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Normally, the majority of members place Vitiate below ROTS Sidious including myself. However, with Vitiate's recent feats, a lot of people started to compare him to DE Sidious.

So where does he stand now compared to the Big Bad of the movies?

FORCE ONLY.

DE Sidious.

DE Palpatine. If his spirit truly is weaker than his body I'm going to put him above Palpatine.

Only Palpatine (DE) stands a chance at defeating a Vitiate's Voice.

But Palpatine (DE) cannot stop Vitiate's essence and is likely to fall to Vitiate's counterattack.

Palpatine has an essence, too, which escaped Chaos by virtue of sheer willpower.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Palpatine has an essence, too, which escaped Chaos by virtue of sheer willpower.
Yes, but Jedi essences consumed his essence.

Vitiate's essence is by far the most powerful and dangerous yet witnessed.

It took every Jedi in history to overpower Sidious, lol.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It took every Jedi in history to overpower Sidious, lol.
Every Jedi did not preserve his essence, few did. So that is overreaching.

The comic states all past Jedi would make sure he didn't escape.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The comic states all past Jedi would make sure he didn't escape.
It's an interpretation.

Few Jedi managed to preserve their essences in galactic history. All of these essences likely played a role in stopping Palpatine's essence.

The Official Star Wars Fact File #120 says the same thing, so no, it's not an interpretation.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The Official Star Wars Fact File #120 says the same thing, so no, it's not an interpretation.
How can every Jedi in galactic history be available to stop Palpatine's essence, when most of them did not even exist during Palpatine's era and most of them did not even preserve their essence? You tell me.

It doesn't say every Jedi in galactic history, but every Jedi Force Ghost.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It doesn't say every Jedi in galactic history, but every Jedi Force Ghost.
And this is exactly what I have been saying.

There's nothing to prevent them from stopping Palpatine, lol.

Can Palpatine's essence manipulate the force without a host?

It has created Wormholes (or rended space/time) before, as per Gamer#5.

Originally posted by Sinious
Can Palpatine's essence manipulate the force without a host?
To a limited extent.

It is capable of possessing a living being (1 at a time).

Palpatine ordered creation of large number of clones to serve as his hosts, should the need arise. However, each clone deteriorated from ravaging effects of dark side practices. Therefore, Palpatine considered acquiring the body of a living Force-sensitive. He attempted to possess the body of Anakin Solo but was stopped by a Jedi Knight Empatojayos Brand and Jedi essences.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It has created Wormholes (or rended space/time) before, as per Gamer#5.

Do you or anyone else have a quote to share regarding this? I'm curious to know what exactly is stated.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
To a limited extent.

It is capable of possessing a living being (1 at a time).

Palpatine ordered creation of large number of clones to serve as his hosts, should the need arise. However, each clone deteriorated from ravaging effects of dark side practices. Therefore, Palpatine considered acquiring the body of a living Force-sensitive. He attempted to possess the body of Anakin Solo but was stopped by a Jedi named Brand and Jedi essences.

That's not what I was asking though.

From Gamer#5:

"The moment the Emperor "died" at the Battle of Endor, Droga fell into an inexplicable insanity, butchering his crew and causing the Emperor's Shadow to plunge into Kaal's oceans. Even as he perished, Palpatine used the dark side knowledge the Sith Lords had granted him years earlier to rend space itself and transmigrate his essence across lightyears to Droga's body."

It's ambiguous but still.

Oh I knew about that yeah. Thanks though.

My question was that if he could unleash devastating force attacks like Vitiate did on Ziost without a host. Because that's an important detail on their comparison imo.

Well we've never really seen anything like it in general, let alone when performed by spirits.

Nihilus came close but he was amped and used warships as well.

Following the destruction of the second Death Star, Palpatine's consciousness spent over a year drifting across the space. On reaching Byss, he awakened and recuperated in the body of a Clone, one of many kept in service. Because the clones can only contain his evil for a limited time, Palpatine strives to take possession of a strong Jedi body.

Taken from Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide

At this point, all Legend needs is a quote that says Vitiate was even more powerful before he got killed by HoT.

Originally posted by Sinious
At this point, all Legend needs is a quote that says Vitiate was even more powerful before he got killed by HoT.

Yes, the mighty world eater was at his peak when confronted on a dark side nexus and defeated by a lone Jedi Knight and his astromech droid.

That would probably lend itself more to his enemies' case than his tbh.

Well he was weakened by a galaxy consuming ritual gone wrong.

Regarding Darth Nihilus:

Nothing matters except his hunger. Before it devours him totally, Nihilus uses its power to displace his persona into his robes and armor. As his useless body disintegrates, he becomes living primitive intention; at last, the whole galaxy becomes food - for Nihilus has become hunger.

