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Luke is prime tbh. Fight takes place on Coruscant. Force Only. No sabers.

http://i.imgur.com/7drHiqr.gif

COME ON LOSERS POST ALREADY

Well I haven't finished Ziost yet, but I'm going to go with 200% of Sidious Luke.

Luke in similar fashion to his fight with the Hidden One.

Vitiate.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well I haven't finished Ziost yet, but I'm going to go with 200% of Sidious Luke.
Luke Skywalker was never this strong.

Can Luke actually do anything to Spirit Vitiate?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Can Luke actually do anything to Spirit Vitiate? I guess he could trap him in a Wall of Light...Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Luke Skywalker was never this strong. Are you aware of Prime Luke's capabilities?

Darth Marr conveys a message to Lana Beniko and some others to evacuate Ziost because Vitiate cannot be restrained without a form.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I guess he could trap him in a Wall of Light.
Profiled.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I guess he could trap him in a Wall of Light...
Prove it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Are you aware of Prime Luke's capabilities?
Yes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Marr conveys a message to Lana Beniko and some others to evacuate Ziost because Vitiate cannot be restrained without a form. Cause dark siders can't use Wall of Light... and none of them are strong enough.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Prove it.The same technique was used successfully against the spirit of Exar Kun, twice. The Sith Emperor is a spirit, therefore it can be used against him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cause dark siders can't use Wall of Light.
http://apollo-na-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/1424025936686/you-dont-say-FB.jpg

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cause dark siders can't use Wall of Light... and none of them are strong enough.
Single Jedi cannot perform Wall of Light.

No, Vitiate cannot be restrained or countered without a form. Simple.

Does Luke know Wall of Light?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Single Jedi cannot perform Wall of Light.
Kyle Katarn?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Single Jedi cannot perform Wall of Light.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Kyle Katarn?
Quote?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Quote?
He Wall of Light'ed Jerec, who was clocking around Mortis level.
IIRC circumstances went into it, but it can be done given the proper PIS.

Nomi Sunrider..

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The same technique was used successfully against the spirit of Exar Kun, twice. The Sith Emperor is a spirit, therefore it can be used against him.

You must be tired of posting this nonsensical defeated argument. But lets have another laugh at your expense. Prove the wall of light affects every kind of sith spirit in a similar fashion, since we've all proven vitiate's spirit<><exar kun's spirit.

Originally posted by psmith81992
You must be tired of posting this nonsensical defeated argument. But lets have another laugh at your expense. Prove the wall of light affects every kind of sith spirit in a similar fashion, since we've all proven vitiate's spirit<><exar kun's spirit. As I recall, you gave up on that argument, respond to my points on the subject and I'll consider fulfilling this request.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate is far more powerful then Exar Kun.Luke Skywalker is twice as powerful as Darth Sidious. And yes he realise that potential, hence why he has some of the most impressive and unprecedented Force showings in mythos.He has demonstrated ability in the technique, and considering lesser Force users such as Nomi Sunrider and Kyle Katarn have done so, I see no reason to believe Luke would not be capable. No there is no guarantee, but I was initially responding to Neph's question:

Can Luke actually do anything to Spirit Vitiate?

A wall of light would effect him, so yes there is something he can do. Its questionable whether it would work. But considering how much raw power Luke possesses, I'd say its a strong possibility.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
As I recall, you gave up on that argument, respond to my points on the subject and I'll consider fulfilling this request.

No, we pretty much agreed you'd just keep on posting the same nonsense until you were red in the face and decided to move on.


LOL. Prove either of those.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Luke Skywalker is twice as powerful as Darth Sidious. And yes he realise that potential,
That is (canon) Darth Sidious, and such potential is implied only.

Sidious's Dark Empire incarnation is much stronger.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
hence why he has some of the most impressive and unprecedented Force showings in mythos.
Same is true for Vitiate.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He has demonstrated ability in the technique, and considering lesser Force users such as Nomi Sunrider and Kyle Katarn have done so, I see no reason to believe Luke would not be capable.
Lesser Force-users can be gifted in the use of a talent. For example, Bastilla Shan was gifted in the use of Battle Meditation and unrivaled in its demonstration.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No there is no guarantee, but I was initially responding to Neph's question:

Can Luke actually do anything to Spirit Vitiate?

A wall of light would effect him, so yes there is something he can do. Its questionable whether it would work. But considering how much raw power Luke possesses, I'd say its a strong possibility.
Vitiate have grown in power for centuries. I really doubt that a lone mortal can match his raw power.

