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Who wins this fight?

How could your forget this debate when you and Quan went at it..

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=494763&pagenumber=18

Viktor dies. Marcus was not only more powerful than him as he was the original Vampire, but he's a hybrid as well.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
How could your forget this debate when you and Quan went at it..

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=494763&pagenumber=18

Well, I would call that a debate really. I'd call it Quan picking the wrong person as usual, and then fumbling around trying to figure out how to support such a silly stance. Weird that I searched and it didn't come up as I wanted to bump that one.

marcus for the win

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Well, I would call that a debate really. I'd call it Quan picking the wrong person as usual, and then fumbling around trying to figure out how to support such a silly stance. Weird that I searched and it didn't come up as I wanted to bump that one. You are an idiot. Viktor still wins today.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are an idiot. Viktor still wins today.

viktor was physically afraid of Markus !

what movie where you watching. markus is so so sooooo much more powerful, deadly and freak'n scary then old skin and blood viktor

i swear to god quan you are just here to annoy us and spite a character

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
viktor was physically afraid of Markus !

what movie where you watching. markus is so so sooooo much more powerful, deadly and freak'n scary then old skin and blood viktor Viktot is smarter and will get the win just like he beat the hybrid was who physically greater than he was.

There's a reason Markus was his *****.

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
i swear to god quan you are just here to annoy us and spite a character Evidence>>>your emotions.

Yeah, Marcus would kick Vic's @ss

Originally posted by Scoobless
Yeah, Marcus would kick Vic's @ss Based on ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Evidence>>>your emotions.

hypocrite, you fan boy over voldertitties and krueger in any and every thread

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
hypocrite, you fan boy over voldertitties and krueger in any and every thread They win based off the evidence, their aggression,and their abilities.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They win based off the evidence, their aggression,and their abilities.

and yet viktor had to be smarter to gain any form of advantage over karkus because he knew he couldn't physically handle him or william

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
and yet viktor had to be smarter to gain any form of advantage over karkus because he knew he couldn't physically handle him or william He did not want to kill him because he felt his fate was tied into the vampire that started it all. Actually watch the movies.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
How could your forget this debate when you and Quan went at it..

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=494763&pagenumber=18



Yeah, I don't really see the point in bringing this fight up again. We all know how it will turn out. Quan is too stubborn to admit the facts that Markus>Viktor. Might as well just bumped the old thread which, btw, was where I first posted on the forums.


Off topic, I just rewatched Underworld: The Awakening on Blu-ray last night. Selene doesn't put up with any shit in that one. A fine movie but not as good as the others. Evolution will probably always be my favorite of the series.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Well, I would call that a debate really. I'd call it Quan picking the wrong person as usual, and then fumbling around trying to figure out how to support such a silly stance. Weird that I searched and it didn't come up as I wanted to bump that one.

This forum's search engine can be questionable at best sometimes. I literally use google to search the term + "site:www.killermovies.com" to find things on here. It works more reliably.

look how much effort it took to kill victor then compare it to how much i took to kill Markus.

look at Markus' abilities compared to viktors... watch the movie yourself Quan

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
look how much effort it took to kill victor then compare it to how much i took to kill Markus.

look at Markus' abilities compared to viktors... watch the movie yourself Quan Viktor was chealshotted whereas Selene just waxed Markus. Viktor wins. Smarter and more tactical. He takes damage like against Michael but prevails.

Markus. Viktor has lost one on one battle that he fought in the movies.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Markus. Viktor has lost one on one battle that he fought in the movies. What ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor was chealshotted whereas Selene just waxed Markus. Viktor wins. Smarter and more tactical. He takes damage like against Michael but prevails.

What you mean was, Viktor lost to Selene when he should have been able to beat her since he was far older than she was.

Selene had to amp herself with blood from the most powerful guy in the series to take down Marcus.

Not really comparable, and if you do compare them Viktor looks worse.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Yeah, Marcus would kick Vic's @ss

of course scoob, it's painfully obvious Marcus was the more powerful Vampire.

Originally posted by KingD19
What you mean was, Viktor lost to Selene when he should have been able to beat her since he was far older than she was.

Selene had to amp herself with blood from the most powerful guy in the series to take down Marcus.

Not really comparable, and if you do compare them Viktor looks worse. Viktor was busy fighting Michael a more powerful hybrid. That's when Selene made her move.

Selene took him on one on one in fair combat. She won.

Viktor last to Selene(un amped)

Viktor lost to Lucian

Viktor was disarmed and beaten by his daughter

Viktor was also getting handled by newly turned Michael at first and had a harder time with him than Marcus did against a slightly more seasoned Michael

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Viktor last to Selene(un amped)

Viktor lost to Lucian

Viktor was disarmed and beaten by his daughter

Viktor was also getting handled by newly turned Michael at first and had a harder time with him than Marcus did against a slightly more seasoned Michael Slene attacked him while he fought someone else. Context.

Viktor was boxed in due to sunlight. Context.

Viktor was beating Michael. Lucian knew Viktor was beyond him.

So you truly think in a one v one fight, Viktor can beat his creator who is amped by the hybrid strain?

Originally posted by KingD19
So you truly think in a one v one fight, Viktor can beat his creator who is amped by the hybrid strain? Yes, due to superior tactics. He was always craftier than Markus.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, due to superior tactics. He was always craftier than Markus.

What tactics could he use in a straight up fight? What tactics did he ever use in any of his fights?

And let's make a direct comparison.

Viktor struggled greatly with a fledgling Michael.

Marcus treated a far more competent Michael like he wasn't worth his time and "killed" him fairly easily.

You're...well you're Quan if you think "tactics" will change the fact that Marcus has Viktor outclassed in all the areas that count in a fight. Viktor gets impaled with a wing.

Originally posted by KingD19
What tactics could he use in a straight up fight? What tactics did he ever use in any of his fights?

And let's make a direct comparison.

Viktor struggled greatly with a fledgling Michael.

Marcus treated a far more competent Michael like he wasn't worth his time and "killed" him fairly easily.

You're...well you're Quan if you think "tactics" will change the fact that Marcus has Viktor outclassed in all the areas that count in a fight. Viktor gets impaled with a wing. Damage soak and finding leverage to defeat faster and stronger opponents like Michael.

Michael was faster and stronger yet Viktor prevailed.

Untrue. Michael was not killed by Markus. Michael outclassed him too but Viktor was about to kill him before Selene jumped in.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Damage soak and finding leverage to defeat faster and stronger opponents like Michael.

Michael was faster and stronger yet Viktor prevailed.

Untrue. Michael was not killed by Markus. Michael outclassed him too but Viktor was about to kill him before Selene jumped in.

Damage soak won't do him any good when he gets impaled by his wings. Or he uses his greater speed and strength to his continued advantage.

Viktor only beat Michael because it was his first transformation and he was essentially feral. He also forgot just how much more powerful he was.

And that's why I put "killed" in quotes. He came back to life, but he was as good as dead for a while and Marcus put him down with ease is the point I'm making. So yeah, Marcus wins, but of course you say he won't because you like Viktor more.

Lucian beat him.. Impaled him.. There was no context. not to mention than Viktor tried to cheapshot him from the side instead of face him in direct combat. when he did, he got impaled for his troubles. He lost

He also lost to his daughter.. she easily disarmed him and beat him. easily

Well then he's not very tactful is he? you claimed he was, but really he's a poor strategist. he failed to see that his plan could be undone by keeping Selene alive.

he failed to see that Selene was falling for Michael and he could turn again him

He failed to see that Kraven actually lied about killing Lucian and put him second in command. A very poor choice as that same Kraven put together a whole plot to kill him and the elders and he failed to notice.

he failed to notice his daughter was falling in love with a Lycan. The whole time it was right under his nose and he never saw it until she was already pregnant and basically showing her love for him.

he failed to notice Lucian would try and escape his bondage and get free and set others free. Thus, he wasn't able to stop him when he escaped with others

he failed to see (forget his name) the guy who gave the key to Lucian to break free of his neck spikes. He believed he had nothing to do with it and accepted this. Even though he was painfully wrong.

he kept Tanus alive when he should've killed him. Tanus know of his attempted secret to make himself the oldest and strongest vampire. Tanus knew the real truth that Marcus was the oldest and most powerful vampire. He even know of his father who was the originator of the corvinus strain. He knew of the whole killing selene's family.. burying of William etc etc. He kept him alive and he ended up telling Selene everything. Poor choice again

It seems Viktor has a storied history of being a buffoon and not having the slightest clue what is going on around him.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Lucian beat him.. Impaled him.. There was no context. not to mention than Viktor tried to cheapshot him from the side instead of face him in direct combat. when he did, he got impaled for his troubles. He lost

He also lost to his daughter.. she easily disarmed him and beat him. easily

Well then he's not very tactful is he? you claimed he was, but really he's a poor strategist. he failed to see that his plan could be undone by keeping Selene alive.

he failed to see that Selene was falling for Michael and he could turn again him

He failed to see that Kraven actually lied about killing Lucian and put him second in command. A very poor choice as that same Kraven put together a whole plot to kill him and the elders and he failed to notice.

he failed to notice his daughter was falling in love with a Lycan. The whole time it was right under his nose and he never saw it until she was already pregnant and basically showing her love for him.

he failed to notice Lucian would try and escape his bondage and get free and set others free. Thus, he wasn't able to stop him when he escaped with others

he failed to see (forget his name) the guy who gave the key to Lucian to break free of his neck spikes. He believed he had nothing to do with it and accepted this. Even though he was painfully wrong.

he kept Tanus alive when he should've killed him. Tanus know of his attempted secret to make himself the oldest and strongest vampire. Tanus knew the real truth that Marcus was the oldest and most powerful vampire. He even know of his father who was the originator of the corvinus strain. He knew of the whole killing selene's family.. burying of William etc etc. He kept him alive and he ended up telling Selene everything. Poor choice again

It seems Viktor has a storied history of being a buffoon and not having the slightest clue what is going on around him.

