Tien vs. Krillin

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StiltmanFTW
Both at their strongest.

Galan007
Akira has stated that Krillin is the strongest human on earth(yes, Tien is classified as a human despite his third eye.) However, Krillin also stopped training after the Cell saga, while Tien was still training well into the Buu saga(and beyond.)

That said:
Cell saga Krillin would beat Cell saga Tien. Buu saga Tien should beat Cell saga Krillin.

Jmanghan
Didn't Tien injure Super Buu?

Wtf???

Galan007
No.

Jmanghan
Yes, he did.

AuraAngel
No he didn't.

Galan007
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Yes, he did. No. Get your facts straight. smile

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Yes, he did.

Um... If by "didn't he injure Super Buu", you mean that Super Buu tanked his absolute strongest attack, and barely noticed his presence, then yes. thumb up

Given that it WAS Buuhan, not just Super Buu.

SSJGGogeta
Anyway, I'd go with Tien here, given that he at least fought against Bills, while Krillin ran like a *****.

Dramatic Gecko
Tien aborted BUUTENKS not Buuhan's attack. Which is actually incredibly amazing for an earthling.

Galan007
It's not really that impressive, imo. Tien's beam hit Buutenks' energy sphere from the side while he was unprepared. This same method of cancelling/negating/dissipating the energy beam of a far more powerful foe via striking it from the side with an attack of your own, has been used in pretty much every arc in the series. Base Vegeta did the exact same thing to Pure Buu's initial earth-buster, for example--and obviously Pure Buu>>>>>>>base Vegeta.

AuraAngel
Not to mention Buutenks was aiming at Dende and Hercule. No need to shoot out a particularly powerful energy sphere.

Galan007
Good point. thumb up

Dramatic Gecko
Allright. but at the start of the Saiyan Saga Krillin's power level was 206 and Tien's was 250. And then add that the Ki Ko Ho is way more potent then the Ka Me Ha Me Ha. Meaning Tien could produce and attack much stronger than Krillin could ever make.

I know this is way earlier in the series but both Tien and Krillin are adults at this time.

I give this to Tien.

Galan007
Kikoho is extremely powerful, but it certainly doesn't guarantee a win for Tien anymore than the Destructo Disk guarantees a win for Krillin.

Like I mentioned earlier: If this is Cell-era Krillin vs. Cell-era Tien, Krillin wins. If this is Cell-era Krillin vs. Buu-era Tien, Tien wins.

Dramatic Gecko
What feat does Krillin even have in Cell Saga? Because Tien is the only human to have done anything useful in Cell Saga.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Galan007
Kikoho is extremely powerful, but it certainly doesn't guarantee a win for Tien anymore than the Destructo Disk guarantees a win for Krillin.

Like I mentioned earlier: If this is Cell-era Krillin vs. Cell-era Tien, Krillin wins. If this is Cell-era Krillin vs. Buu-era Tien, Tien wins.

Krillin didn't get stronger during Buu Saga at all?

What if we factor in fillers?

Galan007

Dramatic Gecko
I'm gonna have to go out against AT. A statement he said one time seems to go against all showings I've seen. When reading the Manga its almost always apparent that among the orignaly crew it goes Goku>Piccolo>Tien>Krillin>Yamcha's corpse.

All feats and figures support this. Tien knows way more techniques and can nullify energy attacks. Even if Tien had a slightly smaller power level I'm almost certain he'd still win.

carver9
Tien wins. Look at his fight against second form Cell.

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
Tien wins. Look at his fight against second form Cell.

It wasn't a fight. It was more or less equivalent to one boxer hugging another as long as he could knowing that as soon as he lets goes, he's getting thrashed.

Galan007
Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
I'm gonna have to go out against AT. This doesn't work. That's like me popping-into a Star Wars thread and saying: "Yeah, I don't give a shit what Lucas had to say on the matter... This is how I think it should be!!"

Akira is THE chief authority when it comes to Dragonball. What he says in official interviews becomes law/fact/canon, and can even supersede the manga. For example: in the manga, Bibidi both created, and unleashed, Pure Buu... Yet in a fairly recent interview, Akira retconned Buu's origin. Now, Pure Buu was created by unknown forces at the dawn of time/creation(even before the Kaioshin), and acted as a force of destruction--Bibidi merely released him eons later.

