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Standard fight

Two Rounds:

Round 1: Cap gets his shield
Round 2: Pure h2h



At this point do people still believe Ozy can beat Cap? I'm truly curious.

Cap takes care of business

Like pooping?

Cap wins, and with the shield this is spite.

Ozy

Ozy is so overrated. Cap has more and much better feats, he stomps.

Originally posted by carver9
Ozy

Try watching the movies before commenting on them.

Cap has enough feats now that put him above Ozymandias that he wins with or without shield

IMO: If Cap gets his standard weapon (ie shield), Ozy should get his standard (ie prep); with prep Ozy lol-stomps.

Rob is correct that Ozy would stomp with Prep. Agree totally there.

Though I do disagree that Cap beats Ozy h2h in a straight up fight. I think Ozy is on a whole other skill level than Cap and that would be the difference. He might not be quite as strong or durable.. but he's clearly faster and more skilled. To me, those make the bigger difference in a fight. Though it would be a stomp, and likely it would be a 6/10 kinda think for ozy

IIRC, Cap was taking hits to his body from Ultron when they fought on top of the truck; with that level of durability I doubt Ozy could do little more than bruise him now.

If Cap's power-scaling keeps up as it has been, by Avengers Civil War part II he'll be able to take on the Hulk.

Cap was taking shots to the body and face on top of the truck and inside the subway train as well. The worst that happened was he needed a few seconds to catch his breath.

Originally posted by carver9
Ozy

What???

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Rob is correct that Ozy would stomp with Prep. Agree totally there.

Though I do disagree that Cap beats Ozy h2h in a straight up fight. I think Ozy is on a whole other skill level than Cap and that would be the difference. He might not be quite as strong or durable.. but he's clearly faster and more skilled. To me, those make the bigger difference in a fight. Though it would be a stomp, and likely it would be a 6/10 kinda think for ozy

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
What???

See: Phangurlz

cap took punches to the face from Bucky's cyber arm, the same arm that punched a hole through a paved road

Cap could take Ozymandias' best punch to the face with a wink and a smile.

That's how this fight played out since Avengers. The latest film just made it even more obvious.

Don't forget, Cap wasn't really trying against Bucky, Cap was trying to talk him down, not hurt him etc... It wasn't till the end where he had to disable Bucky.

Originally posted by Robtard
IIRC, Cap was taking hits to his body from Ultron when they fought on top of the truck; with that level of durability I doubt Ozy could do little more than bruise him now.

If Cap's power-scaling keeps up as it has been, by Avengers Civil War part II he'll be able to take on the Hulk.

Yeah, he keeps getting stronger and more durable movie after movie. Who knows where he'll be out after 2 more

well if ozy has prep than cap does to

doesn't matter anyway

This would go like Steve's fight with Batroc tbh. Competitive to an extent for a few seconds until Steve gets annoyed. Or it might end in one hit if Steve feels like it.

He's so far beyond street level characters now. He dragged a dude around and tossed him one handed through a tree while on a bike with utter ease. Not even remotely comparable stats at this point.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Rob is correct that Ozy would stomp with Prep. Agree totally there.

Though I do disagree that Cap beats Ozy h2h in a straight up fight. I think Ozy is on a whole other skill level than Cap and that would be the difference. He might not be quite as strong or durable.. but he's clearly faster and more skilled. To me, those make the bigger difference in a fight. Though it would be a stomp, and likely it would be a 6/10 kinda think for ozy

Ozymandias isn't more skilled much less to a greater degree (Re: Winter Soldier). Doubt he's faster too.

Not quite as strong or as durable? Bit of an understatement there man.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This would go like Steve's fight with Batroc tbh. Competitive to an extent for a few seconds until Steve gets annoyed. Or it might end in one hit if Steve feels like it.

He's so far beyond street level characters now. He dragged a dude around and tossed him one handed through a tree while on a bike with utter ease. Not even remotely comparable stats at this point.



Ozymandias isn't more skilled much less to a greater degree (Re: Winter Soldier). Doubt he's faster too.

Not quite as strong or as durable? Bit of an understatement there man.

I think you need to refresh a little bit my friend on Oxy. Go watch his scenes against the Watchman (above humans as well) The skill he shows is effortless and beyond anything Cap has ever shown. Decisively so at that. Their skill levels aren't comparable really. Yes, he's faster as well... not decisively so like skill, but to me marginally faster. Yeah Cap is more durable, no doubt about it. Same with strength... yes he's stronger as well. To me though, this is a very competitive fight, which you don't seem to believe. We disagree on that.

if you view this video... and notice of easily and effortlessly Ozy deals with them without them landing a blow really. Cap's gotten hit by far weaker people. in skill, they aren't comparable really.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnGA8uu8T0
He's pretty darn fast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG7ptX0WhPA

In the end, Cap seems to be getting more powerful as time goes on, so you're correct in that its' starting to Favor Cap the more movies come out. However, if we just looked at The First Avenger... It would be Ozy very clearly and decisively. If we include The Avengers it becomes closer but still Ozy. Now, you could be correct in that it's swung in Cap's favor after AOU... maybe.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
the Watchman (above humans as well)

What makes you think this?

Originally posted by Inhuman
What makes you think this? It might have something to do with them consistently performing superhuman feats.

Captain wins, easily and comfortably.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It might have something to do with them consistently performing superhuman feats.

