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Both get standard equipment.

Who is winning this?

Legolas

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130627111817/lotr/images/d/da/Legolas_portrait_-_EmpireMag.jpg

Elves are naturally very strong, agile and weightless. Movie Legolas takes this to another level entirely, even compared to other Elves. Furthermore he has an enormous range advantage, with masterful accuracy and timing to match it. MCU Cap is very strong and durable, but I'm not sure how he stacks up against Legolas.

Cap wins

Originally posted by AncientPower
Elves are naturally very strong, agile and weightless. Movie Legolas takes this to another level entirely, even compared to other Elves. Furthermore he has an enormous range advantage, with masterful accuracy and timing to match it. MCU Cap is very strong and durable, but I'm not sure how he stacks up against Legolas. There is no range advantage when Cap has his shield.

Cap has a massive strength advantage, is fast enough to fight with him, and it's basically his fight to lose.

Elves are very strong as well, Bolg was absolutely enormous and couldn't overpower him in either of their fights.

Legolas has the advantage that he doesn't weigh anything and can walk on snow where a human, dwarf or hobbit has to trudge through. He can make use of the environment in ways Cap cannot.

Furthermore his Shield is only so big and against essentially the best marksman of the Third Age who can fire an arrow per second. He'd be incredibly over-stretched to close that distance without being injured. Especially against a far more agile and quick opponent.

Azog was able to send a few Dwarves flying back with the force of his swings, Bolg is prolly as strong and Legolas was able to fight him on even grounds

Make of that what you will

Cap threw a motorcycle into a jeep and crumpled the jeep. He's got tons of strength/durability feats that put him out of Legolas' league.

Thought this would be a huge fight for Cap since he is fighting someone that is faster, far more agile and is possessing arrows and bladed weapons.

Originally posted by carver9
Thought this would be a huge fight for Cap since he is fighting someone that is faster, far more agile and is possessing arrows and bladed weapons.

Motorcycle throw>legolas

Originally posted by carver9
Thought this would be a huge fight for Cap since he is fighting someone that is faster, far more agile and is possessing arrows and bladed weapons.

Going by his fight with Bolg, Legolas isn't outside Cap's ability to fight with. In fact his fight with Bucky seemed to be far more fast paced and intense compared of the slugfest that Legolas had. And Cap goes up against guys with laser blasters and guns, never taking a hit.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Motorcycle throw>legolas

Don't understand what that has to do with this fight since Le can obviously hurt Cap. Both can hurt each other here.

Originally posted by KingD19
Going by his fight with Bolg, Legolas isn't outside Cap's ability to fight with. In fact his fight with Bucky seemed to be far more fast paced and intense compared of the slugfest that Legolas had. And Cap goes up against guys with laser blasters and guns, never taking a hit.

They fought in a tight area and Bolg is obviously stronger than Cap imo. These are elite monsters (that I would put physically above Bucky and Cap) and Bolg was armored from head to toe. Wouldn't count that as something to hold against Le.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't understand what that has to do with this fight since Le can obviously hurt Cap. Both can hurt each other here.

Cap is stronger, more durable, has a accelerated healing factor and has his shield. Since when did you start hating on CA?

Originally posted by carver9
They fought in a tight area and Bolg is obviously stronger than Cap imo. These are elite monsters (that I would put physically above Bucky and Cap) and Bolg was armored from head to toe. Wouldn't count that as something to hold against Le.

Bolg is stronger than Cap? What feats do the Uruk have as individuals or a group that puts them above Cap and Bucky?

Because Cap has 2 solo movies and soon to be 2 team movies showcasing his strength as being above any humanoid in LoTR/Hobbit.

I can list them and we can compare strength/durability feats if you want.

Also fighting in a tight area shouldn't have impacted Legolas' speed. As for the armor, Red Skull dented reinforced steel with a single punch so... Cap punched through reinforced submarine glass as well.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Cap is stronger, more durable, has a accelerated healing factor and has his shield. Since when did you start hating on CA?

So Le can't hurt Cap?

Everything you said might be true about Cap's abilities but Le is faster and far more agile with BLADED weapons and arrows. I don't hate Cap, I just think this would be a good fight.

Originally posted by carver9
They fought in a tight area and Bolg is obviously stronger than Cap imo.

Which feats does he have that are putting Cap lifting steel frame of Hellicarrier?

Originally posted by carver9
So Le can't hurt Cap?

Everything you said might be true about Cap's abilities but Le is faster and far more agile with BLADED weapons and arrows. I don't hate Cap, I just think this would be a good fight.

He's blocked sustained automatic machine gun fire with his shield. You think Leg is getting an arrow on him?

Originally posted by KingD19
Bolg is stronger than Cap? What feats do the Uruk have as individuals or a group that puts them above Cap and Bucky?

Because Cap has 2 solo movies and soon to be 2 team movies showcasing his strength as being above any humanoid in LoTR/Hobbit.

I can list them and we can compare strength/durability feats if you want.

Also fighting in a tight area shouldn't have impacted Legolas' speed. As for the armor, Red Skull dented reinforced steel with a single punch so... Cap punched through reinforced submarine glass as well.

Never said Le was stronger than Cap. I can't remember the martial artist guy name that fought against Cap in the second movie but that wasn't a good showing for Cap, at all. That guy wouldn't last a second against Bolg and would get brushed off. You also have the elevator scene. Le has been in far worse predicaments and stomped with hundreds of trained monsters surround him. You bringing up one showing doesn't out weight the things Cap has went through that is below Le facing Borg.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
He's blocked sustained automatic machine gun fire with his shield. You think Leg is getting an arrow on him?

Can't believe you are comparing those shooters to Le arrow skills. There's no comparison, at all.

Originally posted by carver9
Can't believe you are comparing those shooters to Le arrow skills. There's no comparison, at all.

Automatic weapons>arrows

Originally posted by KingD19
Cap threw a motorcycle into a jeep and crumpled the jeep. He's got tons of strength/durability feats that put him out of Legolas' league.

Can we even count this yet? I mean we don't see the full circumstances surrounding that feat. For all we know it happened in a Scarlet Witch induced hallucination.

Not trying to downplay Cap at all, if the feat is legit then more power to him, I'm just not a fan of using trailer feats when we've all been fooled by trailers in the past.

Originally posted by carver9
Never said Le was stronger than Cap. I can't remember the martial artist guy name that fought against Cap in the second movie but that wasn't a good showing for Cap, at all. That guy wouldn't last a second against Bolg and would get brushed off. You also have the elevator scene. Le has been in far worse predicaments and stomped with hundreds of trained monsters surround him. You bringing up one showing doesn't out weight the things Cap has went through that is below Le facing Borg.

