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Savage vs. Hope Malgus. Battle takes place on Hypori.

Either way

Malgus imo

Probably due to lightning or something, Neither really has a telekinetic advantage

Savage is getting lowballed pretty badly recently. First ANH Vader, then Hope Malgus.. inb4 Beldorion vs Savage.

Originally posted by ILS
Savage is getting lowballed pretty badly recently. First ANH Vader, then Hope Malgus.. inb4 Beldorion vs Savage.

Nah, Hope Malgus is still pretty good. ANH Vader > Savage didn't even make sense so I'm glad Savage is being placed more accurately.

Originally posted by Sinious
Nah, Hope Malgus is still pretty good. Sure.

But he isn't throwing Asajj Ventress around by the legs or beating Plo Koon while being shot at by a squad of clones. Not seeing how his lightning is more potent than dozens of blaster bolts either.

Originally posted by Sinious
ANH Vader > Savage didn't even make sense so I'm glad Savage is being placed more accurately.

You think Savage > ANH Vader?

Cause Satele in Hope proved her potency in combat and Malgus beat her. Since we know how vastly superior Maul is to Savage, I think placing hope Malgus above him isnt irrational. I really doubt Maul could take out the Malgus who defeated Satele that easily.

Originally posted by ares834
You think Savage > ANH Vader?

No I think ANH Vader would crush him so its a mismatch.

Originally posted by Sinious
Cause Satele in Hope proved her potency in combat and Malgus beat her. Since we know how vastly superior Maul is to Savage, I think placing hope Malgus isnt irrational. I really doubt Maul could take out the Malgus who defeated Satele could defeat that easily. 1. And Ventress and Plo didn't? o.O

2. Not seeing how Maul's feats are relevant to Malgus. I'm comparing Malgus and Savage. Isn't that kind of what you're meant to do?

3. I don't really care, bro. ABC logic isn't worth anyone's time in a debate. Savage's feats are better.

Originally posted by ILS
1. And Ventress and Plo didn't? o.O

2. Not seeing how Maul's feats are relevant to Malgus. I'm comparing Malgus and Savage. Isn't that kind of what you're meant to do?

3. I don't really care, bro. ABC logic isn't worth anyone's time in a debate. Savage's feats are better.

Dude, Savage never really displayed any impressive skill in dueling. He usually overpowers his enemies with superior strength and that won't work against Malgus. Since Malgus has the lightning advantage and is more skilled, I don't see how Savage would defeat him.

Originally posted by Sinious
Dude, Savage never really displayed any impressive skill in dueling. He usually overpowers his enemies with superior strength and that won't work against Malgus. Since Malgus has the lightning advantage and is more skilled, I don't see how Savage would defeat him. 1. Of course he did. You don't defeat Ventress or Plo Koon, or drive back Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously on strength alone. That's utterly ridiculous. It contributes a lot, sure, but it's not all he has.

2. Overpower, no. Defeat? Sure. Savage has gone up against and beaten better competition than Satele and has better strength feats than Hope Malgus.

3. His lightning would just piss Savage off, and there's no guarantee he'd land too significantly with it anyway considering Savage is the better fighter at this stage in time.

I'm not saying Savage has no skill. But his main source of power in melee is strength and even in Return trailer, Malgus demonstrates awesome tanking. Every incarnation of him is a beast. Savage won't really have any strength advantage.

Idk, Dooku handled him pretty easily. It was as if Savage had no idea how to defend against lightning.

Originally posted by Sinious
I'm not saying Savage has no skill. lol

"Dude, Savage never really displayed any impressive skill in dueling."
Originally posted by Sinious
But his main source of power in melee is strength and even in Return trailer, Malgus demonstrates awesome tanking. Every incarnation of him is a beast. Savage won't really have any strength advantage.

Idk, Dooku handled him pretty easily. It was as if Savage had no idea how to defend against lightning. 1. Same could be said of Malgus by Hope. Look at how he fights.

2. Okay? Doesn't help against a lightsaber.

3. Not seeing how this contradicts my argument.

4. Yeah, he will. Snapping metal binders by flexing, crushing bones in his grasp, throwing Anakin and Obi-Wan around like wet tissue paper, and cracking stone with his strikes before even being transformed, is overall above Hope Malgus' pay grade. His better strength feats come 14 years later.

5. I seriously hope you aren't comparing Dooku to Hope Malgus in terms of Force mastery and potency?

6. Well, in the cut content from The Lawless he holds his saber up to defend against Sidious', indicating he learned from last time. Either way I maintain that Malgus' lightning isn't potent enough to kill Savage in the time it'll take Savage to get pissed off by it, and well, we know how Savage gets when he's upset.

I will not/cannot reply to that right now. Too high tbh.

Originally posted by Sinious
I will not/cannot reply to that right now. Too high tbh. http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/62087027.jpg

Tomorrow. And my first post wasn't even stating Malgus>Savage. He is still a better matchup for him than ANH Vader though.

Well you do seem to be supporting Malgus for the win. I wouldn't call anyone's viewpoint irrational, but pardon me if I'm getting the impression that there's a bit of TOR circle jerking taking place at the expense of a character who's already heavily underrated

Meh, I don't really wank Malgus.

Originally posted by Sinious
I will not/cannot reply to that right now. Too high tbh. http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/tumblr_m3cw1vk3nu1r1e1sw.gif
http://media3.giphy.com/media/62PP2yEIAZF6g/giphy.gif

Malgus curb stomps

Originally posted by ILS
3. His lightning would just piss Savage off, and there's no guarantee he'd land too significantly with it anyway considering Savage is the better fighter at this stage in time.

Malgus' lightning chewed through a very powerful Jedi's lightsaber defense and still packed enough of a punch to burn holes in him. He's putting Opress down. And lol, Savage is a lumbering giant, he's not dodging or avoiding Malgus' lightning or engaging him "too quick" to pull it off. Also Malgus is way more skilled, come on.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus' lightning chewed through a very powerful Jedi's lightsaber defense and still packed enough of a punch to burn holes in him. He's putting Opress down. And lol, Savage is a lumbering giant, he's not dodging or avoiding Malgus' lightning or engaging him "too quick" to pull it off. Also Malgus is way more skilled, come on. Dozens of blaster bolts would replicate that effect on the same Jedi, plenty of times over.

Lumbering giant, eh?

2:37:
watch?v=-7hBZNsPnyg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4223637-skills.gif

I didn't say Savage would outright dodge his lightning or be too quick for Malgus to let it loose anyway; what I am suggesting is that given Malgus' tendency to primarily duel opponents, that once locked in that kind of combat it'd be hard for him to come back out of it and pour enough lightning onto Savage to end the fight entirely. Savage would fight through whatever burst he manages and possibly even benefit from it, as dark siders do with pain, and as Savage has done before.

Malgus isn't way more skilled. A comparison of feats contradict this. I'm sorry if you and so many others think it's the case by principle that Savage has the skill of a padawan with a lightsaber but, unfortunately for you guys, it isn't the case.

Originally posted by ILS
I wouldn't call anyone's viewpoint irrational, but pardon me if I'm getting the impression that there's a bit of TOR circle jerking taking place at the expense of a character who's already heavily underrated


It's not only you who does this, actually it's the entire forum really but do you guys not see how funny it is to call out people for sucking dick, when there's one two in your mouth too? Sure, call people out for Malgus wank but it's a little weird when you're fitting the brother's dicks in your mouth. I ain't judging, you can suck all you want, but you can't call someone out on that too.

Regardless while your assessment with Malgus may end up being right, your disbelief with Savage's skill is a delight. You only mention his offense output by saying "You don't defeat Ventress or Plo Koon, or drive back Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously on strength alone" yet ignore his defensive deficiencies with his getting easily tagged by Dooku's lightning, or getting his arm chopped off by Obi-Wan with Maul's help.

Originally posted by Based
It's not only you who does this, actually it's the entire forum really but do you guys not see how funny it is to call out people for sucking dick, when there's one two in your mouth too? Sure, call people out for Malgus wank but it's a little weird when you're fitting the brother's dicks in your mouth. I ain't judging, you can suck all you want, but you can't call someone out on that too. Would someone who has two Nightbrother dicks in his mouth assert that Deceived Malgus can defeat Darth Maul - Maul being the dick suckers favourite character? No? Then I guess you don't really have a case for me being a SWTORetard tier debater.
I like how you're now the primary source for not only what dicks I'm sucking, but what I'm leaving out of my analysis. You got precog, brah?

1. As I said, it appears that Savage learnt from his first time being attacked by lightning in a combat situation ala cut content. That aside? I have no issue with declaring that Savage's defence to Force powers is a weak area. I've only been discussing his skill in lightsaber to lightsaber combat.

Personally, I think it's pretty unreasonable to suggest that Savage has "very little skill" or what have you. He's displayed disarming techniques, has mastered the saberstaff with barely any training time - which requires an especially masterful fighter to do so (Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter), otherwise one ends up cutting themselves in half (Jedi vs Sith: Essential Guide to the Force), and has gone toe to toe with some of the best fighters of his era (Ventress, Plo Koon, Obi-Wan and Anakin).

Was strength his biggest asset? Sure. But it's also not an asset that, say, Anakin, who can crush duranium in his grasp or, Grievous, who can dent a starfighter with his strikes and throw Obi-Wan around with "effortless strength", are lacking - and yet, they manage to exchange blows with the same people Savage does without their strength bowling over the competition completely. So again, while strength factors in, it's not the type of attribute that can drastically alter the outcome of a close fight without a degree of lightsaber mastery backing it.

2. Take it for what you will, but in Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy, it's detailed that Obi-Wan's success was in large part due to him both startling the brothers with his exceedingly aggressive fighting style, and because the cramped environment was causing the brothers to walk into each other. It was stated that Kenobi would have died, without a doubt, without those edges. This should be self-evident from the show too but it's good to have it in print.

Further to the point - outside of Florrum, Savage has had some very decent showings against Obi-Wan. There's his brief skirmish with him and Anakin when he's capturing the Toydorian king guy, where his defence was sufficient enough to survive that encounter. There was the time he semi caught Kenobi off-guard and managed to cause him some trouble with his strength. And there was the time with Anakin and Obi-Wan simultaneously.

People manage to hold Dooku and Florrum against Savage in every single thread, as if a character isn't allowed to lose some of the time without being defined almost entirely by those losses for the rest of time, despite his many successes. It's just pitiful debating.

I hope that answers your queries.

ILS is morally inferior tbh

yo where can i get some tbh?

Not from that loser Ahsoka. http://r30.imgfast.net/users/3013/11/32/39/smiles/2599676501.gif

Unless....

Originally posted by ILS
Not from that loser Ahsoka. http://r30.imgfast.net/users/3013/11/32/39/smiles/2599676501.gif

Unless.... http://mtv.mtvnimages.com/uri/mgid:file:http:shared:mtv.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/anigif_enhanced-buzz-29444-1358874757-2-1424902475.gif

Savage has combat skill given he not only came from a Warrior Clan, but was chosen by Ventress as the best amongst them.

What he lacks is skill and training in the Force. But then Grievous doesn't even have the Force and he manages to be a big threat against Jedi. Whilst Opress can use it well enough to deflect multiple blaster fire, and Force pushes.

Training or not, fact is Opress has proven he can defeat most Jedi Council Members.

That being said, so can Malgus, even as of Hope.

@ ILS,

Dooku's obviously superior to Hope Malgus in usage of the Force but Dooku wasn't even trying there. He was dueling Ventress and sending half ass lighting strikes at Savage at the same time. Hope Malgus going all out with his lightning against him should at least do some critical damage to Savage which would give Malgus more advantage in melee. Malgus is a superior tank and yes he is more skilled lol. Savage would have to be smart about how he approaches Malgus and also abuse the force with TK. In this scenario, I can see him defeating Malgus I guess. Not for a majority though.

