Shaak Ti vs. Jaden Korr vs Kas'im

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carthage
Low tier duelist fight

*Shaak Ti as of TFU

*No nexus feats for Kas'im

AncientPower
Shaak Ti stomps.

Kosmos Supreme
none of them are low-tier. that being said Jaden Korr

AncientPower
Jaden Korr has nothing on Shaak Ti.

Kosmos Supreme
He defeated Ragnos's spirit.

AncientPower
Yes his spirit, nothing anywhere close to his actual power. Shaak Ti on the other hand has man-handled Starkiller.

MythLord
I think Ti wins. I doubt she'd stomp either Jaden or Kas'im, but she'd likely win.

SunRazer
If Jaden is actually more skilled than Kyle then he wins this.

EmperorSidious2
Shaka ti

KingD19
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes his spirit, nothing anywhere close to his actual power. Shaak Ti on the other hand has man-handled Starkiller.

But she lost to Starkiller. Jaden beat Ragnos.

Emperordmb
Kas'im wins.

WildBantha88
Originally posted by KingD19
But she lost to Starkiller. Jaden beat Ragnos. She kicked his ass in a lightsaber duel

carthage
Probably Shaak Ti

Ursumeles
Bump smile

Fated Xtasy
****!

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
****!
Huh?

MythLord
Shaak or Jaden.

Emperordmb
Kas'im. He has the Force defenses and neither measures up as a duelist.

Deronn_solo
Jaden >= Shaak >> Kas'im.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes his spirit, nothing anywhere close to his actual power. Shaak Ti on the other hand has man-handled Starkiller.

Lmao. "Manhandling"

She landed a force push on him while he was crossing a gap in the sarlaac's maw before utlizing a blast of kinetite which did literally no visible damage to him. All on a lightside nexus that stifled the Darkside per the novel and presumably enhanced the Light after Galen had fought through an army of force sensitives and rancors.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rTnesolJSDg/VIxBkfCjPzI/AAAAAAAGcPU/CBY5KMUchUw/s1600/p1_41%2Bcopy.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yzPkGK1S3lY/VIxBlq6yLaI/AAAAAAAGcPY/IBSrHgTTBLc/s1600/p1_42%2Bcopy.jpg

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by WildBantha88
She kicked his ass in a lightsaber duel

She pressed him on a lightside nexus that hindered him and presumably amped her after he had fought through an army of force sensitives and rancors and whilst utilizing an environmental advantage ( the mega sarlaac ) when Galen began to do the same they fought evenly causing Shaak to attempt a desperate move as she knew he would outlast her due to having greater force reserves.

Galen's reflexes allowed him to avoid a fatal blow and Shaak Ti ultimately an hero'd on Galen's own blade.

UCanShootMyNova
That being said Shaak should win this. She's confirmed to be more powerful then both Rahm and Paratus and landing a force push on Galen demonstrates that she's not outclassed by him as a Force user which is impressive in and of itself.

Deronn_solo
Why are you replying to year old comments?

Galen's dick is so far down your throat, I'm surprised you can breath.

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
She pressed him on a lightside nexus that hindered him and presumably amped her after he had fought through an army of force sensitives and rancors and whilst utilizing an environmental advantage ( the mega sarlaac ) when Galen began to do the same they fought evenly causing Shaak to attempt a desperate move as she knew he would outlast her due to having greater force reserves.

Galen's reflexes allowed him to avoid a fatal blow and Shaak Ti ultimately an hero'd on Galen's own blade.

Way to reply to a two year old comment, Syn.

NewGuy01
Lol

UCanShootMyNova
This was bumped for some reason... Thought it was a new thread.

Selenial
I love how people cherry pick from each source to try and wank a character.

"She did this in the comic, but not the novel, but this ones right because it's a good endurance feat for Galen. The comic says the Dark Side is stronger on Felucia, but **** the comic, here you need to listen to the novel, because that makes Galen sound better."

Some top tier infallible debating you have there, Syn.

MythLord
Originally posted by Selenial
I love how people cherry pick from each source to try and wank a character.

"She did this in the comic, but not the novel, but this ones right because it's a good endurance feat for Galen. The comic says the Dark Side is stronger on Felucia, but **** the comic, here you need to listen to the novel, because that makes Galen sound better."

Some top tier infallible debating you have there, Syn.

thumb up laughing out loud

Shaak > Felucia!Galen. Who is in turn > Kas'im.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Selenial
I love how people cherry pick from each source to try and wank a character.

"She did this in the comic, but not the novel, but this ones right because it's a good endurance feat for Galen. The comic says the Dark Side is stronger on Felucia, but **** the comic, here you need to listen to the novel, because that makes Galen sound better."

Some top tier infallible debating you have there, Syn.

Oh but Syn only acknowledges the novel, nothing else, when someone argues against Galen (except when he argues for Galen, then anything goes).

Syn's arbitrary canon policy > actual canon.

chingchangwalla
Shaak wins

Fated Xtasy
Ngl. I love the fact that Kas'im is considered a non factor rn.

Reminds me of the Golden Age of the Anti-Bane Movement stick out tongue

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Oh but Syn only acknowledges the novel, nothing else, when someone argues against Galen (except when he argues for Galen, then anything goes).

Syn's arbitrary canon policy > actual canon.

He's said that he considers the novelization's interpretation of the fight a better suited interpretation of the fight in-game because it aligns better with it, and that all else - in this case the comic - is supplementary.

cs_zoltan
The comic isn't supplementary to the novel, they were on the same canon tier. And he also disregarded the game before, even tho that's the primary source and the novel/comic are its adaptation.

Just face it, Syn cherry picks sources to paint Galen in the best light possible.

Ursumeles
thumb up

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
The comic isn't supplementary to the novel, they were on the same canon tier. And he also disregarded the game before, even tho that's the primary source and the novel/comic are its adaptation.

Just face it, Syn cherry picks sources to paint Galen in the best light possible.

I'm not defending Syn. Just repeating what he said awhile back is all. Besides, everyone Cherry picks. Some people just aren't so blatant about it.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Besides, everyone Cherry picks. Some people just aren't so blatant about it.
thumb up

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Selenial
I love how people cherry pick from each source to try and wank a character.

"She did this in the comic, but not the novel, but this ones right because it's a good endurance feat for Galen. The comic says the Dark Side is stronger on Felucia, but **** the comic, here you need to listen to the novel, because that makes Galen sound better."

Some top tier infallible debating you have there, Syn.

The comic doesn't contradict the novel. Felicia can still be a world strong with he Darkside ( and the Lght ) being a powerful planetary nexus but at the time having that Darkness stifled while the Light was enhanced.

The only contradiction here is ones that your artificially creating in your head.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by MythLord
thumb up laughing out loud

Shaak > Felucia!Galen. Who is in turn > Kas'im.

How do you figure?

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Just repeating what he said awhile back is all. Besides, everyone Cherry picks. Some people just aren't so blatant about it.
Tru.
But Syn got #exposed.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
The comic isn't supplementary to the novel, they were on the same canon tier. And he also disregarded the game before, even tho that's the primary source and the novel/comic are its adaptation.

Just face it, Syn cherry picks sources to paint Galen in the best light possible.

The novel comes beforehand all else as it's a descriptive source that doesn't contradict source. That will always come before visual or contradictory mediums for me. I take the game and comic where events align.

UCanShootMyNova

Emperordmb
You really don't need to cherry pick though. In the game, Galen just blatantly beats her, despite Shaak having help from the Sarlaac tentacles and native Felucians. In the book (which is what people use to claim Shaak's dueling superiority), she ends the fight by throwing herself on his blade in a desperate attempt to get through his defenses, and while he only survived because of his Force usage, had he not used the force that still would've been a stalemate, not a victory for Shaak. In the comic, which is what people use to wank Shaak's Force abilities, Galen seriously wounds her with an omnidirectional telekinetic attack he used while weakened.

cs_zoltan
Lmao. Everything you just said is plain retarded.

Emperordmb
I'd more question the logical coherence of the people who argue Shaak Ti matches or surpasses Galen in every field and is overall better than him, and that Shaak Ti is some great cunning tactical genius... yet Shaak Ti somehow lost to this inferior opponent despite being so cunning, intimately familiar with her environment, and having aid from the native life, in a fight that either ended with Galen just flat out beating her, her throwing herself on Galen's blade despite being supposedly significantly better than him as a duelist, or getting seriously wounded by an omnidirectional Force attack from a weakened Galen despite being supposedly capable of matching him as a Force wielder.

Either Shaak Ti is the shittiest tactician in the history of Star Wars, or she's just not a better combatant than Felucia Galen.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up

MythLord
Shaak vs Galen wouldn't have ended in a stalemate if Galen hadn't used the Force. The novel makes it plainly clear that Shaak gets stabbed after she fails to skewer Galen Marek's head. If she had decapitated him, he wouldn't have outstretched his hand via reflex and stabbed her.
Throughout the rest of the fight, she had him in desperate retreat, with Marek at best fighting evenly and at worst being driven back considerably.

So Galen's victory was ultimately through the Force with a move he himself deemed as lucky.

Ursumeles
Kas'im or Jaden smile

Emperordmb
Originally posted by MythLord
Shaak vs Galen wouldn't have ended in a stalemate if Galen hadn't used the Force. The novel makes it plainly clear that Shaak gets stabbed after she fails to skewer Galen Marek's head. If she had decapitated him, he wouldn't have outstretched his hand via reflex and stabbed her.
Throughout the rest of the fight, she had him in desperate retreat, with Marek at best fighting evenly and at worst being driven back considerably.

So Galen's victory was ultimately through the Force with a move he himself deemed as lucky.
Oh dear God, not this shit again...

"The third would have skewered his right eye had he not held her back at the last minute with a desperate telekinetic block that stopped her lightsaber barely a millimeter from his skin. He could feel his eyelashes and eyebrows burning. The right side of his sight was entirely blue.

She gasped and staggered backward. Her lightsaber and her gaze dropped. A full half meter of red blade emerged from her stomach, then the rest came free with a hiss.

He backed away, shocked by how close he had come to death and how lucky he had been to defeat her. He had raised his lightsaber by reflex. She had, in the desperation of her final assault, practically thrown herself on the blade. Perhaps she had meant for the two of them to defeat each other at the same time."

1. Galen would not have wondered if she intended a mutual destruction outcome if he had not raised his blade prior to telekinetically blocking Shaak's strike at his face, and if his blade wouldn't have pierced her if her attack succeeded.

2. Shaak Ti threw herself at Galen in the desperation of her final assault and ended up pretty much completely impaled on his blade to the extent that even after staggering backwards, half of the blade's length was still in her body. Galen's Telekinetic block would not have increased Shaak Ti's forward momentum in that assault, and if anything would've actually reduced it. And the notion that Shaak was standing well over a meter away from Galen when she tried to impale his face, then after failing to impale his face threw herself a meter forwards without attempting another attack is rather absurd.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'd more question the logical coherence of the people who argue Shaak Ti matches or surpasses Galen in every field and is overall better than him, and that Shaak Ti is some great cunning tactical genius... yet Shaak Ti somehow lost to this inferior opponent despite being so cunning, intimately familiar with her environment, and having aid from the native life, in a fight that either ended with Galen just flat out beating her, her throwing herself on Galen's blade despite being supposedly significantly better than him as a duelist, or getting seriously wounded by an omnidirectional Force attack from a weakened Galen despite being supposedly capable of matching him as a Force wielder.

Either Shaak Ti is the shittiest tactician in the history of Star Wars, or she's just not a better combatant than Felucia Galen.

Or you are f-ucking retarded. There's this thing called PIS, idk if you heared of it. Inferior fighters constantly win, stalemate, or survive fights they have no business to. Get with the program. Now let's go through your retarded analysis of the 3 depiction of the fight.

1. The game

Considering it's 100% gameplay, 0 cutscenes I don't know where the f-uck you get that Galen blatantly beats her. Maybe if you are playing on easy mode, because your mental capacity clearly can't carry you through harder difficulties, I guess you could think Galen dominated her. The point is there's no f-ucking evidence for it in the game.

2. The novel

So Shaak overextended, what of it? Dooku overextended against Vos too, despite being an almost perfect duelist and a clear superior to Vos. Shaak too was still clearly superior to Galen to the point that he acknowledges that he's lucky to be alive.

3. The comic

I kinda find it funny how you can so rigorously go through the context of the novel fight to shit on Shaak and then blatantly ignore the context of the comic to yet again shit on Shaak.

Yes Shaak was injured by an omnidirectional push from Galen, but the context doesn't end there. How about the fact that Shaak thought the fight was over and lowered her defenses? No I guess that didn't occure to you.

And your ridiculous claim that Galen was weakend? I just love how you try to have your cake and eat it too. In the comic Felucia was described as a DARK SIDE NEXUS. The way I don't bring the novels description of Felucia into the novel, how about you don't f-ucking bring the novel's into the comic? Thank you.

And overall throughout all 3 sources you try to imply that Shaak solely benefit from the aid of the Saarlac and the Felucians yet forget how it would tax her reserves to constantly use beast controll / battle meditation on them.

Lastly, I for one never claimed Shaak is superior to Galen in every way. There's no proof that she's more powerful for example. But clearly she's close enough to contend.

Deronn_solo
Zoltan's salt is so phucking tangible right now.

MythLord
Oh dear God, not this sh!t again...

Galen raised his blade by reflex, which impaled her. But he did so as she was attacking, so obviously she didn't just think of jumping right onto Marek's blade nor did she intend mutual defeat. That's just Marek's speculation, from which you conveniently omitted the part he muses that it was pure luck that he had managed to do even that.



It wouldn't really reduce it since he only kept her lightsaber blade at bay. Her body would still be flinging forwards. Regardless, I didn't bring momentum in the equation here.



Staggering back can also mean being taken a back, or shocked by something which I'd imagine happened in this case since she just realized she had been stabbed.

Besides, that isn't the point I'm making. If Galen had been decapitated, raising his blade reflexively to stab Shaak couldn't have happened. He would've been decapitated if he hadn't got a lucky Force Push in.

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Kas'im or Jaden smile

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Zoltan's salt is so phucking tangible right now.

Yes. Cherry picking quotes, disregarding context, flat out lies, and on top of it all acting like he's actually the reasonable here tends to do that.

Selenial
Originally posted by Emperordmb
You really don't need to cherry pick though. In the game, Galen just blatantly beats her, despite Shaak having help from the Sarlaac tentacles and native Felucians.

Blatantly? That's a lie, they're rather even in the game, each gaining ground and loosing it, until he electrocutes the Sarlacc into killing Shaak Ti. That is not a display of superiority in force or sabers, but a distinctly opposite ideology in their usage of the environment.



Incorrect again. She would stab him in the eye, he would stab her in the stomach. Given she is on friendly territory, can enter healing trances, and has survived direct shots to the stomach (where she was stabbed) in the past, her wound was evidently one she could survive. Let me know if Galen's ever survived being stabbed through the brain, though.



> says is using the comic
> says weakened
> comic references Dark Side's strength on Felucia.

10/10, failed to mention she wasn't facing him and was only hit due to underestimating his rage.

I get it honey, you're trying all over again to argue that Kas'im wouldn't get slaughtered by an entirely superior Jedi. No need to take it out on Zoltan just because no one agrees with your an heroic logic smile

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by MythLord
Shaak vs Galen wouldn't have ended in a stalemate if Galen hadn't used the Force. The novel makes it plainly clear that Shaak gets stabbed after she fails to skewer Galen Marek's head. If she had decapitated him, he wouldn't have outstretched his hand via reflex and stabbed her.
Throughout the rest of the fight, she had him in desperate retreat, with Marek at best fighting evenly and at worst being driven back considerably.

So Galen's victory was ultimately through the Force with a move he himself deemed as lucky.

So first off we have the fight starting off with Shaak in a superior position having a height advantage over Galen which allows her to generate a greater amount of kinetic force behind her blows then normal putting Galen off balance at the beginning of the fight.

"She smiled in mockery. "Are you prepared to meet your fate?" Then her lightsaber was lit and she was spinning through the air toward him, striking downward as she fell.

The apprentice simultaneously backflipped and blocked her opening blow. The force of it surprised him, and the recoil threw him backward. His hood caught on one of the sarlacc's teeth, and he tore it impatiently away before the snag could interfere with his defense. Shaak Ti's lightsaber was a jagged blue blur between them. He blocked her as best he could until he had his balance again." - The Force Unleashed.

He attempts to put distance between himself and Shaak but because he does not the place their fighting in like Shaak does he ends up plunging down into the maw of the sarlaac yet again allowing Shaak to gain the high ground.

"Then he jumped. Over her he spun and fell down two layers of teeth toward the mouth of the sarlacc. From there he jumped up again, angling away from her to avoid giving the Jedi the advantage of height, but she was there ahead of him, driving him back down with a series of blows so rapid he barely caught them all." - The Force Unleashed.

Note that at this time he's trying to get back to the edge of the sarlaac pit and out of its maw so meeting the strikes of a person with a high ground advantage as he's ascending is going to be especially hard to counter.

_____

Using a bolt of Sith lightning on the sarlaac Galen is able to regain even ground with Shaak.

"He summoned a bolt of Sith lightning and sent it down, into the flesh of the sarlacc. The beast roared and shook, giving him the opening he needed. Shaak Ti's right foot slipped, forcing her to flip elegantly out of reach of his blade. He leapt after her, swinging as he came." - The Force Unleashed.

As you can probably imagine the fight progresses much more evenly now that Shaak's advantages have been used up.

"The fight progressed around the sarlacc's center rings, blow and counterblow accompanied by the roaring of the beast. The apprentice cut off teeth and threw the fragments at his adversary's head. In return she took tighter control of the beast's distributed intelligence and sent its food-seeking tentacles flailing for him. He repulsed them and fought on.

Down they drove each other, closer and closer to the very lip of the creature's enormous mouth.

They then have an exchange which reveals why Shaak attempted her suicidal move. She knew she was running out of energy faster then Galen.

"You can't keep this up forever," he taunted Shaak Ti as they dueled.

"Neither can you," she said. "You are wasting your strength too quickly."

"The dark side is inexhaustible."

"Your strength is prodigious," she admitted, "but that is your doing." - The Force Unleashed.

Galen then proceeds to remove one of Shaak's lekku indicating the shift in the fight.

"He slashed at her own feet as they spun by overhead and sent one of her ribbons twirling down into the sarlacc's gaping mouth. "Spare me the philosophy lesson, Jedi," he snarled. "I'm only here for your blood." - The Force Unleashed.

This is when Shaak attempts to take Galen down with her in moves that find their mark but ultimately fail. And luck isn't a thing. If Galen hadn't had the honed reflexes he did all the luck in the world wouldn't have saved him. I'm not claiming he blocked the blow out of skill as that was clearly not the case but to claim that Galen only managed to do so because of convenience is lazy and biased.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Or you are f-ucking retarded. There's this thing called PIS, idk if you heared of it. Inferior fighters constantly beat, stalemate, or survive fights they have no business to. Get with the program. Now let's go through your retarded analysis of the 3 depiction of the fight.
Calm your **** man. But alright, let's look at that shit.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
1. The game

Considering it's 100% gameplay, 0 cutscenes I don't know where the f-uck you get that Galen blatantly beats her. Maybe if you are playing on easy mode, because your mental capacity clearly can't carry you through harder difficulties, I guess you could think Galen dominated her. The point is there's no f-ucking evidence for it in the game.
Damn more salt.

I was referring to the quicktime event where he blatantly drives her back in lightsaber combat and dominates her with the Force.

But if you don't count the quicktime events and only the cutscenes fair enough, however the fight still ends with Galen walking towards a Shaak Ti lying on the ground who then an heroed, so even without the gameplay or quicktime events it's pretty clear Shaak Ti ended that fight in a disadvantageous position and wasn't confident in her ability to best Galen.

But even if we were to disregard that instance there's still two more to pull from.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
2. The novel

So Shaak overextended, what of it? Dooku overextended against Vos too, despite being an almost perfect duelist and a clear superior to Voc. Shaak too was still clearly superior to Galen to the point that he acknowledges that he's lucky to be alive.
Dooku leaving an opening that Vos uses to disarm him is him overextending, Shaak Ti throwing herself into someone's blade is not simply overextending, it is a significantly more egregious error than that.

He acknowledges he's lucky to be alive, but at the same time he acknowledges that if her attack had succeeded in skewering his face, she would've still died. And it's also stated that Shaak Ti's final attack against Galen was desperate. I'm not saying that Galen is a superior duelist than Shaak, but the notion that she's a significantly better duelist than Galen is rather laughable.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
3. The comic

I kinda find it funny how you can so rigorously go through the context of the novel fight to shit on Shaak and then blatantly ignore the context of the comic to yet again shit on Shaak.

Yes Shaak was injured by an omnidirectional push from Galen, but the context doesn't end there. How about the fact that Shaak thought the fight was over and lowered her defenses? No I guess that didn't occure to you.
She sensed some shit happening before Galen unleashed the repulse, she was facing the attack with her hands outstretched towards it, and she was not completely flung away by it, so clearly she sensed it coming, and was defending herself against it.

Unless you want to argue that when Shaak Ti senses something going on in a fight before it happens and actively extends her hands towards her opponent she isn't making use of her force defenses.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
And your ridiculous claim that Galen was weakend? I just love how you try to have your cake and eat it too. In the comic Felucia was described as a DARK SIDE NEXUS. The way I don't bring the novels description of Felucia into the novel, how about you don't f-ucking bring the novel's into the comic? Thank you.
I wasn't referring to any nexus shit Zoltan. I was referring to the fact that he unleashed that attack while he was being strangled by Sarlaac tentacles and that Shaak sensed his strength fading. I'd consider being strangled to the point where your opponent senses your life fading out as being a pretty significant hindrance.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
And overall throughout all 3 sources you try to imply that Shaak solely benefit from the aid of the Saarlac and the Felucians yet forget how it would tax her reserves to constantly use beast controll / battle meditation on them.
If Shaak Ti's use of the Saarlac was more disadvantageous to her than advantageous, then surely with her great cunning and tactical sensibilities she wouldn't have used it. Clearly though it was an advantage, otherwise she wouldn't have used it.

And getting the native Felucians to fight alongside her absolutely is an advantage no matter what way you try to slice it.

So your arguments consist of pointing out that the game is sketchy, when what is in the cutscene still supports that Shaak was outmatched by Galen, and when no part of the game supports your position. That Shaak Ti throwing herself mostly onto someone else's blade is the same as merely overextending and leaving an opening, which is a pretty ridiculous comparison to make. And arguing Shaak Ti wasn't defending herself against an attack she was aware of in advance and was actively outstretching her hands towards and that Galen wasn't weakened when unleashing that attack despite the fact that he was being strangled when he did so.

I don't think I'm being f-ucking retarded here tbh.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by MythLord
Oh dear God, not this sh!t again...

Galen raised his blade by reflex, which impaled her. But he did so as she was attacking, so obviously she didn't just think of jumping right onto Marek's blade nor did she intend mutual defeat. That's just Marek's speculation, from which you conveniently omitted the part he muses that it was pure luck that he had managed to do even that.
Marek wouldn't be speculating that if he had raised his lightsaber after blocking Shaak's head strike. I'm pretty sure Galen, who unlike you actually has experience in lightsaber combat and was actually in that duel, isn't retarded enough to think that if he raised his lightsaber after blocking Shaak's strike she still would've died.

The mere fact that Galen was wondering if she had attempted a mutual destruction outcome is evidence that his blade was in place before he blocked Shaak's strike at his head, otherwise he wouldn't have considered that notion to begin with.

And while there is evidence suggesting Galen's blade was raised beforehand and that Shaak would've been impaled regardless of the success of her attack, there is no evidence suggesting that Galen's blade was raised after he blocked her attack.

The notion that Shaak Ti would've impaled herself regardless is reinforced by the text, Galen actually being in the fight, and being aware of the order in which he took certain actions.

The notion that Galen's wrong is based around no evidence other than your perspective of the fight that has no evidence to support it other than you wanting it to be so, and relies on the assumption that Galen's a complete retard.

What is it you have said so frequently on these forums? Occam's Razor? I hope you stick to that even when it's inconvenient for you tbh.

Originally posted by MythLord
It wouldn't really reduce it since he only kept her lightsaber blade at bay. Her body would still be flinging forwards. Regardless, I didn't bring momentum in the equation here.
Well clearly Galen's telekinetic block didn't draw her further in is the point I'm making.

Originally posted by MythLord
Staggering back can also mean being taken a back, or shocked by something which I'd imagine happened in this case since she just realized she had been stabbed.
English isn't your first language so I'll give you a pass on this one.

With that definition, if it was being applied, the text would've said "Shaak was staggered" or "it staggered her." Using that definition of staggered with the phrasing "She gasped and staggered backward" is the grammatical equivalent of "She gasped and shocked backward" or "She gasped and astonished backward" which is pretty grammatically retarded.

Between the sentence being in the context of her physical actions (with her gasping first), the use of the shocked definition of staggered being completely grammatically stupid in the way the word was used, and the word "backward" providing a direction for her motion, it's pretty obvious staggered was referring to a physical action in that sentence.

Originally posted by MythLord
Besides, that isn't the point I'm making. If Galen had been decapitated, raising his blade reflexively to stab Shaak couldn't have happened. He would've been decapitated if he hadn't got a lucky Force Push in.
And your suggestion that he raised his blade after that block has no evidence substantiating it, and the evidence we do have points in completely the opposite direction.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Selenial
Blatantly? That's a lie, they're rather even in the game, each gaining ground and loosing it, until he electrocutes the Sarlacc into killing Shaak Ti. That is not a display of superiority in force or sabers, but a distinctly opposite ideology in their usage of the environment.
I was referring to the quicktime events in which Galen drives her back in lightsaber combat, telekinetically hurls her into the Sarlaac. Then Shaak attacks him with the Sarlaac and he escapes the Sarlaac. Then she leaps at him, and despite having a lot of momentum built up, him blocking her attack knocks her backwards through the air, then he electrocutes her, hurls her into the Sarlaac's tentacles, then unleashing a Force storm on the Sarlaac that clearly hits her too considering she limply dropped from the Sarlaac instead of leaping off of it or making any attempt to stick a landing.

In that quicktime, the only time Shaak gets any advantage is when she compels the Sarlaac to attack him, and in every instance where they directly engage each other or Galen wields his force power against her he has the advantage.

This is not me lying, it is a blatant observation of what happened in the quick time. He was driving her back in lightsaber combat, he telekinetically hurled her, he physically overpowered her when she leaped at him with a lot of built up momentum, he electrocuted her, and she only was on even or superior footing when the Sarlaac was attacking him.

Originally posted by Selenial
Incorrect again. She would stab him in the eye, he would stab her in the stomach. Given she is on friendly territory, can enter healing trances, and has survived direct shots to the stomach (where she was stabbed) in the past, her wound was evidently one she could survive. Let me know if Galen's ever survived being stabbed through the brain, though.
If Galen lifted his blade up as she was throwing herself on it, it would've cut through more vital organs and potentially her heart. If Galen threw his head back or to the side or dodged her attack and her attack failed, she would've been seriously wounded against Galen and lost. If Galen blocked her attack with the Force (which he did) she would've been seriously injured and outmatched in such a state (which she was).

If everything would've worked out perfectly for her, Galen would be dead and she would be seriously injured. If anything went wrong with that attack, then Shaak would either be dead alongside Galen, or injured and outmatched against a still standing Galen.

The fact of the matter is Shaak Ti throwing herself on a lightsaber blade is without any shadow of a doubt an extremely risky gamble, and one she lost, and if Galen wasn't closer to Shaak as a duelist than you'd like him to be, she would've never resorted to such a risky tactic.

Originally posted by Selenial
> says is using the comic
> says weakened
> comic references Dark Side's strength on Felucia.
I'm referring to him being weakened by the fact that he was being strangled by a ****ing tentacle monster when he unleashed that attack and that Shaak could sense his strength fading.

Originally posted by Selenial
10/10, failed to mention she wasn't facing him and was only hit due to underestimating his rage.
She sensed something and turned to face him before he unleashed his attack, and had her arms outstretched towards him when he did so.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Or you are f-ucking retarded. There's this thing called PIS, idk if you heared of it. Inferior fighters constantly win, stalemate, or survive fights they have no business to. Get with the program. Now let's go through your retarded analysis of the 3 depiction of the fight.

1. The game

Considering it's 100% gameplay, 0 cutscenes I don't know where the f-uck you get that Galen blatantly beats her. Maybe if you are playing on easy mode, because your mental capacity clearly can't carry you through harder difficulties, I guess you could think Galen dominated her. The point is there's no f-ucking evidence for it in the game.

2. The novel

So Shaak overextended, what of it? Dooku overextended against Vos too, despite being an almost perfect duelist and a clear superior to Vos. Shaak too was still clearly superior to Galen to the point that he acknowledges that he's lucky to be alive.

3. The comic

I kinda find it funny how you can so rigorously go through the context of the novel fight to shit on Shaak and then blatantly ignore the context of the comic to yet again shit on Shaak.

Yes Shaak was injured by an omnidirectional push from Galen, but the context doesn't end there. How about the fact that Shaak thought the fight was over and lowered her defenses? No I guess that didn't occure to you.

And your ridiculous claim that Galen was weakend? I just love how you try to have your cake and eat it too. In the comic Felucia was described as a DARK SIDE NEXUS. The way I don't bring the novels description of Felucia into the novel, how about you don't f-ucking bring the novel's into the comic? Thank you.

And overall throughout all 3 sources you try to imply that Shaak solely benefit from the aid of the Saarlac and the Felucians yet forget how it would tax her reserves to constantly use beast controll / battle meditation on them.

Lastly, I for one never claimed Shaak is superior to Galen in every way. There's no proof that she's more powerful for example. But clearly she's close enough to contend.

You've called just about everybody who's disagreed with you for the last week retarded. Are you running out of reaction images and witty retorts?

Both the Wii and Xbox/PC version end with Galen being required to electrocute the sarlaac and Shaak Ti who is on the Sarlaac until she falls to the ground in a heap.

Shaak didn't overextend. She attempted a suicidal move that ultimately failed. And there's legitimately no such thing as luck. It's a term we use to describe fortuitous events that were unprovoked but that in no way befits Galen's force enhanced reflexes being capable of reacting to Shaak's blows and preventing a fatal wound.

What evidence is there for Shaak lowering her defenses against an opponent who still possessed enough power at that point in the fight to blow up a mega sarlaac? Something she would have certainly been able to sense. Shaak is praised as one of the most tactically minded duelists in the Jedi Order. The action you're suggesting she took is highly illogical when taking that into account. Guess that didn't occur to you?

The comic states that the Darkside was strong on Felucia. Nowhere does the novel contradict that. It simply adds that its power has been diminished by Shaak's actions in tilting the balance in favor of the Light. In fact the novel goes further elaborating that Felucia experiences the normal shifts between the light and the dark ( the comic notes that Felucia had been sliding to the dark at the time when Galen fought Shaak ) but that Shaak had interrupted that natural flow. That's an amazingly impressive feat for Shaak but it doesn't change the fact of the world's alignment at the time.

She was certainly gaining more from their intervention then she was losing considering she was utilizing them in the the first place.

Emperordmb
Ninjaed..?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Selenial
I get it honey, you're trying all over again to argue that Kas'im wouldn't get slaughtered by an entirely superior Jedi. No need to take it out on Zoltan just because no one agrees with your an heroic logic smile

You lost the debate against that "an heroic logic." thumb up

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yes. Cherry picking quotes, disregarding context, flat out lies, and on top of it all acting like he's actually the reasonable here tends to do that.

Zoltan. I think you're really salty with yourself and after years of trolling you just can't tell the difference anymore. smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Zoltan, you do sound a lil angry, yeah. Have too much to drink last night? smile

UCanShootMyNova
Perhaps that's why you're a veritable sewer belching out cancerous arguments and after that stale memes when your already pitiful ability to debate fails you.

2 mutch algohol bad 4 brain.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Damn. Brutal roasting. Headshot. smile

UCanShootMyNova
#TakeNoPrisoners

#CleanseTheseForums

#StealingQuan'sHashtags

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Ninjaed..?

We sort of combined our efforts to form a massive wall against Shaak wank tbh. smile

Emperordmb
As is tradition.

someone needs to get Reti up in this ***** so we can drink his tears

Ursumeles
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
#TakeNoPrisoners

#CleanseTheseForums

#StealingQuan'sHashtags
#HeilQuan

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Ursumeles
#HeilQuan

#HeilQuan

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I was referring to the quicktime event where he blatantly drives her back in lightsaber combat and dominates her with the Force.

But if you don't count the quicktime events and only the cutscenes fair enough, however the fight still ends with Galen walking towards a Shaak Ti lying on the ground who then an heroed, so even without the gameplay or quicktime events it's pretty clear Shaak Ti ended that fight in a disadvantageous position and wasn't confident in her ability to best Galen.

But even if we were to disregard that instance there's still two more to pull from.

I dunno man, in QTEs Galen ragdolled Vader and Sidious. They might not be accurate, but what do I know...

And yes Shaak was beaten in a cutscene. Obviously duh, since she died and Galen not. The point is you have no ****ing idea what went down in the game. Shaak could've been better but still end up losing, it could've been close or a stomp. Or pretty much anything. It doesn't support my stance any more than yours.


Originally posted by Emperordmb
Dooku leaving an opening that Vos uses to disarm him is him overextending, Shaak Ti throwing herself into someone's blade is not simply overextending, it is a significantly more egregious error than that.

There's nothing simple about it lmao. She didn't literally jump on the blade, it was a reflex move from Galen in result of her overextending.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
He acknowledges he's lucky to be alive, but at the same time he acknowledges that if her attack had succeeded in skewering his face, she would've still died. And it's also stated that Shaak Ti's final attack against Galen was desperate. I'm not saying that Galen is a superior duelist than Shaak, but the notion that she's a significantly better duelist than Galen is rather laughable.

Who said she's significantly better? Anyhow how the duel ended doesn't change the fact that Shaak was comfortably ahead of Galen in that duel.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
She sensed some shit happening before Galen unleashed the repulse, she was facing the attack with her hands outstretched towards it, and she was not completely flung away by it, so clearly she sensed it coming, and was defending herself against it.

Unless you want to argue that when Shaak Ti senses something going on in a fight before it happens and actively extends her hands towards her opponent she isn't making use of her force defenses.

Lmao another blatant lie. She "sensed it" oh sooo in advance that the repulse interrupted her in mid sentence? And having her arm extended and defending herself? She just tried to shield her face and was failing. The attack was already through before she could mount a defense. It's pretty obvious she was caughed offguard.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I wasn't referring to any nexus shit Zoltan. I was referring to the fact that he unleashed that attack while he was being strangled by Sarlaac tentacles and that Shaak sensed his strength fading. I'd consider being strangled to the point where your opponent senses your life fading out as being a pretty significant hindrance.

Fair enough, but that still leaves the dark side nexus which amps Galen and weakens Shaak.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
If Shaak Ti's use of the Saarlac was more disadvantageous to her than advantageous, then surely with her great cunning and tactical sensibilities she wouldn't have used it. Clearly though it was an advantage, otherwise she wouldn't have used it.

And getting the native Felucians to fight alongside her absolutely is an advantage no matter what way you try to slice it.

I didn't say they were a hindernce. Reading issues? I said you omitted the detail that it's not only pros about having them with her, but cons as well. Just your usual strategy in debating Shaak. Let's list everything advantageous to Shaak while keeping silent about the disadvantages.


Originally posted by Emperordmb
So your arguments consist of pointing out that the game is sketchy, when what is in the cutscene still supports that Shaak was outmatched by Galen, and when no part of the game supports your position. That Shaak Ti throwing herself mostly onto someone else's blade is the same as merely overextending and leaving an opening, which is a pretty ridiculous comparison to make. And arguing Shaak Ti wasn't defending herself against an attack she was aware of in advance and was actively outstretching her hands towards and that Galen wasn't weakened when unleashing that attack despite the fact that he was being strangled when he did so.

I don't think I'm being f-ucking retarded here tbh.

With more lies, comprehension issues, and irrelevant arguments I think you are tho smile

UCanShootMyNova
Guess you haven't had enough. wink

Don't worry, I'll satiate your hunger for butt whoopings. smile

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Perhaps that's why you're a veritable sewer belching out cancerous arguments and after that stale memes when your already pitiful ability to debate fails you.

2 mutch algohol bad 4 brain.

That coming from a guy whom everyone thinks is a shit tier debater is pretty rich.

cs_zoltan

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You admitted you were salty on the last page, so f-uck you PG wanker. smile

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
That coming from a guy whom everyone thinks is a shit tier debater is pretty rich.

That coming from someone who's not even considered a debater doesn't mean jack shit to me. smile

Selenial
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I was referring to the quicktime events in which Galen drives her back in lightsaber combat, telekinetically hurls her into the Sarlaac. Then Shaak attacks him with the Sarlaac and he escapes the Sarlaac. Then she leaps at him, and despite having a lot of momentum built up, him blocking her attack knocks her backwards through the air, then he electrocutes her, hurls her into the Sarlaac's tentacles, then unleashing a Force storm on the Sarlaac that clearly hits her too considering she limply dropped from the Sarlaac instead of leaping off of it or making any attempt to stick a landing.

In that quicktime, the only time Shaak gets any advantage is when she compels the Sarlaac to attack him, and in every instance where they directly engage each other or Galen wields his force power against her he has the advantage.

This is not me lying, it is a blatant observation of what happened in the quick time. He was driving her back in lightsaber combat, he telekinetically hurled her, he physically overpowered her when she leaped at him with a lot of built up momentum, he electrocuted her, and she only was on even or superior footing when the Sarlaac was attacking him.

And that quicktime event is not the only scripted part of the fight. They literally introduced the Force Lock mechanic during her fight, another quick time event that shows two force users locked in a distinctly close battle of tutaminis.

You're also acting as if a sequence of events that results in death is the same thing as showing complete superiority. Yes, he drew on his strength and pushed her back in a blade lock, so what? That happens in almost every fight ever, Ventress has pushed Anakin back in blade-locks several times. Yes, he landed a force push on her, tied perfectly into his style in a niman motion. Barriss Offee has done the same sequence to Anakin Skywalker. The only difference was Galen's resulted in a kill; because he had the advantage of abusing a Sarlacc. She obviously wasn't close to death or obviously beaten before that, because she could have left the fight then and there, but was fast enough to position herself on the beast, and strong enough to dominate it's mind in a space of time lasting half a second at best.




You're arbitrarily assigning Galen to be in a position to actually do any of those things. It's clear in the novel that he wasn't, he was so overwhelmed by her assault that he barely even understood what happened. In the heat of the moment, any competent Jedi would have seen that, so no, Galen suddenly being in a position to actually kill her, or move his head despite not seeing the attack coming isn't actually a viable alternative. And she would have known that.

Obviously her assault was a risky gamble, and I never claim that she's infinitely superior to him. He's a Soresu wielder with a strong defense, and I've always held the position that he did not increase astronomically over the course of the latter stages of the novel, I don't know why you're suddenly suggesting I like to argue Shaak as being leagues above him.

What did Dooku do, when presented with an inferior, but obviously skilled duelist in Kenobi? Often he resorted to the force. As literally no council member bar Yoda could rag-doll Marek, what do you expect Shaak Ti to do, if not perform a risky manoeuvre?

Ataru is literally built as a sequence of risky manoeuvre's, leaving yourself hopelessly susceptible to counterattacks, but hoping your ferocity and unpredictability are enough to hold your opponent off.

Her form backfired due to his prowess as a Force User. Another day and she might have won, but that just wouldn't be good storytelling now would it.




Ah, yes, if only Sith had this raw emotion they used to fuel their power. Some sort of emotion that would only become much stronger as their life began to fade and they realised they might actually die....

mmm

If only such an emotion existed, he might not have been 'weakened' by the Sarlacc's attack smile

Turned, couldn't even finish the word that came out of her mouth, and had her arms tucked up to her face. Yeh, that really shows full preparation, you're right roll eyes (sarcastic)

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
That coming from someone who's not even considered a debater doesn't mean jack shit to me. smile

Yeah sure roll eyes (sarcastic)

MythLord
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Marek wouldn't be speculating that if he had raised his lightsaber after blocking Shaak's head strike. I'm pretty sure Galen, who unlike you actually has experience in lightsaber combat and was actually in that duel, isn't retarded enough to think that if he raised his lightsaber after blocking Shaak's strike she still would've died.

The mere fact that Galen was wondering if she had attempted a mutual destruction outcome is evidence that his blade was in place before he blocked Shaak's strike at his head, otherwise he wouldn't have considered that notion to begin with.

And while there is evidence suggesting Galen's blade was raised beforehand and that Shaak would've been impaled regardless of the success of her attack, there is no evidence suggesting that Galen's blade was raised after he blocked her attack.

The notion that Shaak Ti would've impaled herself regardless is reinforced by the text, Galen actually being in the fight, and being aware of the order in which he took certain actions.

The notion that Galen's wrong is based around no evidence other than your perspective of the fight that has no evidence to support it other than you wanting it to be so, and relies on the assumption that Galen's a complete retard.

What is it you have said so frequently on these forums? Occam's Razor? I hope you stick to that even when it's inconvenient for you tbh.

I don't need Occams Razor when I have the text to support my idea. First of all, Galen did raise his lightsaber by reflex, why would he do that if he wasn't attacked?

"He backed away, shocked by how close he had come to death and how lucky he had been to defeat her. He had raised his lightsaber by reflex."

Second of all, the text notes "practically" threw herself, as in it's almost as if she did such an action, though that was never her intention:

"She had, in the desperation of her final assault, practically thrown herself on the blade. Perhaps she had meant for the two of them to defeat each other at the same time.

Galen's musings could also be interpreted as him assuming Shaak knew she would need to overextend. Conversely, there is no evidence that Galen simply held his lightsaber out before Ti even made an attack that would leave her vulnerable as would be absolutely retarded.
So this interpretation that she legitimately threw herself onto a lightsaber blade that was already raised as answer to an attack that wasn't even executed yet makes no sense whatsoever.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well clearly Galen's telekinetic block didn't draw her further in is the point I'm making.

That's all fine and dandy, but I never brought it up.

Fair enough on the staggering thing, though.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And your suggestion that he raised his blade after that block has no evidence substantiating it, and the evidence we do have points in completely the opposite direction.

He would've raised it as she attacked, not before her attack. In which case she couldn't stop herself and her only hope was decapitating him first which she would have done had Galen not used the Force.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I dunno man, in QTEs Galen ragdolled Vader and Sidious. They might not be accurate, but what do I know...

And yes Shaak was beaten in a cutscene. Obviously duh, since she died and Galen not. The point is you have no ****ing idea what went down in the game. Shaak could've been better but still end up losing, it could've been close or a stomp. Or pretty much anything. It doesn't support my stance any more than yours.
What instance are you referring to with Vader?

And with Sidious, Galen pretty much blatantly said Sidious was deceiving him by feigning weakness in that same source.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
There's nothing simple about it lmao. She didn't literally jump on the blade, it was a reflex move from Galen in result of her overextending.
Shaak Ti moving into Galen's blade as he raises it and having more than half of its length shoved through her body to the extent where Galen wonders if she intentionally got herself impaled in order to kill him is a bit more of an egregious overextension than Dooku moving his blade too far and getting disarmed.

The move was such an error Galen thought it was possible she did it intentionally. That is not as simple as Dooku moving his blade too far that Vos was able to disarm him, considering she clearly left herself much more open than Dooku did.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Who said she's significantly better? Anyhow how the duel ended doesn't change the fact that Shaak was comfortably ahead of Galen in that duel.
The duel ended with her final assault being described as desperate, and Galen wondering if she intended for both of them to die... that doesn't sound "comfortable" to me.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Lmao another blatant lie. She "sensed it" oh sooo in advance that the repulse interrupted her in mid sentence? And having her arm extended and defending herself? She just tried to shield her face and was failing. The attack was already through before she could mount a defense. It's pretty obvious she was caughed offguard.
Mid sentence? She said "Wha?" You've never had that reaction to something unusual? So she realizes something's going on in a fight, and has the awareness and time to turn around and raise her hands but not a Force barrier? If she hadn't raised a Force barrier, then surely the attack would've hurled her back.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Fair enough, but that still leaves the dark side nexus which amps Galen and weakens Shaak.
What about the fact that Galen's attack wasn't focused on Shaak Ti, it was omnidirectional. If you want to argue the nexus and strangulation cancel each other out, then Galen still seriously wounded her with a Force attack where most of his power was not aimed at her.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I didn't say they were a hindernce. Reading issues? I said you omitted the detail that it's not only pros about having them with her, but cons as well. Just your usual strategy in debating Shaak. Let's list everything advantageous to Shaak while keeping silent about the disadvantages.
It is overall a net advantage Zoltan. That is the point I am making. Shaak Ti having to telepathically manipulate the Sarlaac doesn't change that fact.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Selenial
And that quicktime event is not the only scripted part of the fight. They literally introduced the Force Lock mechanic during her fight, another quick time event that shows two force users locked in a distinctly close battle of tutaminis.
A distinctly close battle? You do realize there is nothing indicating how long that lock lasted or how evenly matched it was, and nothing indicating which way it ended. That doesn't prove shit about how closely they were matched in the Force.

Originally posted by Selenial
You're also acting as if a sequence of events that results in death is the same thing as showing complete superiority. Yes, he drew on his strength and pushed her back in a blade lock, so what? That happens in almost every fight ever, Ventress has pushed Anakin back in blade-locks several times. Yes, he landed a force push on her, tied perfectly into his style in a niman motion. Barriss Offee has done the same sequence to Anakin Skywalker. The only difference was Galen's resulted in a kill; because he had the advantage of abusing a Sarlacc. She obviously wasn't close to death or obviously beaten before that, because she could have left the fight then and there, but was fast enough to position herself on the beast, and strong enough to dominate it's mind in a space of time lasting half a second at best.
When every part of that quicktime event where they directly engage each other has Galen holding an advantage, it's not unfair to say Galen was portrayed as holding the advantage.

Originally posted by Selenial
You're arbitrarily assigning Galen to be in a position to actually do any of those things. It's clear in the novel that he wasn't, he was so overwhelmed by her assault that he barely even understood what happened. In the heat of the moment, any competent Jedi would have seen that, so no, Galen suddenly being in a position to actually kill her, or move his head despite not seeing the attack coming isn't actually a viable alternative. And she would have known that.
Well clearly Galen was in a position to do one of those things, he was in a position to react to the attack, and he was aware of that attack because he did ultimately react to it, and it clearly wasn't obvious to Shaak what Galen was capable and incapable of doing in that moment because he did something she didn't account for.

Galen was clearly capable of reacting to it because he did. If he reacted differently than with TK, he might have gone for a physical evasion, or desperately pulled his blade upwards to try and block it, the latter of which would've lead to his blade cutting through Shaak's vital organs. You cannot say it was perfectly reasonable for Shaak to move into Galen's blade and not think she was to some extent risking defeat or mutual destruction.

Originally posted by Selenial
Obviously her assault was a risky gamble, and I never claim that she's infinitely superior to him. He's a Soresu wielder with a strong defense, and I've always held the position that he did not increase astronomically over the course of the latter stages of the novel, I don't know why you're suddenly suggesting I like to argue Shaak as being leagues above him.
I do think Shaak is better than him as a duelist, but I don't think she's solidly better than him if that's how she decided to try and end the fight.

And I disagree with you on Galen not improving a lot after the Shaak Ti fight, given the quote saying his skill increased, the quote saying his physicality increased a lot, and the numerous quotes speaking to his growth in the Force throughout the remainder of the novel.

On the timeline, Galen is closer to his fight with Rahm than his fight with Vader, and I'm sure you can admit that there is a rather massive difference between the two.

Originally posted by Selenial
What did Dooku do, when presented with an inferior, but obviously skilled duelist in Kenobi? Often he resorted to the force. As literally no council member bar Yoda could rag-doll Marek, what do you expect Shaak Ti to do, if not perform a risky manoeuvre?
If she's actually solidly better than him as a duelist I would expect her to try and beat him in a way that doesn't involve her ending the fight with a move where the best case scenario is victory with severe injury and where the worst case scenario is practically suicide.

Originally posted by Selenial
Ataru is literally built as a sequence of risky manoeuvre's, leaving yourself hopelessly susceptible to counterattacks, but hoping your ferocity and unpredictability are enough to hold your opponent off.
If what you're saying is that Shaak Ti's fighting style consists of her leaving herself open like that, then that is a weakness that still detracts from her combative viability.

Originally posted by Selenial
Her form backfired due to his prowess as a Force User. Another day and she might have won, but that just wouldn't be good storytelling now would it.
And good storytelling is having a fight meant to be Galen's last test ending in a way that doesn't prove Galen beat her by the merit of being better than her?

Originally posted by Selenial
Ah, yes, if only Sith had this raw emotion they used to fuel their power. Some sort of emotion that would only become much stronger as their life began to fade and they realised they might actually die....

mmm

If only such an emotion existed, he might not have been 'weakened' by the Sarlacc's attack smile
She was feeling his strength in the Force fading, and he was simultaneously dealing with physically augmenting himself to not be crushed. If you are seriously going to suggest that him being in a stranglehold wasn't hindering him, then I really don't know what to tell you there.

Originally posted by Selenial
Turned, couldn't even finish the word that came out of her mouth, and had her arms tucked up to her face. Yeh, that really shows full preparation, you're right roll eyes (sarcastic)
And I find it funny that you're mocking my description of what happened when you initially described Shaak Ti as facing the other direction when the attack hit.

She was in a fight, she felt that something was happening, and had enough time to physically turn around and raise her arms, and you're telling me that despite that she was incapable of raising a Force barrier, and that somehow without having raised Force defenses the attack didn't hurl her off of her feet? That doesn't make much sense to me Sel.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by MythLord
I don't need Occams Razor when I have the text to support my idea. First of all, Galen did raise his lightsaber by reflex, why would he do that if he wasn't attacked?
Because she was in the middle of an attack sequence where she was attacking him. It's not like she wasn't attacking him prior to making that strike.

By that same logic, why would Galen raise his lightsaber reflexively to that attack if he had already blocked that attack and she didn't make any more attack.

It's obvious that Galen raising his blade was reflexively due to him charging her, which was happening before he blocked her strike, and before she even initiated that strike to begin with considering she was already in an attack sequence.

Originally posted by MythLord
"He backed away, shocked by how close he had come to death and how lucky he had been to defeat her. He had raised his lightsaber by reflex."

Second of all, the text notes "practically" threw herself, as in it's almost as if she did such an action, though that was never her intention:

"She had, in the desperation of her final assault, practically thrown herself on the blade. Perhaps she had meant for the two of them to defeat each other at the same time.

Galen's musings could also be interpreted as him assuming Shaak knew she would need to overextend. Conversely, there is no evidence that Galen simply held his lightsaber out before Ti even made an attack that would leave her vulnerable as would be absolutely retarded.
So this interpretation that she legitimately threw herself onto a lightsaber blade that was already raised as answer to an attack that wasn't even executed yet makes no sense whatsoever.
The semantics on what Shaak Ti did are irrelevant to this discussion, however practically means that what she did was close enough to that action, and Galen wondering if she got impaled intentionally, both mean that she still moved into his attack while she was attacking him.

The fact of the matter that you seem to be so desperately trying to make yourself willfully ignorant of is that Galen wouldn't have been wondering if it was a mutually assured destruction outcome attempt if Shaak's attack succeeding wouldn't have obviously ended with her impaled on his blade.

Originally posted by MythLord
That's all fine and dandy, but I never brought it up.

Fair enough on the staggering thing, though.
So after Galen blocked her strike, she moved herself through most of the length of his blade?

Originally posted by MythLord
He would've raised it as she attacked, not before her attack. In which case she couldn't stop herself and her only hope was decapitating him first which she would have done had Galen not used the Force.
If he was raising it as she was attacking, then his blade would be moving to impale her just as her attack was moving to impale his face, which would've still ended in Shaak being impaled.

You trying to say he raised his blade after he blocked her attack still has absolutely no basis, even by your own logic.


You're saying that Galen raising his blade before her strike makes no sense since he wouldn't be acting reflexively to anything she was doing, even though that strike was at the end of an attack sequence where she was already on the offensive and levying strikes against him. He could've been acting reflexively to the attack sequence as a whole, or her moving towards him, or while she was striking at him, but by your own logic him reflexively raising his blade after he already blocked her strike makes no ****ing sense.

You are saying that Shaak Ti got impaled after her strike failed, when the text saying that she moved into his blade in the desperation of her final assault, and when Galen is wondering if she intended for them to both take each other out at the same time, which for his musing to have any logical basis means he either raised his blade prior to or at the same time as he blocked the attack, which means Shaak Ti would've still been impaled on his blade even if the attack succeeded.

You are trying to twist words, use semantics, and aim for far-fetched interpretations of the text to support the narrative that makes Shaak Ti look better, despite the text making it abundantly clear that if Galen hadn't blocked the strike they would've taken each other out, and the reasoning you are using to argue that Galen raising his blade before her strike makes no sense applies even moreso to the notion that Galen raised his blade after he blocked her strike.

Selenial
Originally posted by Emperordmb
A distinctly close battle? You do realize there is nothing indicating how long that lock lasted or how evenly matched it was, and nothing indicating which way it ended. That doesn't prove shit about how closely they were matched in the Force.


When every part of that quicktime event where they directly engage each other has Galen holding an advantage, it's not unfair to say Galen was portrayed as holding the advantage.

I misspoke when claiming it was a close battle, I meant to say that it implies at least a close parity in raw force power. Why else, for example, was that quick time event not introduced in other boss fights, and the very nature of being 'locked' in a force battle requiring effort to overpower implies they're close.

And yes, it is unfair to claim that based off two lightsaber strikes and a deception. She was performing relatively well against his strength, she had no problem actually duelling him, she merely was caught off guard twice. Contrary to that, he underestimated her just as much, and was nearly killed in turn.




Yes, he was able to react to the attack. I told you he couldn't have done any of the other things, because frankly, he wasn't in a position to position his blade in another angle, or dodge as you said. Dodging isn't fast enough, and positioning his blade slightly better isn't a defensive reflex as his force barrier was, he would never instinctively do it to save his life. He would raise his blade, and wherever that hits is wherever it hits, and she would be able to predict that.

Obviously she was risking defeat or mutual destruction. Mutual destruction would probably ultimately favour her goals over Vader's anyway, so I doubt that worried her. All I'm saying, is it was a pretty calculated risk, since it's not often a Force User like Galen comes along, you can't exactly fault someone for not expecting that level of raw power.




I've made my thoughts on this clear in several threads before, and have no intent on revisiting it. Do remember I'm not really here to argue Shaak vs Galen, I was pointing out your factually incorrect statements, which this has nothing to do with.


Just like it detracts from Yoda's, yes, what's your point?



Given the whole shit about him not being as powerful as he thinks, afterwards, yeh, I guess.



Oh, wait, you have an extra source that you've never told anyone about? Because all I'm reading here is that she can feel 'him fading'. Nothing about strength in the force, they're distinctly different.

Some of every Sith's greatest force feats come during times of injury and rage, I don't know what to tell you. Being in pain doesn't hinder Sith.

To put it another way, using the Game and Novel as alternative sources, he is her superior but not blatantly so, she has defended herself from his attacks on other occasions, including both his Force Lightning and TK. So, if he manages to one shot her, you must accept either he was amped to his true potential, or that she wasn't able to raise a proper force barrier. You seem to be trying to deny both, and that does not make sense.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Selenial
I misspoke when claiming it was a close battle, I meant to say that it implies at least a close parity in raw force power. Why else, for example, was that quick time event not introduced in other boss fights, and the very nature of being 'locked' in a force battle requiring effort to overpower implies they're close.
You do realize that that same type of Force lock also happens in the Ultimate Sith edition between Starkiller and Luke right? Even though Starkiller is displayed as being significantly above Luke?

Just the fact that they're force powers clashed doesn't prove anything when there's no evidence as to how those clashes went.

Originally posted by Selenial
And yes, it is unfair to claim that based off two lightsaber strikes and a deception. She was performing relatively well against his strength, she had no problem actually duelling him, she merely was caught off guard twice. Contrary to that, he underestimated her just as much, and was nearly killed in turn.
I'm claiming the game supports Galen being above Shaak because in the only shown instances of them engaging in direct combat, Galen is driving Shaak back or landing Force strikes on her.

Originally posted by Selenial
Yes, he was able to react to the attack. I told you he couldn't have done any of the other things, because frankly, he wasn't in a position to position his blade in another angle, or dodge as you said. Dodging isn't fast enough, and positioning his blade slightly better isn't a defensive reflex as his force barrier was, he would never instinctively do it to save his life. He would raise his blade, and wherever that hits is wherever it hits, and she would be able to predict that.
So you're telling me that there's no chance of Galen bringing his blade higher and cutting through Shaak's vital organs and heart as a defensive reflex... even though such a move would be bringing his blade up towards her blade? Seems like a pretty reflexive move to me tbh

And what is this? Galen positioning his blade wouldn't have worked because Shaak would be able to predict it... even though she didn't predict him blocking it and according to you didn't predict his Force attack later on?

Originally posted by Selenial
Obviously she was risking defeat or mutual destruction. Mutual destruction would probably ultimately favour her goals over Vader's anyway, so I doubt that worried her. All I'm saying, is it was a pretty calculated risk, since it's not often a Force User like Galen comes along, you can't exactly fault someone for not expecting that level of raw power.
Mutual destruction would leave the obviously flawed apprentice Maris Brood without a master, remove one of the last remaining Jedi Masters from the Galaxy, and rob the native Felucians of her leadership.

We saw what happened when Shaak Ti did die, Maris and the Felucians fell to the Dark Side... how exactly does that favor her goals?

Originally posted by Selenial
I've made my thoughts on this clear in several threads before, and have no intent on revisiting it. Do remember I'm not really here to argue Shaak vs Galen, I was pointing out your factually incorrect statements, which this has nothing to do with.
And I've made it clear I think you trying to scale Shaak Ti off of end of Game Galen and Vader is a disingenuous argument that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Originally posted by Selenial
Just like it detracts from Yoda's, yes, what's your point?
It doesn't detract from Yoda's because the extent to which Yoda has that weakness has never been displayed getting him impaled by a Galen Marek level duelist.

If that weakness got her impaled in a duel, it is a valid criticism of her combative ability, not something that can be excused just by saying "it's part of her fighting style"

Originally posted by Selenial
Oh, wait, you have an extra source that you've never told anyone about? Because all I'm reading here is that she can feel 'him fading'. Nothing about strength in the force, they're distinctly different.
If she feels him fading, then clearly he is weakening. What else do you think him fading means?

Originally posted by Selenial
Some of every Sith's greatest force feats come during times of injury and rage, I don't know what to tell you. Being in pain doesn't hinder Sith.
Having your energy being depleted by physically resisting being crushed by a giant tentacle monster does hinder Sith. If he's having to constantly apply force augmentation to boost his strength and durability to resist the Sarlaac crushing him then that is taxing his power.

Originally posted by Selenial
To put it another way, using the Game and Novel as alternative sources, he is her superior but not blatantly so, she has defended herself from his attacks on other occasions, including both his Force Lightning and TK. So, if he manages to one shot her, you must accept either he was amped to his true potential, or that she wasn't able to raise a proper force barrier. You seem to be trying to deny both, and that does not make sense.
Where has she defended against his lightning and TK? I haven't seen these instances you are referring to.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Emperordmb
What instance are you referring to with Vader?

And with Sidious, Galen pretty much blatantly said Sidious was deceiving him by feigning weakness in that same source.

https://youtu.be/HblR0sMoh3s?t=15m40s

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Shaak Ti moving into Galen's blade as he raises it and having more than half of its length shoved through her body to the extent where Galen wonders if she intentionally got herself impaled in order to kill him is a bit more of an egregious overextension than Dooku moving his blade too far and getting disarmed.

This is all irrelevant, I never claimed that Dooku's was just as worse, only that other high (even higher) calibre duelist can overextend against an inferior opponent and end up losing.



Originally posted by Emperordmb
The duel ended with her final assault being described as desperate, and Galen wondering if she intended for both of them to die... that doesn't sound "comfortable" to me.

Shaak constantly driving Galen back, where most of the time he himself was desperate sounds just like that to me.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Mid sentence? She said "Wha?" You've never had that reaction to something unusual? So she realizes something's going on in a fight, and has the awareness and time to turn around and raise her hands but not a Force barrier? If she hadn't raised a Force barrier, then surely the attack would've hurled her back.

No, I don't hear "Wha-" as a reaction. It sounds more like "what?", you know. You seriously can't see that she was interrupted?

Raising your hand to your face as a reflex is not the same as erecting a proper barrier. The attack was already past her before she raised her hand anyway. And you can't even tell from the comic whether she was hurled back or not. Are you done making shit up?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What about the fact that Galen's attack wasn't focused on Shaak Ti, it was omnidirectional. If you want to argue the nexus and strangulation cancel each other out, then Galen still seriously wounded her with a Force attack where most of his power was not aimed at her.

Being omnidirectional doesn't mean it didn't have a focus. In Galen's place I would've targeted Shaak, idk about you.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
It is overall a net advantage Zoltan. That is the point I am making. Shaak Ti having to telepathically manipulate the Sarlaac doesn't change that fact.

Well it kinda does, considering the edge she gained from it was minimal if not nonexistant.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
https://youtu.be/HblR0sMoh3s?t=15m40s
Galen did hurl Vader in the novel though.

So he hurled him with TK after landing a lightsaber strike to his face after a series of events that involved him smashing a bunch of metal pillars into Vader's body? I can see how he would be in a disadvantageous state at that point.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
This is all irrelevant, I never claimed that Dooku's was just as worse, only that other high (even higher) calibre duelist can overextend against an inferior opponent and end up losing.
Vos was holding the advantage over Dooku in that duel when he overextended, and Dooku's mistake doesn't make Shaak Ti's bullshit excusable, when Dooku was in the position of disadvantage in that duel and didn't **** up nearly as bad.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Shaak constantly driving Galen back, where most of the time he himself was desperate sounds just like that to me.
I believe DD already argued that that had a lot to do with positioning and shit like that. Why don't you respond to his arguments instead of ignoring them?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
No, I don't hear "Wha-" as a reaction. It sounds more like "what?", you know. You seriously can't see that she was interrupted?

Raising your hand to your face as a reflex is not the same as erecting a proper barrier. The attack was already past her before she raised her hand anyway. And you can't even tell from the comic whether she was hurled back or not. Are you done making shit up?
If it got completely interrupted, it wouldn't be punctuated. The fact of the matter is that sometimes when people are a bit stunned they let their words trail off.

Erecting a Force barrier is a reflex Force wielders are trained to use in combat lmfao. She was on her feet after it hit, so clearly she erected some resistance against the attack.

Are you done relying on ad hominems like calling me a liar? Cause it's pretty pathetic and just proves your position is backed only by a pillar of salt.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Being omnidirectional doesn't mean it didn't have a focus. In Galen's place I would've targeted Shaak, idk about you.
He was targeting the Sarlacc tentacles that were wrapped around his entire body and strangling him lmfao The tentacles on every side of him that are trying to kill him are going to be the primary focus of his attack.


Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Well it kinda does, considering the edge she gained from it was minimal if not nonexistant.
Being able to call interference into a fight whenever you want based on what's convenient for you is hardly a minimal or nonexistant edge. If Shaak is in a tough spot, she can divert Galen's attention with a Sarlaac tentacle attack. If she wants to divert his attention to force him into an opening, she can use the Sarlaac to her advantage. That seems like a pretty notable advantage to me.

Even if Shaak has to divert telepathic power to use the Sarlaac, it is something she can tactically use to split Galen's attention when tactically convenient, and that forces Galen to not place himself in a position in that environment that makes him vulnerable to the Sarlaac.

If a bunch of native Felucians are attacking Galen while he's fighting Shaak, then that is a pretty substantive advantage that doesn't require Shaak to divert any of her power, but forces Galen to split his power and focus.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I believe DD already argued that that had a lot to do with positioning and shit like that. Why don't you respond to his arguments instead of ignoring them?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
So first off we have the fight starting off with Shaak in a superior position having a height advantage over Galen which allows her to generate a greater amount of kinetic force behind her blows then normal putting Galen off balance at the beginning of the fight.

"She smiled in mockery. "Are you prepared to meet your fate?" Then her lightsaber was lit and she was spinning through the air toward him, striking downward as she fell.

The apprentice simultaneously backflipped and blocked her opening blow. The force of it surprised him, and the recoil threw him backward. His hood caught on one of the sarlacc's teeth, and he tore it impatiently away before the snag could interfere with his defense. Shaak Ti's lightsaber was a jagged blue blur between them. He blocked her as best he could until he had his balance again." - The Force Unleashed.

He attempts to put distance between himself and Shaak but because he does not the place their fighting in like Shaak does he ends up plunging down into the maw of the sarlaac yet again allowing Shaak to gain the high ground.

"Then he jumped. Over her he spun and fell down two layers of teeth toward the mouth of the sarlacc. From there he jumped up again, angling away from her to avoid giving the Jedi the advantage of height, but she was there ahead of him, driving him back down with a series of blows so rapid he barely caught them all." - The Force Unleashed.

Note that at this time he's trying to get back to the edge of the sarlaac pit and out of its maw so meeting the strikes of a person with a high ground advantage as he's ascending is going to be especially hard to counter.

_____

Using a bolt of Sith lightning on the sarlaac Galen is able to regain even ground with Shaak.

"He summoned a bolt of Sith lightning and sent it down, into the flesh of the sarlacc. The beast roared and shook, giving him the opening he needed. Shaak Ti's right foot slipped, forcing her to flip elegantly out of reach of his blade. He leapt after her, swinging as he came." - The Force Unleashed.

As you can probably imagine the fight progresses much more evenly now that Shaak's advantages have been used up.

"The fight progressed around the sarlacc's center rings, blow and counterblow accompanied by the roaring of the beast. The apprentice cut off teeth and threw the fragments at his adversary's head. In return she took tighter control of the beast's distributed intelligence and sent its food-seeking tentacles flailing for him. He repulsed them and fought on.

Down they drove each other, closer and closer to the very lip of the creature's enormous mouth.

They then have an exchange which reveals why Shaak attempted her suicidal move. She knew she was running out of energy faster then Galen.

"You can't keep this up forever," he taunted Shaak Ti as they dueled.

"Neither can you," she said. "You are wasting your strength too quickly."

"The dark side is inexhaustible."

"Your strength is prodigious," she admitted, "but that is your doing." - The Force Unleashed.

Galen then proceeds to remove one of Shaak's lekku indicating the shift in the fight.

"He slashed at her own feet as they spun by overhead and sent one of her ribbons twirling down into the sarlacc's gaping mouth. "Spare me the philosophy lesson, Jedi," he snarled. "I'm only here for your blood." - The Force Unleashed.

This is when Shaak attempts to take Galen down with her in moves that find their mark but ultimately fail. And luck isn't a thing. If Galen hadn't had the honed reflexes he did all the luck in the world wouldn't have saved him. I'm not claiming he blocked the blow out of skill as that was clearly not the case but to claim that Galen only managed to do so because of convenience is lazy and biased.

Here you go Zoltan. Address it as you like.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Galen did hurl Vader in the novel though.

So he hurled him with TK after landing a lightsaber strike to his face after a series of events that involved him smashing a bunch of metal pillars into Vader's body? I can see how he would be in a disadvantageous state at that point.

You mean unlike Shaak? Anyhow, QTE is still gameplay so not canonically binding.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Vos was holding the advantage over Dooku in that duel when he overextended, and Dooku's mistake doesn't make Shaak Ti's bullshit excusable, when Dooku was in the position of disadvantage in that duel and didn't **** up nearly as bad.

I'm done trying to get the point through to you...

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I believe DD already argued that that had a lot to do with positioning and shit like that. Why don't you respond to his arguments instead of ignoring them?

Because he's a f-ucking imbecile, I don't even read his posts, let alone debate him.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
If it got completely interrupted, it wouldn't be punctuated. The fact of the matter is that sometimes when people are a bit stunned they let their words trail off.

This is some pretty retarded arguments. So you are arguing that she sensed the attack coming yet was stunned mid sentence? Makes perfect sense roll eyes (sarcastic)

I have a simpler theory, she was interrupted by the attack.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Erecting a Force barrier is a reflex Force wielders are trained to use in combat lmfao. She was on her feet after it hit, so clearly she erected some resistance against the attack.

It's a comic lmao, she could easily stand up between two panels. I find it funny how you think an attack can cause serious injury and be pathetic enough not to blow her off of her feat at once. A puny f-ucking push can blow people off of their feat and it causes no injury at all.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Are you done relying on ad hominems like calling me a liar? Cause it's pretty pathetic and just proves your position is backed only by a pillar of salt.

Well you kinda make shit up all the time that are neither backed up by facts, nor make any sense. I'm sorry it upsets you that I call you out on your bullshit.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
He was targeting the Sarlacc tentacles that were wrapped around his entire body and strangling him lmfao The tentacles on every side of him that are trying to kill him are going to be the primary focus of his attack.

So you are arguing that Galen is powerful enough to injure Shaak with an indirect hit, but at the same time not powerful enough to repulse Saarlac tentacles with an indirect hit? You are less consistant than feminazis.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Being able to call interference into a fight whenever you want based on what's convenient for you is hardly a minimal or nonexistant edge. If Shaak is in a tough spot, she can divert Galen's attention with a Sarlaac tentacle attack. If she wants to divert his attention to force him into an opening, she can use the Sarlaac to her advantage. That seems like a pretty notable advantage to me.

Except it doesn't happen. Well it happens once in both the novel and the comic. In the comic it results to Shaak lowering her defenses and getting surprised, in the novel it does literally nothing. Galen repuleses the tentacles and everything is back to normal.

Show me a quote where Shaak gained an edge from it.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Even if Shaak has to divert telepathic power to use the Sarlaac, it is something she can tactically use to split Galen's attention when tactically convenient, and that forces Galen to not place himself in a position in that environment that makes him vulnerable to the Sarlaac.

Except it didn't happen, right the contrary. Galen constantly wounded the Saarlac to slow down Shaak.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
If a bunch of native Felucians are attacking Galen while he's fighting Shaak, then that is a pretty substantive advantage that doesn't require Shaak to divert any of her power, but forces Galen to split his power and focus.

Only happened in the game.

UCanShootMyNova
Well, sorry Emp. Zoltan pussied out at the idea of facing me. I can handle Selenial or Wolf for you if they try to intervene so it's not a constant 3v1.

If you don't respond I'll just take over. Zoltan can choose to respond to that or not.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
You mean unlike Shaak? Anyhow, QTE is still gameplay so not canonically binding.
Yes because being forced to your knees by being slammed with multiple heavy objects and slashed across the face with a lightsaber is totally the same as focusing on something else, realizing something's about to happen, then returning her attention to her defenses? Seems legit.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I'm done trying to get the point through to you...
That's a relief, the false equivalency you were trying to draw to make Shaak's egregious mistake excusable by comparison was getting a bit irritating to read. So good on you for stopping thumb up

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Because he's a f-ucking imbecile, I don't even read his posts, let alone debate him.
Well he's making more sense than you on this thread tbf

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
This is some pretty retarded arguments. So you are arguing that she sensed the attack coming yet was stunned mid sentence? Makes perfect sense roll eyes (sarcastic)

I have a simpler theory, she was interrupted by the attack.
That or she sensed the attack cutting and cut herself off mid sentence to erect a Force defense as quickly as possible.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's a comic lmao, she could easily stand up between two panels. I find it funny how you think an attack can cause serious injury and be pathetic enough not to blow her off of her feat at once. A puny f-ucking push can blow people off of their feat and it causes no injury at all.
And there could've easily been more time between Shaak turning around and Galen unleashing the repulse by that same logic.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Well you kinda make shit up all the time that are neither backed up by facts, nor make any sense. I'm sorry it upsets you that I call you out on your bullshit.
I'm pretty sure anyone reading this debate can tell that I'm not the one whose upset here lmfao

Because despite how much you like to rip on Joker for wanking Ahsoka, you seem to take Shaak Ti wank a lot more personally and emotionally than he takes Ahsoka wank. I'd hate to see what kinda tantrum you'd throw if the two of you ever debated Shaak vs Ahsoka honestly. The amount of salt Joker wanking Ahsoka and arguing against Shaak Ti would generate within you would honestly make Trigglypuff seem calm and mature by comparison.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
So you are arguing that Galen is powerful enough to injure Shaak with an indirect hit, but at the same time not powerful enough to repulse Saarlac tentacles with an indirect hit? You are less consistant than feminazis.
No I'm arguing the main point of his attack is to free himself from the Sarlaac tentacles. That's why he used a repulse to begin with. Regardless he's clearly not focusing most of his power on Shaak, even if there's somehow a focal point headed in her direction.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Except it doesn't happen. Well it happens once in both the novel and the comic. In the comic it results to Shaak lowering her defenses and getting surprised, in the novel it does literally nothing. Galen repuleses the tentacles and everything is back to normal.

Show me a quote where Shaak gained an edge from it.
So much of the novel was nondescript fighting throughout the Sarlaac pit, and so much of the game was gameplay (though it's worth noting the Sarlaac played a huge role in the gameplay and quicktime events), and in the comic it's noted that Shaak Ti used the planet's flora and fauna to attack Galen and actually got Galen in a stranglehold via the Sarlaac, so I'd say it obviously played a role in the fight.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Except it didn't happen, right the contrary. Galen constantly wounded the Saarlac to slow down Shaak.
Shaak Ti made it's tentacles attack him in every source, so obviously Galen would have to work on positioning himself so he's not in a vulnerable position to the tentacles.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Only happened in the game.
The comic also notes that she had the flora and fauna of the planet attack him and that she had the planet at her command and wielded it against him.

Fated Xtasy
Why does this look familiar...

Holy shit are you seriously copying Ant's debating style?

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Why does this look familiar...

Holy shit are you seriously copying Ant's debating style?
His debating style? What are you talking about?

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by Emperordmb
His debating style? What are you talking about?

Nevermind. Yours doesn't compare to Ant's.

Proceedstick out tongue

MythLord
@DMB



And that's all fine and dandy, but first keep in mind how Shaak striked him. Three blows for three words:

"On her last three words, she struck three blows that each partially found their mark."

So there'd be a pause between each attack, allowing Galen to raise his attack in defense. Next do remember that Shaak already tagged Galen twice, in portions of his body that she couldn't possibly reach if he had already raised his lightsaber:

"The first burned a sizzling line down the apprentice's left shoulder. The second scored diagonally across his chest. The third would have skewered his right eye had he not held her back at the last minute with a desperate telekinetic block that stopped her lightsaber barely a millimeter from his skin.

She got one solid strike across his chest and sent a line down his shoulder. If he had raised his lightsaber via reflex and kept it there for the span of three words(lol), I doubt Shaak wouldn't be impaled just by the first strike.



But again: that's just Galen's musings based around Ti leaving herself exposed. Her "practically" doing it means it's almost as if she actually meant to do that, but that would hardly be the case because that in of itself would make Shaak Ti absolutely fvcking retarded which doesn't make sense for one of the best tactitions of the Clone Wars who impressed Palpatine himself.



The novel details she jumped/leapt at Galen, which is why she couldn't really stop herself or her momentum.



I countered all of this above. I don't feel the need to repeat myself down here.



And you're trying to ignore context, omit parts of the duel and sell your own interpretation of an event described by a fallible source who himself considered it pure luck he managed to block her attack and stab her. Of course, you also ignore the state in which Ti left him after their little duel. Where she only got pierced once, Galen had a dozen wounds and looked like he was mauled by a rancor:

"STARKILLER SEEMED CAUTIOUSLY ECSTATIC ON his return to the Rogue Shadow, even though he looked as though he had been mauled by a rancor. His combat uniform was rent in a dozen new places, and blood leaked from as many small wounds."

It's made fairly clear that Shaak was his superior, even if by a slight margin.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by MythLord
And that's all fine and dandy,
That's all fine and dandy? Seems like you've been talking to Fated so long his vernacular actually wore off on you.

Originally posted by MythLord
but first keep in mind how Shaak striked him. Three blows for three words:

"On her last three words, she struck three blows that each partially found their mark."

So there'd be a pause between each attack, allowing Galen to raise his attack in defense. Next do remember that Shaak already tagged Galen twice, in portions of his body that she couldn't possibly reach if he had already raised his lightsaber:.
You're suggesting he couldn't have raised his lightsaber in response to her first two strikes because he didn't block them with his lightsaber... but you're suggesting he did raise his lightsaber to block a third strike that he also didn't block with his lightsaber... and for some reason he raised his blade after he already blocked the strike?

What you are suggesting here makes no ****ing sense.

Originally posted by MythLord
"The first burned a sizzling line down the apprentice's left shoulder. The second scored diagonally across his chest. The third would have skewered his right eye had he not held her back at the last minute with a desperate telekinetic block that stopped her lightsaber barely a millimeter from his skin.

She got one solid strike across his chest and sent a line down his shoulder. If he had raised his lightsaber via reflex and kept it there for the span of three words(lol), I doubt Shaak wouldn't be impaled just by the first strike.
You still aren't proving jack shit. She was in the process of attacking him, so he clearly raised his blade in response to that assault, and likely raising his blade reflexively towards her as a result of her charging him. If she's charging towards him and he interposes his blade between them that is a valid reflex.

Galen raising his blade after Shaak's last strike though? What the **** is that in reaction to?

Originally posted by MythLord
But again: that's just Galen's musings based around Ti leaving herself exposed. Her "practically" doing it means it's almost as if she actually meant to do that, but that would hardly be the case because that in of itself would make Shaak Ti absolutely fvcking retarded which doesn't make sense for one of the best tactitions of the Clone Wars who impressed Palpatine himself.

The novel details she jumped/leapt at Galen, which is why she couldn't really stop herself or her momentum.
It says that she practically, as in almost threw herself onto his blade, specifically referring to her actions. Maybe she didn't literally jump on his blade, but the text still clearly implies that she moved into his blade, and if Galen is wondering whether or not she did it intentionally and did it with the intention of mutually assured outcome, then clearly Galen's blade was raised as she was attacking, not after her attack failed.

If he didn't raise his blade until after her attack failed then he wouldn't be wondering if she intentionally moved to kill them both at the same time. I don't get why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp Wollf. If Shaak Ti's attack succeeding would've prevented her from being stabbed, then Galen would not have been wondering if she was going for a mutual destruction outcome, and he wouldn't have been noting her as moving into his blade in the desperation of her final attack, not after it.

Originally posted by MythLord
I countered all of this above. I don't feel the need to repeat myself down here.
No you didn't. What you have done is wishful thinking.

Originally posted by MythLord
And you're trying to ignore context, omit parts of the duel and sell your own interpretation of an event described by a fallible source who himself considered it pure luck he managed to block her attack and stab her.
No. Galen is a fallible source, but I'm trusting Galen, a trained Force sensitive lightsaber duelist, to know if he raised his blade or blocked Shaak's lightsaber strike first, and given that he's wondering if she intended a mutual destruction outcome, it's clear Galen is judging this from the perspective of a combatant who had his blade up before he blocked Shaak's attack rather than raising it after her attack, because if he had raised his blade after her attack then his musings would make zero sense, and as a trained lightsaber and Force combatant who was actually in that duel he wouldn't have mused that in the first place if he had raised his blade after her attack failed.

Wollf, there is a reason you are the only person on the forums who I have ever seen make this argument, and it is because other Shaak wankers like Zoltan and Sel recognize that this is an argument with no basis.

The text does not say Galen raised his blade after he blocked her strike, and his musings are evidence that his blade was raised before he telekinetically blocked it because she moved into his blade during her attack and that for the possibility to exist of her attempting a mutually assured destruction outcome her attack succeeding would've still ended in her being impaled on her blade.

All of the evidence supports my position, and none of the evidence supports your position. That is why nobody else in the history of the forums and Shaak Ti wankers has ever used this ****ing argument, and why none of your fellow Shaak Ti wankers have adopted this argument.

Originally posted by MythLord
Of course, you also ignore the state in which Ti left him after their little duel.

Where she only got pierced once, Galen had a dozen wounds and looked like he was mauled by a rancor:

"STARKILLER SEEMED CAUTIOUSLY ECSTATIC ON his return to the Rogue Shadow, even though he looked as though he had been mauled by a rancor. His combat uniform was rent in a dozen new places, and blood leaked from as many small wounds."
I'm not mentioning it because it isn't relevant to the point I was making. It doesn't change the fact that Galen pressed Shaak hard enough in lightsaber combat to force her into that desperation tactic, or the fact that if Galen hadn't telekinetically blocked her strike it still would've ended in mutual destruction.

Galen's physical appearance doesn't change either of those facts, so you acting as if I'm ignoring it when it has nothing to do with my point is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to make it look like I'm being disingenuous and ignoring context, and it's an accusation with no weight behind it all things considered.

Originally posted by MythLord
It's made fairly clear that Shaak was his superior, even if by a slight margin.
I would accept that Shaak Ti is Galen's slight superior as a duelist, but in all-out combat Galen is superior, considering he won both the novel and comic fights with displays of telekinesis.

|King Joker|
DMB's soloing in a 3v1, LMFAO.

|King Joker|
The Ti fans mental gymnastics right now:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/93/0d/66/930d668d5a73d866a8bb664d2c194162.jpg

Beniboybling
Haven't read the thread, but figured. smile

cs_zoltan
It's pretty funny coming from the 2 guys who never had the balls to debate Sel on Shaak vs Ahsoka. So all you are left with is butthurt comments smile

I'll respond to DMB after my exam.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's pretty funny coming from the 2 guys who never had the balls to debate Sel on Shaak vs Ahsoka. Elaborate, lmfao.

Ursumeles
Ahsoka eats Shaak for Breakfast smile

DMB thumb up

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yes because being forced to your knees by being slammed with multiple heavy objects and slashed across the face with a lightsaber is totally the same as focusing on something else, realizing something's about to happen, then returning her attention to her defenses? Seems legit.

It's quite amazing how you can constantly miss the point. QTEs happen after you already beat your opponent. It's like me saying Kenobi could've ragdolled the burning Anakin so the duel must've been one sided.

Anyway can we stop debating canonically irrelevant gameplay mechanics?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's a relief, the false equivalency you were trying to draw to make Shaak's egregious mistake excusable by comparison was getting a bit irritating to read. So good on you for stopping thumb up

Sure thing kid roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well he's making more sense than you on this thread tbf

Lmao, that comment says a lot more about you than me.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That or she sensed the attack cutting and cut herself off mid sentence to erect a Force defense as quickly as possible.

You are just constantly repeating yourself without even addressing my argument. Pretty shit ngl. Are you gona explain how can someone defend from an attack to such degree that she's not even blow off her feet but at the same time gets seriously injured? Sounds f-ucking contradictory to me.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And there could've easily been more time between Shaak turning around and Galen unleashing the repulse by that same logic.

I'm starting to think your mind has missing panels by the jumps of logic you make. Anyhow, as I already said, and as you already ignored (as you seem to be doing with most of my arguments), Shaak was already hit by the attack before she could've even raise her hands.

http://i.imgur.com/rqtEtiX.jpg

I even highlighted it for your convenience.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm pretty sure anyone reading this debate can tell that I'm not the one whose upset here lmfao

Because despite how much you like to rip on Joker for wanking Ahsoka, you seem to take Shaak Ti wank a lot more personally and emotionally than he takes Ahsoka wank. I'd hate to see what kinda tantrum you'd throw if the two of you ever debated Shaak vs Ahsoka honestly. The amount of salt Joker wanking Ahsoka and arguing against Shaak Ti would generate within you would honestly make Trigglypuff seem calm and mature by comparison.

Right, you are oh so not upset that you are spending several posts to detail just how salty I presumably am. Is that suppose to be an argument against my points or a defensive mechanism? From my experience it's always the latter.

And yeah unlike Joker I'm constantly whiteknighting Shaak every day in every thread...Oh wait, I f-ucking don't. Your salty comments by the virtue of being a desperate strategy shit tier debaters use, which I thought you are not, is quite pathetic and it also horribly inaccurate.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
No I'm arguing the main point of his attack is to free himself from the Sarlaac tentacles. That's why he used a repulse to begin with. Regardless he's clearly not focusing most of his power on Shaak, even if there's somehow a focal point headed in her direction.

Or he knew he could attack Shaak who lowered her defenses and still free himself. Anyhow either way it's speculative.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
So much of the novel was nondescript fighting throughout the Sarlaac pit, and so much of the game was gameplay (though it's worth noting the Sarlaac played a huge role in the gameplay and quicktime events), and in the comic it's noted that Shaak Ti used the planet's flora and fauna to attack Galen and actually got Galen in a stranglehold via the Sarlaac, so I'd say it obviously played a role in the fight.

Yes but it never actually gave her an edge. In the comic she almost won the fight with the Saarlac, but it ended up being her demise. In the novel Shaak only controls the Saarlac once, which was pretty much useless:

"The apprentice cut off teeth and threw the fragments at his adversary's head. In return she took tighter control of the beast's distributed intelligence and sent its food-seeking tentacles flailing for him. He repulsed them and fought on."

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Shaak Ti made it's tentacles attack him in every source, so obviously Galen would have to work on positioning himself so he's not in a vulnerable position to the tentacles.

I guess, but for a Soresu master that's a minor setback.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The comic also notes that she had the flora and fauna of the planet attack him and that she had the planet at her command and wielded it against him.

Yeah, which begin and end with the Saarlac which I detailed above just how useless it ended up to be. Because Galen was too powerful to be contained by it.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's pretty funny coming from the 2 guys who never had the balls to debate Sel on Shaak vs Ahsoka. So all you are left with is butthurt comments smile

I'll respond to DMB after my exam. kek.

Rockydonovang
lel at shaak ti not being off guardm by the time she puts her hand ups she's literally screaming

Selenial
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Galen then proceeds to remove one of Shaak's lekku indicating the shift in the fight.

"He slashed at her own feet as they spun by overhead and sent one of her ribbons twirling down into the sarlacc's gaping mouth. "Spare me the philosophy lesson, Jedi," he snarled. "I'm only here for your blood." - The Force Unleashed.

****ing lmao.

Selenial
Originally posted by Emperordmb
You do realize that that same type of Force lock also happens in the Ultimate Sith edition between Starkiller and Luke right? Even though Starkiller is displayed as being significantly above Luke?

Just the fact that they're force powers clashed doesn't prove anything when there's no evidence as to how those clashes went.

I mean, raw power wise they're pretty close...




And I'm saying that you cannot extrapolate a temporary advantage in a small portion of the fight to the whole fight. Especially when that advantage is minimal.



Not no chance, a very minimal chance. She has obviously been fine having massive damage to her vital organs, we know that, since she was shot through her vital organs and the fact file says you'd need far more than that to bring her down. A stab through the heart would end her life, obviously, since that's how she died in a deleted scene, but the idea that she would have no idea about the potential angles of his blade is farcical, considering her decades of combat experience. If you force an opponent to parry a specific strike, as she did, you limit their options for a next defence.

And yes, I've admitted several times she didn't predict his outrageous force potential, shocker.




Small scale, compared to leaving an assassin as powerful as Vader alive to hunt the Jedi down one by one. At least if Vader's doing it, he's vulnerable.




Except that isn't a fault in her fighting style either, in regards to duelling. It's a flaw because she wasn't as strong in the force as he was, hence my inability to comprehend why you apply it to duelling specifically. We've seen on several occasions that she doesn't leave herself open to any strikes while duelling.




Dying.



Obviously resisting the Sarlaac would tax his power, but it would tax it less than his rage would boost it. Seeing as you seem so obsessed with game mechanics, I'd refer you to the Sarlaac repulse in the game version of the fight, where he charges his power into a force repulse...

MythLord
Originally posted by Emperordmb
You're suggesting he couldn't have raised his lightsaber in response to her first two strikes because he didn't block them with his lightsaber... but you're suggesting he did raise his lightsaber to block a third strike that he also didn't block with his lightsaber... and for some reason he raised his blade after he already blocked the strike?

What you are suggesting here makes no ****ing sense.

What? No. I'm suggesting he obviously didn't raise his blade and just fvcking keep it there and hold it like that over the course of three words. He would've raised his blade to try and parry each and every attack, which means the final time Galen raised his blade would be when she started to decapitate him. Not after her final strike, but rather during it. Him keeping there for the length it took for Shaak to say three words and tag him twice is actually retarded when in that span of time far inferior Force users have cut through swarms of droids.



You're not understanding my argument, DMB. I said he raised his blade as she performed her last strike. The two things happened almost simultaneously. The only difference is Ti would've decapitated Galen, thus forcing him to lower his raised lightsaber and effectively preventing a full on impalement.



As I said, my point isn't that Galen raised his lightsaber after her final attack, but rather that his attack would have been rendered ineffective if he had been decapitated first which was the likely result.



But Galen's little theory revolves around the idea that Shaak had seen him raise his lightsaber before she unleashed her final attack which wouldn't make sense since then Marek would not be reacting to anything so it couldn't be done by reflex.

Conversely, the idea that Galen did so while she was attacking -- which is what I'm arguing, BTW -- makes perfect sense, but that still does not mean Ti did it intentionally. That is Galen's musings based on him succeeding in impaling her after she failed to decapitate him.



DMB, there is a reason I do not care.



While I admit that is a possibility, given Shaak Ti's faster and more skilled than Galen, as shown throughout the entire fight, she would have been the one to land the strike first, which would ultimately mean Galen wouldn't successfully impale her(might scar her, but a headless corpse certainly can't hold a lightsaber in place long enough and steady enough to fully pierce her) and she would have won.



Again, Galen seems to think that's a desperation tactic, doesn't mean it actually was. She could have simply overextended, Galen acted on reflex and managed to stop her final attack and impale her.



I do think it shows who was in fact the superior throughout the entire fight if Galen would only get a lucky shot-in and Shaak could ravage his body like a rancor and land dozens of blows on him.

Fated Xtasy
So Just to be sure. This is Sel, Zoltan and Myth VS Emperordmb and Syn?

Cuz I'm rooting for team Shaak

Beniboybling
Team 1 is cooler, but Shaak is laem. smile

Ursumeles
We learned one thing in this thread.
DMB can solo Wollf, Zoltan and Sel smile smile smile

Selenial
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
So Just to be sure. This is Sel, Zoltan and Myth VS Emperordmb and Syn?

Cuz I'm rooting for team Shaak

I wouldn't group it like that, tbh. I'm avoiding the more general argument, just enjoying DMB jump through hoops to justify his blatantly false statements earlier....

Originally posted by Ursumeles
We learned one thing in this thread.
DMB can solo Wollf, Zoltan and Sel smile smile smile

mmm

Actually, scratch the above, pretty sure I can speak for myself, Wollf and Zoltan when I say; if anyone actually cared about your opinion on literally any topic, that might have been a decent attempt at bait smile

Beniboybling
Poor Urs. sad

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Selenial

Actually, scratch the above, pretty sure I can speak for myself, Wollf and Zoltan when I say; if anyone actually cared about your opinion on literally any topic, that might have been a decent attempt at bait smile
Wollf actually does tho smile

But why do you debate this, when you prolly debated this sh!t thousand times? (Or at least DMB vs you, lol).
Did DMB showed you the gif btw?

cs_zoltan
I bought Fated with Overwatch memes.

Ursumeles
He only wants your body.

cs_zoltan
That's one thing more than what people want from you smile

Ursumeles
Nice one smile
Not true, tho smile

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Selenial
****ing lmao.

?

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's quite amazing how you can constantly miss the point. QTEs happen after you already beat your opponent. It's like me saying Kenobi could've ragdolled the burning Anakin so the duel must've been one sided.

Anyway can we stop debating canonically irrelevant gameplay mechanics?

Lmao, that comment says a lot more about you than me.



You are just constantly repeating yourself without even addressing my argument. Pretty shit ngl. Are you gona explain how can someone defend from an attack to such degree that she's not even blow off her feet but at the same time gets seriously injured? Sounds f-ucking contradictory to me.



I'm starting to think your mind has missing panels by the jumps of logic you make. Anyhow, as I already said, and as you already ignored (as you seem to be doing with most of my arguments), Shaak was already hit by the attack before she could've even raise her hands.

http://i.imgur.com/rqtEtiX.jpg

I even highlighted it for your convenience.



Right, you are oh so not upset that you are spending several posts to detail just how salty I presumably am. Is that suppose to be an argument against my points or a defensive mechanism? From my experience it's always the latter.

And yeah unlike Joker I'm constantly whiteknighting Shaak every day in every thread...Oh wait, I f-ucking don't. Your salty comments by the virtue of being a desperate strategy shit tier debaters use, which I thought you are not, is quite pathetic and it also horribly inaccurate.



Or he knew he could attack Shaak who lowered her defenses and still free himself. Anyhow either way it's speculative.



Yes but it never actually gave her an edge. In the comic she almost won the fight with the Saarlac, but it ended up being her demise. In the novel Shaak only controls the Saarlac once, which was pretty much useless:

"The apprentice cut off teeth and threw the fragments at his adversary's head. In return she took tighter control of the beast's distributed intelligence and sent its food-seeking tentacles flailing for him. He repulsed them and fought on."



I guess, but for a Soresu master that's a minor setback.



Yeah, which begin and end with the Saarlac which I detailed above just how useless it ended up to be. Because Galen was too powerful to be contained by it.

QTE's are depictions of events that occurs after the opponents have fought for a while. They're reference points for major shifts in the fight.

Sounds like you're trying to redirect.

Given you refuse to even read or address my posts I'd say you're not the most qualified person to judge such a thing. Just a thought.

You mean kind of like how Revan's barrier was torn through by Vitiate and his melted flesh fused with his mask yet he wasn't thrown back? Lmao.

Nice cut of that image where it shows Shaak facing the blast with raised hands. Holy shit. You must be the biggest ****ing hypocrite on the planet. How do you even have the gall to accuse others of ignoring context?

And what's that highlighted portion supposed to be? Shaak Ti? The reaching you're doing would impress Sonny Liston. But to entertain this notion for moment if that was Shaak Ti what's that raised mass attached to the left side of her body which is coincidentally facing the blast? Christ Zoltan, your debating really is as shit as your trolling.

I imagine he's asking you to take a breath and try to calm down for your own sake. You seem like you're about to have an aneurysm tbh.

Given our stance is backed up by the fact that he was being killed by the sarlaac something Shaak herself could sense and your stance is backed up by nothing at all I think anybody reading the debate knows which stance is speculative and which isn't.

That's not saying Shaak only used the beast once. It was saying that she used the beast during that segment of the fight and whenever it attacked Galen he repulsed it and continued to fight her.

He's also being attacked by Shaak simultaneously and that's the point.

If the comic notes that the flora and fauna is being used against Galen in one panel then later uses the sarlaac against him in another then no, that's now what the sentence is referencing. You seem to be a fan of assuming one thing means another simply because it wasn't shown.

Deronn_solo
Dear Syn,

Is it that hard to at least, try to format your post in a way that slightly resembles Forum normality?

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Dear Syn,

Is it that hard to at least, try to format your post in a way that slightly resembles Forum normality?

I'd do it for Skillz or someone I respect ( maybe even you ) but none of these people fit such a criteria.

I'm just going to give Emp a break since he's been going non stop. If they choose to respond to it then great. If not then I'll accept their concession with grace. smile

Deronn_solo
Ahhhhh, then fair enough.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Selenial
I mean, raw power wise they're pretty close...

And I'm saying that you cannot extrapolate a temporary advantage in a small portion of the fight to the whole fight. Especially when that advantage is minimal.

And yes, I've admitted several times she didn't predict his outrageous force potential, shocker.

Obviously resisting the Sarlaac would tax his power, but it would tax it less than his rage would boost it. Seeing as you seem so obsessed with game mechanics, I'd refer you to the Sarlaac repulse in the game version of the fight, where he charges his power into a force repulse...

@Sel: Just to clarify there are some points between you and Emp that I don't know the full context of and thus have decided to leave unaddressed. I'll allow Emp to get to them if he wants.

Potential-wise they were equals.

"The Apprentice is the photo negative of Luke Skywalker. He's been raised by Darth Vader, and is what Luke would have become if he had joined his father. Vader's not a very nice daddy. This guy has been raised to be a Jedi. When the Jedi use the Force, they respect it and don't overuse it. The bad guys - the Sith - keep testing their limits. Vader discovered this person who had the potential to be the most powerful Force user ever. He's up there with the top tier. He's extremely powerful. Vader has trained him in such a way that he just kept pushing his limitations, seeing how far he could use the Force. So, where a normal Jedi might use the Force to trick his way past a few stormtroopers, the apprentice might use the Force to bring down an adjacent building on top of those stormtroopers. He's extremely confident in everything he does. He's been trained by Vader to be an assassin, an unstoppable force." - Insider 100.

Raw power wise Starkiller by ESB is far ahead of an untrained Luke.

If we're talking solely about the game and there's no instance of Shaak gaining an advantage over Galen then you can kind of can. They're fighting before that, the QTE's are just reference points for major shifts in the fight.

So, despite having noted in the novel that his strength was prodigious presumably having reached out to sense his power and having a conversation about it she didn't know how powerful he was? :/

Where are you getting the idea that Galen was enraged in the first place let alone that such a potential amp would cancel out the energy he would need to put into his strength and durability to keep from being crushed by the sarlaac.

