeah, well.... uh.... prove he was going that fast!"

Seriously, it's not like Deadpool was holding back at any point against Wolverine, or Deadpool was far above Wolverine before he was modified

Originally posted by Silent Master
By all means, show us Deadpool using that level of speed in his fight with Wolverine.

Going by that logic, Superman fights as fast as a normal man and blasters from star was are slow as hell.

Except that Wade was shown to be much faster than Wolverine before he became Deadpool, as for after the surgery, he was being mindcontrolled and didn't show anywhere near bullet-time level speed while fighting Wolverine.

If you want to claim that Wolverine is a bullet-timer, post the feats.

Bullets are made of metal.

Wolverine is made of metal.

Wolverine is as fast as bullets.

Originally posted by Silent Master
mindcontrolled

didn't show anywhere near bullet-time level speed while fighting Wolverine.



"Kill"

All they did was put simple commands into his head. Nothing else. Deadpool still had FULL control over his body and was moving on his own after the command.

There were no bullets in that fight.

Going by your logic, Superman fights as fast as Wolverine

GG

Originally posted by Silent Master
Except that Wade was shown to be much faster than Wolverine before he became Deadpool, as for after the surgery, he was being mindcontrolled and didn't show anywhere near bullet-time level speed while fighting Wolverine.

Yeah you obviously don't know how to powerscale, full stop

By this set of logic Cell vs Goku was much faster than Mystic Gohan vs Super Buu or Sensui's attacks are far more powerful than Raizen's or Lion El Jonson's attacks are more powerful than the God Emperor because they appeared more flashy. Or most characters in fiction aren't even Mach 1 because we can see them move despite having feats well above that

Powerscaling>stylistic portrayal



Being able to fight Deadpool without getting outright speedblitzed and being on his level before he was modified :zaru

Bottom line is that you have no proof that Deadpool was using bullet-time level speed in the Wolverine fight. Plus Wolverine has been in 6 movies now and has never shown bullet-time speed himself, he has in fact been hit by bullets and people with normal speed multiple times.

So even if we were to grant him BT level speed in that scene(which we don't) it would fall under PIS and thus be unusable for debates.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Bottom line is that you have no proof that Deadpool was using bullet-time level speed in the Wolverine fight.

Plus Wolverine has been in 6 movies now and has never shown bullet-time speed himself, he has in fact been hit by bullets and people with normal speed multiple times.

So even if we were to grant him BT level speed in that scene(which we don't) it would fall under PIS and thus be unusable for debates.

I guess Superman and spiderman fight as fast as normal people.

Superman has been tagged by bullets as well. Is he below bullet speed now?

Yet you spam the log and bullet scenes even though he has feats above those as well.

And again going by your logic, Wolverine fights as fast as spiderman and Superman.

GG

Originally posted by Silent Master
Bottom line is that you have no proof that Deadpool was using bullet-time level speed in the Wolverine fight.

So according to you Deadpool was holding back then?

Lack of flashy visuals isn't a valid argument, unless according to you Agent Smith and Neo only fight at peak human speeds because we don't see any flashy visual effects, despite casual bullet timing, or Saint Seiya characters are slow because we can see them fight despite 18 digit times FTL feats, or Bleach is the fastest fiction ever because we can't see anything when they fight, even though they have no quantifiable speed feats above Mach 30.

Only feats matter and it'd be far from a first for a tier of characters from a verse are scaled to a single feat

Not every single speed feat has to be them zipping around with anime style speed lines and performing super crazy speed tricks like they're the god damn Flash, you know



Alot of fast characters have been hit with far slower things, this is far from any kind of justification

And yeah, this would be far from the first time where a few (or even a single) feats were considered definitive of a character/verse capability, why does X-Men have to recieve more scrutiny



"I don't like it so I'll arbitarily dismiss it as PIS"

Yeah, you don't get to do that

Nothing you've said changes the fact that the bottom line is that you have no proof that Deadpool was using bullet-time level speed in the Wolverine fight. Plus Wolverine has been in 6 movies now and has never shown bullet-time speed himself, he has in fact been hit by bullets and people with normal speed multiple times.

So even if we were to grant him BT level speed in that scene(which we don't) it would fall under PIS and thus be unusable for debates.

I love it how people assume that because characters don't zip around with flashy blurs and speed lines and perform super crazy speed tricks in one panel like they're the ****ing Flash that they can just ignore speed feats and powerscaling all day erry day

Originally posted by Silent Master
Nothing you've said changes the fact that the bottom line is that you have no proof that Deadpool was using bullet-time level speed in the Wolverine fight. Plus Wolverine has been in 6 movies now and has never shown bullet-time speed himself, he has in fact been hit by bullets and people with normal speed multiple times.