For elaboration:

"The Dread Masters changed Oricon. Even their combined power is insignificant compared to the Emperor."

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan

A single Dread Master is a very powerful Force-user. Combined, they can destroy entire fleets and more. But compared to Vitiate....

Luke easily

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
*snip*If you wanna argue the Sith Emperor more than twice as powerful as ROTJ Sidious then have fun.

But anyway, neither Kyle Katarn nor Nomi Sunrider were noted to have any special proficiency for wall of light, and ultimately considering Luke was capable of the ability, it would be merely a matter of strength, with Luke has in abundance.

Simply put that stance is extremely unlikely, and the logic is shaky at best.

Luke pwns. Taking out a spirit being is well within the capabilities of the strongest Lightsider in the entire EU.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Luke easily
Bullshit.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Luke pwns. Taking out a spirit being is well within the capabilities of the strongest Lightsider in the entire EU.
Don't be ridiculous.

Vitiate is so powerful that he can destroy/consume an entire world.

---

Exar Kun subdued Luke (NJO). Comparatively, Lord Nyax outgunned an even stronger incarnation of Luke, the incarnation that influenced a Vong blackhole.

2nd strongest lightsider tbh

Anyway, to answer the thread itself I'm currently waiting on confirmation about the Emperor's abilities in this form. If he were truly able to unleash planetary-level power upon enemies then why did he not obliterate the protagonists? I know he says that he thinks its more amusing to let them live by I think thats obviously bs from a dude who just got ass-whooped by them.

Speaking of which, on Ziost he only challenges the protags while possessing people. Can he fight someone as a spirit? Or maybe splitting himself up across so many people took all his energy? But again, afterwards? Well afterwards he annihilates Ziost so maybe he did reach godlike heights in his spirit form.

So, I dunno. If he can attack Luke with something on the scale of Ziost, I really doubt Luke is surviving.

What I'm wondering is if Ziost shared the exact same fate with Natemha.

If Luke cannot harm the formless sith, Vitiate would the time to unleash extremely devastating powers(like annihilating a planet). So this depends on what Luke could do to him or else he will die with everyone else on Coruscant.

I think its a question of whether Luke could one shot him with a wall of light, he may need to weaken him first, which he may simply be unable to do.

Originally posted by ILS
Nomi Sunrider..

Or Surik. Vrook Lamar, Zez Kai El, whatever the other one was called and more.

Sever force is binding someone to a wall of Light.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I think its a question of whether Luke could one shot him with a wall of light, he may need to weaken him first, which he may simply be unable to do.

No. The answer is no to Luke one-shotting him. Lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No. The answer is no to Luke one-shotting him. Lol.

So what's your evidence to prove Vitiate can survive a force power that's literaly unsurvivable?

Exar Kun brushed it off.

But please, prove that Wall of Light is unsurvivable. Because that's complete bullshit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Exar Kun brushed it off.

But please, prove that Wall of Light is unsurvivable. Because that's complete bullshit.

When? He was destroyed by it.

Prove that it's not, no one has ever actually survived one and its quoted as the most destructive light side power imaginable....

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anyway, to answer the thread itself I'm currently waiting on confirmation about the Emperor's abilities in this form. If he were truly able to unleash planetary-level power upon enemies then why did he not obliterate the protagonists? I know he says that he thinks its more amusing to let them live by I think thats obviously bs from a dude who just got ass-whooped by them.

Speaking of which, on Ziost he only challenges the protags while possessing people. Can he fight someone as a spirit? Or maybe splitting himself up across so many people took all his energy? But again, afterwards? Well afterwards he annihilates Ziost so maybe he did reach godlike heights in his spirit form.

So, I dunno. If he can attack Luke with something on the scale of Ziost, I really doubt Luke is surviving.
Because Vitiate had been utilizing his power to possess all living beings on Ziost, which is a tremendously tedious task. The possessed beings retained their vulnerabilities however.

For example, before Vitiate sent a group of possessed hosts charging towards the (PC) protagonist, Theron Shan had configured a core machine to unleash powerful bursts of electricity that took out several of the Vitiate's possessed hosts. However, one possessed host stood-out by tanking the powerful bursts of electricity, that of a Jedi Master. And Vitiate used this possessed host to fight the (PC) protagonist which also didn't prove up to the challenge.

