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Setting: Dantooine plains

No amp/pre time.

Who wins?

Luke. Even Vitiate's recent feats won't save him.

Luke throws his saber. Vitiate dies excellent

Luke Stomps

Luke

Emperor

Luke has a field day compared to his fight with DE Palpatine.

Emperor Vitiate fights differently and Luke is outgunned in this contest.

Emperor Vitiate can't summon Force Storms, instantly corrupt Jedi with his mere presence or duel on anywhere near the level DE Sidious.

DE Luke can Tutaminis AT-AT blasts and destroy them with ease, absorbed in the dark side he is stated to be far stronger with the Dark Side than his father was, whom could also crush AT-ATs with TK well before his prime BTW.

What's the point in responding to LeGenD in a Vitiate, or any TOR, topic?

Anyway, undecided.

Perhaps I get a sick joy out of watching him destroy his own credibility, with gems such as claiming a generic Lord in the Sith Empire is easily Count Dooku and Darth Maul tier.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
What's the point in responding to LeGenD in a Vitiate, or any TOR, topic?
What's your issue?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Emperor Vitiate can't summon Force Storms,
He is stated to have explored the most sinister and uncharted depths of the dark side, he is likely to have knowledge of many powers. Possibility exists for knowledge of even this power.

In his relentless pursuit of immortality, the Emperor explored the most sinister, uncharted depths of the dark side.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Originally posted by AncientPower
instantly corrupt Jedi with his mere presence
Here:

The legendary Jedi Revan and Malak confront the Sith Emperor in his throne room on Dromund Kaas. In mere moments, the Jedi lay defeated and consumed by the dark side of the Force.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

More:

Most Jedi who ventured into Imperial space vanished without a trace, but a few managed to send back disturbing messages to their Masters. These fragmented communiques showed the Emperor's Jedi pursuers descending into fear, madness, and evil when faced with his power. It quickly became clear the Sith Emperor was more then a brilliant military strategist and cunning political leader. He was a living embodiment of the dark side of the Force who delighted in destroying the minds and spirits of those Jedi who came too close to him.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Even more:

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen. His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred. The Emperor can wither and ruin even the strongest Jedi's connection to the light side.

Jedi Master Tol Braga's strike team was not the first group to succumb to the Sith leader's oppressive influence. Hundreds of years ago, the Jedi Revan and Malak discovered Dromund Kaas and confronted the Emperor. They fell to the dark side and returned to Republic space as Sith Lords. Since then, dozens more Jedi have followed the same path into evil.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Emperor's Fallen Jedi (Knight)."

---

Luke is absolutely vulnerable to Emperor's telepathic subjugation. And telepathic powers manifest instantly.

Originally posted by AncientPower
or duel on anywhere near the level DE Sidious.
Emperor Vitiate doesn't needs to be a master swordsman to fell another. He have proven his mettle in many battles.

Originally posted by AncientPower
DE Luke can Tutaminis AT-AT blasts and destroy them with ease, absorbed in the dark side he is stated to be far stronger with the Dark Side than his father was, whom could also crush AT-ATs with TK well before his prime BTW.
What a load of crap.

Luke deflected firepower of an AT-AT using his lightsaber. Also, we cannot know for sure whether pulling this vehicle down was easy for Luke or not from the comic images.

Also, where it is stated that Luke became far stronger with the dark side then his father was? Did Luke surpass Sidious by embracing the dark side? Their confrontation on Byss suggests otherwise.

Also, ability to destroy an AT-AT is somehow an indication that the relevant Force-user > Emperor Vitiate?

Emperor Vitiate's inferiors have history of destroying objects weighing hundreds of tons including gigantic trees, entire buildings, and large rocky formations. An AT-AT isn't much of a benchmark.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Luke

Hyperbole.

Counter-arguing with telepathy? Sidious doesn't need telepathy to turn Jedi into his thralls, his sheer presence corrupts Jedi and scares the living shit out of other extremely powerful Sith Lords.

AT-ATs made of ultra-grade durasteel > Trees and permacrete buildings. Vader with a gesture of his hand Force Crushed an AT-AT to the point it looked like a car in a junkyard.

Vader's apprentice tore an in-flight Star Destroyer out of orbit and literally forced it to crash. His clone then later telekinetically destroyed the engines of a Nebulon frigate whilst defending himself from the actual thrust of the engines themselves.

