Asajj Ventress vs. Revan [SABERS ONLY]

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|King Joker|
Which sexy piece of ass wins?

Ventress as of The Clone Wars: Season 5.
Revan as of Revan.

Battle takes place on Dantooine.

Round 1: Normal mindsets.
Round 2: Each bloodlusted.

Hero of Python
Ventress was good...but was she on Malak's level? Malak was always stated to be a brilliant swordsman, and Revan stalemated him on the Leviathan (Malak cheesed by using Force Stasis) and beat him several times on the Star Forge.

With that in mind...

Round 1: Revan, with some difficulty near the beginning perhaps, but the fight is never in doubt.

Round 2: Revan, with ease, since bloodlusted Revan = calm Revan drawing on the darkside to augment the light. This will give him the advantage over someone blinded by rage like Ventress would be.

ILS
Yeah I agree. It's hard for Ventress to compete with someone like Malak. I don't think she's ever done anything to be considered a brilliant swordsman or anything along those lines tbh.

|King Joker|
Agreed with ILS. Ventress was getting stomped by Plo Koon with a broken arm and could barely beat Ahsoka. She also could barely beat General Grievous, and we all know how shit of a duelist he is.

Ventress is mediocre at best, and abysmal at worst.

SIDIOUS 66
So, King Joker,

I was watching "Dooku Captured" the other day, wherein Dooku sealed off a cave entrance by collapsing a large portion of the cave, leaving a huge mountain of rubble. Obi Wan and Anakin were rendered unconscious by poisonous gases before they managed to free themselves. Right after, the mountain of boulders were blasted away, with no sign of explosion, revealing only Ahsoka and a few clones armed with regular rifle blasters. Also, before the cave was unsealed, you can clearly see two massive boulders moving (as if trying to be lifted by something forcefully) before the entire mountain was eventually blasted away. If Ahsoka telekinetically achieved that, it would be an insane TK feat for her, considering she was only a padawan at the time, and the time period being season 1.

Perhaps you can go over the particular seen more carefully. I underlined the specific part for you to pay closest attention for better judgment.

Sorry for the off-topic, but it happens all the time, and since Ahsoka was brought up, I thought I'd bring this to your attention.

DarthAnt66
You resemble LeGenD so much it's kind of creepy.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You resemble LeGenD so much it's kind of creepy.


BTW, Ventress wins. wink

DarthAnt66
I banned you from discussing Revan until you read my threads, remember?

Chop chop, get to work.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I banned you from discussing Revan until you read my threads, remember?

Chop chop, get to work.


I've read every single respect thread of his except the one made by you (lol).

Ventress wins.

Begone.

DarthAnt66
Funny, considering I'm the only one who ever made a Revan Respect Thread.

How embarrassing. This is going on my profile. thumb up

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
How embarrassing.


Indeed.

What a boring, shitty character, lol.

DarthAnt66
You dug your grave so far down I can't even see you anymore.

I would throw you a rope ladder, but I prefer the humiliation.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
BTW, Ventress wins. wink

DarthAnt66
Glad you have an opinion. Explain to me why it matters, considering you admitted it doesn't.

Revanchiste
Originally posted by Hero of Python
Ventress was good...but was she on Malak's level? Malak was always stated to be a brilliant swordsman, and Revan stalemated him on the Leviathan (Malak cheesed by using Force Stasis) and beat him several times on the Star Forge.

With that in mind...

Round 1: Revan, with some difficulty near the beginning perhaps, but the fight is never in doubt.

Round 2: Revan, with ease, since bloodlusted Revan = calm Revan drawing on the darkside to augment the light. This will give him the advantage over someone blinded by rage like Ventress would be.

I'd like to see more people trying to figure out how Darth Revan mind work... It is such a complexity...

Revanchiste
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I've read every single respect thread of his except the one made by you (lol).

Ventress wins.

Begone.

WTF?

How I always find Darth Revan fascinating..

you know in Pirate of the caraibeans there multiple hidden alegory in Jack sparow jokes... (Until the 4th opus came out) and they describe the character very well...
It ad a new dimension..
And Revan as a sith lord.. Is just fascinating... For the same reason..

