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Which heralds can defeat The Odinson(With Mjolnir) for the Majority?

DCNU

1)Superman
2)Wonder Woman
3)Orion
4)Captain Marvel
5)Majestic
6)Apollo
7)Green Lantern Hal
8)Martian Manhunter
9)Black Adam
10)Superboy

Marvel

1)Black Bolt
2)Blue Marvel
3)Dr. Strange
4)Gladiator
5)Hulk
6)Hyperion
7)Silver Surfer
8)Wonder Man

Majority of that list is highly debatable. Some are splits but a lot of them are questionable majorities. A lot. It would all be based off of personal opinion.

Originally posted by carver9
Majority of that list is highly debatable. Some are splits but a lot of them are questionable majorities. A lot. It would all be based off of personal opinion.

That's the point of the thread, Carver.

Now, be bold and pick!

What do you think LoB? (interested to see what you think).

Just realized this is DCNU.


1)Superman = Thor 6/10 or split. Lightning has been troublesome for this version of Superman. Electricity period. So Thor could pull a lot of wins here if he plays his cards right.
2)Wonder Woman = Thor 6/10
3)Orion = Thor 7 or 8/10
4)Captain Marvel = Captain Marvel hasn't done a thing yet. Thor gets an overwhelming majority.
5)Majestic = what has Majestic in DCNU done? Giving Thor an overwhelming majority.
6)Apollo = same as Maj.
7)Green Lantern Hal = Thor is his kryptonite.
8)Martian Manhunter = really?
9)Black Adam = Black Adam in DCNU hasn't been looking so great. Thor kills him.
10)Superboy = Thor wins a huge majority but Superboy can pull some wins imo.

Marvel

1)Black Bolt = Thor 7/10
2)Blue Marvel = split
3)Dr. Strange = Strange kills him.
4)Gladiator = Thor 6 or 7/10
5)Hulk = Hulk is Thor kryptonite. Marvel is loving Hulk now.
6)Hyperion = split
7)Silver Surfer = going with Surfer 7/10
8)Wonder Man = Thor wins every single match.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
What do you think LoB? (interested to see what you think).

Since you insist.

DCNU

1)Superman- I think Clark has demonstrated in various battles a clear ability to beat Thor for a majority. His speed gives him a clear advantage and he displays a level of ferocity that would match Thor's agggression.

2) Wonder Woman- Diana has been impressive throught her run in the DCNU. While below, Superman, she is clearly an elite herald in that universe. She will have to uncuff to do it but I see her humbling The Odinson.

3) Orion- A pure counterpoint to Thor in almost every way. It is another close battle but I think the son of Darkseid wins.

4) Captain Marvel- This is the 5.5 match of the group. Billy's appearances don't make it as clear as the rest but by a razor thin margin he wins out.

Marvel

1) Blue Marvel- I think's Adam's speed, strength, and versatility trumps Thor.

2)Dr. Strange- The Sorceror Supreme is back after Bendis' abomination of the character. Thor even admits that Strange is superior to him. (Come at me Thor Corps at your peril!)

3)Hyperion- His speed, strength and durability are unquestionably superior to Thor's.

4) Wonder Man- Yes, Wonder Man. Thor barely beat Simon and I think he would lose a close majority.

5) Silver Surfer- This battle is similar to one that would take place against J'onn. I was debating on whether the Manhunter could pull the majority but decided against it due to his passive nature. Norrin shares the same lack of intensity but makes up for it with his sheer versatility and power.

Thor isn't beating Superman unless we are doing the whole "Superman forgets his speed" thing again, which yeah, Thor can totally defeat a Superman who is not remotely going all out against him. That's not much of an accomplishment for Thor, but hey..you take any kind of win you can right?

Superman
Wonder woman
Martian manhunter
Doc strange
Hulk
Surfer

Originally posted by relentless1
Superman
Wonder woman
Martian manhunter
Doc strange
Hulk
Surfer

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not the same.

By this I mean you listed a lot of people who could beat Thor(or have a shot at beating him) but also one person who absolutely can't. Try to guess which character out of your list is the one least likely to beat Thor.

Majestros and Billy are sorely lacking in feats.

Feel free to include PREBOOT Majestic and Captain Marvel from now on.

All this writing. Sheesh.