I've argued this point before.

You can put Black widow, hawkeye, the transporter, jason bourne, and various other very skilled, very human movie characters in place of the watchmen (sans Dr.Manhattan, ozy), and they would be able to replicate those same feats they did in that movie. All with the same Snyder slo-mo fx's.
Even if it appears in some scenes "slight" flashes of what can be argued as super human feats for any of the watchmen and the people I posted, they are in still in fact not super human.

If you say they are "constantly" performing super human feats then elaborate because i didn't see anything that would "Clearly" put them in the super human category.
Black Widow has done some insane stuff and still I wouldn't say she is superhuman.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Rob is correct that Ozy would stomp with Prep. Agree totally there.

Though I do disagree that Cap beats Ozy h2h in a straight up fight. I think Ozy is on a whole other skill level than Cap and that would be the difference. He might not be quite as strong or durable.. but he's clearly faster and more skilled. To me, those make the bigger difference in a fight. Though it would be a stomp, and likely it would be a 6/10 kinda think for ozy This.

Ozy won pretty handily back in 'the day' but Cap has been getting more and more powerful with every showing. I still give it to Ozy 6/10 (maybe in 50/50), but Civil War will likely tip the scales in his favor.

It's fun to see people low balling Cap, he is getting ready to fight Ironman in the next movie & he took a tank round to the chest.

In the words of Thor "you are all so petty, & small"

Originally posted by Inhuman
I've argued this point before. And you were just as wrong then as you are now.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And you were just as wrong then as you are now.

So elaborate on your point. If im wrong you should have no problem proving the watchmen (sans Manhattan and ozy) were super human.

Originally posted by Inhuman
I've argued this point before.

You can put Black widow, hawkeye, the transporter, jason bourne, and various other very skilled, very human movie characters in place of the watchmen (sans Dr.Manhattan, ozy), and they would be able to replicate those same feats they did in that movie. All with the same Snyder slo-mo fx's.
Even if it appears in some scenes "slight" flashes of what can be argued as super human feats for any of the watchmen and the people I posted, they are in still in fact not super human.

If you say they are "constantly" performing super human feats then elaborate because i didn't see anything that would "Clearly" put them in the super human category.
Black Widow has done some insane stuff and still I wouldn't say she is superhuman.

This is correct.

That analogy isn't correct at all, and that is where it falls painfully short. Just because people "appear" to be able to pull off something someone else did, doesn't make it so because of so many factors. creative style, fight choreography, film budget etc etc. Imagine seeing Kit Fisto fighting Storm Troopers and blocking all their fire. Yet, that was one of his only movie feats. You could say, look Anakin isn't the only one who could do that, Fisto has similar feats of blocking laser fire. Geez doesn't it look like they are moving their saber at the same speed to block laser fire. Yet we know Vader is above fisto in pretty much every regard. Your competition can greatly determine how you'll come across. The Watchman never needed to really push themselves or test themselves. So we can't determine something was their peak level when they never needed to try to attain it. We know the abilities they have and are capable of.

while others could appeared to be as fast or as this, doesn't make it so for the reason above.

Cap punches ozy in the face, he spits a few teeth and dies. The end.

The bottom line is, Cap wins.

Originally posted by Inhuman
So elaborate on your point. If im wrong you should have no problem proving the watchmen (sans Manhattan and ozy) were super human.

Jumping in:

Rorschack having his head kicked as if it were a soccer ball and sent flying is probably well above what a normal human could survive.

Originally posted by Robtard
Jumping in:

Rorschack having his head kicked as if it were a soccer ball and sent flying is probably well above what a normal human could survive.

Like i said these guys have "flashes" of what can be considered super human traits.
imo- nothing consistent to put them in that category.
Just like Black widow, the transporter, Jason Statham characters... Still all these guys are more of less regular "very skilled" humans.


Based on that and what the Watchmen comic & movie are basically about: A world with no super powered people suddenly has a true super powered being among them"
Saying that all the watchmen were in fact superhuman goes against what watchmen is all about.
Even if we ignore that, and base it only on on screen feats; I still dont see consistent feats or stuff that these characters are performing that would "clearly" put them in the superhuman category.

I just dont see how slight flashes of above human feats means that they go in the "full on super human " category.
In that case the movie supe humans list would be immense if it was so easy to label them as that. And most action movie stars that have similar feats would now be superhuman. It would be a short list of action stars that are actually "not" superhuman.

People like david blaine would be super human in the real world with his "pushing his body to the limits" tricks and stunts, that he is actually just conditioning his mind and body most of the time.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The Watchman never needed to really push themselves or test themselves. So we can't determine something was their peak level when they never needed to try to attain it. We know the abilities they have and are capable of.
while others could appeared to be as fast or as this, doesn't make it so for the reason above.

When the watchmen actually faced some one with legit super powers like Ozy (probably a bit below cap level), they got stomped.
So if they were "superhuman" they wouldn't have been toyed with and owned so easy. And its not like Ozy is like leagues above a peak human. Like I said he would be a bit below Cap in my book.

So that scene played out like it should. A person who was super powered(ozy) (even though its on the lower tier of super powered folk) , manhandles very skilled but ultimately human foes.
So to answer your question, when the watchmen actually pushed themselves with someone who was actually above human, they didnt fare so well.
why? because they were just regular humans. Very skilled humans, but just humans.