Taken from Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yes, the mighty world eater was at his peak when confronted on a dark side nexus and defeated by a lone Jedi Knight and his astromech droid.

That would probably lend itself more to his enemies' case than his tbh.
Here:

You've learned that the Emperor is on Dromund Kaas, temporarily weakened by your efforts thwarting his plan for galactic annihilation. Striking at him now is your best chance to defeat him once and for all.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic

Lets not bring that up, otherwise I'll bring up the mighty sith lord getting shot in the back by Han "I shot first" Solo. "But but but he intended to die anyways!!" Riiiiight.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Lets not bring that up, otherwise I'll bring up the mighty sith lord getting shot in the back by Han "I shot first" Solo. "But but but he intended to die anyways!!" Riiiiight.

Not my point, but by all means, feel free. 👍

As you would say, "apples and oranges."

Practically speaking, there aren't a whole lot of Dark Side spirits to compare either one of them to. Spirit Exar Kun in Jedi Academy seems stronger then he ever was with a body.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Practically speaking, there aren't a whole lot of Dark Side spirits to compare either one of them to. Spirit Exar Kun in Jedi Academy seems stronger then he ever was with a body.
There are many.

- Darth Andeddu
- Darth Andru
- Darth Bane
- Darth Caedus
- Darsin
- Servant of Ergast
- Quorlac Fornayh
- Horak-mul
- Dathka Graush
- Darth Iratus
- Skere Kaan
- Aloysius Kallig
- Exar Kun
- LaTor
- Saalo Morn
- Terrak Morrhage
- Karness Muur
- Freedon Nadd
- Darth Nihilus
- Ajunta Pall
- Qordis
- Marka Ragnos
- Naga Sadow
- Darth Vectivus
- XoXaan
- Darth Zash
- Kalatosh Zavros

Exar Kun was able to manipulate the Force in essence form but he needed a strong Jedi body (i.e. Kyp Durron) to retrieve Sun Crusher and defeat Luke Skywalker.

TPM Sidious should be enough. Imho Sidious more or less reached his prime at that point and only marginally improved after that time and most improvements were about new Force powers rather than combat prowess. Anyway, if TPM Sidious is less powerful than Vitiate, he can still beat him JK style by resisting Force attacks and closing in.

Originally posted by Arhael
TPM Sidious should be enough. Imho Sidious more or less reached his prime at that point and only marginally improved after that time and most improvements were about new Force powers rather than combat prowess. Anyway, if TPM Sidious is less powerful than Vitiate, he can still beat him JK style by resisting Force attacks and closing in.
Good points.



IMHO RotS Sidious is enough. He has vastly superior speed and skill and him bending the will of the Force (even pre RotS) is superior to Vitiate's showings.

I'd argue Vitiate takes a majority over any incarnation of Sidious sans DE. That's where the debate is at rn tbh.

Nah. Sidious challenging the Force itself and bending its will > Vitiate's feats IMHO.

Originally posted by Stigma
IMHO RotS Sidious is enough. He has vastly superior speed and skill and him bending the will of the Force (even pre RotS) is superior to Vitiate's showings.
Darth Sidious did not bend the will of the Force on his own. This was joint effort of Darths Plagueis and Sidious and this feat took months of meditation and exertion.

Originally posted by Stigma
Nah. Sidious challenging the Force itself and bending its will > Vitiate's feats IMHO.
Nonsense.

Want me to provide information?

I can also provide information that implies that balance of the Force have fluctuated at different times in history.

With Plagueis's assistance, and while in deep, constant meditation for months. I have my doubts that Sidious would be presented the same circumstances in an actual fight.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Sidious did not bend the will of the Force on his own. This was joint effort of Darths Plagueis and Sidious and this feat took months of meditation.
That is true. But the Force is a universal power. Even if we divide their effort by 2, Sidious's feat still beats Vitiate's mere planetary feat.

It was also well before RotS.

There's a reason Palpatine wasn't even able to fully control his planet-destroying force storms until DE, Stig. If Palpatine actually was a universal-level power, (lol,) force storms would be a triviality.

Originally posted by Stigma
That is true. But the Force is a universal power. Even if we divide their effort by 2, Sidious's feat still beats Vitiate's mere planetary feat.

It was also well before RotS.
Read this:

The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

So much for being an exclusive feat, it isn't. Maybe it is easier to disrupt the balance of the Force because it fluctuates anyways.

