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Force battle only.

Which team takes it?

Geth loses to Talzin before Sidious beats Vitiate.

Team 1.

Geth is stronger than Talzin...

She's really not, and even if she was, combat wise she doesn't come close.

Beth's "one shot" of Luke was a spell. Talzin's Attack on Dooku was far more impressive. Her killing of the Stormtroopers is an impressive feat, but it was a telepathic Attack (judging by the way the Troops acted before they died) which would have nothing on Talzin TP'ing Dooku.

Talzin has also shown a force barrier capable of holding back Dooku and Sidious at once, while she was weakened. Please explain what Gethzerion would do with Sidious calibre Lightning thrown her way, because that's how she's going to die.

Originally posted by Selenial
She's really not, and even if she was, combat wise she doesn't come close.

Beth's "one shot" of Luke was a spell. Talzin's Attack on Dooku was far more impressive. Her killing of the Stormtroopers is an impressive feat, but it was a telepathic Attack (judging by the way the Troops acted before they died) which would have nothing on Talzin TP'ing Dooku.

How is a spell that you can use in combat less impressive than a spell you need a cauldron for? And how is murdering a hundred people with your mind less impressive than possessing Dooku?

Originally posted by Nephthys
How is a spell that you can use in combat less impressive than a spell you need a cauldron for? And how is murdering a hundred people with your mind less impressive than possessing Dooku?

Except she obviously didn't manage to kill Luke, and Talzin was torturing him. Since she could have flat out killed Dooku with Drain, I don't think that particularly matters. Noting of course that Dooku would have been a far harder target than Luke.

And I just don't find it as impressive. Force users have far greater defenses. I don't personally see why Gethzerion's stormtrooper feat is better than Talzin's "dazzling force illusion".

Care to explain?

That she didn't kill Luke is irrelevant, she whooped his ass using a technique that's actually relevant to a fight, unlike Talzin's voodoo bs. Unless she has her cauldron it's pointless to mention imo. And the whole episode was a race against time until Dooku expired from the spell, so I highly doubt Talzin could have killed him at any point. Also I'm not convinced that Dooku > Luke.

That doesn't mean that its a hundred times easier to kill a normal person as it is to possess Dooku. Killing a hundred dudes is also much more combat applicable than possessing someone, especially since we don't actually know that Dooku could have put up any kind of defense. And I'm not sure Gethzerion used telepathy at all. But if it is, then yeah I think killing a hundred people with telepathy is better than possessing Dooku. By quite a lot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That she didn't kill Luke is irrelevant, she whooped his ass using a technique that's actually relevant to a fight, unlike Talzin's voodoo bs. Unless she has her cauldron it's pointless to mention imo. And the whole episode was a race against time until Dooku expired from the spell, so I highly doubt Talzin could have killed him at any point. Also I'm not convinced that Dooku > Luke.

That doesn't mean that its a hundred times easier to kill a normal person as it is to possess Dooku. Killing a hundred dudes is also much more combat applicable than possessing someone, especially since we don't actually know that Dooku could have put up any kind of defense. And I'm not sure Gethzerion used telepathy at all. But if it is, then yeah I think killing a hundred people with telepathy is better than possessing Dooku. By quite a lot.

It's perfectly relevant. Dooku would have a far better resistance to force attacks than Luke, and Talzin explicitly states to him that she wants to make him suffer before she kills him.

No, it's probably even more. Besides, TP'ing 100 stormtroopers is completely different to TP'ing someone powerful. Talzin has good telepathic defense, obviously, since Dooku is adept in Telepathy and could not resist her. If you think she can TP kill Talzin, it's frankly unsubstantiated bias.

Draining Dooku to death is still more important, and far more applicable than her destruction of the stormies.

If you want to compare their power, the only real thing they've done the same is creating storms. Of which Talzin's reached hurricane speeds, tore trees from their roots and cast a torrential rain in minutes...

Originally posted by Selenial
Geth loses to Talzin before Sidious beats Vitiate.

Team 1.
Emperor Vitiate 'can' defeat Darth Sidious.

As for the outcome, I agree with you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Emperor Vitiate 'can' defeat Darth Sidious..

To be honest, in a force only fight with ROTS Sidious, I'm inclined to agree.