Point: if Akira said that Krillin is the most powerful Earthling, then Krillin is the most powerful Earthling. This is not debatable.

Originally posted by juggerman
It wasn't a fight. It was more or less equivalent to one boxer hugging another as long as he could knowing that as soon as he lets goes, he's getting thrashed. Perfectly fitting analogy. thumb up

Reflassshh
Surviving the honeymoon with 18 >>>> Anything Tien has ever done.

That loser. thumb down

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Reflassshh
Surviving the honeymoon with 18 >>>> Anything Tien has ever done.

That loser. thumb down
laughing laughing laughing

Dramatic Gecko
Originally posted by Galan007
This doesn't work. That's like me popping-into a Star Wars thread and saying: "Yeah, I don't give a shit what Lucas had to say on the matter... This is how I think it should be!!"

Akira is THE chief authority when it comes to Dragonball. What he says in official interviews becomes law/fact/canon, and can even supersede the manga. For example: in the manga, Bibidi both created, and unleashed, Pure Buu... Yet in a fairly recent interview, Akira retconned Buu's origin. Now, Pure Buu was created by unknown forces at the dawn of time/creation(even before the Kaioshin), and acted as a force of destruction--Bibidi merely released him eons later.

Point: if Akira said that Krillin is the most powerful Earthling, then Krillin is the most powerful Earthling. This is not debatable.


I feel like I struck a nerve. Did I? I'm saying that "I" have to disagree with the creator. You don't have to. You almost sound like a butthurt muslim who gets upset when someone questions muhammed.

"I" still go with Tien. You don't have to.

Dramatic Gecko
Originally posted by juggerman
It wasn't a fight. It was more or less equivalent to one boxer hugging another as long as he could knowing that as soon as he lets goes, he's getting thrashed.

Against Cell Tien didn't have a chance. Yet he's the only human to have put up any "resistance" to him at all. Its not like hugging another boxer. More like hugging Diablo while you are a measly level 5 Wizard.

carver9
Originally posted by juggerman
It wasn't a fight. It was more or less equivalent to one boxer hugging another as long as he could knowing that as soon as he lets goes, he's getting thrashed.

Tien was harming him. Cell wasn't tanking his attacks like he did against Krillin. Tien was pushing him back.

Galan007
Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
I feel like I struck a nerve. Did I? I'm saying that "I" have to disagree with the creator. You don't have to. You almost sound like a butthurt muslim who gets upset when someone questions muhammed.

"I" still go with Tien. You don't have to. Why are you getting all defensive/pissy and throwing around childish insults? I simply mentioned that one would have to be a complete idiot to say that an official statement from Akira Toriyama is incorrect, simply because it conflicts with their personal opinion on the matter. This is the creator of the franchise, whose word is absolute, telling us that Krillin is the most powerful human. Where Dragonball is concerned, Akira Toriyama's word >g_infinity ALL. Simple.

That being said, 'you' can disagree with whomever 'you' want, if it makes 'you' feel better. Just know that it makes 'you' look like a fool. thumb up

Originally posted by carver9
Tien was harming him. Cell wasn't tanking his attacks like he did against Krillin. Tien was pushing him back. Momentarily stopping Cell's forward progression with attacks that caused absolutely no damage whatsoever=/="harming" him. none

Also, Krillin never attacked Semi-Perfect Cell, so I have no clue why you would use such a faulty comparison..?

AuraAngel
Well here is a simple question: is Tien stronger than 16, 17, 18? If not then the feat is an indicator of something else.

Galan007
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Well here is a simple question: is Tien stronger than 16, 17, 18? He's not even remotely close to their level. When Tien left to go 'help' Kamiccolo with #17/Imperfect Cell, Roshi stated that he would be killed "immediately" if he tried to fight one of them. And when Tien himself watched Piccolo fight Imperfect Cell, he was completely awestruck by their power, and outright stated: "I'm useless."

Hell, even pre-RoSaT Goku stated that #17 and Kamiccolo were in a completely different league than himself--and obviously pre-RoSaT Goku>>>>>>>Tien. So yeah...