Originally posted by Sinious
@ ILS,

Dooku's obviously superior to Hope Malgus in usage of the Force but Dooku wasn't even trying there. He was dueling Ventress and sending half ass lighting strikes at Savage at the same time. Hope Malgus going all out with his lightning against him should at least do some critical damage to Savage which would give Malgus more advantage in melee. Malgus is a superior tank and yes he is more skilled lol. Savage would have to be smart about how he approaches Malgus and also abuse the force with TK. In this scenario, I can see him defeating Malgus I guess. Not for a majority though. 1. Which is why using him as a comparison isn't the best idea.

2. According to what? He was fighting for his life. And for the record, Dooku's same "half assed" lightning strikes with one hand staggered the saber defence of Kenobi and Tiplee at the same time, and has also caused Darth frikkin' Maul of all people to scream in pain.

3. I still don't see any evidence on your part for Malgus' lightning being enough to overwhelm Savage's durability. Dooku's lightning is a poor comparison here because his is stronger than Malgus', quite plainly. It's also in question as to whether or not Malgus would have much of an opportunity to use lightning while he's fighting the superior combatant in close proximity. And cut content.

4. Ah, more baseless declarations. Savage has three dicks!

5. It's not a necessity at all, he just needs to be a better fighter than Malgus, which he is. He's pretty smart either way.

6. It'll have to do.

1) Which is why I explained why I compared them.

2) Dooku wasn't dueling Ventress simultaneously in those instances so they're irrelevant.

3) Savage displayed weakness in this area. He is a lot more capable in TK for example. But even his master lacks knowledge on lightning so I don't expect him to do well against it lol.

4) Unless Savage took his pants off and swung his diglett at some point, this is a wrong comparison.

5) Nah.

6) Not necessarily.

Originally posted by ILS
Would someone who has two Nightbrother dicks in his mouth assert that Deceived Malgus can defeat Darth Maul - Maul being the dick suckers favourite character? No? Then I guess you don't really have a case for me being a SWTORetard tier debater.

I'm just saying we all have biases. I wouldn't call you out as Legend level or anything.



Sure, I'll concede on calling him unskilled can be unfair given its connotation. However in this forum where for the most part, the best of the mythos are used in which Savage's skill doesn't compare.



I'll also concede that he has "a degree of lightsaber mastery" in regards to offensive technique and prowess. His defense is another story. Savage is always on the offense, especially against Jedi, to the point where they are more worried above surviving than attacking. His offensive relentlessness is his defense. With Savage swinging away with a distinct power advantage in most cases, his opponents tend to try and kick him to catch him off guard. It didn't matter as Adi Galia tried to do here. Savage's physical stats are too much for that to be effective. Also of note, Adi didn't throw one offensive attack besides that kick showing that Savage doesn't show defensive technique or rather doesn't need to for most opponents. His defense is going all out on offense. Though later in that video, Obi-Wan was able to land a successful kick.

Which is why I'm glad you mentioned..



The key to fighting Savage is to not let him have his way on offense, but rather also showing aggression to attack his weak defense. As you wrote, Obi-Wan's rare aggressiveness was able to chop up his arm. Therefore going against Sith, Savage will always have a bad time since Sith are always aggressive.

Dooku just spammed lightning though all Savage had to do was sue his lightsaber to block it. He couldn't on multiple occasions.

Ventress without a lightsaber was able to land in some blows, again ineffective not because of technique but because of superior physicality.

When one is aggressive and does't have a physical barrier to overcome, Savage gets taken out easily.

If all other factors equal, speed, strength, durability, stamina, etc, Savage would get the dick kicked out of him because of his lack of defensive capabilities. If Adi or Ventress weren't so physically weak, Savage would have had immeasurably harder fights.


It was like a 3 second encounter in which Obi-Wan could not have been aggressive unless he wanted to risk cutting up the king on Savage's back.


Which time?


You mean the time he raged charged them after Dooku and Ventress? Again a showing of his offensive output but looking back on this there's not many times Savage actually showed a defense. He lasted like 3 seconds against Sidious alone.

1)k

2) You're going to need to point out exactly which segments you're referencing, and also why they matter to Malgus.

3) Weakness to being hit by it, yeah. Provided it hits hard enough.

4) I'm sure Rule 34 has the answers we're seeking.

5) Riveting.

6)

Most of this sounds fair, Based. Shall reply to what we disagree on.



You are correct that a big bonus for Savage is his overwhelming offence, and his defence isn't the greatest out there. It is, however, serviceable. Which is what allowed him to take on Plo Koon and a crowd of Clonetroopers at the same time and come out with nothing but a win and an artificial knick on his leg.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3766040-maul+and+savage+vs+jedi2.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3766041-maul+and+savage+vs+jedi3.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3766042-maul+and+savage+vs+jedi4.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3766043-maul+and+savage+vs+jedi6.jpg

Considering Plo Koon's mastery of Djem So I'd say that if Savage can take this guy on while having to deflect blaster fire and sustain such little damage as a result, that he has a very fair shot at Malgus across the board.

Also, I find it lacking that most of this discussion has been about what Savage can't do or what people that aren't Malgus have managed to do to him opposed to, say, what Malgus himself is capable of. Not targeted just at you, but the thread in it's majority.
Eh, no. That's not what I said or what happened. Kenobi's offence startled both Maul and Savage and not because of a particular weakness on either of their parts - it was because they were just not expecting Kenobi of all people to start going crazy like that. And the environment was hindering them, preventing Savage from moving around. Not the same as what Malgus could replicate.
This isn't really based on anything.
Yeah - his first time fighting against it after a few months of training maximum. And again, cut content revealed that Savage learned how to deflect lightning in the end. If you don't buy that (I think you should personally, and it only makes sense in all reality anyway that he'd learn from it) then I stand by the durability argument, at least for some majority.
Is this the game where we see who can post the most feats from irrelevant characters and apply them to the one we're supporting? If so I guess it's my turn. Satele kicked Malgus in the face and held off his strength with one arm while breaking a tree. Considering Savage kicks Plo Koon in the face for lulz and is a physical monster, the notion that Malgus' strength would bother him is sheer lunacy.

Sounds pretty silly, doesn't it?

Savage has some issue with especially agile and acrobatic characters, such as Ventress, but his durability usually wins out. This doesn't correlate to Malgus whose acrobatics operate in a similar fashion to Savage's - the odd defensive leap or flip in between sequences but remaining flat footed for the most part.

Maul? Are we suggesting that Maul with his hella powerful enchanted legs and ridiculous martial arts skill is meant to be comparable to Hope Malgus?
That's essentially like saying "yeah, well Batman would **** Supes' day up if they took powers out of the equation!"
I still don't see how this applies to Malgus. Good for them and good for Savage if they can give each other good fights. The comparisons you are drawing are frankly all over the place atm.
He was aggressive enough to cut for Savage's legs and pursue him across platforms - didn't work. Not saying it was a particularly long fight though, but actually having space demonstrably helps.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4223639-vs+kenobi.gif
It was hardly just a rage charge, visually speaking. He displayed some fancy twirls and shit.
https://youtu.be/WmBL_RF1DNk?t=53s
And a good amount of that fight was happening off-screen. Just visually speaking he isn't lacking finesse here at all; he's putting his full body behind every swing with perfectly distributed weight and momentum, he isn't off-balance, and he's parrying any strikes that come back his way. Credit where credit's due? I do bear in mind the hallway aiding Savage obviously but it's nonetheless a good showing.

And please, please, please, please, please, please do not make a serious argument for why Sidious embarrassing Savage has any bearing whatsoever on how Malgus would perform. Sidious would absolutely eradicate this iteration of Malgus.

Malgus comfortably.

B/W Malgus (Hope) telekinetic showings include:

1. Preventing several tons of debris from crushing him beneath and then blowing it apart - this while being badly wounded.

Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breathing more difficult. He coughed as the words of his father echoed in his mind.

He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He'd surrendered his reason to bloodlust. But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash into the adjacent buildings. A Force-augmented leap carried him out and over the heap. The Jedi's eyes widened as Malgus hit the street. Malgus sneered and charged.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Third Lesson

2. Telekinetically gripping Satele Shan and knocking her into a tree, cornering her.

And do I need to explain how powerful Satele Shan was at this time?

Heh heh, this Savage wank pleases me.Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus' lightning chewed through a very powerful Jedi's lightsaber defense and still packed enough of a punch to burn holes in him. He's putting Opress down. And lol, Savage is a lumbering giant, he's not dodging or avoiding Malgus' lightning or engaging him "too quick" to pull it off. Also Malgus is way more skilled, come on.Said Jedi actually managed to withstand his lightining for a time:And tbh, Malgus was amped on pain and rage at this point.

He struggled even to put Jace down, and the guy didn't die.

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KrezzZ.gif

Savage is considerably more durable than any of these two, I agree with ILS, it will merely fuel is rage.

Like this, for example:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/y5w4E7.gif

And to add more ammunition to this lumbering giant nonsense:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KrezGd.gifYou need to account for Kenobi superb skill as a lightsaber duellist, skill Malgus does not possess. This is a demonstration of his sheer mastery of Ataru, not Savage's defensive weaknesses, given that Maul - an exceptional duellist himself - was just as stunned by Kenobi's tactics.
Ventress' lack of a lightsaber combined with her small physicque and the tight space made it easy for her to slip beneath Savage's offenses and land some hits. Malgus wouldn't be able to replicate that unless he has mini shotos attached to his fists.

EDIT: ILS has raised good points about his defense capabilities against Maul however. And on top of that Maul has defended himself against Darth Sidious himself, which according to Filoni puts him above the B-Team. On top of that the saberstaff by way of surface area would naturally bolster his defensive capabilities.

I'm getting food atm, but I'm just going to say for now that my post isn't in favor of Malgus. Just highlighting Savage's defensive capabilities. Malgus definitely has similar faults.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus comfortably.

B/W Malgus (Hope) telekinetic showings include:

1. Preventing several tons of debris from crushing him beneath and the dispersing it - this while being badly wounded.

2. Telekinetically gripping Satele Shan and knocking her into a tree.

And do I need to explain how powerful Satele Shan was at this time? 1. Savage after having his arm severed and his leg broken by Kenobi, was still able to flee while supporting the weight of his brother.

And in regards to TK:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/yEr04P.gif

Combined, and I'm sure that Savage could replicate that feat.

2. He did not telekinetically grip her, he merely used a Force push.

On the other hand Savage in a fit of rage has Force choked Ventress & Count Dooku.

So how exactly does Malgus win this comfortably?

Malgus's additional showings include:

3. Tanking a missile.

4. Choking a Jedi to death.

Sidestepping a stab from the Jedi, Malgus rode his motion into a Force-augmented spinning side kick that hit the Jedi in the ribs and sent him cartwheeling into the wall of nearby building. At the same time, he reached out with the Force for the hidden light-side user, brushed aside the resistance he felt, and pulled the Jedi out of hiding.

A human male in his twenties rose up out of ruins, dangling like a fish on the hook of Malgus's power. His legs kicked futilely; the green blade of his lightsaber cut at empty air; he gagged as Malgus's power squeezed shut his throat.

"Vorin!" shouted the Zabrak.

"So much for your ambush," Malgus said, and closed his fist, crushing Vorin's windpipe. He let the body fall to the charred earth.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Third Lesson

5. Overwhelming Lightsaber-augmented defenses of a very powerful Jedi with Force Lightning Storm, wrecking him.

At 10 meters, Malgus extended his free hand and loosed veins of blue Force lightning. They struck the charging Jedi: swept through his defenses, swirled around him, and began to burn flesh.

Shouting with pain, the Jedi leaned forward into the lightning - teeth bare, blue blades held before him - and staggered toward Malgus. Despite his burns, he came onward. One step, another, another, but he was failing, wilting in the heat of the lightning. Malgus channeled more power and the Jedi fell to his knees, screaming. The lightning spiraled around the Zabrak, blasting dark holes in his body. The lightsabers fell from his hands and he writhed in agony, screaming his pain into the sky.