He got a great charisma, a great humor (look at HK-47, he reprogramed the droid to be like that. Yhea, just for the sake of driving malak insane !)

Lord Stark
Originally posted by ILS
Yeah I agree. It's hard for Ventress to compete with someone like Malak. I don't think she's ever done anything to be considered a brilliant swordsman or anything along those lines tbh.

Aside from beating celebrated swordsmen? Kit Fisto and Luminara come to mind, both far before her prime.

ILS
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Aside from beating celebrated swordsmen? Kit Fisto and Luminara come to mind, both far before her prime. I was kidding, lol.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by ILS
I was kidding, lol.

laughing Well played, you got me.

|King Joker|
@S66 Thanks, I'll look at that scene again.

Fated Xtasy
Well Ventress would win I would say. After all she's fought with the 4 extremely talented swordsmen of her time.(barring Yoda)

S_W_LeGenD
Revan in both scenarios.

Besides, Revan's dueling ability is foolishly underestimated by some.

AncientPower
Ventress both times.

S_W_LeGenD
^^^

Its lame for even a joke.

AncientPower
Provide Revan dueling feats on par with simultaneously taking the greatest Form III and Form V duelists in the lore solo.

Provide feats on par with defeating Kit Fisto the greatest Shii-Cho practitioner in the lore.

Provide feats that put Revan's dueling skill on par with defeating General Grievous a cyborg on par with Mace Windu and Darth Maul in dueling capability.

Defeating Malak, very likely with the Force, is not on par with any of that in terms of dueling prowess.

DarthAnt66
Not sure why you think you can slap on titles on the caliber of "the greatest _ duelist in lore" when they don't exist. no expression

Making up more quotes, hm?

S_W_LeGenD
^^^

Its an old habit of his or her. wink

AncientPower
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not sure why you think you can slap on titles on the caliber of "the greatest _ duelist in lore" when they don't exist. no expression

Making up more quotes, hm?

If you knew anything about PT era characters, you would know that Obi-Wan Kenobi is the greatest Form III: Soresu practitioner by a mile in the lore via both feats and narrative. Anakin/Vader is the best Form V: Shien/Djem-So by the same token.

Furthermore Kit Fisto is stated to be the best Form I: Shii-Cho practitioner of the PT era and is the only one to have turned it into a viable dueling form.

I'd suggest doing something productive with your day, like I don't know reading the Revenge of the Sith novelisation. But I know non-sensical tripe is your bread and butter when you have no Revan quote-dumping at hand to hide behind.

Stigma
Ventress wins.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by AncientPower
If you knew anything about PT era characters, you would know that Obi-Wan Kenobi is the greatest Form III: Soresu practitioner by a mile in the lore via both feats and narrative. Anakin/Vader is the best Form V: Shien/Djem-So by the same token.

Furthermore Kit Fisto is stated to be the best Form I: Shii-Cho practitioner of the PT era and is the only one to have turned it into a viable dueling form.

I'd suggest doing something productive with your day, like I don't know reading the Revenge of the Sith novelisation. But I know non-sensical tripe is your bread and butter when you have no Revan quote-dumping at hand to hide behind.
So... you don't have the quotes.

Concession accepted.

Originally posted by AncientPower
But I know non-sensical tripe is your bread and butter when you have no Revan quote-dumping at hand to hide behind.
I have a ton of Revan feats I can mention, but I prefer your public humiliation first. wink

Stigma
Originally posted by AncientPower
Provide Revan dueling feats on par with simultaneously taking the greatest Form III and Form V duelists in the lore solo.

Provide feats on par with defeating Kit Fisto the greatest Shii-Cho practitioner in the lore.

Provide feats that put Revan's dueling skill on par with defeating General Grievous a cyborg on par with Mace Windu and Darth Maul in dueling capability.

Defeating Malak, very likely with the Force, is not on par with any of that in terms of dueling prowess.
Some very good points here thumb up

Ventress is a better duelist than Revan. Not sure by how wide margin, though.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Ant, why make fun of S66 about this? What I'm seeing on this second page is far worse.

