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Help me here. Which one is truly more powerful?

KB was stated to be the most dangerous, iirc, but it might've been because of his unpredictability/really violent behaviour.

Super Buu

Kid Buu.

Originally posted by juggerman
Super Buu

Originally posted by carver9
Kid Buu. Nope

Originally posted by carver9
Kid Buu. Why?

I'm not sure. Super Buu at his base might not be that much stronger.

Super Buu at his base is A LOT stronger

In the manga, it was INFERRED that Super Buu was the strongest of the base form Buu's.

In the anime, it was explicitly STATED that Kid Buu was stronger than Super Buu.

So it depends on the cannon you take into account.

Manga : Super Buu >= Kid Buu

Anime : Kid Buu > Super Buu

Imho, I think that Kid Buu is physically weaker than Super Buu, but still stronger than the first appearance Fat Buu. However, I think Kid Buu has MUCH greater regenerative ability, as well as energy capacity. He never got tired, even once, in all of his fights. Even against Fat Buu, he kept constantly fighting at 10, while fat Buu progressively went from 10, to 9, and so forth, until Kid Buu was able to curb-stomp him like he was nothing. Personally, I think that Kid Buu would beat any of the other Buu's in a fight, because of the seemingly limitless potential of the energy he can carry. I'd pit him against any Buu, below Buutenks. Idk about Buucolo, but who knows.

Super Boo oneshots.
It's not even a contest really, since the manga gives plenty of informations regarding Super Boo being superior in power.

Per the manga(which is all that matters where canonicity is concerned), Super Buu>>>Pure Buu.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Super Boo oneshots.
It's not even a contest really, since the manga gives plenty of informations regarding Super Boo being superior in power.

Such as? The only thing in the manga that points to Kid Buu being weaker, is when it was said that he wasn't the strongest, but the most dangerous. Anything other than that is speculation.

Probably Kid Buu

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Such as? The only thing in the manga that points to Kid Buu being weaker, is when it was said that he wasn't the strongest, but the most dangerous. Anything other than that is speculation.

No, that's not speculation; contrariwise, pure speculation is to say that Kid Boo has even a hope of landing a hit in this fight.
See:

- Goku said that a fusion of the boys would have been stronger than him and enough to take down Fat Boo. He clearly was referring to Ssj Gotenks, as he also didn't obviously expect the kids to use the Ssj3 (he even told Piccolo that, in order to take down Fatty, a training session in the Rosat would have been unnecessary).
Also, when Ssj Gotenks finally was formed, Piccolo didn't question once his capability to put down Fatso.
So: Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- When Super Boo firstly formed, Piccolo shit himself and said that Gotenks was nowhere close to him in power and that it would have been necessary a training session in the Rosat.
After the boys trained, when Piccolo sees base Gotenks he says that "he truly has changed in power", and even if you don't believe in the power stretch which is base Gotenks (post) > Ssj Gotenks (pre), it surely is, generally, Gotenks (post) > Gotenks (pre).
So: Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then, when the fight gets serious, Gotenks goes Ssj3 and Goku be like

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6a/22/ec/6a22ec1372350bb64757502d070d8492.jpg

through the crystal ball of Elder Kai. Ssj3 Gotenks and full power Super Boo are basically evenly matched, some say Gotenks has a little upper-hand in power (which is true, BTW), others say that Super Boo was actually jobbing, waiting for Ultimate Gohan (he sensed him far away in the universe, and which could be true as-well).
So: Ssj3 Gotenks >= Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- After that, Ultimate Gohan arrives (ah, good were the times when Gohan was undoubtly the strongest, now he goes around in a green tracking suit and he doesn't even know if he can even transform in Ssj anymore... **** you AT) and he uses Super Boo as his personal punching-ball; also, Goku's expression at Gohan powering up in his full Chou form was like:

http://www.gatorbytes.net/images/im_shocked.jpg

Thus we have:
Ultimate Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks (even Trunks, who is usually cocky, says so) >= Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then Super Boo uses his brain (that's a news) and wants to absord Piccolo and Ssj3 Gotenks in order to have the intelligence of the former and the shear power of the latter. Besides what happens with Kaioshins (since they are magical beings they influence in a different way Boo's essence when they get absorbed), it is proved that every other type of absorption from Boo does works like a sum of powers: indeed, when Super Boo absorbed Ssj3 Gotenks, his power basically doubled (since Boo himself and Ssj3 Gotenks were nearly even), so now Bootenks is more powerful than Chou Gohan (who had a good margin over Super Boo and Ssj3 Gotenks themselves). In fact, now we have:
Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Now, seeing that Gohan is in trouble, Goku gets new life from Elder Kai himself and goes to Earth in order to Potara-fuse with Gohan. As clearly stated in the manga by the Old Kai, Potara fusion is more powerful than fusion dance and it doesn't have a time limit.
Gohan anyway is dumb (a guy who, at the very least, has relativistic+ level of reflexes and still doesn't catch a goddam earring ), and while he is searching for the earring, Ssj3 Goku's head is going to be popped up by Bootenks (see by Goku's expression in the manga how badly he was shitting himself there), but exaclty in that moment the fusion inside Boo fades out and he reverts to his "Boocolo" form, who is basically a smarter Super Boo since, power-wise, adding Piccolo's, base Goten's and base Trunks' powers to Super Boo's is like adding a drop of water to the ocean, i.e. and addition which is completely inconsequential.
Goku then recomposes himself after the huge shit he took, he reverts to base form and he calls himself out of the fight: in fact, he was there only with the purpose to fuse with Gohan, but Boo lost Ssj3 Gotenks' powers and reverted back to his base Super Boo's level of power (+ Piccolo's brain), so Gohan could have won alone and fusion was no longer necessary (still, in power, it is Boocolo = Super Boo, so any version of Goku would anyway get murked so bad it isn't even funny). Thus we have:
Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Gohan gets anyway absorbed (LOL), and thus Boohan is born: since Ultimate Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks, Boohan is > Bootenks clearly for the same amount, and thus it's evident how Boohan is not even 2x Bootenks in power. Still, he obviously is stronger and now he doesn't even have a time limit.
So: Boohan > Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then Vegeta appears, and when Boohan learns that the former and Goku want to fuse, he laughs and says that even a fusion of the two won't be enough (remember that Boohan has Piccolo's and the boys' minds, so he knows everything about metamoran fusion and about the Ssj3 transformation). This is another direct proof of Vegetto's absolute superiority over Gogeta, as the gap the latter has over Gotenks is the same the adults have over the kids, and this gap is specifically said not to be enough to close the distance in power between "normal" Super Boo (who is nearly equal to Ssj3 Gotenks) and Boohan (who outright says that Gogeta wouldn't work against him).
Anyway, Boohan didn't obviously know that Goku and Vegeta were going to use the Potara earrings instead, so Vegetto is born, then turns Ssj and proceeds to make a complete, utter fool out of Boohan, murking him without even using his arms.
Both Vegetto himself and the Elder Kai state that the Potara outcome is even greater than expected, and this is because Goku and Vegeta are 2 of 3 masters in combat in the universe and, furthermore, they are rivals; so: Potara (at Goku and Vegeta) > Potara (expected) > fusion dance.
Being said that, we have:
Ssj Vegetto >> Boohan > Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then Vegetto gets himself absorbed in other to free from Boo's body all the others: Goku and Vegeta succeed in that and Boohan reverts back to Super Boo. His power drops so Vegeta (as an usual idiot like he is) says to get out; at that point, Goku shits himself (again) and states that no matter if Super Boo is weaker than Boohan, they would still get one-shotted. He then says that their only way to win is to use fusion dance, but Vegeta refuses.
Every piece of the puzzle fits perfectly, in fact since Ssj3 Gotenks was >= Super Boo, Gogeta would have got the job done against Super Boo as well, given that Gogeta is > Gotenks for the same amount Goku/Vegeta are > Goten/Trunks.
The there is the focal point: Vegeta frees even Fat Boo, and Super Boo begins to change. Goku and Vegeta find a way out of Boo's body and they comment on his transformations: at first, when Buff Boo appears, they shit themselves (poor Goku, how many times has this happened to him during the Boo saga? ) since he is even stronger than Super Boo (but weaker than Bootenks and Boohan), then when Kid Boo is formed they are happy since his power dropped by a huge amount.
Goku then states that fusion is no longer necessary against Kid Boo and that he could beat him on his own with Ssj3: he actually is right, since in pure power he has an albeit small upper-hand (even Vegeta confirms it, by saying that a full power attack from Ssj3 Goku would destroy Kid Boo), anyway, the huge loss in stamina, which is a peculiarity of the Ssj3 form, plus the fact that Goku never rally used that form in a living body, turns the fight in Kid Boo's favor (who is a crazy bubble-gum which never tires).
At this point, in order to give Goku help, Ssj2 Vegeta steps in but gets murked so bad it isn't even funny. You know the rest of the story.

So, the final power chain is:

Ssj Vegetto >> Boohan > Bootenks > Chou Gohan >= Buff Boo >= Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku >= Kid Boo > Fat Boo > Grey Boo > Good Boo (Good Boo + Grey Boo is = Fat Boo) > Ssj2 Goku = Majin Vegeta = Ssj2 Vegeta (post Majin) > Ssj2 Gohan CG >= SPC > Ssj2 Gohan (Boo saga) > adults Ssj (Boo saga) > Ssj Trunks >= Ssj Goten > Piccolo (Piccolo, against Fat Boo, when Vegeta was dead, Gohan was thought dead and Goku was missing, said that the kids were their only hope, and he didn't even know about fusion at the time) > base saiyans.

Sorry to be blunt, but to say that Kid Boo here has even a chance of seeing Super Boo hitting him before he drops dead is equal to blatantly ignore a whole saga of the manga, and/or pure Goku's fanboyism.

Grey Boo did punk Fat Boo.

Originally posted by Bentley
Grey Boo did punk Fat Boo.

