Dragon Ball Super

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Time Immemorial
So exited for this.

http://kotaku.com/dragon-ball-is-getting-its-first-new-tv-anime-in-18-yea-1700616322

Time Immemorial
http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/28/8508011/new-dragon-ball-series-super-akira-toriyama

wakkawakkawakka
I have mixed feelings on the matter. Wonder if Funimation will do a simulcast once it airs.

dadudemon
Oops, this is the original thread.



Saw this reveal a few hours ago: awesome.

bbrem123
This. Is. Awesome.

yungz22
lol it literally made the same thread minutes before you thats funny lmao

we saw the same thing

ares834
Great news. thumb up

So do we know if this is counting the two new films or not? I'd assume it is, but haven't heard anything definitive.

dadudemon
Originally posted by ares834
Great news. thumb up

So do we know if this is counting the two new films or not? I'd assume it is, but haven't heard anything definitive.

I believe it is a continuance of the series after Dragonball: Revival of F.


Which should invalidate all of GT.

Galan007

Time Immemorial
Today is a day of celebration.

#DBZ4Life

AuraAngel
Are we ever gonna address Uub? Ever? And not in a lame way like GT.

JayDaDon
Originally posted by yungz22
lol it literally made the same thread minutes before you thats funny lmao

we saw the same thing

What anime is that in your sig?

bbrem123

Galan007
Nah, I'm sure the films will remain canon.

Evidently the new anime will start out chronicling the 5 year gap that exists between the Buu saga and BoG... And as you know, a LOT can happen in 5 years within the DBZ universe--there were roughly 5 years between the beginning of the Saiyan saga and the end of the Cell saga, for example.

The potential problem I foresee is that, sans Gods(which didn't surface until BoG), there really aren't any credible threats to the Saiyans anymore... So unless Akira goes the GT route and has the Z Fighters scour the galaxy/universe actively seeking out 'adventures'(ie. trouble), the villains might come off as forced/rushed. *Hopefully* this isn't the case and Akira comes up with some original plots, but I'm kind of skeptical right now...

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
Nah, I'm sure the films will remain canon.

Evidently the new anime will start out chronicling the 5 year gap that exists between the Buu saga and BoG... And as you know, a LOT can happen in 5 years within the DBZ universe--there were roughly 5 years between the beginning of the Saiyan saga and the end of the Cell saga, for example.

The potential problem I foresee is that, sans Gods(which didn't surface until BoG), there really aren't any credible threats to the Saiyans anymore... So unless Akira goes the GT route and has the Z Fighters scour the galaxy/universe actively seeking out 'adventures'(ie. trouble), the villains might come off as forced/rushed. *Hopefully* this isn't the case and Akira comes up with some original plots, but I'm kind of skeptical right now...

TOTALLY agree.

The series already had several ass-pulls too many, like Majin Buu and Cell, for example.

And if they DO go the route of the Z-fighters scouring the universe for trouble, it'd just make a new GT series, which would also be stupid. erm

I just hope they can think of a good idea to make an interesting series. But it seems a little far-fetched, because DBZ has already had everything extracted from it that it could. Introducing new villains would make it seem even more forced than DBZ already was.

I'd just prefer them to go the route of telling the story of someone like Future Trunks, after he went back to the future. And showing what happened afterwards, including how he dealt with Buu, if he did, and what he managed to do against other threats to Earth. It would be MUCH more interesting to me, than seeing the Z-fighters train with their fingers up their asses, and do the same shit they've been doing for 30 years. no expression

Time Immemorial
Originally posted by Galan007
Nah, I'm sure the films will remain canon.

Evidently the new anime will start out chronicling the 5 year gap that exists between the Buu saga and BoG... And as you know, a LOT can happen in 5 years within the DBZ universe--there were roughly 5 years between the beginning of the Saiyan saga and the end of the Cell saga, for example.

The potential problem I foresee is that, sans Gods(which didn't surface until BoG), there really aren't any credible threats to the Saiyans anymore... So unless Akira goes the GT route and has the Z Fighters scour the galaxy/universe actively seeking out 'adventures'(ie. trouble), the villains might come off as forced/rushed. *Hopefully* this isn't the case and Akira comes up with some original plots, but I'm kind of skeptical right now...

Much like any other Series or Movie, trouble comes looking for Goku on earth, and he defends it, then it sends them throughout the galaxy encountering more powerful people. Now different levels of gods and aliens.

Like Buris said, he was the 7th god (god of destruction), there are 11 others I'm guessing and there are possibly many different gods with teachers like Whis. Akira has never let us down, he will continue to make good work.

ares834
Yeah, setting it after RoF would make a lot of sense. The multiverse opening up allows for a ton of cool villains that would seem less forced. However, from the sound of it, it seems like it will be set before BoG. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

Time Immemorial
Originally posted by ares834
Yeah, setting it after RoF would make a lot of sense. The multiverse opening up allows for a ton of cool villains that would seem less forced. However, from the sound of it, it seems like it will be set before BoG. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

No clue whats going to happen in a era of peace so I am as well. We know he was training uub but that was already shown in GT. So I'm hoping it will take place after BOG. Makes the most sense, maybe he will get pressured into doing that.

CatL18
I am looking forward to Adventure like Dragon Ball rather than endless power inflation like Dragon Ball Z or GT.

yungz22
Originally posted by JayDaDon
What anime is that in your sig?

magi labarynth of magic..... its a great series

Esomark
Good. Toei's fanfiction series (GT) will be null and void now.

Astner
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I have mixed feelings on the matter.
It's a cartoon.

Ridley_Prime
Originally posted by CatL18
I am looking forward to Adventure like Dragon Ball rather than endless power inflation like Dragon Ball Z or GT.
To be fair, GT actually had quite a bit of both (adventure with going to other planets for the black star dragon balls and such). That may have been why it sucked though; trying to please people with both those formulas.

Astner
Don't worry people I've thought about this for ten years now, and I have it all figured out.

The Battle of Gods and Ressurection F movies are going to be retconned.

The Z-Fighters will encounter an enemy too powerful for them to beat, but he's not just more powerful, he's infinitely more powerful. So Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten and Trunks have to go Super Saiyan Infinity to beat him, but it's still not enough. So Piccolo have to fuse with all the Namekians in the Multiverse (which now is infinite universes) to beat this new bad guy. Piccolo becomes abstract and intangible and gains a plethora of nigh-omnipotent powers with which he creates new multiverses which he then governs as God.

And in case you wonder why the Multiverse isn't destroyed by them simply powering up it's because they subconsciously use part of their power to reenforce the universe they're in.

