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Loki vs Sauron from the start of LotR (at full power).

Loki has his staff, Sauron his ring and mace.

No ring finger slicing shenangians.

Does Sauron bind Loki in the darkness or does Loki show Sauron what a real god can do?

Tough one for me. It's hard to gauge if Sauron could hurt Loki. I mean the best we saw him do was take out cannon fodder fighters all equipped with medieval weaponry and armour.

While we know Loki can stand up not only to modern weaponary but sci-fi advanced ones as well.

Also Loki's staff probably packs a lot more punch then anything Sauron had to tank.

So based on screen feats I would have to go with Loki.

Sauron at full power was a giant and running a wrecking crew with that mace. Sauron could mostly likely block those blasts with Magic and his magic skills is certainly above Loki.

Sauron wins

Sauron's power lies in magic and illusion, not being some 10 foot swing and smash.

Newjak those cannon fodder fighters with medieval equipment were the finest Noldor elves and Numenorean men that High King Gil-Galad, King Elendil, Lord Elrond and Prince Isildur could muster.

Their medieval equipment was the finest forged armour and weaponry you could find outside of Gondolin, Sauron fodderizing six to eight of them in one swing is very impressive actually.

The book however has a far more impressive engagement:

Gil-Galad, Elendil, Elrond and Isildur fight him simultaneously. He lifts and burns Gil-Galad to death simply by touching him. He immolates Elendil with ease and whilst basically not paying attention has his finger cut off by Isildur.

Loki is a much stronger combatant than people give him credit for but he is not beating Sauron.

Sauron stomps

This is movie Sauron, not book Sauron. No book "feats" pls.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Gil-Galad, Elendil, Elrond and Isildur fight him simultaneously. He lifts and burns Gil-Galad to death simply by touching him. He immolates Elendil with ease and whilst basically not paying attention has his finger cut off by Isildur.

Not exactly. Gil-Galad does die from the heat of Sauron's hand but Sauron himself is slain while battling Elendil and Gil-Galad. Isildur then walks up to the body and cuts the ring and finger off vanquishing Sauron for a time.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sauron's power lies in magic and illusion, not being some 10 foot swing and smash.

Newjak those cannon fodder fighters with medieval equipment were the finest Noldor elves and Numenorean men that High King Gil-Galad, King Elendil, Lord Elrond and Prince Isildur could muster.

Their medieval equipment was the finest forged armour and weaponry you could find outside of Gondolin, Sauron fodderizing six to eight of them in one swing is very impressive actually.

The book however has a far more impressive engagement:

Gil-Galad, Elendil, Elrond and Isildur fight him simultaneously. He lifts and burns Gil-Galad to death simply by touching him. He immolates Elendil with ease and whilst basically not paying attention has his finger cut off by Isildur.

Loki is a much stronger combatant than people give him credit for but he is not beating Sauron. Except none of that gets conveyed in the movies.

Even if they are the best equipped elves/humans I don't see their equipment holding up to machine gun fire and I definitely have yet to see a Middle Earth person that would be bullet proof. Without question I have yet to see anyone that I would say could take a point blank explosion to the face.

Originally posted by Newjak
Except none of that gets conveyed in the movies.

Even if they are the best equipped elves/humans I don't see their equipment holding up to machine gun fire and I definitely have yet to see a Middle Earth person that would be bullet proof. Without question I have yet to see anyone that I would say could take a point blank explosion to the face.

Unless he gets that ring off his finger which OP says does not happen, his raw power is way above Loki.

What movie feats does Sauron have to support this claim?

how about ***** slapping entire legions of soldiers casually? thats way above Lokis hitting power and general strength levels, and we've all seen the rings power so I think this is worse than a Hulk beatdown on Loki tbh

Originally posted by relentless1
how about ***** slapping entire legions of soldiers casually? thats way above Lokis hitting power and general strength levels, and we've all seen the rings power so I think this is worse than a Hulk beatdown on Loki tbh You really think it is above Loki's hitting power to send people flying with hits.

Look at his fight against Captain America and how easily he was knocking around a superhuman who does casually send people flying with hits. Or even the Shield Agents at the begining of the fight.

Actually the movies never really SHOWS how powerful the ring is. Loki has fought much tougher people and the only battle feats from Sauron are hitting a bunch of people around that aren't even close to Loki in Durability or Power.

Sauron would roflstomp cap, it would be major spite.

Are you unclear of how powerful Sauron is?

Show me Cap or Loki clearing dozens of full armored men with a stroke of their hand.

Sure, Loki can do that to one or two guys but Sauron did it to legions (hundreds) of guys at the same time, do you know how numbers work? Tossing 100 guys >>>>>>>>> tossing 1 or 2 guys. Sauron stomps hard.

Originally posted by relentless1
Sure, Loki can do that to one or two guys but Sauron did it to legions (hundreds) of guys at the same time, do you know how numbers work? Tossing 100 guys >>>>>>>>> tossing 1 or 2 guys. Sauron stomps hard.

Exactly, Cap and Loki would have to hit them individually, Sauron was clearing rows of fully armed men with the stroke of his weapon. I'd like to see Captain or Loki do that.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Sauron would roflstomp cap, it would be major spite.

Are you unclear of how powerful Sauron is?

Show me Cap or Loki clearing dozens of full armored men with a stroke of their hand.
No I think the video posted below shows exactly how powerful Sauron is.

You do realize in the recent Trailer for Avengers Cap can throw a motorcycle hard enough to crush the front of an armored vehicle. Cap is not lacking in the strength department. Heck he can casually toss someone 15-20 feet in the air while treading water.

Loki simply has better durability feats and I have no doubt Loki's weapon will be able to hurt Sauron.



Watch the video again it was not hundreds in one fell swoop.

sX5ff7W7IQQ

Each hit was knocking back something like 6-9 of them. It is a good feat but I don't know if it is enough to go up against someone that that can take point blank explosions to the face. Or someone that can take attacks the blow up cars in one hit.

ok, each hit knocked back about a dozen guys, but he was as nonchalant as a kid swiping his hand through bath water; you haven't proven anything in Lokis favour, in fact this just strengthens my claim that Sauron is stronger. Sauron feat is a Hulk level showing and we all know what happened to Loki when he came up against Hulk...