So even if we were to grant him BT level speed in that scene(which we don't) it would fall under PIS and thus be unusable for debates.

A FTL Pegasus Seiya got tagged by a mach 18 enemy. Goku apparently is slower than Chi Chi. Comic Superman is now a bullet timer because of getting tagged by street level characters. Movie superman and spiderman fight just as fast as regular humans.

Shit >>>>>>> Your logic.

I love how people assume that characters that been in 6 movies and have zero scenes of fighting at bullet-time speeds suddenly have bullet-time speed because they fought someone that has a BT feat, even though the fight itself shows no BT speed being used.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I love how people assume that characters that been in 6 movies and have zero scenes of fighting at bullet-time speeds suddenly have bullet-time speed because they fought someone that has a BT feat, even though the fight itself shows no BT speed being used.

Again, by that logic you are admitting superman can only fight as fast as a human.

The fact is that Wolverine has zero feasts of fighting at BT level speeds. thus he isn't a bullet-timer.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Nothing you've said changes the fact that the bottom line is that you have no proof that Deadpool was using bullet-time level speed in the Wolverine fight. Plus Wolverine has been in 6 movies now and has never shown bullet-time speed himself, he has in fact been hit by bullets and people with normal speed multiple times.

Pretty much what I figured "I don't like it so I'll just stonewall and deny powerscaling and say the same shite ad nauseum"

Yeah and Goku's never busted a planet himself despite beating Freiza who has done so twice, by your logic Goku can't planet bust

The only reason for powerscaling not being valid is if Deadpool had a specific technique for bullet timing which nobody else had, however since this isn't statetd anywhere in verse, we have no reason to assume such a thing



Again, you don't get to shunt feats aside as PIS because they don't suit your preconceptions

Originally posted by Silent Master
The fact is that Wolverine has zero feasts of fighting at BT level speeds. thus he isn't a bullet-timer.

Go ahead and post superman dodging bullets during a battle then

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Pretty much what I figured "I don't like it so I'll just stonewall and deny powerscaling and say the same shite ad nauseum"

Yeah and Goku's never busted a planet himself despite beating Freiza who has done so twice, by your logic Goku can't planet bust

The only reason for powerscaling not being valid is if Deadpool had a specific technique for bullet timing which nobody else had, however since this isn't statetd anywhere in verse, we have no reason to assume such a thing



Again, you don't get to shunt feats aside as PIS because they don't suit your preconceptions

Originally posted by Silent Master
The fact is that Wolverine has zero feasts of fighting at BT level speeds. thus he isn't a bullet-timer.

Originally posted by Werewolf582
A FTL Pegasus Seiya got tagged by a mach 18 enemy. Goku apparently is slower than Chi Chi. Comic Superman is now a bullet timer because of getting tagged by street level characters. Movie superman and spiderman fight just as fast as regular humans.

Shit >>>>>>> Your logic.

Exactly what I thought, same old stonewalling and "I don't like it so it never happened" argumentum ad nauseum

The fact is that Wolverine has been in 6 movies and has zero feats of fighting at BT level speeds. thus he isn't a bullet-timer.

Originally posted by StealthRanger

Yeah and Goku's never busted a planet himself despite beating Freiza who has done so twice, by your logic Goku can't planet bust



3 times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsGkECJpr1s

13:39

Originally posted by Werewolf582
A FTL Pegasus Seiya got tagged by a mach 18 enemy. Goku apparently is slower than Chi Chi. Comic Superman is now a bullet timer because of getting tagged by street level characters. Movie superman and spiderman fight just as fast as regular humans.

Shit >>>>>>> Your logic.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The fact is that Wolverine has been in 6 movies and has zero feats of fighting at BT level speeds. thus he isn't a bullet-timer.

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Again, by that logic you are admitting superman can only fight as fast as a human.

Unlike the characters you keep mentioning, Wolverine has been in 6 movies and has zero feats of BT level speed.

So number of movies equals proof now? Lol, you sure are grasping for straws.

Yeah and Dragon Ball has only had 2 parts and only 2 feats of planet busting from 2 characters, YYH has had 4 chapters and only 2 feats of mountain busting from 2 characters, yet we powerscale most characters of note to the character who performed said feat

Warhammer has had dozens of novels and games, and a dozen assorted massively hypersonic speed feats and mountain busting/above physical DC feats spread out across the series, yet most of the high tiers (like upper tier Greater Daemons and Primarchs) are scaled to this level

Powerscaling applies to several verses off the top feats which only happen a few times throughout the series (hell, even once sometimes), why is X-Men in such a position where it should be treated differently?