DE Luke is more powerful than either of them, not only is it stated by numerous characters in Dark Empire but also by Luke himself that he was already stronger than Vader by then.

DE Luke is an absolute monster in the Force easily capable of duking it out with Vitiate. Furthermore he is laughably faster by magnitudes and has lightsaber abilities beyond anything Vitiate has ever seen.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What's your issue?
Because we might as well be trying to reach Andromeda with giant rubber bands and chimps. We all already know your stance on the topic, we've had it billions of times before; what's the point in even trying? You're going to say Vitiate regardless.

Hmm, Ancient makes some pretty good points , while LeGenD makes points as always.

I'm leaning to Luke winning this.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Hyperbole.

Counter-arguing with telepathy? Sidious doesn't need telepathy to turn Jedi into his thralls, his sheer presence corrupts Jedi and scares the living shit out of other extremely powerful Sith Lords.

Proof? I've never seen him do that, only Vitiate and Nihilus have to my knowledge.

Originally posted by AncientPower
AT-ATs made of ultra-grade durasteel > Trees and permacrete buildings. Vader with a gesture of his hand Force Crushed an AT-AT to the point it looked like a car in a junkyard.

You're exaggerating.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Vader's apprentice tore an in-flight Star Destroyer out of orbit and literally forced it to crash. His clone then later telekinetically destroyed the engines of a Nebulon frigate whilst defending himself from the actual thrust of the engines themselves.

They're exaggerating.

Originally posted by AncientPower
DE Luke is more powerful than either of them, not only is it stated by numerous characters in Dark Empire but also by Luke himself that he was already stronger than Vader by then.

DE Luke is an absolute monster in the Force easily capable of duking it out with Vitiate. Furthermore he is laughably faster by magnitudes and has lightsaber abilities beyond anything Vitiate has ever seen.

Exaggerating again. He isn't that much faster.



Anyway, Luke got pwned by Kun after DE, it's possible Vitiate can pull something that he doesn't know the defense for. I'm inclined to back Vitiate.

7:2 in favor of Luke.

That's settled then.

I just think Vitiate is a poor match for Luke. Whereas he could go toe to toe with Sidious and Sidious is like "bring it bro", Vitiate has a crap ton of sorcery and force powers that Luke has little to no experience in combating and won't want to fight Luke on his terms.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
7:2 in favor of Luke.

That's settled then.
Nah. Vitiate/TOR fanbois must have a day off, wait till they come back.

Luke wins, though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Proof? I've never seen him do that, only Vitiate and Nihilus have to my knowledge.

The moment Luke entered his presence he gave up his plan to kill Palpatine from the inside a'la Ulic because DE Sids was that damn strong in the Dark Side.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're exaggerating.

No I am not.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They're exaggerating.

No they aren't, those are novel feats.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Exaggerating again. He isn't that much faster.

He near-speed blitzed Sidious, which is hilariously beyond anything in the TOR era.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anyway, Luke got pwned by Kun after DE, it's possible Vitiate can pull something that he doesn't know the defense for. I'm inclined to back Vitiate.

Luke got attacked by a spirit Kun whom had mastered the technique over thousands of years. Vitiate has only ever attempted TP, FLS or lightsaber attacks in combat, I'd like to see an instance where he hasn't. Even then he would be too busy getting speed-blitzed.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The moment Luke entered his presence he gave up his plan to kill Palpatine from the inside a'la Ulic because DE Sids was that damn strong in the Dark Side.

That's not the same thing.

Originally posted by AncientPower
No I am not.

It was a prolonged force crush, not a gesture and it wasn't that badly damaged. It was sparking a bit from the strain and some small fragments were falling off but it was hardly complete scrap. Luke did the same thing in DE but better anyway, just use that feat.

Originally posted by AncientPower
No they aren't, those are novel feats.

I know.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He near-speed blitzed Sidious, which is hilariously beyond anything in the TOR era.

Wow that's an exaggeration and a half. Sure, Luke's so fast that he can almost speedblitz Sidious but Sidious is so powerful Luke gives up on fighting him right away. Riiiight, makes sense.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Luke got attacked by a spirit Kun whom had mastered the technique over thousands of years. Vitiate has only ever attempted TP, FLS or lightsaber attacks in combat, I'd like to see an instance where he hasn't. Even then he would be too busy getting speed-blitzed.

