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Who takes this?

Gogeta

Gogeta

Given the implications in the manga and the gap in the Boo saga between the adults and the kids, Vegetto wins here, and very easily I should add.

Anyway, knowing AT and his laughable consistency with his own work, it is probable that Gogeta, if he were ever to appear, would be really no different in power than Vegetto and thus he would win this.

If we're going by Toei's original anime continuity, I'm of the opinion that there's not that much of a difference in power between the Dance and Potara fusions

SSJ Gogeta would curbstomp Vegeto here

Yeah, everyone here's got pretty much the right idea.

Going by the manga, Vegetto still pulls a win, pretty handily.

Going by the anime/movie's, Gogeta shit-stomps here.

But if AT ever really made this, they'd probably be equal, meaning SSJ Gogeta would stomp on Base Vegetto, but be stalemated by SSJ Vegetto.

Gogeta from DBZ wins

Gogeta from the forum loses badly.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Gogeta from DBZ wins

Gogeta from the forum loses badly.

Not as badly as the guy claiming that bleeding doesn't mean you're damaged.

You're the joke of this entire forum, bro.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Not as badly as the guy claiming that bleeding doesn't mean you're damaged.

You're the joke of this entire forum, bro.

If I am the joke, what does that make you cause everyone is always cracking jokes on you, daily..

Do you need references?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
If I am the joke, what does that make you cause everyone is always cracking jokes on you, daily..

Do you need references?

Um...

That's like when the baseball team makes fun of the smart kids.

You, Yungz, Brem, and sometimes Chasedown, are not even close to the baseball team. You're the special needs class, given that you ALL seem to think that Vegeta did ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE, WHATSOEVER to someone he bloodied in a fight.

Actual, serious posters take my side on this.

Do you need references?

You were born in 95 and you calling me kid? Lol...

Keep dreaming.

Btw my ear was bleeding a bit today but it didn't hurt.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You were born in 95 and you calling me kid? Lol...

Keep dreaming.

Btw my ear was bleeding a bit today but it didn't hurt.

Not my fault you have the mentality of someone born yesterday.

And btw, that may be true, but you can also have brain cancer, even if it "doesn't hurt". If you think something that is making you bleed isn't hurting you, just because you don't feel that bad, then you should just leave this thread, because you're clearly retarded.

Not to mention, that if someone had hit you, caused your ear to bleed, but you still beat them, that would still mean that they could hurt you worse, if given a chance. You're clearly not understanding here that blood doesn't just come out of a healthy person for no reason.

The form matters more than the type of the fusion. Gogeta should win quite solidly.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Given the implications in the manga and the gap in the Boo saga between the adults and the kids, Vegetto wins here, and very easily I should add.



That gap can be chalked up to the adults being sooo much stronger than the kids. The gap between Gotenks and Vegetto isn't much different than I'd think the gap between Goten/Trunks and Goku/Vegeta would be, i.e. totally overwhelming, so I don't chalk that yp to be a difference in fusion type.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Not my fault you have the mentality of someone born yesterday.

And btw, that may be true, but you can also have brain cancer, even if it "doesn't hurt". If you think something that is making you bleed isn't hurting you, just because you don't feel that bad, then you should just leave this thread, because you're clearly retarded.

Not to mention, that if someone had hit you, caused your ear to bleed, but you still beat them, that would still mean that they could hurt you worse, if given a chance. You're clearly not understanding here that blood doesn't just come out of a healthy person for no reason.

Not really, I just because I don't vomit from the mouth about multipliers and treat a little blood like you treated your first period, does not mean I lack a mature mentality.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Not really, I just because I don't vomit from the mouth about multipliers and treat a little blood like you treated your first period, does not mean I lack a mature mentality.

"Not my fault you have the mentality of someone born yesterday.

And btw, that may be true, but you can also have brain cancer, even if it "doesn't hurt". If you think something that is making you bleed isn't hurting you, just because you don't feel that bad, then you should just leave this thread, because you're clearly retarded.

Not to mention, that if someone had hit you, caused your ear to bleed, but you still beat them, that would still mean that they could hurt you worse, if given a chance. You're clearly not understanding here that blood doesn't just come out of a healthy person for no reason."

Basically needed to repost, since you didn't address anything, because you have no argument here.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
"Not my fault you have the mentality of someone born yesterday.

And btw, that may be true, but you can also have brain cancer, even if it "doesn't hurt". If you think something that is making you bleed isn't hurting you, just because you don't feel that bad, then you should just leave this thread, because you're clearly retarded.

Not to mention, that if someone had hit you, caused your ear to bleed, but you still beat them, that would still mean that they could hurt you worse, if given a chance. You're clearly not understanding here that blood doesn't just come out of a healthy person for no reason."

Basically needed to repost, since you didn't address anything, because you have no argument here.

I already agreed with you that Gogeta would win, I Just said that the forum Gogeta loses.

Anyways, good laughs for tonight, see ya tommorrow.

SSJGGogeta still has a stick up his as*?

Poor guy

Originally posted by Q99
The form matters more than the type of the fusion. Gogeta should win quite solidly.

That gap can be chalked up to the adults being sooo much stronger than the kids. The gap between Gotenks and Vegetto isn't much different than I'd think the gap between Goten/Trunks and Goku/Vegeta would be, i.e. totally overwhelming, so I don't chalk that yp to be a difference in fusion type.

The adults are obviously stronger than the kids, true, but both Ssj Vegeta and Ssj Gohan (albeit if a little bit rusty and weaker than Goku and Vegeta) had to put up quite a high effort against Ssj Trunks and Ssj Goten respectively, and that was even before that the kids entered the ROSAT to train in order to face Super Boo as Gotenks.
It's evident that a hypothetical Ssj3 Trunks or Ssj3 Goten would finger-flick to death Ssj Goku or Ssj Vegeta: it would be a massacre, a stomp power-wise, yet Ssj Vegetto would kill Ssj3 Gotenks effortlessly.
Do you see the difference here?
Also we have direct statements from Goku and Boohan regarding Gogeta not being enough against Boohan himself; that's why, going by what the manga tells us, base Vegetto would probably take this.

Originally posted by bbrem123
SSJGGogeta still has a stick up his as*?

Poor guy

lmaoooooooo

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Um...

That's like when the baseball team makes fun of the smart kids.

You, Yungz, Brem, and sometimes Chasedown, are not even close to the baseball team. You're the special needs class, given that you ALL seem to think that Vegeta did ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE, WHATSOEVER to someone he bloodied in a fight.

Actual, serious posters take my side on this.

Do you need references?





why is my name being brought up into this



gogeta its ok to be wrong every once in a while calling ppl stupid or idiots just because they dont agree with you only belittles your own intelligence.


you have to base your arguments on facts not spec orthings that you make up. thats why ppl always end up disagreeing with you because you pull things out of your ass which are baseless and often make zero sense what so ever.


btw vegeta did as much damage to bills as a small rock would against pure steel. it was hardly anything and bills was not hurt at all

Very good assessment.

Originally posted by chasedown
why is my name being brought up into this



gogeta its ok to be wrong every once in a while calling ppl stupid or idiots just because they dont agree with you only belittles your own intelligence.


you have to base your arguments on facts not spec orthings that you make up. thats why ppl always end up disagreeing with you because you pull things out of your ass which are baseless and often make zero sense what so ever.


btw vegeta did as much damage to bills as a small rock would against pure steel. it was hardly anything and bills was not hurt at all

If a rock puts a dent in steel, then it's obvious that it could go through the steel, if under the right conditions.

Either way, if I was in a fight, got hit so hard that I got a nose-bleed, but still won the fight, then I wouldn't go around saying that I didn't get hurt, or that the other person did nothing to me. And neither would anyone else on this planet, with a brain. Which clearly you are lacking, when you're around the idiots that this entire forum realizes as trolls, like Yungz, Brem, and TI.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
If a rock puts a dent in steel, then it's obvious that it could go through the steel, if under the right conditions.

