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Battle 1 takes place on neutral ground

Battle 2: Dooku has his Vjun amp

*False Emperor Darth Malgus

Does Malgus also get an amp in round 2?

FE Version in both rounds, so YES

Up

Honestly, I'm going with team 2.

Me too. Together they overwhelm Yoda.

Yoda

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Honestly, I'm going with team 2. Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Me too. Together they overwhelm Yoda.

Yoda takes round 1, team round 2.

Yoda was already having trouble finding an angle to kill Dooku in AOTC. Sure he would have killed Dooku eventually, but with Malgus breathing down his neck as well?

Yoda gets stomped.

I'm rolling with the team.

Team in spite.

Yoda has this.

Yoda.

Yoda has to fight like he fought Sidious. If not, he dies.

Yoda doesn't stands a chance.

Originally posted by Hero of Python
Yoda was already having trouble finding an angle to kill Dooku in AOTC. Sure he would have killed Dooku eventually, but with Malgus breathing down his neck as well?

Yoda gets stomped.


He never once attacked Dooku with TK though. Given Sidious is able to choke Dooku from another system, and how Yoda with casual ease completely freezes the likes of Ventress, you can imagine what would happen if Yoda let loose with the Force.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He never once attacked Dooku with TK though. Given Sidious is able to choke Dooku from another system, and how Yoda with casual ease completely freezes the likes of Ventress, you can imagine what would happen if Yoda let loose with the Force.
Distance doesn't mean anything apparently. And Dooku wasn't trying to defend Sidious' choke nor was ready. I don't think Yoda will be able to do anything to Dooku with TK in the midst of combat, Dooku has better TK feats than Yoda.

Originally posted by Arhael
Distance doesn't mean anything apparently. And Dooku wasn't trying to defend Sidious' choke nor was ready. I don't think Yoda will be able to do anything to Dooku with TK in the midst of combat, Dooku has better TK feats than Yoda.


Well it can be used mid combat as Sidious displayed against Maul and Savage. I doubt Dooku's force powers are > Maul and Savage's combined. Yoda also displayed great power over Ventress who was in combat range.

I agree distance doesn't seem to mean much, which is actually pretty cool in terms of Canon force abilities.

Originally posted by Arhael
Dooku has better TK feats than Yoda.

What?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well it can be used mid combat as Sidious displayed against Maul and Savage. I doubt Dooku's force powers are > Maul and Savage's combined. Yoda also displayed great power over Ventress who was in combat range.

I agree distance doesn't seem to mean much, which is actually pretty cool in terms of Canon force abilities.
Yoda has never demonstrated TK use mid combat like Sidious, both Sidious and Dooku are plain more skillful in offensive use of TK and have feats to back it up unlike Yoda. Dooku doesn't need to have better TK than Maul and Opress combined, Sidious used TK on them in such a way that they failed to block it, it was about skill, not power.

Bottom line Yoda had two fights against Dooku and didn't even attempt to try TK despite the fact that it would be easiest solution to take down Dooku, there is absolutely no reason to assume Yoda would be able to handle Dooku with TK even in 1 on 1 fight.

Team likely wins round 2, given Yoda's mind set and him more than likely not wanting to kill Dooku which can cause problems with Malgus to back the Count up.
But Yoda can take round 1.

Well, these fights are usually sabers/force/all out, right?

Yoda's fights against Dooku were generally sabers...and then some force where Yoda doesn't even bother attacking. Yoda never makes an offensive TK move on Genosis. He just absorbs the lightning and pushes Dooku's attacks away. Almost...like he was holding back, compared to the Sidious battle in the Senate room.

Originally posted by Arhael
Distance doesn't mean anything apparently. And Dooku wasn't trying to defend Sidious' choke nor was ready. I don't think Yoda will be able to do anything to Dooku with TK in the midst of combat, Dooku has better TK feats than Yoda.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
What?

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Well, these fights are usually sabers/force/all out, right?

Yoda's fights against Dooku were generally sabers...and then some force where Yoda doesn't even bother attacking. Yoda never makes an offensive TK move on Genosis. He just absorbs the lightning and pushes Dooku's attacks away. Almost...like he was holding back, compared to the Sidious battle in the Senate room.
By that logic Windu was holding back against Sidious too as he did not try to attack with Force and fought defensively most of the fight.
Jedi are not trained to use Force offensively like Sith, it makes sense that Jedi are just plainly not as skilled in offensive Force technique.
Argument that Yoda held back is stupid, lightsaber is far more lethal than TK on any day and Yoda went full whirlwind on Dooku with lightsaber.