Kun was asleep for most of those years. He only really had a few years of true darkside mastery against Vitiate's millennia +. And Vitiate used sorcery in his HoT fight, plus TK and barriers in his Revan and HoT fights which you forgot to mention. And we know he's got incredibly vast knowledge of sorcery and esoteric powers that makes other legendary sorcerers look like children, so lets not pretend he's that limited.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I just think Vitiate is a poor match for Luke. Whereas he could go toe to toe with Sidious and Sidious is like "bring it bro", Vitiate has a crap ton of sorcery and force powers that Luke has little to no experience in combating and won't want to fight Luke on his terms.

I agree with this. Besides, Luke wouldn't stand a chance if Sidious summoned his most powerful attacks on him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I just think Vitiate is a poor match for Luke. Whereas he could go toe to toe with Sidious and Sidious is like "bring it bro", Vitiate has a crap ton of sorcery and force powers that Luke has little to no experience in combating and won't want to fight Luke on his terms. i agree with this also. The only time i can remember luke facing sorcery during that time period was in the courtship of princess leia, and he was pretty defenseless against it iirc. Gethzerion almost killed him with sorcery almost effortlessly, and i know shes uber powerful and all but at one point a girl no older than 16, who luke even reffered to as young and weak disarmed him of his lightsaber almost casually while she was on the ground after being force choked.

"She dropped to the ground, looked up at him with rage. Luke could feel her surprise at her own impotence. With a single swatting gesture she cast a spell, knocking the lightsaber from lukes hand."

Those are the only examples i found, but i just flipped thru it real quick after work. If anyone wants the gethzerion quotes let me know and ill post them later after i pick up darth vader 4 (yippeeee)

Sidious's most powerful attack exceeds anything Vitiate has done (including Vit's prep and aid feats).

Also, Kun didn't beat Luke with his own power. He used Kyp's force reserves to empower his attack, which is why The New Essential Guide to Characters credits the feat to Kyps force energy. And Kyp, at the time, was already thought of as having greater raw power than even Luke. Not to mention it happened on a DS nexus. Regardless, that's not a technique Vitiate has ever pulled off, so it's pretty much irrelevant here.

That said, I'm not sure how Luke would defeat a ghost amped by Ziost's DS energies, unless this is Vitiate in physical form before that state, in which case Luke takes this. Luke's defenses are strong enough to handle Vitiate's most potent combat attack, and he is a much faster and greater combatant than anyone Vitiate has dealt with.

Ok, but Luke needed Leia and baby Anakin to stop Sidious' Force Storm so I don't see the relevance of that point.

The book notes that Luke tries a bunch of techniques and none of them work though, doesn't it? It seems to me the issue was at least partially that he lacks knowledge.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ok, but Luke needed Leia and baby Anakin to stop Sidious' Force Storm so I don't see the relevance of that point.

The book notes that Luke tries a bunch of techniques and none of them work though, doesn't it? It seems to me the issue was at least partially that he lacks knowledge.


That was in response to Sinious.

It is irrelevant here, as is Kun's attack.

Oh ok.

Not really, I'm sure Vitiate knows a lot of similar spells or the same one even.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh ok.

Not really, I'm sure Vitiate knows a lot of similar spells or the same one even.


I'm more than sure Sidious does as well. Doesn't mean he could pull it off as effortlessly as Kun, with Kyp's power and a DS nexus, did. Unless this is Vitiate in ghost form on Ziost, but even then, we can't know that he mastered the same technique to a similar degree as Kun just because he knows a lot of spells.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Sidious's most powerful attack exceeds anything Vitiate has done (including Vit's prep and aid feats).

That said, I'm not sure how Luke would defeat a ghost amped by Ziost's DS energies, unless this is Vitiate in physical form before that state, in which case Luke takes this. Luke's defenses are strong enough to handle Vitiate's most potent combat attack, and he is a much faster and greater combatant than anyone Vitiate has dealt with.

So, what, the Vitiate supporters are question Luke's ability to go Ghostbustiing? (Possibly to the famous themesong...)

When luke stomps Vitiate he very well can't destroy his essence.

At least not this iteration of Luke. Vitiate has no chance in an actual all out duel/fight, but he can stalemate Luke via his essence being indestructible.

