Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

So characters like Bastila Shan, Satele Shan, Nomi Sunrider, even Palpatine and so on are renowned for their Battle Meditation, but I'd be interested in seeing how people rank them in this regard. So if anybody could construct a top ten or even top five list for this it'd be appreciated.

For some other names, there's Odan-Urr, Naga Sadow, Arca Jeth, Meetra Surik, Joruus C'baoth, Skere Kaan, Darth Caedus, Leia Organa Solo, Oppo Rancisis, Ooroo, Worror, etc.

Palpatine.

Well, I figured that. Any longer list, though?

I guess Bastila or Nomi would be the best. Maybe the Dread Masters if you count their bizarre version.

Swtore suggests Bastila was "peerless" in this regard.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, I figured that. Any longer list, though?

Sheev would be number one. The Dread Masters would probably be number two.

Outside of the galaxy-wide stuff which you know I find laughable, is there anything that suggests Palpatine's level of ability with BM?


There was something weird about Caedus' as well, wasn't there? It wasn't exactly battle meditation as I recall.

Sidious, Nomi, and the Dread Masters if they count.

Other than Sheev a few names come to mind.

No particular order.

Bastila
Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
Satele
Nomi
Exile(probably?)
Oppo Rancis
Worro

There are probably more but I can't remember atm. Was Leia a BM user? I heard that mentioned somewhere.

Where it is said Palps has galactic wide BM?

Nowhere.

What I thought...in fact, where is it said he even has it?

I think it may be mentioned in one of the essential guides or source books. All Irremember hearing that from was Wookiee

Originally posted by Zenwolf
What I thought...in fact, where is it said he even has it?

Sidious muses that no-one knows just how much his empire relies on the Force to keep people in line, sense plots and help his armies. People say that that last thing obviously means Sidious is using battle meditation all the time on the entire galaxy. Because of course.

But as to him having it I think at least one quote somewhere says it. Maybe.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious muses that no-one knows just how much his empire relies on the Force to keep people in line, sense plots and help his armies. People say that that last thing obviously means Sidious is using battle meditation all the time on the entire galaxy. Because of course.

But as to him having it I think at least one quote somewhere says it. Maybe.

I know that quote, but that doesn't mean he's using BM. But I don't recall any quote saying Palps has it.

Legacy-era T'ra Saa was really good with it, directing every aspect of a multi-sided Jedi/Alliance/Fel Empire-Imperial Knight/Sith/Sith Trooper fight.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I know that quote, but that doesn't mean he's using BM. But I don't recall any quote saying Palps has it.

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia explicitly states he utilizes battle meditation. We can infer it or a variant of it is used by him to invigorate his troops and drive his fleets per the DESB.

Bastila Shan and the Dread Masters are the greatest.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Bastila Shan and the Dread Masters are the greatest after Palpatine.

Agreed.

How does Palpatine's even remotely compare to Bastila's?

Palpatine was driving the GE's fleetS with his will. That's a heck of a lot better than Bastila being able to influence a single space battle.

Quote me.

And, no it's not. Bastila was the sole reason the Republic hadn't already lost the war.
And, her being able to use her Battle Meditation to overcome an infinite army is insane.

I'll have to provide the quote later and The Forge was not an infinite army.

I can provide you with at least ten quotes saying otherwise.
And did you see the cutscene on how many ships were there?

I can provide you with ten definitions of infinite and I didn't see infinite. The Forge could generate ships indefinitely, which isn't in question, but to pretend Bastila was contending with an infinite number of ships is a lie.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia explicitly states he utilizes battle meditation. We can infer it or a variant of it is used by him to invigorate his troops and drive his fleets per the DESB.

Ah ok yeah the Encyclopedia does say Sidious can use it. Never really had the need to read that, so nice find!

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I can provide you with ten definitions of infinite and I didn't see infinite. The Forge could generate ships indefinitely, which isn't in question, but to pretend Bastila was contending with an infinite number of ships is a lie.
I didn't mean literally infinite. I meant like, a lot.

Far more than anything we ever seen in a single battle.

Some more for lols.









It's not difficult to educate yourselves on Sidious people, you should try it sometime. All these quotes can be found here: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467/blog/emperor-palpatinedarth-sidious-respect-thread/63101/

Palpatine's BM must be worse than I thought then, considering Ewok's could overcome his best forces.

Sidious wasn't even using BM at Endor, he was using a dude named Declann to do that.

Disappointing.

It's not difficult to educate yourselves on Declann people, you should try it sometime.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's not difficult to educate yourselves on Declann people, you should try it sometime.

Conflicting sources, but sure let's go with the c-canon stuff over the G-Canon ROTJ Novel. Seems legit.

Also, I did some short Math about the forces Palpatine was BM-ing at Endor, for funsies.

It's 2.6 million people.

I never denied the quotes existence, merely I wished to see it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I never denied the quotes existence, merely I wished to see it.

Neph always denies it's applicability, because he's afraid that Sidious eclipses the Dread Masters in a singular glorious swoop tbh.

Originally posted by Selenial
Conflicting sources, but sure let's go with the c-canon stuff over the G-Canon ROTJ Novel. Seems legit.

Also, I did some short Math about the forces Palpatine was BM-ing at Endor, for funsies.

It's 2.6 million people.

The RotJ novel says nothing about BM. So yeah, it is legit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The RotJ novel says nothing about BM. So yeah, it is legit.




Lolpls. Try harder.

Originally posted by Selenial
Lolpls. Try harder.

Try against what? The completely irrelevant quote that has nothing to do with battle meditation? No thanks.

Originally posted by Selenial
So I guess neither of you have an inkling of how to bull shit your way out of this quote, cool.

We already knew he does have BM. Try harder yourself.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Try against what? The completely irrelevant quote that has nothing to do with battle meditation? No thanks.

Still not replied to the galaxy wide quote buddy.

You're slacking.

Look again.

Originally posted by Nephthys
We already knew he does have BM. Try harder yourself.

Direct me to any quote that says Palpatine ever led a fleet, because if you can't find any you just conceded.

There are many that say he rarely left his Imperial Palace or his shrines, and that quote itself is talking about how he affects the empire from afar.

So yeh, source or concession.

Originally posted by Selenial
Direct me to any quote that says Palpatine ever led a fleet, because if you can't find any you just conceded.

There are many that say he rarely left his Imperial Palace or his shrines, and that quote itself is talking about how he affects the empire from afar.

So yeh, source or concession.

The quote itself is non-specific of how often he does those things. He can rarely leave his palace and still do those things a few times. Nor does he have personally lead a fleet to do it. Nor does he need to do it all over the galaxy at once. Perhaps he just has long range and can do it for specific single battles. Also who says that's referring to BM? Perhaps he's using a sorcerous ritual ala Sithisis or controlling his commanders minds via telepathy. The fact is that your interpretation of that quote is absolutely ridiculous and frankly should just be laughed out of the thread as the utterly absurd fanwank that it is. How it's actually been widely perpetuated is completely beyond me.

And it says nothing about it needing to be afar. Also isn't there actually a novel coming out about Sidious personally going to quash a rebellion?

Now why don't you tell me why Sidious would need another person to use Battle Meditation in the most important battle of the Empire if he can do it much better himself constantly without needing to meditate? DO this or submit forever because that's how debates work.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The quote itself is non-specific of how often he does those things. He can rarely leave his palace and still do those things a few times. Nor does he have personally lead a fleet to do it. Nor does he need to do it all over the galaxy at once. Perhaps he just has long range and can do it for specific single battles. Also who says that's referring to BM? Perhaps he's using a sorcerous ritual ala Sithisis or controlling his commanders minds via telepathy. The fact is that your interpretation of that quote is absolutely ridiculous and frankly should just be laughed out of the thread as the utterly absurd fanwank that it is. How it's actually been widely perpetuated is completely beyond me.

And it says nothing about it needing to be afar. Also isn't there actually a novel coming out about Sidious personally going to quash a rebellion?

Now why don't you tell me why Sidious would need another person to use Battle Meditation in the most important battle of the Empire if he can do it much better himself constantly without needing to meditate? DO this or submit forever because that's how debates work.

Rofl you're getting desperate, this is frankly hilarious. Yes, let's assume it's a power we've never ever ever ever ever seen performed in the Mythos, let alone by palpatine, when we know for a fact he can use Battle Meditation:


Yes, I'm the one that should be laughed out of the thread

"It says nothing about it needing to be from Afar."

Again, someone's just ragey that the Dread Masters have been outdone by someone who doesn't even specialize in Battle Meditation.

/inserts vague quote

Obviously the best in history.

jk, Selenial is SLAUGHTERHOUSINGFEST this debate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Perhaps he's using a sorcerous ritual ala Sithisis or controlling his commanders minds via telepathy. Perhaps not

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
jk, Selenial is SLAUGHTERHOUSINGFEST this debate.

Originally posted by Selenial
Rofl you're getting desperate, this is frankly hilarious. Yes, let's assume it's a power we've never ever ever ever ever seen performed in the Mythos, let alone by palpatine, when we know for a fact he can use Battle Meditation:

Or better yet, lets just not assume at all. I said perhaps, not that it was the case. The fact is that this is vague in the extreme and if this were applied to someone who isn't Sidious it would be immediately dismissed as many similar quotes have been. Because it is Sidious however, it is instead immediately insisted to be fact and pushed to the highest imaginable extreme. That's the funny part. And I'm hardly desperate, I've had this exact conversation before several times. It's just boring.

Originally posted by Selenial
Yes, I'm the one that should be laughed out of the thread

Not you, this theory. The quote you just posted says nothing about battle meditation. We KNOW that Sidious wasn't using BM in that battle, so the sudden loss of Sidious can't be anything to do with that and purely sparked chaos because, um, he's the Emperor. The dark side diffusing is unrelated. Sidious died in a blast of Force energy that would eventually become a nexus, not to mention that he'd made himself the fulcrum of the darkside in the galaxy. It only makes sense that the darkside would be a bit bonkers around his death.

Originally posted by Selenial
"It says nothing about it needing to be from Afar."

Those sure are two different sentences.

Originally posted by Selenial
Again, someone's just ragey that the Dread Masters have been outdone by someone who doesn't even specialize in Battle Meditation.

If you look you'll see I only suggested the Dread Masters as an afterthought, I gave the top spots to Bastila and Nomi.

No offense Neph, but this does seem like TOR bias in effect. I mean, I can understand the Viti thing to an extent... but Sidious moonwalks all over the non-Vitiate SWTOR characters. You're starting to get as bad as Leg. tbh.

Non Vitiate characters shouldn't include the Dread Masters. Lets be clear about that. We've seen their accolades which range from impressive to "wtf that's harry potter bullshit that can't happen in the sw universe".

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No offense Neph, but this does seem like TOR bias in effect. I mean, I can understand the Viti thing to an extent... but Sidious moonwalks all over the non-Vitiate SWTOR characters. You're starting to get as bad as Leg. tbh.

I'm not even talking about any TOR characters. I said Bastila and Nomi, neither of whom I'm remotely invested in. I'm arguing against this because the idea of constant, galaxy-wide BM is retarded.

I'm kind of shocked at the hypocrisy and double standards you're engaging in tbh. I thought you were all about even looking at Sidious critically in the name of fairness.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Non Vitiate characters shouldn't include the Dread Masters. Lets be clear about that. We've seen their accolades which range from impressive to "wtf that's harry potter bullshit that can't happen in the sw universe".

The fact that SWTOR is gay and you're an epic homo for playing it and liking the era at all is not in question.

But, no, seriously. Someone on the Sidious/Vitiate tier would stomp the Dread Masters.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not even talking about any TOR characters. I said Bastila and Nomi, neither of whom I'm remotely invested in. I'm arguing against this because the idea of constant, galaxy-wide BM is retarded.

Bastila and Nomi are from the Old Republic era, they're just not from SWTOR.

Objection overruled. You're arguing against the idea of Sidious engaging in constant, galaxy-wide BM.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm kind of shocked at the hypocrisy and double standards you're engaging in tbh. I thought you were all about even looking at Sidious critically in the name of fairness.

We look at Sidious critically all the time. I'm the first in line to disregard all his nexus feats, for example. But a spade's a spade and the text is purty clear about this.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Bastila and Nomi are from the Old Republic era, they're just not from SWTOR.

Objection overruled. You're arguing against the idea of Sidious engaging in constant, galaxy-wide BM.

We look at Sidious critically all the time. I'm the first in line to disregard all his nexus feats, for example. But a spade's a spade and the text is purty clear about this.

They're from Kotor and TotJ. TOR is another thing entirely. To me anyway.

I'd argue it's stupid with regards to anyone. As well as that the quote is being taken to a ridiculous degree. You know I do with Legend blowing up quotes to massive degrees. And its hilarious for you to be accusing anyone about bias concerning Sidious.

What a hypocrite. You've argued constantly about quotes that are just as "purty clear" as this. You've tried to undermine Nihilus' quotes non-stop. Or Vitiate's. Or Bane's. Or the Dread Masters. And many others. It isn't the double standards that tick me off, its that you've vilified me for doing this for years. You know that if I was the one presenting these quotes about a TOR character, you'd be saying the exact same arguments I am. Pointing out the exact same holes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They're from Kotor and TotJ. TOR is another thing entirely. To me anyway.

That's all dealing with the Old Republic, tho. That's why I said TOR instead of SWTOR, for the record.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd argue it's stupid with regards to anyone.

Indeed?

Originally posted by Nephthys
As well as that the quote is being taken to a ridiculous degree. You know I do with Legend blowing up quotes to massive degrees.

Your objections with Leg. seem... passive of late.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And its hilarious for you to be accusing anyone about bias concerning Sidious.

How so, my son?

Originally posted by Nephthys
What a hypocrite. You've argued constantly about quotes that are just as "purty clear" as this. You've tried to undermine Nihilus' quotes non-stop. Or Vitiate's. Or Bane's. Or the Dread Masters. And many others. It isn't the double standards that tick me off, its that you've vilified me for doing this for years. You know that if I was the one presenting these quotes about a TOR character, you'd be saying the exact same arguments I am. Pointing out the exact same holes.

Don't you deny that the holes exist, tho? Let's say I'm doing the same thing you do, for the sake of argument. Why is it ok for you to do it but not ok for me to do it?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The fact that SWTOR is gay and you're an epic homo for playing it and liking the era at all is not in question.

But, no, seriously. Someone on the Sidious/Vitiate tier would stomp the Dread Masters.

Doubtful. They have some incredible feats. And SWTOR is so much cooler than the gay movies Disney is coming out with/anything PT era

Originally posted by psmith81992
Doubtful. They have some incredible feats. And SWTOR is so much cooler than the gay movies Disney is coming out with/anything PT era

My dong has incredible feats, ask your wife/mother/all female relatives and known associates.

Nay. Yoda: Dark Rendezvous shits all over your SWTOR.

You barely even played Swtor.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's all dealing with the Old Republic, tho. That's why I said TOR instead of SWTOR, for the record.

Indeed?

Your objections with Leg. seem... passive of late.

How so, my son?

Don't you deny that the holes exist, tho? Let's say I'm doing the same thing you do, for the sake of argument. Why is it ok for you to do it but not ok for me to do it?

Don't care, they're separate for me. I don't consider them as the same era.

Yeah. I think it's stupid that friggin Meetra can *apparently* use BM without having to meditiate, let alone do it over the galaxy. That's ****ing retarded.

You know I backed off on him. And I'm not really willing to get into a massive debate with him anymore. Remember when he said the prologue boss for Nox was Dooku level? Urgh that was painful. I'm not going at him hard anymore.

You're massively biased towards him beyond any dislike I hypothetically hold for him.

For whom? I'm pretty sure I am pointing out the holes already for Sidious' BM. And it's different because you've been so ****ing on my case about double standards and applying things equally that this makes you look like a complete tool.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You barely even played Swtor.

So? Youtube's chronicled all this shit for me, from brave users who withstood the overwhelmingly foul stench of that turdnexus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Don't care, they're separate for me. I don't consider them as the same era.

k

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah. I think it's stupid that friggin Meetra can *apparently* use BM without having to meditiate, let alone do it over the galaxy. That's ****ing retarded.