Originally posted by Arhael
Yoda has never demonstrated TK use mid combat like Sidious, both Sidious and Dooku are plain more skillful in offensive use of TK and have feats to back it up unlike Yoda.



I doubt that given how Yoda dealt with Ventress. He caught her off guard the first time, but he then let her go, and then she tried attacking him with her Sabers, but he simply pulled them away from her and into his own hands. He did all this really casually as well. So casually in fact that he felt no threat at all in giving her lightsabers back.

Compare that to Dooku vs Ventress.

So I'd say Yoda is most definitely more skilled and powerful than Dooku in the force. And given his pretty much stalemate against Sidious in their Force contest, and neither gaining a decisive advantage (until Yoda fell off the senate pod), I'd say Yoda must at least be close to Sidious in that department as well.


Originally posted by Arhael

Argument that Yoda held back is stupid, lightsaber is far more lethal than TK on any day and Yoda went full whirlwind on Dooku with lightsaber.


Of course his tactics could completely change when fighting 2 Lethal opponents like this.

Jedi Philosophy compels Yoda to use minimum force necessary. But yeah...against two lethal opponents, he'll go all out, as if fighting Sidious. Yoda is about on par with ROTS Sidious, as demonstrated by...what I'd call a draw in the Senate chamber, mostly.

So...as a side point, could ROTS Sidious take both of these guys? Can Caedus? If Yes, then Yoda probably can too, by virtue of power scaling.

He sent Sidious flying and returned senate pods to Sidious mid combat

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I doubt that given how Yoda dealt with Ventress. He caught her off guard the first time, but he then let her go, and then she tried attacking him with her Sabers, but he simply pulled them away from her and into his own hands. He did all this really casually as well. So casually in fact that he felt no threat at all in giving her lightsabers back.

Compare that to Dooku vs Ventress.

So I'd say Yoda is most definitely more skilled and powerful than Dooku in the force. And given his pretty much stalemate against Sidious in their Force contest, and neither gaining a decisive advantage (until Yoda fell off the senate pod), I'd say Yoda must at least be close to Sidious in that department as well.


Originally posted by Angelalex242
Jedi Philosophy compels Yoda to use minimum force necessary. But yeah...against two lethal opponents, he'll go all out, as if fighting Sidious. Yoda is about on par with ROTS Sidious, as demonstrated by...what I'd call a draw in the Senate chamber, mostly.

So...as a side point, could ROTS Sidious take both of these guys? Can Caedus? If Yes, then Yoda probably can too, by virtue of power scaling.


Originally posted by carthage
He sent Sidious flying and returned senate pods to Sidious mid combat



Yoda is hinted to be a superior saber master to RotS Sidious (junior novelization and RotS script have him disarming Sidious). I believe it is by a slim margin, but still speaks volumes about Yoda's saber prowess and potenially places him as one of the top 3 saber masters in the whole mythos.

Yoda is also a comparable force-user. He can trade blows with Sidious and match his FL barehanded. TBH neither Malgus nor Dooku can dish out more damage than Yoda can take.

Yoda takes this.

Originally posted by Arhael
Yoda has never demonstrated TK use mid combat like Sidious, both Sidious and Dooku are plain more skillful in offensive use of TK and have feats to back it up unlike Yoda. Dooku doesn't need to have better TK than Maul and Opress combined, Sidious used TK on them in such a way that they failed to block it, it was about skill, not power.

Bottom line Yoda had two fights against Dooku and didn't even attempt to try TK despite the fact that it would be easiest solution to take down Dooku, there is absolutely no reason to assume Yoda would be able to handle Dooku with TK even in 1 on 1 fight.


This may about be the dumbest post I've read on these boards in a while.

You DID NOT just say that Dooku has better TK than Yoda. Bro Yoda's entire philosophy is not using the force for attack. He only does so in extreme measures i.e. fighting the most powerful dark lord of all times. Also lol, Yoda had no interest in killing Dooku.

Not to mention Yoda TK'ing Sidious, senate pods, landing crafts and small armies. Even in the movie canon Yoda has the best TK feat--lifting the X-wing

Yoda is a TK beast TBH.

Originally posted by Stigma
Not to mention Yoda TK'ing Sidious, senate pods, landing crafts and small armies. Even in the movie canon Yoda has the best TK feat--lifting the X-wing

Yoda is a TK beast TBH.

This.

IDK Dooku did reasonably well against Yoda in AOTC, and unless Yoda held back in the novelization of the film I see no reason Dooku couldn't match his success.