You mean when he thought Batroc was fodder like his soldiers who Cap took out instantly? Then when he got serious he took Batroc out just as fast? He didn't last a second against Cap when he stopped f*cking around.

Or how he was literally stuck to the elevator wall with a magnet, getting zapped with military grade cattle prods and still took down 11-13 highly trained agents with pretty much one arm stuck above his head in a few moments, and also was perfectly fine after? Then he jumped a few dozen stories out of a building, hit the ground and got right up?

Originally posted by KingD19
You mean when he thought Batroc was fodder like his soldiers who Cap took out instantly? Then when he got serious he took Batroc out just as fast? He didn't last a second against Cap when he stopped f*cking around.

Or how he was literally stuck to the elevator wall with a magnet, getting zapped with military grade cattle prods and still took down 11-13 highly trained agents with pretty much one arm stuck above his head in a few moments, and also was perfectly fine after? Then he jumped a few dozen stories out of a building, hit the ground and got right up?

2 minutes and 50 seconds. Look

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5qRQTLhuE

He gets stabbed twice in a one on one fight by a shield agent. Again, the comparison of the scene you are using with Le fighting a super human armored completely up doesn't compare.

It was still a fight between Cap and Batroc (couldn't remember that). Cap just took him out like he should've done. This scene wouldn't have happened at all with Le.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=giBNXb16t3I

Fight would've been over with in seconds.

By stabbed you mean stunned right?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
By stabbed you mean stunned right?

Yep. Replace that scene with bladed weapons though. Cap probably would've died from that one guy.

Originally posted by carver9
Yep. Replace that scene with bladed weapons though. Cap probably would've died from that one guy.

So then that shield guy>Winter Soldier?

Because TWS didn't get a single knife attack on him.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So then that shield guy>Winter Soldier?

Because TWS didn't get a single knife attack on him.

Not saying that. I brought that up because King brought up Borg even though during Le and Borg first fight, Borg was getting handled and he had a group of monsters helping him. Then he ran.

And he'd been charged with at that point probably several hundred thousand volts of electricity.

Where did you get that from?

Originally posted by carver9
Not saying that. I brought that up because King brought up Borg even though during Le and Borg first fight, Borg was getting handled and he had a group of monsters helping him. Then he ran.

Oh man this post is so good I might have to concede.

Show me an instance of Cap running from anyone above him?

Thor? nope, Loki? nope.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Oh man this post is so good I might have to concede.

Show me an instance of Cap running from anyone above him?

Thor? nope, Loki? nope.

Cap didn't run, Borg ran. What I'm saying is, the fight King mentioned had some context imo and during Borg and Le first scuffle, Borg was on the losing end, even with help.

Originally posted by carver9
Where did you get that from?

The fact that he was getting jabbed with those high tech cattle prods. Normal cattle prods can put out over 30,000 volts. Those were high tech, military grade and definitely put out a whole lot more. Especially since they were trying to use them to subdue Cap of all people. Do you think they'd use normal tazers when regular people can shrug those off?

Originally posted by KingD19
The fact that he was getting jabbed with those high tech cattle prods. Normal cattle prods can put out over 30,000 volts. Those were high tech, military grade and definitely put out a whole lot more. Especially since they were trying to use them to subdue Cap of all people. Do you think they'd use normal tazers when regular people can shrug those off?

Its obvious they were not trying to kill him. Looked more on the subdue side so inputting anymore than what we know of is debatable since again, they were trying to cage him rather than kill him. Then Cap suit probably absorbed most of that attack.

Originally posted by carver9
Its obvious they were not trying to kill him. Looked more on the subdue side so inputting anymore than what we know of is debatable since again, they were trying to cage him rather than kill him.

So by sending a swat team, tws, and a hellicarrier after him wasn't trying to kill him?

Originally posted by carver9
Its obvious they were not trying to kill him. Looked more on the subdue side so inputting anymore than what we know of is debatable since again, they were trying to cage him rather than kill him. Then Cap suit probably absorbed most of that attack.

I know they were trying to capture him at first. It's why they used stun rods instead of just trying to shoot him in the elevator. And an easy way of subduing someone is electricity. And for a guy who is enhanced like Cap, they knew that normal voltages wouldn't do anything. These guys had full access to Cap's personal files so they knew what they needed adn it still wasn't enough.

And what evidence is there to Cap's suit absorbing the electricity? He certainly seemed to feel it and he'd have no reason for it to be insulated against electricity.

Originally posted by KingD19
I know they were trying to capture him at first. It's why they used stun rods instead of just trying to shoot him in the elevator. And an easy way of subduing someone is electricity. And for a guy who is enhanced like Cap, they knew that normal voltages wouldn't do anything. These guys had full access to Cap's personal files so they knew what they needed adn it still wasn't enough.

And what evidence is there to Cap's suit absorbing the electricity? He certainly seemed to feel it and he'd have no reason for it to be insulated against electricity.

The wouldn't know what would kill him or not. I just think there is more evidence to be needed than us just guessing here.

Going by physics here. Rubber vs Electricity.

Cap throwing the motorcycle doesnt count, if you watch the trailer the throw is achieved my momentum, not brute strength

At great range, I'd probably give it to Legolas. His aim with bow and arrow is uncanny, so he could probably put enough arrows in Cap to slow him down and then go in with him long knives after Cap is weakened.

Up close. Cap would wreck him, but come out bloody.

Originally posted by relentless1
Cap throwing the motorcycle doesnt count, if you watch the trailer the throw is achieved my momentum, not brute strength

He's already lifted a motorcycle over his head in his first movie, with 3 women sitting on it. And even though it was moving, he still had to flip over, land on his feet and throw it hard enough to destroy a jeep. You can't try to downplay that by saying he used momentum. Unless you think a normal person can do the same thing as long as they have the appropriate momentum.

H2h Legolas would win, he's got daggers and he's very hard to tag, I could see him artfully dodging or parrying all of Caps attacks, ranged goes to Legolas, sure Cap has blocked machine gun fire but it was all aimed at one location, Legolas isn't going to shoot the same place twice and he certainly isn't aiming for that shield, he'd hit an arm or a leg before Cap gets to him

Originally posted by relentless1
Cap throwing the motorcycle doesnt count, if you watch the trailer the throw is achieved my momentum, not brute strength

Just watched it again. Seems like the speed the motorcycle is travelling is slightly slower than the speed Cap throws it at. So while he used the momentum it had, it's still a show of agility and super-human strength to flip the bike up and throw it flying forward.

ie it does indeed "count" as a film feat

Originally posted by relentless1
H2h Legolas would win, he's got daggers and he's very hard to tag, I could see him artfully dodging or parrying all of Caps attacks,

Cap **** stomps Legolas in h2h. He is far stronger and far faster.