Mere planetary feat? Have Sidious demonstrated matching power? No.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
There's a reason Palpatine wasn't even able to fully control his planet-destroying force storms until DE, Stig.
I am positive that there is info that claims otherwise.
Somone like Gideon Tempest will be more knowledgeable about it, I'm sure.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
If Palpatine actually was a universal-level power, (lol,) force storms would be a triviality.
That's not what I said LOL. I said the Force is a universal power. Influencing that power to such a degree is beyond Vitiate IMHO.

Originally posted by Stigma
That's not what I said LOL. I said the Force is a universal power. Influencing that power to such a degree is beyond Vitiate IMHO.
Riiiight...

Vitiate obliterated the Force energy around Nathema. The Force is omnipresent, not omnipotent.

Originally posted by Stigma
Good points.



IMHO RotS Sidious is enough. He has vastly superior speed and skill and him bending the will of the Force (even pre RotS) is superior to Vitiate's showings.
Well. How impressive feats is subject to opinion. I rely more on the status of each character in the lore. Vitiate is top villain of his era. So is Sidious but Sidious is also canonically most powerful even though in film media he doesn't seem to be as impressive as Vitiate.

Originally posted by Arhael
Well. How impressive feats is subject to opinion. I rely more on the status of each Sith in the lore. Vitiate is top villain of his era. So is Sidious but Sidious is also canonically most powerful even though in film media he doesn't seem to be as impressive as Vitiate.
Correction: Darth Sidious isn't canonically most powerful Sith.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Correction: Darth Sidious isn't canonically most powerful Sith.
Dismissed: he is.

Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

--Taken from The New Essential Chronology

Originally posted by Arhael
Dismissed: he is.
He isn't.

Not a single canon source promotes Sidious as the most powerful Sith. Such promotions stopped when Vitiate, The Ones, and Abeloth had been introduced to the mythos.

Originally posted by Stigma
I am positive that there is info that claims otherwise.
Somone like Gideon Tempest will be more knowledgeable about it, I'm sure.

That's not what I said LOL. I said the Force is a universal power. Influencing that power to such a degree is beyond Vitiate IMHO.

1. I'm fairly certain that even ROTJ Palpatine, who was more powerful than ROTS Palpatine, couldn't even fully control his force storms.

2. It's beyond planetary annihilation? Sidious didn't even achieve that type of power until DE, who's>ROTS Sidious.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. I'm fairly certain that even ROTJ Palpatine, who was more powerful than ROTS Palpatine, couldn't even fully control his force storms.

2. It's beyond planetary annihilation? Sidious didn't even achieve that type of power until DE, who's>ROTS Sidious.
Member Stigma doesn't have extensive knowledge of lore.

This revelation is telling:

The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

Maybe it is easier to disrupt the balance of the Force because it fluctuates anyways.

The Force is an energy field and it is omnipresent. It's universal in span but it isn't some all-powerful entity. Its like oxygen on planet earth.

Not to forget that Vitiate demonstrated the capability to eliminate the Force itself. Nathema serves as a reminder.

Here is another:

"The Force always strives for balance. The Emperor is an agent of darkness and destruction. It is inevitable that a champion of the light will one day rise to oppose him. I may be that champion." - Revan

What Revan is implying is that Force-users are able to influence the balance of the Force. This may explain why the balance fluctuates.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He isn't.

Not a single canon source promotes Sidious as the most powerful Sith. Such promotions stopped when Vitiate, The Ones, and Abeloth had been introduced to the mythos.
I edited in an example of canon source above. There are many other examples.

Originally posted by Arhael
I edited in an example of canon source above. There are many other examples.
The New Essential Chronology is not a canon source-book, it is Legends source-book. Also, this source-book is heavily outdated in content, it predates the introduction of the super-strong characters to the lore (mentioned earlier). More importantly, Emperor Vitiate have superior showings then Darth Sidious.

DE Sidious stills trumps Vitiate, but I'm less sure that RotS/RotJ Sidious can anymore.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
DE Sidious stills trumps Vitiate, but I'm less sure that RotS/RotJ Sidious can anymore.
Remind me how. Posting unsubstantiated remarks doesn't makes your point credible.

Why not Lord Nyax > Darth Sidious (DE) because the former defeated superior incarnation of Luke Skywalker?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
DE Sidious stills trumps Vitiate, but I'm less sure that RotS/RotJ Sidious can anymore.
Have no fear. RotS Sids blitzes.

Originally posted by Stigma
Have no fear. RotS Sids blitzes.
Have no fear. Emperor Vitiate atomizes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Remind me how. Posting unsubstantiated remarks doesn't makes your point credible.

Why not Lord Nyax > Darth Sidious (DE) because the former defeated superior incarnation of Luke Skywalker?
Because that superior Luke was till weaker than Sidious.