Vitiate then decided to let go of the hosts and utilize his power in destructive manner, and end-result is in front of you.

Originally posted by Selenial
When? He was destroyed by it.

Prove that it's not, no one has ever actually survived one and its quoted as the most destructive light side power imaginable....

Odan-Urr.

Ahaha, that's really all you have? That's adorable. I don't have to prove a negative, you have to prove that your claim is valid. Also... Ulic survived it. WTF???

Originally posted by Nephthys
No. The answer is no to Luke one-shotting him. Lol. Why not? If Luke Skywalker successfully generates a wall of light, one would theorise the Sith Emperor would have to exert more power than Luke is capable of putting in to it to escape.

Therefore if Luke > Emperor, the Emperor should fail.

EDIT: Sel is correct, Nomi had no intention of killing Ulic.

However its obvious that wall of light has the capability to destroy.

Originally posted by Selenial
When? He was destroyed by it.

Prove that it's not, no one has ever actually survived one and its quoted as the most destructive light side power imaginable....

That's not how this works. We've only seen it used once? Or twice? And I believe Odan Urr said it was ONE of the most destructive light side powers. And even then it's his opinion.

Originally posted by psmith81992
That's not how this works. We've only seen it used once? Or twice? And I believe Odan Urr said it was ONE of the most destructive light side powers. And even then it's his opinion. One instance is enough, it sets a precedent. On the other hand, what prove do you have to the contrary?

Odan Urr said it is:

"...the most devastating attack possible using the powers of the light side."

We are given no reason to doubt his words, him being among the most knowledgeable Jedi in history.

I don't have to prove the contrary because one instance doesn't set a precedent. It was used twice. And yes, devastating according to Odan Urr because it separates one from the force. So?

Originally posted by psmith81992
I don't have to prove the contrary because one instance doesn't set a precedent. It was used twice. And yes, devastating according to Odan Urr because it separates one from the force. So?

What? It's devastating because it's devastating.

It destroyed Yavin IV.

Originally posted by Selenial
What? It's devastating because it's devastating.

It destroyed Yavin IV.

Yes...A GROUP of jedi doing the wall of light destroyed Yavin IV (although the temples were left intact).

Yeah, that was thousands of Jedi, lol.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Yes...A GROUP of jedi doing the wall of light destroyed Yavin IV (although the temples were left intact).

And? A non prime Luke created a wall of light far larger than that with Leia. Leia wasn't even that powerful as Jedi go.

Luke grew exponentially in power however and wouldn't need to create a wall of light that size, it's pretty clear that he could make one alone.

Uh, I seriously doubt Luke created a wall of light far larger than that conjured by 10,000 Jedi.

Originally posted by Selenial
And? A non prime Luke created a wall of light far larger than that with Leia. Leia wasn't even that powerful as Jedi go.

Luke grew exponentially in power however and wouldn't need to create a wall of light that size, it's pretty clear that he could make one alone.

No, it's not pretty clear that he could make one alone. That's called reaching. So what you have is thousands of jedi barely being able to do what one sith lord did by himself...As a spirit...Followed by assertions.

Well...for all Vitiate's experience, he just hasn't got enough power to compete. And, Luke has been war trained most of his life. Nothing sharpens the old skills like 'succeed or die.' Vitiate...tended to do less with all those centuries he existed. He didn't risk himself the way Luke Hero Complex Skywalker does.

You should go look at this thread Angelalex......

I did. And it's the usual Group of People arguing Vitiate vs. DE Sidious. It's not even convincing Vitiate can take him out, let alone the superior GM Luke.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
I did. And it's the usual Group of People arguing Vitiate vs. DE Sidious. It's not even convincing Vitiate can take him out, let alone the superior GM Luke.
Why not? Vitiate's power was potent enough to atomize many individuals on Ziost. Similarly, he unleashed a power with which he downed an entire Sith Strike Team on Dromund Kaas.

Vitiate can defeat any Force-user.

Didn't Luke at one point cloaked an entire Planet with the Force and one time his aura was felt across the Galaxy and when every Dark sider felt it they were in pain? Also Luke and Leia were able to generate a Wall of Light so powerful that it cut DE Palpatine's connection to his power and thus his Force Storm and Force Storms are Planetary, the Force Storm was originally going to eat the Pinnacle Moon Base.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because Luke isn't strong enough to one-shot Vitiate. Using any attack. Prove it, lol. He's twice as powerful as Sidious.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I don't have to prove the contrary because one instance doesn't set a precedent. It was used twice. And yes, devastating according to Odan Urr because it separates one from the force. So? Yes it does, because it proves a wall of light can be used to destroy.