In the next saga they learn that the Saiyans, while being SSJω, ω was just countable infinite and they eventually have to unlock the uncountable ordinals with inaccessible cardinals because baddie #2 is even more powerful than Piccolo could ever be.

And at the end of the series we'll see Super Saiyan Omnipotent Vegito fighting baddie #3.

yungz22
i have mixed feelings i feel like with every movie or series that gets added into the lore my childhood slowly gets ruined

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Astner
Don't worry people I've thought about this for ten years now, and I have it all figured out.

The Battle of Gods and Ressurection F movies are going to be retconned.

The Z-Fighters will encounter an enemy too powerful for them to beat, but he's not just more powerful, he's infinitely more powerful. So Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten and Trunks have to go Super Saiyan Infinity to beat him, but it's still not enough. So Piccolo have to fuse with all the Namekians in the Multiverse (which now is infinite universes) to beat this new bad guy. Piccolo becomes abstract and intangible and gains a plethora of nigh-omnipotent powers with which he creates new multiverses which he then governs as God.

And in case you wonder why the Multiverse isn't destroyed by them simply powering up it's because they subconsciously use part of their power to reenforce the universe they're in.

In the next saga they learn that the Saiyans, while being SSJω, ω was just countable infinite and they eventually have to unlock the uncountable ordinals with inaccessible cardinals because baddie #2 is even more powerful than Piccolo could ever be.

And at the end of the series we'll see Super Saiyan Omnipotent Vegito fighting baddie #3.

Hopefully. thumb up

SSJGGogeta
Honestly though, I just can't really see how this new series would be successful at all. They need to just come out with new shit, instead of remaking the same crap over and over. I don't see them being capable of doing that, in an entire new series.

ares834
Of course it will be incredibly successful. DBZ is still huge. Just look at the movies ticket sales in Japan.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by ares834
Of course it will be incredibly successful. DBZ is still huge. Just look at the movies ticket sales in Japan.

Well yeah, in terms of just sales. I mean that I think it will be shitty, in general.

Something new, and refreshing that they could do, which would be interesting, is make a series about Future Trunks, and his adventures, after going back to the future.

I think adding a dozen new forms to characters who already have several, and making them so strong that nothing in the universe can ever hope to hurt them, is just stupid. I miss the days when Frieza in first form was stronger than everyone else combined.

Ridley_Prime
Aye, and miss the days when Piccolo and other Z-fighters were actually relevant supporting characters (able to put something of a dent into the main villains, even if it wasn't their final form).

Time Immemorial
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Aye, and miss the days when Piccolo and other Z-fighters were actually relevant supporting characters (able to put something of a dent into the main villains, even if it wasn't their final form).

The age of SS has grown powerful, there biology allows them to keep surpassing the last.

I do miss Piccalo Tienn and Yamcha though, but Goku and Vegeta are the bomb.

bbrem123
Yea I can only assume they go the route of traveling to other universes to battle with other Gods of Destruction/Whis type characters.

We shall see though.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Aye, and miss the days when Piccolo and other Z-fighters were actually relevant supporting characters (able to put something of a dent into the main villains, even if it wasn't their final form).

Yeah, no kidding. Now we have everyone getting one-shotted by chopsticks.

I miss when Krillin could actually KILL a main villain, from getting lucky enough to tag them with a kienzan or something, and Piccolo was almost JUST as strong as Goku, but with regeneration, and even stronger attacks(Makkankosappo). Hell, Piccolo used to be Martian manhunter, to Goku's Superman. But now he's like... Green Arrow compared to the Anti-monitor. Or Nekron. dontgetit

bbrem123
maybe it is time to introduce a new "z-gang"

with beerus and whis as the being. Which is sad the rest are lost but hey if the story is done right it shouldn't matter to much.

Dramatic Gecko
Perhaps Goku and Vegeta can go sit in a corner and train while Goten, Trunks and the other Z fighters can goes on the dragon ball adventures.

carver9
Sigh...people complaining. Just enjoy the new DBZ show that is coming out. If it isn't interesting, ignore it and continue your adventure watching Naruto. The new Generation needs DBZ so that it can be a forever title. Kids don't need to cling to old showings when they can make new series to get new customers/fans up to date. This is going to be good. We get new villains. We can see more showings of Goku, Vegeta, the entire Z world. Questions will be answered. Glad Akira is taking this approach and after this, I hope he continues down this road with making new shows.

AuraAngel
So I just got all the DBZ manga(as in all of Dragonball from Raditz onwards) and tore through them in a couple days(with the exception of volumes 2-5 which I sadly don't own).

It ranks right up there with Ippo, Death Note, and Deadman Wonderland for manga I just adore. It was a blast to read and it really is remarkable how well it still holds up. My only complaint is that some of the fights happen too fast and even then I only complain because I want to see more of the fights in action. If "it made me want more" is the closest thing to a complain I can give it then it is pretty great imo.

Inhuman
Originally posted by Esomark
Good. Toei's fanfiction series (GT) will be null and void now.

laughing out loud

Honestly was GT that bad?
Pan and kid goku adventures in the beginning was terrible, but other than that it was pretty good imo.
Once they got back to the "earth heroes taking down the new threat" It was enjoyable.

Best part for me is when the "gang" is trying to live normal life. Like a DBZ sitcom.

NLa6v8KGQ8E

cdtm
The action was meh, imo. None of the tension, build ups, or explosive action and choreography..

Basically, it's like comparing luke warm product that is modern day WWE with the fantastic in every way NXT.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Inhuman
laughing out loud

Honestly was GT that bad?
Pan and kid goku adventures in the beginning was terrible, but other than that it was pretty good imo.
Once they got back to the "earth heroes taking down the new threat" It was enjoyable.

Best part for me is when the "gang" is trying to live normal life. Like a DBZ sitcom.

NLa6v8KGQ8E

I'm with you on this one.

GT was ultimate-shitty in the first, like... 10 episodes, but it actually progressed into a pretty enjoyable series, once they started making actual villains again. Like Baby, and Super 17. Even Omega was pretty cool, imo. Although, he was basically a composite version of every other DBZ villain. I also liked SSJ4. Especially because it was so unique. Instead of just less eyebrow, more mane, and more lightning, like the rest of the SSJ forms.

Time Immemorial
Lol oh I remember the mustache ride.

Dramatic Gecko
Meh I still think SSJ 4 is too cluttered. I mean the hair and the eyes were pretty cool but wait! He has a tail again. And look! he's grown fur on his bare Lautner chest!

I bet the producer's had to grab the artist's hand like "NO! Stop! He doesn't need wings!"

Lek Kuen
While it's not my favorite thing, I do like that it put the great ape aspects on display again. Since that aspect of the race just stopped mattering all together prior to that.