Nope.
Grey Boo destroyed Good Boo, while Fat Boo already split into its two good (Good Boo) and evil parts (Grey Boo) at the time.
Since the evil part was the predominant one, Grey Boo won over Good Boo, and the sum of said two parts corresponds to Fat Boo.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
No, that's not speculation; contrariwise, pure speculation is to say that Kid Boo has even a hope of landing a hit in this fight.
See:

- Goku said that a fusion of the boys would have been stronger than him and enough to take down Fat Boo. He clearly was referring to Ssj Gotenks, as he also didn't obviously expect the kids to use the Ssj3 (he even told Piccolo that, in order to take down Fatty, a training session in the Rosat would have been unnecessary).
Also, when Ssj Gotenks finally was formed, Piccolo didn't question once his capability to put down Fatso.
So: Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- When Super Boo firstly formed, Piccolo shit himself and said that Gotenks was nowhere close to him in power and that it would have been necessary a training session in the Rosat.
After the boys trained, when Piccolo sees base Gotenks he says that "he truly has changed in power", and even if you don't believe in the power stretch which is base Gotenks (post) > Ssj Gotenks (pre), it surely is, generally, Gotenks (post) > Gotenks (pre).
So: Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then, when the fight gets serious, Gotenks goes Ssj3 and Goku be like

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6a/22/ec/6a22ec1372350bb64757502d070d8492.jpg

through the crystal ball of Elder Kai. Ssj3 Gotenks and full power Super Boo are basically evenly matched, some say Gotenks has a little upper-hand in power (which is true, BTW), others say that Super Boo was actually jobbing, waiting for Ultimate Gohan (he sensed him far away in the universe, and which could be true as-well).
So: Ssj3 Gotenks >= Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- After that, Ultimate Gohan arrives (ah, good were the times when Gohan was undoubtly the strongest, now he goes around in a green tracking suit and he doesn't even know if he can even transform in Ssj anymore... **** you AT) and he uses Super Boo as his personal punching-ball; also, Goku's expression at Gohan powering up in his full Chou form was like:

http://www.gatorbytes.net/images/im_shocked.jpg

Thus we have:
Ultimate Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks (even Trunks, who is usually cocky, says so) >= Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then Super Boo uses his brain (that's a news) and wants to absord Piccolo and Ssj3 Gotenks in order to have the intelligence of the former and the shear power of the latter. Besides what happens with Kaioshins (since they are magical beings they influence in a different way Boo's essence when they get absorbed), it is proved that every other type of absorption from Boo does works like a sum of powers: indeed, when Super Boo absorbed Ssj3 Gotenks, his power basically doubled (since Boo himself and Ssj3 Gotenks were nearly even), so now Bootenks is more powerful than Chou Gohan (who had a good margin over Super Boo and Ssj3 Gotenks themselves). In fact, now we have:
Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Now, seeing that Gohan is in trouble, Goku gets new life from Elder Kai himself and goes to Earth in order to Potara-fuse with Gohan. As clearly stated in the manga by the Old Kai, Potara fusion is more powerful than fusion dance and it doesn't have a time limit.
Gohan anyway is dumb (a guy who, at the very least, has relativistic+ level of reflexes and still doesn't catch a goddam earring ), and while he is searching for the earring, Ssj3 Goku's head is going to be popped up by Bootenks (see by Goku's expression in the manga how badly he was shitting himself there), but exaclty in that moment the fusion inside Boo fades out and he reverts to his "Boocolo" form, who is basically a smarter Super Boo since, power-wise, adding Piccolo's, base Goten's and base Trunks' powers to Super Boo's is like adding a drop of water to the ocean, i.e. and addition which is completely inconsequential.
Goku then recomposes himself after the huge shit he took, he reverts to base form and he calls himself out of the fight: in fact, he was there only with the purpose to fuse with Gohan, but Boo lost Ssj3 Gotenks' powers and reverted back to his base Super Boo's level of power (+ Piccolo's brain), so Gohan could have won alone and fusion was no longer necessary (still, in power, it is Boocolo = Super Boo, so any version of Goku would anyway get murked so bad it isn't even funny). Thus we have:
Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Gohan gets anyway absorbed (LOL), and thus Boohan is born: since Ultimate Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks, Boohan is > Bootenks clearly for the same amount, and thus it's evident how Boohan is not even 2x Bootenks in power. Still, he obviously is stronger and now he doesn't even have a time limit.
So: Boohan > Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then Vegeta appears, and when Boohan learns that the former and Goku want to fuse, he laughs and says that even a fusion of the two won't be enough (remember that Boohan has Piccolo's and the boys' minds, so he knows everything about metamoran fusion and about the Ssj3 transformation). This is another direct proof of Vegetto's absolute superiority over Gogeta, as the gap the latter has over Gotenks is the same the adults have over the kids, and this gap is specifically said not to be enough to close the distance in power between "normal" Super Boo (who is nearly equal to Ssj3 Gotenks) and Boohan (who outright says that Gogeta wouldn't work against him).
Anyway, Boohan didn't obviously know that Goku and Vegeta were going to use the Potara earrings instead, so Vegetto is born, then turns Ssj and proceeds to make a complete, utter fool out of Boohan, murking him without even using his arms.
Both Vegetto himself and the Elder Kai state that the Potara outcome is even greater than expected, and this is because Goku and Vegeta are 2 of 3 masters in combat in the universe and, furthermore, they are rivals; so: Potara (at Goku and Vegeta) > Potara (expected) > fusion dance.
Being said that, we have:
Ssj Vegetto >> Boohan > Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then Vegetto gets himself absorbed in other to free from Boo's body all the others: Goku and Vegeta succeed in that and Boohan reverts back to Super Boo. His power drops so Vegeta (as an usual idiot like he is) says to get out; at that point, Goku shits himself (again) and states that no matter if Super Boo is weaker than Boohan, they would still get one-shotted. He then says that their only way to win is to use fusion dance, but Vegeta refuses.
Every piece of the puzzle fits perfectly, in fact since Ssj3 Gotenks was >= Super Boo, Gogeta would have got the job done against Super Boo as well, given that Gogeta is > Gotenks for the same amount Goku/Vegeta are > Goten/Trunks.
The there is the focal point: Vegeta frees even Fat Boo, and Super Boo begins to change. Goku and Vegeta find a way out of Boo's body and they comment on his transformations: at first, when Buff Boo appears, they shit themselves (poor Goku, how many times has this happened to him during the Boo saga? ) since he is even stronger than Super Boo (but weaker than Bootenks and Boohan), then when Kid Boo is formed they are happy since his power dropped by a huge amount.
Goku then states that fusion is no longer necessary against Kid Boo and that he could beat him on his own with Ssj3: he actually is right, since in pure power he has an albeit small upper-hand (even Vegeta confirms it, by saying that a full power attack from Ssj3 Goku would destroy Kid Boo), anyway, the huge loss in stamina, which is a peculiarity of the Ssj3 form, plus the fact that Goku never rally used that form in a living body, turns the fight in Kid Boo's favor (who is a crazy bubble-gum which never tires).
At this point, in order to give Goku help, Ssj2 Vegeta steps in but gets murked so bad it isn't even funny. You know the rest of the story.