Malgus ended his attack. The Jedi, ruined, fell to the ground and rolled over onto his back. His breathing sounded worse than Malgus's.

Malgus strode to his side and stood over him.

He found that he admired the Jedi's mettle.

He deactivated his lightsaber.

The Jedi, his face twisted with pain, stared up at Malgus. One of the horns on his head had cracked from the heat of the Force lightning. The Jedi's eyes went to the deactivated lightsaber in Malgus's fist and he cocked his head.

Malgus read the question in his eyes. Mercy from a Sith? Malgus smiled. He stepped forward, activated his blade, and stabbed the Jedi through the chest.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Third Lesson

1)

2) Originally posted by ILS

And for the record, Dooku's same "half assed" lightning strikes with one hand staggered the saber defence of Kenobi and Tiplee at the same time, and has also caused Darth frikkin' Maul of all people to scream in pain.



3) Dooku's lightning isn't that amazeballs. And him being able to handle Savage without any effort tells me that a lesser Sith lightning casted out with concentration can at least harm the Zabrak.

4/5/6) LOL

3. The missile made a pretty big mess of his face.

4. Savage Force choked Dooku & Ventress before his prime.

5. While fueled by pain, yet despite that he is still able to resist for a time. This same lightning having been resisted by Jace Malcolm.

Savage is perfectly capable of withstanding these attacks, and has learned how to deflect it.Originally posted by Sinious
Dooku's lightning isn't that amazeballs. And him being able to handle Savage without any effort tells me that a lesser Sith lightning casted out with concentration can at least harm the Zabrak. It's significantly superior to Hope Malgus. Dooku could all but instantly kill scores of non-Force sensitives at once, whereas Malgus struggles to incapacitate one. So I think any damage it does will be made up for in the rage it generates.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
1. Savage after having his arm severed and his leg broken by Kenobi, was still able to flee while supporting the weight of his brother.

And in regards to TK:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/yEr04P.gif

Combined, and I'm sure that Savage could replicate that feat.
This is Force Wave. No lifting involved.

Apples and oranges comparison.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
2. He did not telekinetically grip her, he merely used a Force push.
You are correct. I rechecked.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
On the other hand Savage in a fit of rage has Force choked Ventress & Count Dooku.

So how exactly does Malgus win this comfortably?
That was a momentary gain.

Malgus does wins this comfortably because he defeated Satele Shan and another very powerful Jedi.

Originally posted by Sinious
3) Dooku's lightning isn't that amazeballs. And him being able to handle Savage without any effort tells me that a lesser Sith lightning casted out with concentration can at least harm the Zabrak. It's balls are amazing enough for it to be exempt of a comparison to Malgus' lightning. And honestly I don't think the number of hands you use contributes much in terms of potency; seems a little bit artificial when what really matters is how much of yourself you put into it. With that said, Dooku killing multiple Kiffar and multiple Nightbrothers (who all have above-human durability) with his lightning is enough to suggest that it's substantially beyond Hope Malgus', which has killed one Jedi with difficulty.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
3. The missile made a pretty big mess of his face.
Doesn't matters. Can Savage tank a missile? No.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
4. Savage Force choked Dooku & Ventress before his prime.
Covered.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
5. While fueled by pain, yet despite that he is still able to resist for a time. This same lightning having been resisted by Jace Malcolm.
Malgus unleashed a normal burst of Lightning on Malcom. Also, Malcom survived because of his excellent gear which can withstand lot of firepower.

The storm of Force Lightning that Malgus unleashed on that Jedi was much more potent since even Lightsabers failed to contain it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Savage is perfectly capable of withstanding these attacks, and has learned how to deflect it.

It's significantly superior to Hope Malgus. Dooku could all but instantly kill scores of non-Force sensitives, whereas Malgus struggles to incapacitate one.
No. Savage Opress cannot withstand Malgus's powers.

What is significantly superior to Hope Malgus? And Malcom is no ordinary individual.

Originally posted by ILS
It's balls are amazing enough for it to be exempt of a comparison to Malgus' lightning. And honestly I don't think the number of hands you use contributes much in terms of potency; seems a little bit artificial when what really matters is how much of yourself you put into it. With that said, Dooku killing multiple Kiffar and multiple Nightbrothers (who all have above-human durability) with his lightning is enough to suggest that it's substantially beyond Hope Malgus', which has killed one Jedi with difficulty. He also obliterated Rex & co. if you count visions.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus does wins this comfortably because he defeated Satele Shan and another very powerful Jedi.

Originally posted by Beniboybling

Satele Shan > Savage. Same is correct for the other Jedi.

Go through Satele Shan respect thread: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/satele-shan-respect-thread/103104/

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Satele Shan > Savage. Same is correct for the other Jedi.

Obi Wan and Kiplee struggled to contain a one handed lightning attack from Dooku. Dooku's also laid waist to a group of zabraks, and can instantly KO powerful force users such as Bulq with a single short blasts. He's also KO'd Anakin after a few seconds worth of lightning. Ventress was also floored despite catching a lightning assault from Dooku with her saber, nearly being overwhelmed by the attack right before Dooku relented to make his exit.

Malgus's lightning isn't doing shit to Savage other than get him pissed, which will result in Malgus perhaps being throttled to death.

Basically everything ILS and Beniboy said.

Originally posted by ILS
It's balls are amazing enough for it to be exempt of a comparison to Malgus' lightning. And honestly I don't think the number of hands you use contributes much in terms of potency; seems a little bit artificial when what really matters is how much of yourself you put into it. With that said, Dooku killing multiple Kiffar and multiple Nightbrothers (who all have above-human durability) with his lightning is enough to suggest that it's substantially beyond Hope Malgus', which has killed one Jedi with difficulty.


I've always thought it did, considering more power can be poured out. Regardless, Dooku has KO'd powerful force users with one handed attacks (Anakin; Bulq), and nearly overwhelmed the saber defenses of Kenobi and Kiplee at once. Not to mention how he took out a group of clone troopers with a one handed assault in Yoda's battle with Sidious in the spirit plane. True, it wasn't the actual Dooku, but that sequence of the ritual was meant to be real from Yoda's POV, so I don't presume anything was meant to be exaggerated.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Obi Wan and Kiplee struggled to contain a one handed lightning attack from Dooku. Dooku's also laid waist to a group of zabraks, and can instantly KO powerful force users such as Bulq with a single short blasts. He's also KO'd Anakin after a few seconds worth of lightning. Ventress was also floored despite catching a lightning assault from Dooku with her saber, nearly being overwhelmed by the attack right before Dooku relented to make his exit.

Malgus's lightning isn't doing shit to Savage other than get him pissed, which will result in Malgus perhaps being throttled to death.

Basically everything ILS and Beniboy said.

You are aware that its burned holes through Jedi right? If it connects with Savage he's done?

But I agree this version of Malgus loses

You can't be serious...

Originally posted by carthage


But I agree this version of Malgus loses

The only thing that keeps me from siding with Savage is Malgus beating Satele tbh.

Originally posted by carthage
You are aware that its burned holes through Jedi right? If it connects with Savage he's done?

But I agree this version of Malgus loses


Yeah, but that wasn't this Malgus. Regardless, blaster bolts burn holes through jedi too, yet Savage tanks multiple. Though that might be because of armor, IDK (I don't recall seeing the source for it). Either way Dooku's opponents were more powerful and he wasn't aiming to kill them.

Sinious, Savage has beaten people who are on similar in power to Satele.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Regardless, blaster bolts burn holes through jedi too, yet Savage tanks multiple.
IIRC, Scourge before becoming the Wrath also tanks blaster bolts.



IDK, Satele's blitzing and one-shoting several sith like that was pretty impressive. Not to mention her insane tutaminis.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, but that wasn't this Malgus. Regardless, blaster bolts burn holes through jedi too, yet Savage tanks multiple. Though that might be because of armor, IDK (I don't recall seeing the source for it). Either way Dooku's opponents were more powerful and he wasn't aiming to kill them.

Sinious, Savage has beaten people who are on similar in power to Satele.

Bypassing the force defenses of a Jedi that can collapse buildings onto him with lightning is quite different than just being shot. But ok. He's also killed three Jedi on contact with his lightning as well

Originally posted by carthage
Bypassing the force defenses of a Jedi that can collapse buildings onto him with lightning is quite different than just being shot. But ok. He's also killed three Jedi on contact with his lightning as well That was Decieved Malgus I believe, Hope Malgus required significant exertion to kill with his lightning.

The last one is Decieved. The first thing carthage mentioned it Hope though.

He required a momentary bit of exertion to suspend the tons of rubble and blast it back, he didn't require any effort to kill the Zabrak with lightning.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Heh heh, this Savage wank pleases me.Said Jedi actually managed to withstand his lightining for a time:And tbh, Malgus was amped on pain and rage at this point.

He struggled even to put Jace down, and the guy didn't die.

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KrezzZ.gif

I'm just going to keep saying this until the entire internet remembers: Malcolms armor was insulated. Malgus didn't become 8x as powerful by getting pissed off. He's a Sith, I'm pretty sure he's amped on rage nigh constantly.

Originally posted by ILS
It's balls are amazing enough for it to be exempt of a comparison to Malgus' lightning. And honestly I don't think the number of hands you use contributes much in terms of potency; seems a little bit artificial when what really matters is how much of yourself you put into it. With that said, Dooku killing multiple Kiffar and multiple Nightbrothers (who all have above-human durability) with his lightning is enough to suggest that it's substantially beyond Hope Malgus', which has killed one Jedi with difficulty.

One Jedi has significantly better defense than Kiffar and Nightbrothers. As in, any defense at all. Malgus' lightning was able to burn through his torso even through his lightsaber defense, which is on a level Dooku never reached.

Where did it ever state Jace's armor was insulated though, out of curiosity? I've heard that claim for a while now.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Heh heh, this Savage wank pleases me.Said Jedi actually managed to withstand his lightining for a time:And tbh, Malgus was amped on pain and rage at this point.

He struggled even to put Jace down, and the guy didn't die.

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KrezzZ.gif


I'm still finding this ridiculously stupid, it shouldn't matter if Jace's armor helped his head wasn't armored so his brain should have been fried, especially if Malgus' Lighting can tear through Jedi and their defenses.

So I guess TOR armor > TOR Jedi....right..

Swtor Encyclopedia. There are sections for the gear of the various classes. The section for a trooper has an example of Havoc Squad armor that's just Malcolm's armor from the trailer. It has an insulated bodyglove designed to withstand extreme temperatures and electricity.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I'm still finding this ridiculously stupid, it shouldn't matter if Jace's armor helped his head wasn't armored so his brain should have been fried, especially if Malgus' Lighting can tear through Jedi and their defenses.

So I guess TOR armor > TOR Jedi....right..

Watch the gif. Malcolm never gets hit in the head by the lightning.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Swtor Encyclopedia. There are sections for the gear of the various classes. The section for a trooper has an example of Havoc Squad armor that's just Malcolm's armor from the trailer. It has an insulated bodyglove designed to withstand extreme temperatures and electricity.



Watch the gif. Malcolm never gets hit in the head by the lightning.

Obviously, but still it was a stupid thing as to why the Lighting wasn't hitting his head and honestly even that Jace should have had his entire body wrecked and unable to move after all that. He held a knife, ya know metal in his hand which should have conducted very nicely with his hand and sent the Lighting charge even further.

If I accept this, then I gotta say Malgus had some weak ass Lighting at that time....but I can't because how can this same Lighting later tear through Jedi who are wearing armor at this time right, but it can't take out Jace?..

He held the grip of a knife which was likely plastic, in his gauntleted hand. If he's insulated with a full bodyglove thats able to withstand extreme heat then lightning isn't doing much to him, so nah he wouldn't be wrecked.

