Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Setting: Dromund Kaas

No prep time for Vitiate.

Who wins?

Interesting tbh

Vitiate.

Vitiate.

Vitiate.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Interesting tbh
Because of the weird sex and unneeded sex Vitiate and Traya will have?

Team

Traya is a non-factor, she'll get B-Teamed.

Krayt isn't powerful enough to take on Vitiate on his own.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because of the weird sex and unneeded sex Vitiate and Traya will have?
Eww...

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Traya is a non-factor, she'll get B-Teamed.
Why?

It's not like Vitiate is a Sidious in terms of speed. This fight will be rather a direct clash of force-powers IMHO.

Because she's weaker then anyone on the B-Team.

For christ sakes, shes weaker then Novel Scourge.

Ok, then Vitiate kills her with his Lightning before she can take a step, moving on.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Because she's weaker then anyone on the B-Team.

For christ sakes, shes weaker then Novel Scourge.
She's weaker than Fisto, Kolar or Tiin? Huh?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Ok, then Vitiate kills her with his Lightning before she can take a step, moving on.
But he did not kill the Jedi strike team immediately, not even incapacitated them immediately, huh?

Besides, and Krayt just let's him, huh?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Because she's weaker then anyone on the B-Team.

For christ sakes, shes weaker then Novel Scourge.

Wtf tbh

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Because she's weaker then anyone on the B-Team.

For christ sakes, shes weaker then Novel Scourge.

That's perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've read outside of a LeGenD post.

Okay, okay, maybe that's stretching it a bit, but, she lost fair-and-square to Meetra, who was equal to Scourge in the Revan novel.

Either way, Vitiate will kill Traya before either Krayt, or her, have even a millisecond to move, a non-second.

I'm not even sure Traya can do any real damage to Vitiate without a lightsaber, which she will not havd any time to get out, btw.

Hell, not even Luke would be able to get to Traya fast enough to prevent her from being killed. (Even though Luke would destroy Vitiate)

Team

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Either way, Vitiate will kill Traya before either Krayt, or her, have even a millisecond to move, a non-second.
Speed feats for Vitiate that suggest he can do that?

Also:
Originally posted by Stigma
But he did not kill the Jedi strike team immediately, not even incapacitated them immediately, huh?

Originally posted by Stigma
Eww...

Dude.

Multiple. Bodies.

Think about it.

Dude, he doesn't need a lightsaber to defeat either of them, he only needs his Lightning.

I'm sure Krayt will last way longer against Vitiate, but Traya dies immediately before she can draw her lightsaber, he lolshitcurbstomps her before the battle even begins.

Krayt is powerful enough in the force to make this a lasting battle, but not strong enough to win it.

The only way Traya could be a Factor in this fight is if she uses her force saber's, and there's no guarantee that Vitiate won't immediately break her control over the sabers anyway.

Originally posted by Jmanghan

I'm sure Krayt will last way longer against Vitiate, but Traya dies immediately before she can draw her lightsaber, he lolshitcurbstomps her before the battle even begins.

Um, how come then:
Originally posted by Stigma
But he did not kill the Jedi strike team immediately, not even incapacitated them immediately, huh?
But he can immediately kill someone like Traya...

Originally posted by Stigma
Um, how come then:

But he can immediately kill someone like Traya...

Y'know, Traya stomped 3 council members instantly with Drain :mmm:

What's Vitiate's counter to that?

Three, featless, weak-ass masters, who have never done anything important, and are capable of being beaten by mid-game exile.

Bottom line is this: Vitiate is not going to speed-blitz lol

That's just not how he figths. (and plausibly he just cannot bliitz)

Killing the entire Dark Council all at once, by himself, Nyriss was a Dark Council Member, who was dominating Meetra and Scourge at the same time, and Revan effortlessly beat her, after being drugged up.

Draining a planet while also using and draining 8,000 sith lords to become immortal.