De Sidious >>>Vitiate

Next thread please?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because that superior Luke was till weaker than Sidious.
Lord Nyax defeated Jedi Master Luke Skywalker; incarnation that had manipulated a Vong blackhole earlier.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
De Sidious >>>Vitiate

Next thread please?
Fixed.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Vitiate >>>De Sidious

Next thread please?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The New Essential Chronology is not a canon source-book, it is Legends source-book. Also, this source-book is heavily outdated in content, it predates the introduction of the super-strong characters to the lore (mentioned earlier). More importantly, Emperor Vitiate have superior showings then Darth Sidious.

Legends is still a canon source. Sources do not get outdated unless directly contradicted. Vitiate existed way before Sidious, so his feats cannot contradict any statements in reference to Sidious. Whatever TOR era introduces, it does not invalidate PT and other later eras in any way whatsoever.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lord Nyax defeated Jedi Master Luke Skywalker; incarnation that had manipulated a Vong blackhole earlier.


Fixed.
And? Sidious could do those things.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lord Nyax defeated Jedi Master Luke Skywalker; incarnation that had manipulated a Vong blackhole earlier.


Fixed. I honestly can't believe there is someone more bias towards a character than Ant is to Revan.

Have you heard of Revan worship? Its a real thing

Originally posted by Arhael
Legends is still a canon source. Sources do not get outdated unless directly contradicted. Vitiate existed way before Sidious, so his feats cannot contradict any statements in reference to Sidious. Whatever TOR era introduces, it does not invalidate PT and other later eras in any way whatsoever.
Your interpretation is flawed.

Star Wars mythos have two continuities: Legends and Canon. Both are official but Canon continuity is different from Legends continuity. As an example, Darth Sidious (DE) is now a Legends continuity incarnation.

Also, source-books are revised with passage of time. For example:-

Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide was released on September 19, 2005. However, an Updated and Expanded edition was released on April 30, 2012. Reason is that the earlier edition became outdated in matters of content and also contained a few errors that were corrected in the newer edition.

As the new content emerged, it retconned some aspects of Sidious's hype in both Legends and Canon continuities by introducing and promoting newer super-strong characters such as Son and Abeloth.

Sidious is not promoted as the most powerful Sith in newer sources just like Master Yoda. These promotional shifts have reasons. Even Anakin Skywalker's potential hype have been revised in the Canon continuity.

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force.

Taken from Star Wars: Databank

Emperor Vitiate is demonstratively superior master of the dark side then Darth Sidious along-with official promotions such as almost godlike being and most powerful Force-user ever in relatively newer sources that acknowledge the existence of Celestials and also have introduced some new super-strong entities such as Soa, Terror from Beyond, and World Razer.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
I honestly can't believe there is someone more bias towards a character than Ant is to Revan.

Have you heard of Revan worship? Its a real thing
Have you heard of Sidious worship? Its a real thing as well, and amply demonstrated in this thread.

Fans of PT/OT/Legacy eras continue to assert that Sidious is superior to beings who have superior showings then him, based on Sidious's promotions in outdated sources. This is nonsense.

Star Wars have evolved, but your understanding of its ground realities have not.

The idea of Sidious blitzing Vitiate is stupid imo but DE Sidious is more than strong enough to defend against Vitiate's force attacks and kill him in a duel(assuming that Vitiate has a host body).

However, this is a force only thread. I'd like to focus on discussing which incarnation of Sidious is powerful enough to defeat Vitiate with his force powers.

Every single one version of Sidious since TPM

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Have you heard of Sidious worship? Its a real thing as well, and amply demonstrated in this thread.

Fans of PT/OT/Legacy eras continue to assert that Sidious is superior to beings who have superior showings then him, based on Sidious's promotions in outdated sources. This is nonsense.

Star Wars have evolved, but your understanding of its ground realities have not. the difference is that Sidious actually deserves the praise he received.

And LOL your obviously new to star wars yourself and chose to wank the first character you came across. I have read dozens of books comics and played many video games. You, however, have played a single video game. GG

Not true Legend's read the SWTOR Encyclopedia 100x, can repeat it verbatim word-for-word, and can recite it in 4 different languages as well.

Sign of votes on who considers Bantha a credible debater?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lord Nyax defeated Jedi Master Luke Skywalker; incarnation that had manipulated a Vong blackhole earlier.


Fixed.

So you're arguing Nyax would kick Vitiate's ass as well? Cool.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sign of votes on who considers Bantha a credible debater?