Havoc Squad has the best armor.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He held the grip of a knife which was likely plastic, in his gauntleted hand. If he's insulated with a full bodyglove thats able to withstand extreme heat then lightning isn't doing much to him, so nah he wouldn't be wrecked.

Havoc Squad has the best armor.

So I guess a group of guys with insulated bodygloves designed against heat/electrical attacks which are rather abundent, can tank Malgus' Lighting at this point?...Ok.

Originally posted by carthage
Bypassing the force defenses of a Jedi that can collapse buildings onto him with lightning is quite different than just being shot. But ok. He's also killed three Jedi on contact with his lightning as well


Blaster bolts bypass force defenses regularly, hence so many jedi dying to them. Even Dooku didn't take a chance with them. Those jedi aren't tanking multiple blaster bolts the way Savage has. Dooku has bypassed the force defense of Ventress plus two other nightsister simultaneously while heavily drugged and blind, knocked Bulq unconscious with a single short blast, without trying to kill him, and has done the same to Anakin in just a few seconds. Despite all that, Savage has tanked multiple attacks from Dooku, until he got pissed and nearly choked out both Dooku and Ventress at the same time.

Sinious, blitzing fodder sith troops isn't anymore impressive than blitzing magnaguards which possess insane reaction speed. Ventress has defeated a jedi who has done the latter, yet she was beaten by Savage. Plo Koon, who fought equally with Ventress, despite an injured arm, was also beaten by Savage. Obi Wan, too, has been bested by Savage.

Savage and Malgus are similar fighters. Both rely more on strength to overcome speed advantages from faster opponents, except Savage has overpowered far stronger opponents. At this point, Savage has the force advantage other than lightning, an attack that will result in Malgus's quick demise if he uses it on Savage.

Well lightning is a pretty one-trick-pony. It's super hot and electric, if you can nullify those factors theres not much you can do except go REALLY crazy lightning.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Blaster bolts bypass force defenses regularly, hence so many jedi dying to them. Even Dooku didn't take a chance with them. Those jedi aren't tanking multiple blaster bolts the way Savage has. Dooku has bypassed the force defense of Ventress plus two other nightsister simultaneously while heavily drugged and blind, knocked Bulq unconscious with a single short blast, without trying to kill him, and has done the same to Anakin in just a few seconds. Despite all that, Savage has tanked multiple attacks from Dooku, until he got pissed and nearly choked out both Dooku and Ventress at the same time.

Malgus pwned him through his lightsaber defense not just a force barrier.

I guess, sure. Alright fine, I accept that Jace tanked the Lighting even though imo his head should have been fried...although seeing Beni post the quote how a Jedi was resisting it and moving, I guess it's not as stupid now, clearly Malgus' Lighting wasn't all that great yet. Even still, that's gotta be some weak ass Lighting if it can't even stop a regular human from moving.

Even a probe droid has more electrical output than that.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Obviously, but still it was a stupid thing as to why the Lighting wasn't hitting his head and honestly even that Jace should have had his entire body wrecked and unable to move after all that. He held a knife, ya know metal in his hand which should have conducted very nicely with his hand and sent the Lighting charge even further.

If I accept this, then I gotta say Malgus had some weak ass Lighting at that time....but I can't because how can this same Lighting later tear through Jedi who are wearing armor at this time right, but it can't take out Jace?..


Around here we only accept Dooku's weak showings of lightning for vs threads, despite him never having any. Unless you consider not outright killing a power house like Ventress with it a weak showing?

It was a zabrak, they're known for their physical hardiness. I mean he was still alive and conscious after Malgus burnt holes in his chest ffs.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well lightning is a pretty one-trick-pony. It's super hot and electric, if you can nullify those factors theres not much you can do except go REALLY crazy lightning.



Malgus pwned him through his lightsaber defense not just a force barrier.


Once a saber is down, it's irrelevant. Period.

EDIT: Unless you're trying to make a case for overpowering saber defenses, which Dooku has done better.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm just going to keep saying this until the entire internet remembers: Malcolms armor was insulated. Malgus didn't become 8x as powerful by getting pissed off. He's a Sith, I'm pretty sure he's amped on rage nigh constantly.Savage' armor was crafted from Nightsister magicks... > Malcolm's armor.

One would also imagine its ability to absorb blaster bolts is because it is heat resistant.

Meh, perhaps. He still isn't in league with Savage. This assuming Savage doesn't block it with his saber.
Your not accounting for the number of targets Dooku killed, concentrate that to one target and the intensity is magnified tenfold.Originally posted by Zenwolf
I'm still finding this ridiculously stupid, it shouldn't matter if Jace's armor helped his head wasn't armored so his brain should have been fried, especially if Malgus' Lighting can tear through Jedi and their defenses.

So I guess TOR armor > TOR Jedi....right.. That was several years on, people improve.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Around here we only accept Dooku's weak showings of lightning for vs threads, despite him never having any. Unless you consider not outright killing a power house like Ventress with it a weak showing?

? I haven't mentioned Dooku.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Once a saber is down, it's irrelevant. Period.

EDIT: Unless you're trying to make a case for overpowering saber defenses, which Dooku has done better.

The saber wasn't down and he had two of them.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That was several years on, people improve.

I know.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Once a saber is down, it's irrelevant. Period.

EDIT: Unless you're trying to make a case for overpowering saber defenses, which Dooku has done better.

It smashed through his force barrier which is >> killing Kiffar warriors with no force defense to speak of and droids lol. Savage probably wouldn't have any issues blocking it though.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Sinious, blitzing fodder sith troops isn't anymore impressive than blitzing magnaguards which possess insane reaction speed. Ventress has defeated a jedi who has done the latter, yet she was beaten by Savage. Plo Koon, who fought equally with Ventress, despite an injured arm, was also beaten by Savage. Obi Wan, too, has been bested by Savage.

Savage and Malgus are similar fighters. Both rely more on strength to overcome speed advantages from faster opponents, except Savage has overpowered far stronger opponents. At this point, Savage has the force advantage other than lightning, an attack that will result in Malgus's quick demise if he uses it on Savage.

A single TCW duel doesn't say much. The entire show was extremely inaccurate. I mean, Kenobi also managed to slice off Savage's arm while also dueling Maul in a very tight space.

I'm willing to give this to Savage but the idea of Malgus' lightning being an advantage for the Zabrak is very illogical and so is comparing Malgus' lightning to blaster bolts. Like I said, Scourge as a rookie Lord has been hit by multiple bolts and his armor absorbed almost all of it.

Originally posted by carthage
It smashed through his force barrier which is >> killing Kiffar warriors with no force defense to speak of and droids lol. Savage probably wouldn't have any issues blocking it though.


Bulg, Anakin and Ventress are Kiffar and droids?

Even if Savage can't block, he'll definitely tank it until he gets pissed and chokes Malgus out.

Originally posted by Sinious
A single TCW duel doesn't say much. The entire show was extremely inaccurate. I mean, Kenobi also managed to slice off Savage's arm while also dueling Maul in a very tight space.

I'm willing to give this to Savage but the idea of Malgus' lightning being an advantage for the Zabrak is very illogical and so is comparing Malgus' lightning to blaster bolts. Like I said, Scourge as a rookie Lord has been hit by multiple bolts and his armor absorbed almost all of it. Lol at Canon being inaccurate...

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Bulg, Anakin and Ventress are Kiffar and droids?

Even if Savage can't block, he'll definitely tank it until he gets pissed and chokes Malgus out.

2/3 of those users are easily less powerful than Malgus, Kiffars can't raise a force barrier to deflect lightning, and Bulq has pretty horrible showings of barrier as well (getting tked by Windu/oneshot by Dooku),. The guy that collapsed buildings on Malgus is more powerful than either in terms of telekinesis I'm afraid

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol at Canon being inaccurate...

:facepalm:

I have no idea what that even means. Throughout TCW, characters' combat prowesses varied way too much. So character A beating character B once doesn't really mean much when character B has defeated char A in harder circumstances and has better feats/accolades overall.

I thought you meant holistically, but I'm not sure I see that either.

However we are not a liberty to make subjective kind of decisions like that, what happened happened.

Originally posted by Sinious
A single TCW duel doesn't say much. The entire show was extremely inaccurate. I mean, Kenobi also managed to slice off Savage's arm while also dueling Maul in a very tight space.

I'm willing to give this to Savage but the idea of Malgus' lightning being an advantage for the Zabrak is very illogical and so is comparing Malgus' lightning to blaster bolts. Like I said, Scourge as a rookie Lord has been hit by multiple bolts and his armor absorbed almost all of it.


The fact that Savage tanks multiple blaster bolts and several assaults of Dooku's lightning, isn't just coincidence. His durability shouldn't be in question, especially when it's so consistent. There was nothing inaccurate about it. Malgus using lightning would result in his quick demise more than it would do anything to Savage, if it's used consistently enough to piss off Savage.

Kenobi did so while Savage was in a very unlikely stance during a saber lock. I'm more than certain that same situation won't present itself here, otherwise stunts like that would have happened to Savage more often, considering the opponents he's faced. If we're going by inconsistent showing then Savage will no doubt run through Malgus's lightning and chop of his head with no trouble at all.

Originally posted by carthage
2/3 of those users are easily less powerful than Malgus, Kiffars can't raise a force barrier to deflect lightning, and Bulq has pretty horrible showings of barrier as well (getting tked by Windu/oneshot by Dooku),. The guy that collapsed buildings on Malgus is more powerful than either in terms of telekinesis I'm afraid


Bulq had awful barriers just like those jedi Malgus overpowered with lightning. Dooku's >> Malgus bro. Anakin and Ventress >> those poor barrier jedi.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The fact that Savage tanks multiple blaster bolts and several assaults of Dooku's lightning, isn't just coincidence. His durability shouldn't be in question, especially when it's so consistent. There was nothing inaccurate about it. Malgus using lightning would result in his quick demise more than it would do anything to Savage, if it's used consistently enough to piss off Savage.

Kenobi did so while Savage was in a very unlikely stance during a saber lock. I'm more than certain that same situation won't present itself here, otherwise stunts like that would have happened to Savage more often, considering the opponents he's faced. If we're going by inconsistent showing then Savage will no doubt run through Malgus's lightning and chop of his head with no trouble at all.

I'm not doubting Savage's durability but him having recognizable chance at Kenobi.

Savage's TK rage is also a unique case. It's very unlikely for it to happen against a single opponent absent morals.

Malgus' lightning being inaccurate against Jace(assuming that's what you're referring to) could be explained by several logical assumptions. Maybe he didn't go all out on him cause he thought he was just taking out a mere soldier with average will and gear and when he realized the opposition was resisting, he simply took him out single-handedly where the inaccuracy I'm pointing out is more plain and harder to justify.

Can we stop with the "lightning will just piss him off" argument? Even if it doesn't put Savage down for good, it will put him down just like it did against Dooku and without Ventress constantly interrupting him, Malgus can easily dispatch Savage while he's twitching in pain on his knees.

Originally posted by Sinious
I'm not doubting Savage's durability but him having recognizable chance at Kenobi.

Savage's TK rage is also a unique case. It's very unlikely for it to happen against a single opponent absent morals.

Malgus' lightning being inaccurate against Jace(assuming that's what you're referring to) could be explained by several logical assumptions. Maybe he didn't go all out on him cause he thought he was just taking out a mere soldier with average will and gear and when he realized the opposition was resisting, he simply took him out single-handedly where the inaccuracy I'm pointing out is more plain and harder to justify.

The inaccuracy and stupidity actually comes from why the hell Jace was given this elaborate death buildup when other Troopers were just getting hacked apart.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
The inaccuracy and stupidity actually comes from why the hell Jace was given this elaborate death buildup when other Troopers were just getting hacked apart.

I honestly hate how non force users can give a jedi/sith trouble but it is there and not just in EU but even in the movies.