DarthAnt66
http://gamingforevermore.weebly.com/uploads/2/5/8/9/25893592/5159627_orig.jpg

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
idk, I feel like all attention needs to be diverted to this specific page. I mean, taking everything said in the ROTS Novelization to its exact wording?

DarthAnt66
Wasting time trying to have a discussion with them would be the same as trying to teach a hamster calculus.

It just wouldn't work.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Thanks for the migraines.

DarthAnt66
Come to chat on TOF.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
idek my password.

DarthAnt66
Disgusting.

Make a new account.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I did, on March 18th. I need it to be activated.

DarthAnt66
I deleted it - thought it was Sith. Make another, sorry.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sith is still around?

EDIT: Just made the account.

DarthAnt66
PMs.

AncientPower

Fated Xtasy
Lol I thought Anakin and Obi-Wan being masters of their forms was basic knowledge. I guess not. Nice quotes AP thumb up

AncientPower
My point was that the three of them have the best feats of any practitioners of their respective forms in the lore. Ant yet again falling on his ass.

S_W_LeGenD

Fated Xtasy
Except that Malak's accolade is era specific too and his feats don't match those of Anakin or Obi-Wan unless you consider his feats of beating an exhausted bastila(which he aimed to capture btw) and.... deflecting blaster fire point blank as a show of blade mastery. Which I assure you All three of the aforementioned characters can top.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Furthermore Kit Fisto is stated to be the best Form I: Shii-Cho practitioner of the PT era and is the only one to have turned it into a viable dueling form.
roll eyes (sarcastic)

Have you played SWTOR? Like, ever?

Form I is a viable dueling form and it is commonly learned and utilized in combat situations.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I'd suggest doing something productive with your day, like I don't know reading the Revenge of the Sith novelisation. But I know non-sensical tripe is your bread and butter when you have no Revan quote-dumping at hand to hide behind.
This is ironic, considering your debating history and interpretations of them. You lecturing others about credibility and nonsensical tripe, really ironic.

AncientPower
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
roll eyes (sarcastic)

Have you played SWTOR? Like, ever?

Form I is a viable dueling form and it is commonly learned and utilized in combat situations.


This is ironic, considering your debating history and interpretations of them. You lecturing others about credibility and nonsensical tripe, really ironic.

Cin Drallig : Because the ancient Jedi did not have lightsaber-wielding enemies, Form I does not address the lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. - Jedi vs. Sith the Essential guide to the Force

But really I laugh at you using game mechanics to attempt to contradict FIVE sources all stating that Shii-Cho is meant for facing large crowds and blaster deflection. It was never and has never been a dueling form.

You have no right to an opinion on credibility, you are one of the biggest jokes on all Star Wars forums, not just KMC. I am not surprised that you rush to the defense of your lover-boy however.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Provide Revan dueling feats on par with simultaneously taking the greatest Form III and Form V duelists in the lore solo.
Who are these greatest Form III and Form V duelists in the lore or galactic history? Your personal inventions?

Also, Anakin and Obi-Wan continued to improve with passage of time. Its not like as if Ventress would be able to handle them in a strict lightsaber duel as of ROTS unless she have improved as well.

As for Revan; in one of his documented dueling encounters, he comfortably outdueled an Imperial Guard in a martial clash. Revan's precognitive abilities are so refined and highly developed that they enable him to accurately predict dueling movements of virtually any opponent and outsmart the opponent in return. Did you forget this?

In addition, Imperial Guards are master swordsmen and specialized in combat against Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Provide feats on par with defeating Kit Fisto the greatest Shii-Cho practitioner in the lore.
Kit Fisto being the greatest Form I practitioner is exaggeration. Also, provide evidence of Kit Fisto being able to defeat another master swordsman on the contrary.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Provide feats that put Revan's dueling skill on par with defeating General Grievous a cyborg on par with Mace Windu and Darth Maul in dueling capability.
Grievous ins't on par with those in dueling ability. Grievous commonly uses unorthodox methods and tricks to overcome his opponents. In addition, he have history of subjecting his opponents to Magnaguards beforehand to worn them out.

It wouldn't surprise me if Revan can predict Grievous's moves and counter then effectively, keeping in mind the former's highly advanced precognitive abilities.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Defeating Malak, very likely with the Force, is not on par with any of that in terms of dueling prowess.
Did you forget this?

