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Did the Architect reference the Oracle as the mother of the Matrix or was he talking about Trinity?

Oracle.

Yeah the Oracle.

You could totally tell she's one of those momma types, always baking cookies and giving out candy.

she gave the solution of the 'functional' matrix: choice

But what confused me was why when Neo asked if he was referring the Oracle, the rather distastfully, the architect responded "Please".?

I know the Oracle was an important Program, but it's safe to say that her and the Architect are against each other.

no...but the architect doesn't consider her to be an 'oracle', that's it. maybe he simply doesn't belive in such a concept

i agree with flip. the architect distastfully dismissed neo's reference to the oracle. i believe the mother is persephone

Yes, the "please" could have been " don't mention her to me, i don't like her (the Oracle)", or "pulease, like the Oracle could have been the cocreater of the Matrix. So Tevesh, should you wish to answer...if Persephone is the cocreator of the Matrix, why is she hiding out w/ the Merovingian? Do you think there was any sort of computer code significance to their kiss? What is her relation to the Architect? They were both wearing white btw.

to me the only reason she is called the Oracle and its able to predict whats gonna happen is because shes seen it before the previous 5 times so she knows whats gonna happened

Here's my understanding of the Oracle.

Im not sure why, but too many people have been easily swayed to the dark side after watching reloaded. Though part the Program, the Oracle is still very good. To understand more fully or exactly what the Oracle is, you have to listen her words carefully, and the words that lead up to her scene.

First off, when Neo asks the Asian "bodygaurd" what he does, he Specifically says" I Protect What Matters Most", now the camera leads you directly to who...The Oracle. She to HIM..."Matters Most". (Later I'll tell you what I think that could mean). But it means she's very important.

But getting back to the fact that the Oracle is important...or should I say WAS important.
The Oracle told EVERYTHING, just not in order. She said, in the Matrix..PROGRAMS are everywhere, the working Programs, are NOT SEEN. 2 Minutes Earlier she revealed that SHE IS A PROGRAM! Well guess what...if you can SEE the Oracle....THEN SHE IS NOT WORKING FOR THE MATRIX.

That right there ends all ideas of her leading Neo to the Architect, as PART of the mind control of the Matrix. Eventhough it makes her look bad, trust me, her leading Neo in that direction is part of her plan, as there probably is no other way to go about her plan. But what IS her plan??

Just Like Meravingian, and the monsters, they were ALL REPLACED by a better Program,..and SOME programs still exist and resist to go on and "do things they are NOT supposed to do". The Oracle IS doing something she's NOT supposed to do. She's HELPING MAN KIND. And if you hear the lack of respect the Arhitect has for her, you'll realize they are NOT on the Same team.

The Oracle is a program, that at some point in time came to the Realization, that Machines and Man, need to Co-exist! She basically revealed this aswell. This is her vue. But unfortunatly in order to do this, Mankind must Rise up, and be free of the Matrix. For a Program WITHIN the Matrix, this is unacceptable to say the least,..so she was replaced. (It's Possible,..Im not saying it's true, but the Oracle Perhaps WAS the Architect at one point, Or had Persephone's position at one point. Either way, the Oracle was VERY Important at ONE TIME, and her views were not accepted.)

But the fact is, she's not connected to the Matrix any longer, she does not abide by it, she's ON the RUN. It was revealed that she HAS MANY ENEMIES. Who would be after her?? The Matrix Ofcourse, and it's many abiding Programs. You See the architect is not Working hand in hand with the Oracle, if he knew where she was..he'd DELETE her.

Also Look at her as the Yoda of this Movie. They are both Concerned with bringing Balance to the force or world. Think about WHY the Matrix even exists. Because Man Created Machine in his image, the Machines REBELLED..get it THEY REBELLED, even THEY fought their own slavey! And are doing Exactly What happened to them, when MAN was in charge. Both Man and Human don't realize, though that, mankind cannot be stopped or controlled, any more than Machines can. The Machines are Trying to PERFECT the program for FREE WILL...And Man pretty much made Machines, thinking they had NO free will. Ironic? No. The point is, neither of the 2 will be totally Controlled. The Balance must emerge for this to end.