Originally posted by relentless1
ok, each hit knocked back about a dozen guys, but he was as nonchalant as a kid swiping his hand through bath water; you haven't proven anything in Lokis favour, in fact this just strengthens my claim that Sauron is stronger. Sauron feat is a Hulk level showing and we all know what happened to Loki when he came up against Hulk... It is a good feat but not Hulk level. Ironman could have done something similar. Heck recently Cap was shown in a trailer tossing a motorcycle hard enough to crash the front end of an armored car.

At this point Cap is not lacking strength feats and Loki treat him like a child.

Heck Thor has much better feats than what Sauron displayed and Loki can take shots from him for a limited time.

I still do not see how Sauron is going to hurt Loki while I have no doubt Loki's staff could hurt Sauron.

How does Newjak proving that you were massively overhyping a feat he!p your case?

Originally posted by Newjak
No I think the video posted below shows exactly how powerful Sauron is.

You do realize in the recent Trailer for Avengers Cap can throw a motorcycle hard enough to crush the front of an armored vehicle. Cap is not lacking in the strength department. Heck he can casually toss someone 15-20 feet in the air while treading water.

Loki simply has better durability feats and I have no doubt Loki's weapon will be able to hurt Sauron.



Watch the video again it was not hundreds in one fell swoop.

sX5ff7W7IQQ

Each hit was knocking back something like 6-9 of them. It is a good feat but I don't know if it is enough to go up against someone that that can take point blank explosions to the face. Or someone that can take attacks the blow up cars in one hit.

Captain America motorcycle throw has nothing to do with this fight, the movie isn't even out, and he isn't even in the thread. Is it your way of trying to win by going off topic about a movie that isn't even out? Saying now that Cap beats Sauron is completely asinine now. I always take cap's side in every fight but its far fetched now to say "oh he would beat Sauron." To add I don't even like Sauron but its foolish to have that kinda discussion. Sauron without his body schooled Gandolf easily, who would wreck Loki even easier.

he may have proven that it wasn't hundreds that Sauron smacked away but the video still shows a huge strength showing in how he consistently flicked 10-12 guys away at a time with no effort whatsoever. That is a strength feat I've yet to see Loki even approach replicating

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Captain America motorcycle throw has nothing to do with this fight, the movie isn't even out, and he isn't even in the thread. Is it your way of trying to win by going off topic about a movie that isn't even out? Saying now that Cap beats Sauron is completely asinine now. I always take cap's side in every fight but its far fetched now to say "oh he would beat Sauron." To add I don't even like Sauron but its foolish to have that kinda discussion. Sauron without his body schooled Gandolf easily.

Did I say Cap beat Sauron I was merely pointing out that Sauron sending a few heavily armored men flying is not something new to Loki. I was merely pointing out that someone as strong as Cap, while not as impressively can do things similar to one of Sauron's few battle feats, can be treated as a child against Loki.

At this point in time in the movies that is really Sauron's best combat feat.

Other then heresay and people wanting to quote the books there are not enough or good enough feats to say Sauron has the strength to bypass Loki's physical durability.

Sauron would be more than capable of replicating the feats if the Necromancer as well. Considering the latter is nothing more than a greatly diminished Sauron.

Originally posted by Newjak
Did I say Cap beat Sauron I was merely pointing out that Sauron sending a few heavily armored men flying is not something new to Loki. I was merely pointing out that someone as strong as Cap, while not as impressively can do things similar to one of Sauron's few battle feats, can be treated as a child against Loki.

At this point in time in the movies that is really Sauron's best combat feat.

Other then heresay and people wanting to quote the books there are not enough or good enough feats to say Sauron has the strength to bypass Loki's physical durability.

I never quoted books.

Gandolf took down Balrog which is a bigger feat then anything Loki has done. And Sauron schooled Gandolf w/o a body.

Sauron>Sauron w/o body>Gandolf>Loki

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I never quoted books.

Gandolf took down Balrog which is a bigger feat then anything Loki has done. And Sauron schooled Gandolf w/o a body.

Sauron>Sauron w/o body>Gandolf>Loki I don't think Movie Gandalf > than Loki by any means.

Loki is stronger
More durable
Has much Higher damage output
They maybe equal fighters although Loki has taken on stronger things than anything in Lord of the Rings and survived, Thor/Hulk

Why is taking down the Balrog a bigger feat than anything Loki has done? What feats did it have? Yes it was big but feat wise the Hulk would tear that thing to pieces and Loki survived an encounter with him.

I don't see the Balrog taking an attack that can blow up cars/helicopters.

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't think Movie Gandalf > than Loki by any means.

Loki is stronger
More durable
Has much Higher damage output
They maybe equal fighters although Loki has taken on stronger things than anything in Lord of the Rings and survived, Thor/Hulk

Why is taking down the Balrog a bigger feat than anything Loki has done? What feats did it have? Yes it was big but feat wise the Hulk would tear that thing to pieces and Loki survived an encounter with him.

I don't see the Balrog taking an attack that can blow up cars/helicopters.

Ah I see you are trolling, nvm. The board will handle ya. Its like you didn't even watch LOTR.

where are you getting the idea that Loki has this huge amount of damage out put? everyone he's gone up against physically has gotten the better of him, even hawkeye was able to catch him unawares with an exploding arrow, even a human like Cap was able to get a few shots in and surprise Loki with his skill, even tho Loki was looking to get caught, Cap still looked good in that fight and against someone thats supposedly as physically powerful as Loki is, thats a low showing for him regardless

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ah I see you are trolling, nvm. The board will handle ya. Its like you didn't even watch LOTR. I did watch LOTR and once again what makes the Balrog feat something beyond Loki?

What makes Gandalf better than Loki?

What feats do they have to make them better?

Originally posted by relentless1
where are you getting the idea that Loki has this huge amount of damage out put? everyone he's gone up against physically has gotten the better of him, even hawkeye was able to catch him unawares with an exploding arrow, even a human like Cap was able to get a few shots in and surprise Loki with his skill, even tho Loki was looking to get caught, Cap still looked good in that fight and against someone thats supposedly as physically powerful as Loki is, thats a low showing for him regardless He has more damage output because he has his spear weapon. The thing that can blow up cars helicopters and the like.

Originally posted by Newjak
I did watch LOTR and once again what makes the Balrog feat something beyond Loki?

What makes Gandalf better than Loki?

What feats do they have to make them better?

