Greatest NBA Players Ever

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
This a a question that will always be asked: Who is the greatest player ever? Who are your top 10 at each position, and what is your overall top 10?

TheHulk
Why do you this?

Anyway...*sigh* i guess it really goes to show how mighty Michael Jordan since everyone goes ''he is automatically number 1'' only a few will select Wilt Chamberlain or even Bill Russel at times.

My list is

1)Michael Jordan
2)Magic Johnson
3)Kobe Bryant
4)LeBron James
5)Larry Bird
6)Kareem Abdul Jabbar
7)Wilt Chamberlain
8)Shaquille O'Neal
9)Hakeem Olajuwon
10)Bill Russel

Point Guard
1-Magic Johnson
2-Isiah Thomas
3-Bob Cousy
4-Steve Nash(Suck it)
5-John Stockton
6-Oscar Robertson
7-Chris Paul
8-Gary Payton
9-Jason Kidd
10-Walt Frazier

Shooting Guard
1-MJ
2-Kobe Bryant
3-Jerry West
4-Allen Iverson
5-Clyde Drexler
6-John Havlicek
7-Pete Maravich
8-Earl Monroe
9-Reggie Miller
10-Ray Allen

Small Forward
1-LeBron James
2-Larry Bird
3-Elgin Baylor
4-Scottie Pippen
5-Doc J
6-Dominique Wilkins
7-Adrian Dantley
8-James Worthy
9-Rick Barry
10-Kevin Durant

Power Forward
1-Charles Barkley
2-Karl Malone
3-Tim Duncan
4-Kevin Garnett
5-Bob Petitt
6-Kevin McHale
7-Dirk Nowitzki
8-Dennis Rodman
9-Elvin Hayes
10-Dolph Schayes

Center
1-Kareem Abdul Jabbar
2-Wilt Chamberlain
3-Shaquille O'Neal
4-Hakeem Olajuwon
5-Bill Russell
6-Moses Malone
7-David Robinson
8-Patrick Ewing
9-George Mikan
10-Bill Walton

dynamix
^^ i don't know, i actually enjoy these threads lol! if anything, some great discussions can come out of it ha. But i would like to rank them in no particular order lol.

PG
1. Magic
2. Isiah
3. stockton
4. nash
5. Kidd
6. The Cooz
7. Tiny
8. Kevin Johnson
9. Mark Jackson
10. fck it...Chris Paul lol!

SG
1. Airness
2. Mamba
3. Big O
4. Answer
5. Iceman
6. Glide
7. Pearl
8. Logo
9. Pistol
10. Flash

SF
1. Larry Bird
2. Lebron James
3. Julius Erving
4. Nique
5. Elgin Baylor
6. Tracy McGrady (prime)
7. Kevin Durant
8. Scottie Pippen
9. Grant Hill (Prime)
10. Vince Carter (prime)

PF
1.Tim Duncan
2. Kevin McHale
3. Charles Barkley
4. Karl Malone
5. Dennis Rodman
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Elvin Hayes
8. Nowitzki
9. Chris Webber
10. Bob McAdoo

Center
1. Bill Russell
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem
4. Olajuwon
5. Moses Malone
6. Shaquille O'Neil
7. Ewing
8. Thurmond
9. David Robinson
10. Walton

TheHulk
Good list...

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
6. Tim Duncan
7. Lebron James
8. Larry Bird
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Kobe Bryant

I'll make my positional lists later

TheHulk
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
6. Tim Duncan
7. Lebron James
8. Larry Bird
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Kobe Bryant How dare you put Tim Duncan over LeBron, Kobe, Shaq and Bird mad

Jmanghan
Bob Cousy and MJ are way up there.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Why Cousy? Definitely top 10, probably top 5 point guard, but one of the ten greatest players ever? I'm not so sure about that.

dynamix
yeah, i think couse was great for his time but not sure if he can crack the all-time list. he really only dribbles one hand (forgot whether it was his left or right)

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by TheHulk
How dare you put Tim Duncan over LeBron, Kobe, Shaq and Bird mad

The man's career accomplishments are just utterly insane. 5 championships, 3 finals MVP's, 2 regular season MVP's, 10 all NBA first teams, 8 all defensive first teams, etc. while his prime may not have been quite as dominant as, say, Shaq, his consistent greatness he has had throughout his career is only matched by Kareem's. Hell, he might win his 6th ring and 4th finals MVP this year.