Damborgson
Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Meh I still think SSJ 4 is too cluttered. I mean the hair and the eyes were pretty cool but wait! He has a tail again. And look! he's grown fur on his bare Lautner chest!

I bet the producer's had to grab the artist's hand like "NO! Stop! He doesn't need wings!"

laughing

BloodRawEngine
Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Meh I still think SSJ 4 is too cluttered. I mean the hair and the eyes were pretty cool but wait! He has a tail again. And look! he's grown fur on his bare Lautner chest!

I bet the producer's had to grab the artist's hand like "NO! Stop! He doesn't need wings!"

Part of the reason the only SSJ4 look that I particularly liked was Gogeta's. The coloration is more in line with that of an actual Oozaru instead of just red for no reason in terms of the fur, and I always hated the use of their natural hair color for the form--really took away alot of presence in terms of power that SSJ forms were known for, and didn't even have anything like a fancy aura to really make up for that like SSG God did (the wild fiery aura was my favorite feature of either SSJ God form), but the fact that Gogeta had all of those things in his SSJ4 is what really helped improve my opinion on his form over just Goku's or Vegeta's, not to mention Goku's fur practically borders on like, a hot pink in some shots.

ares834
Site updated with new graphic: http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/tv/dragon_s/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHgo1oaUEAA0hym.jpg

And a very shot trailer:

QinoGlZP_V4

Galan007
Alternate versions of Beerus and Whis, eh? Very interesting.

I was not expecting the show to expand on the DB multiverse...

bbrem123
I enjoy the attempt to make the DBZverse a bit more complex

Astner
New Bills is fat. thumb down

SquallX
Dragon ball is like Naruto, or vice versa. They have a great cast, but refuses to use them.

Piccolo had so much potential, that it always baffle me that Toriyama just threw him away without a second thought after more Saiyans were introduced.

Vegeta took over as Goku's rival were Piccolo's reasoning for been Goku's rival was so much sweeter.

After the super saiyan were introduced, the z fighters turned to the Super Saiyan fighters and cast.

Adult Gohan was another one that he thee away. Gohan going to school and the dumb things he did reminded me of early Dragon ball Goku. Then he introduced full potential gohan, only to waste his potential just to make Goku and Vegeta be the hero.

I just hope this new series goes back to early Dragon ball and early Z where all the characters were relevant.

Yes, that also includes Yamcha, before the whole vegeta and Bulma cock hold him spiral he went on and never recoved form.

SevenShackles
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

I'd just prefer them to go the route of telling the story of someone like Future Trunks, after he went back to the future. And showing what happened afterwards, including how he dealt with Buu, if he did, and what he managed to do against other threats to Earth. It would be MUCH more interesting to me, than seeing the Z-fighters train with their fingers up their asses, and do the same shit they've been doing for 30 years. no expression

They actually did tell the story if the 'what if future trunks had to deal with the buu saga' in a game called ' Dragon Ball Z - Shin Budokai: Another Road ' which was totally dedicated to it. Not saying it wouldn't be a good show but I find most people who want to see this don't know about this game.

ares834
So the first issue of the manga is out. Couldn't find a scanilation of it, but I looked at the pics and read a summary. It's set before BoG and even contradicts a few things from the film. Looking at it, I could easily see the new arc be a retelling of BoG.

One Big Mob
That trailer has Gohan with the white aura. God form Gohan?

Though probably just mystic but considering how useless that is... now, might be God?

Galan007

BloodRawEngine
How do they expect to get by with Beerus if the series is only after the Buu saga? Was he not asleep for almost 40 straight years? It's not a total complaint as Beerus and Whis have since been some of my favorite new things about Dragon Ball, but right now, it's kinda screaming "plot hole". I'm hoping it's not a matter of Toriyama forgetting or something--he's usually the first to admit something like that about himself, but this would just be asinine. Hell, I'll bet he's forgotten that he originally said he aimed to make any new DB Series star Mr. Satan/Hercule.

My guess (and hope) is that it only STARTS after the Buu saga and progresses through and past the movies. At this point, the last manga chapter has all but lost relevance imho.

AuraAngel
The last manga chapter still works since 10 years later. Actually it kinda makes Goku fighting the reincarnation of Buu in his base form makes sense. Not that the fight was dangerous.

I have no idea why Toriyama wants to ignore little Uub though. I like the little fellow.

Galan007
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
My guess (and hope) is that it only STARTS after the Buu saga and progresses through and past the movies. I think this is exactly how the series will progress.

Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
At this point, the last manga chapter has all but lost relevance imho. Yeah, the final chapter of Z doesn't really doesn't mesh with current continuity at all.

BoG is set 4 years after the conclusion of the Buu saga--and RoF takes place fairly soon after that(within a year or two, most logically.) So by the final chapter of Z(which was set 10 years after the conclusion of the Buu saga, remember), the thought of fighting a Buu-level opponent(which is what Uub had the potential to become) definitely wouldn't have been exciting for Goku anymore, given the events of the films... Buu-level power has simply dwindled into utter insignificance now.

AuraAngel
Well in base mode it might still be fun.

Galan007
As of BoG, Goku's base power was nearly on par with that of his full-fledged SSJG amp, and still enough to challenge Beerus. Tack on the fact that Goku now has Beerus and Whis to spar with(hell, their doppelgangers will also be entering the fray pretty soon), and there is really no reason that Goku would be uber-excited to fight a potential Buu-level opponent. That's a massive downgrade for him, really.

AuraAngel
Well under Goku's training he could potentially pass Buu. Besides it is all about Goku finally becoming a teacher rather than a pupil.

But who knows. Maybe Toriyama forgot Uub. He only had to draw him for one chapter.

Galan007
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Well under Goku's training he could potentially pass Buu. Besides it is all about Goku finally becoming a teacher rather than a pupil.

But who knows. Maybe Toriyama forgot Uub. He only had to draw him for one chapter. I suppose Uub may have the potential to surpass Pure Buu--but unless he can surpass him by a few orders of magnitude(which is extremely doubtful, imo), then he would never be even remotely comparable to Goku's other sparring partners: Beerus and Whis. Ergo, nothing for him to be uber-excited about. Also, if Goku were merely concerned with the teacher/pupil lifestyle, he would have simply placed more emphasis on training Goten--that kid had ridiculous potential.

...Although Goku IS a terrible father who seemingly hates spending time with his family, so it's possible that he'd want nothing to do with Goten. mmm

Lol, true. At this point I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Toriyama forgot he even created Uub, and never mentions him again. I mean, Uub was 10 years old during the 28th WMAT, which means he was born immediately after Pure Buu's death... Which means he was between 4-6 years old during BoG and RoF... Yet nothing about him was mentioned. sad

AuraAngel
Well while Whis and Beerus are more worth while fighters it would be in Goku's nature to think Uub could surpass them. Or maybe Whis picks Goku to take his place as...whatever Whis's job is and then Goku decides to take Uub as his first pupil.