Don't forget his tactics were so great that Amelia got ambushed and swarmed by Lycans because Viktor didn't anticipate that.

exactly, just another example of his piss poor perception and strategy. Seems he can't even put the right people in charge or foresee simple and basic stuff a 10 year old could figure out. Marcus wins even easier than I first thought.

i think i am now inlove with KuRuPT

Originally posted by KingD19
Damage soak won't do him any good when he gets impaled by his wings. Or he uses his greater speed and strength to his continued advantage.

Viktor only beat Michael because it was his first transformation and he was essentially feral. He also forgot just how much more powerful he was.

And that's why I put "killed" in quotes. He came back to life, but he was as good as dead for a while and Marcus put him down with ease is the point I'm making. So yeah, Marcus wins, but of course you say he won't because you like Viktor more. His wings will get sliced off with Viktor's sword if he tries that shit.

Michael was more powerful and faster. He tried to kill him and was beaten. You can't forget how powerful you are while going all out. Quit making shit up.

No, that is not accurate and was not a fair fight. Selene killed his ass in a fair fight. She needed to wait while he was engaging Michael to cheapshot strike the mighty Viktor.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Lucian beat him.. Impaled him.. There was no context. not to mention than Viktor tried to cheapshot him from the side instead of face him in direct combat. when he did, he got impaled for his troubles. He lost

He also lost to his daughter.. she easily disarmed him and beat him. easily

Well then he's not very tactful is he? you claimed he was, but really he's a poor strategist. he failed to see that his plan could be undone by keeping Selene alive.

he failed to see that Selene was falling for Michael and he could turn again him

He failed to see that Kraven actually lied about killing Lucian and put him second in command. A very poor choice as that same Kraven put together a whole plot to kill him and the elders and he failed to notice.

he failed to notice his daughter was falling in love with a Lycan. The whole time it was right under his nose and he never saw it until she was already pregnant and basically showing her love for him.

he failed to notice Lucian would try and escape his bondage and get free and set others free. Thus, he wasn't able to stop him when he escaped with others

he failed to see (forget his name) the guy who gave the key to Lucian to break free of his neck spikes. He believed he had nothing to do with it and accepted this. Even though he was painfully wrong.

he kept Tanus alive when he should've killed him. Tanus know of his attempted secret to make himself the oldest and strongest vampire. Tanus knew the real truth that Marcus was the oldest and most powerful vampire. He even know of his father who was the originator of the corvinus strain. He knew of the whole killing selene's family.. burying of William etc etc. He kept him alive and he ended up telling Selene everything. Poor choice again

It seems Viktor has a storied history of being a buffoon and not having the slightest clue what is going on around him. The context was the sunlight kept his boxed in so he was unable to move. Lucian showed he couldn't even kill him despite the advantage. Context, ugly.

He was not trying to kill her and his plan was to draw Lucian out. Once he found out she carried an abomination he ended it. He prevailed. He was done playing games and was through with his whore daughter.

He is not all knowing and woke up and was betrayed by Kraven. He was not all knowing. He undid Kraven and they were all shitting their pants. Viktor woke up early and started taking Lycans out. Viktor was the greatest leader in their history.

He was unable to know their involvement. He just came to and took steps to end him. The only reason she turned was Kraven's betrayal of telling her Viktor killed her family.

Due to Lucian showing him proof. Viktor being awakened changed everything. Viktor was still in power despite the Lycans uprising. The vampires returned to power through his leadership. He was masterful whereas Markus was his *****.

Again, he isn't all knowing. Markus failed to free his brother or even find him until Vimtor was dead. He ruled over him with an iron fist for centuries.

Viktor was already dead at that point. Markus died pretty quickly as well. Markus was not good at solidifying power he just went on some berserker quest which cost both he and his brothers lives.

Call him whatever you want but Markus was his ***** for over a thousand years so Viktor >>>Markus in terms of intelligence. He always kept the first of the species in check because he's smarter than Markus who was kind of stupid.

LOL. If he was his "*****" then he would've killed him. Only reason Markus didn't kill him was because Viktor had the loyalty of all the other vampires under his command. That's obvious to anyone who doesn't have their head up Viktor's ass.

Originally posted by Star428
LOL. If he was his "*****" then he would've killed him. Only reason Markus didn't kill him was because Viktor had the loyalty of all the other vampires under his command. That's obvious to anyone who doesn't have their head up Viktor's ass. So Viktor had him at his mercy because he's more cunning. Viktor wins this fight because a he's more cunning as well.

I'm ****ing amazing.

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
i think i am now inlove with KuRuPT

No your still in love with me.

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
viktor was physically afraid of Markus !

what movie where you watching. markus is so so sooooo much more powerful, deadly and freak'n scary then old skin and blood viktor

What movie were YOU watching? When did Viktor show he was afraid of Markus? He was afraid of what might happen to himself and other vampires if the first one were to die. He was never shown in personal fear of Markus.

I'm not saying Viktor wins, but remember Viktor never even encountered Markus at his strongest. Markus didn't become a hybrid until after Viktor was dead. Viktor was called the strongest vampire, but that was probably just Selene being loyal to him as opposed to out and out fact. He has some nice feats of manhandling werewolves and fighting the hybrid. Unfortunately Markus is a hybrid that can fly and all that jazz. I don't see Viktor winning.

Plus he also got his face chopped off by Selene. That makes him a *****. At least Markus got killed by an amped up Selene. Viktor had no such excuse. Of course her being able to kill Viktor in itself made no sense, but meh.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What ? You surprise? You have watched the movies right?

Originally posted by Kotor3
You surprise? You have watched the movies right? Viktor wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor wins. You said that already. You are wrong. Provide evidence or your concession is accepted as usual.

Originally posted by Surtur
What movie were YOU watching? When did Viktor show he was afraid of Markus? He was afraid of what might happen to himself and other vampires if the first one were to die. He was never shown in personal fear of Markus.

I'm not saying Viktor wins, but remember Viktor never even encountered Markus at his strongest. Markus didn't become a hybrid until after Viktor was dead. Viktor was called the strongest vampire, but that was probably just Selene being loyal to him as opposed to out and out fact. He has some nice feats of manhandling werewolves and fighting the hybrid. Unfortunately Markus is a hybrid that can fly and all that jazz. I don't see Viktor winning.

Plus he also got his face chopped off by Selene. That makes him a *****. At least Markus got killed by an amped up Selene. Viktor had no such excuse. Of course her being able to kill Viktor in itself made no sense, but meh.

The reason Selene believed Viktor was the most powerful was because of the lies she was told. This was revealed in No. 2 that viktor had deceived the covenant into believe he was. However, Tanon goes on record to start that I was all a lie and Marcus was actually the oldest and most powerful vampire.

Originally posted by Kotor3
You said that already. You are wrong. Provide evidence or your concession is accepted as usual. I already have. He wins in the same manner he defeated a faster and more powerful hybrid in Michael. Viktor is powerful and cunning enough to get the win here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The context was the sunlight kept his boxed in so he was unable to move. Lucian showed he couldn't even kill him despite the advantage. Context, ugly.

He was not trying to kill her and his plan was to draw Lucian out. Once he found out she carried an abomination he ended it. He prevailed. He was done playing games and was through with his whore daughter.

He is not all knowing and woke up and was betrayed by Kraven. He was not all knowing. He undid Kraven and they were all shitting their pants. Viktor woke up early and started taking Lycans out. Viktor was the greatest leader in their history.

He was unable to know their involvement. He just came to and took steps to end him. The only reason she turned was Kraven's betrayal of telling her Viktor killed her family.

Due to Lucian showing him proof. Viktor being awakened changed everything. Viktor was still in power despite the Lycans uprising. The vampires returned to power through his leadership. He was masterful whereas Markus was his *****.

Again, he isn't all knowing. Markus failed to free his brother or even find him until Vimtor was dead. He ruled over him with an iron fist for centuries.

Viktor was already dead at that point. Markus died pretty quickly as well. Markus was not good at solidifying power he just went on some berserker quest which cost both he and his brothers lives.

Call him whatever you want but Markus was his ***** for over a thousand years so Viktor >>>Markus in terms of intelligence. He always kept the first of the species in check because he's smarter than Markus who was kind of stupid.

total lies... Viktor tried to cheapshot Lucian because he was clearly worried about being able to take him one v one. Which obviously turned out to be true. He allowed himself to be maneuvered into that vulnerable position. You call that good tactics? I call that him being tactically inept

Again no, watch the movie... The was SWRINGING his sword at her to hit her and presumably kill her (he had no issue killing her as we saw a little later) Yet for all his troubles he was disarmed of his weapon with a sword at his throat by his daughter. Easily I might add.

You don't have to be all knowing to see some of these things coming. A 5th grader would know keeping Tanus alive could expose all the lies he's tried to cover up. That is basic common sense, something he clearly lacks considering how piss poor he is about perceiving situations.

You don't have to be all knowing to see that Selene was falling for Michael, it was pretty obvious. Again, the reason Selene turned on him was because his lies were exposed. He didn't even need to keep her alive in the fisrt place but did. He put Kraven in charge who was clearly inept and a liar and plotted to kill him. He would've succeeded in doing so. Viktor would've been asleep and never known a thing. THIS is the person he placed in charge. Fortunate enough for him he was awoken ahead of schedule or he'd be dead. It had nothing to do with him seeing it coming or planning for it or doing a god damn thing about it. He put somebody in charge that was able to betray him EASILY.

I could go on and on about how piss poor he is at strategizing and reading situation. Common sense even. I've listed just some, but they illustrate what an incompetent buffoon he is.