Either way, if I was in a fight, got hit so hard that I got a nose-bleed, but still won the fight, then I wouldn't go around saying that I didn't get hurt, or that the other person did nothing to me. And neither would anyone else on this planet, with a brain. Which clearly you are lacking, when you're around the idiots that this entire forum realizes as trolls, like Yungz, Brem, and TI.


the damage was insignificant bills was perfectly fine after vegetas assualt he wasnt bleeding and had zero scratches on him...... plus he proceeded to whoop vegetas ass like he stole something so idk why your even mentioning that scene like it made a difference bills still stomped him bad



also your the only calling us trolls because you cant accept being wrong like a little child

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
If a rock puts a dent in steel, then it's obvious that it could go through the steel, if under the right conditions.

Either way, if I was in a fight, got hit so hard that I got a nose-bleed, but still won the fight, then I wouldn't go around saying that I didn't get hurt, or that the other person did nothing to me. And neither would anyone else on this planet, with a brain. Which clearly you are lacking, when you're around the idiots that this entire forum realizes as trolls, like Yungz, Brem, and TI.



Im confused no one but you has called us trolls, but everyone has called you a troll.

Are you delusional?

You guys are clearly retarded.

Since you think that people just bleed for no reason, it's clear that I have won this little shit-fest against you idiotic trolls.

And TI, stop acting like I'M delusional, when the only people on your side are riding the short bus with you.



But yeah, I've clearly made my point, and you guys have been too stupid to post anything against it for MONTHS, so I hereby take my title, and leave.

taking damage and being hurt are two different things

Originally posted by yungz22
taking damage and being hurt are two different things

clapping

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
clapping


bills was not hurt by vegeta

Originally posted by yungz22
bills was not hurt by vegeta

pile

bills was perfectly fine which is why he whooped vegetas ass after that

He did bleed and grunt in pain, so he got hurt. There's no denying that.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He did bleed and grunt in pain, so he got hurt. There's no denying that.


he literally had zero scratches and tanked the assault it was so insignificant its not even worth mentioning thats my point.


it like continuously talking about a punch boxer lands on an opponent but he still ends up getting his ass whooped and knocked out that same round.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You guys are clearly retarded.

Since you think that people just bleed for no reason, it's clear that I have won this little shit-fest against you idiotic trolls.

And TI, stop acting like I'M delusional, when the only people on your side are riding the short bus with you.



But yeah, I've clearly made my point, and you guys have been too stupid to post anything against it for MONTHS, so I hereby take my title, and leave.

You didn't prove anything and not one person here agreed with you.

Originally posted by yungz22
he literally had zero scratches and tanked the assault it was so insignificant its not even worth mentioning thats my point.


it like continuously talking about a punch boxer lands on an opponent but he still ends up getting his ass whooped and knocked out that same round.

He literally did bleed tho so he clearly was damaged. Just because it wasn't "lasting" or "substantial" doesn't mean he wasn't damaged.

But that's all besides the point. Why are you guys talking about another fight here when there is a thread for it?

ops edit

Originally posted by juggerman
He literally did bleed tho so he clearly was damaged. Just because it wasn't "lasting" or "substantial" doesn't mean he wasn't damaged.

But that's all besides the point. Why are you guys talking about another fight here when there is a thread for it?

i already admitted he took damage however insignificant it is.

bills lost.0005% percent of his health big whoop

Originally posted by yungz22
i already admitted he took damage however insignificant it is.

bills lost.0005% percent of his health big whoop

Good glad we're making progress. Now if he took any damage at all, then a person many times more powerful could cause him many times more damage.

Gogeta felt that he needed SSJ to beat Janeba. Vegito's anime base still wrecked the shit out of Gohan Boo.

Originally posted by juggerman
Good glad we're making progress. Now if he took any damage at all, then a person many times more powerful could cause him many times more damage.

hed have to be 1000 times stronger just to do 5% damage lol but ok

Lol...you do have two accts. Why though?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You guys are clearly retarded.

Since you think that people just bleed for no reason, it's clear that I have won this little shit-fest against you idiotic trolls.

And TI, stop acting like I'M delusional, when the only people on your side are riding the short bus with you.



But yeah, I've clearly made my point, and you guys have been too stupid to post anything against it for MONTHS, so I hereby take my title, and leave.

IOW: "No one agree's with you" however "you are right"

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...you do have two accts. Why though?
m
what are talking you about just because i can read posts and respond accordingly if i agree with him.:...: im not even on here that much im in college.


The whole point that is being made from what i read is the amount of damage vegeta did to bills is so insignificant. that it doesnt prove that vegeto would win

especially if goku himself says fusion wouldnt work and goku has never been wrong about the outcome of a fight

Lol...come on. It's obvious you two are one of the same. No denying this.

Originally posted by chasedown
hed have to be 1000 times stronger just to do 5% damage lol but ok

That's your baseless speculation on the percent Vegeta did. Your stance is bad and you should feel bad

Originally posted by Based
Gogeta felt that he needed SSJ to beat Janeba. Vegito's anime base still wrecked the shit out of Gohan Boo.

He was automatically SSJ1 when he turned. Nothing shows he "felt he needed it" as much as it's just what happened.

Originally posted by juggerman
He was automatically SSJ1 when he turned. Nothing shows he "felt he needed it" as much as it's just what happened.

Precisely.

Super Janemba got stomped so quickly... it's not inconceivable that Base Gogeta could've beat him.

Gogeta wins here without any trouble.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Gogeta wins here without any trouble.

You have to prove it though.
The only way you can say this is by speculating about how forgetful about his own work AT is, or by taking into account Movie Gogeta, when movies are completely different timelines compared to the manga continuity.
Otherwise, going by the manga, Vegetto stomps, proofs are plenty.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
You have to prove it though.
The only way you can say this is by speculating about how forgetful about his own work AT is, or by taking into account Movie Gogeta, when movies are completely different timelines compared to the manga continuity.
Otherwise, going by the manga, Vegetto stomps, proofs are plenty.

His one attack would be enough to roflstomp Vegetate. He was clearly on another level.

What took you guys so long?

Anyway, as I've proven time and time again, TI, you are simply incorrect. And everyone agree's with me, except you and your group of bridge-trolls.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yeah, everyone here's got pretty much the right idea.

Going by the manga, Vegetto still pulls a win, pretty handily.

Going by the anime/movie's, Gogeta shit-stomps here.

But if AT ever really made this, they'd probably be equal, meaning SSJ Gogeta would stomp on Base Vegetto, but be stalemated by SSJ Vegetto.

You said here he wins.

Flip flop

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You said here he wins.

Flip flop

Yes. I SAID VEGETTO WINS. Because he would, in cannon. In the anime, the only reason Gogeta would win is because of dubbing errors.

Vegetto wins SOLIDLY in base, because not ONLY were the potara "vastly superior to that silly dance", as per ELDER KAI'S OWN WORDS, but Vegetto ALSO got ANOTHER boost, from Goku and Vegeta being rivals. To the point where SSJ1 Vegetto COULD HAVE KILLED BUUHAN WITH A KIAI. Which is JUST A WAVE. Literally.

SSJ3 Goku TEAMED UP with SSJ2 Gohan, WOULD HAVE HAD NO CHANCE AGAINST REGULAR SUPER BUU. This was stated BY GOKU HIMSELF. SSJ3 Goku fought on par with Super Janemba. Super Gogeta beat Super Janemba pretty handily, but didn't take him out with ANYTHING LESS than his strongest attack. Meaning that Super Gogeta wasn't MUCH stronger than SSJ3 Goku, even though he definitely was stronger. SSJ1 Vegetto was strong enough to kill an enemy that was FOUR SSJ'S ABOVE someone that SSJ3 Goku AND SSJ2 Vegeta teamed up, would have had no chance against... WITH A WAVE. SSJ1 Vegetto >>>>> Buuhan >>> Buutenks >>> Buucolo >> Super Buu >> SSJ3 Goku/SSJ2 Vegeta teamed up >>> SSJ3 Goku.

Super Janemba > SSJ3 Goku.