DCnu-Superman
Marvel-Dr. Strange

Easy peasy.

Dr Strange, Hulk and Surfer are the only Marvel ones with the chance of taking a majority over Thor

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Dr Strange, Hulk and Surfer are the only Marvel ones with the chance of taking a majority over Thor

I'm assuming this means current Hulk has powers other then his standard super strength and enhanced durability and regeneration then. So what new powers does this version of Hulk have that allow him a shot at Thor? Flight? Energy projection? High level super speed? All of the above? He'll need to be capable of crossing dimensions under his own power as well.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm assuming this means current Hulk has powers other then his standard super strength and enhanced durability and regeneration then. So what new powers does this version of Hulk have that allow him a shot at Thor? Flight? Energy projection? High level super speed? All of the above? He'll need to be capable of crossing dimensions under his own power as well. have you ever read a Hulk/Thor fight?

This isn't CBR nonsense.

Originally posted by Surtur
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not the same.

By this I mean you listed a lot of people who could beat Thor(or have a shot at beating him) but also one person who absolutely can't. Try to guess which character out of your list is the one least likely to beat Thor.

How could we take any of your post serious when you think Surfer could beat Superman 10/10. We don't debate off of powerset here my friend.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Dr Strange, Hulk and Surfer are the only Marvel ones with the chance of taking a majority over Thor

What are Blue Marvel, Hyperion and Wonder Man lacking that disqualifies them from the list?

Thor fts.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
What are Blue Marvel, Hyperion and Wonder Man lacking that disqualifies them from the list? actual battle feats.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
actual battle feats.

1) Blue Marvel- Anti-Man, Sentry, King Hyperion

2) Wonder Man- Hulk, Namor, Thor and The Avengers themselves. Thor had to charge up Mjolnir for one final strike to put Simon down.

3) Hyperion- Casually stomping The Hulk works for me.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
1) Blue Marvel- Anti-Man, Sentry, King Hyperion

2) Wonder Man- Hulk, Namor, Thor and The Avengers themselves. Thor had to charge up Mjolnir for one final strike to put Simon down.

3) Hyperion- Casually stomping The Hulk works for me.

This Hyperion hasn't stomped the Hulk yet.

That was Sun God.

Although I daren't go into any real debate on the Sun God fight.

Originally posted by riv6672
All this writing. Sheesh.

DCnu-Superman
Marvel-Dr. Strange

Easy peasy.

LIES!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
1) Blue Marvel- Anti-Man, Sentry, King Hyperion

2) Wonder Man- Hulk, Namor, Thor and The Avengers themselves. Thor had to charge up Mjolnir for one final strike to put Simon down.

3) Hyperion- Casually stomping The Hulk works for me.

When did Hyperion casually stomp the Hulk?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
1) Blue Marvel- Anti-Man, Sentry, King Hyperion

2) Wonder Man- Hulk, Namor, Thor and The Avengers themselves. Thor had to charge up Mjolnir for one final strike to put Simon down.

3) Hyperion- Casually stomping The Hulk works for me.

BM was tailor made to beat Anti Man and that tactic won't work against Thor. He flash koed Sentry, Thor has done the same. King Hyperion wouldn't beat Thor.


Wonder man loses far more than he wins against Hulk. Lol Namor.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
This Hyperion hasn't stomped the Hulk yet.

That was Sun God.

Although I daren't go into any real debate on the Sun God fight.

Were you able to get that email address or twitter acct for Hickman?

Originally posted by carver9
Were you able to get that email address or twitter acct for Hickman?

Yeah his twitter account is here.

https://twitter.com/jhickman

As far as I can tell though he hasn't revealed his email address.

Originally posted by carver9
When did Hyperion casually stomp the Hulk?

Under Hickman.

Hyperion punched the Hulk out of him!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Under Hickman.

Hyperion punched the Hulk out of him!

I think you read that wrong. Probably need to reread it.

In DC, Superman.

In Marvel, Tutinax.

Originally posted by carver9
I think you read that wrong. Probably need to reread it.

No, I did not.

In fact, the subtext that Hickman provided is even more telling of how soundly Hyperion defeated Hulk.

The Hulk was so overwhelmed by the sheer power of Hyperion's punches that he feared for his life. Seeking a way out, he subconciously willed Banner to regain control so Hyperion would stop his onslaught.