BTW.. why do you keep calling him MarKus... It's MARCUS clownshoes. You can't even get his name right, something so simple. Yet you act like you're an expert on the Underworld. The only thing you're an expert at is losing all debates you enter.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
total lies... Viktor tried to cheapshot Lucian because he was clearly worried about being able to take him one v one. Which obviously turned out to be true. He allowed himself to be maneuvered into that vulnerable position. You call that good tactics? I call that him being tactically inept

Again no, watch the movie... The was SWRINGING his sword at her to hit her and presumably kill her (he had no issue killing her as we saw a little later) Yet for all his troubles he was disarmed of his weapon with a sword at his throat by his daughter. Easily I might add.

You don't have to be all knowing to see some of these things coming. A 5th grader would know keeping Tanus alive could expose all the lies he's tried to cover up. That is basic common sense, something he clearly lacks considering how piss poor he is about perceiving situations.

You don't have to be all knowing to see that Selene was falling for Michael, it was pretty obvious. Again, the reason Selene turned on him was because his lies were exposed. He didn't even need to keep her alive in the fisrt place but did. He put Kraven in charge who was clearly inept and a liar and plotted to kill him. He would've succeeded in doing so. Viktor would've been asleep and never known a thing. THIS is the person he placed in charge. Fortunate enough for him he was awoken ahead of schedule or he'd be dead. It had nothing to do with him seeing it coming or planning for it or doing a god damn thing about it. He put somebody in charge that was able to betray him EASILY.

I could go on and on about how piss poor he is at strategizing and reading situation. Common sense even. I've listed just some, but they illustrate what an incompetent buffoon he is.

BTW.. why do you keep calling him MarKus... It's MARCUS clownshoes. You can't even get his name right, something so simple. Yet you act like you're an expert on the Underworld. The only thing you're an expert at is losing all debates you enter. He took an advantageous position and attacked after he came after him. That's all. Lucian was coming to kill him. Quit being a woman about battle. I call weakness exploitation boxing him in to be the on,u reason he won because it's true. Viktor will die in the su light so he had no choice and survived anyways.

No, he parried with her and was not trying to kill her. He explained that ruse was to draw out Lucian. He was appalled by her actions but at no point tried to kill her. He took her prisoner he didn't even kill her then to put her to a. Vote by her latest transgression.

Tanus was banished and none of this came back to hurt Viktor while he was alive. Viktor perceived the situation controlling Markus to a tee for hundreds of years.

Viktor just woke up. He wasn't there to see her interact with Michael at all. He tried to kill Michael the moment he saw him. You're an idiot. You act like he chaperoned their interactions. Quit being so stupid. Kraven was a traitor but Selene awakened Viktor who became aware of his plotting so that didn't stop him either.

Viktor still was never challenged by Markus.

Markus is the correct spelling of the name you ignorant fool. I detest ignoring fanboys such as yourself who don't even know the proper spelling is his name.

In evolution prologue it clearly states,

Markus, bitten by bat, became the blood leader of the vampires.

A clear "k" just like Viktor is spelled with a "k." Go back to Wikipedia where they continuously spell it wrong.

In the movie you idiot they spell it Markus.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already have. He wins in the same manner he defeated a faster and more powerful hybrid in Michael. Viktor is powerful and cunning enough to get the win here. What movie version did he defeat Michael? The one that was shown in the US, he did not defeat Michael and used help from his men when fighting Michael.

Since you are making up your own version of the movie your concession is accepted once again.

Originally posted by Kotor3
What movie version did he defeat Michael? The one that was shown in the US, he did not defeat Michael and used help from his men when fighting Michael.

Since you are making up your own version of the movie your concession is accepted once again. Viktor was about to kill him before Selene intervened. If you deny Viktor had him at his mercy then you're a delusional poster who just denies facts. I will never deny a fact. Ever.

Marcus wins. Eldest vampire (ie Original Vamp Elder), made more powerful by the Lycan blood and most importantly, he didn't get his head split in two like some chump by baseline vampire. Selene had to amp with the OG Corvinus immortal blood to take down Marcus.

Anyone who argues differently is arguing against the films and is factually an imbecile

Originally posted by Robtard
Marcus wins. Eldest vampire (ie Original Vamp Elder), made more powerful by the Lycan blood and most importantly, he didn't get his head split in two like some chump by baseline vampire. Selene had to amp with the OG Corvinus immortal blood to take down Marcus.

Anyone who argues differently is arguing against the films and is factually an imbecile


But...but tactics?!

Originally posted by Robtard
Marcus wins. Eldest vampire (ie Original Vamp Elder), made more powerful by the Lycan blood and most importantly, he didn't get his head split in two like some chump by baseline vampire. Selene had to amp with the OG Corvinus immortal blood to take down Marcus.

Anyone who argues differently is arguing against the films and is factually an imbecile Markus is spelled with k, wiki warrior.

He was cheapshotted. She couldn't directly take him on. She killed Markus straight up. He also failed to kill her throughout the film. She didn't suddenly turn on him.

Viktor wins over Markus. At least spell his name right. I'd figure with bashar correcting you left and right you'd do your homework.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Markus is spelled with k, wiki warrior.

He was cheapshotted. She couldn't directly take him on. She killed Markus straight up. He also failed to kill her throughout the film. She didn't suddenly turn on him.

Viktor wins over Markus. At least spell his name right. I'd figure with bashar correcting you left and right you'd do your homework.

Either works. It also looks better with a C, loser.

Now you're making excuses again. Selene had to amp herself to take down Marcus. Marcus defeated an older, more experienced and more powerful Michael. Did you even pay attention to these awful films?

Good job showing everyone that you're factually an imbecile who argues against film lore

ps I love how I totally bonded you two <3.

No Amp Selene killed Viktor.

She needed the blood of the most powerful being in the world to make her able to defeat Marcus. And both Selene and Alexander said as much. I guess we ignore what the characters say...unless they're Quan's fav's.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He took an advantageous position and attacked after he came after him. That's all. Lucian was coming to kill him. Quit being a woman about battle. I call weakness exploitation boxing him in to be the on,u reason he won because it's true. Viktor will die in the su light so he had no choice and survived anyways.

No, he parried with her and was not trying to kill her. He explained that ruse was to draw out Lucian. He was appalled by her actions but at no point tried to kill her. He took her prisoner he didn't even kill her then to put her to a. Vote by her latest transgression.

Tanus was banished and none of this came back to hurt Viktor while he was alive. Viktor perceived the situation controlling Markus to a tee for hundreds of years.

Viktor just woke up. He wasn't there to see her interact with Michael at all. He tried to kill Michael the moment he saw him. You're an idiot. You act like he chaperoned their interactions. Quit being so stupid. Kraven was a traitor but Selene awakened Viktor who became aware of his plotting so that didn't stop him either.

Viktor still was never challenged by Markus.

Markus is the correct spelling of the name you ignorant fool. I detest ignoring fanboys such as yourself who don't even know the proper spelling is his name.

In evolution prologue it clearly states,

Markus, bitten by bat, became the blood leader of the vampires.

A clear "k" just like Viktor is spelled with a "k." Go back to Wikipedia where they continuously spell it wrong.

In the movie you idiot they spell it Markus.



If Viktor was so powerful.. why did he flee when he saw Lucian coming? Why did he hide when Lucian went down there looking for him and spring up from the side to attack him if he could take him easily? Lucian still easily parried the cheapshot. The reality is, Lucain maneuvered Viktor into that position. He beat him, plain and simple

Lies, he ACTIVELY swung his sword at her to kill her or hurt her. He was simply just blocking attacks, he was attacking back. Guess what, he was disarmed for his troubles and easily beaten. No he wasn't trying to lure Lucian back and that's why he lost to his daughter WUT?? you're so dumb sometimes it's unreal. HE HAD ALREADY lured him back. He was coming back to get her already, that is how he ended up fighting his daughter because he was already lured back. That isn't why he lost, he lost because he's usually beaten by anybody with a little bit of skill. We see him ACTIVELY swing his sword at her... and NO POINT did he say he had no plans to kill her or that he was faking the fight. Movie scenes greater than your conjecture. Either post the narration that says he was trying to kill her, or we'll just go with what we can all see, he was.

Doesn't matter if it didn't come back to bite him while he was alive. It was foolish for him to even take the chance in keeping him alive you buffoon. That was the mistake. Luckily it didn't come out sooner, but the reality is he should've eliminated him long ago, but like usual he's a moron

Selene BECAME aware of his plotting NOT Viktor, that piss poor strategist didn't have the faintest clue Kraven was going to betray him. That moron didn't even know Kraven faked Lucian's whole death. He put Kraven in charge, that is how piss poor his judgment is. LUCKILY he was awoken but not by his own doing or because he knew what was going on. Others perceived his idiotic choices and figure out the real deal. Buffoonery

The reality is, Viktor as shown by the movies is a horrible strategist and terrible at putting the right people in charge. he's terrible and figuring out what is really going on, even when a 5th grader could figure it out. he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, then again, neither are you which is why you must like him.

I've seen it spelled both ways.. Underworlds own movie page spells it with a C... so does wiki... so do many other sites. Nice try though

Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor was about to kill him before Selene intervened. If you deny Viktor had him at his mercy then you're a delusional poster who just denies facts. I will never deny a fact. Ever.

Clownshoes, did you forget that Viktor needed help from his death dealers who fired numerous bullets into him. Did you forget that Viktor was wielding a sword while Michael wasn't armed at all. Odd considering how formidable and powerful you claim he is.

I do think Viktor got jobbed out. He did casually manhandle a werewolf. Selene seeing werewolves..her response was "run the hell away" not "grab and easily crush neck". Then suddenly she's flipping around and half his damn face is falling off. Then suddenly a few movies later he fights Lucian and doesn't take him out with a few punches. Whoever created this series hates Viktor.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor was about to kill him before Selene intervened. If you deny Viktor had him at his mercy then you're a delusional poster who just denies facts. I will never deny a fact. Ever. Kill him is your assumption. Also, Viktor had help when fighting Michael. Viktor had him in a choke hold that is it. There was nothing to indicate that Michael had no strength to breakthrough.