Me

stigma respond to or acknowledge my point earlier tbh

Originally posted by WildBantha88
And LOL your obviously new to star wars yourself and chose to wank the first character you came across. I have read dozens of books comics and played many video games. I feel like this needs to become a copypasta...

...Nyax is probably Plot Induced Stupdity. Other then his victory, he hasn't got the feats to contend with either of these guys.

I mean, a lone droideka once held off Luke AND Mara! Low showings happen.

Originally posted by Sinious
The idea of Sidious blitzing Vitiate is stupid imo but DE Sidious is more than strong enough to defend against Vitiate's force attacks and kill him in a duel(assuming that Vitiate has a host body).

However, this is a force only thread. I'd like to focus on discussing which incarnation of Sidious is powerful enough to defeat Vitiate with his force powers.
Vitiate can defeat any being with his powers. Nobody can tank his powers for long. And he demonstratively/documented stomps anybody with his greatest powers.

However, Sidious (DE) does have a chance at defeating any being as well, by virtue of his greatest powers.

Originally posted by McP
Every single one version of Sidious since TPM
Here comes another troll.

The Son could probably beat DE Sidious and Vitiate with his pinkie finger.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Me Thank you Neph

Legends. Christ this annoying. Dude TOR was made DURING legends Canon was still canon. TOR is a Legends work for all intents and purposes. It's not new canon or any other bs UNTIL a higher up confirms it.

God twisting Canon like this to fit a character agenda is just... ugh.


DE Sheev has a greater chance. That's just me.

It's been confirmed to be non-canon as well.

SWTOR is non-canon. It's Legends. In the worlds of Adele Dazeem, let it go.

In the words of Elsa...

Let it go...let it go~~~~

ROTS Sidious is the weakest imo. His force bending ritual with Plagueis is the most impressive esoteric force displays in the mythos. By ROTS he is the single avatar of darkness in the galaxy.

Why would RotS Sidious be weaker than TPM Sidious?

Sidious could perform Force Storm before DE - he confirms this in BoS, not to mention he used it in RotJ.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Sidious could perform Force Storm before DE - he confirms this in BoS, not to mention he used it in RotJ.
Nice! I knew I was onto something. Thanks.

It's true. Vitiate still has his 'relatively slow' problem.

What's the fastest we've ever seen him move, anyway?

Being able to create distance after standing next to the Jedi Knight? lol

@Stigma

After a lengthy discussion with a certain poster, I have Sidious definitively > Vitiate. Disregard my post tbh.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
@Stigma

After a lengthy discussion with a certain poster, I have Sidious definitively > Vitiate. Disregard my post tbh.
OK

ROTS!Sidious is more powerful than Vitiate. Perhaps earlier incarnations, perhaps not.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
ROTS!Sidious is more powerful than Vitiate. Perhaps earlier incarnations, perhaps not.
I concur.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
It's true. Vitiate still has his 'relatively slow' problem.

What's the fastest we've ever seen him move, anyway?
And this is based on?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
@Stigma

After a lengthy discussion with a certain poster, I have Sidious definitively > Vitiate. Disregard my post tbh.
Care to provide details?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Care to provide details?

I'll talk to you via PM when I have the chance.

Burden of proof is on you for speed feats. What's the fastest you've seen him move.

I still remain true that ROTS can defeat vitiate but if he can't ROTJ definitely can.

I concur.

TBH there are vocies that proclaim (probably rightly) that there's virtually no difference between RotS Sidious and TPM Sidious.

In that case I'd say every incarnation of Sidiosu is better than Vitiate.

Originally posted by Stigma
I concur.

TBH there are vocies that proclaim (probably rightly) that there's virtually no difference between RotS Sidious and TPM Sidious.

In that case I'd say every incarnation of Sidiosu is better than Vitiate.

Whenever Plaguis died that's when any version of Sidious is equal to ROTS because the only other thing he did was train dooku and he didn't train him much in sabers as dooku couldn't go any further than where he already went.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Burden of proof is on you for speed feats. What's the fastest you've seen him move.
On par with Hero of Tython, a Jedi Master who have blitzed competent Sith.

Furthermore, Vitiate defeated Revan in few seconds. In this short span, Vitiate was able to perform multiple actions.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I still remain true that ROTS can defeat vitiate but if he can't ROTJ definitely can.
Only with a lightsaber, but he have to get close first which is unlikely.

And Vitiate can defeat any incarnation of Palpatine with his Force abilities.

Originally posted by Stigma
In that case I'd say every incarnation of Sidiosu is better than Vitiate.
Keep on dreaming. It makes you sleep easier perhaps.