So, the final power chain is:

Ssj Vegetto >> Boohan > Bootenks > Chou Gohan >= Buff Boo >= Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku >= Kid Boo > Fat Boo > Grey Boo > Good Boo (Good Boo + Grey Boo is = Fat Boo) > Ssj2 Goku = Majin Vegeta = Ssj2 Vegeta (post Majin) > Ssj2 Gohan CG >= SPC > Ssj2 Gohan (Boo saga) > adults Ssj (Boo saga) > Ssj Trunks >= Ssj Goten > Piccolo (Piccolo, against Fat Boo, when Vegeta was dead, Gohan was thought dead and Goku was missing, said that the kids were their only hope, and he didn't even know about fusion at the time) > base saiyans.

Sorry to be blunt, but to say that Kid Boo here has even a chance of seeing Super Boo hitting him before he drops dead is equal to blatantly ignore a whole saga of the manga, and/or pure Goku's fanboyism.

Agree with pretty much everything. The only thing you are wrong about, and you addressed it earlier so I can't beat you up about it, is that Super Buu is clearly stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. They are close but Super Buu has more than just a slight edge. Other than that, bravo my friend.

Originally posted by juggerman
Agree with pretty much everything. The only thing you are wrong about, and you addressed it earlier so I can't beat you up about it, is that Super Buu is clearly stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. They are close but Super Buu has more than just a slight edge. Other than that, bravo my friend.


Actually from the fight it seemed that Ssj3 Gotenks had an advantage over Boo, and he was actually ready to finish him off before the fusion time run out.
But then Boo admits to be really outclassed only against Chou Gohan (saying that he won't allow someone stronger than him to exist), so the probability of him "testing" Gotenks' powers is quite substantial.
Personally, I think that Ssj3 Gotenks could have pulled it off, that's why I usually give him a small margin over Super Boo.

Buu basically admits only Gohan was stronger than him. Could Gotenks perma kill Buu? Possibly, but that doesn't make him stronger. Remember Piccolo killed Raditz so being able to beat/kill doesn't mean stronger. And Buu says he was just dragging the fight out while Gotenks was trying to beat Buu so it's much more likely Buu would edge out Gotenks much easier if he were actually trying.

Originally posted by Bentley
Grey Boo did punk Fat Boo. That's because "most of" Buu's power went to the Evil/Grey incarnation when they split.

Super Buu's stronger.

Super Buu > Pure Buu > Fatty. Fat being at the bottom, because even though Fat Buu and Super Buu have the same parts, the jolly fat Kaioshin is supposed to have inhibited his powers somewhat..

Originally posted by juggerman
Buu basically admits only Gohan was stronger than him. Could Gotenks perma kill Buu? Possibly, but that doesn't make him stronger. Remember Piccolo killed Raditz so being able to beat/kill doesn't mean stronger. And Buu says he was just dragging the fight out while Gotenks was trying to beat Buu so it's much more likely Buu would edge out Gotenks much easier if he were actually trying.

Yeah can agree with this.
As long as the gap between Ssj3 Gotenks and Super Boo is minimal (in one sense or another) it'll be fine.

Nothing indicates that Super Buu was stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. By all accounts, they were equal(Piccolo says as much.)

