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1. Wolf Sazen, Darth Talon, Anoon Bondara

2. Eeth Koth, Vodo Siosk Baas, Darth Nihl

3. Quinlan Vos, Daegen Lok, IG-88

4. Ven Zallow, Rahm Kota, Darth Nihl

5. Savage Opress, Plo Koon, Aayla Secura

6. Ulic Qel Droma, Jaina Solo

7. Obi Wan ROTS, Darth Maul SOD

BOSS: Jacen Solo (The Swarm wars)/Luke (as of 1st duel with Lumiya)

Eh, I think 3 combatants is too many. Difficult to say, honestly.

Five.

IDK, five and beyond beat him though.

How difficult do you think the first 3 fights are?

Stops at 2.

Honestly, 3 is easier then 2.

Definitely not passing 4. Ven Zallow himself can handle Dooku.

1. Wolf Sazen, Darth Talon, Anoon Bondara
- Wins with ease, any of them can be easily dispatched

2. Eeth Koth, Vodo Siosk Baas, Darth Nihl
- Vodo is the biggest threat here, but again neither Koth nor Nihil have the chops to defend against Dooku's powers.

3. Quinlan Vos, Daegen Lok, IG-88
- Dooku stomps

4. Ven Zallow, Rahm Kota, Darth Nihl
- Dooku wins, Kota charging in as he usually does will result in the same treatment Vader gave him. Nihil and Zallow are no match for Dooku

5. Savage Opress, Plo Koon, Aayla Secura
- Mmmm...this is a hard fight. In an enclosed setting...GG Dooku. But if its an open space with shit to toss around. Dooku secures a victory.

6. Ulic Qel Droma, Jaina Solo
- Probably the duo for the majority.

7. Obi Wan ROTS, Darth Maul SOD
- Solid win for Tyranus, Kenobi is a virtual non-factor as shown by him taking him to the curb twice even with Skywalker as back up.

BOSS: Jacen Solo (The Swarm wars)/Luke (as of 1st duel with Lumiya)
- Dooku'd probably lose to Luke alone.

1. is quite hard, but perhaps doable with proper use of the force.

2. he loses. Vodo is a tough solo fight for Exar Kun, Vodo with good backup is too much for Dooku. Even if he manages to take out one of the other two quick with force (probably Koth, Nihl can take a lot and get back up), he's still in big trouble.

3. he'd definitely win. Force take out IG, he knows Vos's style personal, easier than 1.

4. lose like 2.

5. I think a bit less strong than 2 and 4, but still, victory for the trio. Hard earned and probably with casualties though.

6. Both are dangerous individually, together is way too much.

7. Not as strong as 6, I'd lean to the duo, but Dooku does show surprising ease getting though Kenobi's defense, despite Kenobi's high level.

8. Duo

Q, Dooku would shred all but like 3 of the Legacy era. Not just beat, but shred. Krayt, Wyyrlok, and probably Cade are the only exceptions. Unless they're coming down on him in larger groups than 3-5, I don't see him really struggling with those mooks.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Eh, I think 3 combatants is too many. Difficult to say, honestly.

?v=2-O8QHZ382A

Tell that to these gals.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Q, Dooku would shred all but like 3 of the Legacy era. Not just beat, but shred. Krayt, Wyyrlok, and probably Cade are the only exceptions. Unless they're coming down on him in larger groups than 3-5, I don't see him really struggling with those mooks.

One, I don't see Dooku 'shredding' council level people regardless of era. Beat them, to be sure, but it's not that easy.

Sure, only Krayt, Wyyrlok, and Cade are a good fight one on one, but things don't go from 'good fight one on one' directly down to 'not of much use even in a team of 3, alongside someone stronger' in one step. Council fighters are not mooks.


Two, note how in *zero* cases did I note the Legacy person as a deciding factor. In no case is the legacy fighter more than the second best on the team- well, except for scenario one, and they don't have enough power combined anyway.

Vodo is a tough fight one on one. Throw in two council members- one CW, one Legacy. That's trouble.

Ven Zallow's a good fight for Malgus. Throw in Nihl and Kota on top, again, a tough battle.

Stops at 5. Might stalemate there, but wouldn't be surprised if he goes down either. Just don't see him getting past it though.


Originally posted by Lord Stark

7. Obi Wan ROTS, Darth Maul SOD
- Solid win for Tyranus, Kenobi is a virtual non-factor as shown by him taking him to the curb twice even with Skywalker as back up.




You think so? I think if it was Kenobi and Ventress it would be a solid win for Dooku. But not so sure about Kenobi and Maul.