Well in Goku's defense we see at the end of Dragonball that Goten would rather date than train. Half Saiyans for all their potential just do not seem to wanna live their entire lives fighting. Guess it is the peaceful human blood.

Which is a shame. I rather like Uub's design. And he could potentially have been the strongest human ever(which in GT he was by a pretty wide margin) but alas. I really would like to see him.

One Big Mob
Goku also says he doesn't know who would win between them and Mr Buu 10 years after Goku completely and utterly surpassed Mr Buu. Plus right after Kid Buu lost he said they had to train hard in case Mr Buu went evil... even though Goku was a ways beyond him by then.

Goku is generous with power levels to say the least.

The way the Uub fight would make sense is if Goku reverted all the way to base form and Uub was close to Kid Buu level already.

Galan007
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Well while Whis and Beerus are more worth while fighters it would be in Goku's nature to think Uub could surpass them. Or maybe Whis picks Goku to take his place as...whatever Whis's job is and then Goku decides to take Uub as his first pupil. I like that concept, actually. The only problem is that Whis' job is tending to the God of Destruction... And Goku was training Uub under the premise that he would one day become the protector of earth. So that doesn't really mesh with Whis' duties.

...Though some creative tweaking could remedy that, I suppose. thumb up

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Well in Goku's defense we see at the end of Dragonball that Goten would rather date than train. Half Saiyans for all their potential just do not seem to wanna live their entire lives fighting. Guess it is the peaceful human blood. There is no excuse for Goku. He is a terrible parent/husband. stick out tongue

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Which is a shame. I rather like Uub's design. And he could potentially have been the strongest human ever(which in GT he was by a pretty wide margin) but alas. I really would like to see him. Based on his performance against Goku at the WMAT, as well as the others being shocked at his power, I'd say Uub already was the most powerful human.

AuraAngel
http://readms.com/r/dragon_ball_super/001/2831/1

Interesting...

Galan007
^ Nice. thumb up

Interestingly enough, Beerus is the only character in Z who has insta-planet-busted on panel, aside from Pure Buu and RoF Freeza. It's also worth noting that he and Whis tanked said explosion completely unharmed:

http://i.imgur.com/pJxrbrjh.png

http://i.imgur.com/CLWvZSxh.png

AuraAngel
Beerus is such a fun character.

And Gohan on the front might be promising.

Galan007
New "Dragon Ball Super" Preview.


http://s15.postimg.org/u4ixbagwb/image.png

http://s15.postimg.org/fk1ugglxn/image.jpg

...mmm

BloodRawEngine
My guess is those clips are all from the first/relatively early episodes. That's how teaser trailers usually are.

I'm curious though, with Whis being so much more powerful than even Beerus, I wonder how that lady Whis there with Champa compares. With Whis being pretty much the apex at this point in the franchise, I wonder if others of his race/species/whatever are in the same league. You think the rest of the Gods (or at least "destroyers", if Champa is another universe's God of Destruction) look the same as them? I mean, with twelve universes, you can only have so much variety between the same base for design.

Astner
I'm starting to think that Beerus and Champa are pets to Whis and his female counterpart, and Champa has been spoiled and overfed.

Galan007
^ That's a popular theory out there right now.


Another possibility is that Whis created Beerus.

If you're unfamiliar, Toriyama recently retconned Majin Buu's origin in an official interview--instead of being created by Bibidi, Buu has now simply existed since time immemorial as a force of destruction:


Perhaps Majin Buu was Whis' first attempt at creating a God of Destruction..? Perhaps when Buu's destructive rampages became intolerable for Whis, he never woke him back up when he cycled into a period of hibernation(which is where Bibidi came into play), and went on to create another destructor: Beerus..? It's a long shot, I know, but given the above retcon, there are too many similarities between Buu and Beerus to ignore, imo.

Utrigita
It doesn't seem like Beerus has been "made", rather it seems like he has been chosen, just like Whis asked Goku to take the place of Beerus when he died. It's possible though.

Placidity
Some DBZ ranting/questions for everyone:


1. How does Gohan's Mystic form actually work?

I found this post in another thread, which is how I thought it worked:

Originally posted by Astner

This picture explains it pretty well.

http://i.imgur.com/iUWadwll.png

A few problems with this.

* SSJ and SSJ2 are not absolute levels, it is just a multiplier. Base form however is an absolute level (that can increase over time). For example, Base Level is power level of 9,000. SSJ is just 10x whatever the base level is.

* So why can't Gohan turn SSJ and get a 10x boost over his new mystic base form?

* I don't buy the argument that Gohan has reached his maximum potential in mystic form. It's basically saying even if he trained more, he would not get any stronger. But this is the only theory that is coherent. But I don't think this hard limit exists, or at least he has not reached it yet.

* If this "Mystic" level has capped his progression, it is actually worse off for him in the long run. Because by training and achieving the later Saiyan states he would eventually surpass his Mystic base level in the Buu Saga.


How can Goku in SSJGSS form not be stronger than Beerus?

Correct my figures if I am wrong, but in BoG:

Beerus uses about 70% of his power
Goku in God form using 100% looks like he was giving Beerus a good fight.

Also the Oracle Fish character states that Beerus would meet his rival. So it is not unreasonable to say they are in the same ballpark even if Beerus is superior.

Lets say if Beerus is 1, Goku SSJG is 0.5. I actually think Goku would be higher, but thats roll with that.

So in order for Goku SSJGSS not to be at least equal to Beerus, it would mean that the transformation does not even give him a 2x multiplier boost. What kind of weak ass transformation would that be?

I've heard many people say SSJGSS is just SSJG turning Super Saiyan. But the original Super Saiyan form gives a 10x boost, and it turns out SSJGSS transformation is mathematically relatively minor.

And note that Whis says that even with Goku AND Vegeta going SSJGSS that they MIGHT be able to take Beerus. The lack of certainty implies that the SSJGSS transformation gives a maximum boost of 1.6-1.7x IMO.

The reason I say this is because I'm fairly sure two 0.9's ganging up on a 1.0 should be an easy win.

I've read many nonsensical arguments, and it just sounds like a desperate defense. I just think they did not work this out properly when they wrote it.



That is all I have for now.

Galan007
Originally posted by Placidity
* SSJ and SSJ2 are not absolute levels, it is just a multiplier. Base form however is an absolute level (that can increase over time). For example, Base Level is power level of 9,000. SSJ is just 10x whatever the base level is.