He has more damage output because he has his spear weapon. The thing that can blow up cars helicopters and the like.

It hit the tail of a helicopter and an unarmored cheap police car.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
It hit the tail of a helicopter and an unarmored cheap police car. And destroyed them which is better offensive output then anything shown in the lord of the rings by a single person. It also blew off half large portion of the Stark building when he fought Thor so there is that as well.

I also like how you ignored the rest of it.

First of all, a bird would destroy a helicopter tail roter. A grenade launcher would do the same thing to a small cheap car.

It didn't destroy a large portion of the stark building, it took off part of the sign. Your acting like the spear he has Odins spear, it wasn't...

New jack, pretty piss poor moves here. Im done talking to you if you going to overhype and exaggerate and lie about feats.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
First of a broom would destroy a helicopter tail roter. A grenade launcher would do the same thing to a small cheap car.

It didn't destroy a large portion of the stark building, it took off part of the sign.

New jack, pretty piss poor moves here. Im done talking to you if you going to overhype and exaggerate and lie about feats. A broom would not actually do that.

And Grenade Launcher would still be more firepower than anything shown in middle earth by one person.

9jqZQWuuaF8 That is not a small piece of brittle material that gets blown up

Always have to get the last word in even if it has nothing to do with what I said.

I edited before you compulsively pressed refresh and said "bird"

Loki has his staff and Sauron has his mace, so what are you getting at? Thor hammer was able to counter Lokis staff rather easily, no reason to think Saurons mace wouldn't be able to do the same.

Originally posted by Newjak

And Grenade Launcher would still be more firepower than anything shown in middle earth by one person.



This comment shows that you literally have no clue what you are taking about. A grenade launcher is not more firepower then anything shown in middle earth. You literally didn't watch the movies or have a clue what you are talking about. Trolling 101 here.

Mjolnir's feats >>>>>> mace feats. you have zero basis for claiming that Mjolnir being able to do something means that the mace can replicate it.

and you have zero proof that it can't either, all three weapons are laced with magic but can also be used physically, is it really that big a stretch to think?

Going by on screwn feats Thor's hammer has better feats then the mace.

But going by Saurons mace vs Loki's staff. He was wiping the floor with an Army and would have kept doing so besides pis/cis.

New jack is having a problem understanding that Sauron is above Loki in Magic and strength though.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
This comment shows that you literally have no clue what you are taking about. A grenade launcher is not more firepower then anything shown in middle earth. You literally didn't watch the movies or have a clue what you are talking about. Trolling 101 here. I have seen the movies the fact that is your only counter proves something about your stance.

You should be showing me a feat that supports your claims instead of saying I haven't seen the movie.

Originally posted by relentless1
and you have zero proof that it can't either, all three weapons are laced with magic but can also be used physically, is it really that big a stretch to think? Yeah it is actually.

Originally posted by Newjak
I have seen the movies the fact that is your only counter proves something about your stance.

You should be showing me a feat that supports your claims instead of saying I haven't seen the movie.

Your claim.

Originally posted by Newjak

And Grenade Launcher would still be more firepower than anything shown in middle earth by one person.



Any of the magic used by Sauron, Gandalf or Saruman>grenade launcher

Smog>grenade launcher

Siege Weapons used by the orcs>grenade launcher

Balrog>grenade launcher

To add, have you ever actually fired a grenade launcher? Because they really are not that powerful.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Your claim.



Any of the magic used by Sauron, Gandalf or Saruman>grenade launcher

Smog>grenade launcher

Siege Weapons used by the orcs>grenade launcher

Balrog>grenade launcher

To add, have you ever actually fired a grenade launcher? Because they really are not that powerful. None of the magic used by Sauron or Gandalf or Saruman > than a grenade launcher. I will admit I overlooked Smaug who was definitely destructive but that's about it.

I don't see the balrog doing better.

Originally posted by Newjak
None of the magic used by Sauron or Gandalf or Saruman > than a grenade launcher. I will admit I overlooked Smaug who was definitely destructive but that's about it.

I don't see the balrog doing better.

Grenade launchers a weak in real life and they could replicate any feat Loki's staff did, that thing was not that powerful compared to Gungir..

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Grenade launchers a weak in real life and they could replicate any feat Loki's staff did, that thing was not that powerful compared to Gungir.. I don't know about you but that sign Loki blew off was not small if Grenade Launcher could that then yes it is better than anything those three showed.

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't know about you but that sign Loki blew off was not small if Grenade Launcher could that then yes it is better than anything those three showed.

So first it was you claiming that nothing in LOTR was more powerful then a grenade launcher, which was disproved.

Then you claimed that his weapon took out a chopper and a car, when in fact it just hit the weakest portion on the chopper and flipped the car over.

It was also you claiming that a large portion of the building was blown off when in fact it was only part of the sign on the exterior of the building.

You have proved you really don't have your facts straight about what you are debating.

You never fired a grenade launcher in real life so you really don't have a clue about them.

End of discussion.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So first it was you claiming that nothing in LOTR was more powerful then a grenade launcher, which was disproved.

Then you claimed that his weapon took out a chopper and a car, when in fact it just hit the weakest portion on the chopper and flipped the car over.

It was also you claiming that a large portion of the building was blown off when in fact it was only part of the sign on the exterior of the building.

You have proved you really don't have your facts straight about what you are debating.

You never fired a grenade launcher in real life so you really don't have a clue about them.

End of discussion. Both the Chopper and Car claim were true.

You were the one who brought up the grenade launcher initially. If a grenade launcher can do those things then a grenade launcher would be more powerful than Sauron/Gandlaf/Sarumon.

I large chunk of the building did get blown off. I don't know if you know but that sign was huge!!!!! Probably weighing many tons.

The funny thing is this is nothing more than a stall. You guys have yet to actually provide any feats that say Sauron can damage much less hang with Loki.

Originally posted by Newjak
Both the Chopper and Car claim were true.

You were the one who brought up the grenade launcher initially. If a grenade launcher can do those things then a grenade launcher would be more powerful than Sauron/Gandlaf/Sarumon.

I large chunk of the building did get blown off. I don't know if you know but that sign was huge!!!!! Probably weighing many tons.

The funny thing is this is nothing more than a stall. You guys have yet to actually provide any feats that say Sauron can damage much less hang with Loki.

Do you not understand a sign hanging off a building vs saying a large chunk of the building was blow off. I refuse to believe you are this ignorant.