LOL at you never denying a fact. You never deny facts that you make up.

Ur all idiots, these movies suck.

And thats with a K.

PhucKers

Nice.

Films did indeed suck.

Suck is a bit harsh imo. They weren't great, maybe even good, but they were entertaining if nothing else. For example, I liked no. 1, 2 and 3 better than I liked Xmen no. 2, No. 3

Originally posted by Robtard
Either works. It also looks better with a C, loser.

Now you're making excuses again. Selene had to amp herself to take down Marcus. Marcus defeated an older, more experienced and more powerful Michael. Did you even pay attention to these awful films?

Good job showing everyone that you're factually an imbecile who argues against film lore

ps I love how I totally bonded you two <3. No, since in the prologue it was spelled with a k. You can continue to make errors like in the ga e of thrones thread. Spelling confuses you.

Markus did defeat Michael but Viktor isn't Michael.

Selene directly beat him. She did need an amp but she needed a cheapshot while Viktor fought someone else because on her own she stood no chance. Viktor takes damage and comes out on top. Same conclusion with just him and Michael.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ur all idiots, these movies suck.

And thats with a K.

PhucKers



For the first time ever, I have to disagree with you, TI. I loved everyone of these movies. Yes, all 4 of them. Great entertainment. I've seen a ton of vampire movies and these films are probably my favorite of all of them. Not even the Blade movies were as good, imo. Nor were Bram Stoker's Dracula or Queen of the Damned. Not to me, anyway. I really hope they make more of them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, since in the prologue it was spelled with a k. You can continue to make errors like in the ga e of thrones thread. Spelling confuses you.

Markus did defeat Michael but Viktor isn't Michael.

Selene directly beat him. She did need an amp but she needed a cheapshot while Viktor fought someone else because on her own she stood no chance. Viktor takes damage and comes out on top. Same conclusion with just him and Michael.

I love owning you and how easily I can do so. Granted most people own you all the time, but it's still enjoyable.

Here's the ending credits for Underworld Evolution. Notice MarCus is spelled just like I said MarCus. Notice ViKtor is spelled with a K. Another loss for a long line of losses for Quan. The movies own website shows it as C as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4PYXIJJn-0

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
If Viktor was so powerful.. why did he flee when he saw Lucian coming? Why did he hide when Lucian went down there looking for him and spring up from the side to attack him if he could take him easily? Lucian still easily parried the cheapshot. The reality is, Lucain maneuvered Viktor into that position. He beat him, plain and simple

Lies, he ACTIVELY swung his sword at her to kill her or hurt her. He was simply just blocking attacks, he was attacking back. Guess what, he was disarmed for his troubles and easily beaten. No he wasn't trying to lure Lucian back and that's why he lost to his daughter WUT?? you're so dumb sometimes it's unreal. HE HAD ALREADY lured him back. He was coming back to get her already, that is how he ended up fighting his daughter because he was already lured back. That isn't why he lost, he lost because he's usually beaten by anybody with a little bit of skill. We see him ACTIVELY swing his sword at her... and NO POINT did he say he had no plans to kill her or that he was faking the fight. Movie scenes greater than your conjecture. Either post the narration that says he was trying to kill her, or we'll just go with what we can all see, he was.

Doesn't matter if it didn't come back to bite him while he was alive. It was foolish for him to even take the chance in keeping him alive you buffoon. That was the mistake. Luckily it didn't come out sooner, but the reality is he should've eliminated him long ago, but like usual he's a moron

Selene BECAME aware of his plotting NOT Viktor, that piss poor strategist didn't have the faintest clue Kraven was going to betray him. That moron didn't even know Kraven faked Lucian's whole death. He put Kraven in charge, that is how piss poor his judgment is. LUCKILY he was awoken but not by his own doing or because he knew what was going on. Others perceived his idiotic choices and figure out the real deal. Buffoonery

The reality is, Viktor as shown by the movies is a horrible strategist and terrible at putting the right people in charge. he's terrible and figuring out what is really going on, even when a 5th grader could figure it out. he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, then again, neither are you which is why you must like him.

I've seen it spelled both ways.. Underworlds own movie page spells it with a C... so does wiki... so do many other sites. Nice try though Now after being wrong about the spelling and ignorantly saying I was wrong you spell it with a k like me. Do you have a shred of pride ?

Lucian warded it off but acting like someone taking an advantageous attack is cheating is someone who doesn't understand battle. False. Lucian realized it after the fact and realiEd if he widened the opening Viktor could not move. That's fine. Viktor survived and later rose to power. Without sun exploitation he cannot beat him.

He was not trying to kill her. He did not kill her after he beat her. She was taken to trial and judged. Viktor held back and beat her right after she announced her abomination. Viktor won the encounter. His words show he was trying to,lure out Lucian and only after she announces this does her fate change. I backed my case. You didn't.

False. It didn't affect him at all so it wasn't foolish. At no point was tanis responsible for anything negatively happening to Viktor. Quit saying dumb things.


He was asleep.





He awoke and changed the game. Kraven and Lucian shit bricks when Viktor was awakened.

Markus chose Viktor because he was an excellent strategist and planner. He loved for over a thousand years because he was so excellent. He supplanted Markus and I prisoner his brother. Markus was unable to save his brother while Viktor lived. Masterful.



You rely on wiki while I actually watch the movies. You're an idiot. And continue to spell it the correct way after I mocked you over it.

Seriously, Quan.

Based on feats shown between Viktor and Marcus, what makes you think a baseline Vampire can even hang with a competent hybrid? Viktor would have died easily if Michael hadn't suddenly forgotten his powers. And if he'd survived to Underworld Evolution, he certainly would have died if he fought either Micheal or Marcus.

So what feats does he have that make you think in a one v one fight, that he could stand up to the far greater strength/speed/durability, etc... of a hybrid?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Clownshoes, did you forget that Viktor needed help from his death dealers who fired numerous bullets into him. Did you forget that Viktor was wielding a sword while Michael wasn't armed at all. Odd considering how formidable and powerful you claim he is. Viktor didn't need help as he defeated him on his own. Viktor uses a sword. Sorry, Michael failed. Viktor beats Markus as well.

It is spelled Markus in the movie, but the official credits say Marcus, so the joke is on people who give a shit about how its spelled. I mean who really cares. KT why do you care, I mean you spell Khan "Kahn" and no one cares..

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, since in the prologue it was spelled with a k. You can continue to make errors like in the ga e of thrones thread. Spelling confuses you.

Markus did defeat Michael but Viktor isn't Michael.

Selene directly beat him. She did need an amp but she needed a cheapshot while Viktor fought someone else because on her own she stood no chance. Viktor takes damage and comes out on top. Same conclusion with just him and Michael.

It works either way, stop crying already. LoL, talking about spelling mistakes: "you can continue to make errors like in the ga e of thrones thread" "Ga e" isn't a word. What an idiot.

Your dodging indicates that you know you lost. Marcus is older, which makes him more powerful and he defeated a more powerful Michael. Deal with it.

Keep making excuses.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Kill him is your assumption. Also, Viktor had help when fighting Michael. Viktor had him in a choke hold that is it. There was nothing to indicate that Michael had no strength to breakthrough.

LOL at you never denying a fact. You never deny facts that you make up. Leverage, Selena's involvement and the intention of the scene. You can ignore the intention all you want but that doesn't affect my correct assessment of the scene.

Give an example.

I've seen it spelled both ways. I used to spell it with a "C" if you check the old thread but after seeing his name in the prologue to Evolution I've decided I like it with a "K" better.

Originally posted by Star428
I've seen it spelled both ways. I used to spell it with a "C" if you check the old thread but after seeing his name in the prologue to Evolution I've decided I like it with a "K" better.

Agreed, so IOW, lets keep arguing about the spelling

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I love owning you and how easily I can do so. Granted most people own you all the time, but it's still enjoyable.

Here's the ending credits for Underworld Evolution. Notice MarCus is spelled just like I said MarCus. Notice ViKtor is spelled with a K. Another loss for a long line of losses for Quan. The movies own website shows it as C as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4PYXIJJn-0 The name in the films prologue carries more weight than a credit scene. K is the same in Viktor as well. You were unaware. As Ti pointed out you repeatedly misspell Khan like he's the Mortal Kombat character Kahn. I'm smarter than you and spelling is something you're awful at.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I love owning you and how easily I can do so. Granted most people own you all the time, but it's still enjoyable.

Here's the ending credits for Underworld Evolution. Notice MarCus is spelled just like I said MarCus. Notice ViKtor is spelled with a K. Another loss for a long line of losses for Quan. The movies own website shows it as C as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4PYXIJJn-0

Originally posted by Robtard
It works either way, stop crying already.

Your dodging indicates that you know you lost. Marcus is older, which makes him more powerful and he defeated a more powerful Michael. Deal with it.

Keep making excuses. It is clearly states with a k in the film. Markus. Spell it with a c all you want. You're wrong again.

He is older. Older doesn't mean unbeatable. Viktor defeated a more powerful and faster character already. Rinse and repeat.

I argue based off facts.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The name in the films prologue carries more weight than a credit scene. K is the same in Viktor as well. You were unaware. As Ti pointed out you repeatedly misspell Khan like he's the Mortal Kombat character Kahn. I'm smarter than you and spelling is something you're awful at.

WUTTT??? I stated well before T.I. said anything that it was spelled with a K... what on God's Green earth are you talking about. We're having this discussion because I asserted before anyone that it was spelled with a C.