Do you not understand this? Vegetto in BASE FORM would have EATEN Super Janemba. Probably as badly as Super Vegetto would have stomped Buuhan. Meaning that BASE Vegetto would have DEFINITELY been able to put Super Gogeta down, especially considering that base Vegetto is permanent, and Super Gogeta stays fused for less than 30 minutes.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Who takes this?
Originally posted by juggerman
Gogeta
Originally posted by bbrem123
Gogeta
Originally posted by Q99
The form matters more than the type of the fusion. Gogeta should win quite solidly.




That gap can be chalked up to the adults being sooo much stronger than the kids. The gap between Gotenks and Vegetto isn't much different than I'd think the gap between Goten/Trunks and Goku/Vegeta would be, i.e. totally overwhelming, so I don't chalk that yp to be a difference in fusion type.


Everyone here said Gogeta win.

Forum Gogeta loses.

Simple as that.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Everyone here said Gogeta win.

Forum Gogeta loses.

Simple as that.

See above.

Janemba rivaled Buu's power.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
His one attack would be enough to roflstomp Vegetate. He was clearly on another level.

This is not a proof, it's just your opinion.
Since Vegetto humiliated Boohan, I could say he would beat to a pulp ssj Gogeta as well, since he "was clearly on another level".
Again, show me how and why manga Gogeta would lay a single hit on Vegetto, I want actual proofs. book
Until then, since the manga speaks clearly on the matter, Vegetto takes this.

Because Janemaba rivaled Buu's power.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yes. I SAID VEGETTO WINS. Because he would, in cannon. In the anime, the only reason Gogeta would win is because of dubbing errors.

Vegetto wins SOLIDLY in base, because not ONLY were the potara "vastly superior to that silly dance", as per ELDER KAI'S OWN WORDS, but Vegetto ALSO got ANOTHER boost, from Goku and Vegeta being rivals. To the point where SSJ1 Vegetto COULD HAVE KILLED BUUHAN WITH A KIAI. Which is JUST A WAVE. Literally.

SSJ3 Goku TEAMED UP with SSJ2 Gohan, WOULD HAVE HAD NO CHANCE AGAINST REGULAR SUPER BUU. This was stated BY GOKU HIMSELF. SSJ3 Goku fought on par with Super Janemba. Super Gogeta beat Super Janemba pretty handily, but didn't take him out with ANYTHING LESS than his strongest attack. Meaning that Super Gogeta wasn't MUCH stronger than SSJ3 Goku, even though he definitely was stronger. SSJ1 Vegetto was strong enough to kill an enemy that was FOUR SSJ'S ABOVE someone that SSJ3 Goku AND SSJ2 Vegeta teamed up, would have had no chance against... WITH A WAVE. SSJ1 Vegetto >>>>> Buuhan >>> Buutenks >>> Buucolo >> Super Buu >> SSJ3 Goku/SSJ2 Vegeta teamed up >>> SSJ3 Goku.

Super Janemba > SSJ3 Goku.

Do you not understand this? Vegetto in BASE FORM would have EATEN Super Janemba. Probably as badly as Super Vegetto would have stomped Buuhan. Meaning that BASE Vegetto would have DEFINITELY been able to put Super Gogeta down, especially considering that base Vegetto is permanent, and Super Gogeta stays fused for less than 30 minutes.

Couple of things here:

1. It was SSJ2 Vegeta not Gohan.

2. SSJ3 Goku was not "on par" with Janemba. Janemba was clearly superior.

3. You have no idea if that was Gogeta's "strongest attck". It was his "ONLY" attack that we saw. Unless you have actual proof it was his strongest attack, that's a baseless claim.

4. There are many reasons the earrings can be considered "vastly superior to that silly dance" without it creating a stronger fighter:
a) The dance is more time consuming
b) The dance can be interrupted much more easily
c) The dance can be performed incorrectly resulting in a poor fighter
d) The users of the earrings don't have to have an even PL
e) The earrings don't have a time limit.

And 5. That "rivialry boost" could occur with the dance as well, but even if not, there is no indication it boosts them over the SSJ multipliers.

Good post Jugs, at least someone here still has enough will power left to reason with Forum Gogeta.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Janemba rivaled Buu's power.

Which Boo are you referring to?
Again, gimme actual proofs.

Originally posted by juggerman
4. There are many reasons the earrings can be considered "vastly superior to that silly dance" without it creating a stronger fighter:
a) The dance is more time consuming
b) The dance can be interrupted much more easily
c) The dance can be performed incorrectly resulting in a poor fighter
d) The users of the earrings don't have to have an even PL
e) The earrings don't have a time limit.

And 5. That "rivialry boost" could occur with the dance as well, but even if not, there is no indication it boosts them over the SSJ multipliers.

- It is explicitly stated in the manga that the Potara have a greater effect than fusion dance and that, furthermore, they don't have a time limit.
Vegetto is stronger than Gogeta, that's a fact, and by how much it is told us by Boohan's and Goku's statements.

- Elder Kai never remotely cared about the inferior fusion dance, every thing he said was about the Potara fusion, included the "rival boost".
To say that it would apply also to regular fusion dance is thus just pure speculation.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
- It is explicitly stated in the manga that the Potara have a greater effect than fusion dance and that, furthermore, they don't have a time limit.
Vegetto is stronger than Gogeta, that's a fact, and by how much it is told us by Boohan and Goku statements.

It never said the earrings created a stronger fighter. The results are greater for the reasons I already mentioned

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
- Elder Kai never remotely cared about the inferior fusion dance, everything he said was about the Potara fusion, included the "rival boost".
To say that it would apply also to regular fusion dance is thus just pure speculation.

I addressed this earlier:

Originally posted by juggerman
5. That "rivialry boost" could occur with the dance as well, but even if not, there is no indication it boosts them over the SSJ multipliers.

Not once in there is it shown or stated the Patara creates a stronger fighter, just the the Potara is a superior method of fusion.

ok ok what is the point your trying to argue if you dont think vegeto can win?.......logic says otherwise so i just don understand your stance. Educate me.

There is nothing that shows Vegetto being more powerful than Gogeta. Even if we assume he gets a boost when Gogeta doesn't, there is nothing showing that boost is greater than the 50x boost Gogeta gets when going SSJ.

Base Vegetto vs Base Gogeta goes to Vegetto. Giving Gogeta SSJ while gimping Vegetto to just base is a sure win for Gogeta

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Which Boo are you referring to?
Again, gimme actual proofs.




I mean look at the transformations,

Base Goku and Vegeta made a fusion dance that put them right into Super Saijen without even trying, then one shotted Janemba.

Vegetto had to power up and make a huge deal about it and couldn't even pull a win.

Gogeta stomps

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I mean look at the transformations,

Base Goku and Vegeta made a fusion dance that put them right into Super Saijen without even trying, then one shotted Janemba.

Vegetto had to power up and make a huge deal about it and couldn't even pull a win.

Gogeta stomps

could be true but at the same time vegeto was toying with buuhan and he didnt want to kill buu because he wanted to save the other z fighters.

he was plenty powerful enough to kill buuhan in an instant if he wanted too tho

Yeah Vegetto was just playing around waiting to be absorbed

Vegetto had to try and power up to SS and it was a pretty big deal, Gogeta started off that way from the start without having to amp and transform. It was totally on another level.

I just meant about the "couldn't even pull a win" part

Yea your right, but I dont see how anyone here is saying Vegetto is stronger..when clearly he wasn't.

I agree. Nothing shows him being stronger than Gogeta except possibly a "rival boost" that was never clarified or given an exact value.

Imho: Potara fusion and fusion dance create the exact same level fighter. The only difference in the result is the timeframe.

i dont think theres a real difference in power.... the difference is more in their personalities one likes to play the other is much more serious.

honestly i think janemba and buuhan were around the same level but thats just me

Nah Buuhan would likely stomp J-Man. He was more of a Super Buu level guy

Originally posted by yungz22
i dont think theres a real difference in power.... the difference is more in their personalities one likes to play the other is much more serious.

honestly i think janemba and buuhan were around the same level but thats just me

The fact he started off in SS makes me think there is a difference, and I agree Janemba and Buu are pretty much equal but I give the edge to Janemba based on his weapon and teleportation.