* So why can't Gohan turn SSJ and get a 10x boost over his new mystic base form?

* I don't buy the argument that Gohan has reached his maximum potential in mystic form. It's basically saying even if he trained more, he would not get any stronger. But this is the only theory that is coherent. But I don't think this hard limit exists, or at least he has not reached it yet. A few things to consider...

1.) Kaioshin's unlock drew out latent powers in Gohan that he would have never been able to access/achieve by himself...

Elder Kaioshin: "My psychic powers allow me to draw out hidden abilities FAR beyond the limits of even the most skilled fighters" "Beyond the limits, you know what that means?":
http://i.imgur.com/mmR0dg4.jpg

Basically, Gohan could have never reached that level on his own... So once he'd achieved said level, his power was essentially peaked(so far as we know.)


2.) In the original manga, Gohan's Mystic state took the place of his SSJ states...

Gohan: "How do I turn into that Ultimate Warrior?"
Elder Kaioshin: "You turn into that Super-Whatever(Super Saiyan.) Fire it up, just like that."
Gohan: "Just like turning Super Saiyan... Alright, I can do that...":
http://i.imgur.com/Haz8TjG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QtGgg4A.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eQf6Rc9.jpg
As you can see, when Gohan attempted to transform into a SSJ, his power increased astronomically, but he stayed in his base level.

Goku: "I don't believe it! You haven't changed on the outside... You're not even Super Saiyan, but... I didn't know this was even possible!"
Elder Kaioshin: "Transforming isn't everything. That Super-Whatever is just showbiz.":
http://i.imgur.com/OiyntEg.jpg

...Which explains why Gohan couldn't simply power-up to SSJ from his Mystic state and become 50x(not 10x) more powerful. His SSJ state(s) had simply been replaced by his new Mystic/base form.

Galan007
Originally posted by Placidity
How can Goku in SSJGSS form not be stronger than Beerus?

Correct my figures if I am wrong, but in BoG:

Beerus uses about 70% of his power
Goku in God form using 100% looks like he was giving Beerus a good fight. Yes, but base Goku is weaker than SSJG Goku(Beerus made note of such.) The difference wasn't vast, mind you, but it was a difference nonetheless.

I'd say base Goku(BoG)~60% Beerus, at the most.

Originally posted by Placidity
Lets say if Beerus is 1, Goku SSJG is 0.5. I actually think Goku would be higher, but thats roll with that. No need for theoretical quantification--Toriyama already gave us numbers to work with:
Whis=15
Beerus=10
SSJG Goku=6(with the potential to increase as the battle progresses.)

Source

Originally posted by Placidity
I've heard many people say SSJGSS is just SSJG turning Super Saiyan. But the original Super Saiyan form gives a 10x boost, and it turns out SSJGSS transformation is mathematically relatively minor. SSJGSSJ is the result of a Saiyan who has accessed Godly ki, turning into a Super Saiyan. However, we have no clue what the SSJGSSJ multiplier is. It is certainly nowhere near the original/normal SSJ boost, though(which, as I mentioned in my previous post, was 50x base, not 10x.) I'd say it's around 2x Goku's new base, at the most.

But again: hopefully we'll find out more in the months to come(a new Guidebook is slated for release as well.)

Originally posted by Placidity
And note that Whis says that even with Goku AND Vegeta going SSJGSS that they MIGHT be able to take Beerus. The lack of certainty implies that the SSJGSS transformation gives a maximum boost of 1.6-1.7x IMO.

The reason I say this is because I'm fairly sure two 0.9's ganging up on a 1.0 should be an easy win. In DBZ, numbers are moot. A weaker opponent is a weaker opponent--and multiple weaker opponents would be stomped just as easily as a single weaker opponent. That's why SSJGSSJ Goku and SSJGSSJ Vegeta MUST be very close to 100% Beerus' level individually, otherwise he'd own them w/o effort.

Originally posted by Placidity
I just think they did not work this out properly when they wrote it. Well, yeah. DBZ isn't exactly known for consistency. srsly

Placidity
^ Makes sense.

I think Gohan reaching his max is lame though. Basically he can never improve, and won't be of significance any more. As of the latest movie, he is a complete non-factor.

I still can't agree with that theory completely, because its saying he can no longer benefit from any zenkai boost either and there is no known limit for this ability. Given infinite time, a Saiyan would become infinitely powerful.

This theory also implies that Gohan has TWO base forms, which is a little weird. Since he can turn SSJ, and it only applies the multiplier to his normal base form and not Mystic.

It would be nice to work out what his normal base form limit would be. Then we could apply 400x multiplier from SSJ3 (which half Saiyans can achieve). I have a feeling it would be stronger than Mystic.



BTW, who is stronger, Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku or Mystic Gohan?

Galan007
Originally posted by Placidity
^ Makes sense.

I think Gohan reaching his max is lame though. Basically he can never improve, and won't be of significance any more. As of the latest movie, he is a complete non-factor. Elder Kaioshin's unlock gave Gohan more power than he could have ever achieved in a lifetime of training.

Dunno why you think it's lame that he may have been peaked..?

Originally posted by Placidity
Given infinite time, a Saiyan would become infinitely powerful. I'm not a fan of no-limits fallacies. And this only works if you assume the levels of Super Saiyan are also infinite in number(which there is no proof to support.)

Originally posted by Placidity
This theory also implies that Gohan has TWO base forms, which is a little weird. Since he can turn SSJ, and it only applies the multiplier to his normal base form and not Mystic. Only BoG inconsistently portrayed it that way--there's really no way to make sense of it. In the manga, Gohan could only activate his Mystic form--his SSJ states were gone(which makes sense.)

Originally posted by Placidity
BTW, who is stronger, Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku or Mystic Gohan? Mystic Gohan was VASTLY more powerful than SSJ3 Goku. That isn't my opinion, that is a fact.

Placidity
Originally posted by Galan007

No need for theoretical quantification--Toriyama already gave us numbers to work with:
Whis=15
Beerus=10
SSJG Goku=6(with the potential to increase as the battle progresses.)



I think it was a mistake for him to state those numbers so early.

Now he has locked it in, and most likely will be contradicted soon.

Or if he tries to stick with it consistently then there won't be any meaningful transformations for a while. Because even at 2x he would smack Beerus around.

Placidity
Originally posted by Galan007

Mystic Gohan was VASTLY more powerful than SSJ3 Goku. That isn't my opinion, that is a fact.

Hm I'm no expert, but I thought this is widely debated?

If it is that much stronger, I guess I can begin to accept that it could be his limit.