Being flashy and edgy is more important than making logical sense, here.

Originally posted by Sinious
I'm not doubting Savage's durability but him having recognizable chance at Kenobi.

Savage's TK rage is also a unique case. It's very unlikely for it to happen against a single opponent absent morals.

Malgus' lightning being inaccurate against Jace(assuming that's what you're referring to) could be explained by several logical assumptions. Maybe he didn't go all out on him cause he thought he was just taking out a mere soldier with average will and gear and when he realized the opposition was resisting, he simply took him out single-handedly where the inaccuracy I'm pointing out is more plain and harder to justify.


If Savage is attacked by something that would trigger such rage, then it's very likely.

Or maybe it's just an inconsistent low showing that shouldn't be brought up for the purpose of these threads, as I can't think of any reason as to why a single trooper would nearly power through an extended attack with his head being exposed. Same with Savage. I think people shouldn't harp on Kenobi chopping his arm off, considering Savage's stance during that particular saber lock, leaving his weakened knee so easily targeted. It's not a situation that is likely to present itself here nor is it something that just anyone could do to him, otherwise it would have happened more often, considering the number of Obi Wan level duelists he's faced, including Obi Wan himself.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
If Savage is attacked by something that would trigger such rage, then it's very likely.

Or maybe it's just an inconsistent low showing that shouldn't be brought up for the purpose of these threads, as I can't think of any reason as to why a single trooper would nearly power through an extended attack with his head being exposed. Same with Savage. I think people shouldn't harp on Kenobi chopping his arm off, considering Savage's stance during that particular saber lock, leaving his weakened knee so easily targeted. It's not a situation that is likely to present itself here nor is it something that just anyone could do to him, otherwise it would have happened more often, considering the number of Obi Wan level duelists he's faced, including Obi Wan himself.

Why did Savage end up in such vulnerable position then? During the entire fight, Kenobi focused on his knee. Savage never managed to defend it properly. And again, Kenobi used this weakness at the end and managed to cut off his arm. This might very well be due to Savage's lack of proper training(compared to a fully trained jedi/sith). Such amateur defending against Malgus would cause him his life.

Also, Maul single-handedly disarms Savage after 2 strikes. I doubt Maul could do that to Malgus tbh.

Sinious, what I'm trying to say is that Savage tanking blaster bolts and Dooku's lightning so consistently, conveys the writers intent perfectly: Savage is just that durable. We've seen blaster bolts burn holes right through jedi all throughout canon, and we've seen Dooku's lightning render powerful force users unconscious, without trying to kill them. With that being the case, there's no reason to assume Malgus lightning would do any more damage to Savage than what he's been shown to consistently handle. Malgus's lightning burning holes isn't going to harm Savage more than blaster bolts which have the power to do the same. It doesn't matter if it's lightning or not when the result is the same. However, if you want to get that strict, well, again Savage has shown to tank several blasts of Dooku's lightning, and while Dooku's never shown to burn holes through jedi, he has taken out more powerful jedi with it, without trying to kill them, similar to Vitiate taking out a powerful strike team, without intending to kill them. The best way to compare Malgus's lightning to Dooku's would be to judge it by their opponents, their intents, and similar situations; basically the same way you would do if it were Vitiate. Dooku's comes off as superior to Malgus's.

Regardless, we know Savage can tank powerful lightning, and attacks that cause similar damage to that of Malgus's lightning. All it does is trigger his anger, which won't go well for Malgus.

No, it incapacitates him for the easy coup de grace.

Originally posted by Sinious
Why did Savage end up in such vulnerable position then? During the entire fight, Kenobi focused on his knee. Savage never managed to defend it properly. And again, Kenobi used this weakness at the end and managed to cut off his arm. This might very well be due to Savage's lack of proper training(compared to a fully trained jedi/sith). Such amateur defending against Malgus would cause him his life.

Also, Maul single-handedly disarms Savage after 2 strikes. I doubt Maul could do that to Malgus tbh.


He was also kicked there by Adi before Kenobi, and before you question her strength, she went toe to toe with Grievous. And again, Malgus style of fighting is similar to Savage's. He hacks away at his opponents defenses, especially the faster ones; in Savage's case, Kenobi is the faster and more agile opponent, such advantage that Malgus doesn't have against Savage. Ventress couldn't do it to Savage, Plo couldn't, Kenobi (on about three other occasions) couldn't, Plo couldn't, etc, so why should I assume Malgus would? There would definitely be no reason for Savage to be in that same exact stance pressing down on Malgus from the side as he was with Obi Wan, unless Savage is overpowering Malgus with strength or if someone else is on the other side.

I'm not going to get into that, but your doubts aren't proof. You already stated that you believe Savage would win, so why bring up the fight with Maul?

Neph come on, even you can't think Hope Malgus' lightning is on a par with Dooku's. Dooku's has killed swaths of force sensitives and if we count that vision feat he also instantly demolishes a *squad of armored soldiers.

Except Rex was still alive, lol.

Even I do think that. I don't give a shit about him killing some defenseless people (not that they were confirmed dead tbh) and I don't count visions. That Dooku can kill some mooks is laughably mediocre, any random Sith Lord should be capable of that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, it incapacitates him for the easy coup de grace.


He recovered quickly from Dooku's, so I doubt he'd just stare as Malgus closes in on him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even I do think that. I don't give a shit about him killing some defenseless people (not that they were confirmed dead tbh) and I don't count visions. That Dooku can kill some mooks is laughably mediocre, any random Sith Lord should be capable of that.

And yet you've used the Wrath's vision of Vitiate's mega ritual in an argument before...

Originally posted by ares834
And yet you've used the Wrath's vision of Vitiate's mega ritual in an argument before...

That was a vision of the future directly from the Force, not an imaginary fake dreamland Sidious invented.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He recovered quickly from Dooku's, so I doubt he'd just stare as Malgus closes in on him.

Why would Malgus not just constantly zap him as he kills him? He could also do a saber throw if he really needs to save time.

It was still a vision and one that was obviously false.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Bulq had awful barriers just like those jedi Malgus overpowered with lightning. Dooku's >> Malgus bro. Anakin and Ventress >> those poor barrier jedi.

Nice evasion of the point that neither of them were as powerful as the Zabrak whose defenses Malgus tore through with lightning .

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He recovered quickly from Dooku's, so I doubt he'd just stare as Malgus closes in on him.

Because Dooku's lightning is substandard for a Sith lord?

Originally posted by ares834
It was still a vision and one that was obviously false.

How was it fake, lol? Potential future's are a thing, you know. It's not like he just ****ing randomly tripped balls for a few seconds, it was a legit vision that's not comparable to Sidious' fake mental attack.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That was a vision of the future directly from the Force, not an imaginary fake dreamland Sidious invented.



Why would Malgus not just constantly zap him as he kills him? He could also do a saber throw if he really needs to save time.


And why would Savage not just use the force on him? He's capable of using the force mid attack.

Cart, what point? You asserted Bulq's barriers were weak on account of being overpowered by Dooku and Windu both of whom are more powerful than Malgus, especially at this point, so I used that argument against you on those jedi that were overpowered by Malgus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How was it fake, lol? Potential future's are a thing, you know. It's not like he just ****ing randomly tripped balls for a few seconds, it was a legit vision that's not comparable to Sidious' fake mental attack.

How was it fake? I dunno, probably the fact that that the GFFA is still around. We don't have any clue to the validity of the vision. Heck, Sidious's mental attack was more accurate considering Anakin kills Dooku in the same method.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And why would Savage no just use the force on him? He's capable of using the force mid attack.

Uh, because he's getting lit up like a christmas tree? He did nothing but shit himself when Dooku zapped him, he didn't attack him until he had a moment to himself. I know you really want him to win or something but this is pretty clear cut, we literally have the video of how Savage would react and it took him 10 seconds to even stand up again after Dooku's first attack. Literally every time he goes down and stays down to catch his breath.

I'd argue that Sidious's spiritual battle with Yoda was more realistic than a potential future, considering it was meant to be real from Yoda's POV.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh, because he's getting lit up like a christmas tree? He did nothing but shit himself when Dooku zapped him, he didn't attack him until he had a moment to himself. I know you really want him to win or something but this is pretty clear cut, we literally have the video of how Savage would react and it took him 10 seconds to even stand up again after Dooku's first attack.


You mean how he didn't lift heavy obelisks mid attack, or the time Dooku was blasting him away and he got right back up? Either way he never just sat their waiting to be attacked, and Dooku's lightning is superior to Malgus's.

Originally posted by ares834
How was it fake? I dunno, probably the fact that that the GFFA is still around. We don't have any clue to the validity of the vision. Heck, Sidious's mental attack was more accurate considering Anakin kills Dooku in the same method.

That doesn't make it "fake", it means that that potential future was averted which was basically the obvious reason he had the vision in the first place. It's obviously a real vision, theres nothing fake about it. It's not like the Force lied, lol.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You mean how he didn't lift heavy obelisks mid attack, or the time Dooku was blasting him away and he got right back up? Either way he never just sat their waiting to be attacked, and Dooku's lightning is superior to Malgus's.

You really need to rewatch that fight bro. He did just sit there waiting to be attacked. Not once did he "get right back up."

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And why would Savage not just use the force on him? He's capable of using the force mid attack.

Cart, what point? You asserted Bulq's barriers were weak on account of being overpowered by Dooku and Windu both of whom are more powerful than Malgus, especially at this point, so I used that argument against you on those jedi that were overpowered by Malgus.

What? Windu has never been more powerful than any iteration of Malgus after Return, like at all. And no Bulq has no feats comparable to the Zabrak Jedi whom Malgus shredded with lightning, especially given has lack of showings in the force for Bulq, Kiffars which aren't even force sensitive, and droids. You brought up three not even remotely comparable showings and even called Bulq a powerful force user (when he hasn't even displayed any feats remotely comparable to Malgus or that Zabrak):


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Obi Wan and Kiplee struggled to contain a one handed lightning attack from Dooku. Dooku's also laid waist to a group of zabraks, and can instantly KO powerful force users such as Bulq with a single short blasts. He's a



lso KO'd Anakin after a few seconds worth of lightning.

Yeah, Dooku's lightning which can kill droids/ random nightbrothers >>> Malgus's which can burn holes through Jedi, char Aryn Leneer/send her flying, and kill 3 Jedi at once.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't make it "fake", it means that that potential future was averted which was basically the obvious reason he had the vision in the first place. It's obviously a real vision, theres nothing fake about it. It's not like the Force lied, lol.



You really need to rewatch that fight bro. He did just sit there waiting to be attacked. Not once did he "get right back up."


Yeah, but Dooku's lightning is more powerful, and it was used to blast Savage back. At no point did Savage sit and wait for Dooku to close in on him as Dooku was handling Ventress. The lightning was breaking him, hence his conversation with Ventress about Dooku being to powerful while he was on his knees, as opposed to shouting in pain like he was.

He's grown more powerful since then anyways, and according to the databank, the moments he choked Dooku and Ventress, was the moment he found his power, indicating that was the moment he realized how effective his anger and rage can be, thus he wouldn't need as much punishment to use it in his prime. This version of Malgus best bet is to not use lightning.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17owbiibrj1i2jpg/original.jpg

Originally posted by carthage
What? Windu has never been more powerful than any iteration of Malgus after Return, like at all. And no Bulq has no feats comparable to the Zabrak Jedi whom Malgus shredded with lightning, especially given has lack of showings in the force for Bulq, Kiffars which aren't even force sensitive, and droids. You brought up three not even remotely comparable showings and even called Bulq a powerful force user (when he hasn't even displayed any feats remotely comparable to Malgus or that Zabrak):




Yeah, Dooku's lightning which can kill droids/ random nightbrothers >>> Malgus's which can burn holes through Jedi, char Aryn Leneer/send her flying, and kill 3 Jedi at once.