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051202225806/starwars/images/2/22/Shadows_and_Light.jpg

Some data:

Revan then confronted Darth Malak himself in a fierce duel, but Revan prevailed and finally defeated Darth Malak.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

Also, Darth Malak have very impressive dueling stats in KoTOR-CG, indicating that he further honed his dueling talents during his reign as the Dark Lord.

Learn more about Malak from here: http://www.comicvine.com/darth-malak/4005-47892/forums/darth-malak-respect-thread-1549693/

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by AncientPower
*snip*

Who is humiliating whom again?

Them being master duelists is basic knowledge. Those quotes been around for years, lol.

What you continue to avoid is that you claim that them being the absolute greatest is fact.

You can mask the truth all you want with any insult or quote you pull out, but the victory is secure.

You are dismissed.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Cin Drallig : Because the ancient Jedi did not have lightsaber-wielding enemies, Form I does not address the lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. - Jedi vs. Sith the Essential guide to the Force
Ancient Jedi did not have lightsaber-wielding enemies? So what were ancient Sith using? Sticks? laughing out loud

SWTOR promotes Shii-Cho as "balanced" form.

From Kriea:

"It is simple, and its simplicity is strength."

It seems like Drallig needs history lessons too.

Originally posted by AncientPower
But really I laugh at you using game mechanics to attempt to contradict FIVE sources all stating that Shii-Cho is meant for facing large crowds and blaster deflection. It was never and has never been a dueling form.
I am aware of mechanics of Shii-Cho. It is the earliest dueling form:

"Form I was created by the ancient Jedi during the transition from metal swords to energy beam lightsabers, and the principles of blade contact remain essentially the same." (Drallig)

However, it would be unwise to assume that Form I cannot be used against a single opponent effectively. Performance in lightsaber dueling arts not just depends upon strict martial prowess and technical knowledge of the Forms but also on the ability to use the Force to complement and augment martial actions and additional factors.

Yes, more advanced lightsaber dueling Forms have been developed to address shortcomings of Form I for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat, but this doesn't implies that Form I is utterly useless for the aforementioned role.

Per your logic, Form III is not good for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat role either because it is focused on defensive aspects of combat and designed to counter laserblast.

Every lightsaber dueling Form can be utilized for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. Effectiveness varies due to multiple factors such as skill of the lightsaber-wielder, Force abilities of the lightsaber-wielder, mindset, nature and quality of opposition, and more.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You have no right to an opinion on credibility, you are one of the biggest jokes on all Star Wars forums, not just KMC. I am not surprised that you rush to the defense of your lover-boy however.
The only aspect that I am disliked for by some is for "my liking" of TOR era content. Nothing else.

I am just pointing out the irony of your lecturing to others for their supposedly "abysmal" debating record, when your debating history is far from perfect.

You should concentrate on arguments instead of attacking people. Consider my advice for your own good.

Revanchiste
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Who are these greatest Form III and Form V duelists in the lore or galactic history? Your personal inventions?

Also, Anakin and Obi-Wan continued to improve with passage of time. Its not like as if Ventress would be able to handle them in a strict lightsaber duel as of ROTS unless she have improved as well.

As for Revan; in one of his documented dueling encounters, he comfortably outdueled an Imperial Guard in a martial clash. Revan's precognitive abilities are so refined and highly developed that they enable him to accurately predict dueling movements of virtually any opponent and outsmart the opponent in return. Did you forget this?

In addition, Imperial Guards are master swordsmen and specialized in combat against Jedi and Sith.


Kit Fisto being the greatest Form I practitioner is exaggeration. Also, provide evidence of Kit Fisto being able to defeat another master swordsman on the contrary.


Grievous ins't on par with those in dueling ability. Grievous commonly uses unorthodox methods and tricks to overcome his opponents. In addition, he have history of subjecting his opponents to Magnaguards beforehand to worn them out.

It wouldn't surprise me if Revan can predict Grievous's moves and counter then effectively, keeping in mind the former's highly advanced precognitive abilities.


Did you forget this?

