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Does anyone get the sense that the Nolan Batman movies are now uncool to like, at least on the internet? After Rises came out three years ago, or maybe it was when Batman v Superman came out, the support for the movies just suddenly stopped. You have people shitting all over Rises(Personally, I feel a lot of the criticism of it is deserved, but I still think it's a good movie in spite of its flaws), other people saying that TDK was nothing without Ledger, and even more people saying that Begins has "aged terribly". I'm pretty sure that this is just a combination of a vocal minority of haters as well as trolls(And perhaps overzealous Marvel fans too), but the constant negativity eats at you.

Personally, the only major criticism that I have of these films is the bad fight choreography, especially compared to the Marvel fight choreography(If you want to see "realistic" fighting done with superheroes, just watch Ep. 2 of Daredevil and that hallway scene).

It's partially people being hipster scumbags and partially fanboy scumbags coming to their senses now that the hype has worn off.

A simple way to put it would be that the Nolan Batman films are nowhere near as good as fanboys claim when you put it under unbiased scrutiny, and they probably aren't as terrible as everyone says now.

As far as my personal metric, Begins is okay, TDK is excellent and Rises is terrible.

The TDK Trilogy is a great great story but when you compare it to comic book Batman it falls short by a fair margin of being as good as it could have been had they gone a bit more comic bookey with it

How can it not fall short when it's a much more small and contained story?

Begins aged terribly? If anything, I think it might've aged better than the sequels. But yeah, the fight choreography was always one of the films' weaker aspects.

Get the feeling though there wouldn't of been nearly as much hype backlash in the end as there was if not for most of TDKR's flaws.

Hey even Kevin Feige talks about Batman Begins being the Quintessential superhero reboot. How many superhero movies not made by the MCU actually inspire Feige?


TDKR is definitely the weakest of the trilogy (but how many directors actually make 3 great movies in a row in the same franchise?). But fact is BB and TDK really had a big part in changing the perception of superhero movies. It wasn't just the MCU. Nolan's Batman started the change, then the MCU has made that change a permanent and solid one.

I think what comes under scrutiny with those movies is that after the enjoyment wears off you have that Nolan hangover where it occurs to you that the movie you just enjoyed is filled with logic nonsense.

Second to that I think are folks who see it and think "Man this isn't very 'Batman' of Batman to do this."

Rises is the most egregious of offenders in that regard.

I think they lack some of the fun entertainment value that a lot of these Marvel films have. But Begins and TDK are good films with not so great fight choreography, like RP said. I didn't care for Rises much at all.

I'm kind of down on Nolan lately anyway, because I don't think he's a very good visual director. I hated Interstellar.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
It's partially people being hipster scumbags and partially fanboy scumbags coming to their senses now that the hype has worn off.

A simple way to put it would be that the Nolan Batman films are nowhere near as good as fanboys claim when you put it under unbiased scrutiny, and they probably aren't as terrible as everyone says now.



More or less.

Originally posted by Tzeentch


A simple way to put it would be that the Nolan Batman films are nowhere near as good as fanboys claim


It's hardly just fanboys who claim that though. Those movies are pretty beloved worldwide tbh.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's hardly just fanboys who claim that though. Those movies are pretty beloved worldwide tbh.

Well sure but for different reasons.

People close to the fandom get irritated because it's still not the definitive cinematic BATMAN yet. Which in all likelihood we'll never be pleased with, collectively.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Hey even Kevin Feige talks about Batman Begins being the Quintessential superhero reboot. How many superhero movies not made by the MCU actually inspire Feige?


TDKR is definitely the weakest of the trilogy (but how many directors actually make 3 great movies in a row in the same franchise?). But fact is BB and TDK really had a big part in changing the perception of superhero movies. It wasn't just the MCU. Nolan's Batman started the change, then the MCU has made that change a permanent and solid one.




Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's hardly just fanboys who claim that though. Those movies are pretty beloved worldwide tbh.

the only backlash i know of is the trilogy's effect on the comic-to-film industry. After the nolan movies, studios think dark/grounded is the way to go, and a lot fans hate it, me included.

The most sensible thing they done was keep it to 3 movies. It was quickly running out of steam with its more 'realistic' take.

My hope, and no doubt will require, is that BvS has a vastly more powerful and future tech equipped Batman. If they simply go down the 'uses kryptonite to weaken superman' route I'll be very disappointed. They should amp batman rather than the opposite to make it a an equal contest

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's hardly just fanboys who claim that though. Those movies are pretty beloved worldwide tbh. I didn't say that liking the films makes you a fanboy.

Originally posted by marwash22
the only backlash i know of is the trilogy's effect on the comic-to-film industry. After the nolan movies, studios think dark/grounded is the way to go, and a lot fans hate it, me included.


so you'll hate batman v superman, suicide squad etc

maybe. i have no way of knowing.

i thoroughly enjoyed MoS.

My preference would be for comic movies to not have overly dark tones or grounded realism, but that doesn't mean i will hate it once i see it. I always go into movies with an open mind.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
I didn't say that liking the films makes you a fanboy.


You said the films are nowhere near as good as the fanboys claim. My point was it's not just the hardore fanboys who claim that those films were Epic. It's tons of movie goers. Even the vast majority of movie critics.



Originally posted by jaden101


If they simply go down the 'uses kryptonite to weaken superman' route I'll be very disappointed. They should amp batman rather than the opposite to make it a an equal contest


It will likely be both.

They will amp Batman with some armored tech suit, but that would still make Superman look pretty weak, so on top of that Kryptonite will likely be used.

That way it can be an equal fight which could look awesome as well. Instead of just having Superman jobbing to a hi-tech suit. Or just having a normal Batman standing there with a piece of Krytonite slapping Superman around akin to what Lex Luthor did in Superman Returns. There was nothing awesome about that little slap around.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You said the films are nowhere near as good as the fanboys claim. My point was it's not just the hardore fanboys who claim that those films were Epic. It's tons of movie goers. Even the vast majority of movie critics.






It will likely be both.

They will amp Batman with some armored tech suit, but that would still make Superman look pretty weak, so on top of that Kryptonite will likely be used.

That way it can be an equal fight which could look awesome as well. Instead of just having Superman jobbing to a hi-tech suit. Or just having a normal Batman standing there with a piece of Krytonite slapping Superman around akin to what Lex Luthor did in Superman Returns. There was nothing awesome about that little slap around.

Supes has to job though

On the internet at least one of the major complaints is that it isn't like "comic Batman" where it doesn't suck his dick by being the greatest scientist, weapons developer, detective, martial arts master all at once.

Marvel fanboys attack it's "darkness" because it's not Marvel so they don't count as valid complainers.

Then there's some shitting on Rises for some of it's plot points but not the trilogy as a whole.

My biggest gripe with TDK & TDKR was that Nolan went over board with his grand visions. Too many minor characters & their minor stories to tell...taking up screen time & taking the focus away from the main character...Batman/Bruce Wayne.

Nolan focussed on too many victims that essentially made Batman a shallow tie-in to each victim's plight instead of their saving grace.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You said the films are nowhere near as good as the fanboys claim. My point was it's not just the hardore fanboys who claim that those films were Epic. It's tons of movie goers. Even the vast majority of movie critics. Anyone who thinks that the trilogy is perfect and beyond reproach would be filed under the "fanboy" category.

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Originally posted by Inhuman
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man....that is some very bad fight choreography lmao!

Originally posted by Inhuman
http://i.imgur.com/r01xWOJ.gif

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http://i.imgur.com/oApnw1L.gif Yea, definitely never watched the movies for the fight scenes.

Yeah... the fight scenes in TDKR make the Black Widow hair-slap look like a real fighting technique.