Maul's competence would make him better able to aid Kenobi than Skywalker ever did Imho, even though in a 1 v 1 Skywalker > Maul.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Stops at 5. Might stalemate there, but wouldn't be surprised if he goes down either. Just don't see him getting past it though.





You think so? I think if it was Kenobi and Ventress it would be a solid win for Dooku. But not so sure about Kenobi and Maul.

Maul's competence would make him better able to aid Kenobi than Skywalker ever did Imho, even though in a 1 v 1 Skywalker > Maul.
Yes, Kenobi is definitely not a non-factor. Dooku was lucky to be able to take out Kenobi with Force in RotS. In the previous encounter Dooku was unable to do it and retreated.

I think Dooku can take 5 but definetely a very hard fight. Dooku has a good chance to handle with Force anyone out of three. But at the same time all three are skilled enough not to be out-dueled easily.

What? Dooku is head over heels above and beyond Kenobi in absolutely every way. I don't think there's ever been even one time when Kenobi demonstrates he can take on Dooku and give him a truly good fight.

Dooku is not "head over heels and beyond Kenobi in absolutely every way." They're similarly skilled duelists.

Originally posted by Arhael
Yes, Kenobi is definitely not a non-factor. Dooku was lucky to be able to take out Kenobi with Force in RotS. In the previous encounter Dooku was unable to do it and retreated.

I think Dooku can take 5 but definetely a very hard fight. Dooku has a good chance to handle with Force anyone out of three. But at the same time all three are skilled enough not to be out-dueled easily.

You have a funny way of remembering things. Dooku was not on the retreat for that whole fight, he was fighting pretty aggressively and he tossed Kenobi like a pimp tosses a whore who owes him money. He broke his ribs and nearly killed him by kicking him off the ramp. Kenobi was treated as a non-factor by Dooku in that due.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Dooku is not "head over heels and beyond Kenobi in absolutely every way." They're similarly skilled duelists.

No they aren't Dooku broke Kenobi's ribs and nearly killed him on Oba Dia with no useage of the force. Just his raw combat skills. This is with Skywalker.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Stops at 5. Might stalemate there, but wouldn't be surprised if he goes down either. Just don't see him getting past it though.





You think so? I think if it was Kenobi and Ventress it would be a solid win for Dooku. But not so sure about Kenobi and Maul.

Maul's competence would make him better able to aid Kenobi than Skywalker ever did Imho, even though in a 1 v 1 Skywalker > Maul.

I doubt it. Kenobi and Skywalker both know each other's forms inside and out. They have practiced for endless hours of sparring which is why Kenobi knew Anakin's form so well on Mustafar. Their synergy will be FAR superior to Maul and Kenobi.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Dooku is not "head over heels and beyond Kenobi in absolutely every way." They're similarly skilled duelists.

No. Kenobi is 1 tier below Dooku. He'll never be able to defeat him. He'll lose 10/10 against him.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
No. Kenobi is 1 tier below Dooku. He'll never be able to defeat him. He'll lose 10/10 against him. I didn't say he could defeat him, but Dooku would have to put in a lot of effort to break through his guard.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No they aren't Dooku broke Kenobi's ribs and nearly killed him on Oba Dia with no useage of the force. Just his raw combat skills. This is with Skywalker. Kenobi and Anakin were basically tripping over each other. Neither Kenobi or Anakin were on their game. And Dooku using physical strikes is different from him going toe-to-toe with Kenobi in pure swordsmanship. I agree Dooku would defeat him, though.

I don't think he'd need to put a lot of effort into defeating Kenobi, mainly because he never has. Other than the fact that Dooku's the far better duelist and Force user and combatant overall, Kenobi's Soresu is simply not a good match for Dooku's Makashi.

Originally posted by Lord Stark


I doubt it. Kenobi and Skywalker both know each other's forms inside and out. They have practiced for endless hours of sparring which is why Kenobi knew Anakin's form so well on Mustafar. Their synergy will be FAR superior to Maul and Kenobi.


Synergy's not quite what I was getting at.

Maul's Tk mastery for instance is quite beastly. Not as good as Dooku's but still very powerful. So I doubt Maul will just have to watch helplessly as Dooku Tk's Kenobi.

Also Maul's a tough combatant for Dooku. Dooku will beat him 1 v 1 but hardly with ease. So fighting off both Kenobi and Maul first, then finishing Kenobi would likely leave a less than 100% Dooku for Maul to face.

I also do feel people underestimate Kenobi's swordsmanship and overall prowess due to his performances against Dooku. End of the day Kenobi stalemated Vader in both ROTS and ANH, and has consistently stalemated Maul as well. And that's on his own. Here he has Maul at his currently known peak fighting alongside him.