What are you talking about.. On what basis does a prologue of the spelling of some bodies name carry more weight than the credits. What the F are you fumbling about at again? Sometimes your stupidity is appalling. The movie credits.. the movie website.. many more sites reference it with a C.. NOT a K. You can't even get basic spelling of characters right time and time again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It is clearly states with a k in the film. Markus. Spell it with a c all you want. You're wrong again.

He is older. Older doesn't mean unbeatable. Viktor defeated a more powerful and faster character already. Rinse and repeat.

I argue based off facts.

"Marcus" and "Markus" are both varied spelling of the same name. "Ga e" on the other hand isn't actually a word. Learn how to spell already.

No shit "older" doesn't mean "unbeatable", a much younger vampire killed Viktor. Marcus is still more powerful than Viktor and defeated a more powerful Michael. The film > you

You argue based on who you happen to like better. It is known.

Even without his hybrid upgrade Markus would still beat Viktor. Vampires are never more powerful than those who made them unless they get some kind of special upgrade like what Selene did when she drank the blood of the father of all the immortals. With his hybrid upgrade, Markus wins even easier than he otherwise would.


Oh, and Selene was only able to kill Viktor because it was a cheap shot. Anyone who thinks she could've beaten Viktor in a straight-up fight before her upgrade is kidding themselves.

Im going to spell it Marckus from now on, just to keep everyone happy. So there can be no misunderstandings.

LOL. Yeah, that might be a good idea.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Now after being wrong about the spelling and ignorantly saying I was wrong you spell it with a k like me. Do you have a shred of pride ?

Lucian warded it off but acting like someone taking an advantageous attack is cheating is someone who doesn't understand battle. False. Lucian realized it after the fact and realiEd if he widened the opening Viktor could not move. That's fine. Viktor survived and later rose to power. Without sun exploitation he cannot beat him.

He was not trying to kill her. He did not kill her after he beat her. She was taken to trial and judged. Viktor held back and beat her right after she announced her abomination. Viktor won the encounter. His words show he was trying to,lure out Lucian and only after she announces this does her fate change. I backed my case. You didn't.

False. It didn't affect him at all so it wasn't foolish. At no point was tanis responsible for anything negatively happening to Viktor. Quit saying dumb things.


He was asleep.





He awoke and changed the game. Kraven and Lucian shit bricks when Viktor was awakened.

Markus chose Viktor because he was an excellent strategist and planner. He loved for over a thousand years because he was so excellent. He supplanted Markus and I prisoner his brother. Markus was unable to save his brother while Viktor lived. Masterful.



You rely on wiki while I actually watch the movies. You're an idiot. And continue to spell it the correct way after I mocked you over it.

Post ANY narration or monologue from Viktor that says he threw the fight and wasn't trying to kill her. If not, we'll just go ahead and go with what we see on screen... What is that you ask? That was him shown swinging his sword at her with the intent of killing or maiming her. You don't swing you sword at somebody just for kicks you moron. He wasn't trying to lure Lucian back.. HE WAS ALREADY BACK. Viktor had already lured him back to get her which is who they ended up fighting you clown. Do you even watch the movies you debate? Point is, she disarmed him EASILY and owned him easily. Nothing new for Viktor

Wrong again, he LUCKILY didn't have his lies exposed before his death. That didn't change the fact that it was piss poor planning and strategy on his part to keep him alive to begin with. Just like it wasn't a good idea to keep Selene alive after killing her family. Especially knowing that Selene knew where William's prison was. He's a moron, and makes these simple errors in judgment time after time

So you think he should be given credit for putting a moron in charge who successfully had a plan to kill him and he could do nothing about it? That is buffoonery of the highest order. You put somebody who's incompetent in charge, who you can't tell is loyal to you after hundreds and hundreds of years... and this impresses you? LOL

Originally posted by Star428
Even without his hybrid upgrade Markus would still beat Viktor. Vampires are never more powerful than those who made them unless they get some kind of special upgrade like what Selene did when she drank the blood of the father of all the immortals. With his hybrid upgrade, Markus wins even easier than he otherwise would.


Oh, and Selene was only able to kill Viktor because it was a cheap shot. Anyone who thinks she could've beaten Viktor in a straight-up fight before her upgrade is kidding themselves.

It's not cheap to use a sword when somebody else has no weapon? It's not cheap to have your buddies shoot up somebody mid fight? I beg to differ. Viktor started the cheap tactics.. Selene finished it

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Post ANY narration or monologue from Viktor that says he threw the fight and wasn't trying to kill her. If not, we'll just go ahead and go with what we see on screen... What is that you ask? That was him shown swinging his sword at her with the intent of killing or maiming her. You don't swing you sword at somebody just for kicks you moron. He wasn't trying to lure Lucian back.. HE WAS ALREADY BACK. Viktor had already lured him back to get her which is who they ended up fighting you clown. Do you even watch the movies you debate? Point is, she disarmed him EASILY and owned him easily. Nothing new for Viktor

Wrong again, he LUCKILY didn't have his lies exposed before his death. That didn't change the fact that it was piss poor planning and strategy on his part to keep him alive to begin with. Just like it wasn't a good idea to keep Selene alive after killing her family. Especially knowing that Selene knew where William's prison was. He's a moron, and makes these simple errors in judgment time after time

So you think he should be given credit for putting a moron in charge who successfully had a plan to kill him and he could do nothing about it? That is buffoonery of the highest order. You put somebody who's incompetent in charge, who you can't tell is loyal to you after hundreds and hundreds of years... and this impresses you? LOL Watch the film again. His intention was quite clear. He was saying, how dare you. He defended himself and was shocked but at no point did he try to kill her. He then ended the fight as soon as he heard of her transgression. You aren't smart enough to understand or comprehend a scene. Shame .

No, he was not. He took him out of the situation and he was fine. Quit speculating. Deal in facts not your fantasies.

He was betrayed. Vader betrayed Palpatine and killed him too. Betrayal happens. These guys are not all knowing. Viktor stopped his treacherous actions before his plan was carried out. Palpatine did not stop Anakin from killing him despite him torturing his own son in front of him.



Again, Viktor held Markus in check for over 1,000 years. Can you say ***** ?

Originally posted by Star428
Even without his hybrid upgrade Markus would still beat Viktor. Vampires are never more powerful than those who made them unless they get some kind of special upgrade like what Selene did when she drank the blood of the father of all the immortals. With his hybrid upgrade, Markus wins even easier than he otherwise would.

I agree he should be more powerful then Viktor, but the problem is we have no real feats of him in vampire form. Just like Alexander should of been stronger then them all, and yet we didn't actually see him do anything and we're bound by what we see.



Given the amount Viktor outclassed her by she should of needed more then just a sword in order to even defeat him. They could of at least had her kill him by tricking him into thinking she was loyal to him and then with his back turned she chops his face off. But no..that isn't what happened, he was quite ready to fight her and just kinda..died.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Leverage, Selena's involvement and the intention of the scene. You can ignore the intention all you want but that doesn't affect my correct assessment of the scene.

Give an example. What was the intention of the scene? Please explain.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch the film again. His intention was quite clear. He was saying, how dare you. He defended himself and was shocked but at no point did he try to kill her. He then ended the fight as soon as he heard of her transgression. You aren't smart enough to understand or comprehend a scene. Shame .

No, he was not. He took him out of the situation and he was fine. Quit speculating. Deal in facts not your fantasies.

He was betrayed. Vader betrayed Palpatine and killed him too. Betrayal happens. These guys are not all knowing. Viktor stopped his treacherous actions before his plan was carried out. Palpatine did not stop Anakin from killing him despite him torturing his own son in front of him.



Again, Viktor held Markus in check for over 1,000 years. Can you say ***** ?

Wrong again. So you have no proof then? I'll accept your concession on this point. I don't care if you wanna speculate that eh wasn't trying to kill her and was just pretending to fight. He states no such thing, in fact, his actions directly contradict said theory. The reality is he was swinging his sword at her to kill her or hurt her. Period. You don't swing your sword at people you're trying to lose to. She disarmed him easily and defeated him. You claim he beat her... he did no such thing. he only gained the advantage because she was distracted and looking away at Lucian being captured. Pitiful swordsman ship by him. Then again, that's par for the course with this guy. Lucian beat him in sword combat. Shit, Viktor couldn't even land a sword struck on an unarmed Michael . Pitiful

His secrets and plan ended being exposed by him, so it was an epic failure on his part. If somebody dies but was withholding secrets for a very long time that he was actually a drug dealer. Do you think he'd want that to come out even after he's dead? People don't generally ever want their lies and betrayal exposed. Viktor would be no different. Horrible judgment on his part

He didn't do a think to Kraven... It was the most powerful vampire MarCus who had to deal with him and end him. He had to clean up the mess Viktor couldn't take care of. You act like Viktor foiled his plan. He didn't. He didn't have the slightest clue about the plan. He put somebody in charge that is a buffoon and a traitor and concocted a plan to kill him that was going to work. Luckily, Selene notice Raz trying to capture Michael... started investigating.. figured things out FOR Viktor who was too incompetent to figure it out himself. Viktor didn't do a thing to stop Kraven... if it wasn't for Selene.. he'd be dead with another example of piss poor judgment.

MarCus was only retrained, not by Viktor's being more powerful, but because of all the death dealer loyal to him. That is how he was somewhat able to control the situation. In no way was MarCus scared of Viktor or the least bit concerned about him if they fought. He was concerned that him and ameila and all the death dealers were against him. Plus, as stated in the movie he feared for them killing William so he did as Viktor wanted. All of that is the reason why, NONE of which is because Viktor is more powerful or MarCus thought Viktor could beat him. Nothing in the least like that.

