Kaiyoken vs Super Saiyan

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carver9
Don't know if I spelled that right but can the Kaiyoken be more or as effective as the Super Saiyan transformation?

SSJGGogeta
Um... Clearly not.

It can be stacked onto it though, most likely.

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
Don't know if I spelled that right but can the Kaiyoken be more or as effective as the Super Saiyan transformation? *Kaioken

In answer to your question: no. The SSJ multiplier(s) are FAR superior to anything we saw from Kaioken. Aside from that, a Kaioken attack is also much more short-lived/physically taxing than a SSJ transformation(sans SSJ3.)

Jmanghan
x100 Kaioken is stronger then SSJ

carver9
Originally posted by Jmanghan
x100 Kaioken is stronger then SSJ

Which should be well within Goku abilities to do after the Frieza saga.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by carver9
Which should be well within Goku abilities to do after the Frieza saga.

Assuming that such a thing even exists. erm

Not to mention that 25X could be the peak that Goku's body could sustain, no matter what. SSJ1 simply allows him to go past that.

Astner
Higher levels of Kaio-ken was primarily used in short bursts, and not like the Super Saiyan transformation.

http://i.imgur.com/xdEy0Nem.jpg

Time Immemorial
Kaioken trumps Super Saijen in short bursts, as shown.

RaOYyouxa68

/thread

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Kaioken trumps Super Saijen in short bursts, as shown.

RaOYyouxa68

/thread

Problem. That was used in CONJUNCTUION with the Super Saiyan Transformation.

The Super Kaioken can be considered the equivelant of a standard x1.5 Kaioken for Goku's base form. Basically put, it's the Super Saiyan multiplier of a base form Goku x1.5

To answer the thread question, the Super Saiyan is a transformation, while the Kaioken is a time limited power boosting technique. Basically put, the Kaioken is a stopgap measure.

Time Immemorial
Looked a lot like he went back toe black hair goku though.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Astner
Higher levels of Kaio-ken was primarily used in short bursts, and not like the Super Saiyan transformation.

http://i.imgur.com/xdEy0Nem.jpg

Um... Yes, obviously, but Kaioken goes up to only 20X, from what we've seen. SSJ1 is a 50X boost.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Looked a lot like he went back toe black hair goku though.

Um... Then get your eyes checked.

Not to mention, that was filler. And he was STILL a Super Saiyan in that scene, pal.

thumb up

Time Immemorial
Ok well it turned more red then black, guess he was SSG then:P

Ridley_Prime
Then Goku must have secretly been SSJG (non blue haired variant) for a couple moments in Lord Slug also. thumb up

Darkstorm Zero
wow, this entire train of thought I've started turned out to be about as useful as a turd on a plate....

Time Immemorial
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
wow, this entire train of thought I've started turned out to be about as useful as a turd on a plate....

Nah what you said earlier was legit.

Q99
Kaiyoken is a much more narratively interesting technique, but it's not stronger.

Jmanghan
Kaioken x100 was used in GT.

Dramatic Gecko
Power between KaoKen and Super Saiyan seems to far apart for KaoKen to catch up. If he gets strong enough to perform 100X KaoKen then his Super Saiyan would be more than that is my guess.

Super Saiyan X50 Goku's power isn't an absolute rule. It was just a rough estimate of how much stronger he got on Namek. Considering how much stronger the form got I'd wager that SSJ transformations are exponential changes in power while KaoKen is simply a multiplier.

Q99
Too bad Uub never learned Kaio-ken. That'd like... beat everything ^^ Everything ever.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Um... Yes, obviously, but Kaioken goes up to only 20X, from what we've seen. SSJ1 is a 50X boost.



Um... Then get your eyes checked.

Not to mention, that was filler. And he was STILL a Super Saiyan in that scene, pal.

thumb up SSJ4 Gogeta used Kaioken x100.

Goku gave up on Kaioken because he got Super Saiyan Powers.

bbrem123
They both amplify the individual to a specific degree. The difference is that kaioken in theory could stack on things such as super saiyan.

Hold on a second. Doesnt kaioken x2 double the users power? and x3 triples their power and so on. If that is true x2 kaioken in super saiyan would equal ssj2.

Probably why kaioken does not exist anymore ha.

carver9
Can the Kaioken get more powerful than the Super Saiyan though depending on the amount of power that is being applied?

Jmanghan
Well, assuming that SSJ1 is 50x, and the highest shown Kaioken was in GT, which was 100x.

Yes, Kaioken can be more powerful.

Galan007
Kaioken was never used in GT. srsly

Jmanghan
SSJ4 Gogeta used Kaioken x100 against Omega Shenron.

Galan007
No, he didn't.

Jmanghan
Ah, Sorry mate, I got 100x Kaioken confused with x100 Big Bang Kamehameha.

Although it does say on the DB wiki that Goku used Kaioken x100 to rip through Lord Slug's chest.

Jmanghan
Aside from my ****ed up PS Vita browser.

Galan007
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Although it does say on the DB wiki that Goku used Kaioken x100 to rip through Lord Slug's chest. Yeah, that bit of info was never included in the film itself. It was mentioned in an issue of Shonen Jump which stated that Goku used "Kaioken Hyakubai", which roughly translates to "Kaioken x100"(Hyaku=100.)

Regardless, films and anime filler are non-canon, and do not reflect on the Z Fighters' canonical powersets at all. For example, the films/filler also had Goku using a Super Kaioken, absorbing a Genki Dama, actively fighting whilst using IT, using a Dragon Fist, etc.--none of which he's displayed in canon.

Jmanghan
Yeah, but the point was that he still used it.

Even if it was from GT, it was still gonna be non-canon.

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