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
Tien was harming him.

Nope

AuraAngel
Originally posted by Galan007
He's not even remotely close to their level. When Tien left to go 'help' Kamiccolo with #17/Imperfect Cell, Roshi stated that he would be killed "immediately" if he tried to fight one of them. And when Tien himself watched Piccolo fight Imperfect Cell, he was completely awestruck by their power, and outright stated: "I'm useless."

Hell, even pre-RoSaT Goku stated that #17 and Kamiccolo were in a completely different league than himself--and obviously pre-RoSaT Goku>>>>>>>Tien. So yeah...

Then it is indicative of something else. Judging by the panels when Cell is hit I suppose one could say the shock factor is in play but eh.

carver9
I thought Tien was in training during all of this during the Cell saga. He probably didn't know his potential. Tien did more than what people are saying here against Cell.

https://youtu.be/0NhN86rKACA

This same Cell tanked 18 attacks.

Galan007
^ Where the manga is concerned, Tien's Kikohos pushed Cell down for a few seconds. That's all they did.

They caused no legit damage whatsoever.

Dramatic Gecko
Originally posted by Galan007
Why are you getting all defensive/pissy and throwing around childish insults? I simply mentioned that one would have to be a complete idiot to say that an official statement from Akira Toriyama is incorrect, simply because it conflicts with their personal opinion on the matter. This is the creator of the franchise, whose word is absolute, telling us that Krillin is the most powerful human. Where Dragonball is concerned, Akira Toriyama's word >g_infinity ALL. Simple.

That being said, 'you' can disagree with whomever 'you' want, if it makes 'you' feel better. Just know that it makes 'you' look like a fool. thumb up



Even if Krillin is stronger however marginally based on a fact the creator agreed with someone else in 2004 (7 years after the last GT episode) that Krillin was the strongest earthling. Its not garunteed that Krillin would win. Infact the Kikoho would probably kill Krillin one hit. And to my knowledge Tien, unlike Krillin's destructo disc, rarely misses.

Tien wins.

Dramatic Gecko
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Where the manga is concerned, Tien's Kikohos pushed Cell down for a few seconds. That's all they did.

They caused no legit damage whatsoever.

Its impressive because he's an Earthling and not even Android 16 could compete with Cell stage 2. Stop dismissing it because in your opinion its not important.

Galan007
Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Even if Krillin is stronger however marginally based on a fact the creator agreed with someone else in 2004 (7 years after the last GT episode) that Krillin was the strongest earthling. Its not garunteed that Krillin would win. Infact the Kikoho would probably kill Krillin one hit. And to my knowledge Tien, unlike Krillin's destructo disc, rarely misses. Are you assuming Krillin would just stand there and allow the Kikoho to hit him? If so, yeah Tien probably wins. If Krillin does the logical thing, and simply doesn't give Tien the chance to fire a Kikoho, he's going to win every single time.

Also, the Kikoho is almost always a last ditch attack from Tien--what he uses when everything else has failed. The chances of him using it right out of the gate against Krillin are slim-to-none. smile

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Its impressive because he's an Earthling and not even Android 16 could compete with Cell stage 2. Stop dismissing it because in your opinion its not important. Stop acting bitter. I didn't 'dismiss' anything--I stated exactly what the Kikohos did to Cell. smile

AuraAngel
http://i20.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/374/dragon-ball-70552.jpg

Cell is pretty scuffled. Not that it matters.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/6/63/Sorbet.png/revision/latest?cb=20141121164817

This guy apparently hurts Goku. Tien clearly caught Cell unawares and had him confused. And his attack isn't exactly the most normal.

Astner
It was also established in the manga that Krillin was the stronger of the two.

http://i.imgur.com/9R8fJuP.png

Galan007
Nice catch. I overlooked that. thumb up

Dramatic Gecko
Forgot Yamcha said that. And I guess he can sense power levels.

And thinking back I'm sure the difference in power is from Guru's power unlock back on Namek. But then Krillin never trained with King Kai.