Originally posted by Kotor3
What was the intention of the scene? Please explain. Viktor was about to kill him hence why Selene needed to intervene.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wrong again. So you have no proof then? I'll accept your concession on this point. I don't care if you wanna speculate that eh wasn't trying to kill her and was just pretending to fight. He states no such thing, in fact, his actions directly contradict said theory. The reality is he was swinging his sword at her to kill her or hurt her. Period. You don't swing your sword at people you're trying to lose to. She disarmed him easily and defeated him. You claim he beat her... he did no such thing. he only gained the advantage because she was distracted and looking away at Lucian being captured. Pitiful swordsman ship by him. Then again, that's par for the course with this guy. Lucian beat him in sword combat. Shit, Viktor couldn't even land a sword struck on an unarmed Michael . Pitiful

His secrets and plan ended being exposed by him, so it was an epic failure on his part. If somebody dies but was withholding secrets for a very long time that he was actually a drug dealer. Do you think he'd want that to come out even after he's dead? People don't generally ever want their lies and betrayal exposed. Viktor would be no different. Horrible judgment on his part

He didn't do a think to Kraven... It was the most powerful vampire MarCus who had to deal with him and end him. He had to clean up the mess Viktor couldn't take care of. You act like Viktor foiled his plan. He didn't. He didn't have the slightest clue about the plan. He put somebody in charge that is a buffoon and a traitor and concocted a plan to kill him that was going to work. Luckily, Selene notice Raz trying to capture Michael... started investigating.. figured things out FOR Viktor who was too incompetent to figure it out himself. Viktor didn't do a thing to stop Kraven... if it wasn't for Selene.. he'd be dead with another example of piss poor judgment.

MarCus was only retrained, not by Viktor's being more powerful, but because of all the death dealer loyal to him. That is how he was somewhat able to control the situation. In no way was MarCus scared of Viktor or the least bit concerned about him if they fought. He was concerned that him and ameila and all the death dealers were against him. Plus, as stated in the movie he feared for them killing William so he did as Viktor wanted. All of that is the reason why, NONE of which is because Viktor is more powerful or MarCus thought Viktor could beat him. Nothing in the least like that.

No, since he has her dead to rights and still didn't kill her. He himself took a sword through the mouth basically and walked away. Even had he hit her she's a vampire and can survive. He did want to put her to trial afterwards. Quit going against the words and the intention of a father trying to trap his unwelcome boyfriend. Michael is faster and stronger. He still got the better of him with his bare hands so who cares.


It never came to light while he lived. Who cares ?

Kraven fled from Viktor. He knew not to come after him while he went after the hybrid. Markus died not too long after his release either. Who cares ?


So you agree Viktor held him in check due to his cunning and keeping him as his ***** despite exiling and lying to him about his brother. Perfect. While Vikgor loved Markus was always his ***** despite being the father of the race. Rather embrasssing.

Viktor wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktor was about to kill him hence why Selene needed to intervene. We already established that is your interpretation of the scene. Selene had already intervened because Viktor had use the assistant of his men to shoot at Micheal.

Selene takes out Viktor men, Viktor hits Selene and Selene returns the favor by removing part of Viktor's head and face.

So Selene saw an opportunity to kill Viktor and took it.

Originally posted by Kotor3
We already established that is your interpretation of the scene. Selene had already intervened because Viktor had use the assistant of his men to shoot at Micheal.

Selene takes out Viktor men, Viktor hits Selene and Selene returns the favor by removing part of Viktor's head and face.

So Selene saw an opportunity to kill Viktor and took it. So you believe Michael was not in harms way and Viktor was simply being foolish saying he'd now kill him ? Oh brother.

To say she was not protecting her bf in that scene is asinine.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you believe Michael was not in harms way and Viktor was simply being foolish saying he'd now kill him ? Oh brother.

To say she was not protecting her bf in that scene is asinine. He was in a choke hold. Please you act as if Viktor had him pin down ready for a death blow. What Marcus did to Michael was a death blow.

No one cares what prideful Viktor felt. As stated Selene was already in the fight at this point and saw an opportunity and took it.

If Viktor really had Michael at his mercy and wasn't using all of his might and concentration to maintain his choke hold, he would not have been caught off guard like he was and died.

Originally posted by Kotor3
He was in a choke hold. Please you act as if Viktor had him pin down ready for a death blow. What Marcus did to Michael was a death blow.

No one cares what prideful Viktor felt. As stated Selene was already in the fight at this point and saw an opportunity and took it.

If Viktor really had Michael at his mercy and wasn't using all of his might and concentration to maintain his choke hold, he would not have been caught off guard like he was and died. He was going to kill him. He had all the leverage and the strength to kill him.

She used the time when his attention was diverted. She took on Markus and straight up defeated him.

False. He used his senses to break free and try to react to the sneak attack. Quit pretending, guy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, since he has her dead to rights and still didn't kill her. He himself took a sword through the mouth basically and walked away. Even had he hit her she's a vampire and can survive. He did want to put her to trial afterwards. Quit going against the words and the intention of a father trying to trap his unwelcome boyfriend. Michael is faster and stronger. He still got the better of him with his bare hands so who cares.


It never came to light while he lived. Who cares ?

Kraven fled from Viktor. He knew not to come after him while he went after the hybrid. Markus died not too long after his release either. Who cares ?


So you agree Viktor held him in check due to his cunning and keeping him as his ***** despite exiling and lying to him about his brother. Perfect. While Vikgor loved Markus was always his ***** despite being the father of the race. Rather embrasssing.

Viktor wins.

Concession accepted on this point. He was shown striking at her in an attempt to kill her or maim her. He failed. Even if we take your theory at face value (most don't) He was still trying to subdue her and capture her... guess what.. he failed and was disarmed EASILY for his troubles. No matter how you look at it he was treated like a feeb by his own daughter

Doesn't matter if it never came out while he was alive. It was piss poor judgment to even keep him alive. Par for he course for this buffoon.

You're right, the more powerful MarCus had to do something that Viktor himself couldn't do. He had to clean up the mess of the buffoon Viktor caused by putting Kraven in charge. Do you know how crappy it looks for somebody not be able to figure out for HUNDREDS AND HUDTREDS of years that someone they put in control is actually a moron? It's just another example of Viktor's piss poor judgment that we see time and time again.

It wasn't a cheapshot at all. Viktor had already smacked Selene around. He already witness Selene killing death dealers to protect Michael. Another cheap tactic. In any event, he by that point Selene was no longer on his side and chose Michael Yet, like the moron he is, he foolishly didn't account for her properly and easily killed.

Again, Viktor with a sword can't even kill Michael who was unarmed. Pitiful

The reality is, somebody you call cunning, is one of the biggest buffoons in the series

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was going to kill him. He had all the leverage and the strength to kill him.

She used the time when his attention was diverted. She took on Markus and straight up defeated him.

False. He used his senses to break free and try to react to the sneak attack. Quit pretending, guy. Once again your interpretation with no proof. Selene lost to Marcus twice before winning. You are right he used his senses to react but not in enough time since he had to divert all of his strength and concentration to the choke hold.

Please tell me how Viktor was going to kill Micheal. He didn't have his sword and as we have already seen in Michael's battle with Marcus a blow to his heart will not kill him.

Viktor got defeated by his daughter, Marcus would own Viktor daughter. Marcus wins 10/10.

Just because Viktor had leverage over Markus, in threatening William if he didn't conform (as stated by a previous poster), doesn't mean in a fight he would win. Context as stated previously. I just watched the first two Underworlds again, and Markus was superior. Even with Markus "killing" Michael, I don't/didn't see Viktor's damage output as greater. I also don't see Viktor being able to kill him, especially if Michael doesn't fight like an idiot.

i like this guy, quan will try to reach him and convert... we cannot have this.

robtard is a good mentor

but that aside he does form his arguments for a character well

Markus kills him. Not even close.

And lol @ Viktor's "strategies". Every onscreen battle under his command was an unmitigated failure.

It's true, most of the decision he's made and most of his one v one battles he's gotten owned. Easily at times

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Markus kills him. Not even close.

And lol @ Viktor's "strategies". Every onscreen battle under his command was an unmitigated failure. Liar. He was the one who commanded William be brought under control. He also got the better of Michael. He also captured Lucian when he set out to. Quit lying.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Concession accepted on this point. He was shown striking at her in an attempt to kill her or maim her. He failed. Even if we take your theory at face value (most don't) He was still trying to subdue her and capture her... guess what.. he failed and was disarmed EASILY for his troubles. No matter how you look at it he was treated like a feeb by his own daughter

Doesn't matter if it never came out while he was alive. It was piss poor judgment to even keep him alive. Par for he course for this buffoon.

You're right, the more powerful MarCus had to do something that Viktor himself couldn't do. He had to clean up the mess of the buffoon Viktor caused by putting Kraven in charge. Do you know how crappy it looks for somebody not be able to figure out for HUNDREDS AND HUDTREDS of years that someone they put in control is actually a moron? It's just another example of Viktor's piss poor judgment that we see time and time again.

It wasn't a cheapshot at all. Viktor had already smacked Selene around. He already witness Selene killing death dealers to protect Michael. Another cheap tactic. In any event, he by that point Selene was no longer on his side and chose Michael Yet, like the moron he is, he foolishly didn't account for her properly and easily killed.

Again, Viktor with a sword can't even kill Michael who was unarmed. Pitiful

The reality is, somebody you call cunning, is one of the biggest buffoons in the series You denying the words isn't proof and is only your opinion.

It didn't affect him. Your speculation and opinion isn't proof.

Markus ran wild because Viktor was dead. No one else was instrumental as the leader and the entire vampire coven was at stake due to Viktor's death.

Striking while you have a stronger and faster hybrid in a headlock is a cheapshot. Quit denying the obvious.


Michael is faster and stronger. Viktor still prevailed. Amazing.