So Luke can use it to destroy the Sith Emperor, who has no special immunity to it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes it does, because it proves a wall of light can be used to destroy.

So Luke can use it to destroy the Sith Emperor, who has no special immunity to it.

A wall of light can be used to destroy.. It took 10,000 jedi just to keep Exar Kun confined to his temple. They couldn't kill him. So no, there's no proof whatsoever Luke could have a similar effect on Vitiate..

10,000 Jedi was what it took to surpass the strength of Exar Kun + 1,000 Massassi, Luke is all it will take to surpass the strength of Vitiate twice over. No he might not be able to destroy him, but its obvious is your stronger than your opponent you can at least contain them.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Prove it, lol. He's twice as powerful as Sidious.

No he isn't.

This thread is evil.

Two more dumb baseless assumptions.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No he isn't. He is.

At this point lets just allow Beniboy to keep on typing without paying any attention to the context. It will reduce the amount of facepalms that are likely to occur.

Can't we all just agree that Luke wins and live in peace and prosperity

Originally posted by Stigma
Can't we all just agree that Luke wins and live in peace and prosperity

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He is.

Ok.

Except not.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ok.

Except not. Neph is G-Canon that he is, unless you have prove to the contrary, he kinda is.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Neph is G-Canon that he is, unless you have prove to the contrary, he kinda is.
No it's not lol.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Neph is G-Canon that he is, unless you have prove to the contrary, he kinda is.

I never claimed to be G-canon. I know you're impressed by me, but that's a bit too far ok?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I never claimed to be G-canon. I know you're impressed by me, but that's a bit too far ok? *Its lol

Honest.

Originally posted by psmith81992
No it's not lol. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15186507#post15186507 tbh.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15186507#post15186507 tbh.

Apparently your inability to reason has a lot to do with your inability to read.


That's called potential.


His son could become stronger than the emperor. Not 200% lol

Anakin's potential was to become twice as powerful as the Emperor, Luke fufilled that potential, therefore becoming twice as powerful as the Emperor. That is the only reading.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Anakin's potential was to become twice as powerful as the Emperor, Luke fufilled that potential, therefore becoming twice as powerful as the Emperor. That is the only reading.

Sorry, that's not what the text says or even implies. Good try though

Believing that Luke prime is as powerful as DE Sidious x2 is beyond redemption.

Originally posted by Sinious
Believing that Luke prime is as powerful as DE Sidious x2 is beyond redemption. Lucas' quotes refer to ROTJ Sidious, not DE.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Sorry, that's not what the text says or even implies. Good try though Lol ok, feel free to prove otherwise when you have the time.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol ok, feel free to prove otherwise when you have the time.

Looks like someone still doesn't understand how burden of proof works. You made the claim, you have to prove it. Since you can't, I accept your concession. Moving on.

Luke could be 2x Sidious but he never got there. And Lucas never did anything post-RotJ or payed attention to that shit so its not like for Lucas Luke ever became that powerful.

Are we talking about how destructive these characters can get or who would win in a duel?

Cause even Nihilus may rival them in the former category but I don't see anyone beating Luke 1on1.

I'm not sure, didn't Luke run away from a volcano exploding or the darkside of a planets nexus exploding or something in LotF? That seemed to be on a lesser scale than killing a planet.

I meant Nihilus rivals the likes of Vitiate, Sidious etc. Lightsiders are never really that destructive.

But yeah, if formless version of Vitiate cannot be harmed, he will kill Luke + all life in Coruscant.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Looks like someone still doesn't understand how burden of proof works. You made the claim, you have to prove it. Since you can't, I accept your concession. Moving on. I did, you claimed my reading was incorrect the burden of proof is in you.

One of the things I think is going on here is people overestimating the Dark Side in general. Destroying is what it does...but that's all it does. But it is not actually stronger then the Light.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Luke could be 2x Sidious but he never got there. And Lucas never did anything post-RotJ or payed attention to that shit so its not like for Lucas Luke ever became that powerful. I'm not sure what would stop him reaching his potential.

And while true the post-ROTJ did pay attention to Lucas, I can't think of much other reason why they would make him so uber powerful, pulling down and rebuilding mountain sized fortresses and the like.

oops

You have to prove that he did.