Stomping Revan, and Meetra, y'know, the same Meetra that beat Traya, by herself, after fighting through a Sith Academy, with Full-Fledged Dark Jedi Masters and Sith Assassin's inside.

If Traya can use the Drain-hax then she might win, though I'm still dubious over whether it would work on someone of his nature. Though he could also one-shot her before she gets the chance so maybe I'll go with a 50/50 verdict.

Originally posted by Stigma
Bottom line is this: Vitiate is not going to speed-blitz lol

That's just not how he figths. (and plausibly he just cannot bliitz) ...Mmkay. You aren't getting what I'm saying, he doesn't need speed-feats to use force lightning, dude.

He can kill Traya by standing still, and striking her with Force Storm, before she even moves.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If Traya can use the Drain-hax then she might win, though I'm still dubious over whether it would work on someone of his nature. Though he could also one-shot her before she gets the chance so maybe I'll go with a 50/50 verdict. Using Drain on three featless council members of KOTOR is not impressive, not even a little.

They don't have accolades, either, so that's also a theory going out the window.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
...Mmkay. You aren't getting what I'm saying, he doesn't need speed-feats to use force lightning, dude.

He can kill Traya by standing still, and striking her with Force Storm, before she even moves.
My god. You were the one claiming he'll do that in milliseconds. Proof he'll be faster than her/Krayt?

Nevermind. Actually, I'm thinking Traya strikes him with her drain in nano-seconds while Krayt closes the gap faster than Vitiate can react to and decapitates him. Moving on.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If Traya can use the Drain-hax then she might win, though I'm still dubious over whether it would work on someone of his nature. Though he could also one-shot her before she gets the chance so maybe I'll go with a 50/50 verdict.
What do you think will happen when you throw Krayt into the mix?

Am I being trolled? I really hope I'm being trolled right now.

Yes, he can kill her with his lightning before she can move, while he's standing still.

Not moving, at all.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Yes, he can kill her with his lightning before she can move, while he's standing still..
Nah. Traya strikes him with her drain before he does that. She can do that before he can move, when he's standing there still.

Then Krayt decapitates him before he can react.

Traya's Drain is a joke. Revan>Krayt, Meetra>Traya.

A better team already tried to beat Vitiate, one of them lost their life, the other lost their sanity.

So, yeah.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Traya's Drain is a joke.
Nah. She has a very serious demeanor, while Viti casually runs into lightsabers. He's very amusing.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
A better team already tried to beat Vitiate, one of them lost their life, the other lost their sanity.
Krayt and Revan are in the same tier tbh.

Meetra was hindered by a DS nexus. While both Krayt and Traya will be amped by it.

Yeah, Meetra was hindered.

But not when she fought Traya (I can't remember if Malachor V is a nexus or not).

And if she was hindered, and it was a Nexus, then that means that Meetra still beat her, on her own, while Traya was amped, which makes it even more impressive.

Either way, Meetra still won.

Vitiate will also be amped by the Nexus.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Vitiate will also be amped by the Nexus.
Everyone factors that in. He has almost no feats off nexus.

Not many people remember though that Dark Lords like Krayt will be amped by Dromund Kaas too..

He drained an entire planet and 8,000 sith lords without a Nexus, wtf are you on about??

Originally posted by Selenial
That's perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've read outside of a LeGenD post.
His assertion that Traya will get stomped in this contest, is more credible then your ridiculous fan-fiction theories.

Originally posted by Selenial
Y'know, Traya stomped 3 council members instantly with Drain :mmm:

What's Vitiate's counter to that?
Right.

Vitiate stomped 12 Dark Council members and 4 powerful Jedi with his powers in two separate confrontations.

Originally posted by Stigma
Nah. Traya strikes him with her drain before he does that. She can do that before he can move, when he's standing there still.

Then Krayt decapitates him before he can react.
Is their a limit to your nonsense? Also, you are an insult to your own avatar.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Right.

Vitiate stomped 12 Dark Council members and 4 powerful Jedi with his powers in two separate confrontations. -Thumbz up since I don't have the emoticon-

Originally posted by Stigma
Speed feats for Vitiate that suggest he can do that?
Vitiate was fast enough to react to Revan and Hero of Tython.