You gotta be kidding me. Ozy beat up a couple of decently skilled humans in Nite-Owl and Rorschach while Captain America shrugs off punches from Ulton and throws motorcycles at cars. Come on people.

Cap wins with little trouble.

Hard fight for Cap, but H2H is in Caps favour. Ozy is probably more technically skilled on the martial arts front in regards to proficiency in particular styles, but judging by the end fight with him against the two, he wont be displaying anything Cap hasnt seen before. Same with Cap, he wont be showing Ozy anything his quick brain wont have seen, but, the things Ozy cant see are Caps enhanced stats, durability alone is 3 or 4 fold, almost limitless stamina, strength is a lock and speed, debatable, but Ozys level is hard to gauge just because of Snyders film style. Cap will win eventually, he will adapt to the fight better, its not just his body that is super soldiery. Ozy makes Cap work harder than anyone Cap has fought thus far, id say Ozy takes WS with hard work, and Cap takes Ozy with harder work. Good fight though.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Hard fight for Cap, but H2H is in Caps favour. Ozy is probably more technically skilled on the martial arts front in regards to proficiency in particular styles, but judging by the end fight with him against the two, he wont be displaying anything Cap hasnt seen before. Same with Cap, he wont be showing Ozy anything his quick brain wont have seen, but, the things Ozy cant see are Caps enhanced stats, durability alone is 3 or 4 fold, almost limitless stamina, strength is a lock and speed, debatable, but Ozys level is hard to gauge just because of Snyders film style. Cap will win eventually, he will adapt to the fight better, its not just his body that is super soldiery. Ozy makes Cap work harder than anyone Cap has fought thus far, id say Ozy takes WS with hard work, and Cap takes Ozy with harder work. Good fight though. I agree with most of this except I believe Ozy wins after a super tough fight. maybe not, it's a tough call in the end. Cap's durability gives me pause, as he very well could take all that Ozy can dish out and keep coming. It's possible. I just believe Ozy is CLEARLY and DEFINATIVELY superior in h2h kills. This isn't debatable imo. I also believe speed is in Ozy favor again. Those two things make me believe he has the edge. Plus when you look at them fighting against trained fighters... Ozy doesn't even get hit, Cap does. It just shows how skilled Ozy is

Originally posted by tkitna
You gotta be kidding me. Ozy beat up a couple of decently skilled humans in Nite-Owl and Rorschach while Captain America shrugs off punches from Ulton and throws motorcycles at cars. Come on people.

Cap wins with little trouble.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Inhuman
When the watchmen actually faced some one with legit super powers like Ozy (probably a bit below cap level), they got stomped.
So if they were "superhuman" they wouldn't have been toyed with and owned so easy. And its not like Ozy is like leagues above a peak human. Like I said he would be a bit below Cap in my book.

So that scene played out like it should. A person who was super powered(ozy) (even though its on the lower tier of super powered folk) , manhandles very skilled but ultimately human foes.
So to answer your question, when the watchmen actually pushed themselves with someone who was actually above human, they didnt fare so well.
why? because they were just regular humans. Very skilled humans, but just humans.

You didn't quote most of my post because of the implications it makes and shows. One might think Kit fisto is just as fast.. just as powerful as Anakin because it shows him killing Stormtroopers with just as much ease... seemingly moving his saber just as fast.. seemingly the same pre cog.... If we only went by how it looked... we could draw such a conclusion. Yet we know Fisto is below Anakin in virtually every way. How something appears on screen can be greatly influenced by creative design.. budget... fight choreography etc etc. No BW shouldn't be able to do as well as they did or what they did.

Ozymandias' greatest feats of strength:

-Picking up and throwing a 220+ lbs guy through plate-glass

-Kicking a 160ish lbs guy like a soccer ball

-Jumping 20ish feet

While very impressive and super-human, I don't see that being enough to put down Cap who has taken hits from Ultron; who was at one point was trading punches with Thor; who at one point was trading punches with Hulk; who at one point destroyed a Leviathan ship with a punch.

That analogy kinda falls short there rob, you can't powerscale like that with totally opposite characters and abilities. I get the point you were making, and while true, I just don't think it can be made that way. It implies Cap can keep up with Ultron, Thor or Hulk, and we all know that isn't true. The reality is, Ozy dealt with super humans easier than Cap did, Ozy dealt with normal trained humans easier than Cap did. Those are the comparable feats. My concern is Cap's durability and strength to some degree, but most durability. I'm not entirely convinced ozy could hurt him enough for consistent wins. Just not sure about that. Skills and speed I'm very sure Ozy is his superior

Originally posted by Robtard
Ozymandias' greatest feats of strength:

-Picking up and throwing a 220+ lbs guy through plate-glass

-Kicking a 160ish lbs guy like a soccer ball

-Jumping 20ish feet

While very impressive and super-human, I don't see that being enough to put down Cap who has taken hits from Ultron; who was at one point was trading punches with Thor; who at one point was trading punches with Hulk; who at one point destroyed a Leviathan ship with a punch.