I did prove it. Very simple understanding of the english language. You seem to be confused. Now you have to prove what you wrote is what me meant. Moving on.

Anakin had the potential to be the most powerful force user in history, Luke canonically filled that potential, I don't see why there's arguments about him not.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Very simple understanding of the english language. You seem to be confused.
You seem to forgot to capitalize English.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/61829501.jpg

How did you know I'm black?

Originally posted by Selenial
Anakin had the potential to be the most powerful force user in history, Luke canonically filled that potential, I don't see why there's arguments about him not.

The argument is a mathematical argument. And looks like you proved my point. "He could become that" equates to him being more powerful than the emperor and becoming the most powerful of all time, not being 200% of the emperor.

Originally posted by Selenial
Anakin had the potential to be the most powerful force user in history, Luke canonically filled that potential, I don't see why there's arguments about him not.

IIRC, it is said that Luke became the jedi that Anakin was supposed to become. Does any official source state that Anakin and Luke had equal potentials?

Anakin had the potential to become as powerful as the Father of Mortis who is more powerful than Abeloth who is like 12 times more powerful than Luke prime.

Another source says Anakin's unrealized peak would be equal to ROTJ Palpatine x 2.

Don't know which one to believe but I feel like the latter is said in a vague way so perhaps it shouldn't be taken as seriously as the former comparison of potentials.

Originally posted by Sinious
IIRC, it is said that Luke became the jedi that Anakin was supposed to become. Does any official source state that Anakin and Luke had equal potentials?

Anakin had the potential to become as powerful as the Father of Mortis who is more powerful than Abeloth who is like 12 times more powerful than Luke prime.

Another source says Anakin's unrealized peak would be equal to ROTJ Palpatine x 2.

Don't know which one to believe but I feel like the latter is said in a vague way so perhaps it shouldn't be taken as seriously as the former comparison of potentials. You don't have to though, G-Canon supercedes all other Canon, so therefore the source saying Abeloth is 12 times more powerful than Luke is incorrect.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I just did lol. There was nothing preventing Luke from fulfilling his potential, he therefore should have fulfilled his full potential.

Anyway let me post the full contexts of the quote for everyone:

You got it. And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor – he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that.

--George Lucas, "The Cult of Darth Vader" Rolling Stone

George situates the contexts of saying "the son could become that" in the contexts of Anakin failing to achieve his promised potential because of the injuries he sustained on Mustafar. Thereby linking it to his commentary on that particular instance, and making it relevant.

He states also explicitly that Vader wasn't what he was supposed to become, but his son, Luke, could become that. To put it more plainly: Luke Skywalker could become what Vader was supposed to become.

In this quote, Lucas says Vader/Anakin was supposed to become stronger than the Emperor, but he is more specific in the second quote which I shall now remind you of:

"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful,” he says. “But he ended up losing his legs and an arm and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than him. So that isn’t what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark Side..."

--George Lucas, "Star Wars: The Last Battle" Vanity Fair Magazine

In this quote, Lucas makes more specific what Vader was supposed to become:

1. Extremely powerful.
2. Twice as good as the Emperor.

So collectively we have the following:

1. Luke had the potential to become what Anakin was supposed to become.
2. Anakin was supposed to become extremely powerful, and twice as good as the Emperor.

Therefore, Luke had the potential to become extremely powerful and twice as good as the Emperor. Again, there is no other interpretation, and this one couldn't be any more obvious.

George Lucas still relevant for Star Wars related matters? He is not.

Disney have revised Anakin's canonical standing:

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force. A hero of the Clone Wars, Anakin was caring and compassionate, but also had a fear of loss that would prove to be his downfall.

Source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker

Even in the Legends continuity, Anakin Skywalker had the highest midi-chlorian count "on record" - midi-chlorian count was commonly measured since 1000 BBY.

Based on this revised canon development, Luke Skywalker can become one the most powerful Jedi ever (at maximum). Even in the latest Legends continuity sources, Luke is hyped as the most powerful Jedi "of his era."

This is a Legends battle, so Disney isn't relevant here. Remember Vitiate doesn't exist in Disney, so exist>not exist.

So you have to leave Luke at Legends status. Besides, ep 7 isn't out yet, so the strongest non Legends Luke is merely ROTJ Luke, and nobody's comparing 'not even a council member' Luke to Vitiate.