@ Sinious

Finally some good points in favor of Vitiate and clarification of his feats (ritual etc.)

Originally posted by Sinious
Once he unleashes his FLS, the fight is over.
Do you think someone as powerful, both physically and in the force, like Krayt won't be able to stall Vitiate's FLS (for example, with his saber) and buy a few moments for Traya to unleash her drain on Viti?

Agreed, finally some legible points from the Vitiate supporters that isn't just barely substantiated wank.

As for how that changes the fight in my eyes, not much to be honest. Krayt wont be dominated by Vitiate, and Traya has some of the best Telepathy and concealment abilities we've yet seen.

Her unleashing drain isn't a win for team 2, but it's enough to put Vitiate on the backfoot that they could overcome him themselves.

Originally posted by Selenial
Her unleashing drain isn't a win for team 2, but it's enough to put Vitiate on the backfoot that they could overcome him themselves.
I agree it's not a trump card.

It will push him back and feasibly let them gain the upper hand.

Originally posted by Stigma
@ Sinious

Finally some good points in favor of Vitiate and clarification of his feats (ritual etc.)

Originally posted by Selenial
Agreed, finally some legible points from the Vitiate supporters that isn't just barely substantiated wank.


Thanks.



The drain is an issue in debates. I personally do not believe that Nihilus could drain Vitiate let alone Kreia. However, I agree that it will keep Vitiate busy.

This is a matter of who strikes first then. Against the Braga team, Vitiate was able to cast an areal FLS+another FL on HoT and charged his final blast simultaneously. He instantaneously casted his first areal attack so unless Kreia or Krayt can unleash an attack faster than him, he will have a huge advantage.

He is powerful enough to keep the duo on the defensive with the same tactic(stalling the enemy with FLS) and can charge up a thunderous blast while doing so. The individuals in this team are more powerful than the Braga strike team's average but they are fewer in numbers so Vitiate won't have to spread the attack. His FLS will be more concentrated and so it will be more exhausting to defend against it.

He stomped every opponent he faced with his fully powered original body which explains why he has surpassed everyone else in TOR era in accolades/hype by a huge margin. I strongly believe that he can win this.

Originally posted by Selenial
Agreed, finally some legible points from the Vitiate supporters that isn't just barely substantiated wank.

As for how that changes the fight in my eyes, not much to be honest. Krayt wont be dominated by Vitiate, and Traya has some of the best Telepathy and concealment abilities we've yet seen.

Her unleashing drain isn't a win for team 2, but it's enough to put Vitiate on the backfoot that they could overcome him themselves.
Krayt won't be dominated by Vitiate? Based on what, miss?

Originally posted by Sinious
Vitiate's DC purge feats lack context and were probably made possible with prep and his Natemha feat is not combat applicable. However, he doesn't need those feats to defeat this team.
Nathema feat may not be combat applicable but Vitiate is capable of draining targets nonetheless.

Also, what do you imply with the so-called prep? What is this supposed to mean? Did Vitiate lit candles or something?

Vitiate is stated to have explored the most sinister and uncharted depths of the dark side, it is likely possible that he have command of techniques that are not norm. And it is likely that Vitiate unleashed a special power to defeat the Sith Strike Team led by Darth Lokess. This revelation came in a medium released after novels and game. Therefore, newer revelations may come as a surprise to some, but they represent Vitiate's capabilities in firm.

Originally posted by Stigma
@ Sinious

Finally some good points in favor of Vitiate and clarification of his feats (ritual etc.)


Do you think someone as powerful, both physically and in the force, like Krayt won't be able to stall Vitiate's FLS (for example, with his saber) and buy a few moments for Traya to unleash her drain on Viti? So, putting up actual impressive feats, as opposed to "Traya drained 3 Jedi Master's, so she automatically wins!" is a good argument, even though Vitiate clearly has superior drain ability to her and would easily overpower her.