Originally posted by juggerman
Nah Buuhan would likely stomp J-Man. He was more of a Super Buu level guy

I doubt Buu could hit Janemba with his teleportation and pocket hole ability, and that sword, I mean that thing was way OP. Buu would prolly win due to his regen but over all power and versatility, Janemba had it in spades.

If SSJ3 Goku could hit Janemba, Buu will have no problem

Originally posted by juggerman
Couple of things here:

1. It was SSJ2 Vegeta not Gohan.

2. SSJ3 Goku was not "on par" with Janemba. Janemba was clearly superior.

3. You have no idea if that was Gogeta's "strongest attck". It was his "ONLY" attack that we saw. Unless you have actual proof it was his strongest attack, that's a baseless claim.

4. There are many reasons the earrings can be considered "vastly superior to that silly dance" without it creating a stronger fighter:
a) The dance is more time consuming
b) The dance can be interrupted much more easily
c) The dance can be performed incorrectly resulting in a poor fighter
d) The users of the earrings don't have to have an even PL
e) The earrings don't have a time limit.

And 5. That "rivialry boost" could occur with the dance as well, but even if not, there is no indication it boosts them over the SSJ multipliers.

1. Yeah, that was a typing error, at the beginning. I meant to say SSJ2 Vegeta, not SSJ2 Gohan.

2. Um, yes, but not to the point where SSJ3 Goku had no chance against Janemba. He struggled against Janemba, and even overcame him a FEW times. He was clearly CLOSE to being as strong as Janemba. I mean, do you think that SSJ3 Goku, teamed up with SSJ2 Vegeta could have beaten him? Because it's pretty apparent that they could have, even though they could both sense how strong he was, and were still confident enough to fight him. Not to mention that even Vegeta managed to tag him several times. Goku said that he and Vegeta "together", meaning working in tandem, fighting him 2 V 1, would have had "no chance". This would put Super Buu in BASE VASTLY above the SSJ3 Goku/SSJ2 Vegeta team. To the point where they would have had "no chance" against him, so much that they wouldn't even waste the time trying. They could sense his power, just as they could against Janemba. They were clearly more worried about Super Buu than Janemba.

3. Not his only attack. He also hit Janemba with dozens of punches and kicks, before-hand. However, if he was so much stronger than Janemba, and was content with giving him a 5-second beat-down like he did, then why did he have to use an attack at all? Why not just vaporize him with a kiai, like Super Vegetto could have done to Buuhan? The only excuses Vegetto had were being over-confident in his permanent fusion, and wanting to save his family instead of killing them all, and risking them being a part of Buu forever, like the Kai's. Gogeta came in, took Janemba down, and then was done. But he had to use MUCH more effort against a WEAKER opponent, then Vegetto had to use against A MUCH MUCH MUCH stronger opponent. My point here is that Super Vegetto was more powerful compared to Buuhan, than Gogeta was compared to Janemba. And Buuhan was RIDICULOUSLY more powerful than Janemba.

Hell, if you were to rate them, even Super Buu >= Super Janemba. Meaning that if Super Gogeta were to fight Buuhan, that would mean that he would have to be stronger than Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, AND Mystic Gohan, STACKED ON TOP of Super Buu. Seeing as how he did clearly need to put in effort to beat Janemba, albeit not much, I don't see that being possible at all.

4. Your first two points ARE true(but irrelevant), but your last three are wrong.

The potara can ALSO be done incorrectly, as it almost was by Goku. He was going to have Vegeta put his earring on the wrong ear, until the Elder kai told him the right one. And not to mention, he was going to go SSJ BEFORE fusion, which the old kai implied would mean Vegetto would DIE when he lost the ki to stay SSJ.

This is another irrelevant point. The old Kai wouldn't have called the potara better, because of something that didn't matter in the first place. Goku and Vegeta DO have PL's, so... yeah.

This last point is true, but the Old kai even made a point of it. AFTER he said the potara's were better. He said something like, "They're better than that silly dance. Plus, you'll be able to stay that way.". This would mean that even if they WEREN'T permanent, they'd STILL be better than the fusion dance. And that was before he even mentioned the rival boost.

5. Elder Kai specifically said that the potara's would give a rival boost. Assuming the same would happen for the fusion dance is pure assumption, which is baseless. But you're right, the boost could have been barely anything. But the point is that Vegetto has RIDICULOUSLY better feats than Gogeta EVER did.

So, by logic, Vegetto > Gogeta. And yes, to the point where he should beat him in base, with Gogeta as a SSJ1. But I already admitted that if AT made the fight, it would probably have Vegetto and Gogeta as equals. Anime Vegetto stomps even harder, considering that his BASE form was enough to trounce, and supposedly even KILL, Buuhan.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. Yeah, that was a typing error, at the beginning. I meant to say SSJ2 Vegeta, not SSJ2 Gohan.

2. Um, yes, but not to the point where SSJ3 Goku had no chance against Janemba. He struggled against Janemba, and even overcame him a FEW times. He was clearly CLOSE to being as strong as Janemba. I mean, do you think that SSJ3 Goku, teamed up with SSJ2 Vegeta could have beaten him? Because it's pretty apparent that they could have, even though they could both sense how strong he was, and were still confident enough to fight him. Not to mention that even Vegeta managed to tag him several times. Goku said that he and Vegeta "together", meaning working in tandem, fighting him 2 V 1, would have had "no chance". This would put Super Buu in BASE VASTLY above the SSJ3 Goku/SSJ2 Vegeta team. To the point where they would have had "no chance" against him, so much that they wouldn't even waste the time trying. They could sense his power, just as they could against Janemba. They were clearly more worried about Super Buu than Janemba.

3. Not his only attack. He also hit Janemba with dozens of punches and kicks, before-hand. However, if he was so much stronger than Janemba, and was content with giving him a 5-second beat-down like he did, then why did he have to use an attack at all? Why not just vaporize him with a kiai, like Super Vegetto could have done to Buuhan? The only excuses Vegetto had were being over-confident in his permanent fusion, and wanting to save his family instead of killing them all, and risking them being a part of Buu forever, like the Kai's. Gogeta came in, took Janemba down, and then was done. But he had to use MUCH more effort against a WEAKER opponent, then Vegetto had to use against A MUCH MUCH MUCH stronger opponent. My point here is that Super Vegetto was more powerful compared to Buuhan, than Gogeta was compared to Janemba. And Buuhan was RIDICULOUSLY more powerful than Janemba.

Hell, if you were to rate them, even Super Buu >= Super Janemba. Meaning that if Super Gogeta were to fight Buuhan, that would mean that he would have to be stronger than Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, AND Mystic Gohan, STACKED ON TOP of Super Buu. Seeing as how he did clearly need to put in effort to beat Janemba, albeit not much, I don't see that being possible at all.

4. Your first two points ARE true(but irrelevant), but your last three are wrong.

The potara can ALSO be done incorrectly, as it almost was by Goku. He was going to have Vegeta put his earring on the wrong ear, until the Elder kai told him the right one. And not to mention, he was going to go SSJ BEFORE fusion, which the old kai implied would mean Vegetto would DIE when he lost the ki to stay SSJ.

This is another irrelevant point. The old Kai wouldn't have called the potara better, because of something that didn't matter in the first place. Goku and Vegeta DO have PL's, so... yeah.

This last point is true, but the Old kai even made a point of it. AFTER he said the potara's were better. He said something like, "They're better than that silly dance. Plus, you'll be able to stay that way.". This would mean that even if they WEREN'T permanent, they'd STILL be better than the fusion dance. And that was before he even mentioned the rival boost.

5. Elder Kai specifically said that the potara's would give a rival boost. Assuming the same would happen for the fusion dance is pure assumption, which is baseless. But you're right, the boost could have been barely anything. But the point is that Vegetto has RIDICULOUSLY better feats than Gogeta EVER did.

