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*Season 5 TCW Kenobi (no feats from any other sources)

1. Legends Luke vs. TCW Kenobi

2. Canon Luke vs TCW Kenobi

Battle takes place on neutral ground

If Legends Luke is the one that is Vader's equal, then he can win.

Canon Luke, who's said to be below any council member...would get pwned.

Obi-Wan both rounds.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Obi-Wan both rounds.

Legend Luke wins, Canon should lose.

How is Luke weaker than any Jedi Council member when he defeated Darth Vader and even in ESB made Vader work for it.

Because Word of God said so. Their opinion is more important then yours.

Feats > "Disproven" Statements

The same Word of God tuned down the feats quite a bit, stating Vader was pretty much halfassing the fight because he didn't really want to hurt Luke. I mean, Vader barely even touched the Force on the 2nd Death Star. No Telekinetically throwing stuff all over the place like ESB, or Force Chokes, or, well, anything. Vader left most of his tools unused.

Dave Fiolli can't retcon years of established material writen by George Lucas with his fanfiction

Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
How is Luke weaker than any Jedi Council member when he defeated Darth Vader and even in ESB made Vader work for it.

I was looking for a kind of swordfighting that was reminiscent of what was in the movies that we'd already done, but a more energised version of it, because we've actually never seen real Jedis at work, we'd only seen - you know - old men and crippled, half-droid, half men and young boys that had learned form these people. So, to see a Jedi fighting in the prime of the Jedi, I wanted it to be a much more energetic and faster version of what we've been doing.

Lucas also stated PT Era to be Te Golden Age of Jedi in terms of dueling skills.

Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
Dave Fiolli can't retcon years of established material writen by George Lucas with his fanfiction

Yeah, none should do that. But in that case, Filoni only confirms Lucas' way of thinking about that.

So yes, canon Luke would be defeated by Kenobi without too much effort.
EU Luke is a diffetent story though.

Well the PT was the golden age of swordfighting, but aside from that I don't recall Lucas ever saying or agreeing with what Fiolli said

Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
Well the PT was the golden age of swordfighting, but aside from that I don't recall Lucas ever saying or agreeing with what Fiolli said

Lucas said ROTJ Luke was only half trained and not equipped to take on Vader. Filoni took it a step further saying any Council Member would take Rotj Luke.

Don't forget Filoni was Lucas's protoge, so 9 times out of 10 what he says will be in line with how Lucas feels.

even ignoring EU all together in ESB Luke make Vader put legitiment effort into beating him. and RoTJ Lule > ESB Luke (by a big margin). Does that mean nothing

replace Luke with Coleman Trebor for example in ESB and it would be a curbstomp

Filoni's quotes could apply to the canon ones but definitely not the Legends fights.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Because Word of God said so. Their opinion is more important then yours. Dave Filoni is not word of god, and nothing he says is remotely Canon.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Dave Filoni is not word of god, and nothing he says is remotely Canon.

He isn't even part of the Story Group. What he says can only be relevant to his own works.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
He isn't even part of the Story Group. What he says can only be relevant to his own works. Of which neither Luke nor Vader are a part of.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Dave Filoni is not word of god, and nothing he says is remotely Canon.


LOL

He's a high ranking story teller in both the Old and New Canon.


Originally posted by Nargaroth
He isn't even part of the Story Group. What he says can only be relevant to his own works.


You're right. He's not ON the story group. The story group actually ASKS him when it comes to the Force and Force powers. Because he learned it all directly from Lucas. He literally spent years and years with him.

That's just fact. You guys need to stop crying about it.

Oh and may I remind you all Lucas was the first to say that ROTJ Luke was only Half Trained and NOT a match for ROTJ Vader.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
LOL

He's a high ranking story teller in both the Old and New Canon.

You're right. He's not ON the story group. The story group actually ASKS him when it comes to the Force and Force powers. Because he learned it all directly from Lucas. He literally spent years and years with him.

That's just fact. You guys need to stop crying about it.

Oh and may I remind you all Lucas was the first to say that ROTJ Luke was only Half Trained and NOT a match for ROTJ Vader. To be quite honest he could be Kathleen Kennedy for all I care. What he is offering is an opinion, a well-informed opinion perhaps but an opinion nonetheless. Maybe when the next Vader novel is written, or when the next Luke novel is written, the writer will come to Dave and ask for this professional and well-informed opinion of his.

But until they do and until it's implemented in Canon. It's not Canon.

The only things that are canon are the movies, TCW, Rebels and all new published Star Wars material. Not even statements from George Lucas are Canon anymore.

Given that, the only material we should treat as fact when discussing/debating Canon is strictly that. Not an opinion from Dave that may or may not be reflected in new material.

^ That's fine, but just plain out ignoring both Lucas and Filoni, simply because you don't like what they're saying, or because you'd rather stick to canon writers with much lower authority, is just kidding yourself.

The new canon may take a different approach, and I hope it does. If a new Canon novel states ROTJ Luke =/> ROTJ Vader I will be the first one jumping up and down about it. But until it does Lucas's and Filoni's comments are the highest authorities in canon (new and old) to discuss Luke's prowess as of ROTJ.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ That's fine, but just plain out ignoring both Lucas and Filoni, simply because you don't like what they're saying, or because you'd rather stick to canon writers with much lower authority, is just kidding yourself.

The new canon may take a different approach, and I hope it does. If a new Canon novel states ROTJ Luke =/> ROTJ Vader I will be the first one jumping up and down about it. But until it does Lucas's and Filoni's comments are the highest authorities in canon (new and old) to discuss Luke's prowess as of ROTJ.

^Yup. People can say 'oh its just an opinion' but its an opinion that's more well informed than all of us on these boards combined.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ That's fine, but just plain out ignoring both Lucas and Filoni, simply because you don't like what they're saying, or because you'd rather stick to canon writers with much lower authority, is just kidding yourself.

The new canon may take a different approach, and I hope it does. If a new Canon novel states ROTJ Luke =/> ROTJ Vader I will be the first one jumping up and down about it. But until it does Lucas's and Filoni's comments are the highest authorities in canon (new and old) to discuss Luke's prowess as of ROTJ. I certainly understand that, but at this point I'm not going to speculate, its certainly an indication of where Canon Luke's abilities might go, but it raises a lot of questions, so I'll wait until Aftermath tbh. Luke as per Legends material takes this though.

EDIT: I'd also say that we shouldn't assume everyone will listen to Dave in this respect, when really nobody listened to George...

http://i.imgur.com/ch7MW6P.jpg

Yoda actually stated that Luke needed no more training and that he must face and defeat his father. Vader stated that Luke skills are complete.

Yoda, clearly (as Obi wan did) could have continued to communicate and train Luke as a force ghost if he wanted.

For Lucas's and Filoni's to make such comments is beyond stupid since the script directly contradicts those lines of thoughts. Lucas clearly wanted everyone to feel that Luke had become a Jedi capable of facing Vader.

LOL, you broke the page.