I actually believe the team would take this fight, but I completely agree Yoda has better TK than Dooku.

Originally posted by carthage
IDK Dooku did reasonably well against Yoda in AOTC, and unless Yoda held back in the novelization of the film I see no reason Dooku couldn't match his success.

Oh Dooku put up a decent Saber fight no doubt. I just think if Yoda went all out with the Force from the get go then the fight would be a lot more one sided, and a lot shorter. But then again the same could be said about Sidious vs Windu.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Oh Dooku put up a decent Saber fight no doubt. I just think if Yoda went all out with the Force from the get go then the fight would be a lot more one sided, and a lot shorter. But then again the same could be said about Sidious vs Windu.

Hard to say if he would or not given Jedi morals. Obviously he's more than capable of dominating either with telekinesis. But he didn't do so in AOTC so I doubt he would opt for that in an initial engagement with Dooku, while Malgus acts as interference with TK or lightning

The only chance the team has is if Yoda doesn't go all out on them right away and give Malgus a chance to charge up a maelstrom from behind while he duels Dooku.

Yoda cannot possibly win 2. The only way he wins 1 is if it is an area he can capitalize on his powerful force advantage. Count and Malgus win more than not, but that's not to say Yoda doesn't take a good number of fights.

Round 1: Yoda can take this just fine. He has to go for the win and not screw around though.

Round 2: A bit closer, and I'd lean towards the team, but Yoda can still win.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I doubt that given how Yoda dealt with Ventress. He caught her off guard the first time, but he then let her go, and then she tried attacking him with her Sabers, but he simply pulled them away from her and into his own hands. He did all this really casually as well. So casually in fact that he felt no threat at all in giving her lightsabers back.

It makes all the more reason that Yoda would do the same to Dooku, if he could. The only explanation he didn't is because he couldn't.

Also, Yoda faced earlier version of Ventress. Dooku fought Ventress later on in the series after Sidious noted that Ventress grew in power by that point, she was so good that she even managed to choke both Anakin and Kenobi simultaneously. And still after short saber fight with her Dooku pulled her lightsabers out of her hands with TK and then started Force chocking her and blasting with lightning.


1. It was not mid combat. Sidious wasn't fighting Yoda at that point and didn't even expect it from Yoda.

2. It does not prove anything. With same success I can give example of how Ahsoka TKed Ventress across a room.

Originally posted by Arhael
It makes all the more reason that Yoda would do the same to Dooku, if he could. The only explanation he didn't is because he couldn't.

Also, Yoda faced earlier version of Ventress. Dooku fought Ventress later on in the series after Sidious noted that Ventress grew in power by that point, she was so good that she even managed to choke both Anakin and Kenobi simultaneously. And still after short saber fight with her Dooku pulled her lightsabers out of her hands with TK and then started Force chocking her and blasting with lightning.



Surely Yoda can Force Push Dooku though. Yoda force pushed Sidious, after which Sidious tried to run away. So I'm betting Yoda's force push is a lot harder than Dooku's force push. So that factors into an All-Out fight.

It already takes everything Dooku has just to defend against Yoda's Saber onslaught. Start adding in Tk attacks and Yoda should win comfortably Imo.

Same goes for Sidious vs Mace Imho.

The Ventress which Yoda Force Owned was no joke. She was still capable of fighting off Anakin and Obi-Wan. And it's not like Dooku could just freeze either of those 2 in AOTC.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Surely Yoda can Force Push Dooku though. Yoda force pushed Sidious, after which Sidious tried to run away. So I'm betting Yoda's force push is a lot harder than Dooku's force push. So that factors into an All-Out fight.

It already takes everything Dooku has just to defend against Yoda's Saber onslaught. Start adding in Tk attacks and Yoda should win comfortably Imo.

Same goes for Sidious vs Mace Imho.

The Ventress which Yoda Force Owned was no joke. She was still capable of fighting off Anakin and Obi-Wan. And it's not like Dooku could just freeze either of those 2 in AOTC.
Yes, it is possible for Yoda to Force push Dooku, if he is not ready. Same goes for any characters. Sidious got Force pushed only ones before duel started, I don't think Yoda would be able to do that again, when Sidious was ready to defend.
Yoda does not have a luxury of throwing Force pushes during mid combat. He already needs to focus his power to enhance his body. I am pretty sure Dooku is competent enough to anticipate and block Yoda's Force attacks. Regardless, assumption that Yoda might start adding Force pushes mid combat requires some evidence and there is none. Yoda pushing Sidious before duel started is not a proof, when we have examples like Ahsoka pushing Ventress.