So, by logic, Vegetto > Gogeta. And yes, to the point where he should beat him in base, with Gogeta as a SSJ1. But I already admitted that if AT made the fight, it would probably have Vegetto and Gogeta as equals. Anime Vegetto stomps even harder, considering that his BASE form was enough to trounce, and supposedly even KILL, Buuhan.

1. I figured as much. No biggie

2. I never said Goku was completely dwarfed, but Janemba was his superior.

3. I'm sorry, his only ki based attack. You're correct in that Gogeta had nothing holding him back like Vegetto and that Super Buu>Janemba. That's not the point I made. My point was that you claimed he used his "strongest" attack when there is no evidence that it was.

4. All my point are revelant. For all those reasons the Potara could be considered superior while not actually producing a superior warrior. It's quicker, less likely to mess up, and without a limit.

Also I never said Goku and Vegeta didn't have PL's. I said the users don't have to have EVEN PL's. Meaning one can fuse with someone much stronger/weaker unlike the dance.

5. No he said the fusion got a rival boost, not that they got a boost due to the manner of fusion.

Check out the dialog:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3154-9/dragon-ball/chapter-505.html

He said they're powerful cuz they're fused not cuz of how it happened.

So the reasons Vegetto is so powerful are clearly stated for us to see

Reason 1: Because it is fusion
Reason 2: Because this is a fusion of such powerful guys
Reason 3: Because they happen to be rivals

Not once is it mentioned that the method of the fusion is a reason for it being so powerful or a reason they got a boost

Originally posted by juggerman
Check out the dialog:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3154-9/dragon-ball/chapter-505.html

He said they're powerful cuz they're fused not cuz of how it happened. Amazing how different that particular scanlation's line is from the VIZ quote:
http://i.imgur.com/Wec2Wh0.png
(Remember, it reads right to left.)

Originally posted by juggerman
1. I figured as much. No biggie

2. I never said Goku was completely dwarfed, but Janemba was his superior.

3. I'm sorry, his only ki based attack. You're correct in that Gogeta had nothing holding him back like Vegetto and that Super Buu>Janemba. That's not the point I made. My point was that you claimed he used his "strongest" attack when there is no evidence that it was.

4. All my point are revelant. For all those reasons the Potara could be considered superior while not actually producing a superior warrior. It's quicker, less likely to mess up, and without a limit.

Also I never said Goku and Vegeta didn't have PL's. I said the users don't have to have EVEN PL's. Meaning one can fuse with someone much stronger/weaker unlike the dance.

5. No he said the fusion got a rival boost, not that they got a boost due to the manner of fusion.

Check out the dialog:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3154-9/dragon-ball/chapter-505.html

He said they're powerful cuz they're fused not cuz of how it happened.

So the reasons Vegetto is so powerful are clearly stated for us to see

Reason 1: Because it is fusion
Reason 2: Because this is a fusion of such powerful guys
Reason 3: Because they happen to be rivals

Not once is it mentioned that the method of the fusion is a reason for it being so powerful or a reason they got a boost

1. Yeah, lol. My bad.

2. Alright, but I also never said that Janemba was weaker than SSJ3 Goku. I'm saying that Super Buu is MORE superior to SSJ3 Goku than Super Janemba was, meaning that Super Buu >= Super Janemba, at the very least.

3. Well... Okay, I'll give you that one. Tbh, I really see what he used as more of a purification technique, than a brute-force attack. Kind of like Spirit bomb, in that it couldn't do SIGNIFICANT damage to Frieza, but was able to KILL someone like Kid Buu, just because Kid Buu was PURE evil, like Janemba pretty much was. However, I also doubt that Gogeta could have killed Janemba if he had prolonged the fight. Janemba's greatest displayed power was his power of imitation, and evolution. That's what let him become superior to SSJ3 Goku in the first place, after he was originally thrashed by him. It would depend though, on how far he COULD evolve, but that's neither here, nor there. Anyway, my point was that it took a lot more effort for Gogeta to put Janemba down, than it would have for Vegetto to put Buuhan down, and Buuhan was MONSTROUSLY superior to Buutenks, who was MONSTROUSLY superior to Buucolo, who was MONSTROUSLY superior to Super Buu, who was MORE superior to SSJ3 Goku than Super Janemba was.

4. Well tbh, we've seen the potara fail more times than we have seen fusion fail. We've seen four total instances of the potara being performed incorrectly, like when the witch tricked the old kai, when Kibito fused with Shin, when Goku tried to fuse with Gohan, and when Goku nearly fused as a SSJ, which would have killed him. The potara's require actual, FRAGILE objects to fuse, which can be dropped, lost, destroyed, or even intercepted.

The only times we've seen the fusion dance fail, are three of the times that Trunks and Goten used it. When they became fat and skinny Gotenks, and when they were going to fuse in the ROSAT. Even in the ROSAT though, when Super Buu interrupted it by punching Trunks, all Trunks had to do was lecture him, and remind him that he was trying to power up so they could give Buu a challenge. I know that even 8 year old Trunks was intellectually leaps and bounds above Goku, but if kid Trunks could trick Buu into accepting his challenge like that, then I'm sure Vegeta could as well, making those points, as I said, irrelevant.

5. Galan got to it before me. Yeah though, you usually can't trust DBZ trans on Mangapanda. You'll have to find the Viz translations, to be accurate enough to quote.

But yeah, fusion dance does not get a rival boost. Only the Potara's.

Originally posted by Galan007
Amazing how different that particular scanlation's line is from the VIZ quote:
http://i.imgur.com/Wec2Wh0.png
(Remember, it reads right to left.)

I can't see it on my work computer

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. Yeah, lol. My bad.

2. Alright, but I also never said that Janemba was weaker than SSJ3 Goku. I'm saying that Super Buu is MORE superior to SSJ3 Goku than Super Janemba was, meaning that Super Buu >= Super Janemba, at the very least.

3. Well... Okay, I'll give you that one. Tbh, I really see what he used as more of a purification technique, than a brute-force attack. Kind of like Spirit bomb, in that it couldn't do SIGNIFICANT damage to Frieza, but was able to KILL someone like Kid Buu, just because Kid Buu was PURE evil, like Janemba pretty much was. However, I also doubt that Gogeta could have killed Janemba if he had prolonged the fight. Janemba's greatest displayed power was his power of imitation, and evolution. That's what let him become superior to SSJ3 Goku in the first place, after he was originally thrashed by him. It would depend though, on how far he COULD evolve, but that's neither here, nor there. Anyway, my point was that it took a lot more effort for Gogeta to put Janemba down, than it would have for Vegetto to put Buuhan down, and Buuhan was MONSTROUSLY superior to Buutenks, who was MONSTROUSLY superior to Buucolo, who was MONSTROUSLY superior to Super Buu, who was MORE superior to SSJ3 Goku than Super Janemba was.

4. Well tbh, we've seen the potara fail more times than we have seen fusion fail. We've seen four total instances of the potara being performed incorrectly, like when the witch tricked the old kai, when Kibito fused with Shin, when Goku tried to fuse with Gohan, and when Goku nearly fused as a SSJ, which would have killed him. The potara's require actual, FRAGILE objects to fuse, which can be dropped, lost, destroyed, or even intercepted.

The only times we've seen the fusion dance fail, are three of the times that Trunks and Goten used it. When they became fat and skinny Gotenks, and when they were going to fuse in the ROSAT. Even in the ROSAT though, when Super Buu interrupted it by punching Trunks, all Trunks had to do was lecture him, and remind him that he was trying to power up so they could give Buu a challenge. I know that even 8 year old Trunks was intellectually leaps and bounds above Goku, but if kid Trunks could trick Buu into accepting his challenge like that, then I'm sure Vegeta could as well, making those points, as I said, irrelevant.

5. Galan got to it before me. Yeah though, you usually can't trust DBZ trans on Mangapanda. You'll have to find the Viz translations, to be accurate enough to quote.

But yeah, fusion dance does not get a rival boost. Only the Potara's.

