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Orbalisk Bane and B-team: Mace, Fisto, Kolar and Tiin.

Setting: Palpatine's office

Instead of facing Sidious, the Jedi PT team fights Bane.

Mace could probably solo, with the others this is a stomp.

The others are irrelevant, this is Bane vs Mace.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Mace could probably solo, with the others this is a stomp. Srs? Oh how the mighty Bane has fallen.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The others are irrelevant, this is Bane vs Mace.
Well, those 3 are celebrated swordsmen.

Oh really.

Yeah, that's what I've heard.

Eh, none of them could beat him in a conventional way (by slashing his torso, I mean), but considering that Mace has shatterpoint, as well as Bane's head still being vulnerable, which they would notice, I'd say the team stomps.

Not to mention that Fisto, Kolar and Tiin are all high level swordmasters.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The others are irrelevant, this is Bane vs Mace.

The others were minor aid even against Sidious (especially Fisto, but even the other two made Sids use all his initial rush against them rather than the biggest threat, and let Windu get into good position as well as using up Sid's rush), and Bane's no Sidious.

Let me remind you a loser like Johun who wouldn't last 2 second vs Bane on his own, was able to actually score a strong strike against Bane that hurt his arm, in a 3 on 1.

Bane's going to be fairly overwhelmed, and every Jedi here can usefully contribute. Even the ones who aren't strong enough to do much against Bane solo.

I think Bane is a Sidious, so thats the position I'm coming from. Johun managed to tag him while under battle meditation and while BM Raskta and Farfalla were also attacking him. None of the B team can contribute against a guy as fast and powerful as Bane. They'd be blitzed or crushed with the Force.

Bane is no Sidious by any means. PT strike team > ROT strike team any day of the week.

That's a fair opinion.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Mace is already a more capable swordsman than Raskta, and Vaapad's loop should account for the advantages Battle Meditation as well; unlike her, he's a powerful enough to hold his ground here, and against Bane shatterpoint will be particularly effective. I think it's very possible that he could solo.

Even assuming he can't, he still has three of the most celebrated swordsmen in the Order backing him up; I can't see even a Battle Meditated Valenthyne Farfalla being more impactful in the dueling portion than any one of them. With all three of them there beside Mace, especially without Zannah there to take one of them off Bane's back, he gets absolutely slaughtered.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think Bane is a Sidious, so thats the position I'm coming from. Johun managed to tag him while under battle meditation and while BM Raskta and Farfalla were also attacking him.

Kolar or Tiin > Johun with BM, let alone Kolar AND Tiin.




Blitzing someone or wasting time on the force while there's a major threat like Mace on the other side is potentially a game-loser in a fight.

Sidious would've had a much better chance against Mace if he did his rush against Windu to put him on the defensive first off. But instead, he had to take down two others, and even defend against Fisto some. By which point Windu had the initiative and never lost it.

And all of the B team are stronger than people who did contribute against Bane, and there's more of them, so... gonna disagree.


Even if someone isn't strong enough to contribute when there's just one of them, there simply being three of them increases their contribution.


The multi-on-one fights against strong people in SW regularly show numbers matter and even weaker people can contribute, if often only a little... and even the 'weakest' Jedi here could overwhelm BM'd Johun.

Originally posted by Q99
Kolar or Tiin > Johun with BM, let alone Kolar AND Tiin.

Johun had Raskta there accentuating his performance and covering his back. Even Zannah could have easily killed Johun at almost any point but kept him alive because he hindered Sarro. But Raskta was good enough to thrive on Johun's presence and make him an actual benefit to the team, putting Bane under more pressure. Battle Meditiation enhances coordination as well iirc. Also Johun wasn't all that terrible of a Jedi.

Originally posted by Q99
Blitzing someone or wasting time on the force while there's a major threat like Mace on the other side is potentially a game-loser in a fight.

Sidious would've had a much better chance against Mace if he did his rush against Windu to put him on the defensive first off. But instead, he had to take down two others, and even defend against Fisto some. By which point Windu had the initiative and never lost it.