I'm going with Team 1. I'm assuming this is "prime" Vitiate (3.0) and if that's the case Vitiate >> RoTS Sidious. For the other two i'm thinking that it would be a stalemate until Vitiate can squash Gethzerion. How I think it would go is Vitiate and Sidious would probably open with a clash of FL, which I'm inclined to say Viti would win. Then probably TK or something, where I'm also thinking Vitiate. If it comes to sorcery and such then Vitiate will swat Sidious, but otherwise it would be a pretty good fight. For Talzin vs Gethzerion I'm thinking Talzin will throw up her green sphere of protectyness and then follow up with her ba af lightning beamy thing and stuff, to which Gethzerion would probably have some form of defense, or will counter with FL and such. I'm not sure where it would go after that but it would probably be a stalemate up until Vitiate can come and stomp Gethzerion.

Originally posted by Selenial
To be honest, in a force only fight with ROTS Sidious, I'm inclined to agree.

I'm really surprised to hear that.

Originally posted by Sinious
I'm really surprised to hear that.

*shrug*

Sidious would beat him in an actual fight, but I don't know, Vitiate feels more tailored to a force cast off.

Not saying he's stronger in the force, but Sidious' insane abilities in Speed/Valor etc aren't exactly going to come into play. I guess you people just assume i have some mad Sidious Bias, when he's honestly pretty low down on my list of favorite characters. Boring AF tbh.

Originally posted by Selenial


Sidious would beat him in an actual fight, but I don't know, Vitiate feels more tailored to a force cast off.

That's what I think too.



I don't mind your Sidious bias pumpkin. I was just surprised to see you place Vitiate so highly.

Team 1,
Sidious could probably beat Vitiate in an all out fight, but with raw force power i say Vitiate beats him.
And Talzin and Gatherizon are pretty much on the same level in my eyes but Talzin wins if anything.

Sidious and Gatherizon

Sidious is the most powerful with this means he will beat vitiate

Gatherizon might be able to either stalemate or beat talzin, however I believe she will stalemate her then Sidious will aid gath and destroy talzin.

Gethzerion beats Talzin, Sidious beats Vitiate.

Explanations as to why Geth beats Talzin. No one has come up with a legitimate reason yet. I suggest y'all read: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/aurbere/blog/mother-talzin-respect-thread/103955/

Read it, Gethzerion can still win. She has higher levels of speed and just seems more powerful based on some of the effects she causes just by getting angry, which I've never seen happen with Talzin.

Then there's her hundred-and-one demolishing feat, which beats out any feat Talzin has to offer, including contending with Sidious. It's a close fight, I have no doubt of that, but Gethzerion comes out the victor, if only just.

Not sure how on earth killing one hundred Stormtroopers beats stalemating the greatest force lightning Wielder in history. She destroyed a dozen droids with her lightning effortlessly, and her bubble showed no sign of weakness against them or against the Lightning.

Talzin's Storm showings are superior, so Thats wrong.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, your argument is basically Gethzerion because reasons? Ok.

Talzins seriously underestimated here.

Like, a hundred StormTroopers. Cool.

Sidious said the entire droid army would fail to take Talzin down.

Sidious has only killed comparable amounts of Stormtroopers with Lightning after a dramatic increase in power following Talzin's death. And even after improving he feared Gethzerion's power.

And Canon doesn't acknowledge Legends, so Sidious's Lightning isn't as impressive. EU Sidious would spank her in the Force.

Talzin's Storm showings aren't more impressive at all - Gethzerion causes them through sheer anger, and she's displayed far more intricacy with them. Talzin's ability to manipulate mists is interesting but doesn't make her Storms more impressive.

That's because the droids can't take down Talzin's essence form, but she can't do anything back. Gethzerion is stated to possess countless spells from the Nightsister Book of Shadows, but even if none of the spells there can do anything to Talzin's essence, Talzin can't do anything back and it's either Talzin dying or running away as an essence, in which case Gethzerion and Sidious force Vitiate to bow down to them.

Originally posted by Selenial
It's perfectly relevant. Dooku would have a far better resistance to force attacks than Luke, and Talzin explicitly states to him that she wants to make him suffer before she kills him.