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051202225806/starwars/images/2/22/Shadows_and_Light.jpg

Some data:

Revan then confronted Darth Malak himself in a fierce duel, but Revan prevailed and finally defeated Darth Malak.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

Also, Darth Malak have very impressive dueling stats in KoTOR-CG, indicating that he further honed his dueling talents during his reign as the Dark Lord.

Learn more about Malak from here: http://www.comicvine.com/darth-malak/4005-47892/forums/darth-malak-respect-thread-1549693/

+ Malak Alek and Revan blade are in O.P. Game mechanicc and stats In KotOR are well meaningless.. Except when we get in the O.P !


Anyway Revan have unorthodox and very personalize dueling technics, even for PT era.....
I mean Revan was not onl a great duelist but a true battle master !!!!!! He beat the shit out of Agen Kolar !!!!!!
For Malak O.K The simplicity of his art in yuyo get completly trashed by Mall....
But Jeeze Revan still a good duelist.. And not for his era only and it have been said an resaid.... Due to sheer amount of inovation and ceartivity put in his arts... We shoud all admit than Revan Still a good duelist...

"However, it would be unwise to assume that Form I cannot be used against a single opponent effectively. Performance in lightsaber dueling arts not just depends upon strict martial prowess and technical knowledge of the Forms but also on the ability to use the Force to complement and augment martial actions and additional factors."

It include preco, and all kind of force boosts.... On this point Ventress cannot win...

Revanchiste
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Who are these greatest Form III and Form V duelists in the lore or galactic history? Your personal inventions?

Also, Anakin and Obi-Wan continued to improve with passage of time. Its not like as if Ventress would be able to handle them in a strict lightsaber duel as of ROTS unless she have improved as well.

As for Revan; in one of his documented dueling encounters, he comfortably outdueled an Imperial Guard in a martial clash. Revan's precognitive abilities are so refined and highly developed that they enable him to accurately predict dueling movements of virtually any opponent and outsmart the opponent in return. Did you forget this?

In addition, Imperial Guards are master swordsmen and specialized in combat against Jedi and Sith.


Kit Fisto being the greatest Form I practitioner is exaggeration. Also, provide evidence of Kit Fisto being able to defeat another master swordsman on the contrary.


Grievous ins't on par with those in dueling ability. Grievous commonly uses unorthodox methods and tricks to overcome his opponents. In addition, he have history of subjecting his opponents to Magnaguards beforehand to worn them out.

It wouldn't surprise me if Revan can predict Grievous's moves and counter then effectively, keeping in mind the former's highly advanced precognitive abilities.


Did you forget this?

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051202225806/starwars/images/2/22/Shadows_and_Light.jpg

Some data:

Revan then confronted Darth Malak himself in a fierce duel, but Revan prevailed and finally defeated Darth Malak.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

Also, Darth Malak have very impressive dueling stats in KoTOR-CG, indicating that he further honed his dueling talents during his reign as the Dark Lord.

Learn more about Malak from here: http://www.comicvine.com/darth-malak/4005-47892/forums/darth-malak-respect-thread-1549693/

+ Malak Alek and Revan blade are in O.P. Game mechanicc and stats In KotOR are well meaningless.. Except when we get in the O.P !


Anyway Revan have unorthodox and very personalize dueling technics, even for PT era.....
I mean Revan was not onl a great duelist but a true battle master !!!!!! He beat the shit out of Agen Kolar !!!!!!
For Malak O.K The simplicity of his art in yuyo get completly trashed by Mall....
But Jeeze Revan still a good duelist.. And not for his era only and it have been said an resaid.... Due to sheer amount of inovation and ceartivity put in his arts... We shoud all admit than Revan Still a good duelist...

"However, it would be unwise to assume that Form I cannot be used against a single opponent effectively. Performance in lightsaber dueling arts not just depends upon strict martial prowess and technical knowledge of the Forms but also on the ability to use the Force to complement and augment martial actions and additional factors."

It include preco, and all kind of force boosts.... On this point Ventress cannot win...

evan combat experience is based on battelfield brawl combined with dueling experience....