The guy who lead the coven through multiple centuries and kept the vampires fate a secret was the greatest leader. After he died their secrecy was gone. He was the greatest leader of the series.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Once again your interpretation with no proof. Selene lost to Marcus twice before winning. You are right he used his senses to react but not in enough time since he had to divert all of his strength and concentration to the choke hold.

Please tell me how Viktor was going to kill Micheal. He didn't have his sword and as we have already seen in Michael's battle with Marcus a blow to his heart will not kill him. To despite Markus winning he was unabled to kill her. Thanks for admitting this.

Break his neck.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Liar. He was the one who commanded William be brought under control. He also got the better of Michael. He also captured Lucian when he set out to. Quit lying.

Please. Lucian was born into slavery, Viktor didn't capture shit. How is saying that William needed to be contained any kind of brilliant move? He was an insane monster turning everyone in sight into insane monsters.

He got his skull cut in half by Selene while he was fighting new born Michael... Great feat bro.

Originally posted by quanchi112
To despite Markus winning he was unabled to kill her. Thanks for admitting this.

Break his neck. It clear that you saw a different movie. Marcus had no desire to kill her. He only wanted information. Unable to and deciding not to is different. Hope you can understand that concept.

So he was going to break Michael's neck. Sure took him along time to make the decision to do so. Lets say Viktor broke Michael's neck, you are saying that Michael would have died when he survived a direct blow to his heart?

Viktor had no chance. He needed help from his men and had his sword against an unarmed new to his powers Michael. Marcus rapes Viktor.

Idk if it was mentioned already, but Markus turned Victor so he could use Victor's army to get William under control. Victor wasn't more powerful than Markus in terms of physical abilities, but Victor had a kingdom behind him that Markus needed, so he was somewhat under Victor's command.

As for 1v1 fight, I'd give it to Markus more times than not.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Please. Lucian was born into slavery, Viktor didn't capture shit. How is saying that William needed to be contained any kind of brilliant move? He was an insane monster turning everyone in sight into insane monsters.

He got his skull cut in half by Selene while he was fighting new born Michael... Great feat bro. Lucian also had access to many shortening lycans. Victor did capture Lucian after he escaped. Lucian let out that bellow cry after he was about to be killed and hillbilly lycans came from the forest.


Due to his focus being elsewhere. Context, bro.

Originally posted by Kotor3
It clear that you saw a different movie. Marcus had no desire to kill her. He only wanted information. Unable to and deciding not to is different. Hope you can understand that concept.

So he was going to break Michael's neck. Sure took him along time to make the decision to do so. Lets say Viktor broke Michael's neck, you are saying that Michael would have died when he survived a direct blow to his heart?

Viktor had no chance. He needed help from his men and had his sword against an unarmed new to his powers Michael. Marcus rapes Viktor. Well, it kind of cost him. He killed others he got information from.

Michael didn't die so of course he was not going to do it quickly. Yes, he'd die just like the lycan died when he snapped his neck.

False. Viktor came out on top despite the physical advantages Michael held. Viktor kills him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
hillbilly lycans

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well, it kind of cost him. He killed others he got information from.

Michael didn't die so of course he was not going to do it quickly. Yes, he'd die just like the lycan died when he snapped his neck.

False. Viktor came out on top despite the physical advantages Michael held. Viktor kills him. Marcus could see that the others were corrupt and could not be trusted whereas Selene was not corrupt and killed Viktor whom Marcus hated. That is why he did not kill her.

Michael is a hybrid whose abilities are unknown and can be unlimited as stated in the movie. So you think someone who survived a direct blow to his heart is going to die from a broken neck? People in real life have survived broken necks not direct blows to the heart.

Viktor came out in top, meaning he had Michael in a choke hold. If that is what you view as on top then I can't help you there.

Viktor loses. Marcus has superior strength, speed, and hand to hand combat skill.

If Viktor had snapped Michael's neck (which I'm pretty sure would've happened if not for Selene's sneak attack) then it would've at least put him down temporarily even if it had not permanently killed him which still would've been counted as a win for Viktor according to forum rules.


Markus still wins this fight though even without his hybrid upgrade.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Liar. He was the one who commanded William be brought under control. He also got the better of Michael. He also captured Lucian when he set out to. Quit lying.

wow two feats out of a bunch of shite

he schemed and conived to markus to have william put away safely

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
wow two feats out of a bunch of shite

he schemed and conived to markus to have william put away safely Two undeniable feats. Cry more.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Marcus could see that the others were corrupt and could not be trusted whereas Selene was not corrupt and killed Viktor whom Marcus hated. That is why he did not kill her.

Michael is a hybrid whose abilities are unknown and can be unlimited as stated in the movie. So you think someone who survived a direct blow to his heart is going to die from a broken neck? People in real life have survived broken necks not direct blows to the heart.

Viktor came out in top, meaning he had Michael in a choke hold. If that is what you view as on top then I can't help you there.

Viktor loses. Marcus has superior strength, speed, and hand to hand combat skill. So despite her trying to kill him he just said ok. Give me a break.

He was stated as being stronger and faster. Yes, due to the super strength Viktor is going to break that neck with.

The scene was clear he was going to die. Viktor even said so.

Viktor is more cunning and uses that to win against a physically superior opponent like Michael.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Two undeniable feats. Cry more.

suck more

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
suck more Whose sock are you ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So despite her trying to kill him he just said ok. Give me a break.

He was stated as being stronger and faster. Yes, due to the super strength Viktor is going to break that neck with.

The scene was clear he was going to die. Viktor even said so.

Viktor is more cunning and uses that to win against a physically superior opponent like Michael. You ignore a lot context and parts of the movie to try to make your statements correct. Selene ran from Marcus the first two times. She had not idea why he was chasing. She thought it was because see kill Viktor. She only went to kill him once she was given the power to do so.

So what if he breaks his neck. The question is how does that prove Michael would have died? He did not die after being tab directly through the heart.

Yes the scene was clear Viktor felt he was going to win because he had no idea as to what he was going against. The scene only showed what Viktor felt not what was going to happen.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You denying the words isn't proof and is only your opinion.

It didn't affect him. Your speculation and opinion isn't proof.

Markus ran wild because Viktor was dead. No one else was instrumental as the leader and the entire vampire coven was at stake due to Viktor's death.

Striking while you have a stronger and faster hybrid in a headlock is a cheapshot. Quit denying the obvious.


Michael is faster and stronger. Viktor still prevailed. Amazing.

The guy who lead the coven through multiple centuries and kept the vampires fate a secret was the greatest leader. After he died their secrecy was gone. He was the greatest leader of the series.

So you concede he was treated like a feeb by his daughter then? Even if accept he wasn't trying to kill or hurt her (we don't) he was still trying to subdue her. Guess what? He got disarmed like the buffoon he is.

Poor choice by him in a long ling of poor choice from a tactically moronic guy

No MarCus had to clean up the mess that Viktor incompetence caused. He left Tanan alive... he put Kraven in charge.. he protected Selene.. keep her alive (even though she had valuable information and a grudge against Viktor if the truth came out.. which is did). Yes, he had to deal with all the buffoonery Viktor left

Wrong again, he should've been prepared for what Selene would do She was already showing a pattern of protecting Michael. Even Kraven could deduce she was falling for him. Then once the truth came out... she further clarified her position by killing the death dealers for Michael. She even engaged Viktor trying to protect Michael. Viktor should've been well aware she was no longer on his side and minded his surroundings. Guess what? Like the incompetent buffoon he is, he didn't

No Viktor couldn't even beat Michael with help and a weapon. Pitiful display

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So you concede he was treated like a feeb by his daughter then? Even if accept he wasn't trying to kill or hurt her (we don't) he was still trying to subdue her. Guess what? He got disarmed like the buffoon he is.

Poor choice by him in a long ling of poor choice from a tactically moronic guy

No MarCus had to clean up the mess that Viktor incompetence caused. He left Tanan alive... he put Kraven in charge.. he protected Selene.. keep her alive (even though she had valuable information and a grudge against Viktor if the truth came out.. which is did). Yes, he had to deal with all the buffoonery Viktor left

Wrong again, he should've been prepared for what Selene would do She was already showing a pattern of protecting Michael. Even Kraven could deduce she was falling for him. Then once the truth came out... she further clarified her position by killing the death dealers for Michael. She even engaged Viktor trying to protect Michael. Viktor should've been well aware she was no longer on his side and minded his surroundings. Guess what? Like the incompetent buffoon he is, he didn't

No Viktor couldn't even beat Michael with help and a weapon. Pitiful display Read my responses. He beat his daughter when he found out she was a whore. Viktor won.

He led the vampires as a dominant coven for over a thousand years. Great leader, Abe.

Kraven was already known by Viktor to be a traitor. Kraven was no real threat. Markus killed him. Who cares.

He had to kill Michael first, dummy. Watch the scene.

Viktor was about to kill him despite an edge in speed and strength.

Incorrect, in direct sword combat when he tried to subdue her.. she beat him and easily. As easily as a feeb might get beaten. The only way he was able to subdue her was when her attention was on Lucian being captured. Prior to that, she had a sword at his throat and disarmed him. Pitiful display by him

Doesn't matter, poor planning on his point. Just a long line of poor planning on his part.

he didnt' figure out he was a traitor. Selene did. He was totally unaware that eh was there sleeping while Kraven was hatching a plan to easily kill him. He's a buffoon and didn't even realize he placed a moron in charge who was going to kill him

Viktor couldn't even beat Michael with help and a weapon. nothing exciting about that. Then, he further looks like a buffoon AGAIN not recognizing that Selene is no longer on his side and acting accordingly

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Incorrect, in direct sword combat when he tried to subdue her.. she beat him and easily. As easily as a feeb might get beaten. The only way he was able to subdue her was when her attention was on Lucian being captured. Prior to that, she had a sword at his throat and disarmed him. Pitiful display by him

Doesn't matter, poor planning on his point. Just a long line of poor planning on his part.

he didnt' figure out he was a traitor. Selene did. He was totally unaware that eh was there sleeping while Kraven was hatching a plan to easily kill him. He's a buffoon and didn't even realize he placed a moron in charge who was going to kill him

Viktor couldn't even beat Michael with help and a weapon. nothing exciting about that. Then, he further looks like a buffoon AGAIN not recognizing that Selene is no longer on his side and acting accordingly She did not beat him. He ended the fight. That's winning. No one had to help him. Once he found out the truth it was game over.