LordofBrooklyn
This is too easy.

1.Michael Jordan
2.Wilt Chamberlain
3.Magic Johnson
4.Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5.Kobe Bryant
6.Shaquille O'Neal
7.Bill Russell
8.Tim Duncan
9.Lebron James
10.Larry Bird

TheHulk
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The man's career accomplishments are just utterly insane. 5 championships, 3 finals MVP's, 2 regular season MVP's, 10 all NBA first teams, 8 all defensive first teams, etc. while his prime may not have been quite as dominant as, say, Shaq, his consistent greatness he has had throughout his career is only matched by Kareem's. Hell, he might win his 6th ring and 4th finals MVP this year. I agree with his consistency that is why he is top 10 material in PF and all time list. But to put him over those 4, Shaq who is way more dominant, Kobe and James whose offensive and defensive abilities(except James) are just more deadly along with both of their amazing Basketball IQ and Larry Bird who is incredibly more efficient in both sides of the court? I can't accept that concept.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Editted list:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Lebron James (!)
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Oscar Robertson

(No Idea where to put Bill Russell lol)

TheHulk
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Editted list:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Lebron James (!)
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Oscar Robertson

(No Idea where to put Bill Russell lol) This list, especially the change, makes my nose bleed....

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Too much respect for Lebron? smile

TheHulk
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Too much respect for Lebron? smile Overrespect, if their is such a thing....

Based
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Too much respect for Lebron? smile

Nah

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Agreed. Lebron deserves to be in the top 5 and imo top 3 for various reasons.

draxx_tOfU
1. MJ

2. - 9. In no particular order...

- Wilt
- Magic
- Larry
- Bill Russell
- Kareem
- Lebron
- Shaq
- Tim Duncan

10. Kobe

My list is based upon looking at the entire breadth of their careers, dominance, consistency, playoff performance, value to the team (i don't mean in a profit centric way but leadership etc). Just my opinion. smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Interesting how virtually everyone's top 10 lists have the same players.

TheHulk
I will admit this, if LeBron wins a championship again especially against the Warriors again this year? His resume for being the GOAT would be deadly.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by TheHulk
I will admit this, if LeBron wins a championship again especially against the Warriors again this year? His resume for being the GOAT would be deadly.

LIES!!!!

Surtur
MJ would slap the shit out of Lebron James.

TheHulk
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
LIES!!!! The context of the situations proves it. Again if he wins.

Originally posted by Surtur
MJ would slap the shit out of Lebron James. In iso, maybe. But LeBron elevates his team like no other.

dvampire
Rose
Kobe
Jordan


Lebron

There's two before him.

Trocity
Many will see this as utter blasphemy, but Wilt and Russell aren't even in my top 10.

My only concrete rankings are Jordan at 1, LeBron at 2.

The other 8, in no specific order, are:

Magic
Hakeem
Kareem
Shaq
Bird
Kobe
Duncan
Barkley(A little biased here) but he's the best PF of all time other than Duncan, who is really a center. Malone was great too but had one of the best point guards of all time getting him plenty of easy buckets, whereas Charles pretty much carried his team the vast majority of his career.

TheHulk
Originally posted by dvampire
Rose
Kobe
Jordan


Lebron

There's two before him. I'm sorry but Derrick Rose?

TheHulk
Originally posted by Trocity
Many will see this as utter blasphemy, but Wilt and Russell aren't even in my top 10.

My only concrete rankings are Jordan at 1, LeBron at 2.

The other 8, in no specific order, are:

Magic
Hakeem
Kareem
Shaq
Bird
Kobe
Duncan
Barkley(A little biased here) but he's the best PF of all time other than Duncan, who is really a center. Malone was great too but had one of the best point guards of all time getting him plenty of easy buckets, whereas Charles pretty much carried his team the vast majority of his career. If you are one of the people that think Wilt and Russel aren't top 10, despite their achievements, because of the era they played in then that's fine.

I agree, i do believe Barkley is the greatest PF imo.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Duncan, Malone, and KG are all undoubtedly better than Barkley IMO. They're all solidly superior as defenders, and they're all more accomplished than he is.

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Lebron
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Bird
9. Kobe

No idea where Russell places in this configuration.