The funny/sad thing is that Cap either matches or beats all those feats in his first movie and he's only gotten better since then and yet some people still seem to think that either Cap is only very slightly stronger or that Ozy still has the edge.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That analogy kinda falls short there rob, you can't powerscale like that with totally opposite characters and abilities. I get the point you were making, and while true, I just don't think it can be made that way. It implies Cap can keep up with Ultron, Thor or Hulk, and we all know that isn't true. The reality is, Ozy dealt with super humans easier than Cap did, Ozy dealt with normal trained humans easier than Cap did. Those are the comparable feats. My concern is Cap's durability and strength to some degree, but most durability. I'm not entirely convinced ozy could hurt him enough for consistent wins. Just not sure about that. Skills and speed I'm very sure Ozy is his superior

Except of course Cap did keep up with Ultron, if only momentarily. See: Avengers: AOU. There's no implying, it was shown.

I also reject your "Ozy dealt with super-humans more easily". The Chitauri ground troops were super-human in states. Proof: strong enough to claw/climb into buildings is "super-human." Cap was tearing through them. Also see above: Ultron is clearly super-duper human in stats.

Originally posted by Robtard
Except of course Cap did keep up with Ultron, if only momentarily. See: Avengers: AOU. There's no implying, it was shown.

I also reject your "Ozy dealt with super-humans more easily". The Chitauri ground troops were super-human in states. Proof: strong enough to claw/climb into buildings is "super-human." Cap was tearing through them. Also see above: Ultron is clearly super-duper human in stats.

That isn't how we use the term "keeping up with someone" though. Momentarily keeping up with someone is just that, momentarily. I could face Mike Tyson in his prime, and actually try and get off first and land the first blow. I could do so, and thus be, as you describe keeping up with him. Even though 1 second later I was KTFO. That isn't me keeping up with him. In order for me to call it that, I would have to keep up with him for a few rounds... maybe even half the fight. Losing most of the time but having my moments. That isn't what happened with Ultron and Cap... he was outclassed and this was made obvious. The Chitauri have no h2h feats to speak of though. They did virtually nothing in this area. To try and extrapolate that someone they'd also be prodigious h2h combats it's taking the slipper slope a bit too far. They honestly weren't impressive in that regard imo. So my feeling that Ozy did better against super humans seems to be more true than not. Not to say Cap doesn't have good showings as well, it just wasn't done with the ease Ozy did it with, and I think you can at least agree on that point for whatever it's worth

Originally posted by Robtard
Except of course Cap did keep up with Ultron, if only momentarily. See: Avengers: AOU. There's no implying, it was shown.

I also reject your "Ozy dealt with super-humans more easily". The Chitauri ground troops were super-human in states. Proof: strong enough to claw/climb into buildings is "super-human." Cap was tearing through them. Also see above: Ultron is clearly super-duper human in stats.

Don't forget the Ultron bots he was literally tearing apart with his bare hands in some instances, who themselves were busting out through rock, concrete etc. when they first attacked during the final battle. Hell, Maria Hill unloaded with her pistol into one, hitting it multiple times, and it did nothing to the drone. Fury had to split its head open to kill it. Just because the Avengers handled the drones well doesn't mean they were weak. They were clearly still stronger, more durable etc. than any human opponent would be.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The funny/sad thing is that Cap either matches or beats all those feats in his first movie and he's only gotten better since then and yet some people still seem to think that either Cap is only very slightly stronger or that Ozy still has the edge.

Question, do you believe Cap is just as skilled as Ozy

Do you believe Cap is as fast s Ozy?

Doesn't mean you believe he wins, I'm just curious if you think Cap is his superior in these areas

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That isn't how we use the term "keeping up with someone" though. Momentarily keeping up with someone is just that, momentarily. I could face Mike Tyson in his prime, and actually try and get off first and land the first blow. I could do so, and thus be, as you describe keeping up with him. Even though 1 second later I was KTFO. That isn't me keeping up with him. In order for me to call it that, I would have to keep up with him for a few rounds... maybe even half the fight. Losing most of the time but having my moments. That isn't what happened with Ultron and Cap... he was outclassed and this was made obvious. The Chitauri have no h2h feats to speak of though. They did virtually nothing in this area. To try and extrapolate that someone they'd also be prodigious h2h combats it's taking the slipper slope a bit too far. They honestly weren't impressive in that regard imo. So my feeling that Ozy did better against super humans seems to be more true than not. Not to say Cap doesn't have good showings as well, it just wasn't done with the ease Ozy did it with, and I think you can at least agree on that point for whatever it's worth

LoL, no. Mike Tyson (even now) would floor you with one punch; the first and only punch of the match and that would be the end of it; that is far different than what happened in the Cap Vs Ultron fight. Cap traded blows and held his own, if even for a short time. Considering how powerful Ultron was, that is extremely impressive showing for Cap. not a negative.

Your down playing of Cap is getting outright ridiculous now.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You didn't quote most of my post because of the implications it makes and shows. One might think Kit fisto is just as fast.. just as powerful as Anakin because it shows him killing Stormtroopers with just as much ease... seemingly moving his saber just as fast.. seemingly the same pre cog.... If we only went by how it looked... we could draw such a conclusion. Yet we know Fisto is below Anakin in virtually every way. How something appears on screen can be greatly influenced by creative design.. budget... fight choreography etc etc.

I knew what you were trying to say. Thats why i responded with what i did.
You are trying to say there are different levels to above peak human, etc. i get it.
But if Ozy is a bit over peak human and cap is now well over peak human, you are saying the watchmen are above peak human, but below ozy?
If we get into unlimited tiers it gets ridiculous.