Vitiate has the second strongest Lightning in the entire Star Wars mythos.

Jesus Christ, draining 3 random Jedi Master's isn't impressive compared to what Vitiate has done.

Draining a planet, while draining 8,000 Sith Lord's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Draining 3 KOTOR former council member's, that have no feats to their name.

Traya is weaker fhen Meetra, there is no doubt of that fact.

Also, @ Sinious, it MIGHT not be combat applicable, but draining the 8,000 Sith Lords and using their power is, as he didn't use any prep, just took control of them, drained the planet, and them as well.

Ritual or not, the fact that he was able to do ANYTHING to 8,000 Sith Lord's is VERY VERYYYYY impressive, compared to the one feat Traya has, draining 3 Jedi Master's.

Oh, she's also known for, losing to Meetra, on a possible DS Nexus, which amped herself, and hindered Meetra. She's also lost to Sion one-on-one at the beginning of the game. She is just an un-impressive character, all-around.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Traya is weaker fhen Meetra, there is no doubt of that fact..



"Although Traya was more powerful, the Exile managed to defeat her in combat."
---Star Wars: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Well Surik became stronger than her as soon as Traya died, according to some. Personally I never thought of that but it makes sense.

How does that make any sense??

She defeats her one-on-one, yet isn't more powerful then her??

F*ck SW Logic, dude, I'm done.

The inconsistencies are real...

The Exile was extremely amped during that fight.

Vitiate

Originally posted by Jmanghan
How does that make any sense??

She defeats her one-on-one, yet isn't more powerful then her??

F*ck SW Logic, dude, I'm done.
Traya may have relatively greater raw power but the gap wasn't likely big enough to nullify the impact of Surik's relatively superior skills with a lightsaber and her option to severe the bond between them. Surik managed to chop off the remaining hand of Traya and sever her bond with her as well, and these two factors likely proved to be too much for Traya to cope with.

As for the logic, Mr. Lucas is responsible for the mess since Episode III. Anakin Skywalker defeated Count Dooku but failed to defeat Obi-Wan. Great.

Even WITH Traya's advantages, Meetra still won.

She fought through a Sith academy with Dark Jedi Masters inside, fought Lightsaber's controlled by Traya, and yet somehow, Traya is still more powerful.

Not even mentioning the fact that Malachor V is apparently a DS Nexus, effectively making Traya stronger, and Meetra weaker...

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Exile was extremely amped during that fight. Based on?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/KOTOR_II.jpg

...O-Ok??

Meetra Surik being amped on Malachor V makes no sense to me.

Following are the observable aspects of the duel:

1. Surik chops off the remaining hand of Darth Traya.*
2. Traya initiates telekinetic lightsaber combat.**
3. Surik manages to outgun Traya's telekinetic lightsaber combat prowess and severe their bond.***

----

*This loss would have weakened Traya.
**Tedious feat.
***Telekinetic lightsaber combat may have strained Traya even more then her loss of hand and severing of the bond may have proved to be too much for her to cope with.

She grew more powerful after ever person she kills - and she butchered an entire Sith Academy and Darth Sion.

Plus, she has a bond with her companions, which is also amping her.

She used telekinetic lightsaber combat multiple times, and still lost.

Even afterwards, when she tried fighting HERSELF, she still died.

She lost to SION! SION CUT HER HAND OFF!

I don't care if it was a vibroblade! It shouldn't make a difference!

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
She grew more powerful after ever person she kills - and she butchered an entire Sith Academy and Darth Sion.

Plus, she has a bond with her companions, which is also amping her.

Again, based on???

The ONLY thing being a wound in the force does, is having the ability to negate drain from Nihilus, and being able to kill the force.

There is nothing special about being a wound in the force.

They don't have special properties.

You're depressing me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Exile was extremely amped during that fight.

LOL!!!!!

@Jmanghan: I have a feeling you didn't play KotOR 2 at all. Holy shit.