Agreed on them being equal. In regards to basing Goku power level during the time he fought Fat Buu to his power level when he fought Kid Buu, you would honestly never know the power changed he received from that huge gap in time. Goku got slaughtered within this time period which allowed him to become stronger. How much stronger? Who knows but with the Saiyan potential, it's a possibility he could've become more powerful than his son. Don't see a reason for the Ki's to be terrified of Kid Buu presence if they didn't think highly of him over the other Buu. Hell, Goku thought that the fusion ear rings would he best.

Goku tends to under rate himself, hell, he tends to give people props KNOWING that he is far more powerful than others and his main goal during the Buu saga wasn't to beat Buu by himself, he wanted another hero to take the spotlight. Hell, during the Buu saga, he even told Majin Vegeta that they were equals knowing he had super Saiyan 3 as a backup. He could've killed Fat Buu, could've killed Kid Buu but he held back to give others a chance. I wouldn't take anything Goku said during that run as something set in stone when it's obvious what his intentions were.

Unless a zenkai was explicitly mentioned, it didn't happen. That is to say: if Akira intended Goku to have become massively stronger during the Buu saga, there would have been in-universe narrative telling us as much...But there wasn't.

In simpler terms: Goku's BP remained the same throughout the Buu saga. The Kai's being awestruck of Purr Buu's power doesn't mean anything--Supreme Kai freaked the f*ck out at Dabura's Cell-level power as well. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Nothing indicates that Super Buu was stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. By all accounts, they were equal(Piccolo says as much.)

Piccolo says Gotenks was close to Buu's strength. And Buu admitted he dragged the fight out, i.e. didn't try to win. What else do we need?

-The canon VIZ quote-
Piccolo, to SSJ3 Gotenks: " has never fought anyone as strong as you... It unsettles him to think that anyone might be his equal Don't let your guard down!! He'll be desperate now!!"

The fanmade/non-canon scanlations(which are what most go by, as they are the most readily accessible sources on the web) are good enough to give us a *rough* bearing as to what is going on... But they are FAR from infallible in situations where specific verbiage is required. That's where the canon VIZ quotes come into play.

The only reason Buu *may* have had the overall edge is because his powers didn't have a time limit, whereas Gotenks' obviously did. Power-to-power, though, they were equals(their battle is reflective of such.)

Ok I was going off of a different quote. But doesn't it stand to reason that Buu was just playing the part? Pretending to be frustrated since he knew about Gohan at that point?

Nothing points to Buu pretending to be frustrated, and/or holding back during his fight with Gotenks, imo. Their powers were equal and that legitimately pissed Buu off--it was the first time he'd faced anyone on par with himself. The fact that he knew a stronger opponent was out there(ie. Gohan) doesn't mean he feigned weakness against Gotenks or w/e.

That being said, do I think Gotenks could have perma-killed Buu? Probably not. Buu's regen stunt inside the RoSaT(after Gotenks and Piccolo had vaporized all of his remains immediately following the Kamikaze Ghost attack) was indicative of that, imo. Tbh, it really didn't seem like 'normal' ki was capable of killing any version of Buu. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Tbh, it really didn't seem like 'normal' ki was capable of killing any version of Buu. /shrug

With the exception of the almighty Vegetto though.

^ I really don't know that Vegetto generated entirely 'normal' ki, though. I've always thought of him more as a magic-based character. Aside from the fact that he was created via Potara-magics, some of the wacky abilities he pulled out of his ass were, even by DBZ standards, absolutely insane... Namely the fact that he was still fully functional even after being transmuted into a piece of chocolate candy. It's hard to imagine 'normal' ki being able to counteract Buu-magics, is all. /shrug


Either way, he could have definitely obliterated Buu. I agree with that much.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I really don't know that Vegetto generated entirely 'normal' ki, though. I've always thought of him more as a magic-based character. Aside from the fact that he was created via Potara-magics, some of the wacky abilities he pulled out of his ass were, even by DBZ standards, absolutely insane... Namely the fact that he was still fully functional even after being transmuted into a piece of chocolate candy. It's hard to imagine 'normal' ki being able to counteract Buu-magics, is all. /shrug


Either way, he could have definitely obliterated Buu. I agree with that much.

^I agree with this.
I also always saw Vegetto as something else: I think we really witnessed only a small amount of his capabilities (besides the Ssj2 and Ssj3 transformations).
Like you said, he is OP in a level which is above what everyone else showed in DBZ.
I personally find that the only other character as OP as he is Whis, and surely the Potaras (magical earrings described as the most powerful weapons of Kaiohsins) have something to do with this.

I'd really like to see Vegetto (with God Ki, that would really be something else) one more time, but I don't think it will ever happen.

If Toriyama did have them dance fuse, I'd bet money he'd simply have them form Vegetto, and not Gogeta. Maybe without the less conventional powers, though.

But variations in power due to differing fusion methods make more sense then producing two different people without an explanation.

Actually, in regards to the Gotenks/Super Buu thing, it was implied that SSJ3 Gotenks COULD have killed Super Buu with ONE attack, if he had taken the fight at all seriously.

In fact, that's why Super Buu was so terrified when Gotenks was fixing to finish him off with his "Ultimate move", before Gotenks reverted to base, from overusing his SSJ3.