Anyways. The Luke being used is presumably the Aboleth fighting FOTJ version.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
George Lucas still relevant for Star Wars related matters? He is not.

Who are you to decide that? Just because Drew Karpyshyn isn't actively writing a new up to date Revan Novel every day doesn't mean the statements in the Revan Novel aren't canon. Exact same for George, what he says now might not be G-Canon but what he said before is still perfectly valid.

Originally posted by Beniboybling

Lucas then goes on to claim, that Luke could fufil that potential i.e. become twice as powerful as Sidious.


Could =/= did.

Becoming the jedi Anakin was supposed to become =/= having the same potential in the force.

Also, can you share the part where he claims that please.

Originally posted by Sinious
Could =/= did.

Becoming the jedi Anakin was supposed to become =/= having the same potential in the force.

Also, can you share the part where he claims that please. Sure but most Jedi fulfill their potential, and considering Luke's canonically recognised vast rate of progression, I see no reason why Luke would had had his growth stunted. Also Lucas says it in the contexts of Force power, not skill or something.

And I provided it in the quote above, to be specific:

He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
George Lucas still relevant for Star Wars related matters? He is not.

Disney have revised Anakin's canonical standing:

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force. A hero of the Clone Wars, Anakin was caring and compassionate, but also had a fear of loss that would prove to be his downfall.

Source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker

Even in the Legends continuity, Anakin Skywalker had the highest midi-chlorian count "on record" - midi-chlorian count was commonly measured since 1000 BBY.

Based on this revised canon development, Luke Skywalker can become one the most powerful Jedi ever (at maximum). Even in the latest Legends continuity sources, Luke is hyped as the most powerful Jedi "of his era." For the Legends content created under him? Yes he is.

We are referring to post-ROTJ Luke as per Legends.

That's not revised lol, the most powerful Jedi ever is obviously going to be among one of the most powerful Jedi ever. Just as Darth Sidious being the most powerful Sith Lord ever makes him one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever.

Not that it matters because again we are dealing with Legends post-ROTJ Luke here not Canon post-ROTJ Luke which will exist in a completely different universe. New Canon content doesn't have any bearing on this character, G-Canon however does.

Originally posted by Beniboybling

He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that.

LOL I don't see how that means they were equal potential wise.

Originally posted by Sinious
LOL I don't see how that means they were equal potential wise. Because George is saying Luke could fulfill Anakin's potential, meaning they have equal potential.

He says Anakin didn't become what he was supposed to become and that Luke could become that. From this, all I understand is that Luke became the Ultimate Jedi that Anakin was meant to be, not that they were equally gifted in the force.

It still doesn't mean that they were equally gifted. It means that Luke could also become more powerful than the Emperor which has never been questioned.

Originally posted by Sinious
It still doesn't mean that they were equally gifted. It means that Luke could also become more powerful than the Emperor which has never been questioned. It means that he could become everything Anakin was supposed to become, that's how it reads, and you've admitted that that is how it reads.

Lucas has said that the Anakin was supposed to have become twice as powerful as Sidious, Luke can therefore become that.

On what grounds are you omitting that from the equation?

Originally posted by Sinious
LOL I don't see how that means they were equal potential wise.

He doesn't get it.


Just because you don't think there was nothing preventing Luke from fulfilling his potential, doesn't mean he fulfilled his potential. You really don't understand how this works. If you can't prove it, move on. Also, his potential was to be more powerful than the Emperor..

Originally posted by Selenial
Who are you to decide that? Just because Drew Karpyshyn isn't actively writing a new up to date Revan Novel every day doesn't mean the statements in the Revan Novel aren't canon. Exact same for George, what he says now might not be G-Canon but what he said before is still perfectly valid.
My point is that George Lucas's contributions to the lore are valid for consideration but his "statements" no longer carry as much weight-age because Disney gets to decide about what is officially correct or not.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It means that he could become everything Anakin was supposed to become, that's how it reads, and you've admitted that that is how it reads.

Lucas has said that the Anakin was supposed to have become twice as powerful as Sidious, Luke can therefore become that.

On what grounds are you omitting that from the equation?

Isn't that in contradiction with the Mortis trilogy? I mean, Anakin had the potential to stomp the Son and the Daughter, and reach the Father's level, and the latter should be more powerful than Abeloth, who in turn is >Luke. Yes, Anakin needed a nexus amp, but that's still proof of his potential.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It means that he could become everything Anakin was supposed to become, that's how it reads, and you've admitted that that is how it reads.