You have no valid point, your only argument relies on lack of flashy speed lines and blurs and camera effects and "didn't do it every single time he ever appeared so it doesn't count", which isn't valid, at all

Originally posted by Silent Master
Unlike the characters you keep mentioning, Wolverine has been in 6 movies and has zero feats of BT level speed.

Length of the series has nothing to do with validity of feats, just thought I'd say that

No really, it's not an exclusive rule to long runners so, why mention it?

Nothing you have said changes the fact that Wolverine has zero feats of BT level speed.

And no amount of stonewalling will make powerscaling any less of a thing

Originally posted by Silent Master
Nothing you have said changes the fact that Wolverine has zero feats of BT level speed.

So superman can only fight as fast as a human then?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Nothing you have said changes the fact that Wolverine has zero feats of BT level speed.

Originally posted by Werewolf582
So superman can only fight as fast as a human then?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Nothing you have said changes the fact that Wolverine has zero feats of BT level speed.

Originally posted by Werewolf582

Originally posted by Silent Master
Nothing you have said changes the fact that Wolverine has zero feats of BT level speed.

So superman can only fight as fast as a human then?

Repeating yourself doesn't change the fact that this board judges a character's abilities on their feats and Wolverine has zero feats of fighting at bullet time speeds.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Repeating yourself

Irony

The difference is that I'm repeating myself because you refuse to admit reality, which is that Wolverine has zero feats of fighting at BT level speeds.

Whereas you're repeating yourself because you don't want to admit that your entire argument is nothing but baseless speculation.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The difference is that I'm repeating myself because you refuse to admit reality, which is that Wolverine has zero feats of fighting at BT level speeds.

Whereas you're repeating yourself because you don't want to admit that your entire argument is nothing but baseless speculation.

I never once said Wolverine was supersonic or anything higher.

I simply called you out on your bullshit logic that you keep trying to use

You need to keep your butthurt focused at the guy who rustled you jimmies and not me.

"My logic" is going by what is in the movie.

Originally posted by Silent Master
"My logic" is going by what is in the movie.

Your logic is that since there were no bullets in the Wolverine vs DP, then that means DP is not bullet timing.

By your logic, Superman isn't a bullet timer and neither is Spiderman or most Jedi. They have bullet timing feats, but since they don't do it in every fight there in they don't have it at that point. That's your logic. Well, that and lowballing

And your own logic is biting you in the ass and its getting painful to watch

This is getting way out of hand. Wolverine doesn't have BT speed or reflexes. End of debate. He has never once demonstrated super speed. He has been repeatedly hit by enemies that have no super speed. I don't know why this is even being debated. Only an idiot would claim that Wolverine has super speed. It is not part of his powerset. Let it go.

Originally posted by FrothByte
This is getting way out of hand. Wolverine doesn't have BT speed or reflexes.

Stealthranger is the only one who claimed that. Don't try to put word in my mouth.

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Your logic is that since there were no bullets in the Wolverine vs DP, then that means DP is not bullet timing.

By your logic, Superman isn't a bullet timer and neither is Spiderman or most Jedi. They have bullet timing feats, but since they don't do it in every fight there in they don't have it at that point. That's your logic. Well, that and lowballing

And your own logic is biting you in the ass and its getting painful to watch

That isn't my logic at all, it's says an awful lot about your side that you have to blatantly lie about my stance.

My logic is two-fold 1) that the scene showed no evidence of superspeed, thus no superspeed was used and 2) Wolverine has zero feats of fighting at BT speeds, thus he doesn't have BT level speed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
That isn't my logic at all, it's says an awful lot about your side that you have to blatantly lie about my stance.

My logic is two-fold 1) that the scene showed no evidence of superspeed, thus no superspeed was used and 2) Wolverine has zero feats of fighting at BT speeds, thus he doesn't have BT level speed.

Then your logic is "I can see them" therefore an even dumber accusation.

We saw no superspeed punches when superman fought people. We saw no superspeed punches when spiderman fought Lizard. Therefore, you are saying they don't have superspeed reactions.

Never said he did, so again, I'm just calling you out on your bullshit logic

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Then your logic is "I can see them" therefore an even dumber accusation.

We saw no superspeed punches when superman fought people. We saw no superspeed punches when spiderman fought Lizard. Therefore, you are saying they don't have superspeed reactions.