No, Dooku can kill jedi in the prime of it's order and KO some of the most powerful force users in history such as Anakin.

Why are you getting so desperate that you're using maxed out rage Malgus? Regardless, Aryn was caught by rage Malgus as she was flying at him; not exactly the best position to ground yourself for a saber defense. Before that, she gave him a fight. Ventress is fodder for Dooku. Ventress > Aryn.

I knew you were secretly a Malgus fanboy Cart, but you must agree Savage chokes him out.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No, Dooku can kill jedi in the prime of it's order and KO some of the most powerful force users in history such as Anakin.

Why are you getting so desperate that you're using maxed out rage Malgus? Regardless, Aryn was caught by rage Malgus as she was flying at him; not exactly the best position to ground yourself for a saber defense. Before that, she gave him a fight. Ventress is fodder for Dooku. Ventress > Aryn.


Tiplee and Bulq are hardly examples of prime force users, lol- and koing AOTC Anakin while he's running and not doing any damage isn't more impressive than Malgus's feats. You even claimed Bulq was a powerful force user, without actually being able to show a feat Bulq performed that surpasses collapsing an entire building. So what if Malgus was "maxed out on rage", he's a Sith so he utilizes rage for his power? How is that at all relevant to the fact that he can blast through more powerful Jedi than Tiplee (who is featless in the force) and Bulq who can't even do anything more than basic force pushes?






She was prepared to leap at him, and he blasted her before she lunged not during the actual leap. And Aryn has superior force feats to Ventress (blasting away rubble from Malgus's leap/hurling a 6 car tram with a gesture) surpass any TK showings by Ventress. Ventress was only ragdolled by her when he was amped by Vjun and she was unprepared

Also Aryn had previously blocked Malgus' lightning in midair already so......

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, but Dooku's lightning is more powerful, and it was used to blast Savage back. At no point did Savage sit and wait for Dooku to close in on him as Dooku was handling Ventress. The lightning was breaking him, hence his conversation with Ventress about Dooku being to powerful while he was on his knees, as opposed to shouting in pain like he was.

He's grown more powerful since then anyways, and according to the databank, the moments he choked Dooku and Ventress, was the moment he found his power, indicating that was the moment he realized how effective his anger and rage can be, thus he wouldn't need as much punishment to use it in his prime. This version of Malgus best bet is to not use lightning.

Not even going to bother with the power argument, it doesn't really matter. It was used to take Savage out of the fight and it did for considerable lengths of time even without Dooku constantly applying it or paying him any attention. If Malgus constantly zaps him it would be easy for him to have the entire 1 second that it would take him to kill Savage while he's defenseless. The only reason Savage didn't wait for Dooku to close in on him was because Dooku never tried. He was extremely debilitated every time and needed to recover, if Dooku had tried to gut him he'd have been ****ed. He'd have the exact same reaction to Malgus.

I don't see how any of that matters to his reaction to lightning. He'd still get hurt for long enough that Malgus can kill him, it seriously wouldn't take that long. Savage would need to instantly recover while getting electrocuted to survive and that's idiotic to even consider.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Aryn had previously blocked Malgus' lightning in midair already so......


Even worse, though I don't recall.

Dooku knocked Ventress flat on her buttocks with a short burst, nearly overwhelming her right before he relented.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Even worse, though I don't recall.

Dooku knocked Ventress flat on her buttocks with a short burst, nearly overwhelming her right before he relented.

No, better for her. She was equal to Malgus more or less until his upgrade.

Lol, yeah while she was standing up and unsteady. Great job.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Even worse, though I don't recall.

Dooku knocked Ventress flat on her buttocks with a short burst, nearly overwhelming her right before he relented.

All of the examples you listed were for him only incapacitating them without causing any damage? He couldn't even char/burn holes through/ or kill multiple force sensitives ike Malgus could. Are you gonna concede or am I gonna have to spank you?

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, better for her. She was equal to Malgus more or less until his upgrade.

Lol, yeah while she was standing up and unsteady. Great job.


No, worse for him considering his power boost.

IDK about you but I would rather be on my feet to appropriately mount a defense for an attack, not fly into it, making the impact that much more stronger.

Originally posted by carthage
All of the examples you listed were for him only incapacitating them without causing any damage? He couldn't even char/burn holes through/ or kill multiple force sensitives ike Malgus could. Are you gonna concede or am I gonna have to spank you?


But they are far more powerful, and the fact that he can KO them, without intending to kill, would suggest he could do far more than char them with a serious attack.

Let's do this bare knuckle, so you'll stop challenging me. Anything goes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even I do think that. I don't give a shit about him killing some defenseless people (not that they were confirmed dead tbh) and I don't count visions. That Dooku can kill some mooks is laughably mediocre, any random Sith Lord should be capable of that.

Lol confirmed dead? Why would Dooku leave them alive?

Feats for Dooku's lightning:
KOing AOTCs Anakin with a casual blast
Casually knocking Sora Bulq, one of the greatest saber masters in history unconscious with a casual blast.
Killing Kiffar (Force Sensitives)
Killing Night Brothers (powerful force sensitives)
Pushing back two Jedi Masters with a casual one handed blast
Making Darth Maul scream in pain even when he wasn't trying to kill him


That trumps:
*barely managing to incapacitate 1 trooper
*barely manage to overwhelm some random Jedi's defenses.

Rex was still moving after Dooku blasted him and the clones, IIRC.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol confirmed dead? Why would Dooku leave them alive?

Feats for Dooku's lightning:
KOing AOTCs Anakin with a casual blast
Casually knocking Sora Bulq, one of the greatest saber masters in history unconscious with a casual blast.
Killing Kiffar (Force Sensitives)
Killing Night Brothers (powerful force sensitives)
Pushing back two Jedi Masters with a casual one handed blast
Making Darth Maul scream in pain even when he wasn't trying to kill him


That trumps:
*barely managing to incapacitate 1 trooper
*barely manage to overwhelm some random Jedi's defenses.


Ant thinks because Rex's leg was seen settling after the attack, means he was alive. He thinks he's on to something.

Neph considers vague possible futures, but not realistic depictions made to fool another force user.

The magnitude of stupidity and ignorance demonstrated in this thread have reached astounding proportions.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He also obliterated Rex & co. if you count visions.
With Force Lightning?

Even if so, their body armor would be lacking.

Here is information about body armor of Havoc Squad:

Republic-issue combat armor is produced in a wide variety of styles to suit various mission profiles. Hardened duraplast forms the main protective element of most armor, either integrated into lightweight vests or molded into overlapping plates and worn over an insulated body glove for maximum coverage. When even more protection is called for, the duraplast may be supplemented or even replaced with plating composed of durasteel, cortosis, or other exotic materials.

Standard armors are resistant to small-arms fire and shrapnel, while heavier varieties are reported to have even survived repeated strikes from lightsabers and vehicle-mounted canons. Republic army recruitment centers sometimes display exceptional chesplates that have withstood direct missile impacts, hoping to inspire confidence in potential recruits.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Also;

As the most elite soldiers in the Republic, the troopers of Havoc Squad are trained to take down any threat: including Sith.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Originally posted by ILS
It's balls are amazing enough for it to be exempt of a comparison to Malgus' lightning. And honestly I don't think the number of hands you use contributes much in terms of potency; seems a little bit artificial when what really matters is how much of yourself you put into it. With that said, Dooku killing multiple Kiffar and multiple Nightbrothers (who all have above-human durability) with his lightning is enough to suggest that it's substantially beyond Hope Malgus', which has killed one Jedi with difficulty.
And how strong were those individuals? What were their defensive capabilities?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Obi Wan and Kiplee struggled to contain a one handed lightning attack from Dooku.
Obi-Wan Kenobi comfortably contained Count Dooku's Force Lightning with his lightsaber. Recall AOTC?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Dooku's also laid waist to a group of zabraks, and can instantly KO powerful force users such as Bulq with a single short blasts.
They were not prepared and caught by surprise.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He's also KO'd Anakin after a few seconds worth of lightning. Ventress was also floored despite catching a lightning assault from Dooku with her saber, nearly being overwhelmed by the attack right before Dooku relented to make his exit.
Big deal? Force Lightning incapacitates. And none of them were mortally wounded.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Malgus's lightning isn't doing shit to Savage other than get him pissed, which will result in Malgus perhaps being throttled to death.

Basically everything ILS and Beniboy said.
Nonsense.

Read this again:

At 10 meters, Malgus extended his free hand and loosed veins of blue Force lightning. They struck the charging Jedi: swept through his defenses, swirled around him, and began to burn flesh.

Shouting with pain, the Jedi leaned forward into the lightning - teeth bare, blue blades held before him - and staggered toward Malgus. Despite his burns, he came onward. One step, another, another, but he was failing, wilting in the heat of the lightning. Malgus channeled more power and the Jedi fell to his knees, screaming. The lightning spiraled around the Zabrak, blasting dark holes in his body. The lightsabers fell from his hands and he writhed in agony, screaming his pain into the sky.

Malgus ended his attack. The Jedi, ruined, fell to the ground and rolled over onto his back.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Third Lesson

And this was no ordinary Jedi:

The Jedi held his ground. At twenty meters, the Jedi raised his lightsabers aloft to either side and drew them both down with a flourish.

Too late the rumble of the falling buildings penetrated the haze of Malgus's anger. An avalanche of duracrete and transparisteel crashed down on him from either side of the street...

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Third Lesson

Now show me an example of Count Dooku wrecking a Jedi that powerful with Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That was Decieved Malgus I believe, Hope Malgus required significant exertion to kill with his lightning.
You don't understand the difference between a very powerful Jedi and others?

Check the information cited above.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Savage' armor was crafted from Nightsister magicks... > Malcolm's armor.
Really?

Let me know when Savage Opress tanks missiles and lightsaber stabs. Havoc Squad Body Armor is capable of withstanding such firepower.

Check the information cited above.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
One would also imagine its ability to absorb blaster bolts is because it is heat resistant.
Havoc Squad body armor can tank blaster bolts as well.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Meh, perhaps. He still isn't in league with Savage. This assuming Savage doesn't block it with his saber.
Your not accounting for the number of targets Dooku killed, concentrate that to one target and the intensity is magnified tenfold. That was several years on, people improve.
Jace Malcom is among the greatest warriors of the Republic. He is like the Jango Fett of his era.

Force Lightning is a deadly power. And Darth Malgus is proficient in its use.

Check the information cited above.

Originally posted by carthage
It smashed through his force barrier which is >> killing Kiffar warriors with no force defense to speak of and droids lol. Savage probably wouldn't have any issues blocking it though.
Savage doesn't holds a candle to a Jedi who was powerful enough to collapse buildings and go toe-to-toe against Malgus in a lightsaber duel.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Neph come on, even you can't think Hope Malgus' lightning is on a par with Dooku's. Dooku's has killed swaths of force sensitives and if we count that vision feat he also instantly demolishes a *squad of armored soldiers.
Malgus is more proficient in the use of Force Lightning then Count Dooku. Malgus is renowned for utilizing emotions such as anger to fuel his power. The greater the hatred, the more potent is the crackling bolts of energy accordingly.

Big deal? Malgus is among the greatest warriors of the mythos. He can match Dooku's feats easily. In-fact, Darth Sidious acknowledged Malgus's superiority over Count Dooku and Darth Vader.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Sinious, what I'm trying to say is that Savage tanking blaster bolts and Dooku's lightning so consistently, conveys the writers intent perfectly: Savage is just that durable. We've seen blaster bolts burn holes right through jedi all throughout canon, and we've seen Dooku's lightning render powerful force users unconscious, without trying to kill them. With that being the case, there's no reason to assume Malgus lightning would do any more damage to Savage than what he's been shown to consistently handle. Malgus's lightning burning holes isn't going to harm Savage more than blaster bolts which have the power to do the same. It doesn't matter if it's lightning or not when the result is the same. However, if you want to get that strict, well, again Savage has shown to tank several blasts of Dooku's lightning, and while Dooku's never shown to burn holes through jedi, he has taken out more powerful jedi with it, without trying to kill them, similar to Vitiate taking out a powerful strike team, without intending to kill them. The best way to compare Malgus's lightning to Dooku's would be to judge it by their opponents, their intents, and similar situations; basically the same way you would do if it were Vitiate. Dooku's comes off as superior to Malgus's.