Maybe that will happen due to Agent Smith's new findings, or maybe the extention of Neo's machine enabled abilities in the real world.

Think about this..The Architect is Hell bent on findind the program of free will, through "The One's" right? And with NEO, this probably would have been the Last bit of info they needed to get that, perhaps.

But here's the tricky part..I believe that the Oracle's inner Belief is that, the Matrix will NEVER be able to copy that Free will and control it...THIS is why the Oracle helps speed up the process of finding "the ONE", for the Sole fact that this plan of the Architect, will Bite him in the ass in the end.

Because the Architect thinks, after a few "Neo's" come and go, He'll get Closer to the Answer to Sustaining the Matrix..indefinitly.

But the Oracle Believes..After a few Neo's Come and Go, Man will only get Stronger, and BETTER at being "The One", that eventually, not much would be able to stop him from bringing Balance to earth. The Matrix is trying to adapt, but after every generation of Neo, Man Evolves, becoming more unstoppable. So much so, that this new gained power will even extend into the REAL world. And if this Savior has Power OUTSIDE the Matrix....WHAT'S GOING TO STOP HIM FROM SAVING THE WORLD? Nothing.

Good post, however i think that Neo is believed to be an anomally rather than "the one" by the machines. An anomally is one who's power extend only in the matrix where he is that percent that doesn't except it. In the beginning of the first movie you can see this through Neo's uncomfortability of the world around him, that slight feeling of amiss in his environment. When Neo becomes "the one" in the eyes of Morpheus, he only is believed to be an anomally in the eyes of the matrix, because Neo can only be the one if he can stop a sentinel from attacking and manipulate other machines outside the matrix, and throughout most of the second he is still considered anomally. Because the matrix cannot fully calculate the percentage of people who don't accept the matrix, anomallies, (the architect touched on this when he said that the variance was indetectable due to the complexity of the imperfection of the human psyche) they can never full say that Neo is not the one. I took a computer course, and it taught me that a computer can only read the decimals of a number to a certain extent and ten it stops. So the complex percentage of anomallies can only be read to a certain number and not to its full value. The computer than will round to the nearest readable decimal. The difference between the actual value of anomallies and the rounded is the percent chance that Neo is "the One" I hope this made sense.

Does anyone besides me think that there is some connection with the cookies and candy that the oracle gives Neo, or is it that I overanalyze everthing in the movie?

Flip,
GREAT POST! i'm in agreement with you man!

SiFi,
The entire matrix is a system of control. The Architect says this. He knows that an anomaly is going to be created. While he can't stop it, or doesn't want to stop it, he can control it. This is in the dialogue between him and Neo. I also believe that Oracle is, or can be, or is possibly being used as another system of control. The agents also fall under this category. Knowing full well that they would need the keymaker to get to him (him being the architect), he has Persephone stay with the French dude, and help them. You gotta think now, why didn't he do anything once Persephone betrayed him? All he said was: "Woman, you'll be the death of me." and she skidadles. As the mother, she also symbolizes hope.

The Architect says:
"Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness."

Persephone provided strenght to the trio by allowing them to procure The Keymaker. But at the same time, she became a weakness by in a sense tearing Neo away from Trinity through her kiss. The seperation is only temporary, but it provided the weakness still.

I also was wondering about the cookies and candy from the Oracle. Does this have any relation to the red pill or the interesting chocolate cake given to the blonde? Or is this just a red herring?

I just considered it candy, though I thought the candy being red was a strange coincidence.

one thing i've heard was with the cookie. a cookie is what a website leaves behind on your computer so that your computer will "remember" that site. i guess she gave him the cookie, or an object like a cookie (candy) so that he will return to her later on.

No ideas on the cake though. Maybe something with causality that will be more important in the next movie?