Galan007
Originally posted by Placidity
Because even at 2x he would smack Beerus around. Not really. SSJG Goku>base Goku. So base Goku might be around a 4.5-5 to Beerus' 10. Maybe less. Dunno.

Originally posted by Placidity
Hm I'm no expert, but I thought this is widely debated?

If it is that much stronger, I guess I can begin to accept that it could be his limit. Perhaps it's widely debated by people who don't know much about Dragon Ball..? Because canonically: Mystic Gohan>>>Super Buu=SSJ3 Gotenks>>>>SSJ1 Gotenks>SSJ3 Goku.

Placidity
Wow SSJ1 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku?

I guess I'm one of those that don't know much about DBZ. I only enjoy watching the anime and TFS Abridged is hilarious.

But if I remember correctly, SSJ1 Gotenks struggled with Buu (forget which form), but SSJ3 Goku said he could have destroyed Buu when he was fresh and not holding back. Wouldn't that make Goku stronger than SSJ1 Gotenks?

Galan007
SSJ1 Gotenks struggled with Super Buu. SSJ3 Goku stated that he could have beaten Fat and Kid Buu, but also stated that Super Buu was far stronger than himself(to the point where he didn't even want to try and fight Super Buu.)

IOW: Super Buu>>>>>SSJ3 Goku(full-power)>Kid Buu>Fat Buu.

Time-Immemorial
Yep

Blockythe1guy
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/07/01/dragon-ball-super-complete-showcase-event-reveals-series-plot/

It seems they taking a grand tour to other universes....Get it?

Blockythe1guy
Also, The New Series is gonna to re-tell the two movies which it sounds stupid and confusing.

AuraAngel
Man if we seriously get a universe buster I'll laugh my ass off.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Blockythe1guy
Also, The New Series is gonna to re-tell the two movies which it sounds stupid and confusing.

Wait. What?

...

Galan007

Blockythe1guy
But it might be bad for it's Continuity since it would be a big retcon and fans can be confused by this.

But least they going to a multiverse arc soon.

Galan007
Retelling the happenings of the films doesn't mean anything is going to be retconned.

ares834
So Beerus just destroyed half a planet with a tap of his finger.

NemeBro
Link?

Actually found it myself.

It wasn't a physical strike, you see the purple ki spread and the sound effects are similar to many energy attacks throughout the series.

Oh well, almost got me excited.

ares834
It's a ki amped strike. Just like most of their physical attacks.

Galan007
It's odd because in the 'official' manga adaption, Beerus destroyed the entire planet(not just half of it) with a ki blast(not a ki-amped strike, or w/e):
http://i.imgur.com/GCrMUeWm.png http://i.imgur.com/KyamDEcm.png

Where Super! is concerned, I'm assuming the show's canonicity supersedes the manga's..? So the show's rendition of said events is what we're going with here, right..?

wakkawakkawakka
Not really seeing how that's impressive considering what DBZ already has but whatever.

AuraAngel
Originally posted by Galan007
It's odd because in the 'official' manga adaption, Beerus destroyed the entire planet(not just half of it) with a ki blast(not a ki-amped strike, or w/e):
http://i.imgur.com/GCrMUeWm.png http://i.imgur.com/KyamDEcm.png

Where Super! is concerned, I'm assuming the show's canonicity supersedes the manga's..? So the show's rendition of said events is what we're going with here, right..?

Well both are telling Toriyama's writing without Toriyama doing the art(sadly). I chalk it up to stylistic differences for now until we get a big difference, like Vegeta blowing up planets passively in DBZ.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Blockythe1guy
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/07/01/dragon-ball-super-complete-showcase-event-reveals-series-plot/

It seems they taking a grand tour to other universes....Get it?

Hell Ya

Blockythe1guy
Originally posted by Galan007
It's odd because in the 'official' manga adaption, Beerus destroyed the entire planet(not just half of it) with a ki blast(not a ki-amped strike, or w/e):
http://i.imgur.com/GCrMUeWm.png http://i.imgur.com/KyamDEcm.png

Where Super! is concerned, I'm assuming the show's canonicity supersedes the manga's..? So the show's rendition of said events is what we're going with here, right..?

The Manga was supposed to come after the show. But for some reason it came first before the show.

Galan007
For those interested in the feat: here are screen-caps from the show...


http://i.imgur.com/I9LWupW.png


Beerus taps his finger on the table:
http://i.imgur.com/7NU2mjp.png
http://i.imgur.com/GrFoAxB.png
http://i.imgur.com/XFi4hIf.png
http://i.imgur.com/uJEOo3g.png
http://i.imgur.com/gwZEeKh.png
http://i.imgur.com/jp21VTm.png


That was an energy attack, not an amped strike. Beerus simply used a finger-tap as a means to discharge said energy.

AuraAngel
It is an interesting showing though. Being able to release that much ki with a tap would still feel like planet busting strength, even if it technically isn't.

Beerus is a cool character.

Galan007
Originally posted by AuraAngel
It is an interesting showing though. Being able to release that much ki with a tap would still feel like planet busting strength, even if it technically isn't.

Beerus is a cool character. If nothing else, that feat shows you how ridiculously impressive his ki-control is.

john allerdyce
Originally posted by Galan007
For those interested in the feat: here are screen-caps from the show...


http://i.imgur.com/I9LWupW.png


Beerus taps his finger on the table:
http://i.imgur.com/7NU2mjp.png
http://i.imgur.com/GrFoAxB.png
http://i.imgur.com/XFi4hIf.png
http://i.imgur.com/uJEOo3g.png
http://i.imgur.com/gwZEeKh.png
http://i.imgur.com/jp21VTm.png


That was an energy attack, not an amped strike. Beerus simply used a finger-tap as a means to discharge said energy. Holy shit!! eek!

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Galan007
For those interested in the feat: here are screen-caps from the show...


http://i.imgur.com/I9LWupW.png


Beerus taps his finger on the table:
http://i.imgur.com/7NU2mjp.png
http://i.imgur.com/GrFoAxB.png
http://i.imgur.com/XFi4hIf.png
http://i.imgur.com/uJEOo3g.png
http://i.imgur.com/gwZEeKh.png
http://i.imgur.com/jp21VTm.png


That was an energy attack, not an amped strike. Beerus simply used a finger-tap as a means to discharge said energy.

Thats bad ass, when does the show come to America.

AuraAngel
Indeed. Destroying half a planet with just a tap must take mad concentration.

Which makes it all the more hilarious when he loses his cool.

BloodRawEngine
So I caught the first episode earlier this morning on Vimeo. My only complaint about the vid was audio desync about halfway through. But yeah, aside from the episode itself going into more detail about Goten's day, Beerus's little escapades seems to be the only noticeable difference between the anime and the manga chapter we were given. Not sure if this shows Beerus as being more merciful or even more volatile, or both (considering they tried to have him poisoned in the manga). Either way, Beerus confirmed for still the coolest.