Just for the sake of the argument lets say if you can lift 800 pounds youre are peak human.
what im saying is that above human:

tier 1 is like 800-1000
tier 2 1000 to 1500
tier 3 1500 to 2000
tier 4 2000 to 3000
etc

what you are trying to say is like..

tier 1 is 801
tier 2 is 802
tier 3 is 803
tier 4 is 804

and so forth.

this is probably not a great example but I hope you get what im trying to say. im short for time atm.
Anyhow, if we go by that lenient scale then very FEW actions stars would be considered normal. mostly all of them would be superhuman to you.

Anyhow can you explain what makes you think that the watchmen(sans. oxy and dr.m) were superhuman? Not just very skilled humans.



Also do you think Black Widow is super human?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Question, do you believe Cap is just as skilled as Ozy

Do you believe Cap is as fast s Ozy?

Doesn't mean you believe he wins, I'm just curious if you think Cap is his superior in these areas

Judging by Ozy's actual fights, I don't think he has enough of an edge in either to make up for Cap's massive strength and durability edge.

Let me see here. Ozy beat up the Comedian who was pretty skilled (Not close to Batroc skilled in my opinion, but still pretty skilled), Nite-Owl (who beat up a few prison and alley thugs with help), and Rorschach (who got captured by 6 or so city cops). Hell Cap did better then that just in the elevator fighting the dozen or so trained shield agents that were using advanced weapons.

I really cant see any way possible for Ozy to win this fight unless he plans for it, and that's even without the shield.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, no. Mike Tyson (even now) would floor you with one punch; the first and only punch of the match and that would be the end of it; that is far different than what happened in the Cap Vs Ultron fight. Cap traded blows and held his own, if even for a short time. Considering how powerful Ultron was, that is extremely impressive showing for Cap. not a negative.

Your down playing of Cap is getting outright ridiculous now.

Of course he would and he'd KO me... but that doesn't change me being able to throw the first punch and land it maybe and thus go.. according to your line of logic.. "I kept up with him" even momentarily. That is my problem and what we are discussing here. Cap didn't keep up with Ultron. When something is momentary or fleeting.. the correct term isn't keeping up with them. That implies a level of parity.. and spirited competitive fight. His fight with Ultron was anything but that is my point

Ultron would have easily killed Ozy.

Originally posted by tkitna
Let me see here. Ozy beat up the Comedian who was pretty skilled (Not close to Batroc skilled in my opinion, but still pretty skilled), Nite-Owl (who beat up a few prison and alley thugs with help), and Rorschach (who got captured by 6 or so city cops). Hell Cap did better then that just in the elevator fighting the dozen or so trained shield agents that were using advanced weapons.

I really cant see any way possible for Ozy to win this fight unless he plans for it, and that's even without the shield.

No cap didn't, he did worse against normal humans or peak humans than Ozy did is the point. Imagine how Cap was stabbed twice by normal humans. Can you even imagine that being done to ozy? I can't, not for a second. It wasn't that the watchman were OMGZORZ unbelievable!! It was the utmost ease in which he handled them. They didn't even land a single blow. Yet we have normal well trained humans having little to no issue landing on Cap multiple times. THAT is the difference in skill I'm speaking of, and it's very clear.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Of course he would and he'd KO me... but that doesn't change me being able to throw the first punch and land it maybe and thus go.. according to your line of logic.. "I kept up with him" even momentarily. That is my problem and what we are discussing here. Cap didn't keep up with Ultron. When something is momentary or fleeting.. the correct term is keeping up with them. That implies a level of parity.. and spirited competitive fight. His fight with Ultron was anything but that is my point

You're using a very inaccurate analogy: You're comparing a fight were one opponent throws one punch before being KO'd Vs a fight were one opponent is capable of exchanging blows and hanging for a short length of time.

Cap clearly did more than "just throw a punch" figuratively speaking with his fight with Ultron. He factually held his own for a bit, exchanged attacks and even managed to damage Ultron. That's a plus for Cap, all things considered.

What you're doing is called downplaying. Stop it.

Originally posted by Inhuman
I knew what you were trying to say. Thats why i responded with what i did.
You are trying to say there are different levels to above peak human, etc. i get it.
But if Ozy is a bit over peak human and cap is now well over peak human, you are saying the watchmen are above peak human, but below ozy?
If we get into unlimited tiers it gets ridiculous.

Just for the sake of the argument lets say if you can lift 800 pounds youre are peak human.
what im saying is that above human:

tier 1 is like 800-1000
tier 2 1000 to 1500
tier 3 1500 to 2000
tier 4 2000 to 3000
etc

what you are trying to say is like..

tier 1 is 801
tier 2 is 802
tier 3 is 803
tier 4 is 804

and so forth.

this is probably not a great example but I hope you get what im trying to say. im short for time atm.
Anyhow, if we go by that lenient scale then very FEW actions stars would be considered normal. mostly all of them would be superhuman to you.

Anyhow can you explain what makes you think that the watchmen(sans. oxy and dr.m) were superhuman? Not just very skilled humans.