They would still be strong enough to each other that when they fight its relatively fair with an overall edge to Krillin. But if you look at the fights they've had Tien is also much smarter than Krillin. I know it sounds like a low ball but try to think of a time when Krillin didn't use anything but sheer power to defeat an enemy. And all the examples of Tien using other means to defeat a stronger opponent.

Examples:
Krillin uses Destructo Disc and Scatterball to overwhelm enemies purely offensive measures. Infact one of his few strokes of genius was use of the Solar Flare which is Tien's move.

Tien while yes he possess a purely offensive blast is also the one to use techniques like Solar Flare, Multi-Form and Mimicry (which led to his use of Kamehameha and Mafuba).

Krillin may be stronger (whether I like it or not) but Tien's arsenal of both offensive and tactical moves is the reason he beat Goku who was also marginally stronger than him at the 22nd World Tournament.

Galan007

StiltmanFTW
Damn.

Thanks, guys. Of course I knew about the interview. With Yamcha's statement and BoG bio backing it up, I can finally accept Krillin as Tien's superior.

Dramatic Gecko
That's cool. Just consider the power levels and forget the other shit I brought up. Classic DBZ thinking.

Galan007
Wait a sec...

-The creator of the series confirmed that Krillin is the strongest human in an official interview.
-Yamcha(who can very accurately sense ki) confirmed that Krillin is the strongest human in the manga.
-Krillin's official BoG bio confirmed that he is the strongest human.

...Yet you're upset that people think Krillin is the strongest human? Lol, c'mon. srsly

Dramatic Gecko
Originally posted by Galan007
Wait a sec...

-The creator of the series confirmed that Krillin is the strongest human in an official interview.
-Yamcha(who can very accurately sense ki) confirmed that Krillin is the strongest human in the manga.
-Krillin's official BoG bio confirmed that he is the strongest human.

...Yet you're upset that people think Krillin is the strongest human? Lol, c'mon. srsly

I still think you're confused. I'm not disputing this. I feel like what I said before was completely ignored and I hate having to repeat points all over again (though I see you have no issue with that).

I was just saying that its entirely feasible that Tien could still win. At this point in time their power difference wouldn't be that much and Tien's tactical moves (like solar flare, multi form, mimicry, mafuba and that thing where he makes people's energy attacks **** off) give him a very note worthy edge over Krillin whoo's only ever used solar flare as a tactical move. Other than that just pure offensive types like the disc and the scatter ball.

Galan007
I've already agreed that Tien can win if he successfully dropped a Kikoho on Krillin. Sans that, I think Krillin would stomp him quite decisively, as he is obviously powerful enough to keep Tien on the constant defensive. In a forum fight, Tien would likely never be allowed to muster any of your alleged 'game changing attacks', imo. Krillin would be all over him.

Quincy
Battle Beast that's whats up

Galan007
cool

cdtm
Rethinking this, I'm guessing Krillin can dodge Kikoho. It's strong, but also telegraphed, which is why Ten refused to even try it on Goku in their rematch. He'd just be wasting energy, and giving up even more advantage to Krillin.

He's unlikely to catch him with a solar flare for the same reason, and vice versa.

Utrigita
Where does this leave Uub? Isn't he technically human?

Galan007
Uub was undoubtedly the strongest human(yes, he was a human) by the time the 28th WMAT rolled around. However, that was 10 years after the Buu saga--prior to that, the title of 'strongest human' was always Krillin's.

cdtm
Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Even if Krillin is stronger however marginally based on a fact the creator agreed with someone else in 2004 (7 years after the last GT episode) that Krillin was the strongest earthling. Its not garunteed that Krillin would win. Infact the Kikoho would probably kill Krillin one hit. And to my knowledge Tien, unlike Krillin's destructo disc, rarely misses.

Tien wins.

Ten's also only used it via ambush attack.

In his second fight with Goku, he claimed Goku would just dodge the kikoho if he saw it coming.

The tech does have a pretty obvious tell and charge up, and it goes in a pretty predictible straight line.

Dramatic Gecko
That's what I mean. Tien knew Goku would just dodge a predictable offensive attack and instead attacked with multi form and laser eyes.

Power= Krillin>Tien

Tactical= Tien>Krillin

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