Hickman himself would approve of this appraisal of the fight.

Originally posted by carver9
How could we take any of your post serious when you think Surfer could beat Superman 10/10. We don't debate off of powerset here my friend.

Uh, as opposed to someone saying Hulk can beat Thor? Taking me seriously is the least of your problems.

If we don't debate powersets that is fine, as long as it is acknowledged that the person is gaining victory merely because their opponent just plum forgets their powers. So skill, power? Irrelevant, just cross your fingers your opponent fights like a dipsh*t because hey we don't debate power sets. We apparently do debate how things would go down in a comic, even though literally anything could happen in a comic. Spider-Man beat down Firelord in a comic.

But hey, we don't argue power sets, instead we just argue the characters will act like morons. Which is somehow better because..reasons?

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Dr Strange, Hulk and Surfer are the only Marvel ones with the chance of taking a majority over Thor


I agree

Might add Black Bolt to that mix as well

you're amazing LOB.

Anyways. If anyone wants to know the real reason why Hulk reverted, here it is.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3063944-avengers+v5+003-zone-017.jpg

Here is the next page.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3063945-avengers+v5+003-zone-018.jpg

With some amazing assistance from Thor, the young lady we see there lost control of Hulk which allowed the transformation from Hulk to Banner. Before this, even while sleep, Hulk couldn't revert back to Banner (when she had control) as shown when he was sleep moments after his fight with Thor. Pretty sure a lot of you already knew this which is the reason it isn't brought up on the forum.

Originally posted by Surtur
Uh, as opposed to someone saying Hulk can beat Thor? Taking me seriously is the least of your problems.

If we don't debate powersets that is fine, as long as it is acknowledged that the person is gaining victory merely because their opponent just plum forgets their powers.

Because Hulk has consistently been shown he can pull wins against Thor. This isn't hard to grasp if you've read and seen their showings.

It's not forgetting their abilities, it's acknowledging their own panel showings. Not ignoring it and making up fairy tale ways of fights. An example of this is someone punching thousands of times in the blink of an eye when they have not done that yet. That's not the only key though. We have to look at average showings and weigh in the highs. This will prevent Thor from one shotting everyone below trans tier with a chaos king blast or Hulk walking around with adamantium hard skin and reverse time punching strength, and Flash fighting all of his battles in an attosecond. You should know these things.

Originally posted by carver9
Because Hulk has consistently been shown he can pull wins against Thor. This isn't hard to grasp if you've read and seen their showings.

It's not forgetting their abilities, it's acknowledging their own panel showings. Not ignoring it and making up fairy tale ways of fight. And example of this is someone punching thousands of times in the blink of an eye when they have not done that yet. That's not the only key though. We have to look at average showings and weigh in the highs. This will prevent Thor from one shorting everyone below trans tier with a chaos king blast or Hulk walking around with adamantium hard skin and reverse time punching strength, and Flash fighting all of his battles in an attosecond. You should know these things.


Yeah, nope. Thor can dimension dump people. Explain how Hulk gets around this power. No, do not say "Thor never dimension dumped Hulk in a comic". He's shown he has the capability.

You talk about Hulk consistently pulling "wins" against Thor, but you fail to mention the ever important detail of: these victories usually happen because Thor fights like a moron and doesn't utilize the vast versatility of his hammer to put this creature down.

Or ignore dimension dumping: Thor can fly, Hulk totally can't. Explain why Thor would decide to physically engage Hulk or allow him to leap at him and hit him? "It happened in a comic!" is not valid. Explain why, when not being hampered down by the plot, Thor would just go let himself get the sh*t kicked out of him despite knowing he has the power to EASILY prevent it.

Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah, nope. Thor can dimension dump people. Explain how Hulk gets around this power. No, do not say "Thor never dimension dumped Hulk in a comic". He's shown he has the capability.



True, he can dimension dump. With that said, since we know he can react to everyone on the DC squad, he dimension dumps all of them (well, the ones that can't teleport) 10/10. But let's cling to high showings or debate off of powerset if you will. Let's use your professional wah of debating. Dimension dumping has already been tried, and it failed because Hulk goes where he wants to go.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/preview/0/0/1/HULK2014001-int-LR3-2-e8a80.jpg
http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/preview/0/0/1/HULK2014001-int-LR3-3-a26a7.jpg
http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/preview/0/0/1/HULK2014001-int-LR3-4-9c5ae.jpg

Powerset for the win.