Revan have a sheer use of Physical and mental acceleration he used it to mlearn faster
You know in Jedi Knight academmy when you activate force speed, all go like a bullet time mode.... It's called in French accelaration physique et mentale. (I prefer this name....)
It is suche an eveidence than Revan is gifted in this power.. It give time ti think to analyze the ennemy fighting style findinng a way to strike dow his ennemy.. It is such an evidence than it act complementary with his preco...

I don't remember where it is stated, but Revan have used this power to learn and read faster.

+ It is such an evidence after what happen during the fight against vitiate.
I repeat myself but that's important..

Have you ever imagine the impact of such insane skill in this technic in a fight? Well combined with an insane preco you became quasi invincible like Kenobi...

|King Joker|
Yeah, Ventress wins.

Revanchiste
Sorry but Revan is faster than her.... He get the speed advatange..

AncientPower
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Them being master duelists is basic knowledge. Those quotes been around for years, lol.

What you continue to avoid is that you claim that them being the absolute greatest is fact.

You can mask the truth all you want with any insult or quote you pull out, but the victory is secure.

You are dismissed.

Your reading comprehension is utterly hilarious, I did not state anything as absolute fact. I pointed out that they are easily the best practitioners of their respective forms in the lore. But feel free to continue to contribute absolutely nothing to ghis thread, as per usual.

AncientPower
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ancient Jedi did not have lightsaber-wielding enemies? So what were ancient Sith using? Sticks? laughing out loud

SWTOR promotes Shii-Cho as "balanced" form.

From Kriea:

"It is simple, and its simplicity is strength."

It seems like Drallig needs history lessons too.


I am aware of mechanics of Shii-Cho. It is the earliest dueling form:

"Form I was created by the ancient Jedi during the transition from metal swords to energy beam lightsabers, and the principles of blade contact remain essentially the same." (Drallig)

However, it would be unwise to assume that Form I cannot be used against a single opponent effectively. Performance in lightsaber dueling arts not just depends upon strict martial prowess and technical knowledge of the Forms but also on the ability to use the Force to complement and augment martial actions and additional factors.

Yes, more advanced lightsaber dueling Forms have been developed to address shortcomings of Form I for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat, but this doesn't implies that Form I is utterly useless for the aforementioned role.

Per your logic, Form III is not good for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat role either because it is focused on defensive aspects of combat and designed to counter laserblast.

Every lightsaber dueling Form can be utilized for lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. Effectiveness varies due to multiple factors such as skill of the lightsaber-wielder, Force abilities of the lightsaber-wielder, mindset, nature and quality of opposition, and more.


The only aspect that I am disliked for by some is for "my liking" of TOR era content. Nothing else.

I am just pointing out the irony of your lecturing to others for their supposedly "abysmal" debating record, when your debating history is far from perfect.

You should concentrate on arguments instead of attacking people. Consider my advice for your own good.

Please educate yourself with the lore, the Jedi were using them before they encountered the Sith, where in they developed Shii-Cho to counter blaster weilding opponents. When they began to encounter other Force users they developed Form II: Makashi which is the classic dueling form.

My debating history is of harvard quality compared to the insults to logic which you have displayed for years.

AncientPower
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Who are these greatest Form III and Form V duelists in the lore or galactic history? Your personal inventions?

Also, Anakin and Obi-Wan continued to improve with passage of time. Its not like as if Ventress would be able to handle them in a strict lightsaber duel as of ROTS unless she have improved as well.

As for Revan; in one of his documented dueling encounters, he comfortably outdueled an Imperial Guard in a martial clash. Revan's precognitive abilities are so refined and highly developed that they enable him to accurately predict dueling movements of virtually any opponent and outsmart the opponent in return. Did you forget this?

In addition, Imperial Guards are master swordsmen and specialized in combat against Jedi and Sith.


Kit Fisto being the greatest Form I practitioner is exaggeration. Also, provide evidence of Kit Fisto being able to defeat another master swordsman on the contrary.


Grievous ins't on par with those in dueling ability. Grievous commonly uses unorthodox methods and tricks to overcome his opponents. In addition, he have history of subjecting his opponents to Magnaguards beforehand to worn them out.

It wouldn't surprise me if Revan can predict Grievous's moves and counter then effectively, keeping in mind the former's highly advanced precognitive abilities.


Did you forget this?