Also do you think Black Widow is super human? I also get your point and your example. The problem is that you tried to say BW is superhuman.. and I don't agree with that. I think she's super skilled and thus she can look superhuman, but ultimately she's not. She's not more durable.. she's not stronger.. she doesn't have any cool powers. She's just really skilled. That skill can go a long ways, but that doesn't make her superhuman or even peak human stats wise.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're using a very inaccurate analogy: You're comparing a fight were one opponent throws one punch before being KO'd Vs a fight were one opponent is capable of exchanging blows and hanging for a short length of time.

Cap clearly did more than "just throw a punch" figuratively speaking with his fight with Ultron. He factually held his own for a bit and even managed to damage Ultron. That's a plus for Cap, all things considered.

What you're doing is called downplaying.

I get what you're saying, and it's a plus for Cap. no argument there. My only concern was with your use of the term "keep up with ultron" and then add momentarily to cover your bases. That could be used for so many things can't be describe as keeping up. For example.. the jaguars could keep in close in the first quarter against the packers and be only down 14 to 3.. and we could say they are keeping up with them. however, when the final score is 35 to 9... We wouldn't use the term keep up with them. Adding momentarily to it to try and make it correct doesn't change the use of the term "keep up with them" I would be 100% factual to say I kept up with Mike Tyson momentarily. Because I did. I landed a blow on him. However, that wouldn't be an accurate description of the fight or that I kept up with him. Same thing here.. Ultron clearly and decisively outclassed Cap and it was obvious he could never "keep up with him" . That is the point. Not trying to downplay Cap's feat, because it's good. His feats are getting better and better. That is why I'm hesitant about giving Ozy the win because of this increase in feats for Cap and his durability. Again, no issue with anybody picking Cap, I get it, I just wouldn't describe him as keeping up with Ultron is all.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No cap didn't, he did worse against normal humans or peak humans than Ozy did is the point. Imagine how Cap was stabbed twice by normal humans. Can you even imagine that being done to ozy? I can't, not for a second. It wasn't that the watchman were OMGZORZ unbelievable!! It was the utmost ease in which he handled them. They didn't even land a single blow. Yet we have normal well trained humans having little to no issue landing on Cap multiple times. THAT is the difference in skill I'm speaking of, and it's very clear.

Lol. Do you think Rorschach and Nite-Owl would hit Cap if he didn't want to be hit? The only difference between their fight with Ozy and a fight with Cap is that Cap could have killed either one with a single blow and I don't believe Ozy could do the same.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I get what you're saying, and it's a plus for Cap. no argument there. My only concern was with your use of the term "keep up with ultron" and then add momentarily to cover your bases. That could be used for so many things can't be describe as keeping up. For example.. the jaguars could keep in close in the first quarter against the packers and be only down 14 to 3.. and we could say they are keeping up with them. however, when the final score is 35 to 9... We wouldn't use the term keep up with them. Adding momentarily to it to try and make it correct doesn't change the use of the term "keep up with them" I would be 100% factual to say I kept up with Mike Tyson momentarily. Because I did. I landed a blow on him. However, that wouldn't be an accurate description of the fight or that I kept up with him. Same thing here.. Ultron clearly and decisively outclassed Cap and it was obvious he could never "keep up with him" . That is the point. Not trying to downplay Cap's feat, because it's good. His feats are getting better and better. That is why I'm hesitant about giving Ozy the win because of this increase in feats for Cap and his durability. Again, no issue with anybody picking Cap, I get it, I just wouldn't describe him as keeping up with Ultron is all.

Actually, I said "Except of course Cap did keep up with Ultron, if only momentarily." (look above) from the start, I didn't amend in "momentarily" to "cover my bases. Trading blows and managing to damage your opponent is exactly that, if only momentarily.

Again, your "one punch" analogy doesn't fit with what Cap factually did with Ultron.

You know Cap takes this, after AoU it's above and beyond evident. Just say it, you'll feel better.

Seriously, the only reason normal humans have ever given Cap trouble is because he's trying not to hurt them, I mean he was sending fully armored people flying with hits in his first movie. if he had hit the people in the elevator that hard they would have been sent flying to their death.

Whatever, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm taking the guy who normally fights superhumans, aliens, and killer robots while you choose the guy who beat up a few normal humans that barely register on any scale.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I also get your point and your example. The problem is that you tried to say BW is superhuman.. and I don't agree with that. I think she's super skilled and thus she can look superhuman, but ultimately she's not. She's not more durable.. she's not stronger.. she doesn't have any cool powers. She's just really skilled. That skill can go a long ways, but that doesn't make her superhuman or even peak human stats wise.

No. my point was that Black Widow is NOT super human. Even though she does some amazing things. Same with the watchmen (sans ozy and Dr.M)

Actually what you said in your post about BW is exactly what im saying about the watchmen

No I'd being 100% factually correct in saying I kept up with mike Tyson momentarily. A moment could be a second.. a half a second.. 10 seconds. What we know is that it's ever so brief. So I'd be a 1005 in saying that I kept up with him momentarily. Even though that isn't a good description of the fight. Same thing here, ultron clearly and decisively outclasses Cap. He simply can't keep up with him. That's the plain and simple truth of the matter.

I never said you added momentarily after you made your initial post. I said you added that to cover your bases to make that statement more correct. Which it did, but still doesn't make it a good or accurate description of the fight is my point.