Kind of where GT got the inspiration for how SSJ4 Gogeta managed to phuck up a sure win.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
No, that's not speculation; contrariwise, pure speculation is to say that Kid Boo has even a hope of landing a hit in this fight.
See:

- Goku said that a fusion of the boys would have been stronger than him and enough to take down Fat Boo. He clearly was referring to Ssj Gotenks, as he also didn't obviously expect the kids to use the Ssj3 (he even told Piccolo that, in order to take down Fatty, a training session in the Rosat would have been unnecessary).
Also, when Ssj Gotenks finally was formed, Piccolo didn't question once his capability to put down Fatso.
So: Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- When Super Boo firstly formed, Piccolo shit himself and said that Gotenks was nowhere close to him in power and that it would have been necessary a training session in the Rosat.
After the boys trained, when Piccolo sees base Gotenks he says that "he truly has changed in power", and even if you don't believe in the power stretch which is base Gotenks (post) > Ssj Gotenks (pre), it surely is, generally, Gotenks (post) > Gotenks (pre).
So: Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then, when the fight gets serious, Gotenks goes Ssj3 and Goku be like

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6a/22/ec/6a22ec1372350bb64757502d070d8492.jpg

through the crystal ball of Elder Kai. Ssj3 Gotenks and full power Super Boo are basically evenly matched, some say Gotenks has a little upper-hand in power (which is true, BTW), others say that Super Boo was actually jobbing, waiting for Ultimate Gohan (he sensed him far away in the universe, and which could be true as-well).
So: Ssj3 Gotenks >= Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- After that, Ultimate Gohan arrives (ah, good were the times when Gohan was undoubtly the strongest, now he goes around in a green tracking suit and he doesn't even know if he can even transform in Ssj anymore... **** you AT) and he uses Super Boo as his personal punching-ball; also, Goku's expression at Gohan powering up in his full Chou form was like:

http://www.gatorbytes.net/images/im_shocked.jpg

Thus we have:
Ultimate Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks (even Trunks, who is usually cocky, says so) >= Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then Super Boo uses his brain (that's a news) and wants to absord Piccolo and Ssj3 Gotenks in order to have the intelligence of the former and the shear power of the latter. Besides what happens with Kaioshins (since they are magical beings they influence in a different way Boo's essence when they get absorbed), it is proved that every other type of absorption from Boo does works like a sum of powers: indeed, when Super Boo absorbed Ssj3 Gotenks, his power basically doubled (since Boo himself and Ssj3 Gotenks were nearly even), so now Bootenks is more powerful than Chou Gohan (who had a good margin over Super Boo and Ssj3 Gotenks themselves). In fact, now we have:
Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Now, seeing that Gohan is in trouble, Goku gets new life from Elder Kai himself and goes to Earth in order to Potara-fuse with Gohan. As clearly stated in the manga by the Old Kai, Potara fusion is more powerful than fusion dance and it doesn't have a time limit.
Gohan anyway is dumb (a guy who, at the very least, has relativistic+ level of reflexes and still doesn't catch a goddam earring ), and while he is searching for the earring, Ssj3 Goku's head is going to be popped up by Bootenks (see by Goku's expression in the manga how badly he was shitting himself there), but exaclty in that moment the fusion inside Boo fades out and he reverts to his "Boocolo" form, who is basically a smarter Super Boo since, power-wise, adding Piccolo's, base Goten's and base Trunks' powers to Super Boo's is like adding a drop of water to the ocean, i.e. and addition which is completely inconsequential.
Goku then recomposes himself after the huge shit he took, he reverts to base form and he calls himself out of the fight: in fact, he was there only with the purpose to fuse with Gohan, but Boo lost Ssj3 Gotenks' powers and reverted back to his base Super Boo's level of power (+ Piccolo's brain), so Gohan could have won alone and fusion was no longer necessary (still, in power, it is Boocolo = Super Boo, so any version of Goku would anyway get murked so bad it isn't even funny). Thus we have:
Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Gohan gets anyway absorbed (LOL), and thus Boohan is born: since Ultimate Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks, Boohan is > Bootenks clearly for the same amount, and thus it's evident how Boohan is not even 2x Bootenks in power. Still, he obviously is stronger and now he doesn't even have a time limit.
So: Boohan > Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then Vegeta appears, and when Boohan learns that the former and Goku want to fuse, he laughs and says that even a fusion of the two won't be enough (remember that Boohan has Piccolo's and the boys' minds, so he knows everything about metamoran fusion and about the Ssj3 transformation). This is another direct proof of Vegetto's absolute superiority over Gogeta, as the gap the latter has over Gotenks is the same the adults have over the kids, and this gap is specifically said not to be enough to close the distance in power between "normal" Super Boo (who is nearly equal to Ssj3 Gotenks) and Boohan (who outright says that Gogeta wouldn't work against him).
Anyway, Boohan didn't obviously know that Goku and Vegeta were going to use the Potara earrings instead, so Vegetto is born, then turns Ssj and proceeds to make a complete, utter fool out of Boohan, murking him without even using his arms.
Both Vegetto himself and the Elder Kai state that the Potara outcome is even greater than expected, and this is because Goku and Vegeta are 2 of 3 masters in combat in the universe and, furthermore, they are rivals; so: Potara (at Goku and Vegeta) > Potara (expected) > fusion dance.
Being said that, we have:
Ssj Vegetto >> Boohan > Bootenks > Chou Gohan > Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku > Fat Boo