Are...are you insane? Or just trolling? You posted a feat that shows dimension dumping might not succeed. Which is how debates should work. Yet you say it like you just..got one over on me by..using actual valid evidence to support your argument, instead of silly nonsense?

It's like DAMN you sure showed me..by actually backing up your argument? Well okay, by all means CONTINUE to back up the things you say in a valid way, that is not going to bother me.

Originally posted by Surtur
Are...are you insane? Or just trolling? You posted a feat that shows dimension dumping might not succeed. Which is how debates should work. Yet you say it like you just..got one over on me by..using actual valid evidence to support your argument, instead of silly nonsense?



Even with that scan, it will still work. I can post 10 scans of everything you said can be used against Hulk and showing him overcoming it but that doesn't mean that it's a consistent showing for the character. I also don't understand why you have Thor fighting like Firestorm or Silver Surfer. That's not him. That is completely out of character for him. He isn't going to fly out of space spamming blast because that isn't what he does. Surfer isn't going to turn a planet into kryptonite while fighting Superman. If we debated primarily off of powerset, a lot of these threads wouldn't last long at all. Hell, Surfer would stomp Darkseid and Doomsday at the same time based off everything he's done. Do you believe that as well? You did say Surfer would stomp Supes 10/10.

Originally posted by carver9


Even with that scan, it will still work. I can post 10 scans of everything you said can be used against Hulk and showing him overcoming it but that doesn't mean that it's a consistent showing for the character. I also don't understand why you have Thor fighting like Firestorm or Silver Surfer. That's not him. That is completely out of character for him. He isn't going to fly out of space spamming blast because that isn't what he does. Surfer isn't going to turn a planet into kryptonite while fighting Superman. If we debated primarily off of powerset, a lot of these threads wouldn't last long at all. Hell, Surfer would stomp Darkseid and Doomsday at the same time based off everything he's done. Do you believe that as well? You did say Surfer would stomp Supes 10/10.

Uh the problem is, you act like debating off powersets is some horrible thing. If the alternative is saying Hulk can beat Thor then I'm sorry pal, the powerset debating is by FAR the lesser of two evils here. It is by no means perfect, but if it prevents people from uttering nonsense like "Hulk could beat a competent Thor" then..yeah, it's worth it.

Likewise, if you're saying these things would be out of character for Thor. Okay, but then that doesn't tell me much about how powerful and skilled Hulk is. All it tells me is that Hulk can beat a version of Thor whose had half his brain removed and who lacks any semblance of common sense. To which I am in agreement with you: Thor fighting stupid loses to Hulk 10 times out of 10. Hell he loses to Hulk 11 times out of 10 if he's fighting stupid.

Lol. 'The Hulk goes where he wants...UNLESS he has a teleport machine!'

Don't think he can teleport. He forcefully goes where he wants.

Originally posted by carver9


Don't think he can teleport. He forcefully goes where he wants.

But the problem is..you are saying it wouldn't work because of a scan, of a thing that happened. That is leaps and bounds better then saying it won't work because Thor fights like a moron in comics and is too stupid to not want to get beat to death or to figure out how he could easily use his powers to stay out of harms way.

We aren't even talking about having to use his powers in a massively unique and creative way here.

Originally posted by Surtur
Uh the problem is, you act like debating off powersets is some horrible thing. If the alternative is saying Hulk can beat Thor then I'm sorry pal, the powerset debating is by FAR the lesser of two evils here. It is by no means perfect, but if it prevents people from uttering nonsense like "Hulk could beat a competent Thor" then..yeah, it's worth it.

Likewise, if you're saying these things would be out of character for Thor. Okay, but then that doesn't tell me much about how powerful and skilled Hulk is. All it tells me is that Hulk can beat a version of Thor whose had half his brain removed and who lacks any semblance of common sense. To which I am in agreement with you: Thor fighting stupid loses to Hulk 10 times out of 10. Hell he loses to Hulk 11 times out of 10 if he's fighting stupid.