Building>Sign hanging off weighing many tons.

Loki gets beat the fck down by the mace.

End of story.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Do you not understand a sign hanging off a building vs saying a large chunk of the building was blow off. I refuse to believe you are this ignorant.

Building>Sign hanging off weighing many tons.

Loki gets beat the fck down by the mace.

End of story. If it stops you from going on a tangent I'm sorry I said large chunk instead of sign.

Still the point remains nothing Sauron did is better than attacks Loki has already tanked.

Thing like Machine Gun fire, bullet to the face, Iron Man's Repulsor blasts, and an exploding arrow to the face.

Getting pummeled on by the Hulk and Thor since they objectively have better feats than Sauron.

Originally posted by Newjak
If it stops you from going on a tangent I'm sorry I said large chunk instead of sign.

Still the point remains nothing Sauron did is better than attacks Loki has already tanked.

Thing like Machine Gun fire, bullet to the face, Iron Man's Repulsor blasts, and an exploding arrow to the face.

Getting pummeled on by the Hulk and Thor since they objectively have better feats than Sauron.

Are you seriously ignoring Sauron's magic mace and saying cause loki is bulletproof he cant take a beating?

I guess you missed Thor saying in TDW, that he always held back on Loki, and he would kill him if wanted too. Loki getting beat down by Thor holding back does not give him the win over Sauron. Lady Siff and Warriors 3 even said they would kill him.

Loki was constantly getting tooled by everyone.

Sauron handles him with some difficultly due to his durability but he will handle him.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Are you seriously ignoring Sauron's magic mace and saying cause loki is bulletproof he cant take a beating?

I guess you missed Thor saying in TDW, that he always held back on Loki, and he would kill him if wanted too. Loki getting beat down by Thor holding back does not give him the win over Sauron. Lady Siff and Warriors 3 even said they would kill him.

Loki was constantly getting tooled by everyone.

Sauron handles him with some difficultly due to his durability but he will handle him. I'm not ignoring it. It just doesn't have the feats to suggest he bypasses Loki's pretty good damage soak considering what has taken.

Hulk was not holding back.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not ignoring it. It just doesn't have the feats to suggest he bypasses Loki's pretty good damage soak considering what has taken.

Hulk was not holding back.

Strawmen are out in force today trolling huh, cause thats not what I said, Newjack.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Strawmen are out in force today trolling huh, cause thats not what I said, Newjack. First of all spell my name right. It is Newjak.

Next what are you saying you did not say?

Originally posted by Newjak
First of all spell my name right. It is Newjak.

Next what are you saying you did not say?

Where did I say Hulk was not holding back?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Where did I say Hulk was not holding back? You pointed out Thor was holding back so I pointed out while that maybe true, THor does get serious in his fights with Loki sometimes, Hulk was not holding back. Basically it doesn't matter if Thor was holding back cause the beating he got from Hulk was 100% go. And Hulk is still objectively way stronger than anything Sauron has done.

To be fair, While I believe Sauron def has the sheer power advantage here (no question IMO), Loki's advantage stems from 3 things: the fact that his weapon is a ranged weapon, the fact that Sauron doesn't move very fast in the movies and the fact that standard VS fights have some distance between combatants.

Originally posted by Newjak
You pointed out Thor was holding back so I pointed out while that maybe true, THor does get serious in his fights with Loki sometimes, Hulk was not holding back. Basically it doesn't matter if Thor was holding back cause the beating he got from Hulk was 100% go. And Hulk is still objectively way stronger than anything Sauron has done.

While that maybe true, so him stating on screen that it was true is a maybe to you.

I wont be bothering talking to about this anymore as you continue to ignore on screen facts.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not ignoring it. It just doesn't have the feats to suggest he bypasses Loki's pretty good damage soak considering what has taken.

Hulk was not holding back. Different kinds of damage. It is like comparing a punch to a stab. Isn't the same thing, junior.

Sauron wins.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
To be fair, While I believe Sauron def has the sheer power advantage here (no question IMO), Loki's advantage stems from 3 things: the fact that his weapon is a ranged weapon, the fact that Sauron doesn't move very fast in the movies and the fact that standard VS fights have some distance between combatants.

Why do you need to move fast when your strikes have a large area of impact. As to his ranged weapon, Sauron can block those with a magic shield. Loki has that ranged weapon and always engaged H2H with his opponents.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Why do you need to move fast when your strikes have a large area of impact. As to his ranged weapon, Sauron can block those with a magic shield. Loki has that ranged weapon and always engaged H2H with his opponents.

Did he ever manifest a magic shield tho? I don't recall him ever pitting up any kind of barrier, even in his flaming eye form.

And aren't standard Vs starting distances like around 50 meters or somesuch? Can't remeber atm, but around that distance isn't it too far for Sauron's melee attack?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Did he ever manifest a magic shield tho? I don't recall him ever pitting up any kind of barrier, even in his flaming eye form

He was using a competing barrier against Gandalf before he owned him.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
He was using a competing barrier against Gandalf before he owned him.

Looked to me more than a shadow attack overwhelming Gandalf's light shield. But I digress. Just inserting some ideas into the thread, won't debate in it atm as I have no solid opinion so far.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Looked to me more than a shadow attack overwhelming Gandalf's light shield. But I digress. Just inserting some ideas into the thread, won't debate in it atm as I have no solid opinion so far.

Would it be that far of a stretch to think that the most powerful person in middle earth could not produce a shield but his lessors could?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Would it be that far of a stretch to think that the most powerful person in middle earth could not produce a shield but his lessors could? That would be like me saying because Thor is more powerful than Loki he should be able to use Loki's illusions.

Just because one person can do something does not mean someone else can do something because they are more powerful. I mean in certain cases it could true but it is not enough by itself to make that statement correct.

Originally posted by Newjak
That would be like me saying because Thor is more powerful than Loki he should be able to use Loki's illusions.

Just because one person can do something does not mean someone else can do something because they are more powerful. I mean in certain cases it could true but it is not enough by itself to make that statement correct.

No it would not, because Sauron did use barriers.

You made plenty of false claims in this thread, don't add to them.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
No it would not, because Sauron did use barriers.

You made plenty of false claims in this thread, don't add to them. When did he use barriers?

His fight with Gandalf?