Never said he did, so again, I'm just calling you out on your bullshit logic

Again, that isn't my stance all, if it was I'd be saying that Wade wasn't bullet-timing in the beginning of the movie since we can clearly see him.

Speaking of Wade's BT scene, even if you remove the bullets from it, you'd still have proof that he was faster than normal since he was moving the blades so fast that they were leaving after-images. in the Wolverine fight there is zero evidence to support that he was moving faster than normal.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, that isn't my stance all, if it was I'd be saying that Wade wasn't bullet-timing in the beginning of the movie since we can clearly see him.

Speaking of Wade's BT scene, even if you remove the bullets from it, you'd still have proof that he was faster than normal since he was moving the blades so fast that they were leaving after-images. in the Wolverine fight there is zero evidence to support that he was moving faster than normal.

But we see bullets flying. So trying to get around what my point was is not going to help you.

I can move my hand or foot fast enough to where it could be a blur too. Guess I'm a bullet timer.

Guy at the idea table: Hey guys, lets make the final battle so fast that no one can see what the hell is going on and make every single attack blurry as shit

Movie creators:...............................Is this guy an idiot?

Originally posted by Werewolf582
But we see bullets flying. So trying to get around what my point was is not going to help you.

I can move my hand or foot fast enough to where it could be a blur too. Guess I'm a bullet timer.

Guy at the idea table: Hey guys, lets make the final battle so fast that no one can see what the hell is going on and make every single attack blurry as shit

Movie creators:...............................Is this guy an idiot?

I didn't say that the swords leaving after images was proof that he was bullet-timing, I said that it was proof that he was moving faster than normal. him blocking the bullets and cutting one in half is what shows us how much faster than normal he is moving.

The Wolverine fight has zero evidence that anybody was moving faster than normal.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I didn't say that the swords leaving after images was proof that he was bullet-timing, I said that it was proof that he was moving faster than normal. him blocking the bullets and cutting one in half is what shows us how much faster than normal he is moving.

The Wolverine fight has zero evidence that anybody was moving faster than normal.

Making after images and blurs isn't that fast since almost anyone can do it. You said without the bullets, now you are going back to the bullets.

Superman and spiderman didn't show any blurs or afterimages in their fights. Are you claiming that they are human speed as well?

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Making after images and blurs isn't that fast since almost anyone can do it. You said without the bullets, now you are going back to the bullets.

Superman and spiderman didn't show any blurs or afterimages in their fights. Are you claiming that they are human speed as well?

Then post feats of people leaving after images with swords.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmeNOX_oEZ4

Guys with heavier weapons and not going full out can make blurs and slight after images

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Stealthranger is the only one who claimed that. Don't try to put word in my mouth.

Then what seems to be the problem here? If we can all agree that Wolverine doesn't have BT speed then what's this ongoing debate for?

That isn't even close to after image effect Wade was causing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiibN8EmIxE

Originally posted by FrothByte
Then what seems to be the problem here? If we can all agree that Wolverine doesn't have BT speed then what's this ongoing debate for?


He's misrepresenting my stance and then saying that my logic is faulty as that would mean guys that actually have speed feats(unlike Logan)don't have superspeed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
That isn't even close to after image effect Wade was causing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiibN8EmIxE


Now your trying to cirlce around.

You asked for people causing blurs and after images, I gave you one with people using heavier weapons AND holding back.

And now your trying to ask for someone doing it on DPs level. Lol, you just make this to easy.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Then what seems to be the problem here? If we can all agree that Wolverine doesn't have BT speed then what's this ongoing debate for?

Sm has logic that I disagree with.

If you had read what was going on before posting, you wouldn't have made yourself look bad.

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Now your trying to cirlce around.

You asked for people causing blurs and after images, I gave you one with people using heavier weapons AND holding back.

And now your trying to ask for someone doing it on DPs level. Lol, you just make this to easy.

Considering we were talking about Wade's feat, it should have been obvious that I was asking for something on his level.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Considering we were talking about Wade's feat, it should have been obvious that I was asking for something on his level.

And i gave you people holding back and using heavier weapons. Did they accomplish exactly what Wade did? I admit no. But the fact doesn't change that they were using heavier weapons and holding back. Wade used lighter weapons and went all out.

Context is key.

You asked for people making blurs and after images, and I gave them to you. Now you are trying to get around it and ask for Wades shit. I'll look for a video tomorrow cause I'm really tired.

The feat you posted doesn't even come close to matching Wade's feat, but go ahead and continue to wrongly think you actually proved something.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I'm thinking Wolverine tbh, if you believe his claws can withstand their acid blood.