I think it's partially Marvel putting out loads of movies that everyone loved that were complete opposites to the tone and world of the Nolan Batman trilogy. People loved the first two movies but by the time of TDKR people had started to aggressively turn against the "realistic" aspects in this movie and others. And Rises being mediocre just helped that along. By the time Man of Steel came out people actively hated the grim, humorless tone, dark colors and more grounded story.

I'm not sure that explains all the negativity though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
By the time Man of Steel came out people actively hated the grim, humorless tone, dark colors and more grounded story.




But now love it again with the release of Daredevil

I don't think people give a shit about the gritty mcgrit grit atmosphere of the Daredevil/Batman series because that tone actually fits the characters. Batman is a morbid, humorless ****-face, as is all of Gotham. Same with Daredevil and Hell's Kitchen.

By comparison, Superman is not a dark, gritty character outside of a handful of alternate-universe/what-if portrayals. Sure, he's not sunshine and smiles all day everyday, but then neither is Captain America. Ultimately though they're both beacons of hope and goodness that are supposed to inspire those around them with their uplifting personas, and that same sense is supposed to bleed into the audience. Captain America achieves this in his movies, thus far Superman has not, and that's because his world is so ****ing depressing and cold all the time.

It just doesn't fit the character. Winter Soldier is all the proof you need that you don't need grit to showcase mature themes.

Unless you actually are a fan of the character and read the comics, I think that's a pretty shitty criticism.

What?

Unless you are a fan of the source material then criticizing it from deviating from the source material is pretty ridiculous.

****ed up tone isn't the same thing as source material inaccuracies.

You wouldn't need to be intimately familiar with the Star Wars universe to criticize the Force Awakens for being a romantic comedy, nor would you need to read Batman comics to realize that a weed-comedy Batman film along the vein of Cheech and Chong would be retarded.

But there are plenty of depressing Suprman stories. Hell, perhaps the most famous Superman comic (Death of Superman) is depressing. Now I agree, I wish the film was far more optimistic and upbeat and I think accusing it of being too dark and too dreary is a very fair criticism. But simply saying "dat ain't Superman" based solely on preconceived (and often flawed) notions of what the character is is not a valid one.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
I don't think people give a shit about the gritty mcgrit grit atmosphere of the Daredevil/Batman series because that tone actually fits the characters. Batman is a morbid, humorless ****-face, as is all of Gotham.

I didn't just say it was the atmosphere, it's also the whole "realistic" low-powered setting. And you're generalizing, Batman doesn't need to be that way and actually hasn't been for the majority of his media in all likelihood.

Also my experience does suggest its partly the tone that's the problem. I've seen a lot of people criticising the way the Nolan films do things and getting pissed about DC Nolan-ising their movies and shows. A lot of people praising Marvel for being "fun" followed by bitter comments about Nolan and Man of Steel and the Wonder Woman + Batman vs Superman things.

And only 50% of those comments were from Moviebob.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think it's partially Marvel putting out loads of movies that everyone loved that were complete opposites to the tone and world of the Nolan Batman trilogy. People loved the first two movies but by the time of TDKR people had started to aggressively turn against the "realistic" aspects in this movie and others. And Rises being mediocre just helped that along. By the time Man of Steel came out people actively hated the grim, humorless tone, dark colors and more grounded story.

I'm not sure that explains all the negativity though.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

I don't think Rises is mediocre, though. It's a mess of a movie, but certain scenes are exceptionally well done. It's the Heaven's Gate of Batman movies.

Originally posted by Inhuman
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Eh...the second one isn't SO bad because it was meant to be a joke.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Eh...the second one isn't SO bad because it was meant to be a joke.

And yet you fail to see the humour of 4 guys attacking Batman in hand to hand combat...forgetting they're all holding guns.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
And yet you fail to see the humour of 4 guys attacking Batman in hand to hand combat...forgetting they're all holding guns.

