Kas'im vs. HoT vs. Mara Jade (sabers only fight)

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Stigma
Neutral setting.

Who wins?

Nephthys
Hero imo.

Angelalex242
What defines a 'neutral setting'?

Because 'flat, featureless plane' is actually disadvantageous to Mara. It's not 'neutral.'

Given a reasonable location, however, Mara can assassinate Hero and move on.

Nephthys
I doubt it, the Hero has beaten an invisible Sith while dodging a space-laser. She couldn't sense him at the time either iirc.

By the end of the game though the Hero can sense things occurring across the galaxy.

Angelalex242
A random Sith who can turn invisible is one thing. The one woman in existence who's been trained by Sidious and is married to GM Luke...is something else again. I imagine Mara's stealth is soundly superior to random Sith dude.

Nephthys
While dodging a space-laser. Also neither of those things you mentioned indicated why she could assassinate the Hero. She has great Force senses.

Nephthys
Also 'flat, featureless plane' is neutral. Just because it doesn't play to Mara's strengths doesn't make it unfair.

It's supposed to be a pure lightsaber fight. She shouldn't be allowed to use cloaking.

Angelalex242
Well, Mara doesn't USE just lightsabers. She's got vibroblades, crush gauntlets, blasters and several other toys jedi in general just don't carry.

And she's got HTH.

Trocity
Mara is actually a skilled duelist, she doesn't have to rely on her assassin tricks to be able to kill people.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Well, Mara doesn't USE just lightsabers. She's got vibroblades, crush gauntlets, blasters and several other toys jedi in general just don't carry.

And she's got HTH.

So what you're saying is that she loses.

Angelalex242
Not to kill everyone, no. Hero is sufficiently skilled, however, that it'll probably take assassin tricks to get rid of her.

...Then again...

Mara can fight off Lumiya.

And as much as Kas'im's a non factor, Mara might be able to use him to set up an assassination move. (Like a D&D Rogue setting up flanking...)

FreshestSlice
Hero of Tython.

Trocity
I'm siding HoT, too.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Not to kill everyone, no. Hero is sufficiently skilled, however, that it'll probably take assassin tricks to get rid of her.

...Then again...

Mara can fight off Lumiya.

And as much as Kas'im's a non factor, Mara might be able to use him to set up an assassination move. (Like a D&D Rogue setting up flanking...)

Lumiya couldn't even beat Nelani in a fight and got her ass kicked by Tresina Lobi.

carthage
Not sure.

Kas'im dies any moment he tries to engage either.

Mara's feat against Caedus impresses me more than anything from Hero who has largely fought and only killed nobodies in comparison.

NewGuy01
What's the difference between hot and Mara Jade again?

Angelalex242
Mara Jade IS HOT...

Oh, wait, you meant Hero.

Mara Jade Skywalker is older and more experienced, mostly. And has been trained by the most powerful Sith AND the most powerful Jedi (that she married) that ever lived.

Nephthys
I thought Mara Jade was hot?

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Mara Jade IS HOT...

Oh, wait, you meant Hero.

Mara Jade Skywalker is older and more experienced, mostly. And has been trained by the most powerful Sith AND the most powerful Jedi (that she married) that ever lived.
Besides marriage, you could say the exact same thing about the HoT and Bane. Everyone's always trained by the best. Being trained by someone super powerful also doesn't make you any more qualified to win.

Angelalex242
Sure, but the Force gets stronger over time. Sidious and Luke are far superior to the trainers of the other two.

And experience counts for a lot. Mara at 57 just plain has more years under her belt.

Nephthys
Who trained them is less important than who received it. The Hero is an obvious prodigy miles beyond Mara.

Scourge had over 300 years of experience. :T

Angelalex242
Anakin's a prodigy too. Didn't work out too well for him.

And Experience, again, counts for a lot. More years is more years.

Nephthys
Anakin would beat Mara.

Scourge has 300 years on the Hero. Didn't work out too well for him. Pointedly, Scourge was already a master of 3 saber forms after just 30 years. wink

Stigma
I feel jaded that noone's vouching for Kas'im,.

Nephthys
Also, that Caedus fight doesn't suggest much about Mara's saber abilities. By the time they get to crossing blades he's massively injured, weakening fast and by his own admission is pretty much just flailing.

Stigma
Originally posted by Angelalex242

And Experience, again, counts for a lot. More years is more years.
Not in Star Wars, it doesn't.

Angelalex242
Oh, but it does.

With Luke, for example, the father you get along the timeline, the stronger he gets. There's no point in his life where he was better last year then he is this year.

Mara's the same way. She gets better every year that goes by. By Sacrifice, she's at her peak.

And yes, Caedus was injured when Mara finally crossed blades with him. The difference is, Mara caused all those injuries herself. Full credit for having sense enough to weaken your badass opponent before going head to head.

Also, Anakin only wins on those flat, featureless planes. Put Anakin vs. Mara on, say, Mustafar...and the poor boy's going to Obi Wanned all over again.

Nephthys
Yeah, experience is really important. But clearly it isn't the be all.

Mara caused all that in her ambush and by dropping a tunnel on him, not with her saber skills. Up against HoT in a duel, it's pretty irrelevant.

Angelalex242
Yeaaah, cause Ambush is what she DOES. She's got rogue levels. She likes using them.

EmperorSidious2
Mara jade

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Sure, but the Force gets stronger over time.
Lolwut?

Angelalex242
In general, every era of Force user that goes by seems to be stronger, in general, then the last. On both sides.

While this is demonstrated most obviously during Bane's Rule of 2, it's also true in general.

Nephthys
Yeah, no.

FreshestSlice
Got to say, I've never heard that one before. NJO characters are better because the Force is stronger, lulz.

Angelalex242
It's based on the idea that if life creates the Force (see, Yoda, ESB, and if anyone knows what he's talking about, it's Yoda...)...there's more living beings alive now then there was in say, the TOR Era.

Consider the exponential population growth in real life, now multiply it by all the planets there are, and you get an idea of why the Force itself might be growing stronger over time.

Nephthys
Except Force use is dictated by midichlorians, not how much force energy there is in the galaxy.

Also with the amount of wars in the galaxy the population of the galaxy is in constant flux.

ares834
Originally posted by Angelalex242
there's more living beings alive now then there was in say, the TOR Era.

Eh? Based on?

Angelalex242
Exponential population growth as seen on Planet Earth in real life.

Wars happen in real life too. But there's still more people on Earth today then there was in 1000 AD, despite all the wars.

FreshestSlice
Lulz. What Neph said.

SunRazer
Kas'im's easily the worst. The Knight probably has greater raw talent with a blade but Mara's more unorthodox a fighter. Could go either way.

carthage
thumb up

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Anakin's a prodigy too. Didn't work out too well for him.

And Experience, again, counts for a lot. More years is more years.

Well said because more experience more time developing your lightsaber combat and force abilities.

Raptor22
Originally posted by Angelalex242
It's based on the idea that if life creates the Force (see, Yoda, ESB, and if anyone knows what he's talking about, it's Yoda...)...there's more living beings alive now then there was in say, the TOR Era.

Consider the exponential population growth in real life, now multiply it by all the planets there are, and you get an idea of why the Force itself might be growing stronger over time. by that logic then luke and all the other jedi would be far weaker at the end of the vong war then they were at the beginning. The same would apply to yoda and the rest at the end of the clone wars. Unless u think that the population stayed the same or somehow grew during the wars, even though entire planets were destroyed instantly and basically every sector was ravaged from wild space to the deep core.

AncientPower
Mara is a far better trained, experienced and well-rounded fighter than either of them. She will play them against each other long enough that they are both seriously injured. She can easily feign a KO and sit in a healing trance as they beat the crud out of each other. Her versatility in a fight is very impressive. Considering she could spy on Darth Vader for months without him having a clue and become invisible to Caedus' Force Sense and Force Bond whilst he is looking for her puts her stealth beyond anyone else in the mythos.

S_W_LeGenD
Hero of Tython

FreshestSlice
Kas'im isn't going to injure the HoT in a duel.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Mara is a far better trained, experienced and well-rounded fighter than either of them. She will play them against each other long enough that they are both seriously injured. She can easily feign a KO and sit in a healing trance as they beat the crud out of each other. Her versatility in a fight is very impressive. Considering she could spy on Darth Vader for months without him having a clue and become invisible to Caedus' Force Sense and Force Bond whilst he is looking for her puts her stealth beyond anyone else in the mythos.
Mara isn't far better trained, experienced, and well-rounded fighter then Kas'im and Hero of Tython.

An argument can be made that Kas'im lacks in experience in comparison to both Mara Jade Skywalker and Hero of Tython, but Hero of Tython is the most well-rounded combatant in this contest.

Hero of Tython have fought in countless battles, recognized as a legendary lightsaber combatant and the greatest warrior of his era (an era which tested the Jedi Order like none other in earlier history), and defeated many impressive foes. Most impressive resume.

AncientPower
Your knowledge regarding Mara Jade is painfully lacking. She is one of the most honed pure combatants in an era where the biggest wars ever were fought against the most powerful characters in the Mythos.

But I know that doesn't matter because she isn't TOR era.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Your knowledge regarding Mara Jade is painfully lacking. She is one of the most honed pure combatants in an era where the biggest wars ever were fought against the most powerful characters in the Mythos.

But I know that doesn't matter because she isn't TOR era.
TOR era is irrelevant.

Also, you are deciding now that which wars were biggest and toughest for the Jedi Order? Lets not get into this because some TOR era wars all but destroyed the Jedi Order without use of Execute Order 66 surprise tactics.

I do not underestimate Mara's combat ability but Hero of Tython have too much going for him. And I am assuming a neutral setting for this contest in which Mara's batman tactics aren't going to facilitate her. In addition, Hero of Tython is unlikely to take his opponents for granted, he have such vast combat experience.

Trocity
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
TOR era is irrelevant.

thumb up

I completely agree with this statement.

FreshestSlice
laughing out loud

NewGuy01
I think we should just all agree that Mara is HoT, and Kas'im is NoT.

SunRazer
lol

Nephthys
Originally posted by AncientPower
Mara is a far better trained, experienced and well-rounded fighter than either of them. She will play them against each other long enough that they are both seriously injured. She can easily feign a KO and sit in a healing trance as they beat the crud out of each other. Her versatility in a fight is very impressive. Considering she could spy on Darth Vader for months without him having a clue and become invisible to Caedus' Force Sense and Force Bond whilst he is looking for her puts her stealth beyond anyone else in the mythos.

Scourge is also far better trained and experienced that any of them yet the Hero still kicked his ass outside of her prime after fighting through Vitiate's fortress. He's also likely overall stronger than Mara given his tremendous untapped potential as of Revan coupled with his multiple amps. Given the levels the Hero reaches in a short period of time, it's obvious she's a more naturally skilled prodigy compared to Mara and more powerful, so it's no stretch that she'd overcome Mara's experience like she did Scourge's. Besides which is that the Hero likely has better dueling experience than her in fact. She's fought scores to hundreds of Sith.

How can you "easily" feign a KO in a lightsaber fight? Getting hit by a lightsaber isn't something you just tank and easily recover from. I also doubt either of these guys is stupid enough to assume she's down and leave her unmolested. Also, sabers only fight.

Stealth isn't relevant to a sabers only fight.

Angelalex242
They're doing the moral equivalent of 'put Batman in the bright lights of a football stadium on the 50 yard line and see how well he does.'

Nephthys
Batman can beat up hundreds of ninja's at once for several days in a straight brawl, that's hardly an unfair situation to put him in.

Selenial
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
TOR era is irrelevant.

Why can't I sig quote tags. rip

Emperordmb
@EmperorSidious2 "Dress On" is the sock of Intrepid, an old troll on KMC that got banned for spamming porn. He's not worth replying to since his new account is just going to be deleted within the day.

Arhael
Mara

Stigma
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
TOR era is irrelevant.
I concur thumb up



BTW Why no-one is vouching for Kas'im is perplexing.

Bane said Kas'im was the greatest saber master in the galaxy, that must count for something.

carthage
Because either of his competition would stomp him with ease.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.