2. Agreed

3. Spirit bomb against Buu was much MUCH more powerful. The one on Namek only used the energy from the planst and animals still alive, which were very few. But this is kinda off topic

4. The potaras worked perfectly with the old lady and the Kai. But how can you honestly believe the dance is easier to perfect than just putting on earrings? You forget the kids had to practice a lot before actually trying it and they still failed. Goku told Vegeta once and boom, done.

5. I can't see the picture posted. Can you tell me what it says exactly?

Originally posted by juggerman
2. Agreed

3. Spirit bomb against Buu was much MUCH more powerful. The one on Namek only used the energy from the planst and animals still alive, which were very few. But this is kinda off topic

4. The potaras worked perfectly with the old lady and the Kai. But how can you honestly believe the dance is easier to perfect than just putting on earrings? You forget the kids had to practice a lot before actually trying it and they still failed. Goku told Vegeta once and boom, done.

5. I can't see the picture posted. Can you tell me what it says exactly?

2. Good, lol. Glad to see someone on here, who can actually debate RATIONALLY, instead of just being a child, lol. Like SOME people... (You know who you are)

3. No, the spirit bomb against Frieza was made by all the living things in the solar system, at that point, including the THREE stars surrounding the planet. That's why the spirit bomb was sooo massive against Frieza. King Kai said it would be hundreds of times stronger on Earth, than on his planet, since the Earth's sun was so much bigger than his planets. And Namek had THREE suns, lol. And the Spirit bomb against Buu didn't have energy from every living thing in the universe, just all those on Earth, the check-in station, and... Yeah, that's it.

4. I'm not saying that the fusion dance is easier to perfect, lol. I'm saying that there are just as many chances for the Potara's to backfire, as there are for the fusion dance. Yes, the fusion between the old lady, and the kai worked, but it was a perfect instance of it BACK-FIRING. It actually made him WEAKER, because it made him an old man for all eternity, lol. That's why Goku didn't want to fuse with Hercule. It's VERY easy for the fusion to make you weaker, with the potara's, since your power levels don't have to be equal. And also, Goku DID try it with Gohan, remember? And the dumb-ass, who can move FTL by farting too hard, and fight at that speed, MISSED it, lol, and ended up getting absorbed, and making Buu a hundred times stronger.

5. Sure.

Basically, Kibito-shin is excited, and he exclaims, "He's incredible!!! Boo is helpless!!! I didn't know the Potara was so powerful!!!", then Elder Kai nonchalantly says, "Dolt. Those two have the power. Two of the greatest masters in the worlds of the living AND the dead. And it doesn't hurt, that they live to outdo each other."

So pretty much, they get a rival bonus, because they constantly one-up themselves, and their fusion is supposedly quite a bit more powerful than the fusion dance, going by Kibito-shin's shock.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
2. Good, lol. Glad to see someone on here, who can actually debate RATIONALLY, instead of just being a child, lol. Like SOME people... (You know who you are)

Why are you always crying like a child and begging for my attention. When you are wrong, I correct you, like a good father should.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Why are you always crying like a child and begging for my attention. When you are wrong, I correct you, like a good father should.

http://www.quickmeme.com/p/3vsf82

lol, you've been embarrassed here, time and time again. How many times is it gonna take, before you realize that you should just go back to licking windows on the short bus?? Along with Yungz/Chasedown, and brem. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if you were ALL the same loser-idiot, lol.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
http://www.quickmeme.com/p/3vsf82

lol, you've been embarrassed here, time and time again. How many times is it gonna take, before you realize that you should just go back to licking windows on the short bus?? Along with Yungz/Chasedown, and brem. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if you were ALL the same loser-idiot, lol.

Why are you so angry inside that you want to call names? I feel you and I are close to a break through here, because I agree with some of what you are saying in the other thread, And I agree with you about combat super speed stuff in the MVF.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Why are you so angry inside that you want to call names? I feel you and I are close to a break through here, because I agree with some of what you are saying in the other thread, And I agree with you about combat super speed stuff in the MVF.

Apples and oranges, pal.

I'm not angry at you, I'm frustrated that you can't accept anything, other than your own, incorrect, illogical view of THIS particular series. I've never argued with you about Superman or anything other than Anime, but I wouldn't want to, considering you are so biased when it comes to anime. I can't imagine how you are, when arguing about comics.

The only debate style I've seen you use, is dodging the topic after you make ridiculous, untrue, bogus, and biased comments, and then throw childish insults at the people proving you wrong. That's not a debate, that's you being a baby.

And you know what, I don't want to stoke the flames here, but this is what I, and everyone else on here(save the idiots that you mistakenly associate yourself with), see WHENEVER you post.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Apples and oranges, pal.

I'm not angry at you, I'm frustrated that you can't accept anything, other than your own, incorrect, illogical view of THIS particular series. I've never argued with you about Superman or anything other than Anime, but I wouldn't want to, considering you are so biased when it comes to anime. I can't imagine how you are, when arguing about comics.

The only debate style I've seen you use, is dodging the topic after you make ridiculous, untrue, bogus, and biased comments, and then throw childish insults at the people proving you wrong. That's not a debate, that's you being a baby.

And you know what, I don't want to stoke the flames here, but this is what I, and everyone else on here(save the idiots that you mistakenly associate yourself with), see WHENEVER you post.

Its not just me who has said you have been wrong, its been Galan, Jugs, Yungz, Brem and chase. Call us idiots, but just because we don't agree with you doesn't make us that. You act like your the authority on DBZ around here, its a little crazy.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
2. Good, lol. Glad to see someone on here, who can actually debate RATIONALLY, instead of just being a child, lol. Like SOME people... (You know who you are)

3. No, the spirit bomb against Frieza was made by all the living things in the solar system, at that point, including the THREE stars surrounding the planet. That's why the spirit bomb was sooo massive against Frieza. King Kai said it would be hundreds of times stronger on Earth, than on his planet, since the Earth's sun was so much bigger than his planets. And Namek had THREE suns, lol. And the Spirit bomb against Buu didn't have energy from every living thing in the universe, just all those on Earth, the check-in station, and... Yeah, that's it.

4. I'm not saying that the fusion dance is easier to perfect, lol. I'm saying that there are just as many chances for the Potara's to backfire, as there are for the fusion dance. Yes, the fusion between the old lady, and the kai worked, but it was a perfect instance of it BACK-FIRING. It actually made him WEAKER, because it made him an old man for all eternity, lol. That's why Goku didn't want to fuse with Hercule. It's VERY easy for the fusion to make you weaker, with the potara's, since your power levels don't have to be equal. And also, Goku DID try it with Gohan, remember? And the dumb-ass, who can move FTL by farting too hard, and fight at that speed, MISSED it, lol, and ended up getting absorbed, and making Buu a hundred times stronger.

5. Sure.

Basically, Kibito-shin is excited, and he exclaims, "He's incredible!!! Boo is helpless!!! I didn't know the Potara was so powerful!!!", then Elder Kai nonchalantly says, "Dolt. Those two have the power. Two of the greatest masters in the worlds of the living AND the dead. And it doesn't hurt, that they live to outdo each other."

So pretty much, they get a rival bonus, because they constantly one-up themselves, and their fusion is supposedly quite a bit more powerful than the fusion dance, going by Kibito-shin's shock.

3. Wow I completely forgot about the Bomb using other planets. Well that settles it, Frieza>>>>>Kid Buu

4. I agree you can mess up the earrings, but in no way can it be as difficult as the dance. Again the kids had to practice for HOURS and still botched it. Plus it can easily be interrupted as you pointed out. Earrings, while not without a downside, are MUCH easier to use and much less likely to fudge up. I think we can agree on that.

5. I got to read it when I got home last night but thanks for your help anyway. You're a class act!

So here's what the scan tell us: Shin exclaims that he never knew the Potaras could produce such power. But the Old Kai calls him a "dolt" or dummy(meaning he's wrong). He says they are so powerful because Goku and Vegeta are uber themselves, plus being rivals, they are even stronger.

He clearly is saying the Potaras are not the reason, but Goku and Vegeta's power and rivalry are why Vegetto is so strong. He basically said right there what I've been saying all along.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yes. I SAID VEGETTO WINS. Because he would, in cannon. In the anime, the only reason Gogeta would win is because of dubbing errors.