He will be beaten up, surely, but their main methods of killing their prey (punch through the skull with their tongue, impaled by tail) won't work on Wolverine, and Wolverine can easily kill them. Wolverine. Adamantium>>>>>Acid blood.

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Sm has logic that I disagree with.

If you had read what was going on before posting, you wouldn't have made yourself look bad.

How exactly did I look bad? My post wasn't even directed at you. Don't know why you're getting all uppity. My original post was that whoever thinks Wolverine has super speed is stupid. Whether you feel like this refers to you or not is your own decision.

SM never made any claims about Supes or Spiderman, so Werewolf trying to make out as though he is suggesting that they fight at human levels is a joke. Even more so, considering latest movie Supes dodges out of the way of the barrage of bullets in the Smallville fight in MoS (as well as keeping up with people who are shown to easily blitz humans or create sonic booms while fighting him), and Garfield Spidey has a feat in ASM1 where he casually dodges 4 bullets at point blank range, while talking trash, as well as his numerous other super reaction feats throughout the films. And that is just taking the latest versions of those 2.

And LOL at people waving stuff around quickly == Wade's feats. When a regular person can start turning after a round is fired at their back, yet is still fast enough to complete the turn and slice it in half, then they can compare to pre-upgrade Wade.

I mean really, use some common sense here. Logan has never once in any of the films displayed anything remotely close to bullet timer speed. The other people Werewolf is trying to compare him to have plenty of feats that make it obvious they operate above normal human speeds.

Basically, Werewolf82 is trying to argue that characters with known super speed and tons of feats to back it up, who occasionally have lower showings, is the same thing as a character with zero speed feats across 6 films and 1 fight against someone who performed a bullet timing feat under vastly different circumstances, at another time.

Wolverine has been incapacitated many times throughout the X-Men film franchise.

The one I remember best, that made me facepalm, was in X-Men 2 when Logan got shot in the forehead by the cops at Bobby's house. One little bullet knocked Logan out for the duration of Pyro's attack on the cops.

I'm sure that 30 Xenomorphs could overwhelm Wolverine via a bum rush assault using their acid blood and spear tails. Yeah, Wolvie could regenerate muscle mass lost from the acid blood of the Xenos, but for how long?

If DnD is anything to go by, acid > regen

The quality of debate in this thread is a joke.

I blame Mindset.

Originally posted by FrothByte
This is getting way out of hand. Wolverine doesn't have BT speed or reflexes. End of debate. He has never once demonstrated super speed.

Mhm, because fighting characters who have legit speed feats and not getting outright speedblitzed don't count, fascinating



So have many characters that have super speed in fiction, this by no means a justification (well either that or they're simply that fast as well)

Beside the point, it's been years since I've watched X-Men

What exactly makes low end showings in X-Men any different than low end showings in any other series that just get shunted aside and ignored?



Yeah and Superman isn't super fast based on the same horseshit used by DBZtards of "they don't leave afterimages so they're not fast" argument from artistic style tripe, rite?



ahahaha gotta love this, it's not going by feats, just same MovieCodec/CBR shite used to downplay characters they don't like (like Thor and Magneto) "oh it doesn't matter if they have performed those feats, they're not put the handbooks as part of their powerset so they don't count!"



Yeah because Deadpool was holding back and super speed is a technique specific to him

Seriously, most fights unless there's a narration saying shit like "they moved several times the speed of sound" or "he hit x character in a microsecond" or "hit 1000 times in a millisecond", there's no indicator of how fast a fight is going, so you can't take any random fight (say between a character with a quantifiably hypersonic feat and a character on his tier who has no quantifiable speed feats beyond fighting characters on that level) and just say "but that doesn't "look" hypersonic to me so it can't be!", else we could do the same for any fictional universe ever, denying powerscaling would also be crippling for a lot of verses

Which is why most boards tend to judge characters by higher end feats of speed that can be quantified and powerscaling of several characters to that, over how fast and flashy something "looked" (and as opposed to going with every teensy tiny "feat" ever, which we'd get dog piss characters across fiction)



Yeah, unless such circumstances (ie: battleground that made them more powerful than usual, for example) are stated, they don't exist. No seriously, do you believe Wade somehow got slower when he was upgraded or that he could blitz everybody else in his party pre-upgrade? Or that his speed feat was due to some technique only he had? He's not Quicksilver so there's no reason to believe that

Just for some perspective, Bleach went on for most of the decade before it got a quantifiably hypersonic speed feat, most characters got scaled to it because of fighting the character with the speed feat on reasonable grounds

