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Battle takes place on neutral ground

no one?

Not sure how strong Talzin is on neutral ground.

I think SIDIOUS66 agrees Caedus kills Sidious

Originally posted by carthage
I think SIDIOUS66 agrees Caedus kills Sidious

Which Sidious?

DE will overpower all opposition. ROTJ and ROTS are something else again.

Team 1.
Talzin, even while weakened was able to defend against Sidious' power. She also was able to hold of Windu in swordsmanship. Dooku can easily hold back Nox or Malgus. Sidious has no shatterpoint so Caedus' skills will not be as effective against him.

It was only said she "might" be weakened. She was still in the heart of her power on Dathomir, which the witches have a special connection to.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It was only said she "might" be weakened. She was still in the heart of her power on Dathomir, which the witches have a special connection to.

Do you have another reason she was casually disarmed in 2 seconds by Sidious?

You mean other than the reason Sidious himself gives, that she's nowhere near Dooku's level of skill?

Stop at 4. 5 at best.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean other than the reason Sidious himself gives, that she's nowhere near Dooku's level of skill?

So then Mace is also no where near Dooku's level of skill?

Wrong thread bro

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku can easily hold back Nox or Malgus.

Dooku won't be easily holdig back neither Malgus nor Nox. He can definitely give them a good fight (and possibly win at that), but it's not going to be easy at all.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So then Mace is also no where near Dooku's level of skill?
Windu and Talzin had very short fight. It is possible that Windu was gauging her skill. It would be fullish to go all out against such an immensely powerful opponent with unusual weapon.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So then Mace is also no where near Dooku's level of skill?

That she briefly clashed with Mace doesn't imply similar skill. Arhaels points are solid. But sure, disagree with the dude who actually beat her on why he beat her. I'm certain your opinion is much more valid. That are make sense.

Also as if Mace isn't a ****ing massive jobber anyway.

Team 2

Dooku is outclassed here.

I don't think so, he is a better duelist than Malgus or Nox. Nox might have an easier time due to her unique force abilities, but Malgus can probably overwhelm him similarly (probably not as often as Nox though)

Malgus and Nox have history of out-dueling some of the finest swordsmen. I wouldn't underestimate their dueling abilities.

Dooku fought Yoda for a while but he couldn't keep up with Yoda for long and decided to escape. Also, I don't recall Dooku ever managing to out-duel another master swordsman. The next confrontation that Dooku had with one of the finest swordsman (i.e. Anakin as of ROTS), Dooku ended-up disarmed and disabled. Dooku have limits in dueling ability irrespective of the sheer hype.

Mace Windu, he's out-dueled him numerous times.

The only serious clash that I recall between Dooku and Mace Windu is the one in which droids overwhelmed Mace Windu after a short while, and Dooku once again had the opportunity to escape.

And I don't consider sparring matches as demonstration of real skill. They are for learning purposes.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Dooku won't be easily holdig back neither Malgus nor Nox. He can definitely give them a good fight (and possibly win at that), but it's not going to be easy at all.

You misinterpreted my post. "easily hold back" means it is easy to consider its within his skillset to hold either of them back and not get shitstomped.
Originally posted by Arhael
Windu and Talzin had very short fight. It is possible that Windu was gauging her skill. It would be fullish to go all out against such an immensely powerful opponent with unusual weapon.

No...we saw a small portion of it. The fight itself lasted well over a minute. Considering the props people give Dooku for lasting 30 seconds against Yoda its a valid feat.
Additionally, Talzin was performing a ritual that would have made her the most powerful being in the galaxy, its retarded to think that he wouldn't go all out to stop her and intentionally leave the fate of the Republic in Jar Jar's hand.



If clashing with him for over a minute doesn't imply similar skill, what does per say? Its also stated she'd be weakened...Why would you assume she was revived at full power?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The only serious clash that I recall between Dooku and Mace Windu is the one in which droids overwhelmed Mace Windu after a short while, and Dooku once again had the opportunity to escape.

And I don't consider sparring matches as demonstration of real skill. They are for learning purposes.

Too bad that the text that describes their bouts state "the only ones to ever overcome him in battle" NOT sparring.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Mace Windu, he's out-dueled him numerous times.
Actually it doesn't say anywhere that Windu ever outdueled Dooku. In one source it says that only Yoda and Dooku ever defeated Windu. At least I didn't find anything else after thorough research.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Do you have another reason she was casually disarmed in 2 seconds by Sidious?


Who says it was 2 seconds? Posters here still don't seem to get the comic book medium.


Originally posted by Arhael
Windu and Talzin had very short fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That she briefly clashed with Mace doesn't imply similar skill.


They fought for over a minute:

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They start their duel at around 0:48 (although Talzin began her attack before then even), and we see they're still fighting at 1:55 ( and fairly evenly by the looks of it).


Either way a minute certainly isn't a short fight in Star Wars. And the fact is the fight was still very undecided after that minute.

Yoda and Dooku knew well each other's moves. And in those 30 seconds we see them go all out on each other.

I didn't say he did not go all out. No, it's not retarded. Windu doesn't have extra life. Talzin is very dangerous opponent because of her magical powers, which can catch off guard even very experienced Jedi. Simple mistake would cost him life, so it makes sense for him to be extra careful. Any experienced Jedi will test his opponent's abilities to avoid fullish mistakes. Look what happened, when AotC Anakin bull rushed at Dooku - got completely caught off guard by lightning.

Also, I am sure that Sidious' saber fight with Talzin in Dooku's body lasted more than few seconds. Can anybody clarify? She is not on level with Dooku as confirmed by Sidious but she might still be skilled enough to hold her own for some time.

Originally posted by Arhael


Also, I am sure that Sidious' saber fight with Talzin in Dooku's body lasted more than few seconds. Can anybody clarify?




Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Who says it was 2 seconds? Posters here still don't seem to get the comic book medium.

Yeah, we wrote at the same time.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Who says it was 2 seconds? Posters here still don't seem to get the comic book medium.

Hyperbole is obvious in my statement. It wasn't Sidious vs. Agen, but it certainly wasn't a full duel, it was likely over in 15-20 seconds, especially considering Grievous' bout with Maul was far longer. It lasted 1 page bro, I've read plenty of comics and the fight lasted 3 panels, that was a no-diff by Sidious.

Yoda and Dooku knew well each other's moves. And in those 30 seconds we see them go all out on each other.

Do you have proof?



You heavily implied it.


Your futile red herring with Skywalker won't help you here. The situation was urgent, if he didn't end Talzin he'd risk her becoming far more powerful. There's nothing ot indicate he wasn't giving that fight his full power. If you want to concede. Concede. Also...its spelled foolish.


It lasted 3 panels. Hardly Kenobi vs. Skywalker.

She lost in 3 panels.

Like I said, Mace jobbing is nothing new. He has the one good fight with Sidious and every other fight he's had he's shown no great skill advantage over anyone and they've all been close.

Maybe we should just admit that Windu isn't actually that great.

Also maybe his Vapaad was getting screwed up by Talzins stupid magical bullshit.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Do you have proof?

Proof of what?

I don't really care why Windu did not out-duel her but Sidious did. Just gave a possibility.
Concede to what? She is as skilled as Windu? Let's ignore what Sidous said? What are you actually trying to prove?
And thank you for correcting that mistake. I am a fooking foreigner.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Hyperbole is obvious in my statement. It wasn't Sidious vs. Agen, but it certainly wasn't a full duel, it was likely over in 15-20 seconds, especially considering Grievous' bout with Maul was far longer. It lasted 1 page bro, I've read plenty of comics and the fight lasted 3 panels, that was a no-diff by Sidious.


I mean Vader vs Starkiller is like 3 panels in the comic book of TFU. So that's not proof at all tbh. Your Maul vs Grievous point however is a valid one. However long Sidious vs Talzin lasted it was significantly shorter than Maul vs Grievous.

Add that to Sidious actually beating Talzin (seemingly without much trouble) whereas Windu not gaining any advantage at all in over a minute, I'm inclined to agree Talzin wasn't in full form in Dooku's body, with Dooku's weapon, and possibly weakened.

Originally posted by Nephthys


Maybe we should just admit that Windu isn't actually that great.



Dunno about that. I think Talzin was portrayed as one of the most powerful beings in the Galaxy.



Originally posted by Nephthys


Also maybe his Vapaad was getting screwed up by Talzins stupid magical bullshit.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Dunno about that. I think Talzin was portrayed as one of the most powerful beings in the Galaxy.

Yeah, but she's apparently not much of a swordsman. Windu had to use all his skill to beat an early-CW Ventress. He's nowhere near as dominating as people think. But I agree that maybe she was able to hold her own on sheer power.

They fought for over a minute, but we really can't tell anything by what we see. Sure, it seemed like they were even, but that's hardly compelling evidence or proof that one of them didn't have the upper hand during the duel.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
They fought for over a minute, but we really can't tell anything by what we see. Sure, it seemed like they were even, but that's hardly compelling evidence or proof that one of them didn't have the upper hand during the duel.


So what would be evidence then?

If they fought for 5 seconds or if Talzin was backing away the whole time looking desperate, then it would be a whole different story, but it's quite laughable how people are acting like a minute of fighting with neither showing a clear advantage is nothing. Heck Mace vs Sidious wasn't much longer and Yoda vs Dooku was much shorter.

Plus you know, Talzin is supposed to be really powerful, so I don't see the need in lowballing her by saying "Oh well Mace was probably winning we just didn't see it".

No, I'm not saying Mace was probably winning. I actually think the duel was pretty close, because it definitely seemed like it was, but we really can't tell, because we only see very little of the fight. We assume it was a close fight; we can't be certain.

I know she's powerful. D'ya see that green lightning at the beginning? Jeez.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
but we really can't tell, because we only see very little of the fight.


Ah right, you're saying we only see very little of the fight, as opposed to saying it was a very short fight. Gotcha

Yes.

TEAM 2

This is a good one. I'm leaning towards Team 2.

I AGREE NOX OR MALGUS CAN PROBABLY EDGE A VICTORY AGAINST DOOKU OVERALL

CAEDUS SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOMP TALZIN, OR AT THE VERY LEAST STALEMATE OR KILL ROTS SIDIOUS

GOOD FIGHT THOUGH

Team 2 in a good fight.