TheHulk
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Duncan, Malone, and KG are all undoubtedly better than Barkley IMO. They're all solidly superior as defenders, and they're all more accomplished than he is.

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Lebron
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Bird
9. Kobe

No idea where Russell places in this configuration. Undoubtedly is a strong word my friend. Duncan is more accomplished, hell he is the most accomplished PF in history. Malone? maybe. KG, meh. I definitely won't pick KG over Barkley or Duncan or Malone.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Trocity
Many will see this as utter blasphemy, but Wilt and Russell aren't even in my top 10.

You're right, this is utter blasphemy. smile

Why not?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by TheHulk
Undoubtedly is a strong word my friend. Duncan is more accomplished, hell he is the most accomplished PF in history. Malone? maybe. KG, meh. I definitely won't pick KG over Barkley or Duncan or Malone.

KG was a much better defender, comparable rebounder, better playmaker, and comparable scorer to Barkley at his peak.

Malone was Barkley but an inferior playmaker, better scorer and defender, with much more longevity and more accolades to boot.

Duncan is self-explanatory.

Deronn_solo
1. LeBron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Kareem
4. Magic Johnson
5. Bill Russel
6. Tim Dunan
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Larry Bird
10. Shaq

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Lebron isn't No. 1 yet. Get outta here, nigga.

Deronn_solo
I don't have to wait, lal. If I'm starting a team, I'd take LeBron over any other players in NBA history. That, to me is what makes someone a G.O.A.T.

James' legacy will most likely never be better than MJ's for a lot of reasons, some completely out of his hands, but his talent and sheer ability as player is.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Talent and sheer ability aren't everything. Accolades matter. thumb up

Deronn_solo
I see you're being retarded about this. smile

LeBron isn't the most accomplished, or greatest but in terms of overall player value he is the best. With an equally talented team, I believe he gives my team a better chance to win than any player ever. That is how I define the G.O.A.T. at it's core. Within this context, "greatest" and "best" are not synonymous terms.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
In terms of winning championships for my franchise, I'm absolutely starting with Jordan. Once he had that piece that he needed, (Scottie,) the Bulls were absolutely unstoppable. Conversely, 'Bron with his pieces epically choked against the Mavs, and got shellacked in the 2014 Finals. Your best bet to winning in the playoffs once you've assembled the right pieces is Jordan. thumb up

Deronn_solo
I'm absolutely not giving you 2014, lmao. LeBron did all anyone possibly could to win, but the Spurs was just a far and away superior team. Even a 20 point 1 quarter couldn'y stop his team from getting blown out in game 5. Wade was ridiculously washed up, and Bosh was at the tail end of being the player he was. MJ's team was better than every team they beat, that was further complimented by chocking superstars on the other side. I wouldn't say last year's CLE was better than GS, yet LeBron stilled galvanized his "troops" and lead them to victory.

I'd give you the Mavs, but that's about it.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And given that MJ's teams were better than every team they beat, they never failed to deliver. No 7 games Finals series. Lebron choked hard in 2011, and almost lost the 2013 NBA Finals with a superior team as well. I'll give you that the Spurs were better in 2014, but I still doubt Jordan would have ever let such a historically lopsided series occur. Jordan's regular season stats, playoff stats, accolades, etc are all superior to Lebron's. Lebron can do more with less, but in terms of actually winning the chip, no one does as well as Jordan in terms of results or statistics. I'll give you that the 2016 Finals are a greater accomplishment than anything Jordan ever did, but it takes more than one year to surmount MJ.

Tell you what: if these Cavs beat these Warriors in the Finals, Lebron is 50/50 for me in terms of being the GOAT.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Tell you what: if these Cavs beat these Warriors in the Finals, Lebron is 50/50 for me in terms of being the GOAT.

That's fair. smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
It's just unlikely, though. This Warriors team is honestly the best team of all time. I'd argue they could smoke just about any team from the past 20 years in a playoff series.

Deronn_solo
Better than the '00 Lakers, with a peak Shaq, and peaking Kobe?

TheHulk
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
KG was a much better defender, comparable rebounder, better playmaker, and comparable scorer to Barkley at his peak.

Malone was Barkley but an inferior playmaker, better scorer and defender, with much more longevity and more accolades to boot.