You saying facts don't matter is proof you're a man child. You live in your own world where bears aren't mainly and long faces aren't routinely mocked.

He was asleep so he determined it after the evidence was presented. He did figure out what she brought to his attention.

He had him beat without a weapon so who cares. Michael is faster and stronger. To beat someone like that is an amazing tactical display in combat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
She did not beat him. He ended the fight. That's winning. No one had to help him. Once he found out the truth it was game over.

You saying facts don't matter is proof you're a man child. You live in your own world where bears aren't mainly and long faces aren't routinely mocked.

He was asleep so he determined it after the evidence was presented. He did figure out what she brought to his attention.

He had him beat without a weapon so who cares. Michael is faster and stronger. To beat someone like that is an amazing tactical display in combat.

Wrong again and this shows your hypocrisy like usual. IF she didn't defeat him... than he never beat Michael. Michael is alive and just fine after their fight. So even though Viktor was in an advantageous position.. doesn't mean he won. If you say Viktor did win that fight.. then he also lost to his daughter. She was in an advantageous position by disarming her father and holding a sword to him. The ONLY reason he was able to escape said position was because she became distracted with Lucian being captured

No he's a buffoon.. He put somebody in charge that was a total moron and came up with a plan to kill Viktor like a feeb. That is how unprepared Viktor was and how idiotic he was to not even have the slightest clue Kraven was a liar.

he didn't beat him... according to your logic the only person defeated in that scene was Viktor with his head sliced in two. Point is, even with help and a weapon against an unarmed noob hybrid he still couldn't defeat Michael. Sad

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wrong again and this shows your hypocrisy like usual. IF she didn't defeat him... than he never beat Michael. Michael is alive and just fine after their fight. So even though Viktor was in an advantageous position.. doesn't mean he won. If you say Viktor did win that fight.. then he also lost to his daughter. She was in an advantageous position by disarming her father and holding a sword to him. The ONLY reason he was able to escape said position was because she became distracted with Lucian being captured

No he's a buffoon.. He put somebody in charge that was a total moron and came up with a plan to kill Viktor like a feeb. That is how unprepared Viktor was and how idiotic he was to not even have the slightest clue Kraven was a liar.

he didn't beat him... according to your logic the only person defeated in that scene was Viktor with his head sliced in two. Point is, even with help and a weapon against an unarmed noob hybrid he still couldn't defeat Michael. Sad False. Viktor defeated her on his own. Selene got involved because she needed to intervene. Read what I say not what you think I say.

The guy who lived for over a thousand years in power was not an idiot. He undermined Markus because he was the most cunning of the vampires and the brains behind it all.

Viktor had Michael dead to rights before another charwcter needed to intervene to save him.

Facts.

No he didn't defeat her on his own. She was concerned for her lover and father of her child being captured and looked away from Viktor to see what was going on. Only then was he able to gain the advantage. Before that in the direct one v one fight he was disarmed like a feeb.

Good, glad you admit his daughter also had an advantageous position like Viktor had with Michael

No he wasn't, he was the reason behind the covenant failing. he allowed Tanan to live which then exposed his lies and deceit... where William was... it led Selene to Alexander... Which then led Selene to drink his blood and end up killing the only elder left. Which further weakened the coven... exposed them to humans who then went on to exterminate many of them. All of this because of Viktor piss poor decision making and perception. He ultimately led the coven to its demise, so he's not a good planner and tactician at all.

I just watch the scene again between Viktor and Michael. Michael had no former training in any type of art of fighting whereas Viktor was a warrior. Yet Michael who just inherited his new powers disarmed Viktor twice.

I believe the Michael that fought Marcus would rape Viktor and Marcus handle Michael quite handily.

With Marcus hand to hand skills Viktor would get handled quite easily.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I just watch the scene again between Viktor and Michael. Michael had no former training in any type of art of fighting whereas Viktor was a warrior. Yet Michael who just inherited his new powers disarmed Viktor twice.

I believe the Michael that fought Marcus would rape Viktor and Marcus handle Michael quite handily.

With Marcus hand to hand skills Viktor would get handled quite easily. He was faster and stronger. Superman didn't have any formal training in man of steel and easily broke Zod's neck who was trained all his life. Superman was not stronger or faster and they even had the same abilities. Your logic failed. Viktor still bested him despite the physical advantages.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No he didn't defeat her on his own. She was concerned for her lover and father of her child being captured and looked away from Viktor to see what was going on. Only then was he able to gain the advantage. Before that in the direct one v one fight he was disarmed like a feeb.

Good, glad you admit his daughter also had an advantageous position like Viktor had with Michael

No he wasn't, he was the reason behind the covenant failing. he allowed Tanan to live which then exposed his lies and deceit... where William was... it led Selene to Alexander... Which then led Selene to drink his blood and end up killing the only elder left. Which further weakened the coven... exposed them to humans who then went on to exterminate many of them. All of this because of Viktor piss poor decision making and perception. He ultimately led the coven to its demise, so he's not a good planner and tactician at all. Viktot needed no one else's help and she had him dead to rights. He ended it. Who cares if he was disarmed ? He came out on top in both situations.

Viktor got himself out of it after he held back. He quit holding back and ended the conflict. Undeniable. Listen to the dialogue, dummy.

Without Viktor the coven was beaten and vampires were discovered. Markus was sloppy and ended up dying very quickly. Despite being the father of the species he was viktor's *****.

Shame.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Viktot needed no one else's help and she had him dead to rights. He ended it. Who cares if he was disarmed ? He came out on top in both situations.

Viktor got himself out of it after he held back. He quit holding back and ended the conflict. Undeniable. Listen to the dialogue, dummy.

Without Viktor the coven was beaten and vampires were discovered. Markus was sloppy and ended up dying very quickly. Despite being the father of the species he was viktor's *****.

Shame.

Nope, did you even watch the movie? He only gained the advantage when she turned her attention away from him. When they were both in direct combat and him trying to subdue her.. he got disarmed and easily beaten like a feeb. By his own daughter no less. Pitiful display of skills

Nope, Viktor piss poor decision LEAD to the Coven being destroyed. He first made the piss poor decision to try and control Lucian, this lead to a heat battle that lasted centuries and cost many vampires their lives. He further continues his buffoonery by putting Kraven in charge who further proceeds to destroy to Coven. Viktor didn't even realize this for hundreds and hundreds of years. Viktor let Tanan alive (big mistake) which further exposed his lies and deceit. He then lead them to William and where Alexander was. This eventually lead to the last elder being killed. This lead to humans finding out about them and killing them off. All because Viktor left Tanan alive which was piss poor judgment on his part. Viktor is the utmost responsible for destroying the Coven. Pitiful

marCus stomps him with relative ease

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Nope, did you even watch the movie? He only gained the advantage when she turned her attention away from him. When they were both in direct combat and him trying to subdue her.. he got disarmed and easily beaten like a feeb. By his own daughter no less. Pitiful display of skills

Nope, Viktor piss poor decision LEAD to the Coven being destroyed. He first made the piss poor decision to try and control Lucian, this lead to a heat battle that lasted centuries and cost many vampires their lives. He further continues his buffoonery by putting Kraven in charge who further proceeds to destroy to Coven. Viktor didn't even realize this for hundreds and hundreds of years. Viktor let Tanan alive (big mistake) which further exposed his lies and deceit. He then lead them to William and where Alexander was. This eventually lead to the last elder being killed. This lead to humans finding out about them and killing them off. All because Viktor left Tanan alive which was piss poor judgment on his part. Viktor is the utmost responsible for destroying the Coven. Pitiful

marCus stomps him with relative ease False. He explained this was not about her and he was going to keep her transgressions in secret until he found out. Then he ended her like a weak feeb.

False. With Viktor alive and in charge it flourished. Shortly after Viktor died and Markus was free to his own machinations he died. The coven was also discovered. Can't argue with facts, Abe.

false, by your own admission he tried to subdue her.. guess what... he was disarmed in direct combat and beaten EASILY. Pitiful display of skills on his part. What a feeb

Wrong again, Viktor's decisions lead to the coven being destroyed. It was his planning or lack there of that lead to all of it. If his lies weren't exposed (thanks to him keeping Tanan alive) than the humans would've never found out about them. Alexander would've never been found. Shoot, he kept Selene who eventually killed him and the last elder once she was amped. Again, all thanks to Viktor. What a buffoon. MarCus easily wins,.

Originally posted by Kotor3


It's no mystery. You just answered your own question: he was able to beat them because he'd had his powers much longer. They had the superior training, he bridged that gap by having all of his powers and having had them for a lot longer. Why is that bad? It makes sense why that might allow someone with no formal training to even the odds.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's no mystery. You just answered your own question: he was able to beat them because he'd had his powers much longer. They had the superior training, he bridged that gap by having all of his powers and having had them for a lot longer. Why is that bad? It makes sense why that might allow someone with no formal training to even the odds. It is bad because Superman did nothing throughout the movie to trained those powers. He didn't even learn how to fly until he face them.

Just like in the Reeve's version they were fully grown so they develop their powers quickly to a point in which they were able to match Superman in strength and speed. Not like Superman who as he grew to adult hood his powers grew also.

Reeve was superior due to the fact that he had training and was a pro at using his powers. