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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/world/europe/speeding-in-finland-can-cost-a-fortune-if-you-already-have-one.html?ref=world

Hmm...might just be my personal bias talking (I live in a city where people in the nicest, most expensive cars drive like assholes), but something about this sounds appealing.

I think there should be a limit to the fining however. 50,000 Euros for speeding is way too onerous. Maybe set a max of 5 or 10,000 for the richest of people, and then reduce it from there according to how much poorer you are.

"The thinking here is that if it stings for the little guy, it should sting for the big guy, too."

If there weren't other consequences*** in repeatedly getting traffic tickets, I'd agree that it's sound reasoning.

So while the $274.00 fine for going 15mph over the limit may not matter to the millionaire, losing his/her license will. Should they say **** it and speed every time they're out.

***I'm under the impression that X-amount of tickets = losing license, if this is wrong, then I have no real problem with this Finnish law

Originally posted by Omega Vision
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/world/europe/speeding-in-finland-can-cost-a-fortune-if-you-already-have-one.html?ref=world

Hmm...might just be my personal bias talking (I live in a city where people in the nicest, most expensive cars drive like assholes), but something about this sounds appealing.

I think there should be a limit to the fining however. 50,000 Euros for speeding is way too onerous. Maybe set a max of 5 or 10,000 for the richest of people, and then reduce it from there according to how much poorer you are.

Socialism at its finest there.

Sounds good to me. Why shouldn't laws effect everyone equally.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Sounds good to me. Why shouldn't laws effect everyone equally.

Isn't a flat ticket price the same for everyone, treating everyone equally?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Isn't a flat ticket price the same for everyone, treating everyone equally? Probably depends on how you are defining equally.

You could define equality as being that the punishment should hurt all people equally.

I'm not saying I agree but you could make the argument that it is fair and equal to everyone.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Isn't a flat ticket price the same for everyone, treating everyone equally? No, because its effectiveness as a punishment and a deterrent differs from person to person.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
No, because its effectiveness as a punishment and a deterrent differs from person to person.

Ok so how do you see it:

Situation A: Guy drives 30 mph over the speed limit in a Ferrari.

Situation B: Guy drives 30 mph over in a Corolla.

Shouldn't the fine be the same?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ok so how do you see it:

Situation A: Guy drives 30 mph over the speed limit in a Ferrari.

Situation B: Guy drives 30 mph over in a Corolla.

Shouldn't the fine be the same?

His point is that a $485.00 ticket will adversely affect the life of someone who say makes $22,000 a year and has no savings and therefore it will serve as a deterrent. While someone who makes $750,000 a year and has a portfolio worth millions probably couldn't give two wet shits about a $485.00 fine and therefore it won't serve as a deterrent.

ie, it's allowing the rich to break the law in a sense

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ok so how do you see it:

Situation A: Guy drives 30 mph over the speed limit in a Ferrari.

Situation B: Guy drives 30 mph over in a Corolla.

Shouldn't the fine be the same? And they are saying the the punishment will be equal because they will have to both pay an equal percent of their income.

So say the fine is 10% of income.

Corolla person makes 10000 a year they will pay 1000

Ferrari makes 1000000 will 100000

They are being charged the same rate therefore it is still equal punishment when you approach it from that perspective.

The article isn't suggesting using car models as a metric- it's suggesting using income.

No, I wouldn't advocate giving someone a fatter ticket because they're driving a ferrari instead of a camry. I would advocate giving someone a fatter ticket for being a millionaire, though.

And,in the current set-up with flat-rate tickets, the fine really isn't the same. Brad Pitt and I both get pulled over tomorrow for doing 65 in a 50mph zone- we're both given a $70 ticket. That isn't an "equal" punishment, because $70 is 20% of my weekly income while Brad Pitt gives $70 tips at McDonalds.

edit- Wow. Got ninja'd super hard.

Double edit- I'd like to clarify that I only support this up to a point though. Something like 50,000 bucks for a speeding ticket is obscene even if you're Bill Gates. In addition to making citations a percentage, I'd also throw in a hard cap. So something like, "X% of your income, or up to $2000", etc

Originally posted by Robtard
His point is that a $485.00 ticket will adversely affect the life of someone who say makes $22,000 a year and has no savings and therefore it will serve as a deterrent. While someone who makes $750,000 a year and has a portfolio worth millions probably couldn't give two wet shits about a $485.00 fine and therefore it won't serve as a deterrent.

ie, it's allowing the rich to break the law in a sense

Its a slippery slope.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
The article isn't suggesting using car models as a metric- it's suggesting using income.

No, I wouldn't advocate giving someone a fatter ticket because they're driving a ferrari instead of a camry. I would advocate giving someone a fatter ticket for being a millionaire, though.