Its like you ask a question only to answer it yourself.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Its like you ask a question only to answer it yourself. I'm trying to remember when he used a barrier in that fight.

So basically you think Loki is immune to damage, if that was the case, he would not have been getting tooled around by everyone. And that because he stood up to sci fi weapons, that must makes him immune to magic as well. If thats not the worst logic there is, I dunno what else to tell you, its like you say

"No Loki cant be hurt"

but

"No, he can't be hurt by magic either because Ironman hit him with his repulsers which did nothing to him but knock him over!"

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So basically you think Loki is immune to damage, if that was the case, he would not have been getting tooled around by everyone. And that because he stood up to sci fi weapons, that must makes him immune to magic as well. If thats not the worst logic there is, I dunno what else to tell you, its like you say

"No Loki cant be hurt"

but

"No, he can't be hurt by magic either because Ironman hit him with his repulsers which did nothing to him but knock him over!" Your reply to me about when did Sauron use a barrier in his fight with Gandalf is this.

I never said he was immune to damage I said he has demonstrated high durability throughout his movie appearances. Gave specific examples of that.

I also never said magic could not potentially hurt him but I am not going to take magic is awesome as an answer. How much offensive output does this magic have. Is stronger than an Ironman Repulsor blast. Not by feats.

Honestly you are the ones trying to apply no limits to something while I'm trying to actually look at feats.

As to mentioning SCi-Fi weapons and modern weapons it is pertinent. Sauron existed in place and time where they were still Medieval in their technology. Their armor had arrows could pierce them. Even elven armor. Their swords were steel. As far as we can tell no one on Middle Earth has had to tank an attack of modern or sci-fi type lethality, with the exception of Smaug's offensive output but no one survived a hit from his attack so it doesn't look good.

Sauron's best feats are knocking a group of people into the air which is a good feat but not even close to the damage that Loki has had to deal with. Sauron's other feat is beating Gandalf who is still a squishy human that can get cuts and scraps like a normal person.

He also had his fingers cut off by a sword, yes it was a sharp sword but we don't know if it was adamantium level or just slightly better than a normal sword. Considering it was reforged by elves probably means it is not terribly greater than a normal sword.

Originally posted by Newjak

Sauron's best feats are knocking a group of people into the air which is a good feat but not even close to the damage that Loki has had to deal with. Sauron's other feat is beating Gandalf who is still a squishy human that can get cuts and scraps like a normal person.


So you only counting Saurons opening screen feats, none of his other ones, yet Loki's gets all his feats from all the movies.

Its like you didn't even watch the movies.

You are an extremely bias poster who picks and chooses feats, since you always want the last word, you can have it.

You aint worth my time. I wont be responding again to this horse shit of posting style from you. Ill just keep quoting over you and wont care what you post now cause its clear you just want to piss me off.

You state I'm only counting the opening screen feats but in the same post you quote I mention him beating Gandalf which happened in the Hobbit movies.

But those are his only feats.

Unless you want to give me some more I'm missing?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So you only counting Saurons opening screen feats, none of his other ones, yet Loki's gets all his feats from all the movies.

Its like you didn't even watch the movies.

You are an extremely bias poster who picks and chooses feats, since you always want the last word, you can have it.

You aint worth my time. I wont be responding again to this horse shit of posting style from you. Ill just keep quoting over you and wont care what you post now cause its clear you just want to piss me off.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I'm giving you a chance to post feats that I may have missed? A chance to show me the feats that make your case and this is what you give?

Sauron TK's Loki staff and then treats him like a Rag doll with his TK.

/thread

How strong is his TK?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Sauron TK's Loki staff and then treats him like a Rag doll with his TK then BFR's him into oblivion.

/thread

Originally posted by Newjak
How strong is his TK? I can quote my previous post as well

Watch the movie, like you never did, mr last word.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Watch the movie, like you never did, mr last word. I have watched the movie.

I'm asking how strong his TK is because throwing around Gandalf is not enough for me to believe he will beat Loki with it.

Is there something else he has done with it that I'm forgetting?

z7_U6y8kJaY

>applying no limits fallacy
>suggests Loki can resist his tk is laughable
>applying no limits fallacys in every argument.
>again ignoring movie feats

Owned again.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Sauron TK's Loki staff and then treats him like a Rag doll with his TK.

/thread

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
z7_U6y8kJaY

>applying no limits fallacy
>suggests Loki can resist his tk is laughable
>applying no limits fallacys in every argument.
>again ignoring movie feats

Owned again. Finally you've posted an actual feat!!!!!!!

And that is better than I remember it being still flinging around Gandalf does not make him some ultimate TK power.

His shadow attack that caused the bridge to collapse is a much better attack. I'm still not totally convinced that is enough to put Loki down but it is a much better start then what you've given so far.

Originally posted by Newjak
Finally you've posted an actual feat!!!!!!!

And that is better than I remember it being still flinging around Gandalf does not make him some ultimate TK power.

His shadow attack that caused the bridge to collapse is a much better attack. I'm still not totally convinced that is enough to put Loki down but it is a much better start then what you've given so far.

I never said "ultimate TK power"

I said takes his staff, TK's him down then beats him silly with magic and the mace.

He has more then enough power on mulitple levels between TK, Dark Magic based attacks and physical attacks to win.

Loki does not stand a chance.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I never said "ultimate TK power"

I said takes his staff, TK's him down then beats him silly with magic and the mace.

He has more then enough power on mulitple levels between TK, Dark Magic based attacks and physical attacks to win.

Loki does not stand a chance. Loki is much stronger physically than Gandalf, Ridiculously so. What makes you think that he will be able to just yank the staff out of Loki's hands.

Also I have serious doubts that Sauron can put down Loki when he can survive things like this

Fn8w30rsVUE

Yes it is in Spanish but all you need to see is the Bifrost explosion. That is objectively a more powerful attack than what Sauron showed in the video you posted. Loki survived it point blank range.

Doesn't matter, he has no way to resist being held down by TK and Sauron having time to beat him silly with magic and his mace. Name on instance of a person resisting a TK pull from anyone in any movie. He gets his staff yanked.

TK wins

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I never said "ultimate TK power"

I said takes his staff, TK's him down then beats him silly with magic and the mace.

He has more then enough power on mulitple levels between TK, Dark Magic based attacks and physical attacks to win.

Loki does not stand a chance.