Not gonna lie, I like that they're starting off the first few episodes in a bit of a slice-of-life manner. While I know Dragon Ball was mostly about the light hearted adventure and Z was about to escalating scale of the battles, I think times showing how life away from the next universal threat is a nice way to start; lets us see how the characters are on a day-to-day basis. It seems like it's going to continue on with that while still building up to when its parallels with the films come to be, if the next episode is any indication. Part of the episode is said to be about Vegeta going on a family trip to the amusement park.

Toriyama had said that he wants to at least add some more light and funny moments to his projects in ways that he feels are more to his kind of style these days. We'll see soon enough how that affects Dragon Ball Super in the long run. I'm confident it's bound to do a better job at striking the balance between the two than something like the ParaPara Bros.

Galan007
^ This scene also did not appear in the show:
http://i.imgur.com/KVr2CC5m.png http://i.imgur.com/phSDPGbm.png http://i.imgur.com/Qp5RNFBm.png

...Which is a shame, because it's a great sequence.

BloodRawEngine
Right, that too.

Would've been nice to see, considering 1. The fight scenes in general as of the recent films and such seem to have a lot more attention to detail in the movements and choreography (for lack of a better term) instead of just a lot of repeating frames of blurred punches and kicks, and 2. The only other real bit of action in the episode was Goten and Trunks fighting off a giant monster (which, in hindsight, wouldn't be a bad idea for what kind of fights to show off once in a while).

ares834
Originally posted by AuraAngel
It is an interesting showing though. Being able to release that much ki with a tap would still feel like planet busting strength, even if it technically isn't.

Beerus is a cool character.

thumb up

Exactly. Assuming he does this while fighting, a punch from Beerus could easily shatter planets.

Galan007
^ It's not about punches or taps--those are just 'triggers' Beerus can use to release a predetermined amount of energy.

What I mean is: we are talking about an energy attack here. The same casual tap could still destroy the planet entirely... As could a flick from his toe, a chop from his hand, or a swat from his dick. It's all about the amount of energy he chooses to use--the 'trigger' itself is inconsequential.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Galan007
^ It's not about punches or taps--those are just 'triggers' Beerus can use to release a predetermined amount of energy.

What I mean is: we are talking about an energy attack here. The same casual tap could still destroy the planet entirely... As could a flick from his toe, a chop from his hand, or a swat from his dick. It's all about the amount of energy he chooses to use--the 'trigger' itself is inconsequential.

Yea its pretty sick, I wonder how Bills can use his power like that over people like Freeza and Goku.

AuraAngel
Originally posted by Galan007
^ It's not about punches or taps--those are just 'triggers' Beerus can use to release a predetermined amount of energy.

What I mean is: we are talking about an energy attack here. The same casual tap could still destroy the planet entirely... As could a flick from his toe, a chop from his hand, or a swat from his dick. It's all about the amount of energy he chooses to use--the 'trigger' itself is inconsequential.

True but ki attacks like that one, where the main purpose is to spread across the surface of an object, is one that has deadly potential in a melee.

But we'll probably never see him use it in a melee.

NemeBro
So in all of you guys' giddiness about Beerus' little casual planet busting, which we already knew he could do, did you all overlook the fact that DBZ just got its first non-assisted FTL speed feat?

wakkawakkawakka
^ I though there was one already show with Whis in BoG. Unless there's something else I missed in all of that.

Galan007
Originally posted by NemeBro
did you all overlook the fact that DBZ just got its first non-assisted FTL speed feat? Okay, I'll bite...

Sj_Sharp
I'm glad that both the physical strength and the speed of top tiers DB characters will now be accepted for what they really are, i.e. high, extremely awfully high the first and FTL the second.
Being said that, for the next episode: "Discovering worlds beneath the seas along with Vegeta". laughing

http://i.imgur.com/0CysqSs.gif

dadudemon
Originally posted by NemeBro
So in all of you guys' giddiness about Beerus' little casual planet busting, which we already knew he could do, did you all overlook the fact that DBZ just got its first non-assisted FTL speed feat?

Come on, duuuuude......post dat shiiiiieeet!

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by dadudemon
Come on, duuuuude......post dat shiiiiieeet!

Basically, when half of the planet is explondig Beerus and Whis are already far away from it, looking at the explosion more or less from this point:

http://i.imgur.com/jp21VTm.png

while commenting on the greasy food.

Galan007
Yeah, that's what I figured he was referring to. Just wanted to be sure. thumb up

dadudemon
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, that's what I figured he was referring to. Just wanted to be sure. thumb up

Why can't it just be a teleportation technique? Seems that is the more likely explanation?

Galan007
It's possible. We just weren't shown one way or the other.

As half the planet goes kablooey, Beerus/Whis are already chilling in space watching the explosion, despite being on the surface of the planet seconds prior. That's really all we know for sure. /shrug

cdtm
And if Bill's could teleport like the Kaio shins or Goku, why did he travel in a ship?

AuraAngel
We all know that the best speed feat in the manga belongs to Kid Goku anyway. thumb up

Galan007
SSJ Gotenks' world-circling feat would be up there, too.

AuraAngel
http://view.thespectrum.net/manga/Dragon%20Ball/Volume%2008/dragonball_v08hq_118.JPG

Is it as fast as this? vin

NemeBro
Originally posted by dadudemon
Why can't it just be a teleportation technique? Seems that is the more likely explanation? Have we seen Beerus use a teleportation technique like the Instant Transmission?

Galan007
Whis usually does the high-speed/long-distance flying for the both of them. Perhaps he had a hand in that feat..?

dadudemon
Originally posted by NemeBro
Have we seen Beerus use a teleportation technique like the Instant Transmission?

Notice that there are two positions with both of them being positive assertions:

1. It was teleportation.
2. It was faster than light movement.

Which position is more logically sound:

1. Defying the speed of light is done by teleportation in the series. Therefore, it was teleportation until proven to be FTL movement.
2. It was a faster than light speed feat and it was simply movement.

There's an alternative position to yours: it's teleportation unless you can provide something that directly states it was purely speed.

AuraAngel
The Dragonballs are FTL. Why not Beerus?

NemeBro
Originally posted by dadudemon
Notice that there are two positions with both of them being positive assertions:

1. It was teleportation.
2. It was faster than light movement.

Which position is more logically sound:

1. Defying the speed of light is done by teleportation in the series. Therefore, it was teleportation until proven to be FTL movement.
2. It was a faster than light speed feat and it was simply movement.