Bane has a much easier time than Sidious with the orbalisks though. He can just run in and brush off their counter attack while cutting his opponents down. So the potential for a "game-loser" is much small given Bane's innately better defense compared to Sidious.

I haven't said that Bane wins here. Mace could pull off a similar win as in the movie. I just think the B team would be as effective here as they were against Sidious.

Originally posted by Q99
And all of the B team are stronger than people who did contribute against Bane, and there's more of them, so... gonna disagree.

Raskta was arguably a better swordsman than any of the B team and was enhanced by BM and was using a saber style Bane's not great at fighting against. Even if the B team was better, the battle meditation tips the scales decidedly by empowering the team and depowering Bane. The start of the fight in RoT was Raskta and Farfalla just doing enough to not get one-shot by Bane, because of the BM.

Originally posted by Q99
Even if someone isn't strong enough to contribute when there's just one of them, there simply being three of them increases their contribution.

They need the chance to contribute. IMO they won't get that because a few of them will get cut down at the start, or taken out with the Force. You yourself have pointed out that Mace needs some time to get his Vapaad ready and seize the initiative, so Kolar and Tiin will go down in that time.

Originally posted by Q99
The multi-on-one fights against strong people in SW regularly show numbers matter and even weaker people can contribute, if often only a little... and even the 'weakest' Jedi here could overwhelm BM'd Johun.

And the RotS fight just happened to be a time when numbers didn't matter at all.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Mace could probably solo, with the others this is a stomp.
This.

Even a looser such as Johun was able to hit unprotected part of Bane's hand. Against duelists like Fisto, Kolar or Tiin Bane would lost his hand in similar situation.

Bane gets stomped again

Johun with Battle Meditation isn't even above Quinlan, who kissed Agen's boots. Mace is easily > Raskta, and with Kit >>> Farfall and Saesee there as well, Bane dies a miserable death, unfortunately.

You should give him DoE Zannah (on Ambria) and somebody else for any semblance of a fair fight.

Hmm. Ok, what if DoE Zannah and Cognus are on Bane's side. No DS nexus, though.

Fair fight, I guess. There is a chance of Bane's team winning at least, but I'm not sure if they do. Probably not, to be honest. I wonder how well the Huntress will perform. If she just gets her ass kicked, she's of no use and the team loses again.

What?

Originally posted by Nephthys

They need the chance to contribute.

Not really.

If someone just has, say, a *button* they have to push occasionally during a fight, that's still a disadvantage. "Take out the occasional quarter-second pause to do a minor task" can prevent someone the opportunity to attack, or it can give an opening for their foe to press the advantage, or so on. It matters.



Which all takes time. If someone is cut down with the force, then someone else has that time to more advantageously position themselves. If someone is taken out with the force, then someone else can force-attack at the same time.

If someone force attacks and takes someone else out, but then the attacker is hit with a force-push in return, then the dying person still contributed and the attacker still lost the initiative.

The way you talk about it it sounds like "every stands still while the one is given a chance to individually take time to take out everyone who's individually weak," and it just has never worked that way. If someone is attacking a weak person, then that still gives another strong person enough time to attack them. That the weak person is weak doesn't suddenly make it take 0 time, it still takes a quarter second, a half second, or in the case of these councilors, probably more like 5-10 seconds.





One, I really doubt they'll go down that fast, this is not Sidious, Bane doesn't rush in the same way. Each of them on their own is probably strong enough to last a few exchanges with Bane.

Two, that still gives Mace the advantage. Fisto and Windu will then proceed to be in great positions to attack Bane and take the win.






Mace got Sidious on his back due to having those three.

There's an odd definition of 'didn't matter' that includes 'changed the outcome completely to his favor'.

Originally posted by Q99
The way you talk about it it sounds like "every stands still while the one is given a chance to individually take time to take out everyone who's individually weak," and it just has never worked that way.

Isn't that literally what happened in RotS?

And? Bane is a few leagues below Sidious in terms of skill, power and speed.