Watching the motorcycle scene again, hard to tell for sure, but it looks like Cap hits the brakes, uses the momentum transferred to flip himself over and then lifts and throws the bike using mostly all brute strength.

I'd say Cap is stronger than Legolas by as much as Legolas is more agile than Cap. Legolas would probably struggle with lifting a motorcycle and 3 women above his head and Cap would struggle scaling and taking down the war mammoth on his own.

At a distance, Legolas has the advantage. Cap hasn't faced a marksman as good as Legolas and the elf will have multiple arrows on hand whereas Cap will only have his shield. Throwing the shield won't be wise since Legolas is probably nimble enough to avoid it.

Melee could go either way. I think Cap is more skilled h2h and stronger, but it will be the first time he's fought someone as nimble as the elf utilizing 2 swords against him. I'd like to say Cap will win due to his slightly more impressive melee feats, but it's too close to call. From experience I can say that 2 swords are a lot harder to fight against than 1 shield.

H2h is Cap's best option. The only h2h feat I recall for Legolas was his fight against Bolg. And while it was a great display of strength, it can't match Cap's showings in skill. Legolas will put up a fight but Cap eventualy wrecks him.

He had some beastly h2h here as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nM7byUTrSZA

Most of those were melee with weapons, not strictly h2h as in unarmed combat.

Yes. H2H and Melee are two different things. That brawl between Legolas and Bolg was H2H for the most part.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Most of those were melee with weapons, not strictly h2h as in unarmed combat.

Agreed. Don't think we have anything of him using h2h. Mainly swords and arrows.

Originally posted by KingD19
Yes. H2H and Melee are two different things. That brawl between Legolas and Bolg was H2H for the most part.

True. Don't think he could beat Cap in straight up h2h which is the reason I gave him all of his equipment.

Cap eats this fruit alive.

So yeah, I stick by my original view.

Long range: Legolas wins
Melee w/ weapons: Toss up
H2H: Cap wins

Originally posted by FrothByte
So yeah, I stick by my original view.

Long range: Legolas wins
Melee w/ weapons: Toss up
H2H: Cap wins But Cap could block the arrows and just close in.

He was blocking bullets from Bucky at point blank range with that shield.

Originally posted by Mindset
But Cap could block the arrows and just close in.

He's never faced as skilled a marksman as Legolas so although I'm sure he can block most of the arrows, I doubt he can block all. Plus, Legolas can just dance away to keep distance and when he runs out of arrows he can double back and pick some up.

That's assuming of course that Legolas is smart enough to keep his distance. He's probably arrogant enough to go to melee with Cap. Cap's biggest risk is if decides to shield throw. Legolas would dodge that and then Cap would be weaponless.

Until the shield bounces off something and cracks Legolas in the back of the head.

The shield is not a homing rocket. Cap uses angles to compute where it goes. If it misses its target the first time it's not like Mjolnir that will just come back at you.

Originally posted by FrothByte
He's never faced as skilled a marksman as Legolas so although I'm sure he can block most of the arrows, I doubt he can block all. Plus, Legolas can just dance away to keep distance and when he runs out of arrows he can double back and pick some up.

That's assuming of course that Legolas is smart enough to keep his distance. He's probably arrogant enough to go to melee with Cap. Cap's biggest risk is if decides to shield throw. Legolas would dodge that and then Cap would be weaponless. Winter Soldier is a skilled marksman and he uses a gun.

Bullet > arrow

I doubt Cap would throw the shield while being attacked with arrows.

Originally posted by Mindset
Winter Soldier is a skilled marksman and he uses a gun.

Bullet > arrow

I doubt Cap would throw the shield while being attacked with arrows.

Did Cap block sustained fire from Winter Soldier? He blocked a few shots and that was it. Besides, what accuracy feats does WS have that compare to Legolas?

Originally posted by FrothByte
So yeah, I stick by my original view.

Long range: Legolas wins
Melee w/ weapons: Toss up
H2H: Cap wins

i can almost agree with that, h2h is the toss up and melee goes to legolas, same with range IMO

You fools are crazy if you think Legolas has a chance against Cap in H2H. Like retarded-level crazy.

Melee, only way Legolas wins is if Cap is already slowed down from having a shit-ton of arrows pumped into him. The guy can keep fighting after taking Chitauri laser blast, being shot and stabbed, Legoals isn't hurting him fast enough before Cap smashes.

Edit: Guess Legolas could get a lucky throat-strike with a long knife and end it fast enough before Cap breaks his shield off in the elf's ass. But that's a big maybe.

I'm unsure if Cap can hit Legolas in melee without exposing himself to cuts and thrusts. Cap looks like he hits harder but the swords are more lethal. Cap survived a laser and gunshot to the side but a single sword thrust through the face or heart is not something he's walking away from.

Agree, as I pointed above, a clean killing stroke would end Cap. But I don't see that happening before Cap smashes the Elf.

Also of note: Cap has super-strength (so does Legolas, but not nearly as high) and a nigh-unbreakable shield that has on several occasions cut into metal. IMO, Legolas' knives have a good chance of breaking during the exchange.

Originally posted by carver9
Both get standard equipment.

Who is winning this?

Legolas

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130627111817/lotr/images/d/da/Legolas_portrait_-_EmpireMag.jpg

Orcrist?

Cap is stronger but not so much stronger that a single shield bash will KO legolas. Cap will definitely hurt Legolas but the swords will still do more damage per hit than the shield or Cap's fists or feet.

To be able to win melee Cap needs to make sure he avoids majority of Legolas' s blows while at the same time landing multiple blows of his own. Considering how fast Legolas is with those swords then its definitely a questionable win for Cap

You're saying there's going to be a lot of blowing in this match. Agreed.

With long pointy things, yes.

Legolas is way too fast and agile for Cap to land a solid hit, he'd wrap himself around Caps arm as he punched and give him a frakensteiner or some shit like that. Even if he did land one or two, they aren't KOing Legolas because we've seen him take punishment from Bolg who's at least as strong a hitter as Cap. Face it captards, your boy loses this one, he's outmaneuvered and outclassed, he may have a strength advantage but as Goku once said: " what good is strength if you can't hit your opponent??"