Vrook: "When you returned to us, we saw what had happened. You carry all those deaths at Malachor within you, and it has left a hole, a hunger that cannot be filled."

Kavar: "In you, we saw a wound in the Force."

Zez-Kai Ell: "In you, we saw the end of the Force."

Exile: "But... that makes no sense. I can feel the Force again."

Vrook: "Yes.. you can feel the Force, but you cannot feel yourself. You are a cipher, forming bonds, leeching the life of others, siphoning their wills and dominating them. It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force Sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force. You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force. Within you, we see something worse than merely the teaching of the Sith. What you carry may mean the death of the Force... and the death of the Jedi."

Exile: "But I can feel Force, strongly."

Vrook: "So you think. It is not the strength of a Jedi you feel."

Zez-Kai Ell: "He's right. It's... all the deaths you've caused to get here. You feed on it, and you grow stronger. You're like Malachor... it's in you, it's what you are now. You must have noticed as you've fought across all these planets, killing hundreds, only to grow more and more powerful. Why do you think that was?"

Kavar: "But what's worse is that bonding you have - it hasn't gone away. It's gotten stronger, and the more attachments you form, the more you draw others to you."

Vrook: "And that is why you are a threat to us all. But it is of no consequence. Your ability to make such connections, such bonds so easily are why you cannot remain."

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Jmanghan: I have a feeling you didn't play KotOR 2 at all. Holy shit.

Vrook: "When you returned to us, we saw what had happened. You carry all those deaths at Malachor within you, and it has left a hole, a hunger that cannot be filled."

Kavar: "In you, we saw a wound in the Force."

Zez-Kai Ell: "In you, we saw the end of the Force."

Exile: "But... that makes no sense. I can feel the Force again."

Vrook: "Yes.. you can feel the Force, but you cannot feel yourself. You are a cipher, forming bonds, leeching the life of others, siphoning their wills and dominating them. It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force Sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force. You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force. Within you, we see something worse than merely the teaching of the Sith. What you carry may mean the death of the Force... and the death of the Jedi."

Exile: "But I can feel Force, strongly."

Vrook: "So you think. It is not the strength of a Jedi you feel."

Zez-Kai Ell: "He's right. It's... all the deaths you've caused to get here. You feed on it, and you grow stronger. You're like Malachor... it's in you, it's what you are now. You must have noticed as you've fought across all these planets, killing hundreds, only to grow more and more powerful. Why do you think that was?"

Kavar: "But what's worse is that bonding you have - it hasn't gone away. It's gotten stronger, and the more attachments you form, the more you draw others to you."

Vrook: "And that is why you are a threat to us all. But it is of no consequence. Your ability to make such connections, such bonds so easily are why you cannot remain."


...So, you assume, that "bonds getting stronger"...

roughly translates to... "Bonds make your stronger".


...Wut...

And, even if that is true, it's not proven that those death's didn't cause permanent strength.

It's not just an amp, by that logic, its an effective power boost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtByaOxiwE

No, I get that it gives a power boost. But I don't believe it's just a short amp.

..

Originally posted by Jmanghan
She used telekinetic lightsaber combat multiple times, and still lost.

Even afterwards, when she tried fighting HERSELF, she still died.

She lost to SION! SION CUT HER HAND OFF!

I don't care if it was a vibroblade! It shouldn't make a difference!
She let Sion cut her hand off, which would be obvious to anyone who's actually played this game. Mostly because she flat out says it and then chokes Sion out.

Ant's also correct, and he cited evidence, whereas you gave nothing.

Seriously, you should stop playing Final Fantasy. That's obviously what's rotting your brain out.

She did not choke Sion out.

There is no way any SW character would risk losing a hand.

Restored content is non-canon, dude.

He proved that Meetra gets stronger, and I accept that, but its not just an amp :/

For starters, none of it's canon. Second, Obsidian wrote the story, and Obsidian wanted that content in. Third, Traya is canonically more powerful than the Exile where as Sion obviously isn't. Fourth, the **** does that even mean? "There is no way any SW character would risk losing a hand." is the most ironic statement I can possibly think of. Especially when it has no basis.