Lol...if we debate off powerset, then it would be nearly impossible to stop any of these characters and that's including Hulk but if you mix on panel showings, that makes things interesting. You have bricks like Hulk, Doomsday, Titus, Konvikt, The General, who has outright humiliated Heralds. Am I'm suppose to ignore this because they are punchers? No. Just like I'm not going to ignore the way Thor, Wonder Woman, Black Adam or whoever else fights. So again I ask, if Thor is fighting like you say he is fighting, why not start the fight against Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, and Superman with a dimensional dump? Wouldn't that be the smart thing to do? Hell, he could probably solo the 4 of them using that tactic, don't you think?

Originally posted by Surtur
But the problem is..you are saying it wouldn't work because of a scan, of a thing that happened. That is leaps and bounds better then saying it won't work because Thor fights like a moron in comics and is too stupid to not want to get beat to death or to figure out how he could easily use his powers to stay out of harms way.

We aren't even talking about having to use his powers in a massively unique and creative way here.

Thor isn't dimension dumping anyone. He is fighting in character. Surfer isn't beating Superman 10/10. It's debatable if Surfer could pull a majority here but let me tell you why, because we debate with them fighting in character. My scan wasn't to prove Hulk could surpass dimension dump because if Thor wants to bfr him, it is going to happen.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
BM was tailor made to beat Anti Man and that tactic won't work against Thor. He flash koed Sentry, Thor has done the same.

When has Thor flash KO'd The Sentry?

I can't remember this happening.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
When has Thor flash KO'd The Sentry?

I can't remember this happening.

I don't recall this happening myself either.

Silver Surfer would be the one to pull a majority on Superman.

Silver Surfer vs Thor is a closer fight due to versatility on both sides. Edge to SS

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I don't recall this happening myself either.

The Blonde whore has never performed well against The Sentry. Even during SIEGE it is clear that Bob allowed him to kill him.

Superman solidly for DC
For marvel i gotta say strange everyone else is a toss up

Originally posted by carver9
Because Hulk has consistently been shown he can pull wins against Thor. This isn't hard to grasp if you've read and seen their showings.



https://heroclixstrategist.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/avengers-3b-e1394084075164.jpg

Remind me, what happened in the panels AFTER this???

That's right, Hulk and Thor couldn't even move Thor's hand, or pry is fingers open.

how about this one
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/100813/2697534-DEF10_HulkVsThor2.JPG

Do I really need to pull the old Avengers issue where Hulk AND Herc together couldn't move Thor's arm in an arm wrestling match ??

Consistently my @___

Originally posted by beatboks
https://heroclixstrategist.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/avengers-3b-e1394084075164.jpg

Remind me, what happened in the panels AFTER this???

That's right, Hulk and Thor couldn't even move Thor's hand, or pry is fingers open.

how about this one
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/100813/2697534-DEF10_HulkVsThor2.JPG

Do I really need to pull the old Avengers issue where Hulk AND Herc together couldn't move Thor's arm in an arm wrestling match ??

Consistently my @___
Lol those scans are from 50 years ago and pretty much irrelevant now. Both characters have changed significantly since then.

Originally posted by beatboks
https://heroclixstrategist.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/avengers-3b-e1394084075164.jpg

Remind me, what happened in the panels AFTER this???

That's right, Hulk and Thor couldn't even move Thor's hand, or pry is fingers open.

how about this one
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/100813/2697534-DEF10_HulkVsThor2.JPG

Do I really need to pull the old Avengers issue where Hulk AND Herc together couldn't move Thor's arm in an arm wrestling match ??

Consistently my @___

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Which heralds can defeat The Odinson(With Mjolnir) for the Majority?


DCNU

1)Superman Yes (speed)
2)Wonder Woman Yes (speed and lasso)
3)Orion No
4)Captain Marvel No (I'm not sure how fast he is)
5)Majestic Yes (speed)
6)Apollo No
7)Green Lantern Hal No
8)Martian Manhunter Yes
9)Black Adam No (same as Captain Marvel)
10)Superboy Yes

Marvel

1)Black Bolt No (unless he begins screaming)
2)Blue Marvel No
3)Dr. Strange Yes
4)Gladiator Yes (speed)
5)Hulk No
6)Hyperion No (I'm not sure how quick he is)
7)Silver Surfer Yes
8)Wonder Man No

All of them.