Good job letting everyone know you're retarded

If we're Captards...does that make Relentless a Legoloser?

Originally posted by Robtard
Good job letting everyone know you're retarded

good one, say something derogatory and completely off topic just because you can't come up with a solid argument to counter mine

Originally posted by relentless1
good one, say something derogatory and completely off topic just because you can't come up with a solid argument to counter mine

That's pretty much exactly what you did. Bolg is not at least as strong as Cap. When we see Bolg tossing motorcycles, denting steel, tossing guys 20 feet while in water, or casually backhanding Chitauri 20 feet away, then we can talk.

i dunno man, Bolg was casually smashing rock like it was paper in his last fight with legolas, seems pretty strong to me

You mean he was hitting stones that were centuries old and already crumbling around them? That entire bridge/walkway was falling apart as they fought. I'm not saying he's not strong, I'm saying he's not as strong as Cap like you claim, because based on feats shown by Cap in 3, soon to be 4 movies next month, he's not.

Also you say Legolas is fast, and he is, but Bolg is slow as all outdoors and he was keeping up with Legolas fine for both fights until the end of the second one when he suddenly became lighter than air.

He did smack one chunk of rock with his mace and it broke, but destroying decaying rock with a heavy ass weapon is not as impressive as denting solid steel with your fist.

When did Cap dent solid steel?

Originally posted by FrothByte
When did Cap dent solid steel?

Red Skull dented Cap's shield when they fought in his base. Punched a nice sized dent in it. And for all intents and purposes they were equal as they both took the Super Soldier Serum. Well, Cap is probably even stronger as he was the only successful subject of the SSS. Skull took the prototype serum.

Ah good point. But then again I never considered Cap's first shield as pure solid steel. Don't have any proof to that though.

Caps first shield was a prop, not really that good a feat if you ask me

It was a real shield, as he used it to block bullets and debris from explosions. If it was a prop, Steve wouldn't have taken it into battle with him. Red Skull would have destroyed it with that punch. Instead he just left a big dent and it rang out like he just dented metal.

9YG6z7RZd3k

Skip to 35 seconds and tell me that's a prop. Lol.

its a prop in the sense that while it was actually made of metal, it wasn't prepared and created to be used in battle

Legolas can win all the gold medals in gymnastics he wants. Doesn't change the fact that Cap completely knocks him out with a punch.

Seriously, the idea that Legolas is some untouchable warrior is completely unfounded and straight up contradicted by his fight with Bolg. Cap lays him out with a single shield bash. It's an absolute stomp in melee combat.

With a bow and enough distance Legolas may take it though. Not really sure on that one.

No Legolas is definitely not getting KO'd by one hit. Bolg is an 8' undead monstrosity whom has smashed stone, casually tossed around other Orcs and has stomped Kili and Tauriel in their fight.

Legolas has taken hard beatings in fights and has only so much as a bleeding nose to show for it. PJ's Legolas is meant to be a ridiculously 'bad ass' hero throughout both trilogies.

He is a very strong, durable, agile and fast combatant with immense skills in both swordsmanship and marksmanship the likes of which Cap has never faced.

First Bolg is not an "undead monstrosity" he's an Orc. Second, while he has defeated dwarves and is a mighty warrior he was seen getting beaten down by Dwalin in the Battle of Azanulbizar. I also don't remember him "shattering stone". Rather he was knocking off bricks on a bridge that was literally crumbling under his feet. He did throw a small boulder though. That was pretty good.

Cap, however, is far stronger and far faster. We've just seen him flip and throw a motorcycle, IIRC he has thrown people dozens of feet, and he has fought evenly with guys who can dent metal with his fist. Legolas isn't taking a full in hit from this guy and remaining conscious.

There's no single proof out there to prove that Cap can KO Legolas with one hit. Heck, Legolas has never even come close to getting KO'd.

It will take Cap multiple hits to KO Legolas.. whereas Legolas only needs one good hit to end Cap.

Keep in mind Cap's shield is sharp enough to cut Legolas. He chopped off a Chitauri's arm with it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
There's no single proof out there to prove that Cap can KO Legolas with one hit. Heck, Legolas has never even come close to getting KO'd.

It will take Cap multiple hits to KO Legolas.. whereas Legolas only needs one good hit to end Cap.

Sure there is. Legolas has never shown taking a hit as strong as what Cap can put out.

Originally posted by ares834
Sure there is. Legolas has never shown taking a hit as strong as what Cap can put out.

Lol. Cap is strong but please stop making him look like he's Thor. He had to hit some of those agents in the elevator multiple times to KO them. He also shield bashed Batroc and Batroc just got back up. You need to provide proof that he can easily KO Legolas with one hit. You know the rule here, post a valid screen feat to support your claims otherwise it won't fly.

Him punching Legolas in the face is not as lethal as Legolas putting a sword through his face.

Flipping a motorcycle and smashing a car with it.

Originally posted by ares834
First Bolg is not an "undead monstrosity" he's an Orc. Second, while he has defeated dwarves and is a mighty warrior he was seen getting beaten down by Dwalin in the Battle of Azanulbizar. I also don't remember him "shattering stone". Rather he was knocking off bricks on a bridge that was literally crumbling under his feet. He did throw a small boulder though. That was pretty good.

Cap, however, is far stronger and far faster. We've just seen him flip and throw a motorcycle, IIRC he has thrown people dozens of feet, and he has fought evenly with guys who can dent metal with his fist. Legolas isn't taking a full in hit from this guy and remaining conscious.

According to PJ canon, Sauron enlisted Azog with the price of bringing Bolg back to life. Hence the enormous chunks of steel stuck in his body and head.

He punches a brick falling through mid-air and it shatters IIRC. Also Legolas has over-powered Bolg twice. At the Battle of the Hornburg Legolas is seen dead lifting via rope Aragorn(wearing chainmail) and Gimli(also wearing chainmail) with little apparent effort on his part. He also didn't appear to have much help if any at all.

Speaking of physical feats, he along with Aragorn and Gimli spent three days straight hunting the Uruk-hai and Legolas didn't even appear tired.

He has never shown anything but extreme physical feats that contradict your assumption that Cap can KO him in one hit, something he almost never does to lesser opponents in his own films.

Originally posted by ares834
Flipping a motorcycle and smashing a car with it.

You mean him flipping a motorcycle that was already at speed and adding his strength to it's momentum? Don't see how that proves he can KO Legolas with one hit.