Yeah, but it was removed content.

D-Did you really just say KOTOR II is non-canon??

Sion beat Traya in the vanilla game.

If you bought both games for the Xbox, like I did, that piece of removed content can never be accessed.

No one has ever purposely lost a hand just because, why the **** would she want to lose her hand for no reason??

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Yeah, but it was removed content.

It wasn't removed. It was never implemented.

Yes. Surprise, it isn't canon.

The Exile is stronger than Sion.
Traya is stronger than the Exile.
Traya is stronger than Sion.

All confirmed truths. Accept it and move on.

Who in the actual **** cares?

Play the game and find out. And I don't mean on the Xbox a decade ago.

I have, but I've never played it with the restored content.

Also, how the **** is it not canon, when there's mention of it in TOR: Revan.

That's not what I said. I'm talking about how most of what you said so far is proven false in game, hardly anything brought up is TSLRC content.

And you obviously haven't played TOR, or read Revan for that matter, if you think most of KotORII wasn't retconned. Surik existed, the Triumvirate existed, and now they're all dead. If that's what you think KotORII is, than sure, it's referenced.

Team 2.

With drain, superior speed, and exceeding power collectively the team has this.

In TOR: Revan, they specifically talk about how Meetra defeated Traya, and her minion's.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nathema feat may not be combat applicable but Vitiate is capable of draining targets nonetheless.



I agree. I doubt he would use it against the team though.



That may very well be the case. However, Vitiate hasn't shown to be that powerful onscreen. So its open to speculation.

Like I said above though, he doesn't need the context lacking feats here.

Originally posted by Sinious
I agree. I doubt he would use it against the team though.
Vitiate can use any offensive ability in a confrontation. His actions aren't dictated in a versus scenario or are they?

Originally posted by Sinious
That may very well be the case. However, Vitiate hasn't shown to be that powerful onscreen. So its open to speculation.
Vitiate single-handedly eliminated 9 members of the Dark Council during the era of Revan as well. On-screen demonstrations are difficult to evaluate because they keep you guessing about certain dynamics of an event. Revelations in the lore are really telling because they are good at elaborating all dynamics of an event.

ANALOGY: Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia reveals that Vitiate 'easily' defeated the Jedi Strike Team led by Master Braga on his space station. On-screen depiction of this event may give the vibe of a struggle on both sides, which is misleading.

Do also keep in mind that Vitiate soloed an Imperial World (i.e. Ziost) with his powers. He is mind-bogglingly potent and powerful.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate can use any offensive ability in a confrontation. His actions aren't dictated in a versus scenario or are they?




Yeah but why would he waste time attacking with drain instead of unleashing a more potent attack right away? In your scenario, he gives the team a huge advantage.



But he wasn't powerful enough to toy with Revan even though he was stronger than he was when the first DC Purge happened. Someone who one-shots an entire DC should be able to toy with Revan as long as he/she wants. Vitiate is probably strong enough to solo a DC but one-shoting them is just pushing it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Jmanghan: I have a feeling you didn't play KotOR 2 at all. Holy shit.

Vrook: "When you returned to us, we saw what had happened. You carry all those deaths at Malachor within you, and it has left a hole, a hunger that cannot be filled."

Kavar: "In you, we saw a wound in the Force."

Zez-Kai Ell: "In you, we saw the end of the Force."

Exile: "But... that makes no sense. I can feel the Force again."

Vrook: "Yes.. you can feel the Force, but you cannot feel yourself. You are a cipher, forming bonds, leeching the life of others, siphoning their wills and dominating them. It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force Sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force. You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force. Within you, we see something worse than merely the teaching of the Sith. What you carry may mean the death of the Force... and the death of the Jedi."

Exile: "But I can feel Force, strongly."

Vrook: "So you think. It is not the strength of a Jedi you feel."