Any Sidious could

revan!Vitiate is probably a dead equal to rotj!Sidious.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
revan!Vitiate is probably a dead equal to rotj!Sidious. key word is dead

Lol Ant, tbh. Keep to arguing Current!Vitiate vs RotJ!Sidious.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Why would RotS Sidious be weaker than TPM Sidious?

I mean ROTS Sidious is the weakest that can defeat Vitiate. Vitiate would likely defeat TPM Sidious.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I mean ROTS Sidious is the weakest that can defeat Vitiate. Vitiate would likely defeat TPM Sidious.
Vitiate can defeat any Force-user, all incarnations of Sidious including.

Only Sidious (DE) stands a chance at defeating Vitiate's physical form. Lesser incarnations will flop.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
On par with Hero of Tython, a Jedi Master who have blitzed competent Sith.

Furthermore, Vitiate defeated Revan in few seconds. In this short span, Vitiate was able to perform multiple actions.


Only with a lightsaber, but he have to get close first which is unlikely.

And Vitiate can defeat any incarnation of Palpatine with his Force abilities.


Keep on dreaming. It makes you sleep easier perhaps.


The hero of tython and Revan are no where near sidious' power in the force. By the time of ROTS Sidious is stated as the most powerful Sith of all time and any incarnation after was only more powerful. Palpatine in ROTS can definitely beat vitiate. Vitiate has no single feats that can allow him to go toe toe with Sidious. Draining a planet with the help of hundreds of Sith and weeks of preparation is not a good feat as DE palpatine can do it by himself. Vitiate was beaten by the Hero Typhon. She is no where near Sidious level of power. Vitiate like Darth maul and Exar Kun and Darth Malgus are all overrated.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate can defeat any Force-user, all incarnations of Sidious including.

Only Sidious (DE) stands a chance at defeating Vitiate's physical form. Lesser incarnations will flop.

He can't defeat

Sidious
Yoda
Dooku
Vader
Caedus
The Ones
Mother Talzin
Etc.

Vitiate sucks

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Revan are no where near sidious' power in the force.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
He can't defeat


Yoda
Dooku
Vader
Caedus

Mother Talzin
Etc.
Gross list is gross.

Son>Sidious>Vitiate

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


Revan Fanboy

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I'm going to be honest with you I hate Revan

Actually, I think I might just copy and paste Emperor's entire response into my bio. It is S66 level priceless.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Son>Sidious>Vitiate

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Actually, I think I might just copy and paste Emperor's entire response into my bio. It is S66 level priceless.


What makes you think that Revan in his prime can contend with Sidious in his prime?

Obviously Revan isn't more powerful, but he can certainly contend given his hype and feats. He's among the greatest Sith, Jedi, and Force-Users in history for a reason.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
1. The hero of Typhon and Revan have feats that can match Sidious? What are they. I'm going to be honest with you I hate Revan, and dislike vitiate. However this is fact, those two are not ranked as high up as Sidious if you can prove they are I doubt you can.
Hero of Tython (HoT) is recognized as the most powerful Jedi of his era and have defeated famous warriors including Darth Angral, Lord Praven, Emperor's Wrath and famous sorcerers including Lord Fulminiss. He also facilitated Voss inhabitants in overcoming a powerful entity and was the only Jedi who stood a chance at striking down the weakened Voice of the Emperor. HoT martial showings include blitzing competent Sith Assassins on two separate occasions and victory over some of the finest lightsaber combatants among the Sith; Emperor's Wrath being among them, a warrior with over a 1000 Jedi and Sith kills under his belt. And Lord Fulminiss once destroyed an entire city.

Revan stomped a Dark Council member who had defeated Meetra Surik and Lord Scourge earlier, cut a swath through defenses of Star Forge and outdueled Darth Malak, tolerate tortures in captivity for centuries, cheated death, and held his own against arguably the most formidable Strike Team ever assembled in a battle on Yavin IV.

Both HoT and Revan have showings that only a Jedi of Yoda's caliber is expected to perform.

Darth Sidious is likely stronger but HoT and Revan can prove to be a decent challenge for him.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
2. They maybe impressive but Sidious is still factually better. Anyone who places Vitiate above Sidious is mistaken as Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. Vitiate is considered the most powerful Sith of his time. While I don't just say he has nothing to his name, he is not on the level of the masters of the true cannon and NJO skywalkers.
Again, you are stuck in the past. You need a latest sourcebook to prove Sidious' superiority over Vitiate, a sourcebook in which both are mentioned and fully explored. You won't find such a source yet.

Characters are often promoted as being the most powerful, until newer content arrives that may invalidate their promotions. A lore which expands non-stop, consistency in promotion becomes important.