Don't forget his telepathic attacks as well. He was mind f***ing Pippin and effortlessly KO'ed Aragorn through the palantir.

Originally posted by ares834
Don't forget his telepathic attacks as well. He was mind f***ing Pippin and effortlessly KO'ed Aragorn through the palantir.

He would find fck him also

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Doesn't matter, he has no way to resist being held down by TK and Sauron having time to beat him silly with magic and his mace. Name on instance of a person resisting a TK pull from anyone in any movie. He gets his staff yanked.

TK wins Unless Loki is you know Strong enough to resist the TK holding down or strong enough to keep the the force of the TK from forcing the staff out of his hand.

You want to talk no limits fallacy and that is the line of thinking you want to go with? TK always works.

Originally posted by Newjak
Unless Loki is you know Strong enough to resist the TK holding down or strong enough to keep the the force of the TK from forcing the staff out of his hand.

You want to talk no limits fallacy and that is the line of thinking you want to go with? TK always works.


Sauron wins via TK, and TP.

I know you refuse to yield but you lost.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Sauron wins via TK, and TP.

I know you refuse to yield but you lost. Except you have not proven Sauron's TK is strong enough to hold off Loki's strength.

Also I would be worried about Sauron's TP if Loki was holding the palantir.

Of course Loki does have the mind gem, the thing that allows his mind to talk across the galaxy, in his staff so probably a moot point anyways.

Originally posted by Newjak
Except you have not proven Sauron's TK is strong enough to hold off Loki's strength.

Also I would be worried about Sauron's TP if Loki was holding the palantir.

Of course Loki does have the mind gem, the thing that allows his mind to talk across the galaxy, in his staff so probably a moot point anyways.

Nope.

Pins him against the ground then proceeds to mind rape, bash him with the mace, and hit him with all his dark magic.

Ur argument "Loki can't be beat!"

LOL

Originally posted by Newjak
Also I would be worried about Sauron's TP if Loki was holding the palantir.

Good point. It's not as if Sauron's corrupting mental influence is pretty much the whole point of the trilogy.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Nope. That's your big rebuttal.

You've only shown a feat this entire match. I've shown Loki objectively taking a blast that was tougher than the one you posted.

You've shown Sauron TKing Gandalf who by far weaker than Loki and are trying to say that automatically means Sauron can TK Loki just as easily.

You sure you don't want to try something called actual evidence to prove your point? I mean you started to do so much better when you posted on the feat.

Doesn't matter.

You lost.

Keep antagonizing, cause you good at it

Let me guess Loki is heavier then Gandalf so now Sauron cant TK Loki

Originally posted by ares834
Good point. It's not as if Sauron's corrupting mental influence is pretty much the whole point of the trilogy. And all his best TP feats are through devices that linked directly to his power like the palantir and the ring

Originally posted by Newjak
And all his best TP feats are through devices that linked directly to his power like the palantir and the ring

And? He has the ring here dummy.. You are not gaining any traction here.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Doesn't matter.

You lost.

Keep antagonizing, cause you good at it You know declaring yourself the victor does not make you so.

And now you've gone back to just baseless claims again.

Originally posted by Newjak
And all his best TP feats are through devices that linked directly to his power like the palantir and the ring

So the palantir, according to you, boosts his TP powers. Got any evidence for that?

Originally posted by Newjak
You know declaring yourself the victor does not make you so.

And now you've gone back to just baseless claims again.

Like you did..

"Because he didn't TK someone exactly Loki in LOTR, he can't do in this fight"



U sound really butthurt you cant win this one..

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
And? He has the ring here dummy.. You are not gaining any traction here. Traction from what? First off mind messing a human and a hobbit is not the same as messing with the Mind of Loki who is in possession of the Mind Gem.

Secondly it would be nice to see how his TP works when people aren't using items that tie directly to his mind.

Originally posted by ares834
So the palantir, according to you, boosts his TP powers. Got any evidence for that?

He's got zero evidence for anything at this point.

Originally posted by Newjak
Traction from what? First off mind messing a human and a hobbit is not the same as messing with the Mind of Loki who is in possession of the Mind Gem.

Secondly it would be nice to see how his TP works when people aren't using items that tie directly to his mind.

Not really.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Like you did..

"Because he didn't TK someone exactly Loki in LOTR, he can't do in this fight"



U sound really butthurt you cant win this one.. I've explained Loki is stronger than anyone Sauron has TKed. Now you have to prove that Sauron's TK is strong enough to hold someone that strong down.

Otherwise you are applying a no limits fallacy to Sauron's TK power.

Lifts Loki and suspends him mid Air, takes his Staff, shoves it up his ass, then beats him down with his mace and magic.

Originally posted by ares834
So the palantir, according to you, boosts his TP powers. Got any evidence for that? I did not say it boosted it. I said he has only been seen using it through items that are directly related to him. It would be nice to see him use TP without it.

And once again Loki has the Mind Gem in this fight so I think it is a moot point.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Lifts Loki and suspends him mid Air, takes his Staff, shoves it up his ass, then beats him down with his mace and magic. He does this while Loki shoots him with the staff?

Is his TK strong enough to break Loki's grip? If so prove it?

The mind gem lets him control others. So far it hasn't been shown to provide any sorta mental defense.

Originally posted by Newjak
He does this while Loki shoots him with the staff?

Is his TK strong enough to break Loki's grip? If so prove it?

Lifts Loki and suspends him mid Air, takes is Staff, shoves it up his ass, then beats him down with his mace and magic.

Originally posted by ares834
The mind gem lets him control others. So far it hasn't been shown to provide any sorta mental defense. By that logic what prevents Loki from you know taking over Sauron since Sauron has never shown TP defense?

Originally posted by ares834
The mind gem lets him control others. So far it hasn't been shown to provide any sorta mental defense.

According to him it provides mental defense even though it was never shown to.

Originally posted by Newjak
He does this while Loki shoots him with the staff?

Is his TK strong enough to break Loki's grip? If so prove it?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Lifts Loki and suspends him mid Air, takes is Staff, shoves it up his ass, then beats him down with his mace and magic.

You cant prove Loki is strong enough to resist TK, show me once instance of him being able to.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You cant prove Loki is strong enough to resist TK, show me once instance of him being able to. I've proven he is stronger than anyone Sauron has used TK on.

Now prove Sauron's TK is strong enough to effect someone on Loki's strength level.