Lucas has said that the Anakin was supposed to have become twice as powerful as Sidious, Luke can therefore become that.

On what grounds are you omitting that from the equation?

You said the context is very important. Lucas' point was that Anakin was going to become more powerful than Sidious but Obi-wan ruined it. Yet, there's another force user that could become what Anakin can't be anymore which is being more powerful than Sidious.

Originally posted by Sinious
You said the context is very important. Lucas' point was that Anakin was going to become more powerful than Sidious but Obi-wan ruined it. Yet, there's another force user that could become what Anakin can't be anymore which is being more powerful than Sidious.

Thank you

Originally posted by Beniboybling
For the Legends content created under him? Yes he is.

We are referring to post-ROTJ Luke as per Legends.

That's not revised lol, the most powerful Jedi ever is obviously going to be among one of the most powerful Jedi ever. Just as Darth Sidious being the most powerful Sith Lord ever makes him one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever.

Not that it matters because again we are dealing with Legends post-ROTJ Luke here not Canon post-ROTJ Luke which will exist in a completely different universe. New Canon content doesn't have any bearing on this character, G-Canon however does.
Luke Skywalker is not officially promoted as the most powerful Jedi in galactic history even in the Legends continuity.

Even Luke's strength in the Force cannot help. The most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy can only stand by and watch his wife die.

Taken from Star Wars: The New Jedi Order Sourcebook

"Luke Skywalker is still the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. I think we should assume he has a plan," Jaina said..

Taken from Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Vortex

---

Luke Skywalker have been promoted as having higher potential then mortal Darth Sidious in a source, but Dark Empire saga changes the situation.

True, but he obviously is. His only competition is Yoda.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Just because you don't think there was nothing preventing Luke from fulfilling his potential, doesn't mean he fulfilled his potential. You really don't understand how this works. If you can't prove it, move on.Yes it does, that's how the progression of a Jedi works, they get stronger and stronger until they reach their potential through training, if nothing got in the way of Luke getting stronger and stronger he would have inevitably reached his potential.

Your grasping at straws.I've disproved that as the case here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15188098#post15188098

The burden of proof is now on you.Originally posted by Nargaroth
Isn't that in contradiction with the Mortis trilogy? I mean, Anakin had the potential to stomp the Son and the Daughter, and reach the Father's level, and the latter should be more powerful than Abeloth, who in turn is >Luke. Yes, Anakin needed a nexus amp, but that's still proof of his potential. I'd say its a contradiction with Abeloth material, which is overriden by Mortis and George as higher levels of canon.

That or Abeloth > The Father, which is a possibility. I mean she did bathe in the Pool of Knowledge and in the Font of Power...

I mean bear in mind that the Mortis arc came several years after Abeloth. So it's think its as if they were considering Mortis when they were writing her.Originally posted by Sinious
You said the context is very important. Lucas' point was that Anakin was going to become more powerful than Sidious but Obi-wan ruined it. Yet, there's another force user that could become what Anakin can't be anymore which is being more powerful than Sidious. And twice as powerful as the Sidious, its not in the same quote, but it is from the same guy and in the exact same contexts. Therefore I feel it applies. He's basically being more explicit on what "being more powerful than Sidious" entails.

However at this point I'm inclined to agree to disagree. New Canon might not even acknowledge it anyway.

FOTJ Luke is not twice more powerful than Sidious, lmfao.
That was what his canon potential was, not what his legends outcome ended up being.

Try again - or not at all.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Thank you

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdl8ecBVE41rt0lnbo1_400.gif

Ok so you've proven that not only can you not interpret anything properly, but that you also have no idea what "grasping at straws" is. Continue making up stuff. Your assertions aren't quite priceless but good enough for some amusement.
Think it's about time to put this guy the same category as Frenchie.

http://www.flourishthriveacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/persistence-1.jpg

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Luke Skywalker have been promoted as having higher potential then mortal Darth Sidious in a source, but Dark Empire saga changes the situation. Meh, pre-prime Luke + BM from a semi-trained Leia > DE Sidious.

Prime Luke more than makes up for Leia, Prime Luke > DE Sidious.Originally posted by DarthAnt66
FOTJ Luke is not twice more powerful than Sidious, lmfao.
That was what his canon potential was, not what his legends outcome ended up being.

Try again - or not at all. Provide proof and we'll discuss terms tbh.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
True, but he obviously is. His only competition is Yoda.
He is not.