Took them 580 chapters to get it's second



For example, Cell vs Goku had more flashy speed indicators than Buu vs Gohan, but none of us would claim CS Goku and Cell were much faster than Buu and BS Gohan, despite massive increases in power since the Cell Saga

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
SM never made any claims about Supes or Spiderman, so Werewolf trying to make out as though he is suggesting that they fight at human levels is a joke. Even more so, considering latest movie Supes dodges out of the way of the barrage of bullets in the Smallville fight in MoS (as well as keeping up with people who are shown to easily blitz humans or create sonic booms while fighting him), and Garfield Spidey has a feat in ASM1 where he casually dodges 4 bullets at point blank range, while talking trash, as well as his numerous other super reaction feats throughout the films. And that is just taking the latest versions of those 2.

And LOL at people waving stuff around quickly == Wade's feats. When a regular person can start turning after a round is fired at their back, yet is still fast enough to complete the turn and slice it in half, then they can compare to pre-upgrade Wade.

I mean really, use some common sense here. Logan has never once in any of the films displayed anything remotely close to bullet timer speed. The other people Werewolf is trying to compare him to have plenty of feats that make it obvious they operate above normal human speeds.

Basically, Werewolf82 is trying to argue that characters with known super speed and tons of feats to back it up, who occasionally have lower showings, is the same thing as a character with zero speed feats across 6 films and 1 fight against someone who performed a bullet timing feat under vastly different circumstances, at another time.

Exactly.

Ok, so according to Stealth Ranger we might as well rename the X-men movieverse to the bullet-timerverse. Because if Wolverine is a bullet timer now, anyone who is of comparable speed to Logan must be as well, and there are several characters who are as fast, or faster, than him. So Gambit, Beast, Shingen, Juggs, Creed, Mystique, Deathstrike, Storm (she moves at comparable speeds to Logan when they fight Callisto and Juggs), and that random clown with the arm spikes from X3 are all bullet timers, just to name some. As long as we follow Stealth Ranger's logic, that is.

Ah yeah, so resorts to snide passive aggressive condescension and increulity eh? Well yeah it'd be far from the first time a verse was scaled to a single feat, you know, and crazier things have been accepted so, I don't see the problem, but hey, precious public preconceptions are more important then feats you know

Will say though the whole "tons of feats" and "plenty of feats" things you said are pretty damn cute, considering that alot of the top quantifiable speed feats for several verses only happen about once or twice, maybe between six and a dozen times for longer running verses, and are strewn throughout fictional verses.

Outside of that we're left with a massively overwhelming majority of what would be at best low end superhuman garbage and speed tropes (like speed lines, blurs and afterimages), again, if you were to take every teensy tiny "feat" in fiction you'd end up with low end superhuman garbage at best. Hence why most boards tend to take the standout showings and utilize powerscaling

Again, is Deadpool's super speed a technique specific to him, or did he just get slower post-modification because, potatoes according to you?

**** it, accidental quote

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Ok, so according to Stealth Ranger we might as well rename the X-men movieverse to the bullet-timerverse. Because if Wolverine is a bullet timer now, anyone who is of comparable speed to Logan must be as well, and there are several characters who are as fast, or faster, than him. So Gambit, Beast, Shingen, Juggs, Creed, Mystique, Deathstrike, Storm (she moves at comparable speeds to Logan when they fight Callisto and Juggs), and that random clown with the arm spikes from X3 are all bullet timers, just to name some. As long as we follow Stealth Ranger's logic, that is.

True, according to him, Wolverine is a bullet-timer because he fought Deadpool, well so did Sabretooth so that means he is also a bullet-timer.

Now following his logic everyone that has fought either Logan or Creed are now BT'ers and so is everyone that they fought etc etc etc.

Originally posted by FrothByte
whoever thinks Wolverine has super speed is stupid.

That about covers it

Originally posted by Silent Master
True, according to him, Wolverine is a bullet-timer because he fought Deadpool, well so did Sabretooth so that means he is also a bullet-timer.

Now following his logic everyone that has fought either Logan or Creed are now BT'ers and so is everyone that they fought etc etc etc.

Guess Blob is now a speedster as well. Imagine that. As well as that random cage fighter Wolverine fights in the beginning of X1.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Guess Blob is now a speedster as well. Imagine that. As well as that random cage fighter Wolverine fights in the beginning of X1.