Originally posted by Newjak
I've proven he is stronger than anyone Sauron has used TK on.

Now prove Sauron's TK is strong enough to effect someone on Loki's strength level.

You didn't. One does not resist TK, are you unaware of how TK works? He can now resist being lifted in Mid Air?

Originally posted by Newjak
By that logic what prevents Loki from you know taking over Sauron since Sauron has never shown TP defense?

Well first Sauron's mental powers come from the strength of his own will not that of a stone. Secondly, an argument could be made that the stone could control him. Of course that requires Loki to tap him on the chest and Sauron's armor may very well protect him like Stark's generator did.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You didn't. Yes I have. Sauron has only TKed Gandalf. Loki is much stronger based on feats.

For instance in the same video you posted Gandalf gets nocked down by an Orc, a strong Orc I'll give you that. Loki treated Cap, who makes that Orc look a baby, like a child in their fight.

Therefore Loki is much stronger than Gandalf. So now prove that Sauron's TK is better to prove he can match Loki's strength.

Originally posted by ares834
Well first Sauron's mental powers come from the strength of his own will not that of a stone. Secondly, an argument could be made that the stone could control him. Of course that requires Loki to tap him on the chest and Sauron's armor may very well protect him like Stark's generator did. The mind gem can effect people without touching them, like it did to the Avengers when they argued.

Next you say the Mind Gem can not provide Loki with TP protection because it hasn't shown but now Sauron has TP protection because he has never shown it?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You didn't. One does not resist TK, are you unaware of how TK works? He can now resist being lifted in Mid Air? TK is a force that is exerted. He very well could put Loki in the air but that doesn't stop Loki from shooting Sauron with the scepter now does it.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yes I have. Sauron has only TKed Gandalf. Loki is much stronger based on feats.

For instance in the same video you posted Gandalf gets nocked down by an Orc, a strong Orc I'll give you that. Loki treated Cap, who makes that Orc look a baby, like a child in their fight.

Therefore Loki is much stronger than Gandalf. So now prove that Sauron's TK is better to prove he can match Loki's strength.

>Implying physical force is the same as telekenisis

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
>Implying physical force is the same as telekenisis If he is trying to pull the staff from Loki's hand with it yes it does matter. At that point is Loki's Strength to hold unto the staff vs Sauron's TK power to pull it from him.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Going by on screwn feats Thor's hammer has better feats then the mace.

But going by Saurons mace vs Loki's staff. He was wiping the floor with an Army and would have kept doing so besides pis/cis.

New jack is having a problem understanding that Sauron is above Loki in Magic and strength though.

Wait WUT? When in the movie did it even mention his mace was magical or could do anything magical ? Both you and relentless keep saying this and where is that part in the movies. Shoot I'd like to see you post the narration in the The HObbit saying that or LOTR

Originally posted by Newjak
TK is a force that is exerted. He very well could put Loki in the air but that doesn't stop Loki from shooting Sauron with the scepter now does it.

Oh yes cause he can't pull is staff away when he had enough raw power to destroy a stone bridge, treat Gandalf who is extremely strong like a rag doll.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wait WUT? When in the movie did it even mention his mace was magical or could do anything magical ? Both you and relentless keep saying this and where is that part in the movies. Shoot I'd like to see you post the narration in the The HObbit saying that or LOTR

Are you dumb, cause I didn't say that..

Read what you quoted before you type.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Oh yes cause he can't pull is staff away when he had enough raw power to destroy a stone bridge, treat Gandalf who is extremely strong like a rag doll. Gandalf is not extremely Strong. In the same video you posted a relatively strong Orc knocks him down.

Gandalf's own TK was barely keeping the Orc back. Loki based on feats would have manhandled that Orc like a baby.

And Loki is once again strong to toy with Captain America.

Originally posted by Newjak
The mind gem can effect people without touching them, like it did to the Avengers when they argued.

So it can make Sauron pissed? Yeah. Sure, it can influence Sauron a bit. Not really seeing how this helps Loki.

Originally posted by Newjak
Next you say the Mind Gem can not provide Loki with TP protection because it hasn't shown but now Sauron has TP protection because he has never shown it?

The hell? The two aren't comparable at all. Sauron's power is based on his immense will whereas Lokis is based on a magic stone.

Originally posted by Newjak
Gandalf is not extremely Strong. In the same video you posted a relatively strong Orc knocks him down.

Gandalf's own TK was barely keeping the Orc back. Loki based on feats would have manhandled that Orc like a baby.

Flip flop

Originally posted by Newjak
Gandalf is not extremely Strong. In the same video you posted a relatively strong Orc knocks him down.

Gandalf's own TK was barely keeping the Orc back. Loki based on feats would have manhandled that Orc like a baby.

And Loki is once again strong to toy with Captain America.

Are you serious suggesting that because he tooled Captain America he can now resist TK.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Flip flop How?

Originally posted by ares834
So it can make Sauron pissed? Yeah. Sure, it can influence Sauron a bit. Not really seeing how this helps Loki.



The hell? The two aren't comparable at all. Sauron power is based on his immense will whereas Lokis is based on a magic stone. Or make him afraid.

So because of the source you are willing to give Sauron the benefit of a doubt how sweet of you.

Originally posted by Newjak
Or make him afraid.

So because of the source you are willing to give Sauron the benefit of a doubt how sweet of you.

Willpower has almost always been used to overcome mental influence. So yeah.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Are you serious suggesting that because he tooled Captain America he can now resist TK. You are in love with this word TK. It is not some magic plot device that magically makes anything it acts against helpless.

If something can exert an equal or greater force against it the TK won't work.

So in order for him to take the staff away he has to be able to exert greater force than Loki can. Me showing that he can tool Captain America shows how strong Loki is the best you have holding Gandalf down. That is not that great. comparatively

Originally posted by ares834
Willpower has almost always been used to overcome mental influence. So yeah. And items that grant mental control have traditionally as well. I don't see you using that as an argument.

Originally posted by Newjak
You are in love with this word TK. It is not some magic plot device that magically makes anything it acts against helpless.

If something can exert an equal or greater force against it the TK won't work.

So in order for him to take the staff away he has to be able to exert greater force than Loki can. Me showing that he can tool Captain America shows how strong Loki is the best you have holding Gandalf down. That is not that great. comparatively

Its an invisible force that unless you have a the opposite of the invisible force such as shown in movies like LOTR and Star Wars, Push, Chronicles and other movies, you cant defend against it.