Also, lets not forget Kenobi's feats against Maul and Opress together and against Anakin. Yes, Dooku is superior but taking out Kenobi is definitely not an easy task for him and it's definetely not a guaranty that Dooku will be able to take out Kenobi with Force in other circumstances.

Originally posted by The_Tempest




?v=2-O8QHZ382A

Tell that to these gals.

Sure, but those Nightsisters all have roughly the same power and skill. It's a little harder to analyse what would transpire if Dooku fights 3 combatants of different skill and power level each one. But after some thought I believe he'll die at no. 6 after clearing the previous duels quite easily.

Dooku eliminating Strike Teams prior to 6th one easily? Joke of the century.

I'd be surprised if Dooku even gets past 2. He is done and dusted at 4 for sure.

lol, how'd I know he would be done at the first team with a TOR character?

I actually agree with Legend tbh. Team 2 are all solid duelists and together they stand a good shot. Team 4 is too much.

Joke of the century? Lawlz

Dooku is far superior to all of his opponents before 6, and you saw how he took on the Nightsisters (who are formidable duelists) completely unprepared and still defeated them. Nothing suggests he'd be beaten until he faces the big guys.

Nah, five definitely gives him a fight if they lose.

Originally posted by Q99
One, I don't see Dooku 'shredding' council level people regardless of era. Beat them, to be sure, but it's not that easy.

Sure, only Krayt, Wyyrlok, and Cade are a good fight one on one, but things don't go from 'good fight one on one' directly down to 'not of much use even in a team of 3, alongside someone stronger' in one step. Council fighters are not mooks.


Two, note how in *zero* cases did I note the Legacy person as a deciding factor. In no case is the legacy fighter more than the second best on the team- well, except for scenario one, and they don't have enough power combined anyway.

Vodo is a tough fight one on one. Throw in two council members- one CW, one Legacy. That's trouble.

Ven Zallow's a good fight for Malgus. Throw in Nihl and Kota on top, again, a tough battle.

Get outta here. Dooku is head and shoulders above your average Council-level Master, regardless of era. It's not that they're mooks in general, but they are mooks next to the good Count. Numbers mean diddly unless the units that comprise them are up to the challenge. Dooku makes short work of teams all the time.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Nah, five definitely gives him a fight if they lose.

Savage has no defense against lightning, he's almost a non-factor against Dooku.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Get outta here. Dooku is head and shoulders above your average Council-level Master, regardless of era.

Yep, agreed.

Which doesn't make them useless, especially if they're backup to someone stronger like Vodo.

The idea that 'once you're stronger, the lower level doesn't matter,' is one I very much don't agree with, and I don't think it holds up.



He doesn't make short work of teams of 3 council level individuals!

And some of these teams have individuals higher than that to boot.


Council Level people are good fights to Savage and Ventress, and both of those individuals are quite useful against Dooku, as we've seen.




He looked more than a non-factor in the actual fight we saw...

If Dooku has knowledge that Savage doesn't have a defense against his lightning, he goes down. Fast.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
If Dooku has knowledge that Savage doesn't have a defense against his lightning, he goes down. Fast.



Hey?


He blasted Savage with Lightning plenty when he fought off him and Ventress. And Savage did not go down fast. Well, he was on his knees, but Dooku had to keep blasting him to keep him that way. And in the end that just enraged Savage anyway.

He can take him fast 1 v 1 as shown in their training sessions, but 2/3 on 1 and Savage's physical strength seems to become much more problematic.

Stops at 4 or 5, he's tired by then.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Hey?


He blasted Savage with Lightning plenty when he fought off him and Ventress. And Savage did not go down fast. Well, he was on his knees, but Dooku had to keep blasting him to keep him that way. And in the end that just enraged Savage anyway.

He can take him fast 1 v 1 as shown in their training sessions, but 2/3 on 1 and Savage's physical strength seems to become much more problematic.

True, but I'd rank Ventress above Plo and Aayla. Those two would go down quite fast against the Count imo. He can keep Savage at bay long enough to kill off the other two. And when he does, he goes full lightning against him and the duel ends.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Synergy's not quite what I was getting at.

Maul's Tk mastery for instance is quite beastly. Not as good as Dooku's but still very powerful. So I doubt Maul will just have to watch helplessly as Dooku Tk's Kenobi.

Also Maul's a tough combatant for Dooku. Dooku will beat him 1 v 1 but hardly with ease. So fighting off both Kenobi and Maul first, then finishing Kenobi would likely leave a less than 100% Dooku for Maul to face.