Duncan is self-explanatory. KG better defender? definitely. Comparable rebounder..maybe...in fact i might say KG is better. Better playmaker? meh. Comparable scorer? slap yourself, KG never averaged more than 25 points(24.3 ppg is his best in fact) Barkley did it roughly 5 times. If we were to stick to their prime peak years KG would average 23ppg while Barkley would average 25ppg, which might not be much but take it the good fact that Barkley averaged a better FG percentage through those years(all were close to 600% for f**k sake) and career wise too. If Barkley averaged more points and has a better field goal percentage then it's not comparable...it's noticeably better.

Meh IMO, Malone won't function that high without Stockton whistle

Respect to Duncan but without Spurs management like Pops and consistent teammates like Manu, Parker and at one point The Admiral, in my honest and harsh opinion, Dunan would have never amounted to anything.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Better than the '00 Lakers, with a peak Shaq, and peaking Kobe? Heh, saw this debate on first take laughing out loud

Deronn_solo
This is based on nothing but speculation and conjecture, tbh


Who were they siding with, tbh?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Better than the '00 Lakers, with a peak Shaq, and peaking Kobe?

Yep. The way I see it is:

1. Draymond and Klay take turns guarding Kobe
2. KD and Zaza do their best as rim protectors against Shaq, (which yes, is barbecue chicken for Shaq).

Then...how the fugg do the Lakers stop KD/Steph/Klay? Kobe wasn't exactly a consistently elite defender, and he's not stopping KD or Steph, period. Draymond's playmaking to get easy shots for KD/Steph/Klay would tear apart the '00 Lakers. And don't forget about the run-stopper Shaun Livingston, Iguodala, or the other solid scorers on the Warrior's bench. And the best part?

These Warriors haven't peaked yet. They literally have the highest point differential in NBA History, and they haven't peaked. This is going to be a dynasty.

TheHulk
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
This is based on nothing but speculation and conjecture, tbh


Who were they siding with, tbh? Maybe because we never seen Duncan fail that hard i admit. But it's just a step less then assuming LeBron would have never won a ring if he were to stay in Cleveland. They would probably not have got Kyrie either.

Stephen A Smith my man, was on Laker side and Max being the opinionated ass he is...was on Warriors. In short Max case was 3s>2s and if i remember correctly Stephen case was Shaq and Kobe would just dominate.

TheHulk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3uYCTGDN8s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo5wuhaC1U0

Here's the video

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by TheHulk
KG better defender? definitely. Comparable rebounder..maybe...in fact i might say KG is better. Better playmaker? meh. Comparable scorer? slap yourself, KG never averaged more than 25 points(24.3 ppg is his best in fact) Barkley did it roughly 5 times. If we were to stick to their prime peak years KG would average 23ppg while Barkley would average 25ppg, which might not be much but take it the good fact that Barkley averaged a better FG percentage through those years(all were close to 600% for f**k sake) and career wise too. If Barkley averaged more points and has a better field goal percentage then it's not comparable...it's noticeably better.

Meh IMO, Malone won't function that high without Stockton whistle

Respect to Duncan but without Spurs management like Pops and consistent teammates like Manu, Parker and at one point The Admiral, in my honest and harsh opinion, Dunan would have never amounted to anything.

1. Yes, KG is by far the better defender. Which is half of the game, mind you. thumb up

2. I agree. KG at his peak averaged around 14 rebounds per game, which is more than Barkley. Generally speaking I'd give Barkley a slight edge, though.

3. Being a better playmaker is nothing to scoff at. KG literally had to be the primary scorer, defender, and facilitator for the TWolves. Like, him averaging 5-6 dimes at his peak to go along with the points/rebounds defense is absolutely insane, beyond what we've seen from Barkley.

4. KG is very much a comparable scorer to Barkley. Better midrange shooter, equal if not better post up game. Barkley was just more dominant in terms of transition scoring. Barkley had a higher FG % than KG because he shot inside much more than KG, who actually preferred fadeaways and midrangers. May as well say all scoring centers are better scorers than all guards because of their FG %.

5. Add on to all of this the fact that KG has a DPOY and was the best player on a championship team, (Barkley has neither,) and I'd think KG should definitely be above Barkley on all time lists.