Regardless, we know Savage can tank powerful lightning, and attacks that cause similar damage to that of Malgus's lightning. All it does is trigger his anger, which won't go well for Malgus.

I understand what you mean. So my question is, do you think Lord Scourge could also tank a lightning of this caliber?

I have no doubt that Count Dooku's lightning is superior to Hope Malgus' lightning. But again, Dooku managed to put him on his knees with short bursts of lightnings that were sent while he was dueling Ventress. I don't think I'm reaching when I say Dooku wasn't even focused on Savage and took him out with a casual manner. Malgus is not near Dooku at this point but he won't have to duel with Ventress here and can just unleash all his lightning on Savage. I also agree that even this won't be enough to finish Savage but it will definitely harm him. It is an advantage for Malgus, not Savage. Perhaps a random sith lord's lightning could backfire but not someone on Malgus' level.

Btw, the way you mention Vitiate and hint I have bias for him is really uncool.


Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He was also kicked there by Adi before Kenobi, and before you question her strength, she went toe to toe with Grievous. And again, Malgus style of fighting is similar to Savage's. He hacks away at his opponents defenses, especially the faster ones; in Savage's case, Kenobi is the faster and more agile opponent, such advantage that Malgus doesn't have against Savage. Ventress couldn't do it to Savage, Plo couldn't, Kenobi (on about three other occasions) couldn't, Plo couldn't, etc, so why should I assume Malgus would? There would definitely be no reason for Savage to be in that same exact stance pressing down on Malgus from the side as he was with Obi Wan, unless Savage is overpowering Malgus with strength or if someone else is on the other side.

I'm not going to get into that, but your doubts aren't proof. You already stated that you believe Savage would win, so why bring up the fight with Maul?

Plo Koon is possibly the 5th strongest jedi of PT so I was really surprised to see him lose to Savage even with the aid of a couple of clones. It's one of the reasons I'm okay with giving this to Savage.

I think Savage is more dangerous when he is pressing forward and not defending. Malgus has the strength, skill and speed to counter Savage's attacks and if he can manage to push back, I think he could defeat him in a duel. During Hope, he was around 35 years old. This isn't a young, rookie Malgus. He was already very experienced and had years of training.

I was siding Malgus at first but after some thought, I've come to realize that Savage has a good chance at winning this as well. I'm okay with both sides winning tbh. But why not get into that? I mean, Maul literally took him out after 2 strikes. He couldnt have done that to Hope Satele, let alone Hope Malgus.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol confirmed dead? Why would Dooku leave them alive?

Feats for Dooku's lightning:
KOing AOTCs Anakin with a casual blast
Casually knocking Sora Bulq, one of the greatest saber masters in history unconscious with a casual blast.
Killing Kiffar (Force Sensitives)
Killing Night Brothers (powerful force sensitives)
Pushing back two Jedi Masters with a casual one handed blast
Making Darth Maul scream in pain even when he wasn't trying to kill him


That trumps:
*barely managing to incapacitate 1 trooper
*barely manage to overwhelm some random Jedi's defenses.

Uh, the point is about whether or not Dooku can kill people with lightning, not whether he wants to. He's not "leaving them alive" if he can only manage to zap them unconscious instead of kill them.

And lawl, none of that compares to Malgus' feats. Anakin and Bulq were never shown attempting to block the lightning so it likely just went under their guards. And neither had Force feats as good as that Zabrak's. By contrast Malgus overpowered the defenses of an incredibly powerful Jedi and his lightning was still powerful enough to burn holes in the guys body through his lightsaber defense. Dooku has never accomplished anything but make people smoke a little bit, his lightning has demonstrably less power. Malgus' lightning was more damaging even while being significantly blunted by the lightsabers.

Originally posted by Sinious
I understand what you mean. So my question is, do you think Lord Scourge could also tank a lightning of this caliber?

I have no doubt that Count Dooku's lightning is superior to Hope Malgus' lightning. But again, Dooku managed to put him on his knees with short bursts of lightnings that were sent while he was dueling Ventress. I don't think I'm reaching when I say Dooku wasn't even focused on Savage and took him out with a casual manner. Malgus is not near Dooku at this point but he won't have to duel with Ventress here and can just unleash all his lightning on Savage. I also agree that even this won't be enough to finish Savage but it will definitely harm him. It is an advantage for Malgus, not Savage. Perhaps a random sith lord's lightning could backfire but not someone on Malgus' level.

Btw, the way you mention Vitiate and hint I have bias for him is really uncool.




Plo Koon is possibly the 5th strongest jedi of PT so I was really surprised to see him lose to Savage even with the aid of a couple of clones. It's one of the reasons I'm okay with giving this to Savage.

I think Savage is more dangerous when he is pressing forward and not defending. Malgus has the strength, skill and speed to counter Savage's attacks and if he can manage to push back, I think he could defeat him in a duel. During Hope, he was around 35 years old. This isn't a young, rookie Malgus. He was already very experienced and had years of training.

I was siding Malgus at first but after some thought, I've come to realize that Savage has a good chance at winning this as well. I'm okay with both sides winning tbh. But why not get into that? I mean, Maul literally took him out after 2 strikes. He couldnt have done that to Hope Satele, let alone Hope Malgus.


I was speaking on how Vitiate's lightning is compared to other's in general. That rule doesn't just apply to him. Off a nexus, Vitiate's best lightning feat was downing a group of jedi, with only two the them managing to use their sabers appropriately before being overpowered by about 20 seconds worth of spam and then another charged attack. On paper, Malgus has him beat solidly, but instead we acknowledge Vitiate's opponents and intent. Ok, well Dooku has KO'd Anakin in a few seconds, without intending to kill him, and with a single short blast, he KO'd Bulq outright. If we consider the intent and ease, it's illogical to assume that is all he is capable of, especially in the latter case. Anakin, by far, is more powerful than those jedi. Not to mention how even Obi Wan and Kiplee were being pressed back by a one handed attack from Dooku despite having appropriate saber defenses mounted, not half assed ones.

Why are you feeling attacked? It was an example on how lightning effects can vary depending on the opponents, intent, and situation.

Savage was a warrior far before his training under Dooku and Maul. While he's not master duelist level in terms of skill, he is skilled enough to hang with masters, as been shown, with his physical strength a raw power providing him an edge in most of his duels. As Dooku said, he had a natural ability as a mere night brother, and has shown to down a jedi knight (master?) and his padawan within seconds, before his sith training. Dooku and Maul honed his ability to such an extent that Savage was contending with, and, in most cases, besting saber masters. His power showings include: lifting heavy obelisks (while being attacked by lightning), pushing a shuttle a far distance and over a cliff, shattering blaster bolt resistant mandalorian jail cells, throwing a mandalorian death watch with enough for that his gear/equipment exploded on impact, shattering massive doors, and throwing around jedi masters. When using his anger more effectively (and it should be noted, he's quick to anger), he's destroyed shielded droids plus hurled Anakin and Kenobi with one massive force wave, and has done the same to Maul and another jedi. In maxed out rage, he's force choked Dooku and Ventress simultaneously, the incident being noted as the time Savage discovered his power, suggesting his use of rage. This is Savage at his peak against Malgus who isn't even close to his. Savage is taking this without a doubt.

Lightning, unlike blaster bolts, spread throughout the body. Savage has tanked several blasts and energy based attacks that can burn holes as Malgus's lightning has shown to do, why should we assume Malgus's lightning will harm Savage any more? You're basing your conclusion on the damage of Malgus's lightning, which is damage Savage has shown to easily tank. Can Scourge tank energy attacks that travel throughout the body instead of just his armor? I've proven Savage can handle both.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I was speaking on how Vitiate's lightning is compared to other's in general. That rule doesn't just apply to him. Off a nexus, Vitiate's best lightning feat was downing a group of jedi, with only two the them managing to use their sabers appropriately before being overpowered by about 20 seconds worth of spam and then another charged attack. On paper, Malgus has him beat solidly, but instead we acknowledge Vitiate's opponents and intent. Ok, well Dooku has KO'd Anakin in a few seconds, without intending to kill him, and with a single short blast, he KO'd Bulq outright. If we consider the intent and ease, it's illogical to assume that is all he is capable of, especially in the latter case. Anakin, by far, is more powerful than those jedi. Not to mention how even Obi Wan and Kiplee were being pressed back by a one handed attack from Dooku despite having appropriate saber defenses mounted, not half assed ones.

Why are you feeling attacked? It was an example on how lightning effects can vary depending on the opponents, intent, and situation.



Got it. I misread your intention.



Indeed, he has defeated one of the best of the Jedi and I actually read the comic book where he defeated Koon recently and it was surprising to see him pull it off. Even though Malgus is more skilled, Savage has proven himself against very skilled opponents but mostly due to superior strength. However, since Malgus is a beast himself, I doubt Savage will gain much with his sheer strength here. I think that's one of the other reasons why he lost to Maul so easily. When someone can match his strength, he finds himself in a tough spot.

Since Malgus will push him to his limits, Savage will most likely abuse TK in anger and that might give him a huge advantage. Just out of curiosity, do you think Savage could defat Hope Malgus in a pure force fight?


But most lightnings don't even manage to do the damage that Malgus' lightning has done. Do you consider them all below a blaster bolt?

And Savage survived lightning yes, but it did get him down to his knees and leave him unguarded. If he reacts the same way against Malgus, he will get killed. So can he defend against it without finding himself in a disadvantageous position?(I ask this while assuming/hoping that you don't take the cut content of Sidious vs the Brothers fight seriously)

Originally posted by Sinious
Got it. I misread your intention.



Indeed, he has defeated one of the best of the Jedi and I actually read the comic book where he defeated Koon recently and it was surprising to see him pull it off. Even though Malgus is more skilled, Savage has proven himself against very skilled opponents but mostly due to superior strength. However, since Malgus is a beast himself, I doubt Savage will gain much with his sheer strength here. I think that's one of the other reasons why he lost to Maul so easily. When someone can match his strength, he finds himself in a tough spot.

Since Malgus will push him to his limits, Savage will most likely abuse TK in anger and that might give him a huge advantage. Just out of curiosity, do you think Savage could defat Hope Malgus in a pure force fight?


But most lightnings don't even manage to do the damage that Malgus' lightning has done. Do you consider them all below a blaster bolt?

And Savage survived lightning yes, but it did get him down to his knees and leave him unguarded. If he reacts the same way against Malgus, he will get killed. So can he defend against it without finding himself in a disadvantageous position?(I ask this while assuming/hoping that you don't take the cut content of Sidious vs the Brothers fight seriously)


Why do you believe Malgus is more skilled? ILS pointed out that it takes a highly talented and skilled force user to fight with a saber staff, and Savage has used it against saber masters.

I pointed out that Savage has tanked attacks that can cause similar damage, so, other than the damage Malgus's lightning has shown, you'd have to point out another reason as to why Malgus's lightning, in particular, would be more effective than multiple blaster bolts.

That's a possibility depending on how fast he can recover, and he seemed to be taking Dooku's blasts better each time. He was no longer screaming in agony as he was earlier. But if he is hurt enough or floored then it could give Malgus the upper hand (I just dismissed that notion because of the Dooku lowballing). IIRC, though, as a night brother, he was fast enough to defend himself against Ventress while he was down, and Ventress is more agile and quicker than Malgus. Just because he's floored doesn't mean he's done. And other than the scene, there's no other way to determine if Savage learned to block, but since Maul planned to face Sidious with his help, I don't see why he wouldn't have taught Savage how to block lightning

Yes, I know Savage can overcome hope Malgus in a pure force contest. If Malgus uses lightning, all that will do is piss Savage off and bring out Savage's raw power at full.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Why do you believe Malgus is more skilled? ILS pointed out that it takes a highly talented and skilled force user to fight with a saber staff, and Savage has used it against saber masters.