I also do feel people underestimate Kenobi's swordsmanship and overall prowess due to his performances against Dooku. End of the day Kenobi stalemated Vader in both ROTS and ANH, and has consistently stalemated Maul as well. And that's on his own. Here he has Maul at his currently known peak fighting alongside him.


Maul isn't that hard of a combatant against Dooku. Tyranus has lightning, superior TK and superior lightsaber skills, and all of those aren't small gaps they are solid superiority for Tyranus. Additionally Skywalker has superior TK to Maul which did absolutely nothing for him when Dooku implanted his Rancor skinned boot in Anakin's chest and proceeded to choke out and severely injure his best friend and father figure.


Originally posted by Arhael
Also, lets not forget Kenobi's feats against Maul and Opress together and against Anakin. Yes, Dooku is superior but taking out Kenobi is definitely not an easy task for him and it's definetely not a guaranty that Dooku will be able to take out Kenobi with Force in other circumstances.

http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/esdpva.png

9pI8IkWa3LQ

Dooku nearly kills him here at :59

And he's pushing them back from then on.

Throws Kenobi like a ***** who owes him money at 1:17 and breaks his ribs.

Lets be clear here without Skywalker, Kenobi doesn't have a chance in high hell to not get eviscerated by

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Throws Kenobi like a ***** who owes him money at 1:17 and breaks his ribs. He broke his ribs? What?

Originally posted by |King Joker|
He broke his ribs? What?

He's clutching his side for the rest of the fight.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
He's clutching his side for the rest of the fight. I only see him clutch it twice after Dooku knees him in the ribs. Doesn't at all mean they're broken.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
I only see him clutch it twice after Dooku knees him in the ribs. Doesn't at all mean they're broken.

Jedi have extremely high pain tolerance. We see them get their asses kicked and never hold their sides in pain like that. And nah it was after Dooku threw him that he holds it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Maul isn't that hard of a combatant against Dooku. Tyranus has lightning, superior TK and superior lightsaber skills, and all of those aren't small gaps they are solid superiority for Tyranus.


I see it more as a small gap in each department giving Dooku a solid win overall tbh.

This is the same Maul who treated Opress as a non-factor (the same Opress who has Council members for breakfast), went up against Mace Windu/Aalya Secura at the same time and chucked a Jedi shuttle.

Dooku is superior, but don't underestimate the Sith prodigy that Maul is just because he struggles against Obi-Wan. After all Anakin Skywalker himself couldn't defeat Obi-Wan.



Originally posted by Lord Stark
Additionally Skywalker has superior TK to Maul which did absolutely nothing for him when Dooku implanted his Rancor skinned boot in Anakin's chest and proceeded to choke out and severely injure his best friend and father figure.




Anakin might have more raw power and better raw Tk feats, but in practice Maul seems to be able to apply his Tk much more masterfully and consistently. Hence Maul choking out Obi-Wan in Sith Hunters, and levitating him in Revival, yet Anakin stalemated a Tk contest with Obi-Wan in ROTS.

Maul > Anakin in tk.

Anakin is only equal to Obi-Wan Kenobi in TK, as seen by them pushing each other back in their ROTS fight.

Originally posted by Trocity
Anakin is only equal to Obi-Wan Kenobi in TK, as seen by them pushing each other back in their ROTS fight.
That was Vader

Originally posted by Nephthys
Maul > Anakin in tk.

http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/esdpva.png

There's only so much of your bullshit I can take Neph, stick to TOR in terms of ranking characters. Anakin collapses a massive dome with a screen, moves massive weapon platforms, and huge statues. Maul isn't on his level.

Force Scream isn't TK, exaggerated feat, Mauls moved space shuttles.

Throwing that huge statue is better than moving the shuttle. Also, ragdolling Ventress in a vastly weaker incarnation than RotS.

I dunno, that shuttle is pretty ****ing big man. And that wasn't peak Maul. Plus Anakin was on a nexus. awegimp

Vastly weaker? Wasn't that near the end of the clone wars? Maul improved as well don't forget. And he's ragdolled Kenobi and shit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Force Scream isn't TK, exaggerated feat, Mauls moved space shuttles.

Its the same principle + it made Dooku shit his pants, ha this shit again, as if Skywalker could not? Please.

^ Yeah Skywalke has some great Tk feats (in the Eu). But for all those feats he still stalemated Kenobi and is still outclassed by Dooku in that area When fighting him.

Given that, I find it very hard to believe Anakin's Tk is on "another level" to Maul's in an average combat situation.

In canon I'd say Anakin and Maul are roughly on par in terms of Force ability.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
In canon I'd say Anakin and Maul are roughly on par in terms of Force ability.