I wonder if he applies the same logic to strength, because if he does, then he believes that Batroc is Hulk level in strength.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Ah yeah, so resorts to snide passive aggressive condescension and increulity eh? Well yeah it'd be far from the first time a verse was scaled to a single feat, you know, and crazier things have been accepted so, I don't see the problem, but hey, precious public preconceptions are more important then feats you know

Will say though the whole "tons of feats" and "plenty of feats" things you said are pretty damn cute, considering that alot of the top quantifiable speed feats for several verses only happen about once or twice, maybe between six and a dozen times for longer running verses, and are strewn throughout fictional verses.

Outside of that we're left with a massively overwhelming majority of what would be at best low end superhuman garbage and speed tropes (like speed lines, blurs and afterimages), again, if you were to take every teensy tiny "feat" in fiction you'd end up with low end superhuman garbage at best. Hence why most boards tend to take the standout showings and utilize powerscaling

Again, is Deadpool's super speed a technique specific to him, or did he just get slower post-modification because, potatoes according to you?

So did you not read my post properly? I specifically took MoS and Garfield Spiderman, because Supes and Spidey got brought up. I never talked about any other characters. If you got "low end superhuman garbage" from their consistent feats throughout those 3 films, then you need your eyes checked.

I am all for defending people who actually have superspeed. I have had the MoS Supes has superspeed debate with at least half a dozen people who claimed he could only fight at human speeds. But based on consistent feats throughout 6 films, Logan is not a bullet timer. And I find it very hypocritical of you to accuse other people of wanting to throw out one feat because they apparently don't like it, but you want to disregard his showings over nearly 6 entire films because it doesn't suite your argument.

And there is a lot more evidence to support the operation affecting Wade negatively, and possibly affecting his combat abilities, than there are for Logan suddenly being a bullet timer. Hell, he needed keyboard commands to even start fighting, and needed kill orders to go for a decap. If you literally need instructions programmed into you to perform certain actions in a fight, you cannot be considered to be fighting at full potential.

So I will ask you, do you think that all those characters who are more than capable of keeping up with Logan (even normal humans) are bullet timers too? Because by your logic and argument in this thread, they are.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The feat you posted doesn't even come close to matching Wade's feat, but go ahead and continue to wrongly think you actually proved something.

Me: Normal people can make blurs and after images

Silent Master: Then post people doing so

Me: Post link showing so

Silent Master: NO HUR DUR ITS NOT DEADPOOLS LEVEL

Me: Don't exactly remember saying that

This argument in a nutshell.

And again you ignore context, and your logic still puts Superman and spiderman on human level reaction feats

We were talking about Wade's feat, so it should have gone without saying that I was asking for something on that level. And you really need to stop lying about what my stance is.

Originally posted by Silent Master
We were talking about Wade's feat, so it should have gone without saying that I was asking for something on that level. And you really need to stop lying about what my stance is.

I'm using your logic. Superman and Spiderman didn't show superspeed when they fought, so again, by your logic, they don't have superspeed reactions.

So again its your logic that is faulty and your all in denial.

You're not using my logic, as I have explained to you multiple times..at this point I believe it's obvious to everyone that what you're doing is trolling.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're not using my logic, as I have explained to you multiple times..at this point I believe it's obvious to everyone that what you're doing is trolling.


And now your reduce to

SM: I don't like what your saying therefore you are trolling.

:Facepalm:

If you didn't have such shitty logic this wouldn't have been a problem.

Oh and you explained nothing. All you did was spam the thread.

Incorrect, I have explained why you are wrong multiple times and you just ignore it and continue to lie about my stance, which makes you a troll.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Incorrect, I have explained why you are wrong multiple times and you just ignore it and continue to lie about my stance, which makes you a troll.

No you haven't

Now you are lying.

I used your logic, and it doesn't wok. Deal with it.

>Calls me a troll
>Is reduced to calling names
>Spammed the thread

Irony.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Incorrect, I have explained why you are wrong multiple times and you just ignore it and continue to lie about my stance, which makes you a troll.

Again you proved nothing and I proved your logic doesn't work. Again you spam the thread because you have no other way out of this. So again, you lost and I won due to your crappy logic and troll like debating skills.

quan?

Originally posted by Silent Master
quan?

Again, reduced to calling names when you have lost.

Your getting quite more pathetic with each post.

Even Quan debates better than you

Originally posted by Mindset
He has only been ko'd 2 times from blunt force that I can remember.

He was KO'd by magneto hitting his head on the top of the train. He was KO'd by Sabertooth with the tree... he was KO'd in Origins by Creed again. He was KO'd in the Wolverine by arrows and a tipped in poison arrow. He was KO'd by a bullet when visiting Bobby's family. He was also KO'd in Origins by the adamantium bullet. Phoenix KO'd him. Magneto might have also KO'd him in the forest. He's been KO'd a decent amount of times in the movies.