Zez-Kai Ell: "He's right. It's... all the deaths you've caused to get here. You feed on it, and you grow stronger. You're like Malachor... it's in you, it's what you are now. You must have noticed as you've fought across all these planets, killing hundreds, only to grow more and more powerful. Why do you think that was?"

Kavar: "But what's worse is that bonding you have - it hasn't gone away. It's gotten stronger, and the more attachments you form, the more you draw others to you."

Vrook: "And that is why you are a threat to us all. But it is of no consequence. Your ability to make such connections, such bonds so easily are why you cannot remain."

I forgot all about this excerpt. I remember laughing my ass off about it.

Exile: I can feel the Force.
Vrook: Yes, but you can't feel... Yourself? Does that sound deep and philosophical?
Exile: Yeah but who cares about that when I can feel the Force.
Vrook: No you can't feel the Force.
Exile: But you just said...
Vrook: Cipher exigency illustrious loquacious bond symptomatic derivative wound. QED.
Exile: I feel like you got drunk last night, cracked open a couple of fortune cookies and threw in buzz words from your word of the day calendar and tried to cobble together a decent speech.

What great writing!

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I forgot all about this excerpt. I remember laughing my ass off about it.

Exile: I can feel the Force.
Vrook: Yes, but you can't feel... Yourself? Does that sound deep and philosophical?
Exile: Yeah but who cares about that when I can feel the Force.
Vrook: No you can't feel the Force.
Exile: But you just said...
Vrook: Cipher exigency illustrious loquacious bond symptomatic derivative wound. QED.
Exile: I feel like you got drunk last night, cracked open a couple of fortune cookies and threw in buzz words from your word of the day calendar and tried to cobble together a decent speech.

What great writing!

The Traya version is fantastic though.

KotOR 2 just tried too hard imo.

Vrook says she can't feel herself because she can't feel her own connection to the Force. Its no big deal.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
In TOR: Revan, they specifically talk about how Meetra defeated Traya, and her minion's.
No. No they really don't. It's a foot note at best. If I wasn't already convinced you have no idea what you're talking about, I certainly am now.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I forgot all about this excerpt. I remember laughing my ass off about it.

Exile: I can feel the Force.
Vrook: Yes, but you can't feel... Yourself? Does that sound deep and philosophical?
Exile: Yeah but who cares about that when I can feel the Force.
Vrook: No you can't feel the Force.
Exile: But you just said...
Vrook: Cipher exigency illustrious loquacious bond symptomatic derivative wound. QED.
Exile: I feel like you got drunk last night, cracked open a couple of fortune cookies and threw in buzz words from your word of the day calendar and tried to cobble together a decent speech.

What great writing!
The problem is the Exile wasn't just feeling Force energy, she was consuming it, which is kind of a big deal if you want life to continue. No one ever argued she couldn't feel the Force after she slaughtered confirmed hundreds.

I'm not making an argument. I'm saying he goes from saying she can feel the Force to saying not really 30 seconds later.

It's symptomatic of bad writing tbh.

See what I did there??

Originally posted by Sinious
Yeah but why would he waste time attacking with drain instead of unleashing a more potent attack right away? In your scenario, he gives the team a huge advantage.
Vitiate have the potential to perform incredibly complex actions with his Force abilities. Simply put, he can multi-task with his Force abilities.

Originally posted by Sinious
But he wasn't powerful enough to toy with Revan even though he was stronger than he was when the first DC Purge happened. Someone who one-shots an entire DC should be able to toy with Revan as long as he/she wants. Vitiate is probably strong enough to solo a DC but one-shoting them is just pushing it.
Vitiate could one-shot Revan too. But this was boring for storytelling.

It is also likely that Vitiate regarded the Dark Council based Strike Team as a much greater threat then Revan and subjected the Strike Team to one of his most potent powers from afar in an attempt to overwhelm it swiftly before it would approach striking distance. 11 members of the Dark Council perished on the spot but 1 survived. Though Vitiate tortured the survivor to death.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not making an argument. I'm saying he goes from saying she can feel the Force to saying not really 30 seconds later.