There's an alternative position to yours: it's teleportation unless you can provide something that directly states it was purely speed. "Simply movement" is right, since occam's razor dictates we go with the simplest conclusion, or rather the conclusion that relies upon the fewest assumptions. thumb up

We could assume that Beerus had the ability to teleport away, and we could assume that he used this assumed ability, but I'd rather not.

Sj_Sharp
Beerus doesn't know how to teleport, it was made clear in BoG during the fight with Goku.
The same goes for Whis.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Beerus doesn't know how to teleport, it was made clear in BoG during the fight with Goku. Was it? When was that?

Galan007
It was also made clear during RoF that neither Beerus or Whis can teleport:

"Whis and Beerus both wince at Bulma's loud voice, and everyone on Earth turns to see who she's yelling at. "That evil dirt-bag Freeza has come back!" Goku and Vegeta are shocked to hear of Freeza's return, but Bulma yells at them to get back to Earth right away. Whis says that it would take 35 minutes to get them there, but Bulma interrupts to tell Goku to just teleport there already!"

-Source

Sj_Sharp
Originally posted by Galan007
Whis usually does the high-speed/long-distance flying for the both of them. Perhaps he had a hand in that feat..?

I personally don't think it was necessary this time: Whis uses it to travel the universe in a matter of minutes trillion of times faster than light, while, moving away from that planet, in comparison, it covers a distance completely inconsequential which doesn't require such an amount of speed.
Also, when Whis uses his Ryanair technique he is surrounded by that glowing rainbow-like aura which is not visible this time.
Just my two cents.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Was it? When was that?

If I recall correctly, the argument came out when Godku used IT against him.

However, here's a GIF of the feat:

http://105.imagebam.com/download/xObDKolFjNrUYT5Di30lpg/41982/419819630/134.gif

Originally posted by Galan007
It was also made clear during RoF that neither Beerus or Whis can teleport:

"Whis and Beerus both wince at Bulma's loud voice, and everyone on Earth turns to see who she's yelling at. "That evil dirt-bag Freeza has come back!" Goku and Vegeta are shocked to hear of Freeza's return, but Bulma yells at them to get back to Earth right away. Whis says that it would take 35 minutes to get them there, but Bulma interrupts to tell Goku to just teleport there already!"

-Source

Exactly, also.

Sj_Sharp
I hope AT keeps adding feats: everyone with a brain knows that the implied power, strength and speed of DB characters beyond Namek saga are huge and they keep exponentially growing during the series, but it's still good to have some practical feats to show the downplayers. cool

AuraAngel
The best speed feat is Goku catching the Dragonball. Those buggers are fast.

vansonbee
For this series, do I've to watch the Frieza movie? I haven't yet. sad

Galan007
The show isn't remotely close to the events of RoF yet. As long as you've seen BoG, you're good for now.

ares834
Anyway, first episode was really promising.

Hopefully they don't continue to shit on Gohan like the last two movies did.

Galan007
Yeah, if the first ep. is any indication, this could be a great series. thumb up

AuraAngel
http://view.thespectrum.net/manga/Dragon%20Ball/Volume%2022/dragonball_v22_181.png

The Dragonballs are faster than Beerus. >_>

BeyonderGod
Let da fanboys hype.....

AuraAngel
Yeah those ****ing fans. Trying to enjoy something. Pisses me off.

BloodRawEngine
Originally posted by ares834
Anyway, first episode was really promising.

Hopefully they don't continue to shit on Gohan like the last two movies did.

If the intro's any indication he seems to at least have his Ultimate state. For the early parts anyway.

dadudemon
Originally posted by NemeBro
"Simply movement" is right, since occam's razor dictates

Occam's razor is almost never correct. no expression

http://scienceblogs.com/developingintelligence/2007/05/14/why-the-simplest-theory-is-alm/

Originally posted by NemeBro
..we go with the simplest conclusion, or rather the conclusion that relies upon the fewest assumptions. thumb up

Probably a bad idea, actually. Since this is "physics", where Occam's Razor, as far as I can tell, is literally never correct, we should discard the simplest answer. thumb up

Originally posted by NemeBro
We could assume that Beerus had the ability to teleport away, and we could assume that he used this assumed ability, but I'd rather not.

So we are going to have to conclude that Beerus can generate a greater than infinite amount of energy required to travel faster than light, right? Let's not forget the massive list of reasons and assumptions that go with that. Yes, that makes perfect sense and Occam's Razor wins out, again. lol

Originally posted by Galan007
It was also made clear during RoF that neither Beerus or Whis can teleport:

"Whis and Beerus both wince at Bulma's loud voice, and everyone on Earth turns to see who she's yelling at. "That evil dirt-bag Freeza has come back!" Goku and Vegeta are shocked to hear of Freeza's return, but Bulma yells at them to get back to Earth right away. Whis says that it would take 35 minutes to get them there, but Bulma interrupts to tell Goku to just teleport there already!"

-Source

NemeBro, I concede the argument. laugh

cdtm
Originally posted by dadudemon
Occam's razor is almost never correct. no expression

http://scienceblogs.com/developingintelligence/2007/05/14/why-the-simplest-theory-is-alm/



Probably a bad idea, actually. Since this is "physics", where Occam's Razor, as far as I can tell, is literally never correct, we should discard the simplest answer. thumb up



So we are going to have to conclude that Beerus can generate a greater than infinite amount of energy required to travel faster than light, right? Let's not forget the massive list of reasons and assumptions that go with that. Yes, that makes perfect sense and Occam's Razor wins out, again. lol



NemeBro, I concede the argument. laugh

They can't tp, but they "can" manipulate time.

So far, they only set back the clock by three minutes, but that's enough to call into question whether they dialed another power (Time freeze, or time folding forward ala Zoom II..?)

carver9
Just watched the show and Beerus wasn't even close to Whis when they got off of the planet. It's an obvious speed ft and why is teleportation even being mentioned here? Does anyone have scans of either Beerus or Whis using such a technique? If not then the proof is on you.

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
They can't tp, but they "can" manipulate time.

So far, they only set back the clock by three minutes, but that's enough to call into question whether they dialed another power (Time freeze, or time folding forward ala Zoom II..?)

We see them appear in space as the planet blew up. If they used time freeze, the planet still would've been there since they did reverse time and Beerus would've still been on the planet. Reversing means go back, not move forward.

AuraAngel
Just realized BG buried the best speed showing in the manga. The bastard.

Galan007
Episode 3 Synopsis:

ares834
So BoG is actually going to take place earlier in the timeline then. Hmmm. I wonder if they will still need 6 Saiyans. If they do, I guess they are likely retconning EoZ as well.

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