I believe that after AOU.. yes, I can see Cap winning and have no issue with people picking him. He very well could win.

let me ask you this

Ozy vs. The first avenger Cap only

Ozy vs. The first avenger plus Winter soldier only

What are the ?/10 numbers you'd give for these fights

Originally posted by tkitna
Lol. Do you think Rorschach and Nite-Owl would hit Cap if he didn't want to be hit? The only difference between their fight with Ozy and a fight with Cap is that Cap could have killed either one with a single blow and I don't believe Ozy could do the same.

Wut??? Do I believe they would hit him? YES, and more than one. Multiple blows. How do you think they wouldn't. Less skilled fodder landed on Cap, yet people who decimated less skilled fodder wouldn't? Odd logical line of progression there Kitna... Comic book forum withdrawals?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wut??? Do I believe they would hit him? YES, and more than one. Multiple blows. How do you think they wouldn't. Less skilled fodder landed on Cap, yet people who decimated less skilled fodder wouldn't? Odd logical line of progression there Kitna... Comic book forum withdrawals?

I don't believe they would hit him because of 3 reasons.

1. First, one strike from Captain America would probably kill those two clowns (at the least rendering them unconscious) thus ending the fight within seconds.

2. He is vastly more skilled than a guy who beat up a few gangbangers and another that got taken captive by the city cops. Seriously, there is nothing impressive at all about Nite-Owl and Rorschach. I cant believe you think there is.

3. In this fight, Cap wont be holding back to just contain and defuse the situation. He'll be out for blood.


Its just staggering to me that you feel Ozy could take this fight. A better matchup would be Black Widow or even Netflix Daredevil, but movie Cap is so far out of Ozymandias's league that its not even funny. Not sure why its so hard for you to see.

Originally posted by tkitna
I don't believe they would hit him because of 3 reasons.

1. First, one strike from Captain America would probably kill those two clowns (at the least rendering them unconscious) thus ending the fight within seconds.

2. He is vastly more skilled than a guy who beat up a few gangbangers and another that got taken captive by the city cops. Seriously, there is nothing impressive at all about Nite-Owl and Rorschach. I cant believe you think there is.

3. In this fight, Cap wont be holding back to just contain and defuse the situation. He'll be out for blood.


Its just staggering to me that you feel Ozy could take this fight. A better matchup would be Black Widow or even Netflix Daredevil, but movie Cap is so far out of Ozymandias's league that its not even funny. Not sure why its so hard for you to see.

he may win now because of AOU feats... But he certainly wouldn't win after The First Avenger. Mostly likely not after WS either. So you're I CAN'T BELIEVE schtick is perplexing. It would be only as of very recently, that Cap would clearly win according to you, so no grandstanding needed here buddy.

The reality is this, and there is no getting around this fact, LESS SKILLED FODDER TAGGED CAP. MULTIPLE TIMES. On the other hand, people that treated fodder like feebs and decimated them couldn't land a single blow o Ozy. How you can't grasp this simple line of logical progression is beyond me. Cap was literally tagged multiple times by less skilled foes than people who couldn't land a blow on Ozy. That's the reality.

You're all quite off on my stance. I don't think people are way off for picking cap, nor do I disagree that he could take a majority. He could. So this whole notion that I can't see how Cap could win is simply not true. What I believe is, Ozy is faster and more skilled than Cap (decisively so in this area) and that could keep him in the fight and win him some fights. Simple.

This is way more impressive then anything Ozy can bring to the table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZNXTj6JW_E

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

The reality is this, and there is no getting around this fact, LESS SKILLED FODDER TAGGED CAP. MULTIPLE TIMES. On the other hand, people that treated fodder like feebs and decimated them couldn't land a single blow o Ozy. How you can't grasp this simple line of logical progression is beyond me. Cap was literally tagged multiple times by less skilled foes than people who couldn't land a blow on Ozy. That's the reality.



Who were these less skilled fodder you speak of? Trained military soldiers? Hydra Agents? Mercenaries? Surely your not talking about Shield Agents are you?

The best feats you can come up for Nite-Owl and Rorschach is that Nite-Owl went through a dozen or so prisoners with the help of Silk Spectre. A feat in which Captain America could do by himself in his sleep. Is that what impressed you so much? That Nite-Owl "decimated' 10 or so joe schmo thugs? Come on man.

Even the lowest people that Cap fought (military soldiers probably) aren't that far behind Nite-Owl.

Yes, and those same people not "far" behind Nite-Owl were able to hit Cap multiple times on different occasions. Yet, none of them were able to land a single blow on Ozy... Notice a decisive skill difference here?

Originally posted by tkitna
This is way more impressive then anything Ozy can bring to the table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZNXTj6JW_E

He'll ignore all of this and just pretend that Ozy displayed far more skill and fighting speed. Then he'll pretend that Ozy displayed enough strength to get past Cap's massive durability edge.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yes, and those same people not "far" behind Nite-Owl were able to hit Cap multiple times on different occasions. Yet, none of them were able to land a single blow on Ozy... Notice a decisive skill difference here? Batroc showed more speed, skill and atheticism than Nite-Owl, I suspect this is likely due to GSP being a highly ranked professional MMA fighter and Patrick Wilson being a regular guy/actor who put on a bunch of weight for a role.

Before you reply with "Batroc landed hits!", yes, he did, while Cap was holding back. After Cap stopped holding back, Batroc got his ass kicked in moments.