It's symptomatic of bad writing tbh.

See what I did there??

Uh, no. The fact is that she can feel the Force, but not really. What he says is completely accurate, dipshit. You're just misreading things, he never says she can't feel the Force he says she cam but through an unnatural way.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate have the potential to perform incredibly complex actions with his Force abilities. Simply put, he can multi-task with his Force abilities.


Vitiate could one-shot Revan too. But this was boring for storytelling.

It is also likely that Vitiate regarded the Dark Council based Strike Team as a much greater threat then Revan and subjected the Strike Team to one of his most potent powers from afar in an attempt to overwhelm it swiftly before it would approach striking distance. 11 members of the Dark Council perished on the spot but 1 survived. Though Vitiate tortured the survivor to death.

Vitiate did one-shot Revan when he took him more seriously.

However, he still failed to toy with him. If he was actually this uber godlike entity that one-shots entire Dark Councils, he would've been able to take care of Revan with his lightning bursts or be able to keep the fight going as much as he wanted to without getting hurt.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh, no. The fact is that she can feel the Force, but not really. What he says is completely accurate, dipshit. You're just misreading things, he never says she can't feel the Force he says she cam but through an unnatural way.

Vrook: You can feel the Force.
Exile: I can feel the Force.
Vrook: So you think.

Pretty clear contradiction and pretty weak writing. Perhaps if Vrook experienced some sort of epiphany between now and then... But he didn't. It's just weak writing masquerading as deep and thought provoking because the voice actors spoke in sepulchral tones and Avellone is deft with a thesaurus.

Speaking of unnatural, I see you're still upset. A rather long period, it seems. You should seriously change that avatar to the one I suggested.

Also, this:

"Vitiate could one-shot Revan too. But this was boring for storytelling."

Is awesome.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Vrook: You can feel the Force.
Exile: I can feel the Force.
Vrook: So you think.

Pretty clear contradiction and pretty weak writing. Perhaps if Vrook experienced some sort of epiphany between now and then... But he didn't. It's just weak writing masquerading as deep and thought provoking because the voice actors spoke in sepulchral tones and Avellone is deft with a thesaurus.

Speaking of unnatural, I see you're still upset. A rather long period, it seems. You should seriously change that avatar to the one I suggested.

Vrook literally says she can feel the Force. His "so you think" was just him saying "you think you've recovered your connection but you actually haven't" And then he follows it up with "but it's not the strength of a Jedi you feel" aka its not a normal force connection. Since he just monologued about this and they all follow up and explain whats going on in detail, its a pretty obvious distinction that he's making thats readily understandable by anyone giving the writing an ounce of credit and paying the remotest bit of attention. A line can't be confusing if they immediately explain what it means in the next sentence. There's absolutely no contradiction here because there is a very clear distinction between the two sentences.

Look at it in context:

Masters: You're a Wound in the Force. Theres a hole that cannot be filled in you.
Exile: What? But I can feel the force.
Vrook: Sure you can feel it, but you can't feel yourself. Your a bizarre weirdo thats ****ing everything up.
Exile: But I can feel the Force!
Vrook: Not like a normal Jedi.
Kavar: Yeah, your a total weirdo vampire thing.

It's pretty simple.

Sounds pretty weak, Neph. Karpyshyn could do better.

Joking about Drew doing better at anything should be a capital offense.

Karpyshyn would have just stated it outright in plain terms that rob the reveal of it's mystique and excitement. Avellone's writing makes it seem much more mystical and cool than if they'd have clinically laid it all out.

Putting it in slightly vague terms also makes the player feel smart for having understood it, despite it being pretty easily to get. It's a common trick for mysteries.

Give me what you think would be the Karpyshyn rewrite.

Just go reread the Revan sections where the Emperor's abilities and backstory is explained.

I refuse. It's painful.

Then my work here is done. >:]

You've got work left to do on deez nuts.

ohshit