As I mentioned, he shield bashed Batroc and Batroc just got up. He hit Batroc multiple times before he was able to KO Batroc.

The amount to flip a motorcycle that is ridiculous. He also smashed a car door with a drop kick in a new commercial (been awhile since I saw the movies hence why I'm using feats from he commercials).

As for Batroc, that just means he can take hits better than Legolas.

Originally posted by AncientPower
According to PJ canon, Sauron enlisted Azog with the price of bringing Bolg back to life. Hence the enormous chunks of steel stuck in his body and head.

He punches a brick falling through mid-air and it shatters IIRC. Also Legolas has over-powered Bolg twice. At the Battle of the Hornburg Legolas is seen dead lifting via rope Aragorn(wearing chainmail) and Gimli(also wearing chainmail) with little apparent effort on his part. He also didn't appear to have much help if any at all.

Speaking of physical feats, he along with Aragorn and Gimli spent three days straight hunting the Uruk-hai and Legolas didn't even appear tired.

He has never shown anything but extreme physical feats that contradict your assumption that Cap can KO him in one hit, something he almost never does to lesser opponents in his own films.

I'm going to need a source for the Bolg nonsense.

A decent feat from Legolas. But it pales in comparison to what Cap has done.

Sure, he has amazing stamina. I've never disagreed.

Cap ultimately has strength feats that completely exceed anything that Legolas has taken. Like I said a full on hit will KO him.

I think it's Desolation of Smaug commentary.

A decent feat further reinforcing the contradictory nature of your belief that Legolas can be one hit KO'd by Cap. Not once has Legolas been injured badly in combat, he is far too fast and agile to be taken so easily.

Show me an instance in which Steve has one hit KO'd any body with physical feats the level of Legolas. I won't bother waiting because I've seen The First Avenger, Avengers Assemble and Winter Soldier dozens of times, no such feat exists.

Better yet show me an instance where Cap has faced and beaten so easily a Legolas tier or better opponent in physical combat. Bucky? nope, he's been on the losing end of all their confrontations. Red Skull? Nope that was also a very hard fight. Loki? Beat Rogers whilst wanting to be captured. He has knocked out two actual characters whom were nothing but background characters, neither of them compare to Legolas.

Cap crushes in h2h. Rob's on point.

Cap also gives better speeches than any elf or dwarf. He'd be a legend in LOTR lore.

I've got my doubts about Bolg. But whatever it's ultimately pretty inconquisential.

Legolas is fairly strong sure. That doesn't mean he can take a hit though. And certainly not one from Cap.

MOS Superman has also no feats of knocking Legolas-tier characters out with a hit. Of course he could easily do it (and far more) because of his strength feats. It's the same with Cap (albeit far less extreme.) His strength feats outclass anything Legolas has taken.

Superman laughably out-strips Cap in strength, he was knocking around Kryptonians and outright snapped Zod's neck. That in of itself is greater than anything Legolas or the Cap can claim.

Poor comparison friend, Captain has knocked out two actual characters and neither of them are Legolas tier. In fights against other genuine characters he has never one hit KO'd them or gotten anywhere close to a dominating performance. Your stance simply has no leg to stand on.

Nope the comparison works. It's an extreme example nothing more. We know how strong Cap is and how durable Legolas is. By comparing this we see that Cap lays him out with one solid shield bash. That he rarely knocks people out in a hit doesn't contradict his other feats. They can be chalked down to either PIS or that he doesn't put everything into his punches every time.

You are using outlier feats and a trailer clip to support your KO argument, that is the issue. You are also repeatedly assuming Cap is strong enough to KO Legolas when Bolg who really can't be that much lesser in strength could only give him a bloody nose and did nothing more in combat.

You are also assuming a fight where Legolas does exactly what Rogers would want him to do. I can easily argue that Cap throws his shield, Legolas ducks it with ease and Rogers is shot in the face. Given how regularly Cap does this in combat it is an equally viable argunent but based in far less assumptions than your own.

As I've said before, I'm talking about a strictly melee confrontation. Give Legolas his bow and some distance and I honestly have no clue who wins.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by KingD19
Keep in mind Cap's shield is sharp enough to cut Legolas. He chopped off a Chitauri's arm with it.

Not sure if "sharp" is the correct word, Cap is just strong enough to use to cut up to metal with it. Steel cabinets, cables, aircraft plating.

H2H and melee Cap takes this. Too strong and too durable. Legolas might be faster and more agile, but not by enough to offset the shield advantage.

Distance, well... Cap has survived machine gun fire, but Legolas is a superb archer. If he can keep his distance (which he should be able to) then he only has to get through Cap's defense once to store a hit. Even if it's not fatal, enough hits should eventually slow Cap down through blood loss.

So, distance I'll give the advantage to Legolas - it's his specialty and if Cap tries to use his shield it will leave him wide open. But in melee and H2H Cap is a beast - able to literally tear Legolas apart.

The Cap wank is strong here.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
H2H and melee Cap takes this. Too strong and too durable. Legolas might be faster and more agile, but not by enough to offset the shield advantage.

Distance, well... Cap has survived machine gun fire, but Legolas is a superb archer. If he can keep his distance (which he should be able to) then he only has to get through Cap's defense once to store a hit. Even if it's not fatal, enough hits should eventually slow Cap down through blood loss.

So, distance I'll give the advantage to Legolas - it's his specialty and if Cap tries to use his shield it will leave him wide open. But in melee and H2H Cap is a beast - able to literally tear Legolas apart.

Shield advantage? Two swords is a far bigger advantage in melee than 1 shield. Cap's durability won't mean much when you're facing sharp weapons.

Originally posted by ares834
The amount to flip a motorcycle that is ridiculous. He also smashed a car door with a drop kick in a new commercial (been awhile since I saw the movies hence why I'm using feats from he commercials).

As for Batroc, that just means he can take hits better than Legolas.

Dude, you hit the front breaks on a motorcycle that's going at a decent speed and it will flip itself. Granted, Cap added his own strength to that but let's not pretend it was purely his strength that powered that. Basic physics here.

As for Batroc, let's face it: you have no counter-argument to my proof that Cap can't always one shot his opponents. So the only thing you can come up with is "Batroc is more durable that Legolas, duh". That's a pathetic argument and you know it.

I gave you proof that Cap can't one shot Legolas. If you still believe he can then it's up to you to provide proof.

Two swords won't mean much when you're simply sent flying through the air to get crushed against a wall by a bigger, stronger, unstoppable opponent charging at you behind an unbreakable shield.