Vegetto wins SOLIDLY in base, because not ONLY were the potara "vastly superior to that silly dance", as per ELDER KAI'S OWN WORDS, but Vegetto ALSO got ANOTHER boost, from Goku and Vegeta being rivals. To the point where SSJ1 Vegetto COULD HAVE KILLED BUUHAN WITH A KIAI. Which is JUST A WAVE. Literally.

SSJ3 Goku TEAMED UP with SSJ2 Gohan, WOULD HAVE HAD NO CHANCE AGAINST REGULAR SUPER BUU. This was stated BY GOKU HIMSELF. SSJ3 Goku fought on par with Super Janemba. Super Gogeta beat Super Janemba pretty handily, but didn't take him out with ANYTHING LESS than his strongest attack. Meaning that Super Gogeta wasn't MUCH stronger than SSJ3 Goku, even though he definitely was stronger. SSJ1 Vegetto was strong enough to kill an enemy that was FOUR SSJ'S ABOVE someone that SSJ3 Goku AND SSJ2 Vegeta teamed up, would have had no chance against... WITH A WAVE. SSJ1 Vegetto >>>>> Buuhan >>> Buutenks >>> Buucolo >> Super Buu >> SSJ3 Goku/SSJ2 Vegeta teamed up >>> SSJ3 Goku.

Super Janemba > SSJ3 Goku.

Do you not understand this? Vegetto in BASE FORM would have EATEN Super Janemba. Probably as badly as Super Vegetto would have stomped Buuhan. Meaning that BASE Vegetto would have DEFINITELY been able to put Super Gogeta down, especially considering that base Vegetto is permanent, and Super Gogeta stays fused for less than 30 minutes.

Originally posted by juggerman
3. Wow I completely forgot about the Bomb using other planets. Well that settles it, Frieza>>>>>Kid Buu

4. I agree you can mess up the earrings, but in no way can it be as difficult as the dance. Again the kids had to practice for HOURS and still botched it. Plus it can easily be interrupted as you pointed out. Earrings, while not without a downside, are MUCH easier to use and much less likely to fudge up. I think we can agree on that.

5. I got to read it when I got home last night but thanks for your help anyway. You're a class act!

So here's what the scan tell us: Shin exclaims that he never knew the Potaras could produce such power. But the Old Kai calls him a "dolt" or dummy(meaning he's wrong). He says they are so powerful because Goku and Vegeta are uber themselves, plus being rivals, they are even stronger.

He clearly is saying the Potaras are not the reason, but Goku and Vegeta's power and rivalry are why Vegetto is so strong. He basically said right there what I've been saying all along.

3. lol, you would think so, right? But again, it's just because of the pure nature of the spirit bomb. Which is why Goku even laughed at Vegeta when he suggested a spirit bomb. In retrospect, the spirit bomb is actually a very weak attack, but is stronger, the more evil that an opponent is. For example, while someone like Darkseid is able to tank things Goku couldn't, I could see a spirit bomb being the PERFECT attack to put him down, since he IS pure evil, another pure evil being, like Kid Buu, was completely helpless against it, regardless of him being HUNDREDS of times stronger than SSJ1 Goku.

4. Okay, I can agree to what you're saying. For example, if I personally tried to do the dance, and could somehow perform it, there would be almost NO chance of me doing it perfectly. However, Goten and Trunks are MUCH more skilled, much faster, and much more capable of performing the dance than I, or really any real life person is. Which makes it EASIER for them to do the dance, then it would be for say Trunks to throw a potara to Goten, and for them to use them. Because the potara's use physical objects to fuse, it's EASY to stop the fusion, by destroying the potara's, or simply from one of the party to be air-headed, like Goten is. And if he missed it, then he likely wouldn't find it again, in time to fuse, before the person he needed to fuse against, attacked. So yes, it is obviously easier to screw up the dance, but my point is that that isn't a factor, since these characters perform HUNDREDS of times more complex maneuvers IN THEIR SLEEP. Which is why Piccolo mimicked it perfectly, WHILE Goku was doing it. The FIRST time.

5. Oh, thanks, lol

But I think you might be misinterpreting the scan a bit.

Let me explain.

Kibitoshin was SHOCKED at how strong Vegetto was, even being FULLY aware of NOT ONLY how strong the metamoran fusion dance was, but ALSO the potara's. After all, he IS a potara fusion himself, lol. What this goes to show is that Vegetto is STRONGER than he should have been, even WITH the potara's. Old Kai explains this by mentioning the rivals boost. So basically, BECAUSE of the rivals boost, Vegetto was able to dominate Buuhan, which SHOCKED Kibitoshin. What this implies is that Kibitoshin expected Vegetto to have a hard time with the fight, or at least more difficulty. So, what this scene is saying, is that Vegetto is STRONGER than not only the metamoran fusion of Goku and Vegeta, but ALSO the theoretical potara fusion of the two, WITHOUT the rivals bonus. This means that AT LEAST Super Vegetto > Super Gogeta. This is supporting evidence, to the OTHER claim I brought up.

The other claim being that Buuhan > Super Gogeta. The reason for this is that a theoretical SSJ3 Goten or Trunks would ONE-shot SSJ1 Goku or Vegeta, given that they DID surprise them with their strength, and even manage to trade blows, as SSJ1's. So, SSJ3 Gotenks would be VASTLY capable of ONE-SHOTTING SSJ Gogeta, since the fusion is not only the SAME, but Goten and Trunks are MASTERS of the fusion dance, whereas Goku and Vegeta are not. Even Super Buu in BASE was around equal to SSJ3 Gotenks, which means that Super Buu base > Super Gogeta. Now, we then have Super Vegetto, who DOMINATED BuuHAN. Given this fact, and the fact that base Vegetto LIKELY would have been more than capable of beating Super Buu, we can determine that NOT ONLY is Super Vegetto >>>>>>>>> Super Gogeta, but it's also VERY possible that Base Vegetto is stronger than Super Gogeta.

Hope that clears things up.

Wow, I'm used to thrashing the sad troglodytes on this forum, but this is actually turning out to be a pretty pleasant debate.

clapping

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Wow, I'm used to thrashing the sad troglodytes on this forum, but this is actually turning out to be a pretty pleasant debate.

clapping

I thought you were the troglodyte.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
3. lol, you would think so, right? But again, it's just because of the pure nature of the spirit bomb. Which is why Goku even laughed at Vegeta when he suggested a spirit bomb. In retrospect, the spirit bomb is actually a very weak attack, but is stronger, the more evil that an opponent is. For example, while someone like Darkseid is able to tank things Goku couldn't, I could see a spirit bomb being the PERFECT attack to put him down, since he IS pure evil, another pure evil being, like Kid Buu, was completely helpless against it, regardless of him being HUNDREDS of times stronger than SSJ1 Goku.

4. Okay, I can agree to what you're saying. For example, if I personally tried to do the dance, and could somehow perform it, there would be almost NO chance of me doing it perfectly. However, Goten and Trunks are MUCH more skilled, much faster, and much more capable of performing the dance than I, or really any real life person is. Which makes it EASIER for them to do the dance, then it would be for say Trunks to throw a potara to Goten, and for them to use them. Because the potara's use physical objects to fuse, it's EASY to stop the fusion, by destroying the potara's, or simply from one of the party to be air-headed, like Goten is. And if he missed it, then he likely wouldn't find it again, in time to fuse, before the person he needed to fuse against, attacked. So yes, it is obviously easier to screw up the dance, but my point is that that isn't a factor, since these characters perform HUNDREDS of times more complex maneuvers IN THEIR SLEEP. Which is why Piccolo mimicked it perfectly, WHILE Goku was doing it. The FIRST time.

5. Oh, thanks, lol

But I think you might be misinterpreting the scan a bit.

Let me explain.