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051202225806/starwars/images/2/22/Shadows_and_Light.jpg

Some data:

Revan then confronted Darth Malak himself in a fierce duel, but Revan prevailed and finally defeated Darth Malak.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

Also, Darth Malak have very impressive dueling stats in KoTOR-CG, indicating that he further honed his dueling talents during his reign as the Dark Lord.

Learn more about Malak from here: http://www.comicvine.com/darth-malak/4005-47892/forums/darth-malak-respect-thread-1549693/

Provide feats that place anyone else of those forms as a challenge to three of the best master swordsmen from the peak of the Golden Age of the Jedi that have statements calling them the most developed and greatest users of their forms.

Luke Skywalker whom has the best dueling ability of all time is stated to have replicated Vader's form perfectly by ROTJ and refined it even further afterwards.

Darth Malak and Darth Malgus only have implied mastery of forms and generic great duelist accolades. Falling completely short of the feats that the PT swordsmen can call on.

carthage
Revan dies

AncientPower
Asajj Ventress plainly has better dueling feats against much greater duelists, the TOR brigade should accept this.

carthage
thumb up

NTJack0
Revan loses.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Ah, the complex nature of logical fallacies. LeGenD's discrediting of Rayla (wink) due to her past false attribution (which is a fallacy) is a fallacy, Rayla's insults to LeGenD's beliefs for alleged bias is bulverism, and there's just ad hominem all around. I've probably committed one or two myself in this thread. Kind of a random thought, but after studying them, (though not as in depth as I'd like,) it's hard to ignore how often they're commited.

its harder to be objective than I thought, Gideon.

AncientPower
How long is that joke going to continue? If I wanted to I could call you a Sinious sock but that would be equally absurd. Friendly advice: logical fallacies are exceptionally common and happen regardless of one's observation. When it comes to the likes of LeGenD however 'fallacy' doesn't quite cover it. I would think complete lack of objectivity would be more suitable as logical fallacies are but a symptom of his unfathomable bias.

ILS
Legend must feel pretty important with all the limelight he's been getting recently.

Legend be like "the new TOR expansion looks-"

Ancient be like

YOU ****ING BIASED LUNATIC GTFO *insert PT character here* > *insert TOR character here* DEAL WITH IT

And then Legend responds more calmly but with equal amounts of ad hominem.

AncientPower
Quite the opposite, LeGenD is the one whom continuously insults and wall of texts me(and plenty others) for daring to believe that Count Dooku and Darth Maul are superior opponents to generic Lords of the Sith Empire.

If I am to be heckled for not putting up with his insults to common sense then so be it.

ILS
Please don't act like you guys aren't going back and forth in every second thread. It's pretty fun to read when you aren't doing anything. You guys are like a daily source of entertainment at times.

AncientPower
Not intentionally, I believe he does so because I assert that *Insert other era character here* > *Insert TOR era character here*. This of course means I need to be educated about SWTOR related characters and must sit through his pages of generic irrelevant encyclopedic hype.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Please educate yourself with the lore, the Jedi were using them before they encountered the Sith, where in they developed Shii-Cho to counter blaster weilding opponents. When they began to encounter other Force users they developed Form II: Makashi which is the classic dueling form.
I am well-informed in this regard, thank you.

You on the other-hand...

Form III:

The third major lightsaber discipline was first developed in response to the advancement of blaster technology in the galaxy. As these weapons spread wildly into the hands of evil doers, Jedi had to develop unique means for defending themselves. Form III that arose from "laserblast" deflection training. Over the centuries, it has transcended this origin to become a highly refined expression of non-aggressive Jedi philosophy.

Taken from Fightsaber

Form I represents standard Jedi martial arts or balanced combat philosophy and its simplicity is a strength in itself.

Originally posted by AncientPower
My debating history is of harvard quality compared to the insults to logic which you have displayed for years.
I didn't realize that Harvard encouraged people to post mostly unsubstantiated bullshit, exaggerate stuff, and rely mostly on memory then actual references to formulate arguments, till now. This sums up your debating history that I have witnessed so far.

Also, whenever you mention a name, do not forget to use capital for the starting letter. Names should be distinguished from normal words. Harvard did not teach you even basic English writing skills?