I pointed out that Savage has tanked attacks that can cause similar damage, so, other than the damage Malgus's lightning has shown, you'd have to point out another reason as to why Malgus's lightning, in particular, would be more effective than multiple blaster bolts.

That's a possibility depending on how fast he can recover, and he seemed to be taking Dooku's blasts better each time. He was no longer screaming in agony as he was earlier. But if he is hurt enough or floored then it could give Malgus the upper hand (I just dismissed that notion because of the Dooku lowballing). IIRC, though, as a night brother, he was fast enough to defend himself against Ventress while he was down, and Ventress is more agile and quicker than Malgus. Just because he's floored doesn't mean he's done. And other than the scene, there's no other way to determine if Savage learned to block, but since Maul planned to face Sidious with his help, I don't see why he wouldn't have taught Savage how to block lightning

Yes, I know Savage can overcome hope Malgus in a pure force contest. If Malgus uses lightning, all that will do is piss Savage off and bring out Savage's raw power at full.

In Return, Malgus was mostly dependent on his strength against Darach. At least that's what I saw from their fight. In hope, he was fighting less dependent on strength and more with skill. Satele was holding her staff with one hand and still managed to push Malgus back when she was Tk'ing the tree. It seems like he defeated someone against who he has no strength advantage. He also has a more proper training compared to Savage imo. Maul even admits that Savage has been trained to be an expendable reckless monster and lacked the discipline of a true sith.

Savage tanking Malgus' lightning cause he tanked Dooku's is an argument I can respect but the blaster thing has nothing to do with lightning. You yourself said that the whole blaster tanking thing might very well be due to his armor and while it may help him survive the lightning attack, it won't help him stand his ground in a fight.

Have you seen Dooku lowballing from me or are you referring to someone else? As I said before, Dooku's lightning is vastly superior to Malgus at this point. However since he has proven to be capable of bringing Savage down to his knees without any trouble while fighting Ventress, Malgus could do the same. It wouldn't open up holes in his body but it would bring him down to his knees and unlike Dooku, Malgus has the luxury to pour more and more lightning on him until he gets the chance to cut him down with his saber.

Maul planned on fighting Sidious before Savage's death? How so?

I agree that Savage's display of power in rage mode is superior, but I strongly disagree with the notion of Malgus' lightning making Savage stronger.

You remember Satele doing a lot better than I do.

This is what I was referring to:

http://s27.postimg.org/epxqcsqa7/Screen_Shot_2015_05_13_at_7_10_45_PM.jpg

tbh my Satele Shan Respect Thread is a good source for uh, Satele Shan material.

Originally posted by Sinious
In Return, Malgus was mostly dependent on his strength against Darach. At least that's what I saw from their fight. In hope, he was fighting less dependent on strength and more with skill. Satele was holding her staff with one hand and still managed to push Malgus back when she was Tk'ing the tree. It seems like he defeated someone against who he has no strength advantage. He also has a more proper training compared to Savage imo. Maul even admits that Savage has been trained to be an expendable reckless monster and lacked the discipline of a true sith.

Savage tanking Malgus' lightning cause he tanked Dooku's is an argument I can respect but the blaster thing has nothing to do with lightning. You yourself said that the whole blaster tanking thing might very well be due to his armor and while it may help him survive the lightning attack, it won't help him stand his ground in a fight.

Have you seen Dooku lowballing from me or are you referring to someone else? As I said before, Dooku's lightning is vastly superior to Malgus at this point. However since he has proven to be capable of bringing Savage down to his knees without any trouble while fighting Ventress, Malgus could do the same. It wouldn't open up holes in his body but it would bring him down to his knees and unlike Dooku, Malgus has the luxury to pour more and more lightning on him until he gets the chance to cut him down with his saber.

Maul planned on fighting Sidious before Savage's death? How so?

I agree that Savage's display of power in rage mode is superior, but I strongly disagree with the notion of Malgus' lightning making Savage stronger.


I was referring to Neph. That's why I accepted the notion as being a possibility from you and not him.

Anyway, Plo, from what I seen, adapted to Savage's strength and yet couldn't get the upper hand via skill. Again, Savage isn't saber master material in terms of strict skill, but you'd have to be Dooku level for it to make a huge difference, and Malgus isn't Dooku level. Satele holding Malgus off with one arm, isn't exactly helping your argument. Grievous has struck through armored mandalorians, dented a ship by punching it, etc, and yet comparing his performance against the same opponents, it's easy to establish Savage has his clear superior in strength. Ventress, herself, has crushed metal comlinks just by gripping it with her hand, and has struck jedi into unconsciousness via physical attacks, and yet her physical attacks couldn't even tickle Savage; on the contrary, she was completely ragdolled by him (Ventress's durability should also be noted: she's been knocked through massive walls). The people Savage has overpowered via strength have better strength showings than the ones Malgus has overpowered. Standard Anakin is probably on par with Malgus in strength, yet Savage has even pressed him back with his strength. As pointed out, Savage was punching holes through stone walls before his amp by Talzin.

The blaster bolt argument is more than sufficient for my case. Your argument is hinging on the damage, and as pointed out numerous times, is damage Savage can walk through. Again, why would Malgus's lightning damage him more than multiple blaster bolts? Because it's lightning? I think you're underestimating blaster bolts considerably, when, in fact, they've shown to be more lethal than most lightning. How many force users have you seen walk through blaster bolts? Even Dooku level didn't take his chances against them. I've seen the notion about Savage's armor brought up, but never a source. I also think you're underestimating the amount of power Dooku was dishing out against Savage. He was expending enough energy that he was unable to easily take Ventress out, when he otherwise could. Consider his one on one with Ventress; she barely managed to clash with him for a few seconds before succumbing to his power. And like I said, this is Savage at his peak, and the more powerful he became, he's been shown to take more damage, with Dooku's last lightning attack being the moment Savage discovered where his true power comes from: anger/rage. So a protracted lightning attack could result in Savage choking Malgus out. That's more probable than Malgus just downing him with it and then walking up and cutting his head off. Savage stood completely up and lifting heavy obelisks while being attacked by a prolonged lightning attack. Pain feeds his anger, which peak Savage learned to utilize more effectively.

If Malgus can win, it will be because of his lightning. Savage, at this point, is Malgus's clear superior in just about everything else.

SOD, Maul's conversation with Talzin confirmed he intended to draw Sidious away from Coruscant.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I was referring to Neph. That's why I accepted the notion as being a possibility from you and not him.



Ah I see.



How do you get that from Plo vs Savage? I don't remember it with details but IIRC, we didn't see much of the fight.

Malgus has insane strength and tanking feats. In Return as an apprentice, he displays an extraordinary level of physical power. In Thrid Lesson which took place right after Hope where Malgus is wounded, he still managed to display his strength against a Zabrak(ironically) Jedi. Satele holding him off only proves her own strength, not Malgus' weakness. I agree that Savage probably has a slight edge in this criteria though.



Do you think Savage is actually that good though? I mean, he did get hurt and couldn't walk properly when he came to Dathomir. I always assumed it was the armor since Savage lacks tutaminis showings and wears an armor. I don't have a source for it but that is one logical explanation of it. Its still impressive but I don't think its very relevant against lightning. And to compare lightning and blaster bolts, while I do think that lightning is a more destructive energy, its easier for another force user to learn how to defend against it compared to blaster bolts and thats why blasters appear to be more lethal. So not knowing the technique could cause some problems for Savage.



Savage was a distraction for Dooku that kept him from destroying Ventress and he wasn't competing with Ventress in a force fight so how much power he was dishing out isn't that related to why he couldn't defeat Ventress easily. And look at how Ventress defended against his lightning there. Savage did a lot worse than Ventress. The scene basically makes it clear that lightning attacks are his weakness.



Not sure about skill but I more or less agree with that.



Can't believe how I forgot about that.

Again, what have Savage Opress done to imply that he can handle Darth Malgus? The latter have defeated some of the most powerful Jedi and is counted among the greatest warriors of the mythos.

Savage Opress isn't even a proper Lord.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Savage Opress isn't even a proper Lord. Because of the Rule of Two...

And cuz he has basically zero Sith training......

Originally posted by Nephthys
And cuz he has basically zero Sith training...... Yet despite that managed to defeat two Jedi Council Members and countless other Jedi, drove back two of the greatest Jedi Knights in the Order, went toe-to-toe with Asajj Ventress and did better against Sidious than the Orders finest duelists.

I guess tutelage under the Rule of Two was just infinitely superior.

I wouldn't say he did better against Sidious than Kit did, but Agen and Saesee maybe...

Kit Fisto lost because his brilliance in dueling revolved around speed, and Sidious simply had him beat. Tbh you can't say Savage did better because he lasted longer, Sidious was toying with him relentlessly.

Tbh, my favourite aspect of Savage in general is that he tends to be the type of guy who has better feats than this iteration of Malgus, which, in turn, produces side effects such as causing Nephthys to be upset and maybe even wake him up in the middle of night screaming. I don't think it's even out of the question for Neph to be interrupted while masturbating by Savage's face popping up in his mind to say "hey bro, I'm better than Malgus, umad?" and then Neph is forced to either masturbate to 50% of Savage or just quit altogether. That's the main reason I like characters like Savage, I dunno about you guys tbh.

Originally posted by Selenial
I wouldn't say he did better against Sidious than Kit did, but Agen and Saesee maybe...

Kit Fisto lost because his brilliance in dueling revolved around speed, and Sidious simply had him beat. Tbh you can't say Savage did better because he lasted longer, Sidious was toying with him relentlessly. Ultimately its interpretation as to how much Savage was being toyed with (at any one point in the duel) and how much energy Sidious was putting in in comparison to the B-Team. I certainly rate him for being able to tag-team with Maul.

But according to Dave he did better, and his interpretation is going to be the most accurate.Originally posted by ILS
Tbh, my favourite aspect of Savage in general is that he tends to be the type of guy who has better feats than this iteration of Malgus, which, in turn, produces side effects such as causing Nephthys to be upset and maybe even wake him up in the middle of night screaming. I don't think it's even out of the question for Neph to be interrupted while masturbating by Savage's face popping up in his mind to say "hey bro, I'm better than Malgus, umad?" and then Neph is forced to either masturbate to 50% of Savage or just quit altogether. That's the main reason I like characters like Savage, I dunno about you guys tbh. I can't pretend my respect for Savage hasn't increased after reading this.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yet despite that managed to defeat two Jedi Council Members and countless other Jedi, drove back two of the greatest Jedi Knights in the Order, went toe-to-toe with Asajj Ventress and did better against Sidious than the Orders finest duelists.

I guess tutelage under the Rule of Two was just infinitely superior.

I didn't suggest he was weak. But he can't really be a proper Sith Lord if he has no sith training and seriously minimal training in the force, the jedi arts and lightsaber fencing in general.

Originally posted by ILS
Tbh, my favourite aspect of Savage in general is that he tends to be the type of guy who has better feats than this iteration of Malgus, which, in turn, produces side effects such as causing Nephthys to be upset and maybe even wake him up in the middle of night screaming. I don't think it's even out of the question for Neph to be interrupted while masturbating by Savage's face popping up in his mind to say "hey bro, I'm better than Malgus, umad?" and then Neph is forced to either masturbate to 50% of Savage or just quit altogether. That's the main reason I like characters like Savage, I dunno about you guys tbh.

Well I hate to disappoint you but since Savage isn't better than Malgus it isn't an issue for me. Ciao-ciao!