Nice I like that theory Tevesh.

how is red candy different from any other type of candy?

I read this theory, about the Matrix being in effect inside another Matrix, which means that what Zionists believe is real is in fact just another Matrix, to control them. This explains Neo's power of stopping the Sentinels in the real world. The read candy that the Oracle offers, is according to my theory, smt like the red pill that Morpheus offered Neo in the first movie. It helped him realise that what they thought was real is in fact another Matrix.

ah...never thought of that. Though, I don't believe Zion is another level of the matrix, or another matrix all together. It all has to do with Smith and Neo.

Has anyone considered Trinity to be the hope? She risked her life by going into the Matrix so Neo could walk through the door to the Architect , and remember Neo says "I need you" - Strength. She is also the reason Neo abandons the door to his right, to save her - Weakness.
I also believe Persephone is the mother - I think she only gave Neo the Keymaker so that the cycle would continue unto the next stage.

HI! I would just like to say this is my first post i have read closely to what you guys have written, and I found my self (to say the least) compelled by your theorys.

PERSEPHONE:
When the architect refers to the mother of the matrix he could be reffering to persephone, she is a well known actor and played a minute part in RELOADED which could imply she will play a far more important part in revolutions.

For you people who didn't already know this PERSEPHONE in greek mythology is the goddess of nature (sort of) so could her name have something to do with this in the matrix?

ORACLE:
Always says bingo, probably nothing but made me think, what do you think?

PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR VIEW

Redhot, welcome aboard.

First off, Persephone was the daughter of i believe Demeter. She was kidnapped by Hades and taken to the underworld where she ate 6 pomegrante seeds. Because of that, she must spend 6 months with Hades in the underworld and 6 with her mother. (This is how the Greeks explained Summer and Winter. Demeter was the goddess of grain. Somebody correct me if it's not Demeter, btw). Persephone became the Goddess of the Underworld. This makes a lot of sense because she could control the renegade programs her husband kept. These werewolves and vampires. What better place than the underworld for them to stay?

Second, I downloaded the trailer at the end of reloaded for revolutions and spliced out this pic. While it doens't show that Persephone is the mother of the matrix, it definetely starts point out that she has a much bigger, more important part than we are supposed to know of. (The mother?)

Yes!!! I knew it was something along those lines, but the last time i did greek mythology at school was a long time ago.

Persephone will SURELY play a larger part in the next movie, she is a well renowned actor, she wouldn't settle for the tiny part she played in RELOADED... would she?

I DUNNO!!! MORE OPINIONS PLEASE

It's probably already established, but I also believe that Persephone is the "Mother" of the Matrix since the Architect said that the mother was designed to master human emotions, which would explain the kiss with Neo. I also think that the kiss has more significance considering the attention and camera angles they used to show it, but who really knows?

Ok, this may be nit-picking

The rounding problem may be the problem you detect, but the fundamental problem is insufficient computing resources.

The problem with rounding up/down is (often) due to the binary representation of floating decimal numbers in computers. But given that the architect has all relevant formulaes, it's possible to circumvent that. It's often possible to adapt the equations to work with integers only. Or, if the limits on integers are insufficient for the calculations, you could define all mathematical (or other) operations on strings of characters.

(Suppose this is wrong, then how can there exist algorithms that calculate, say, the value of pi, or the natural constant e, with arbitrary number of decimals - GIVEN enough computing time?)

So, there is something that is running out.. Either time or computer memory - so the calculations can not be fulfiled (without rounding errors or other errors).