Originally posted by Silent Master
"My logic" is going by what is in the movie.

Originally posted by Silent Master
That isn't my logic at all, it's says an awful lot about your side that you have to blatantly lie about my stance.

My logic is two-fold 1) that the scene showed no evidence of superspeed, thus no superspeed was used and 2) Wolverine has zero feats of fighting at BT speeds, thus he doesn't have BT level speed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, that isn't my stance all, if it was I'd be saying that Wade wasn't bullet-timing in the beginning of the movie since we can clearly see him.

Speaking of Wade's BT scene, even if you remove the bullets from it, you'd still have proof that he was faster than normal since he was moving the blades so fast that they were leaving after-images. in the Wolverine fight there is zero evidence to support that he was moving faster than normal.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I didn't say that the swords leaving after images was proof that he was bullet-timing, I said that it was proof that he was moving faster than normal. him blocking the bullets and cutting one in half is what shows us how much faster than normal he is moving.

The Wolverine fight has zero evidence that anybody was moving faster than normal.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He's misrepresenting my stance and then saying that my logic is faulty as that would mean guys that actually have speed feats(unlike Logan)don't have superspeed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
My logic is two-fold 1) that the scene showed no evidence of superspeed, thus no superspeed was used

And again, Superman and spiderman were fighting as fast as human beings going by that logic.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
So did you not read my post properly? I specifically took MoS and Garfield Spiderman, because Supes and Spidey got brought up. I never talked about any other characters. If you got "low end superhuman garbage" from their consistent feats throughout those 3 films, then you need your eyes checked.

I was actually focused only on the "tons of feats" shite. Like I said, most of fiction is unquantifiable, meaning you can't just make an unquantified statement and go either "oh yeah they're definitely that fast because they look fast to me" or "doesn't look impressive to me so it's not".

Like in DBZ for example, you have a few ki blasts and characters with qunatifiably Mach quadruple/quintuple speed feats during the Cell and Buu Sagas, rest of their fights appeared fast, mainly due to the presence of speed lines and afterimages, which is unquantifiable (if you tried to actually quantify most other movements, you'd get shit drastically below Mach 1)



By "consistent" you clearly mean "devoid of showings that make him more powerful than I think he should be"



Yeah, taking the best feats of a fictional character and assuming it to be definitive of their abilities, that's how vs debating pretty much works these days for most verses, why does X-Men get more scrutiny?

I mean, Saitama from One Punch Man only caused a massive shockwave on the moon with a punch once, but he doesn't leave petaton level shockwaves every time he punches something, doesn't mean Saitama can't punch that hard, again, it'd be far from the first time a verse was scaled to a single feat, you know (actually, pretty sure this'd be far from an outlier, hell, Magneto's stopped bullets in motion and Shaw, well pretty sure during Hellfire Club's raid on the CIA building he caught bullets when surrounded and fired upon, but don't quote me on that)



How does needing orders from a computer make him any slower, much less an order of magnitude, exactly?



If he was someone like Sabretooth who could match or even exceed him physically, then yeah. I mean, Kenpachi from Bleach has no speed feats personally, but he's physically superior to beings who have speed feats in his verse

As for normal humans hitting him, like I said before, this is a regular thing in fiction for character where super speed isn't their primary power to e hit by far slower things (even for characters like Goku, Yusuke Urameshi, Primarchs, Herald tier beings, etc)

Hell, pretty sure Wolverine in the comic verse who's bullet timed himself had been hit by normal humans before



blah blah blah incredulity blah blah blah snide passive aggressive condescension

Nothing of substance here moving on



Aaaand applying real life limitations to this shit, it's like saying the WW2 German Navy could beat the One Piece verse because they're an era of gunpowder and sail technology

Hell, Whitebeard and Blackbeard are much bigger than Blob, and are faster than the X-Men verse by god knows how many Mach numbers. The limits of reality are not the limits of fiction

Originally posted by Werewolf582
And again, Superman and spiderman were fighting as fast as human beings going by that logic.

You're still ignoring the part where Wolverine has zero feats of bullet-time speed.

IOW, Zero feats of bullet-time speed + no evidence of bullet-time speed being used in that scene = Wolverine wasn't fighting at bullet-time speed.

But yeah, I fail to understand why people who believe a bullet timing speed is so hard to believe, whereas for other verses nobody really cared

Hell, if you guys are perturbed by bullet timing movieverse X-Men chars, I honestly can't imagine how you guys'd react to massively hypersonic, continent busting Final Fantasy characters, massively hypersonic small town level Metal Gear characters, etc