And,in the current set-up with flat-rate tickets, the fine really isn't the same. Brad Pitt and I both get pulled over tomorrow for doing 65 in a 50mph zone- we're both given a $70 ticket. That isn't an "equal" punishment, because $70 is 20% of my weekly income while Brad Pitt gives $70 tips at McDonalds.

edit- Wow. Got ninja'd super hard.

I was using the cars as quick way to provide income differential between the two people.

Ah.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Its a slippery slope.

You're a slippery slope

Originally posted by Robtard
You're a slippery slope

Maybe. Honestly if someone could prove socialist would make even the richest and powerful including politians equals. I would be down. However that will never happen. They consider us "everyday people" as Hilary stated..

You're really on the bash Clinton thing now. IMO, at least wait until she wins the nomination before going full force, you might just be wasting your breath otherwise.

I agree with Blax. As I said in the OP, I think this could be a great system in America if we capped it. No one should pay 50 grand for as minor a crime as going 10 over the limit.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Isn't a flat ticket price the same for everyone, treating everyone equally?
A guy who works at McDonalds can't afford to pay a $300 speeding ticket when he has to make rent and pay for tuition. An executive who makes 150 grand a month doesn't even feel the fine and can keep speeding.

A flat rate for fines is as idiotic as a flat tax.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Its a slippery slope.
Not if we cap it at say, 10 grand for the absolute richest of Americans, then it's nothing to sneer at but it's also not going to be some ridiculously out of proportion punishment that doesn't fit the crime. For me, the appeal of this system would be less in punishing the rich and more in taking the burden off the poor, who can't afford to pay tickets most of the time.

I'd agree with this if the ticket was the -only- punishment.

But there are other repercussions, so this seems a bit over the top.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I'd agree with this if the ticket was the -only- punishment.

But there are other repercussions, so this seems a bit over the top. What other repercussions are there?

I disagree with this, I do not think income should be a factor when charging someone with a crime or giving them a ticket. Just like I think race or gender shouldn't factor in.

A better punishment system I feel would be a $50 fine with 50 hours of community service, and pay $50 more a month for auto insurance for 36 months, and 10 hours of jail time a week for a month

Do it again in the next 36 months and the amount doubles in all 3 catagories.

Do it again for the 3rd time in 36 months, the amount triples in all 3 catagories.
This would help safety more than just pay a fine and be on your way.

Originally posted by Tzeentch


And,in the current set-up with flat-rate tickets, the fine really isn't the same. Brad Pitt and I both get pulled over tomorrow for doing 65 in a 50mph zone- we're both given a $70 ticket. That isn't an "equal" punishment, because $70 is 20% of my weekly income while Brad Pitt gives $70 tips at McDonalds.



Most speeding tickets are about $200 to $350. And not clearing the intersection and obstructing traffic close to $450.

Met someone last week who got the latter ticket and is making monthly installments for the next 12 months.

Okay to the people okay with this, well, why not fines based on race and gender as well? Or sexuality? Why is basing it on income okay? We aren't talking about taxes here people.

Originally posted by Newjak
What other repercussions are there?

You can have hour liscense revoked, if its bad enough it can end up on your criminal record.and so on.

This might work though... Crazy fines for minor stuff has worked, like against littering i n Japan

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay to the people okay with this, well, why not fines based on race and gender as well? Or sexuality? Why is basing it on income okay? We aren't talking about taxes here people.

In simplest terms, a $350.00 ticket will affect a black transsexual bisexual man the same it would affect anyone else who is in the same economic position.

Someone making $9.00hr (minimum wage) at 40hrs a weeks makes $360.00 a week before taxes. A $350.00 ticket for going 20mph over the limit will have a huge detrimental effect on them and therefore it will serve as a deterrent to not drive 20mph over the limit.

Someone who makes $450 an hour (eg high end lawyer) and brings home close to a million dollars a year wouldn’t feel a $350.00 fine much at all and therefore it doesn’t serve much as a deterrent, more like a mild nuisance at best.

Now using the scaling based on income, a $17,500.00 ticket will make that lawyer think twice about speeding.

Originally posted by SayWhat
A better punishment system I feel would be a $50 fine with 50 hours of community service, and pay $50 more a month for auto insurance for 36 months, and 10 hours of jail time a week for a month

Do it again in the next 36 months and the amount doubles in all 3 catagories.

Do it again for the 3rd time in 36 months, the amount triples in all 3 catagories.
This would help safety more than just pay a fine and be on your way.

For a minor traffic citation? Jesus ****in Christ. Hell no.

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay to the people okay with this, well, why not fines based on race and gender as well? Or sexuality? Why is basing it on income okay? We aren't talking about taxes here people. Black people aren't able to outright ignore the detrimental effects of a speeding ticket the same way a wealthy person is.