- Then Vegetto gets himself absorbed in other to free from Boo's body all the others: Goku and Vegeta succeed in that and Boohan reverts back to Super Boo. His power drops so Vegeta (as an usual idiot like he is) says to get out; at that point, Goku shits himself (again) and states that no matter if Super Boo is weaker than Boohan, they would still get one-shotted. He then says that their only way to win is to use fusion dance, but Vegeta refuses.
Every piece of the puzzle fits perfectly, in fact since Ssj3 Gotenks was >= Super Boo, Gogeta would have got the job done against Super Boo as well, given that Gogeta is > Gotenks for the same amount Goku/Vegeta are > Goten/Trunks.
The there is the focal point: Vegeta frees even Fat Boo, and Super Boo begins to change. Goku and Vegeta find a way out of Boo's body and they comment on his transformations: at first, when Buff Boo appears, they shit themselves (poor Goku, how many times has this happened to him during the Boo saga? ) since he is even stronger than Super Boo (but weaker than Bootenks and Boohan), then when Kid Boo is formed they are happy since his power dropped by a huge amount.
Goku then states that fusion is no longer necessary against Kid Boo and that he could beat him on his own with Ssj3: he actually is right, since in pure power he has an albeit small upper-hand (even Vegeta confirms it, by saying that a full power attack from Ssj3 Goku would destroy Kid Boo), anyway, the huge loss in stamina, which is a peculiarity of the Ssj3 form, plus the fact that Goku never rally used that form in a living body, turns the fight in Kid Boo's favor (who is a crazy bubble-gum which never tires).
At this point, in order to give Goku help, Ssj2 Vegeta steps in but gets murked so bad it isn't even funny. You know the rest of the story.

So, the final power chain is:

Ssj Vegetto >> Boohan > Bootenks > Chou Gohan >= Buff Boo >= Ssj3 Gotenks >= Boocolo = Super Boo >> Ssj Gotenks (post) >> Ssj Gotenks (pre) >= Ssj3 Goku >= Kid Boo > Fat Boo > Grey Boo > Good Boo (Good Boo + Grey Boo is = Fat Boo) > Ssj2 Goku = Majin Vegeta = Ssj2 Vegeta (post Majin) > Ssj2 Gohan CG >= SPC > Ssj2 Gohan (Boo saga) > adults Ssj (Boo saga) > Ssj Trunks >= Ssj Goten > Piccolo (Piccolo, against Fat Boo, when Vegeta was dead, Gohan was thought dead and Goku was missing, said that the kids were their only hope, and he didn't even know about fusion at the time) > base saiyans.

Sorry to be blunt, but to say that Kid Boo here has even a chance of seeing Super Boo hitting him before he drops dead is equal to blatantly ignore a whole saga of the manga, and/or pure Goku's fanboyism.




how long did it take you to write this lol......everything is correct btw

Bump.

Not much that needs to be addressed here. The argument that Kid Buu is stronger hinges on thinking Goku is stronger than Kid Buu. This argument is all sorts of false, since Goku says that they'd all need to train hard in case Kid Buu ever came back and Vegeta says it'll be the end of the world if Kid Buu returns. Both of these observations dispel any notions that Gohan or Gotenks are stronger, thus Kid Buu > Super Buu. Then there's the whole spirit bomb thing.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Not much that needs to be addressed here. The argument that Kid Buu is stronger hinges on thinking Goku is stronger than Kid Buu. This argument is all sorts of false, since Goku says that they'd all need to train hard in case Kid Buu ever came back and Vegeta says it'll be the end of the world if Kid Buu returns. Both of these observations dispel any notions that Gohan or Gotenks are stronger, thus Kid Buu > Super Buu. Then there's the whole spirit bomb thing.

Please re-read this series.

Originally posted by Based
Please re-read this series. Please don't address my comments unless you intend to produce an actual counter-argument. Thanks.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Please don't address my comments unless you intend to produce an actual counter-argument. Thanks.

The series itself provided the counter argument.

Goku suggested that Gohan or Gotenks would have beaten Kid Buu. Your only evidence supporting this outrageous claim is that Vegeta said it would be the end of the world if Kid Buu came back. However, you apparently fail to realize that this has nothing to do with their power levels. Even though there were several characters that were stronger than Fat Buu or Super Buu present in the world, both these versions of Buu nearly managed to destroy the entire universe. No one is arguing that Kid Buu isn't the most dangerous, which is what your argument is supporting. He is not even close to being the strongest. Even Goku stated that he could have defeated him, if he were at full power.

You're basically arguing that SSJ3 Goku is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan, Buutenks, and Buuhan. Which is just phucking silly, bro.

Kid Buu can blow up the planet before anyone could stop him and could also absorb people to make himself stronger. Of course Vegeta wouldn't want that to happen.

And as demonstrated by a grossly weakened 4th form Freeza during RoF: even if a weaker being destroys the planet, it will still kill everyone. The exact same thing was implied/demonstrated when Semi-Perfect Cell kamikaze'd.