Vitiate combat showings include defeating an entire Dark Council (12 of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy), and some of the greatest warriors of the Jedi Order including HoT and Revan. Other feats include surviving and controlling the outcome of the most dangerous ritual ever attempted (on planet Medriaas), becoming immortal, creating a nexus of the dark side, corrupting the environment of an entire planet Dromund Kaas, influencing hundreds of Force-users on galactic scale (i.e. Children), effectively concealing the identity of Children from the Jedi Order for centuries (via First Son), possessing individuals on planetary-scale (on planet Ziost), feeding on the life force of individuals and their deaths on planetary-scale (on Ziost), and killing an entire planet (i.e. Ziost). These are easily among the best demonstrations of Force ability in the mythos.

I am sorry but Masters of Canon and NJO era characters hold no candle to Vitiate. Only Sidious competes in showings.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
3. Do those strike teams have anything against Caedus Sidious Luke The Ones, dooku even Windu or yoda.
That Jedi Strike Team comprised of some of the most powerful Jedi of the Order including HoT. And HoT's feats are summed above for you.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
4. Nonsense, Sidious is and always will be the most powerful sith holed of all time. Vitiate being the most powerful force weilder is also nonsense as that title is held by Luke Skywalker as stated by George Lucas and by feats Luke is greater. Jacen Solo, Sidious, Yoda, Dooku, Even vader would have greater power in the force.
You are wrong. Luke Skywalker have never been hyped as the most powerful Force-user of the mythos in official sources. George Lucas is now irrelevant, Disney now owns rights to Star Wars and decides what it is true or not.

This is how Luke is promoted in Legends continuity content:

Even Luke's strength in the Force cannot help. The most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy can only stand by and watch his wife die.

Taken from Star Wars: The New Jedi Order Sourcebook

"Luke Skywalker is still the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. I think we should assume he has a plan," Jaina said..

Taken from Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Vortex

And Disney have revised hype of Anakin Skywalker:

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force.

Taken from Star Wars: Official Databank

Vitiate have better feats then Luke Skywalker.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
5. So now you ignore how palpatine can accomplish what it took vitiate weeks of preparation and other Sith to accomplish. Shameful. Just understand one thing. The Son is not a Sith in a manner of speaking as he says he is a Sith but he isn't a Sith. As the the Son is dead he is a thing of the past and so are the ones so Sidious still stands as the most powerful dark sider. Vitiate can't compare to Sidious.
Palpatine have never killed a planet, all we have is a claim of Luke Skywalker that Force Storm can kill a planet. Also, you are referring to the Nathema ritual that took place on planet Medriaas. I provided evidence of Vitiate (single-handedly) killing a planet (i.e. Ziost). Did you check the footage?

This is what happens when you don't play SWTOR. You are absolutely clueless about Vitiate related developments and his latest showings.

Vitiate have superior showings then Sidious.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
6. All I have to say to rest of that is no I haven't played SWTOR. However I do know that vitiate can't compete with Sidious. I know for a fact that in terms of the force Satele Revan the Hero of Typhon any Jedi master of that time can't compete with Sidious in terms of the force. He is the most powerful Sith/practioner of all time. Vitiate is a thing of the past while Sidious is the new and better version. Sidious has a thousand years of Sith learning. Everything From Darth Bane to Darth Plaguis Sidious knows, that includes what vitiate did as bane and o doubt Zannah researched ancient Sith to learn of arcane powers ( Zannah with Sith sorcery ) that would lead to palpatine knowing a good deal of Sith Magic, but preffering the more agrees ice TK side of it with force lightning.
Then you shouldn't be ranking SWTOR characters because you don't have knowledge of their capabilities and feats.

Vitiate > Sidious by virtue of available evidence.

Sidious has a thousand years of Sith learning? Sidious did not live for thousand years. He had acquired lot of knowledge, but Vitiate still had advantage. Vitiate have lived for over a millennium and explored the most sinister and uncharted depths of the Dark Side.

In his relentless pursuit of immortality, the Emperor explored the most sinister, uncharted depths of the dark side.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Vitiate is also stated to be the living embodiment of the Dark Side and almost godlike being.

Also, you know about Darth Gravid, a Bannite Sith? If not, then do some reading on him.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Son>Sidious>Vitiate
Based on feats, they are comparable. But Vitiate have best showings yet. Your ranking is subjective.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Based on feats, they are comparable. But Vitiate have best showings yet. Your ranking is subjective.