Him tooling Cap with physical force means nothing if he getting TK'd.

How about this, he TK's him in the air, turns him around and shoves his mace up his ass.

Gandalf was trading blows with Balrog, so yea he does have some uber strength feats.

Originally posted by Newjak
And items that grant mental control have traditionally as well. I don't see you using that as an argument.

Where? The only one I can think of is the stone from the comics itself.

Edit: Hell, the rings of power all pretty much grant some capacity of telepathic power in LotR yet none of them give the bearers mental defense. Rather the opposite in most cases.

Dark Magic Powers>Sauron>Loki
TK Powers>Sauron>Loki
Mind Powers>Sauron> Loki
Raw Power>Sauron>Loki
Strength>Sauron>Loki
Durability>Loki>Sauron

You won bro, Loki is more durable, like we didn't already know that.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Its an invisible force that unless you have a the opposite of the invisible force such as shown in movies like LOTR and Star Wars, Push, Chronicles and other movies, you cant defend against it.

Him tooling Cap with physical force means nothing if he getting TK'd.

How about this, he TK's him in the air, turns him around and shoves his mace up his ass.

Gandalf was trading blows with Balrog, so yea he does have some uber strength feats. That's your counter it is invisible therefore everyone is defenseless against it? That's not how it works. That is a poor argument.

I don't think Sauron hitting Loki with his mace is going to hurt Loki really so he could do that. I don't think it will help.

Originally posted by ares834
Where? The only one I can think of is the stone from the comics itself.

Edit: Hell, the rings of power all pretty much grant some capacity of telepathic power in LotR yet none of them give the bearers mental defense. Rather the opposite in most cases.

Exactly they all fed Sauron.

One ring to rule them all.

Originally posted by Newjak
That's your counter it is invisible therefore everyone is defenseless against it? That's not how it works. That is a poor argument.

I don't think Sauron hitting Loki with his mace is going to hurt Loki really so he could do that. I don't think it will help.

Your argument that because he tooled Cap now makes him strong enough to resist is laughable.

Thats not how it works and is a poor argument.

Again applying no limits fallacy to loki..

Originally posted by ares834
Where? The only one I can think of is the stone from the comics itself.

Edit: Hell, the rings of power all pretty much grant some capacity of telepathic power in LotR yet none of them give the bearers mental defense. Rather the opposite in most cases. That's because Sauron specifically made the ring to rule them. As the story says they were deceived.

That actually hurts your case cause now it seems like Sauron does need something to link him to his victim's minds. Psi helmets often give people TP and TP protection. Magical artifacts like amulets in TV shows. It is not that knew.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Your argument that because he tooled Cap now makes him strong enough to resist is laughable.

Thats not how it works and is a poor argument.

Again applying no limits fallacy to loki.. No it's showing how strong Loki is now you have to prove Sauron's TK is enough to match that. Holding down Gandalf does not prove that.

Originally posted by Newjak
That's because Sauron specifically made the ring to rule them. As the story says they were deceived.

That actually hurts your case cause now it seems like Sauron does need something to link him to his victim's minds. Psi helmets often give people TP and TP protection. Magical artifacts like amulets in TV shows. It is not that knew.

So because Loki tricked some weak feeb minds with the gem, he can now TP Sauron..lol! Another great one from you.

Show the mind rape working on anyone with powers such as Sauron.

If not just concede to the whole argument.

Originally posted by Newjak
No it's showing how strong Loki is now you have to prove Sauron's TK is enough to match that. Holding down Gandalf does not prove that.

Tooling Captain America means he can resist TK according to you?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So because Loki tricked some weak feeb minds with the gem, he can now TP Sauron..lol! Another great one from you.

Show the mind rape working on anyone with powers such as Sauron.

If not just concede to the whole argument.

Yeah, this is just getting silly now. Willpower has almost always been tied with mental defense including in LotR itself.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Are you dumb, cause I didn't say that..

Read what you quoted before you type.

This coming from someone you can tell difference between quotes and adjectives. Relentless made the claim about the mace being magical. YOu then picked up the torch about the mace being powerful. Simple

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So because Loki tricked some weak feeb minds with the gem, he can now TP Sauron..lol! Another great one from you.

Show the mind rape working on anyone with powers such as Sauron.

If not just concede to the whole argument. You guys really have no idea how logic works right?

You keep saying I apply a no limits fallacy to Loki but all you have been doing is trying to apply a no limits fallacy to Sauron.

According to you Sauron could take something away that the Hulk was holding because well TK. That's a poort argument.

Now apparently you're saying that because no one has tried TP one Sauron that he must be immune to it?

Originally posted by ares834
Yeah, this is just getting silly now.

Got a few Pm's from people that Newjack is a huge Thor Fan boy so its no wonder its going this way..

Originally posted by relentless1
and you have zero proof that it can't either, all three weapons are laced with magic but can also be used physically, is it really that big a stretch to think?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Tooling Captain America means he can resist TK according to you? It means that if someone is going to try and rip something out of his hand or hold him down on the ground then they are going to need enough TK strength to do these things.

You need to show Sauron has that level of TK strength. So far you have not.

Originally posted by Newjak
You guys really have no idea how logic works right?

You keep saying I apply a no limits fallacy to Loki but all you have been doing is trying to apply a no limits fallacy to Sauron.

According to you Sauron could take something away that the Hulk was holding because well TK. That's a poort argument.

Now apparently you're saying that because no one has tried TP one Sauron that he must be immune to it?

"poor"

Apparently you lack the Logic Department.

You just said the mind gem would work on Sauron when you have Zero Proof.

Where did I say he could take something away from the Hulk?

Another straw man argument.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Got a few Pm's from people that Newjack is a huge Thor Fan boy so its no wonder its going this way.. And someone that makes me wrong

Originally posted by Newjak
It means that if someone is going to try and rip something out of his hand or hold him down on the ground then they are going to need enough TK strength to do these things.

You need to show Sauron has that level of TK strength. So far you have not.

Lol people stole cap's shield and knocked it out his hand a few times, now you think TK can't do it cause what Loki beat Cap?

Originally posted by Newjak
And someone that makes me wrong

Actually when you apply no limits fallacies over and over it does.

You said Loki could mind rape Sauron,

Prove it.