Conservation of Ninjutsu. It's pretty common in most superhero and action stories. Plus, I suppose you could argue that seeing Batman pop out of nowhere is freaky and broke their concentration. Otherwise? Yeah, terrible fight choreography.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
And yet you fail to see the humour of 4 guys attacking Batman in hand to hand combat...forgetting they're all holding guns.

One was intentional, the other isn't. Rises nitpicking is old, do something from Begins.

Originally posted by Based
One was intentional, the other isn't. Rises nitpicking is old, do something from Begins.

What the hell do you mean, one's intentional while the other isn't?

All 3 are examples of bad fight sequences by the same choreographer.

I honestly can't think of any nitpickings from Begins...TDK & TDKR progressively went downhill afterwards.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Conservation of Ninjutsu. It's pretty common in most superhero and action stories. Plus, I suppose you could argue that seeing Batman pop out of nowhere is freaky and broke their concentration. Otherwise? Yeah, terrible fight choreography.

Care to explain what happens to hired goon on the far left. The one that falls/slips/KO's himself?

Originally posted by Inhuman
Care to explain what happens to hired goon on the far left. The one that falls/slips/KO's himself? Batman's shadow punched him.

Originally posted by Mindset
Batman's shadow punched him.

batman found a way

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Plus, I suppose you could argue that seeing Batman pop out of nowhere is freaky and broke their concentration.

I'm not having a go at you...but yeah it would've been an awesome scene for Batman to pop out of the darkness...but sadly Nolan gave us a Batman (who in this scene) casually walks down the well lighted road to meet his armed assailants.

http://i.imgur.com/2Eo8P1d.gif

I don't get why the fight choreography was so shitty, it's like they did it intentionally.

Its part of Nolans "charm"

Is not like the fight choreography was really better in the previous two movies either, but that was kinda overlooked in comparison since they had a number of other qualities to make up for them, while Rises tended to rely more on the subpar choreography for the action.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
while Rises tended to rely more on the subpar choreography for the action.

I did enjoy the "implied" violence in Begins where Batman utilised the shadows to take down the crims.
However the subpar choreography became too obvious in TDKR when gunmen were throwing punches back...instead of shooting the guns they were holding.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I'm not having a go at you...but yeah it would've been an awesome scene for Batman to pop out of the darkness...but sadly Nolan gave us a Batman (who in this scene) casually walks down the well lighted road to meet his armed assailants.

...After knocking out a good chunk of them with tranquilizer darts.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Care to explain what happens to hired goon on the far left. The one that falls/slips/KO's himself?

My pet theory is that he slipped on the ice and just played dead rather than face Batman. He knew he was done for either way.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
My pet theory is that he slipped on the ice and just played dead rather than face Batman. He knew he was done for either way.

And Batman fell for it?

What a detective!

Originally posted by ares834
But there are plenty of depressing Suprman stories. Hell, perhaps the most famous Superman comic (Death of Superman) is depressing. Now I agree, I wish the film was far more optimistic and upbeat and I think accusing it of being too dark and too dreary is a very fair criticism. But simply saying "dat ain't Superman" based solely on preconceived (and often flawed) notions of what the character is is not a valid one. Death of Superman had a vibrant color palette and showcased Superman being the inspirational icon he was meant to be, despite the comic itself being depressing.

In fact, the reason the comic was depressing is because Superman is this beacon of hope. Seeing that hope dashed is sad as ****.

The problem with Man of Steel is that there is no hope to be found. The washed out, shitgrey color palette and the overall depressing atmosphere and tone do nothing to make you care if Superman fails. I feel no reason to give a **** about Pa Kent being killed because of how insanely shitdark and morbid the character and context is.

Also, if the movie isn't even going to try to capture the tone of the character being adapted, why is it a Superman movie? When you attach the name onto something, there needs to be something of the source material there. The only moment in Man of Steel that is Supermanly (other than the admittedly awesome fight sequences) is the first flying scene.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
And Batman fell for it?

What a detective!

Well, he got arrested by the cops. Maybe he was shot for his troubles off camera.