Persephone and Hades are the Greek names, Demeter is the Roman name. Those thieving Romans stole their mythology after beating the shit outta the Greek. Good mythological skills Tevesh.

i think the cookie and the candy had something coz larry and andy said in an interview in M1 that the movie has hidden simbols and everything means something

i've been searching a lot (sorry for my english) and i heard so many opinions but here goes mine..... in the first movie there something like there a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. So is everyone think a little...its like a words game in M1 and M2. Neo doesnt belive in fate so this means that everything the oracle or the arquitect said,ok he done what she said(Oracle) but i think he dont really belive in the words they keep saying to him. I think it was kind of stupid he did all the oracle told him to do. It seems like is to easy for him just doing what they kept saying. That was the reason he stop doing the things the arquitect told him. Im agree in rencarnations and he became more powerful that the pasts Ones. I agree that trinity really loves him and viceversa. Some people keep saying that they dont really in love but i think they ARE. Coz Trinity risked her live to save him and something like that its done for love and only for LOVE. I think (i seen the movies 3 times and tomorrow is my fourth) that Neo didnt ate that candy, he only takes it but not ate it. But that means something he didnt accept what the oracle said like in the M1 where he ate that cookie. Someone said in other forum that IN M1 when that agent were interrogating Neo when the camera were zooming there was monitors like the ones apears in M2. So that person in the other forum said that the arquitect was watching Neo before Morpheous got him awake. That means that the Arq. knew what Mr. Anderson will going to be. About the end of M2 i think Noe has a little bit of information from Smith and V/C i think neo is more powerfull in M3. I read in a interview with W Bros that their favorite ones were "there is no spoon" and he also like a LOT Alice in wonderland... Maybe we should see this movie (ALICE.......) and c whats going on with it.

OR Maybe we getting too complicate and the M3 will so easy to understand

demeter is the GREEK name, the roman name for demeter is CERES, ok?

ghsfnngn

how do you get the multi-player mode in "enter the matrix", how?

Whoa! hang on a sec there FLIPMODE. U said that the oracle said that if they are not from the matrix program then they can be seen correct? Well that is actaully incorrect becuase what she ACTUALLY said was the programs u cant see are the ones that are doing what they are meant to be doing. The ones who aren't are the ones you can see. therefore as u said, the oracle is therefore not doing what she is supposed to be doing and hence could somehow not be a part of the initial matrix program, yet she is an affiliate with it as she is not human.

Flipmode, you need to go see the movie again. the programs that are running as they SHOULD are the ones who are INVISIBLE. The ones who AREN'T are the ones VISIBLE. But that doesn't change the fact that the oracle could be a part of the system, but she also could not be a part of it. but when she's on the park bench with Neo, he says that to her, that she's apart of the system. Thats why he asks her if he can trust her or not.

Whose to say that Mero isn't the Mother of the Matrix?

Why Mero...because who said the Mother has to be a woman? Think about it...in Matrix 1...Neo made the assumption that Trinity was man when he(Neo) read all those reports about the Trinity doing those hacks and what not...Whose to say that Mero couldn't be the mother as well.

We've already seen one instance where he has the ability to write code on demand(ie. orgasmic cake)...Neo doesn't seem to be able to write the code for the Matrix...but rather be able to see the code and only manipulate it.

I'm not saying I'm correct in this assumption, its only a new theory I'd like to throw out on the table.

Official: The Oracle is the mother

the oracle is the mother for a fact.. smith calls her mom and she talks to archie

whoops didnt see sifers post..

after revos, i am 100% certain she IS

you would know mom

the oracle isnt the mother because when he said " shes must be the mother" neo said the oracle and he said please. so i think he was saying the oracle wasnt the mother. and he said to tell the oracle that her time is up

who else is it then, it MUST be the oracle

watch the last scene and you will understand, look at how they talk to each other

lol revolutions is out... the oracle is the mother smith calls her mom and she talks to the architect

i dont think smith means it literaly, but just that he sees her as a motherly figure, or the person he took over sees her as one?

was the oracle good? Or did she destroy Neo and only help the architects purpose.

the oracle and archi seem to work against each other, all the oracle wants to do is unbalance the equation whereas he want to balance it: the oracle wants the war to end

And these are programs created by the Machines for a purpose.

I suppose this thread should be allowed to stay, until everyone has had a chance to see Revolutions, where it's all revealed.