I don't get the reason for your aggression and superiority complex with such shameful record. Again, you should refrain from personal attacks in your responses for your own good.

AncientPower
"Unsubstantiated bullshit", tell me again how Lords of the Sith Empire = Darth Maul & Darth Tyranus.

Please don't try to educate others on grammar and the written word, you've written in broken English since as long as I can remembr.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Provide feats that place anyone else of those forms as a challenge to three of the best master swordsmen from the peak of the Golden Age of the Jedi that have statements calling them the most developed and greatest users of their forms.
Is Golden Age supposed to imply something? Kindly elaborate with information from relevant citations.

When it comes to competitiveness, terms such as Golden Age do not carry much weight, per my understanding; the Golden Age of Sith is proof of my position in this regard.

I do not deny progress in refinement of dueling forms such as Form V and Form VII with passage of time but it would be a stretch to assume that ancient masters of lightsaber dueling arts would not be able to compete with and/or outduel PT/OT era masters of lightsaber dueling arts in a serious duel. As I pointed out earlier, effectiveness of a Jedi in combat situation is dependent upon multiple factors and not just on proficiency in lightsaber dueling arts. I don't feel the need to repeat this point again and again. Any fan, who is well-informed about the lore, would understand my point.

Once again, as an example, Revan is not complemented for his proficiency in lightsaber dueling arts but he effortlessly out-dueled a master swordsman (i.e. Imperial Guard) in one of his documented martial confrontations. Revan's exceptional precognitive abilities and impressive speed made the difference; in short, Revan's ability to use the Force. And mindset.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Luke Skywalker whom has the best dueling ability of all time is stated to have replicated Vader's form perfectly by ROTJ and refined it even further afterwards.
Luke Skywalker "arguably" has the best dueling ability. Understand? When you make a bold assertion such as this one, make a habit to offer evidence as well.

Luke have rivals in Darth Caedus, Yoda, HoT, and perhaps Tulak Hord. Perhaps even more.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Malak and Darth Malgus only have implied mastery of forms and generic great duelist accolades. Falling completely short of the feats that the PT swordsmen can call on.
Darth Malgus have some well-documented dueling feats. And I haven't seen better from PT era duelists. Enlighten me, if I am wrong.

Stigma
Originally posted by carthage
Revan dies
thumb up

Stigma
Double post FTW
Originally posted by AncientPower
Asajj Ventress plainly has better dueling feats against much greater duelists, the TOR brigade should accept this.
thumb up

ILS
http://www.biokineticspt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2531_Toy-Story-characters-eating-popcorn.jpg

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by ILS
Legend must feel pretty important with all the limelight he's been getting recently.

Legend be like "the new TOR expansion looks-"

Ancient be like

YOU ****ING BIASED LUNATIC GTFO *insert PT character here* > *insert TOR character here* DEAL WITH IT

And then Legend responds more calmly but with equal amounts of ad hominem.

Originally posted by ILS
Please don't act like you guys aren't going back and forth in every second thread. It's pretty fun to read when you aren't doing anything. You guys are like a daily source of entertainment at times.

thumb up thumb up

Col. Valerian
I wouldn't say Revan is a better duelist, but I wouldn't go as far as saying he gets beaten by her easily. If she is indeed better and does win, it would probably still be a lengthy and torturous duel. Revan's no pushover in any aspect of his game.

If this was all-out, Asajj would be crushed.

I don't even like Revan that much doe

Dark-Kenshin
Revan. No question.

Selenial
Originally posted by ILS
Please don't act like you guys aren't going back and forth in every second thread. It's pretty fun to read when you aren't doing anything. You guys are like a daily source of entertainment at times.

This is so true laughing out loud

Jmanghan
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Agreed with ILS. Ventress was getting stomped by Plo Koon with a broken arm and could barely beat Ahsoka. She also could barely beat General Grievous, and we all know how shit of a duelist he is.

Ventress is mediocre at best, and abysmal at worst. This is old and idk if you are even still here, but didn't Ventress also beat Luminara's ass?

Apologies for the necro too, I just was interested in this.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Yeah, Ventress wins. Oof nvm, sorry.

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