Revan, Hero of Tython and Yoda.

@Beni: There is a difference between BM and FH, lmfao.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My point is that George Lucas's contributions to the lore are valid for consideration but his "statements" no longer carry as much weight-age because Disney gets to decide about what is officially correct or not.

And they've decided that SWTOR isn't Canon, so George's weight holds just as true as anything that bears the TOR Title.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He is not.

Revan, Hero of Tython and Yoda.
Hero of Tython isn't even comparable to Revan as of SOR, yet alone the Jedi that is Yoda.
Revan has Yoda beat in terms of the category Sense, but Yoda beats him in everything else.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And twice as powerful as the Sidious, its not in the same quote, but it is from the same guy and in the exact same contexts. Therefore I feel it applies. He's basically being more explicit on what "being more powerful than Sidious" entails.

However at this point I'm inclined to agree to disagree. New Canon might not even acknowledge it anyway.

Not in the exact same contexts no.

You're trying too hard and that's just not good for your health dude.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Beni: There is a difference between BM and FH, lmfao. English please.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Provide proof and we'll discuss terms tbh.
That he isn't taking into consideration legends material, lmfao?

Originally posted by Sinious
Not in the exact same contexts no.

You're trying too hard and that's just not good for your health dude. Did you read the quote?

I will admit KMC is exasperating, but I am a completionist by nature.Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That he isn't taking into consideration legends material, lmfao? That FOTJ obviously isn't what George envisioned.

Assuming that FOTJ is his prime, as he was 60(?) at that point.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
English please.
BM - Battle Meditation.
FH - Force Harmony.

.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Prove that FOTJ obviously isn't what George envisioned.

Assuming that FOTJ is his prime.
You can't ask me to prove a negative. Why don't you get this?

Prove that it was what he envisioned.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Meh, pre-prime Luke + BM from a semi-trained Leia > DE Sidious.

Prime Luke more than makes up for Leia, Prime Luke > DE Sidious.Provide proof and we'll discuss terms tbh.
I am not sure if this would be valid conclusion.

Lord Nyax is officially hyped as being stronger then Luke Skywalker in Legends continuity.

Originally posted by Selenial
And they've decided that SWTOR isn't Canon, so George's weight holds just as true as anything that bears the TOR Title.
TOR era content is part of Legends continuity.

In addition, Lucas's remarks about Skywalkers having twice the potential of Darth Sidious is not endorsed in the lore (Legends or Canon). His remarks can be ignored.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
BM - Battle Meditation.
FH - Force Harmony.

. Meh, pedantic.

Force Harmony has an insanely more powerful result.

I accept your concession.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'd say its a contradiction with Abeloth material, which is overriden by Mortis and George as higher levels of canon.

That or Abeloth > The Father, which is a possibility. I mean she did bathe in the Pool of Knowledge and in the Font of Power...

I mean bear in mind that the Mortis arc came several years after Abeloth. So it's think its as if they were considering Mortis when they were writing her.

Or it might be that Anakin's potential is indeed superior to his son's, which makes sense because the former was fathered by the Force. And I doubt they were considering Mortis and Lucas'word when they wrote about her.

Not to mention that Abeloth being far stronger than Luke doesn't contradict anything.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You can't ask me to prove a negative. Why don't you get this?

Prove that it was what he envisioned. Lol wut?

It was what he envisioned because they are bound by G-Canon.

This is indeed funny.

Originally posted by psmith81992
This is indeed funny.
Prove this isn't funny.

lol

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol wut?

It was what he envisioned because they are bound by G-Canon.
Hint: You can't win debates by negatives on KMC.

It's what he envisioned Luke to be - he never said that is what he ended up as.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Did you read the quote?

I will admit KMC is exasperating, but I am a completionist by nature.


I did. In one of them, it says that Anakin had the potential to become %200 of Sidious and in the other one it says Anakin would be more powerful than Sidious and that's what he had in common with Luke. So no reason to think that Luke would also become %200 of Sidious.

It doesn't even make sense to think that Luke would have the exact same potential. One is conceived from the Force and the other is not. Also, since you can't prove what GL envisioned regarding Luke's future and more importantly since this is an EU forum that takes Legends into account as well, we already know that Prime Anakin = The Father > Abeloth > Luke.

So please stop posting the same thing over and over again.

Originally posted by Sinious
So please stop posting the same thing over and over again.
He does that a lot.