Ozy does have the edge on speed, but the reason it worked for him against Rorsh and Owl was because he didn't have to worry about them connecting, and when they did, didn't do much to him.

Where is Cap will connect either right away of shorty after and then will break Ozy. Bucky couldn't even KO him with his metal arm to the face with multiple hits, so how is Ozy going too?

His latest fight with Ultron proves even further that fists made of metal have little effect on him.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He'll ignore all of this and just pretend that Ozy displayed far more skill and fighting speed. Then he'll pretend that Ozy displayed enough strength to get past Cap's massive durability edge.

There is no pretending Ozy is more skilled or faster... Multiple people have said the same thing. Even people picking Cap to win admit Ozy is more skilled. How do I need to pretend anything shoes? His durability edge is why I'm hesitant to pick Ozy for a majority. If this fight was based on skill only... Ozy would decisively win.

Originally posted by Robtard
Batroc showed more speed, skill and atheticism than Nite-Owl, I suspect this is likely due to GSP being a highly ranked professional MMA fighter and Patrick Wilson being a regular guy/actor who put on a bunch of weight for a role.

Before you reply with "Batroc landed hits!", yes, he did, while Cap was holding back. After Cap stopped holding back, Batroc got his ass kicked in moments.

How do you rate the comedian then?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ozy does have the edge on speed, but the reason it worked for him against Rorsh and Owl was because he didn't have to worry about them connecting, and when they did, didn't do much to him.

Where is Cap will connect either right away of shorty after and then will break Ozy. Bucky couldn't even KO him with his metal arm to the face with multiple hits, so how is Ozy going too?

His latest fight with Ultron proves even further that fists made of metal have little effect on him.

that's just it though, they never really connected on him because of his skill and speed you speak of. That's the point I've been making. Yet people way less skilled than ozy were able to connect on Cap with limited issue. The only thing cap has going for him is his durability and stamina... these factors are in the favor of Cap and make me wonder if Ozy can do enough to hurt him

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How do you rate the comedian then?

He was little more than a skilled brawler on screen.

He threw a cup, went for his gun, got punched around, threw some punches, got punched around some more, threw a knife, threw another knife, got punched around some more. Definitely a formidable guy all things considered, but he didn't show speed, athleticism and skill like Batroc.

edit: "Skilled Brawler" might be a little too low for Comedian. But the scene played out pretty much how I listed it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
that's just it though, they never really connected on him because of his skill and speed you speak of. That's the point I've been making. Yet people way less skilled than ozy were able to connect on Cap with limited issue. The only thing cap has going for him is his durability and stamina... these factors are in the favor of Cap and make me wonder if Ozy can do enough to hurt him

There really is no comparison to Rorschach and Owl. Cap is leagues above them. Say Ozy dodges 8 out of 10 punches Cap throws, with those 2 he connects with are going to hurt, then the next 10 cap throws he dodges 6 outa 10. You see where this is going. The hits cap is putting out is like a pile driver and going to massively impact Ozy's continued fight because he is going to be in serious pain, from internal injuries, netting Cap the ultimate win.

Don't disagree with much there... The longer the fight goes it certainly will favor Cap. The big thing Ozy needs to overcome is the durability of Cap... and that is a tall order. As I said before

Ozy vs. The first avenger = Ozy convincingly

Ozy vs. WS + FA = Ozy after an excellent fight and not a dominate majority

Ozy vs. WS +FA + AOU = tough fight, Cap probably should be made the betting favorite because of his strength and durability. Probably in the realm of -60 to -140 vegas odds.

Even 1st Avenger Cap was capable of taking hits from Red Skull, who is strong enough to dent steel. But Ozymandias is breaking him with his fist and feet?

Guess the only real question here is, why do you hate America?

LOL I've lived here too long

Originally posted by Robtard
IMO: If Cap gets his standard weapon (ie shield), Ozy should get his standard (ie prep); with prep Ozy lol-stomps.

This logic makes no actual sense. So because Cap gets an item he routinely carries around Ozy should get prep?

Cap handily at this point.

Originally posted by Newjak
Cap handily at this point.

The most abysmal argument you ever put forward at this point. I'm disappointed you didn't try harder.

Originally posted by Surtur
This logic makes no actual sense. So because Cap gets an item he routinely carries around Ozy should get prep?

It makes all the actual senses, actually. In Watchmen (an utterly spectacular comic film), Ozymandias had Prep all the time, Prep is his standard gear.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
The most abysmal argument you ever put forward at this point. I'm disappointed you didn't try harder. Why would I at this point. Most of the relevant topics have been discussed already.

Originally posted by Newjak
Why would I at this point. Most of the relevant topics have been discussed already.

Meh.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/8/9/1344511024523/McKayla-Maroney--008.jpg

Originally posted by Robtard
It makes all the actual senses, actually. In Watchmen (an utterly spectacular comic film), Ozymandias had Prep all the time, Prep is his standard gear.

He had "prep all the time" because he was secretly the villain behind everything. Nobody even knew what he was doing until it was too late.

Originally posted by Surtur
He had "prep all the time" because he was secretly the villain behind everything. Nobody even knew what he was doing until it was too late.

So you agree. Good

Are there any Ozy fanboys that still think he wins?

Cap punches Ozy's face in.

Cap curbstomps.