Kibitoshin was SHOCKED at how strong Vegetto was, even being FULLY aware of NOT ONLY how strong the metamoran fusion dance was, but ALSO the potara's. After all, he IS a potara fusion himself, lol. What this goes to show is that Vegetto is STRONGER than he should have been, even WITH the potara's. Old Kai explains this by mentioning the rivals boost. So basically, BECAUSE of the rivals boost, Vegetto was able to dominate Buuhan, which SHOCKED Kibitoshin. What this implies is that Kibitoshin expected Vegetto to have a hard time with the fight, or at least more difficulty. So, what this scene is saying, is that Vegetto is STRONGER than not only the metamoran fusion of Goku and Vegeta, but ALSO the theoretical potara fusion of the two, WITHOUT the rivals bonus. This means that AT LEAST Super Vegetto > Super Gogeta. This is supporting evidence, to the OTHER claim I brought up.

The other claim being that Buuhan > Super Gogeta. The reason for this is that a theoretical SSJ3 Goten or Trunks would ONE-shot SSJ1 Goku or Vegeta, given that they DID surprise them with their strength, and even manage to trade blows, as SSJ1's. So, SSJ3 Gotenks would be VASTLY capable of ONE-SHOTTING SSJ Gogeta, since the fusion is not only the SAME, but Goten and Trunks are MASTERS of the fusion dance, whereas Goku and Vegeta are not. Even Super Buu in BASE was around equal to SSJ3 Gotenks, which means that Super Buu base > Super Gogeta. Now, we then have Super Vegetto, who DOMINATED BuuHAN. Given this fact, and the fact that base Vegetto LIKELY would have been more than capable of beating Super Buu, we can determine that NOT ONLY is Super Vegetto >>>>>>>>> Super Gogeta, but it's also VERY possible that Base Vegetto is stronger than Super Gogeta.

Hope that clears things up.

3. Good point. I'll accept that

4. I do see your point and you seem to see mine as well. Safe to say we can put this one to bed.

5. You make a good point but it's hard for me to accept. It just ****ing bothers me for some reason. IDK what it is but it's hard to wrap my head around Vegetto being so different from Gogeta. Maybe I'm just holding on to a belief I've had for some reason. Even now every arguement I think of feels like straw grasping. Dammit!

Originally posted by juggerman
3. Good point. I'll accept that

4. I do see your point and you seem to see mine as well. Safe to say we can put this one to bed.

5. You make a good point but it's hard for me to accept. It just ****ing bothers me for some reason. IDK what it is but it's hard to wrap my head around Vegetto being so different from Gogeta. Maybe I'm just holding on to a belief I've had for some reason. Even now every arguement I think of feels like straw grasping. Dammit!

Wow, it's so refreshing to see someone come to a reasonable conclusion on here! Then I see posts from the idiot who has a crush on me, and won't stop PM-ing me.

5. I TOTALLY understand what you mean bro, lol.

I used to be a hardcore Gogeta > Vegetto fan, but after I started really thinking about it, I realized that there is NO WAY that is possible, since, going by logic... SSJ3 Gotenks would ONE-SHOT Gogeta. That is, honestly, sickening to me. But, alas, it's true.

I just believed them to be even. Not better, no worse just different.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Wow, it's so refreshing to see someone come to a reasonable conclusion on here! Then I see posts from the idiot who has a crush on me, and won't stop PM-ing me.

5. I TOTALLY understand what you mean bro, lol.

I used to be a hardcore Gogeta > Vegetto fan, but after I started really thinking about it, I realized that there is NO WAY that is possible, since, going by logic... SSJ3 Gotenks would ONE-SHOT Gogeta. That is, honestly, sickening to me. But, alas, it's true.

If you could stop lying it would be great, I accidentally sent you a PM.

Proof?



Dumbass.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
If you could stop lying it would be great, I accidentally sent you a PM.

Proof?



Dumbass.

Um, so why did you do it again?




Again, the next time this shit happens, I will report you. AGAIN.

Originally posted by juggerman
I just believed them to be even. Not better, no worse just different.

Yeah, I understand that too, but I used to be kinda in favor of Gogeta.

However, I still stand by the fact that they would probably be even, if AT for some reason made them fight. He's just that inconsistent.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Um, so why did you do it again?




Again, the next time this shit happens, I will report you. AGAIN.

Because you responded and send me once back, if you didn't want a response you should not have sent me one in the first place since you knew it was an accident.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Because you responded and send me once back, if you didn't want a response you should not have sent me one in the first place since you knew it was an accident.

Reported, and blocked.

Thank god, now I never have to talk to your dumbass again.

So basically, just to clear things up, Base Vegetto rage-stomps. Like nobodies business. Because SSJ3 Gotenks would be capable of one-shotting Super Gogeta.

Movie Gogeta wins this match.


Forum Gogeta loses another debate like a cry baby toddler looking for the last word.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Movie Gogeta wins this match.


Forum Gogeta loses another debate like a cry baby toddler looking for the last word.

So your argument here is that... Gogeta wins, right?

Because EVERYONE ELSE has already acknowledged that BASE Vegetto RAGESTOMPS. So swim upstream here if you want pal, but you're doing it for no reason. You might as well change how much the number "2" is equivalent to. You can't change facts, so all you're doing here is making yourself look stupid.

Must I refer you to other posters?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Reported, and blocked.

Oh so you didn't block me...

Look who looks dumb now

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Oh so you didn't block me...

Look who looks dumb now

No, I just unblocked you.

Yes, LOOK who looks dumb now.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, I just unblocked you.

Yes, LOOK who looks dumb now.

Ah so you are flip flop, just like you flip flopped in your opinions.

Good.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ah so you are flip flop, just like you flip flopped in your opinions.

Good.

I have been debating the same thing, this whole time. Base Vegetto >>>>>>>> SSJ Gogeta.

Everyone has already agreed on this.

Do I need to repost? Are you that dumb?

Yes everyone means everyone, but since it was not everyone, I guess your are wrong again..dumbass.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Yes everyone means everyone, but since it was not everyone, I guess your are wrong again..dumbass.

I don't know how you can call me a dumbass, when you're claiming a character WEAKER THAN SSJ3 GOTENKS, would beat a character who rofl-stomped Buuhan with just his legs.

And btw, Juggerman, Sj_Sharp, and every other serious poster on here has agreed. Face it, the only ones are your side are Yungz, and Chasedown, and THEY'RE THE SAME PERSON.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I don't know how you can call me a dumbass, when you're claiming a character WEAKER THAN SSJ3 GOTENKS, would beat a character who rofl-stomped Buuhan with just his legs.

And btw, Juggerman, Sj_Sharp, and every other serious poster on here has agreed. Face it, the only ones are your side are Yungz, and Chasedown, and THEY'RE THE SAME PERSON.

See the other thread..

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
See the other thread..

Don't need to. I know you have downs syndrome, and have forgotten what you're even arguing, but I haven't.

Base Vegetto >>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks >>>>> SSJ1 Gogeta.



Disprove it, or gtfo.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Don't need to. I know you have downs syndrome, and have forgotten what you're even arguing, but I haven't.

Base Vegetto >>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks >>>>> SSJ1 Gogeta.



Disprove it, or gtfo.

Oh so you want to continue being an asshat..

Carry on, dumbass.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Oh so you want to continue being an asshat..

Carry on, dumbass.

Okay, so I win.

Good job admitting defeat, you inbred abomination.

........seriously?
Akira already stated
Vegito>>>>>>>>>>>>Gogeta

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Okay, so I win.

Good job admitting defeat, you inbred abomination.

Ur thumbs up and down are beyond old. Stick them up your ass for better use though..

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ur thumbs up and down are beyond old. Stick them up your ass for better use though..

Keep em coming pal, you're only proving my point even further.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Keep em coming pal, you're only proving my point even further.





Good good, more thumbs up your already gaping lose ass.

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
........seriously?
Akira already stated
Vegito>>>>>>>>>>>>Gogeta
No, he never did.

The Portara fusion was explained to be "better" than the Metamoran's fusion in the manga. But in context of the scene we don't know if "better" meant stronger, or a better way to fuse situationally since Buu would never let Goku and Gohan fuse in the aforementioned manner, which was also brought up.