Possibly in power, but I'm sure most would agree Maul eclipses him in mastery and skill.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
In canon I'd say Anakin and Maul are roughly on par in terms of Force ability.

Nah, Anakin is more powerful. Anakin as of ROTS is stated by Windu to be arguably the most powerful Jedi alive. The dude is a monster.

People using that Kenobi feat aren't taking his mindset into consideration at all.

Quote, source?

Windu has pretty inaccurate estimations of most people it seems. RotS Anakin isn't (much) more powerful than Dooku, who Sidious and thus likely Yoda, could cream with the Force.

Iirc he was just basing it off Anakin beating Dooku. Which Yoda didn't, but then Yoda is Yoda.

TCSWE has Anakin as "far more powerful" than Dooku, iirc. It's under Dooku's entry.

Yet Dooku was able to push back Anakin and Obi-Wan with the Force on blahb;lahworld. Anakin is technically far more powerful than Dooku, Sidious, Yoda etc but in terms of his actualised power he's worse than Dooku imho.

He became "vastly" more powerful between TCW S5 and RotS, according to SW.com.

Page?

http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker

Under the Operation Knightfall picture.

"The Clone Wars continued, and Anakin became a hero and grew vastly in power."

^ That's interesting, but doesn't say he was "vastly" more powerful than Dooku.

But in any case we're talking strictly Tk here (applicable in combat). I'm not sure why people think he's above Maul's level in that category.

Nope. TCSWE says that.

Originally posted by ILS
Nope. TCSWE says that.


Again does it refer specifically to Tk which is what we're debating here?


Also you have the quote?

I might be wrong on this, but I vividly remember finding a quote from the Complete Encyclopedia months ago that described Palpatine as having found an apprentice who had "far more power in the Force" than his now-dead apprentice . I'm looking but can't find anything so far. So, don't take my word for it until I find it.

The idea that Kenobi and Anakin are equal in TK is intensely flawed, mindset mattered just as much with force powers as it did dueling in that fight.

Originally posted by ILS
I might be wrong on this, but I vividly remember finding a quote from the Complete Encyclopedia months ago that described Palpatine as having found an apprentice who had "far more power in the Force" than his now-dead apprentice . I'm looking but can't find anything so far. So, don't take my word for it until I find it.


No worries.

Originally posted by Selenial
The idea that Kenobi and Anakin are equal in TK is intensely flawed, mindset mattered just as much with force powers as it did dueling in that fight.


Well it's hard to say, because on one hand we're told he became more powerful when he embraced the dark side, whilst no one official has specifically said his mind set hindered him.

The closest we have is Filoni talking about how every fight plays out differently depending on the combatants mind set and context of the fights.

But even if it did hinder him, embracing the dark side enhanced him, so we need more proof of Anakin's superior Tk tbh.

Kenobi had TK contest with Anakin but he never had contest with Dooku, so strength of Dooku's and Anakin's TK can't be compared based on that. On the other hand Dooku is much more skilled than Anakin with TK, that's why he took out Kenobi without a contest. Anakin is more powerful and his TK is stronger than anyone's but he can't utilize it as skilfully and unpredictably as Dooku or Maul.

Anyway, during Kenobi's contest with Anakin, they got separated by Force explosion. If it did not happen, Anakin would eventually overpower Kenobi. It is a demonstration why lightsabers take precedence over Force fight, rather than prove that Kenobi's TK is equal to Anakin.

Guys you know I was being sarcastic when I brought that up right?

Originally posted by Arhael
Kenobi had TK contest with Anakin but he never had contest with Dooku, so strength of Dooku's and Anakin's TK can't be compared based on that. On the other hand Dooku is much more skilled than Anakin with TK, that's why he took out Kenobi without a contest. Anakin is more powerful and his TK is stronger than anyone's but he can't utilize it as skilfully and unpredictably as Dooku or Maul.

Anyway, during Kenobi's contest with Anakin, they got separated by Force explosion. If it did not happen, Anakin would eventually overpower Kenobi. It is a demonstration why lightsabers take precedence over Force fight, rather than prove that Kenobi's TK is equal to Anakin.


It's true we don't often see an actual force contest between opponents. It's usually just one catching the other off guard. And when we do see a Force contest (Luminara vs Ventress, Anakin vs Kenobi, Yoda vs Sidious) it tends to always have the same result, a 2-way Force explosion.

That being said Dooku gets in a lot of Tk hits in his fights, which almost always gives him a major advantage in combat. And when they do get hit by Dooku, Anakin has been shown to be capable of taking those Tk attacks much better than Kenobi could.