That seems doubtful, tho.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You know I backed off on him. And I'm not really willing to get into a massive debate with him anymore. Remember when he said the prologue boss for Nox was Dooku level? Urgh that was painful.

k.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're massively biased towards him beyond any dislike I hypothetically hold for him.

That doesn't seem true, tho.

Originally posted by Nephthys
For whom? I'm pretty sure I am pointing out the holes already for Sidious' BM. And it's different because you've been so ****ing on my case about double standards and applying things equally that this makes you look like a complete tool.

So it's ok to use double standards and apply things unequally if I stop lecturing you about it?

Palpy. Galaxy wide battle meditation ftw.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
So it's ok to use double standards and apply things unequally if I stop lecturing you about it?

No, because if you were doing the same thing I am then we'd be using the same standards, wouldn't we?

Originally posted by The Merchant
Palpy. Galaxy wide battle meditation ftw.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, because if you were doing the same thing I am then we'd be using the same standards, wouldn't we?

No. The double standard doesn't become a single standard if we both use double standards.

LOL that's a good one.

Originally posted by psmith81992
LOL that's a good one.

Indeed it is. Best book in the EU.

One of the best maybe, but your joke was really good.

Originally posted by psmith81992
One of the best maybe, but your joke was really good.

How's it a joke if you more or less agree with it? You mention all the time how SWTOR sucks... if YR is one of the best books in the EU at the very least, how isn't it better? mmm

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No. The double standard doesn't become a single standard if we both use double standards. i agree. By my math it would be a quadruple standard

Originally posted by The_Tempest
How's it a joke if you more or less agree with it? You mention all the time how SWTOR sucks... if YR is one of the best books in the EU at the very least, how isn't it better? mmm

The fact that Yoda doing anything in DR that trumps the Dread Masters, is the joke.

Since when does BM being cut off lead to undirected darkside energy?

Well, at least I did generate a lot of discussion. lol

Originally posted by psmith81992
The fact that Yoda doing anything in DR that trumps the Dread Masters, is the joke.

...when did we stop talking about quality and start talking about feats? Are you drunk?

The most common cards that are played in debates now are "bias" and "double-standard" call-outs. lmao

I actually believe Thrawn says Sidious was BMing the fleet at Endor, so when he died, they got incompetant as ****.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I actually believe Thrawn says Sidious was BMing the fleet at Endor, so when he died, they got incompetant as ****.

Thrawn was wrong.

Later material revealed there was a Grand Admiral battle meditating at Endor, who went up with the DS2.


Like Neph said on page 2, it was Declann.

I mean, think about it, would Sidious allow him to be distracted doing multiple things at once during such a crucial showdown?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia explicitly states he utilizes battle meditation. We can infer it or a variant of it is used by him to invigorate his troops and drive his fleets per the DESB.
Yes:

Ancient skilled users of the technique included Jedi Master Arca Jeth, Nomi Sunrider, Bastila Shan, and Odan-Urr. Sith battle meditation was comparatively rare discipline, though Darth Sidious, Lumiya, and Darth Caedus proved capable of it.

Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

But, not a single source implies that Palpatine is peerless in the use of this power.

No that's just the prevalent assumption.

He's peerless based on showings, not direct source statements.

I'll mention T'ra Saa again, who's showing with Battle Meditation allowed a near-complete evacuation of a besieged location against a superior force to get out with it's forces mostly intact. It had been intended to be a trap to wipe out the Galactic Alliance Core Fleet and the Jedi and a good portion of the Fel Empire's forces in one go, but due to her powers they made it free.

That really still doesn't match up to even Bastila's feat, let alone Palpatine's.

oops, wrong thread.

Originally posted by Q99
Later material revealed there was a Grand Admiral battle meditating at Endor, who went up with the DS2.


Like Neph said on page 2, it was Declann.

I mean, think about it, would Sidious allow him to be distracted doing multiple things at once during such a crucial showdown?

Yet the ROTJ novel states that it was the Emperor's death that threw the dark side and, consequently, imperial forces into disarray. Declann is irrelevant.