Legolas's only chance for a win is to get as far away from Cap as possible. Once Cap is close enough to get his hands on him, it's game over.

Apparently Captain America stomps all because he's unstoppable. He is of course completely stoppable but for some reason we are ignoring that.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Dude, you hit the front breaks on a motorcycle that's going at a decent speed and it will flip itself. Granted, Cap added his own strength to that but let's not pretend it was purely his strength that powered that. Basic physics here.

As for Batroc, let's face it: you have no counter-argument to my proof that Cap can't always one shot his opponents. So the only thing you can come up with is "Batroc is more durable that Legolas, duh". That's a pathetic argument and you know it.

I gave you proof that Cap can't one shot Legolas. If you still believe he can then it's up to you to provide proof.

Not like that. Doing so flips it over the front wheel. Cap was responsible for lifting it as it rotates over himself. He also greatly accelerated the speed.

Ah, no. Batroc taking hits from Cap is a better durability feat then anything Legolas has shown (or Cap wasn't giving it his all). That mean he has higher proven durabilty the Legolas. That's how these debates work via feats. ***** and moan about it all you want but via feats Batroc's durability is better.

Quite simply, Cap has shown vastly greater strength than anything Legolas has been shown to handle.

Except for Bolg whom you seem to believe is a generic Orc, not an 8ft walking muscle with shards of steel sticking out of him. His strength is absolutely immense, but even bear hugging Legolas and attempting to crush him didn't work, he headbutted out of it and kicked Bolg's ass.

Yawn. Never said he was a normal Orc. And yes he is strong. Not dent metal with fist strong though.

Absence of evidence does not work, Bolg denting steel is more than plausible.

Originally posted by ares834
Not like that. Doing so flips it over the front wheel. Cap was responsible for lifting it as it rotates over himself. He also greatly accelerated the speed.

Ah, no. Batroc taking hits from Cap is a better durability feat then anything Legolas has shown (or Cap wasn't giving it his all). That mean he has higher proven durabilty the Legolas. That's how these debates work via feats. ***** and moan about it all you want but via feats Batroc's durability is better.

Quite simply, Cap has shown vastly greater strength than anything Legolas has been shown to handle.

Batroc is a normal human, and Cap was unable to KO him with a single hit. And the conclusion you drew from that is that Legolas has less durability than a normal human. Riiight. Batroc withstanding blows from Cap is not proof that Batroc somehow has superhuman durability, its proof that Cap doesn't hit as hard as you want to believe.

Again... you have no feats to back up your claim. In fact, you have zero proof that shows that Cap can KO Legolas with one hit. Go ahead, give me on screen feats that show Cap knocking out someone of Legolas' strength level with one hit or a feat of someone Cap's strength or lower knocking out Legolas with one hit. Until you provide such proof, all you have is your wishful thinking. On screen feats is what works here, not your silly little opinions.

When Cap charges Batroc with his shield, he sends him flying through the air about fifteen feet. And Batroc is bigger and heavier than Legolas.

From the time he puts away his shield and drops his mask, it takes Cap less than 10 seconds to put Batroc down. Every strike or kick by Batroc is either blocked or avoided during this time. A single elbow strike to the head causes Batroc to stagger back several steps, dazed. A front-flip kick then puts him down, unable to defend himself. The rest is overkill.

Using Batroc as an example of a skilled opponent enduring an assault by Cap is a poor choice.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Batroc is a normal human,

"Normal human" get that shit out of here. The fact that he was taking hits from Cap like that with little harm shows he is clearly beyond "normal human".

Originally posted by FrothByte
Go ahead, give me on screen feats that show Cap knocking out someone of Legolas' strength level with one hit or a feat of someone Cap's strength or lower knocking out Legolas with one hit. Until you provide such proof, all you have is your wishful thinking. On screen feats is what works here, not your silly little opinions.

This is also a shit argument. Once again I bring up my Superman example. Supes never KOs any opponents in the film. Yet clearly he could do so because of his strength feats. The same logic holds for Cap.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
When Cap charges Batroc with his shield, he sends him flying through the air about fifteen feet. And Batroc is bigger and heavier than Legolas.

From the time he puts away his shield and drops his mask, it takes Cap less than 10 seconds to put Batroc down. Every strike or kick by Batroc is either blocked or avoided during this time. A single elbow strike to the head causes Batroc to stagger back several steps, dazed. A front-flip kick then puts him down, unable to defend himself. The rest is overkill.

Using Batroc as an example of a skilled opponent enduring an assault by Cap is a poor choice.

I used Batroc as an example because some people were claiming a single hit from Cap will KO Legolas. I just proved it false. Now I have a question for both you and Ares: Do you think Batroc is stronger and more durable than Legolas?

Originally posted by ares834
"Normal human" get that shit out of here. The fact that he was taking hits from Cap like that with little harm shows he is clearly beyond "normal human".



This is also a shit argument. Once again I bring up my Superman example. Supes never KOs any opponents in the film. Yet clearly he could do so because of his strength feats. The same logic holds for Cap.

He is not an average human, but he is normal. No enhancements and mutations, etc.

Anyway, let me take a step back and ask you this: Do you believe Batroc is stronger or more durable than Legolas?

Originally posted by FrothByte
I used Batroc as an example because some people were claiming a single hit from Cap will KO Legolas. I just proved it false. Now I have a question for both you and Ares: Do you think Batroc is stronger and more durable than Legolas?

I don't know, to be fair. My first instinct is to say yes, but to answer your question I'll have to watch that last Hobbit movie again to see the final fight. I got a bit bored with the movie so I wasn't really paying close attention to all his feats. Give me a few days and I'll be able to give you a more informed answer.

In general fantasy folklore humans are usually a bit stronger and more durable than elves, which is why elves usually prefer to use magic or archery. Getting up close and personal means they lose all their advantages, like their agility and dexterity (unless you're Drizzt, but that's a whole other story). Elves are supposed to be head and shoulders above all the other races when it comes to spells and forest/ranger skills, which includes using the bow and arrow.

Dwarfs are incredibly strong and durable, with almost inexhaustible stamina. That's why they love getting in your face - with their strength and stamina they can wear heavy armour and shrug off blows that would crush an elf. Humans are supposed to be somewhere between - stronger and more durable than elves but less than dwarfs, with better agility and dexterity than dwarfs but less than elves.

But that's mostly going by books, and not just Tolkien's books either, but also a whole lot of other worlds created by authors influenced by Tolkien. I do know that movie Legolas is already beastly compared to book Legolas. Book Legolas, as far as I recall, was reckoned by Tolkien to be pretty much the weakest of the Companions. I think book Aragorn would have probably destroyed book Legolas. But it's also been ages since I read the books.

Movie Legolas, of course, has gotten a lot of love from Jackson, which puts him in a whole other class (in fact, based on that last fight, I think Jackson might be a Drizzt Do'Urden fan as well). So, I guess I'll just have to watch the movie again and try to spot anything that can be used to measure his durability.

For now, though, my answer will have to be: Yes. I think Batroc is probably stronger and more durable than Legolas.

It depends on the lore. Forgotten Realms has humans stronger than elves. Drizzt himself has admitted this. But in Eragon it's mentioned that even the weakest elf is far stronger than the strongest human.

I don't recall how Tolkien elves are, I believe they're stronger than humans but I'm not too familiar. However since we saw Legolas match Bolg in h2h, I think it's safe to say that Legolas is a lot stronger than a human.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It depends on the lore. Forgotten Realms has humans stronger than elves. Drizzt himself has admitted this. But in Eragon it's mentioned that even the weakest elf is far stronger than the strongest human.

I don't recall how Tolkien elves are, I believe they're stronger than humans but I'm not too familiar. However since we saw Legolas match Bolg in h2h, I think it's safe to say that Legolas is a lot stronger than a human.

* Unfortunately I never got into the Eragon series - I think I was a bit too old when they came out. By that time I was more into dark fantasy, like Stephen King's The Dark Tower series.

* I thought there might be a feat of Legolas that could be used to demonstrate his strength in The Two Towers, where he pulled Aragorn and Gimli up a wall using a rope, but it turns out he had help.

* Will try my best to see the Five Armies scene again in the next few days, as that is probably the best scene to scan for feats of strength. Unless you can think of any other scenes?

Elves were created to be perfect, they are better than humans or dwarves in every fashion physically and mentally, they are the finest warriors in middle-earth.

Legolas in the book is so strong that he can use his massive war-bow, supposedly as large as he is and shoot down Orcs in the midst of trees and not miss a shot, despite going down the Anduin in a boat. Problem with the books when it comes to battles is that Tolkien never goes into detail.

Elves are stronger than Numenoreans and they are supposed to be the greatest humans in Middle-Earth.

Sorry Froth, have to call bullshit when I see it. Here you said for us not to pretend BW has enhanced durability because she got swatted by Hulk.


Originally posted by FrothByte
As for surviving a backhand from Hulk, we'll never know since Nyssa is DC. But let's not pretend like BW has some kind of enhanced durability or something.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=610484&pagenumber=1

Clearly you downplay and show bias on any opinion other then your's.


Originally posted by FrothByte
Batroc is a normal human, and Cap was unable to KO him with a single hit. And the conclusion you drew from that is that Legolas has less durability than a normal human. Riiight.
Batroc withstanding blows from Cap is not proof that Batroc somehow has superhuman durability, its proof that Cap doesn't hit as hard as you want to believe.


Then here you downplay Cap's hits and say not only is Batroc has no superhuman durability, but Cap does not hit as hard as we think.

I call bullshit.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Sorry Froth, have to call bullshit when I see it. Here you said for us not to pretend BW has enhanced durability because she got swatted by Hulk.




http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=610484&pagenumber=1

Clearly you downplay and show bias on any opinion other then your's.




Then here you downplay Cap's hits and say not only is Batroc has no superhuman durability, but Cap does not hit as hard as we think.

I call bullshit.

Sorry, but nothing I said there is contradictory. My stance is BW doesn't have enhanced durability because she was never stated to be superhuman or have superhuman durability. The same can be said for Batroc. These people have no superhuman durability. The durability they show in the movies is pretty much standard human action movie durability. Nothing special. How exactly am I contradicting myself or showing bias here? You're the ones attributing to BW and Batroc superpowers that they don't have.

As for Cap, I did not downplay his strength, all I said was that he doesn't hit quite as hard as some of the posters here were trying to make us believe, because someone in here said that he can one-hit KO Legolas easily and all I did was prove that Cap didn't one-hit KO a non-enhanced human. Fact is, even in the fight in the elevator, Cap didn't one-hit KO some of those guys - so let's not pretend that he can easily one-hit KO Legolas. I did not say that Cap wasn't super strong, just that he wasn't as strong as some of you were portraying him to be. They way you guys talked about Cad it's as if he was as strong as Thor.

And please, lay off the trash talk and personal attacks. We're all debating our own opinions here. Just because my opinion doesn't match yours doesn't make me biased and you "correct". I can just as easily call you biased.

Where did I say you contradicted your statements? And what am I being bias about?

Though it isn't ever stated, I wouldn't be surprised if Cap is like comic Spidey and pulls his punches to a degree when he fights humans. Seems like something his boyscout self would do.

I mean consider what he did to that punching bag when he hit it full force in The Avengers. He literally hit it hard enough to punch a hole in it and burst it as it went flying. Also, Red Skill put a massive dent in Cap's first metal shield with a straight punch. That's just two examples of full on super-soldier level striking power. Imagine how a human skull would fare under those conditions. It'd probably be the equivalent of getting smashed in the face by Brock Lesnar wielding a sledgehammer. Those blows would kill someone, never mind KO them.

So based on that, I tend to believe that Cap holds a bit in reserve whenever he fights regular humans.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Where did I say you contradicted your statements? And what am I being bias about?

You're calling me on bullcrap and saying I'm biased. What exactly am I biased about and what bullcrap am I talking about? My stance is that both Black Widow and Batroc are very dangerous peak humans... but they do not possess superhuman capabilities.

Now tell me what exactly is biased about that?

Like I said, downplaying feats. I said you were being bias and ignoring feats that didn't go along with your opinion. Then you turned around and did the "no you" and called me bias. So I'll ask again where did I say your statements contradicted and where am I now being bias?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Like I said, downplaying feats. I said you were being bias and ignoring feats that didn't go along with your opinion. Then you turned around and did the "no you" and called me bias. So I'll ask again where did I say your statements contradicted and where am I know being bias?

I could easily accuse you of overhyping feats. Are you telling me both BW and Batroc have superhuman strength or durability?

That's where your bias is: assigning superpowers to individuals that have none just to back up your opinion.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I could easily accuse you of overhyping feats. Are you telling me both BW and Batroc have superhuman strength or durability?

Quote me saying BW or Batroc had Superhuman strength.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Though it isn't ever stated, I wouldn't be surprised if Cap is like comic Spidey and pulls his punches to a degree when he fights humans. Seems like something his boyscout self would do.

I mean consider what he did to that punching bag when he hit it full force in The Avengers. He literally hit it hard enough to punch a hole in it and burst it as it went flying. Also, Red Skill put a massive dent in Cap's first metal shield with a straight punch. That's just two examples of full on super-soldier level striking power. Imagine how a human skull would fare under those conditions. It'd probably be the equivalent of getting smashed in the face by Brock Lesnar wielding a sledgehammer. Those blows would kill someone, never mind KO them.

So based on that, I tend to believe that Cap holds a bit in reserve whenever he fights regular humans.

Yea it's very obvious he can throttle his strength.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Quote me saying BW or Batroc had Superhuman strength.

Well the fact that you're arguing with me shows that you believe this... or am I mistaken?

Do you believe BW or Batroc has superhuman strength or durability? Because if not then I don't know why you're arguing with me. I believe they have normal human strength and durability. Peak human to be sure... but nothing superhuman.

So do you agree with me o not?

No I don't think they have superhuman strength but it's obvious their durability is above peak human.

Who would win on a fight, Bolg or Batroc or how about Bolg vs the humans on the elevator?

Originally posted by carver9
Who would win on a fight, Bolg or Batrock or how about Bolg vs the humans on the elevator?

You mean Batroc? Do try and spell here and there.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You mean Batroc? Do try and spell here and there.

Lol...you knew who I meant.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
No I don't think they have superhuman strength but it's obvious their durability is above peak human.

So you believe they have superhuman durability? Do you believe that Hawkeye has some degree of super strength since he was able to hurt BW in their match? Do you also believe some of the SHIELD agents in the elevator have superhuman durability since some of them survived more than one hit from Cap?

Follow up question: Do you believe Cap only needs to hit Legolas once to KO him?

Originally posted by FrothByte
So you believe they have superhuman durability? Do you believe that Hawkeye has some degree of super strength since he was able to hurt BW in their match? Do you also believe some of the SHIELD agents in the elevator have superhuman durability since some of them survived more than one hit from Cap?

Follow up question: Do you believe Cap only needs to hit Legolas once to KO him?

Red Herrings all over your posts now as you on the defense and trying to change the original debate.

I already stated that cap can throttle his strength, the rest you are spinning with questions that are loaded questions.

Cap was also holding a car from falling off the edge of a bridge. The car only fell when the bumper snapped off in his hands. It's clear like it's been pointed out that he can do some serious damage if he wanted to. If he hit everybody how he was knocking Bucky around or those Chitauri...his body count would be through the roof.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Red Herrings all over your posts now as you on the defense and trying to change the original debate.

I already stated that cap can throttle his strength, the rest you are spinning with questions that are loaded questions.

My questions are in line with my reasoning, and you don't want to answer them because they'll punch holes all over your stance.

But fine, I just need you to answer the one question: Do you believe that Cap will only need to hit Legolas once to KO him?

As for throttling strength, all of us throttle our strength. It's pretty normal. I don't know what you're trying to prove there.

Originally posted by KingD19
Cap was also holding a car from falling off the edge of a bridge. The car only fell when the bumper snapped off in his hands. It's clear like it's been pointed out that he can do some serious damage if he wanted to. If he hit everybody how he was knocking Bucky around or those Chitauri...his body count would be through the roof.

Unlike Batman, Cap has no hesitation on killing his enemies. It's kinda silly to claim he's pulling his punches against some enemies while he doesn't hesitate to knife others.

I know Cap is strong, I just think you guys are blowing it out of proportion.

If Cap was this strong, why not hit everyone he fought to the point of koing them in one hit without killing them? Don't get it. If I had the strength you all are giving Cap, none of my fights would be long. A single hit should suffice.

The strength people are "giving" Cap, is based on his screen feats. So if you don't like it, blame Marvel for portraying movie Cap as that strong.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The strength people are "giving" Cap, is based on his screen feats. So if you don't like it, blame Marvel for portraying movie Cap as that strong.

Lol

Originally posted by FrothByte
My questions are in line with my reasoning, and you don't want to answer them because they'll punch holes all over your stance.

But fine, I just need you to answer the one question: Do you believe that Cap will only need to hit Legolas once to KO him?

As for throttling strength, all of us throttle our strength. It's pretty normal. I don't know what you're trying to prove there.

No I don't think he one shot him, he will beat him down in a good fight.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The strength people are "giving" Cap, is based on his screen feats. So if you don't like it, blame Marvel for portraying movie Cap as that strong.

I have no problem with the feats. But all of my points are also supported by feats. I never claimed Cap wasn't strong, just not strong enough to one shot Legolas. And again, I backed this up with feats from Cap himself.

Legolas has a massive ranged advantage, he'll be too fast and agile in melee and H2H isn't going to last long enough to make a difference.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
No I don't think he one shot him, he will beat him down in a good fight.

Then we have nothing to disagree on then. I think Cap beats Legolas pretty good in h2h, but melee IMO is still a toss up because Cap's strength is negated by Legolas' s more lethal weapons. Because Legolas can definitely one shot Cap with a clean hit of his long daggers.

Winter Soldier tried to kill Cap with a combat-knife, Cap had something to say about that.

Originally posted by Robtard
Winter Soldier tried to kill Cap with a combat-knife, Cap had something to say about that.

Didn't even have his shield during that fight.

I was referring to the highway fight, Cap did have it for at least part of the fight. Towards the end Cap uses the shield's edge to cut into WS's robo-arm and damage it. Then the fight stops before Cap lowers the boom when he see's WS's face and the long dormant homo-urges resurface.

But yes, iirc, Cap did fend off a knife-wielding WS for a bit with just his skills, reflexes, strength and speed.

Originally posted by Robtard
I was referring to the highway fight, Cap did have it for at least part of it. Towards the end Cap uses the shield's edge to cut into WS's robo-arm and damage it. Then the fight stops before Cap lowers the boom when he see's WS's face and the long dormant homo-urges resurface.

I know. That's what I was talking about. Bucky tossed his shield into the van and Cap took him on hand to hand, then Bucky pulled his knife out and Cap didn't take a single scratch despite not having the shield.

They were also fighting at a much faster pace and with more speed and agility than Legolas seemed to be able to employ against Bolg who despite being absolutely huge and slowed down by having metal running throughout his entire body, kept up with Legolas just fine for most of both their fights.