Anyway. My opinion is that a character prefers certain combat tactics because they are most effective. Yoda preferred saber against Dooku because it is the most effective way to take him down. I don't accept implication that Yoda is stupid to choose not try to Force handle Dooku, when the whole war outcome is at stakes, unless he simply can't.

Originally posted by Arhael


Anyway. My opinion is that a character prefers certain combat tactics because they are most effective. Yoda preferred saber against Dooku because it is the most effective way to take him down. I don't accept implication that Yoda is stupid to choose not try to Force handle Dooku, when the whole war outcome is at stakes, unless he simply can't.


True, it would be retarded to let Dooku escape, and also true that Dooku is a Force beast.

But problem is when Yoda didn't even attempt to Tk Dooku in the Force fight then it's hard to just make assumptions from that. Dooku was relentlessly attacking Yoda with the Force, and all Yoda did was defend himself that whole time. Perhaps Yoda just thought he'll attack Dooku if he tries to escape. Or perhaps Yoda was just assessing how Powerful Dooku is now- "Powerful you have become Dooku... The Dark Side I sense in you."

So there's more than one possible explanation. And it's not necessarily a case of "he didn't because he couldn't."


As for Force pushes during a Saber fight, it happens a lot. Maul force pushed Kenobi in their final Saber fight in TPM. Dooku force pushed Kenobi in ROTS Mid-Saber fight. The Inquisitor has force pushed Kanan more than once. Sidious force pushed Maul mid-Saber fight.

So it's a common thing for Force pushes to happen mid-Saber fight. And given Yoda and Dooku's Saber fight only lasted 30 seconds it's way too speculative to say there's no way Yoda could land a few Force pushes had the fight carried on. Of course Dooku could land a Force push as well but Yoda's will be more powerful.

Several sources claim Yoda is a match for Palpatine in power, but this is one of the more controversial areas because different sources disagree on the matter.

The AotC fight is also disagreed upon by sources. Some of them depict Yoda battering away at Tyranus's defenses, but the Count still manages to hold his own. In others, Yoda holds back, merely defending himself, yet for all his efforts Dooku can't bypass Yoda's defenses and get to his ship. In the comic, Dooku attacks with everything he has, but he merely tires himself in that failed assault. Then again, the comic did portray things a little more differently and according to the original script (ie. Dooku dual-wielding briefly).

Yoda's pretty clearly well above Dooku in Force power, though two sources claim that Yoda couldn't defeat Dooku in the Force, lol. That being said, just as many sources put Yoda on par with Palpatine, who would annihilate Dooku with the Force.

Yoda might not even want to kill or seriously harm Dooku. He approaches the whole thing rather like a kindly parent with an erring child. He lets the child rant and rave and throw things, calmly deflects it all, and waits for them to come home.

Sadly, Dooku didn't come home.

Team in round 2. Not sure about 1.

Yoda very solidly and for very, very obvious reasons.

I guess it would be a waste of time to go over the fallacies and line of logic that's always used in Yoda threads. They'd only get repeated again in his next thread. However, if we are going to use such logic with Yoda then it applies to all jedi, therefore we shouldn't have jedi vs jedi threads anymore. Obviously a jedi isn't going to hurt or kill one of their members. Yep, that's it, some jedi have even shown to hold back against their members in order to allow the member to keep pace, so basically jedi vs jedi threads should be a discussion on how their sparring matches may turn out.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Several sources claim Yoda is a match for Palpatine in power, but this is one of the more controversial areas because different sources disagree on the matter.

The AotC fight is also disagreed upon by sources. Some of them depict Yoda battering away at Tyranus's defenses, but the Count still manages to hold his own. In others, Yoda holds back, merely defending himself, yet for all his efforts Dooku can't bypass Yoda's defenses and get to his ship. In the comic, Dooku attacks with everything he has, but he merely tires himself in that failed assault. Then again, the comic did portray things a little more differently and according to the original script (ie. Dooku dual-wielding briefly).

Yoda's pretty clearly well above Dooku in Force power, though two sources claim that Yoda couldn't defeat Dooku in the Force, lol. That being said, just as many sources put Yoda on par with Palpatine, who would annihilate Dooku with the Force.

Retconned imo. The AOTCs novel states that Dooku's lightning was absorbed 'far from easily' by Yoda but in the new databank it states Yoda "easily absorbed his Force lightning attack".

I was actually referring to the junior novel, but yeah.