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Both in their prime.

Neutral setting.

No amp/ prep time.

Who wins?

Surik.

Meetra wins, she knows how to defend her mind from a far more powerful telepath and has an exceptionally well trained mind in the first place.

Her precognition, skill and sheer speed would pressure Zannah considerably throughout the entire engagement and Zannah can only stall in return because Meetra's stamina is greater than her own.

Through the Force Meetra would sever Zannah's connection and that is the one thing Zannah is simply defenseless against.

Sever Force requires you to be considerably more powerful than somebody else. I mean, actually cutting off somebody's connection to the Force is far worse, than, say, ragdolling.

That is a fan assumption which is only loosely substantiated, regardless Meetra is more powerful, though I wouldn't say considerably.

Zannah stomps.

Lol @ Meetra's "sheer speed" though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Zannah stomps.

How? no seriously I want to see your mind rape argument again.

Oh and Meetra's in-combat speed is half a second whilst on a DS nexus, against top Imperial Guards she cut down a group of them in seconds, better than your Hero's Imperial Guard feats tbh.

She ragdolls.

Originally posted by AncientPower
That is a fan assumption which is only loosely substantiated, regardless Meetra is more powerful, though I wouldn't say considerably.

Logical deductions aren't fan-based assumptions - just because it isn't written in cold, stone-hard fact doesn't make it false, unless you're claiming that anybody could just ragdoll anyone, with no regard to power whatsoever.

And by this no-limits fallacy, Surik could also Sever Vitiate from the Force.

Cutting somebody off from the Force is basically the most powerful technique a Jedi has at their disposal - and actually cutting off their ability to draw upon the Force in any sort of capacity is only plausible if you're actually considerably more powerful. Otherwise, it makes no sense. Severing one's connection to the Force is hardly a joke - ragdolling them doesn't even lie in the same ballpark.

Oh you mean like Traya did, oh wait.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Logical deductions aren't fan-based assumptions - just because it isn't written in cold, stone-hard fact doesn't make it false, unless you're claiming that anybody could just ragdoll anyone, with no regard to power whatsoever.

And by this no-limits fallacy, Surik could also Sever Vitiate from the Force.

Cutting somebody off from the Force is basically the most powerful technique a Jedi has at their disposal - and actually cutting off their ability to draw upon the Force in any sort of capacity is only plausible if you're actually considerably more powerful. Otherwise, it makes no sense. Severing one's connection to the Force is hardly a joke - ragdolling them doesn't even lie in the same ballpark.

Yet there is greater indication that skill and mastery of the technique is what defines your ability to use it against any given dark sider. Vitiate and the likes are not going to work by the same mechanics for obvious differences compared to general powerful Force Users.

I am not arguing a no-limits fallacy, only that said limits are based almost entirely on the person attacking in this instance.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh you mean like Traya did, oh wait.

I think the Nihilus example would be closer, actually.

Zannah is nowhere near as powerful as Nihilus, like not even on the same page, or rather even in the same library.

Surik also improved after Nihilus's death for obvious reasons.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Zannah is nowhere near as powerful as Nihilus, like not even on the same page, or rather even in the same library.

I didn't suggest that, merely that it would be similar. Zannah has Bane-level TK, which is on a far higher level than anything Meetra has demonstrated. She's unable to properly defend herself from an attack like that.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yet there is greater indication that skill and mastery of the technique is what defines your ability to use it against any given dark sider. Vitiate and the likes are not going to work by the same mechanics for obvious differences compared to general powerful Force Users.

I am not arguing a no-limits fallacy, only that said limits are based almost entirely on the person attacking in this instance.

1. Skill is a matter, yes, but I'm not overly concerned with it because sources have stated that Surik has an aptitude for Severing another's connection to the Force. It's not the skill to use that power which I'm contesting, but the raw power required to actually deny somebody the Force. And I don't recall anybody successfully Severing another except when they were drastically more powerful. For instance, Odan-Urr failed against Exar Kun because he was drastically weaker in the Force, despite his knowledge/skill/mastery of the Force and this technique. The Jedi Masters on Dantooine had to combine their strength to Sever a pre-prime Surik, which is likely because their power (on their own) didn't have that drastic edge over Surik's own raw power. And the Masters certainly weren't lacking in Force Mastery, given that sources claim they have masted techniques which are among "the greatest possible for a Jedi Master" and "the pinnacle of Force Mastery".

2. The person being attacked, you mean.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't suggest that, merely that it would be similar. Zannah has Bane-level TK, which is on a far higher level than anything Meetra has demonstrated. She's unable to properly defend herself from an attack like that.
http://i59.tinypic.com/5bdz6x.png

Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't suggest that, merely that it would be similar. Zannah has Bane-level TK, which is on a far higher level than anything Meetra has demonstrated. She's unable to properly defend herself from an attack like that.

Traya did, too, but despite being on a "colossal geyser of dark side energy", she couldn't ragdoll Surik. Surik also grows more powerful after Traya's death, and both Traya and even Sion (who is hardly renowned for his foresight) see Surik as being more powerful than Traya in the Force (in the future).

Traya > Bane > Zannah.

Traya as I have demonstrated to you once before is better at everything Zannah has done besides Tendrils, which is a Zannah nexus feat. Surik beat Traya through skill despite being less powerful, Zannah herself is not Traya's equal.

@Nova: We aren't discussing hypothetical incarnations here.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Nova: We aren't discussing hypothetical incarnations here.

Surik is more or less confirmed to be eventually more powerful than Traya, and the OP mentions "prime", which would likely be that version. Even if not, killing Traya would still increase her strength in the Force.

That's like saying "prime" Revan, and then discussing a hypothetical ghost incarnation.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Traya > Bane > Zannah.