No, it's probably even more. Besides, TP'ing 100 stormtroopers is completely different to TP'ing someone powerful. Talzin has good telepathic defense, obviously, since Dooku is adept in Telepathy and could not resist her. If you think she can TP kill Talzin, it's frankly unsubstantiated bias.

Draining Dooku to death is still more important, and far more applicable than her destruction of the stormies.

If you want to compare their power, the only real thing they've done the same is creating storms. Of which Talzin's reached hurricane speeds, tore trees from their roots and cast a torrential rain in minutes...

I'm not sure Dooku has any resistance to Nightsister magic. Wheras TK is pretty simple to defend against. And if Talzin was really drawing it out, then she's an utter idiot because Grievous was slaughtering her people to get to her in time. Regardless there's no indication she actually could have one-shot him like Gethzerion did to Luke and it's still not applicable to combat.

No-one else has ever TP'd that many people to death that I know about. It's pretty unprecedented (which is why I think its more likely she TK'd their brains or something) And there's no real indication that TP had any relevance on Talzin possessing him. Nightsister magic doesn't translate directly into Force powers like that.

How is it applicable at all? Unless she's actually going to try to possess Gethzerion I don't think it'll have any bearing on the fight. Is she even in her spirit body here? I doubt it.

And Gethzerion's lightning was powerful enough to create magma. She's not bad herself.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not sure Dooku has any resistance to Nightsister magic. Wheras TK is pretty simple to defend against. And if Talzin was really drawing it out, then she's an utter idiot because Grievous was slaughtering her people to get to her in time. Regardless there's no indication she actually could have one-shot him like Gethzerion did to Luke and it's still not applicable to combat.

No-one else has ever TP'd that many people to death that I know about. It's pretty unprecedented (which is why I think its more likely she TK'd their brains or something) And there's no real indication that TP had any relevance on Talzin possessing him. Nightsister magic doesn't translate directly into Force powers like that.

How is it applicable at all? Unless she's actually going to try to possess Gethzerion I don't think it'll have any bearing on the fight. Is she even in her spirit body here? I doubt it.

And Gethzerion's lightning was powerful enough to create magma. She's not bad herself.

Seeing as she directly says she's going to make it as painful as possible, and the only way he'd make it quick is to withdraw his armies, I think she could kill him. You really think Grievous would retreat upon hearing of Dooku's death?

I'm loving the double standards in saying that Talzin's Magic can't be used to gauge power but Geth's can. Pretty hilarious tbh.

Talzin's is better, still, by a lot.

You think Talzin cares? Didn't you say she could have solo'd Grievous' army?

Geth used quantifiable attacks in a quick, combat applicable manner, instead of Talzin's voodoo bs.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You think Talzin cares? Didn't you say she could have solo'd Grievous' army?

Geth used quantifiable attacks in a quick, combat applicable manner, instead of Talzin's voodoo bs.

No, that she wouldn't be killed by his army. There's a difference, your comprehension skills need work.

They're expressly called spells in text. They're also all witnessed from POV, she could have been gathering energies or drawing from talismans for all we know, the characters just didn't know. So to say Talzins is unquantifiable while wanking Geth is laughable.

I knew that, but you'd said it like it was a combat feat for her so I wanted you to admit it.

Thats just speculation. Sorry that I pay attention to combat techniques instead of rituals for the purpose of combat. Poor form.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I knew that, but you'd said it like it was a combat feat for her so I wanted you to admit it.

Thats just speculation. Sorry that I pay attention to combat techniques instead of rituals for the purpose of combat. Poor form.
It is, because it shows she can use her spirit form at will, in combat.

Lol. Do I really have to find the hundreds of quotes of you wanting Vitiate's dark council feat, or Natheema feat, just to laugh at you? The point is her killing of Dooku was an immensely better display than Geth's attack on Luke. The Stormtroopers feat is good, but Talzin's done better, ie her force illusions, contention with Sidious, effortlessly killing battle droids while maintaining an impenetrable barrier etc.

Lol, ok.

You can look for those quotes of Vitiates dark council or Natheema feat if you want, but you won't find them. Outside of prep time I've never tried to use them. And nope, Geths feat is still better. Talzin needed prep to be able to do that, she can't use it on Geth in this fight so it's irrelevant.

I never said Gethzerion wins, I just questioned your choice of feats. Talzin's Sidious fight probably indicates that she wins. Just not the Dooku ones.