On an interesting side note while flipping thru courtship, i found this quote which implies that Luke didnt even go all out against vader or palps.

"And there was a further matter. In his battles with Darth Vader and the Emperor, Luke felt he had never truly tested his powers to the limits."

Originally posted by Nephthys
I just think Vitiate is a poor match for Luke. Whereas he could go toe to toe with Sidious and Sidious is like "bring it bro", Vitiate has a crap ton of sorcery and force powers that Luke has little to no experience in combating and won't want to fight Luke on his terms.

Luke absorbed AT-AT bolts before he deflected the blasts.

I believe that quote more referred to THEM holding back. Vader wasn't giving it his all, and Sidious was in a torture zap mood instead of a killing mood.

Yeah, I have that book as well and Luke at one point was getting owned by a Dathomir sister and he said that if Vader was actually serious in killing him could have just made the blood vessels in his brain pop.

Bump.

Still undecided.

I'll say Luke. Just because it's Luke.

Scrub.

Stigma, which incarnation of Vitiate is this? The one that faced Braga strike team or is this his peak?

Assuming the Lord Emperor is at his peak, I'll go him.

Ehh.....DE Luke is so ****ing hard to rate it's ridiculous.

Especially because at that point Sheev had no skill to go off of.

Exactly.
Luke goes from getting obliterated in two pages, to obliterating Palpatine on one page. Some say he was amped by Force Harmony, the second time, but I haven't seen the evidence for that yet. Plus, it's pretty illogical for DE Luke to be anymore powerful than Vader, IMO.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Exactly.
Luke goes from getting obliterated in two pages, to obliterating Palpatine on one page. Some say he was amped by Force Harmony, the second time, but I haven't seen the evidence for that yet. Plus, it's pretty illogical for DE Luke to be anymore powerful than Vader, IMO.

Powerful as in just Force power, or overall? Because Luke was already about as skilled as Vader was in RotJ, and seeing how much he can grow in just a year (ESB to RotJ), I'm going to say half a decade will see some noticeable improvements, and that's going to put him above Vader.

Originally posted by Sinious
Stigma, which incarnation of Vitiate is this? The one that faced Braga strike team or is this his peak?
Let's say peak.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Exactly.
Luke goes from getting obliterated in two pages, to obliterating Palpatine on one page. Some say he was amped by Force Harmony, the second time, but I haven't seen the evidence for that yet. Plus, it's pretty illogical for DE Luke to be anymore powerful than Vader, IMO.
First time Plapatine was on a DS nexus on Byss.

This incarnation of Luke falters before the Immortal Emperor.

LOL

I hear from Quan that you're a broken worm. Why so?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I hear from Quan that you're a broken worm. Why so?
Because I said Khan loses to Sidious, most probably that's the reason.

BTW You talk with Quan? C'mon man, value your time. We all troll for fun once in a while, but Quan is splendid in that regard, and he does it for a living

Are you implying that conversing with Quan will destroy me?

Well, it will give you AIDS.

Originally posted by Stigma
First time Plapatine was on a DS nexus on Byss.
Nexus don't make you a less skilled combatant. Besides, Palpatine carries his nexus with him.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Powerful as in just Force power, or overall? Because Luke was already about as skilled as Vader was in RotJ, and seeing how much he can grow in just a year (ESB to RotJ), I'm going to say half a decade will see some noticeable improvements, and that's going to put him above Vader.

In either, tbh. I'm not convinced Luke's skill increased by a significant degree after RotJ - he had better physical ability, sure - but I don't know ahout skill. He was better, sure but the extent remains to be seen.

DE also shits on Luke's mastery of the force compared to jedi like Kenobi/Yoda.

Luke is definitely above Vader as of DE but since this is peak Vitiate, he destroys with the force. FOTJ Luke is a better opponent for Vitiate tbh.

>Luke is definitely better
>performs barely on the level until the very end where Leia is stated in text to be helping Luke tap into hidden reserves
>my sides shoot into orbit

I mean he can be above Vader, sure, but definitely? Nah.

Inconsistency is not denied tbh.

Ehh.
Vader has better TK showings, superior telepathic showings, comparable defensive capabilities, and has probably displayed more Force powers than Luke at this stage. Luke is faster, and probably more skilled through inference, but I don't really see him as being above Vader because of it.