Of course what else would we expect from someone's who's picture is Lord Vitiate. Anyway his ranking is 100% correct. The Son is the most powerful Dark Side user ( using only the dark side ) than Sidious comes in 2nd and with this competition Vitiate would come in third per this competition, however you put all the Sith in this competiton he would be knocked down am few ranks of more.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Obviously Revan isn't more powerful, but he can certainly contend given his hype and feats. He's among the greatest Sith, Jedi, and Force-Users in history for a reason.

I can live with that. However if the two fought it wouldn't be just an exceedingly long battle as palpatine can just brain wash them. Also his powers in the force are overwhelming.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
However if the two fought it wouldn't be just an exceedingly long battle as palpatine can just brain wash them.
Revan's willpower > anyone else in the mythos bar Mortis, to be entirely honest. I doubt even the people who hate Revan here will disagree.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan's willpower > anyone else in the mythos bar Mortis, to be entirely honest. I doubt even the people who hate Revan here will disagree.


Find me a single fan other than you that would agree with this notion.

Have them post it here, please.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan's willpower > anyone else in the mythos bar Mortis, to be entirely honest. I doubt even the people who hate Revan here will disagree. Why bar Mortis, Ant?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Find me a single fan other than you that would agree with this notion.

Have them post it here, please.
NewGuy01. :iwin: He said he at least has Revan in the top three - probably higher.

Ah, also try Aurbere, Skillz, ILS and Nephthys maybe too as among at least the top 3.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
NewGuy01. :iwin: He said he at least has Revan in the top three - probably higher.

Ah, also try Aurbere, Skillz, ILS and Nephthys maybe too as among at least the top 3.



Revan's mental resistance feats are some of the best ever.

Eh, he's among the best. I can think of better, but not many.

Originally posted by Aurbere


Revan's mental resistance feats are some of the best ever.
http://r30.imgfast.net/users/3013/11/32/39/smiles/1742136542.gif

Originally posted by Selenial
I can think of better, but not many.
http://r30.imgfast.net/users/3013/11/32/39/smiles/1790400411.gif

Originally posted by Selenial
Eh, he's among the best.
http://r30.imgfast.net/users/3013/11/32/39/smiles/1742136542.gif

S66, I desperately want to see you make an argument that Revan is mentally weak. Plz share.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Obviously Revan isn't more powerful, but he can certainly contend given his hype and feats. He's among the greatest Sith, Jedi, and Force-Users in history for a reason.


Those same reasons couldn't prevent Sidious from strangling Dooku from across the galaxy.

Where's that debate you promised? Lol

Not necessarily.

You mean the debate I asked, and you then went AFK for a week afterwards? mmm?
What was the debate on anyway, BTW? Was it Dooku or Ventress?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not necessarily.

You mean the debate I asked, and you then went AFK for a week afterwards? mmm?
What was the debate on anyway, BTW? Was it Dooku or Ventress?


I've been on since then, just not posting. Regardless you were supposed to create the thread like the next day and start it off.

For some reason you wanted Ventress.

Damn, Ant be missing me.

Ah, well you should have sent me a PM. I was kinda waiting on you to come back from your monthly exodus.

I'll pass and take Dooku.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ah, well you should have sent me a PM. I was kinda waiting on you to come back from your monthly exodus.

I'll pass and take Dooku.


People tend to wait on the people they miss.

You're the one who wanted the debate; you should be the one doing the PMing.

Whatever pleases you.

Wednesday it is.

You didn't answer my question Ant, that makes me sad.

Good.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Wednesday it is.


Start it off whenever. Point by point I won't be able to get to until the night. I mean, you're not in a rush are you?

If I was in a rush, I would have started it months ago.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
If I was in a rush, I would have started it months ago.


You had this planned out months ago?

I'm off on Friday, but I'll have my nephew most of the day. I'll be home, though, and more free for more detailed responses.

And I was referring to time gaps between responses, not when you start.

I don't really care for time gaps considering final exams are coming out.

Originally posted by Selenial
Eh, he's among the best. I can think of better, but not many.

Who in particular?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
S66, I desperately want to see you make an argument that Revan is mentally weak. Plz share.


He has one of the strongest wills in the mythos, why would I argue otherwise. And why are you so desperate?

So far, even your friend states he has SOME of the best mental resistant feats. Not too clear, TBH. Unless the thumbs up means he agrees with your statement.

Mental resistance isn't the only way to establish one's willpower.

Ok, so none of them posted in agreement yet.

I consider it an agreement if they put him in the top three, tbh.

I haven't agreed yet because I'm having trouble thinking up rivals for him. Total mind blank. Hence why I asked Sel for who she thinks is better. I might be like OH SHIT YEAH!

But she's probably just gonna say Meetra, lol.

DMB be like "Dawth Bayne" tbh.