Obviously Boo would present the same type of potential threat.

Originally posted by Galan007


And as demonstrated by a grossly weakened 4th form Freeza during RoF: even if a weaker being destroys the planet, it will still kill everyone. The exact same thing was implied/demonstrated when Semi-Perfect Cell kamikaze'd.

Obviously Boo would present the same type of potential threat.

Yeah, the only reason Goku and Vegeta survived Kid Buu's planet buster is because Goku teleported them away.

But Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Piccolo all died.

And in ROF, they all die again. And the SSJ "god" Vegeta died.

Z characters can't survive a planet being destroyed, (Unless you're Freeza. And even he can't do it without a scratch, he's not Superman. ) Therefore, Kid Buu is far more dangerous overall.

No one has disputed Kid Buu being more dangerous ifaik, the contention is about which is more powerful overall and/or which would win in a fight.

That would be Super Buu. Goku's first impulse was to fuse against him, while he at least tried to fight Kid Buu.

Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, the only reason Goku and Vegeta survived Kid Buu's planet buster is because Goku teleported them away.

But Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Piccolo all died.

And in ROF, they all die again. And the SSJ "god" Vegeta died.

Z characters can't survive a planet being destroyed, (Unless you're Freeza. And even he can't do it without a scratch, he's not Superman. ) Therefore, Kid Buu is far more dangerous overall.

You try so hard to erk DBZ fans. We've caught on to you.

Well... This thread is still a thing...

Originally posted by carver9
You try so hard to erk DBZ fans. We've caught on to you.

Point out anything I said that isn't true.

Earth should get a durability boost.

Originally posted by cdtm
Point out anything I said that isn't true.

Well, I mean, sure.

Originally posted by cdtm
Z characters can't survive a planet being destroyed, (Unless you're Freeza. And even he can't do it without a scratch, he's not Superman. )

It was stated by Whis in Super that the distinction between Frieza's ability to survive a planet buster and Vegeta's was their ability to survive in the void of space; not their ability to survive explosions.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, I mean, sure.



It was stated by Whis in Super that the distinction between Frieza's ability to survive a planet buster and Vegeta's was their ability to survive in the void of space; not their ability to survive explosions.

Thank you, that makes another easily exploitable weakness for a Superman arch type (Think Superman vs The Elite. Specifically, Hat.)

Originally posted by cdtm
Thank you, that makes another easily exploitable weakness for a Superman arch type (Think Superman vs The Elite. Specifically, Hat.)

Well too bad for Superman, that all the relevant Z-fighters are millions of times stronger, faster, and more durable than him at this point.

Doesn't really matter that they have a weakness, if they can kill him with a gesture before he can make a move.

Kid Buu is significantly stronger than Super Buu. If you remember in the anime when Gotenks' fusion wears off and Super Buu reverts to Buuccolo, SS3 Goku says "You don't intend to fight me like that, do you?" He implies he can wreck Buuccolo, and later he loses to Kid Buu. Another simple comparison.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Kid Buu is significantly stronger than Super Buu. If you remember in the anime when Gotenks' fusion wears off and Super Buu reverts to Buuccolo, SS3 Goku says "You don't intend to fight me like that, do you?" He implies he can wreck Buuccolo, and later he loses to Kid Buu. Another simple comparison.

The anime mistranslated that scene. In the manga, Goku see's Buutenks revert to Buucolo, and says, "Gohan himself could beat you now.".

http://i10.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/503/dragon-ball-1952529.jpg

Goku himself had absolutely no intention of fighting ANY form of Super Buu. He even admits that he and Vegeta TOGETHER would have no chance against BASE Super Buu, and Vegeta accepts this as well. Why do you think Vegeta tore down fat Buu in the first place?

http://i9.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/508/dragon-ball-72353.jpg

And Goku didn't lose to Kid Buu. Vegeta said that if he was at full power, he could have killed Kid Buu in a single attack. Goku supported this, but admitted it would take him a full minute to get to full power.

http://i4.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/511/dragon-ball-72398.jpg

Kid Buu wasn't much stronger than Mr. Buu, who was weaker than Fat Buu. So Kid Buu was weaker than, or equal to Fat Buu, who Goku also said he probably would have been able to kill. SSJ1 Gotenks was equal to SSJ3 Goku, according to the Daizenshuu. It took SSJ3 Gotenks to fight on par with Super Buu, making Super Buu 8 times stronger than Fat Buu, and conversely 8 times stronger than Kid Buu.

SSJ3 Gotenks ~ Base Super Buu >>>>> SSJ3 Goku > Fat Buu ~ Grey Buu ~ Kid Buu > Mr. Buu.

Hmm, interesting. Unless I find evidence or are persuaded to change my opinion, I concede to you, sir.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Hmm, interesting. Unless I find evidence or are persuaded to change my opinion, I concede to you, sir.

I respect that, lol. It's refreshing to see someone that can admit when they're wrong, instead of just trolling.

Super Buu easily.

It was pretty clear to me that Kid Buu was a weaker than Super Buu

Gogeta nailed it

Originally posted by Damborgson
Gogeta nailed it

Daw, shucks.