Ursumeles
Syn, Hangouts.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by MythLord
While I admit that is a possibility, given Shaak Ti's faster and more skilled than Galen, as shown throughout the entire fight, she would have been the one to land the strike first, which would ultimately mean Galen wouldn't successfully impale her(might scar her, but a headless corpse certainly can't hold a lightsaber in place long enough and steady enough to fully pierce her) and she would have won.



Again, Galen seems to think that's a desperation tactic, doesn't mean it actually was. She could have simply overextended, Galen acted on reflex and managed to stop her final attack and impale her.

I do think it shows who was in fact the superior throughout the entire fight if Galen would only get a lucky shot-in and Shaak could ravage his body like a rancor and land dozens of blows on him.

@Wolf: Same as Sel. I'll only address the points that I understand the context of or that I can blatantly point out as wrong.

Where is Shaak shown to be faster or more skilled? The former doesn't make much sense as she should have logically inferior augmentation. This isn't mentioning the fact that the few times she pressed him during the attack were when had a positioning advantage and Galen was focused on regaining even ground over fighting Shaak Ti. I point this out on a post on the last page. Would you like me to quote it for you?

Given they have a discussion about the subject of Shaak's waning endurance right before I'd assume you, being the ( for the most part ) logical debater you are, would agree that it's the most likely reason. Considering the post I mentioned above addresses this as well I'll be posting it at the bottom of my responses for you to read over as it is relevant to the section of your post I addressed.

_____

"So first off we have the fight starting off with Shaak in a superior position having a height advantage over Galen which allows her to generate a greater amount of kinetic force behind her blows then normal putting Galen off balance at the beginning of the fight.

"She smiled in mockery. "Are you prepared to meet your fate?" Then her lightsaber was lit and she was spinning through the air toward him, striking downward as she fell.

The apprentice simultaneously backflipped and blocked her opening blow. The force of it surprised him, and the recoil threw him backward. His hood caught on one of the sarlacc's teeth, and he tore it impatiently away before the snag could interfere with his defense. Shaak Ti's lightsaber was a jagged blue blur between them. He blocked her as best he could until he had his balance again." - The Force Unleashed.

He attempts to put distance between himself and Shaak but because he does not the place their fighting in like Shaak does he ends up plunging down into the maw of the sarlaac yet again allowing Shaak to gain the high ground.

"Then he jumped. Over her he spun and fell down two layers of teeth toward the mouth of the sarlacc. From there he jumped up again, angling away from her to avoid giving the Jedi the advantage of height, but she was there ahead of him, driving him back down with a series of blows so rapid he barely caught them all." - The Force Unleashed.

Note that at this time he's trying to get back to the edge of the sarlaac pit and out of its maw so meeting the strikes of a person with a high ground advantage as he's ascending is going to be especially hard to counter.

_____

Using a bolt of Sith lightning on the sarlaac Galen is able to regain even ground with Shaak.

"He summoned a bolt of Sith lightning and sent it down, into the flesh of the sarlacc. The beast roared and shook, giving him the opening he needed. Shaak Ti's right foot slipped, forcing her to flip elegantly out of reach of his blade. He leapt after her, swinging as he came." - The Force Unleashed.

As you can probably imagine the fight progresses much more evenly now that Shaak's advantages have been used up.

"The fight progressed around the sarlacc's center rings, blow and counterblow accompanied by the roaring of the beast. The apprentice cut off teeth and threw the fragments at his adversary's head. In return she took tighter control of the beast's distributed intelligence and sent its food-seeking tentacles flailing for him. He repulsed them and fought on.

Down they drove each other, closer and closer to the very lip of the creature's enormous mouth.

They then have an exchange which reveals why Shaak attempted her suicidal move. She knew she was running out of energy faster then Galen.

"You can't keep this up forever," he taunted Shaak Ti as they dueled.

"Neither can you," she said. "You are wasting your strength too quickly."

"The dark side is inexhaustible."

"Your strength is prodigious," she admitted, "but that is your doing." - The Force Unleashed.

Galen then proceeds to remove one of Shaak's lekku indicating the shift in the fight.

"He slashed at her own feet as they spun by overhead and sent one of her ribbons twirling down into the sarlacc's gaping mouth. "Spare me the philosophy lesson, Jedi," he snarled. "I'm only here for your blood." - The Force Unleashed.

This is when Shaak attempts to take Galen down with her in moves that find their mark but ultimately fail. And luck isn't a thing. If Galen hadn't had the honed reflexes he did all the luck in the world wouldn't have saved him. I'm not claiming he blocked the blow out of skill as that was clearly not the case but to claim that Galen only managed to do so because of convenience is lazy and biased."

_____

Given the circumstances of Galen having exhausted energy beforehand having fought through armies of Felucians and rancors to get there ( something that is consistent throughout all 3 depictions of the fight ) and the fact that the only landed blows in the fight until Shaak's desperation move at the end of the fight was was Galen slicing off one of Shaak's lekku, I don't feel such a comparison favors Shaak.

UCanShootMyNova
Funfact: Zoltan was the only one who's responses to Emp I had no trouble understanding the context of or responding to. As always his points were bullshit attempts at ignoring context, misdirection and ad hominem. Congrats Zoltan. You're literally the most predictable and easy to debate opponent here. smile

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by Selenial
I wouldn't group it like that, tbh. I'm avoiding the more general argument, just enjoying DMB jump through hoops to justify his blatantly false statements earlier....



mmm

Actually, scratch the above, pretty sure I can speak for myself, Wollf and Zoltan when I say; if anyone actually cared about your opinion on literally any topic, that might have been a decent attempt at bait smile

And he doesn't even realize that you aren't remotely invested in this lol.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I bought Fated with Overwatch memes.

smile

Originally posted by Ursumeles
He only wants your body.

I want to ****ing play Overwatch with him tbfh.

UCanShootMyNova
Now now Xtasy. Just because Zoltan isn't pleasing you sexually there's no need to vent your anger. smile

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
And he doesn't even realize that you aren't remotely invested in this lol.
DMB or me?

cs_zoltan
Holy f-uck, I shouldn't have read Syn's post. It's pure cancer. I've seen retarded posts before, but this tops them. You should've left it to DMB, you hold him back more than anything.

If anyone was wondering, this is why I don't debate with this retard laughing out loud

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
QTE's are depictions of events that occurs after the opponents have fought for a while. They're reference points for major shifts in the fight.

Sounds like you're trying to redirect.

Still not canon, still doesn't matter smile

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Given you refuse to even read or address my posts I'd say you're not the most qualified person to judge such a thing. Just a thought.

You earned that. So far I only ignore yours and Legend's arguments. That should tell you something.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You mean kind of like how Revan's barrier was torn through by Vitiate and his melted flesh fused with his mask yet he wasn't thrown back? Lmao.

Damn, I should read your arguments more often actually. It's fascinating how can someone be this ****ing retarded. Let me break it down to you:

Force lightning shocks people. Repulse throws people back.

So why'd you bring up an instance where the attack wasn't something that exerts force (as in Newtons) on the subject?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Nice cut of that image where it shows Shaak facing the blast with raised hands. Holy shit. You must be the biggest ****ing hypocrite on the planet. How do you even have the gall to accuse others of ignoring context?

For the sake of my sanity I'm gona presume you didn't actually read my debate with DMB. But having known your mental capacity I kinda know deep down that you did, you just aren't that bright to decipher what was going on.

So let me walk you through it: DMB and I are aware of the panel where Shaak has her hands raised. We argued about it for several pages now. So who am I trying to deceive here exactly?

And as you so hilariously missed it, my point was that Shaak was hit by the attack before she could raise her hand, which my picture shows.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And what's that highlighted portion supposed to be? Shaak Ti? The reaching you're doing would impress Sonny Liston. But to entertain this notion for moment if that was Shaak Ti what's that raised mass attached to the left side of her body which is coincidentally facing the blast? Christ Zoltan, your debating really is as shit as your trolling.

As I'm constantly praised for my shit talking and trolling I'll take that as a compliment. You on the other hand shouldn't what I'm about to say.

You actually impress me. I'm having a hard time phrasing what I want to say here. You act retarded so many times that I feel bad constantly calling you one, it lacks imagination. Who would've thought it's so hard to call someone retarded 5+ times without repeating yourself. Well I kinda failed at that, for that I'm sorry. Still, you are an imbecile, let me tell you why smile

So if that very humanoid figure is not Shaak in your opinion then who do you think it is? Santa? Jesus? I dunno, but I think it's Shaak. Could it be Shaak? I'm not sure...

As for what's "the raised mass attached to her left side" is suppose to be? Well, let's see mmm

Wait I got an idea. I think it might be this: http://puu.sh/tx7MV/871a4a912e.jpg

It's called a Lekku, look it up smile

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I imagine he's asking you to take a breath and try to calm down for your own sake. You seem like you're about to have an aneurysm tbh.

Does it make you guys feel better thinking that I'm upset? Don't flatter yourselves thinking that your shit tier arguments make me feel anything other than amusement.

And yeah, clearly I'm the upset:

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Christ Zoltan, your debating really is as shit as your trolling.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Holy shit. You must be the biggest ****ing hypocrite on the planet. How do you even have the gall to accuse others of ignoring context?

smile

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Given our stance is backed up by the fact that he was being killed by the sarlaac something Shaak herself could sense and your stance is backed up by nothing at all I think anybody reading the debate knows which stance is speculative and which isn't.

Except if he makes an attack that sufficiently powerful to harm Shaak than the most immediate casualty would be the Saarlac erm

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
That's not saying Shaak only used the beast once. It was saying that she used the beast during that segment of the fight and whenever it attacked Galen he repulsed it and continued to fight her.

Novel never notes her using it again, so no.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
He's also being attacked by Shaak simultaneously and that's the point.

Nah.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
If the comic notes that the flora and fauna is being used against Galen in one panel then later uses the sarlaac against him in another then no, that's now what the sentence is referencing. You seem to be a fan of assuming one thing means another simply because it wasn't shown.

http://puu.sh/tx8jk/e581bd3d4f.jpg

mmm

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Funfact: Zoltan was the only one who's responses to Emp I had no trouble understanding the context of or responding to. As always his points were bullshit attempts at ignoring context, misdirection and ad hominem. Congrats Zoltan. You're literally the most predictable and easy to debate opponent here. smile

That's quite funny considering you didn't actually understand shit. Your IQ is literally so f-ucking low that you can't comprehend an image smile

UCanShootMyNova
Holy shit! laughing out loud

So the two masses at top of what we're presuming to be Shaak aren't her horns, rather it's the mass to the left of her body with the two other masses on the right side being her arms?

You're the dumbest person I've ever debated. And I regularly slum through YouTube comment sections.

cs_zoltan
Well I'm sorry that you are so hilarious incompetent that you can't distuingish a narrow "tentacle" from an arm in baggy sleeves. There's no need to be upset tho.

MythLord
Is anyone actually reading Syn's posts? I'm just focusing on DMB, honestly. If he drops out, then I drop out. Zoltan can handle Syn.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
That's quite funny considering you didn't actually understand shit. Your IQ is literally so f-ucking low that you can't comprehend an image smile

Zoltan. Putting all your saltiness aside for a second. Do you really expect somebody to believe the images circled below

http://i.imgur.com/DIU9yCS.jpg?1

are her horns?

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Well I'm sorry that you are so hilarious incompetent that you can't distuingish a narrow "tentacle" from an arm in baggy sleeves. There's no need to be upset tho.

The arm in "baggy sleeves" is to the RIGHT side of the mass. You're claim of where the horns are would mean the entire mass that's supposed to be her body including the "baggy sleeves" is shifted sideways for some reason, this is discounting the extra mass you're claiming to be a tentacle.

Please. Just stop before you embarrass yourself further.

MythLord
The top one is obviously her horn. The bottom one is her lekku, yes. It's easy to differentiate.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by MythLord
Is anyone actually reading Syn's posts? I'm just focusing on DMB, honestly. If he drops out, then I drop out. Zoltan can handle Syn.

Concession accepted. smile

MythLord
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Concession accepted. smile

Sure. I'd rather endure a bit of your false bravado as oppose to running in circles with you. smile

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by MythLord
The top one is obviously her horn. The bottom one is her lekku, yes. It's easy to differentiate.

He's claiming that both the left masses spouting out from what's supposed to be her body are the horns though. Meaning he believes the mass on the upper right is a lekku or a tentacle while the one on the mid right is an arm despite that making no sense as a body can't physically contort that way.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by MythLord
Is anyone actually reading Syn's posts? I'm just focusing on DMB, honestly. If he drops out, then I drop out. Zoltan can handle Syn.

I usually don't, in a moment of weakness I did it tho, and it was so funny I had to reply. But that was the last time smile

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Zoltan. Putting all your saltiness aside for a second. Do you really expect somebody to believe the images circled below

http://i.imgur.com/DIU9yCS.jpg?1

are her horns?

Well they are called Lekkus, and they are more like tentacles than horns, but yes, it's quite obvious really. I'm sorry about your handicap.

I made a quick visual comparison for the mentally challenged smile

http://puu.sh/txahi/3f6ac6daad.jpg

MythLord
One of them is a horn, the other is a lekku. Neither is an arm.

UCanShootMyNova
That's now what he's claiming. If you want to take up the issue you can once I get back from class.

NewGuy01
I've only read half a page of this discussion, but someone here is definitely going full retard. From what I can gather, I think it's Syn? Not sure though.

On that picture, the circled masses are very clearly her head-horn-tentacle-whatever the f-uck you want to call them things. Whoever agrees with me is right, and whoever disagrees with me is wrong and needs help. Peace.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I've only read half a page of this discussion, but someone here is definitely going full retard. From what I can gather, I think it's Syn? It's all of 'em.

Deronn_solo
You guys are too emotionally invested in these shit characters.

Ursumeles
Like you are in Kyp, yeah.

Deronn_solo
LMAO, not even close.

Ursumeles
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9h2w3kcKo3A

MythLord
DC, didn't you once look up Kyp Durron porn?

Ursumeles
LOLWHAT

Also: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/kyp-durron-vs-emperor-palpatine-1697243/

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