Traya as I have demonstrated to you once before is better at everything Zannah has done besides Tendrils, which is a Zannah nexus feat. Surik beat Traya through skill despite being less powerful, Zannah herself is not Traya's equal.

Right, Zannah is superior to Traya and unlike her doesn't have a weakness in melee for Meetra to exploit. She can bounce Meetra around, cakewalk her saber attacks and attack her mind or perform other sorcery. Hell, considering how much faster and more power she is she could probably beat Meetra in sabers pretty sharpish.

Originally posted by AncientPower
That is a fan assumption which is only loosely substantiated, regardless Meetra is more powerful, though I wouldn't say considerably.

Exar Kun, Odan Urr. Its not assumption.

Originally posted by AncientPower
How? no seriously I want to see your mind rape argument again.

Oh and Meetra's in-combat speed is half a second whilst on a DS nexus, against top Imperial Guards she cut down a group of them in seconds, better than your Hero's Imperial Guard feats tbh.
She got casually beaten by Nyriss despite help from Scourge. Then Nyriss herself proved to be a fodder for Revan. It shows that Meetra is leagues below top characters.

Zannah on the other hand beat Bane, who gets as much wank as Vitiate and Sidious at times.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Skill is a matter, yes, but I'm not overly concerned with it because sources have stated that Surik has an aptitude for Severing another's connection to the Force. It's not the skill to use that power which I'm contesting, but the raw power required to actually deny somebody the Force. And I don't recall anybody successfully Severing another except when they were drastically more powerful. For instance, Odan-Urr failed against Exar Kun because he was drastically weaker in the Force, despite his knowledge/skill/mastery of the Force and this technique. The Jedi Masters on Dantooine had to combine their strength to Sever a pre-prime Surik, which is likely because their power (on their own) didn't have that drastic edge over Surik's own raw power. And the Masters certainly weren't lacking in Force Mastery, given that sources claim they have masted techniques which are among "the greatest possible for a Jedi Master" and "the pinnacle of Force Mastery".

2. The person being attacked, you mean.

Actually I have seen a pretty good argument that Odan-Urr didn't sever Kun because he was too old and had just spent power demonstrating it to Nomi and Vima. I think he became 'far more powerful' later on. Nomi severed Ulic and he was much stronger in the Force than her, Ben is stated to be close in Force power to Jacen but Caedus severs and repairs Ben like he's a testing rat.

I am not saying there is one truth to the mechanics involved but I am not convinced that it's all about power levels either.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's like saying "prime" Revan, and then discussing a hypothetical ghost incarnation.

I'm talking about living beings, not Surik's Ghost.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Actually I have seen a pretty good argument that Odan-Urr didn't sever Kun because he was too old and had just spent power demonstrating it to Nomi and Vima. I think he became 'far more powerful' later on. Nomi severed Ulic and he was much stronger in the Force than her, Ben is stated to be close in Force power to Jacen but Caedus severs and repairs Ben like he's a testing rat.

I am not saying there is one truth to the mechanics involved but I am not convinced that it's all about power levels either.

Nomi did it when Ulic wasn't properly resisting and was dismayed over his brother's death. Ben has comparable potential but hasn't ever shown comparable power to Caedus minus Oneness.

AP, how do you think Force Sever is blocked then? Are you really suggesting that it cannot be blocked?

Originally posted by Arhael
She got casually beaten by Nyriss despite help from Scourge. Then Nyriss herself proved to be a fodder for Revan. It shows that Meetra is leagues below top characters.

Zannah on the other hand beat Bane, who gets as much wank as Vitiate and Sidious at times.

Nyriss via speed/strength overpowered Meetra on an extreme Dark Side nexus, against Revan she shat her robes when she realised her nexus based power advantage wouldn't save her.

Zannah on the other hand was getting schooled and literally fell over and was going to be on the bad end of a cleveland steamer until Zannah used the insane power of Lake Nath to allow her hax tendrils to save herself... and Bane still nearly defeated her.

Originally posted by Nephthys
AP, how do you think Force Sever is blocked then? Are you really suggesting that it cannot be blocked?

Force Sever is not dependant on 'blocking' it, it is not telekinesis or lightning, it is evidently a very complex technique which just happens to be the gateway variant of Wall of Light, the most powerful technique a Light Sider can use. The mechanics involved are obviously complex, Meetra is a natural master of the technique and is more powerful than Zannah.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nyriss via speed/strength overpowered Meetra on an extreme Dark Side nexus, against Revan she shat her robes when she realised her nexus based power advantage wouldn't save her.

Zannah on the other hand was getting schooled and literally fell over and was going to be on the bad end of a cleveland steamer until Zannah used the insane power of Lake Nath to allow her hax tendrils to save herself... and Bane still nearly defeated her.

Traya lost on a greater nexus, so is Nyriss >>> Traya? A nexus was never mentioned to be a factor in Meetra's loss. Giving it all the credit is illogical.

Bane could have drawn on the same power. Also Zannah wasn't getting schooled, that's a blatant lie.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Force Sever is not dependant on 'blocking' it, it is not telekinesis or lightning, it is evidently a very complex technique which just happens to be the gateway variant of Wall of Light, the most powerful technique a Light Sider can use.

That's not an answer.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Traya lost on a greater nexus, so is Nyriss >>> Traya? A nexus was never mentioned to be a factor in Meetra's loss. Giving it all the credit is illogical.

Bane could have drawn on the same power. Also Zannah wasn't getting schooled, that's a blatant lie.



That's not an answer.

Because of Meetra's skill, not power, on an enclosed platform. Nyriss had a major augmentation advantage going on, I mean ffs she was over-powering Scourge in physical strength and yet Surik was still able to hold on because of her skill. Meetra was debuffed by DK whereas Nyriss was amped.

Read the edit.