With regards to Karl Malone...Stockton benefitted more from Malone than vice versa. When Amar'e left Phoenix, he still averaged 25 with the Knicks. Blake Griffin was just as good of a scorer before Chris Paul joined. Kareem was a great scorer with or without Magic Johnson. Malone has 11 All-NBA 1st Team appearances, 2 MVPs, and better overall statistics than Barkley. He's simply...better.

With regards to Tim Duncan...there's no argument for Barkley here. Tim literally led the Spurs to a ring his sophomore season with an absolutely incredible Finals performance. Don't forget the 2003 Finals, where he had 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 8 blocks in the closeout game. Duncan had a better post up game than Barkley, and was a much better defender and leader than Barkley. Duncan's longevity also shits on Barkley's.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Dirk is another guy I may put above Barkley. Dude should have won 3 straight MVPs from 2004-2005 to 2006-2007.

TheHulk
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Yes, KG is by far the better defender. Which is half of the game, mind you. thumb up

2. I agree. KG at his peak averaged around 14 rebounds per game, which is more than Barkley. Generally speaking I'd give Barkley a slight edge, though.

3. Being a better playmaker is nothing to scoff at. KG literally had to be the primary scorer, defender, and facilitator for the TWolves. Like, him averaging 5-6 dimes at his peak to go along with the points/rebounds defense is absolutely insane, beyond what we've seen from Barkley.

4. KG is very much a comparable scorer to Barkley. Better midrange shooter, equal if not better post up game. Barkley was just more dominant in terms of transition scoring. Barkley had a higher FG % than KG because he shot inside much more than KG, who actually preferred fadeaways and midrangers. May as well say all scoring centers are better scorers than all guards because of their FG %.

5. Add on to all of this the fact that KG has a DPOY and was the best player on a championship team, (Barkley has neither,) and I'd think KG should definitely be above Barkley on all time lists.

With regards to Karl Malone...Stockton benefitted more from Malone than vice versa. When Amar'e left Phoenix, he still averaged 25 with the Knicks. Blake Griffin was just as good of a scorer before Chris Paul joined. Kareem was a great scorer with or without Magic Johnson. Malone has 11 All-NBA 1st Team appearances, 2 MVPs, and better overall statistics than Barkley. He's simply...better.

With regards to Tim Duncan...there's no argument for Barkley here. Tim literally led the Spurs to a ring his sophomore season with an absolutely incredible Finals performance. Don't forget the 2003 Finals, where he had 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 8 blocks in the closeout game. Duncan had a better post up game than Barkley, and was a much better defender and leader than Barkley. Duncan's longevity also shits on Barkley's.

1. I agree, Defense is very important. Remember the quote ''Defense wins championship''

2. In my opinion, KG on offensive and defensive rebounds had more tenacity and with respect to Barkley just being 6'6, but KG is just more capable at rebounds. That's why i give the slight edge for KG.

3. I was not dismissing KG as a playmaker. I was dismissing both them as playmakers as both KG and Barkley abilities at playmaking are not strong points IMO. Not saying their playmaking skills aren't good...just nothing to gloss over for me.

4. NO! JUST NO! Scorer means put the ball in the basket! I don't care how you do it, i mean seriously why does it matter how you do it? When you get a scorer, you want points and no one will take someone like CP3(despite being a very good scorer) over Shaq. You either get more points...or you don't! Unless you got the accolades and records like Kobe, who averages 25 for career but has an 81 point game, multiple 40-60 point games and just tons of scoring records. I brought in FG% because regardless of the topic, if we are talking about putting up points....missing less and more going in is VEEEERY IMPORTANT. Plus you seriously missed my point and completely twisted it, i simply pointed out the fact one player(Barkley) who averages more points and having a better FG%(Garnett) is a huge bonus because not only are you scoring more points but taking less shots at it, which means LESS MISSES and LESS OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE OPPOSITION.

5. HAHAH I'm sorry but the Suns when facing the Bulls, Barkley was not the best player on that team? ARE YOU INSANE!? DO YOU HATE BARKLEY?

Seriously, mentioning all those PFs does not help your case because they are all different players. Not everyone can do this and that. As a huge Griffin fan, i would have to say you are hugely wrong about BG, the dude was obviously a monster, but at that time you, you would trust CP3 on racking up points more at least IMO. Either way my point was not to dismiss Malone or even Duncan's ability to play basketball, i was just pointing out the fact is they would have never been *that good* without their team and we aren't just talking on the same line as whether MJ would have won without Pippen or Kobe would have another 2 rings without Gasol. We are talking about how much they make their team a championship team as an individual. Duncan as good as he was, like i said, seriously needed Pop and Parker and Manu. While Malone needed Stockton just to have a chance. No disrespect to Kevin Johnson but Barkley was the prime reason Pheonix was on the playoff and a damn good team. Spurs is entire team effort which so happens that Duncan was the best player on the team and Malone and Stockton needed each other like almost Kobe and Shaq and MJ and Pippen.

Zack M
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Tim Duncan
7. Hakeem
8. Malone
9. Lebron
10. Kobe

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Lebron at 9? Why so low?

Zack M
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Lebron at 9? Why so low?

I just don't see him above those players. I think he's a bit overrated, IMO.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
In what way is Lebron overrated? He's superior in terms of both accolades (such as MVPs and championships) and/or statistics to:

Wilt
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Malone

Heck, Malone and Hakeem aren't even close. Those who claim Lebron is the GOAT are overrating him, but tbh he's easily a top 3-4 player of all time.

Zack M
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
In what way is Lebron overrated? He's superior in terms of both accolades (such as MVPs and championships) and/or statistics to:

Wilt
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Malone

Heck, Malone and Hakeem aren't even close. Those who claim Lebron is the GOAT are overrating him, but tbh he's easily a top 3-4 player of all time.

He's kind of a choke artist. If it weren't for Wade, Irving, or Ray Allen, he wouldn't have his championships. He's a good player, but that's all I see him now.

I might rank Malone above Duncan. He doesn't have the championships, but he's durable, lasts longer, and has a crap load of points. He's better at offense, but slightly below in defense.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
"He's kind of a choke artist."

Lol. His stats are better in the playoffs than in the regular season. Wade didn't win him any of his championships, neither did Kyrie, hence why Lebron is the one with 3 Finals MVPs. Wanna know why Ray Allen's shot was so iconic? Because Lebron had 13-15 points in the fourth quarter to keep the heat in the game prior to that shot. 2014 Wade averaged 14 points in the finals. In 2012 and 2013 Lebron nearly averaged a Triple Double in the finals. In 2016, Lebron lead BOTH TEAMS in ALL statistical categories, (points rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks). Against a 73-9 team. Get out with this choker nonsense. Its been torn down time and time again.

You can't bring up Lebron being a choker, (which he isn't if you do the research) then bring up Karl Malone, who's historically been recognized as a choker, (albeit a bit unfairly,) being better than Tim freaking Duncan, the most clutch PF ever. Duncan is a better leader, solidly superior defender, (check the stats/all defensive teams,) and comparable offensive player, (and much better in the clutch). And Duncan also had just as much longevity as Karl.

Karl Malone and Hakeem COMBINED:

2 rings
2 Finals MVPs
3 MVPs
2 DPOY awards
0 scoring titles

Lebron:

3 rings
3 Finals MVPs
4 MVPs
0 DPOY
1 scoring title

Only players greater than Lebron are Jordan and Kareem, all things considered. I mean, Karl and Hakeem aren't even close.

Zack M
Yeah, Malone is a choke artist, too. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Fair enough. I guess I just don't understand your logic in this discussion. thumb up

TheHulk
LeBron is not a choke artist but i still won't call him clutch in regards to MJ, Kobe or even Bird or Miller. No stat can prove otherwise as long as LeBron has the mentality to pass rather than take the last shot, even when he has the ability to make it. pft...

Some stats, at least career stats, need to have some context. Because like for example, someone like Shaq averages 23.3 for career but we all know the this big monster easily averages close to 30 points in his early and prime years. It was because he decided to play through old and unheathly age for another 4-6 seasons that affected his career stats.

Zack M
Man, I miss this team. I still think they're the greatest ever.

HOyylTAPZrQ

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
That's because they are.

TheHulk
Pft, If Wade was in his prime with LeBron in the Heat, they would have been the best ever erm

Zack M
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
That's because they are.

thumb up

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by TheHulk
Pft, If Wade was in his prime with LeBron in the Heat, they would have been the best ever erm

Nah. Wade and Lebron were never that great of a fit.

TheHulk
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nah. Wade and Lebron were never that great of a fit. Bullshit, 2 rings together will always say otherwise.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, but that's because Lebron and Wade are so great that they can win two rings not being a great fit. thumb up

Mostly Lebron, though. wink

TheHulk
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, but that's because Lebron and Wade are so great that they can win two rings not being a great fit. thumb up

Mostly Lebron, though. wink Yes, but either way it's not about being a great fit it's about producing results. I believe if both were in their prime years, Wade and LeBron would have dominate. Specifically 06-09 Wade, current or 05-08 LeBron and Raptors Bosh.

Zack M
If Pippen, Jordan and Rodman were in their primes, they'd spank the Heat. When they faced the Jazz both Rodman and Pippen had back problems, IIRC. No way the Heat would take the Bulls.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by TheHulk
Yes, but either way it's not about being a great fit it's about producing results. I believe if both were in their prime years, Wade and LeBron would have dominate. Specifically 06-09 Wade, current or 05-08 LeBron and Raptors Bosh.

Tbh, peak Lebron is 09-14, in terms of both statistics and team accomplishments/personal accolades. And you're also forgetting that the 95-96 Bulls didn't even have peak Jordan, who existed from '87 to '93. I think that the Heat's big three all at their peak are better than the Bulls big 3 at their peak, (Rodman was an inept scorer compared to Bosh, Wade is better than Scottie, and peak Lebron vs peak Jordan is a wash,) but the Bulls big 3 fit together seamlessly, in a way that didn't take away from what they were good at, (Rodman and Pippen weren't stealing points from Jordan, Jordan and Pippen weren't stealing rebounds from Rodman, etc). Whereas that was an issue with Wade and Lebron until Wade ultimately deferred to him.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Zack M
If Pippen, Jordan and Rodman were in their primes, they'd spank the Heat. When they faced the Jazz both Rodman and Pippen had back problems, IIRC. No way the Heat would take the Bulls.

Wade had terrible knees by the time Lebron joined the Heat. The supporting cast of the Bulls gives them the edge, but if the Heat had PEAK Wade and Bosh, and if the Bulls big 3 were also at their peak, that's a great series.

Zack M
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Tbh, peak Lebron is 09-14, in terms of both statistics and team accomplishments/personal accolades. And you're also forgetting that the 95-96 Bulls didn't even have peak Jordan, who existed from '87 to '93. I think that the Heat's big three all at their peak are better than the Bulls big 3 at their peak, (Rodman was an inept scorer compared to Bosh, Wade is better than Scottie, and peak Lebron vs peak Jordan is a wash,) but the Bulls big 3 fit together seamlessly, in a way that didn't take away from what they were good at, (Rodman and Pippen weren't stealing points from Jordan, Jordan and Pippen weren't stealing rebounds from Rodman, etc). Whereas that was an issue with Wade and Lebron until Wade ultimately deferred to him.

Heats big 3 is better at offense, but not defense.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Agreed.

TheHulk
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Tbh, peak Lebron is 09-14, in terms of both statistics and team accomplishments/personal accolades. And you're also forgetting that the 95-96 Bulls didn't even have peak Jordan, who existed from '87 to '93. I think that the Heat's big three all at their peak are better than the Bulls big 3 at their peak, (Rodman was an inept scorer compared to Bosh, Wade is better than Scottie, and peak Lebron vs peak Jordan is a wash,) but the Bulls big 3 fit together seamlessly, in a way that didn't take away from what they were good at, (Rodman and Pippen weren't stealing points from Jordan, Jordan and Pippen weren't stealing rebounds from Rodman, etc). Whereas that was an issue with Wade and Lebron until Wade ultimately deferred to him. I would agree with what you said about, but i rather look at peak abilities. Mid 2000s were LeBron's true young athletic peak years. I did not forgot about 95-96 Jordan because i am not looking into the years they play but just how good they would have been in their primes. With that being said, honestly, following my logic i guess the 03-04 Lakers would have been the greatest team of all time stick out tongue




Originally posted by Zack M
If Pippen, Jordan and Rodman were in their primes, they'd spank the Heat. When they faced the Jazz both Rodman and Pippen had back problems, IIRC. No way the Heat would take the Bulls. Umm i think we can get a good picture of them in their prime better than James, Bosh and Wade, because all we need to do is imagine Piston/Spurs Rodman in the 90-93 Bulls.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.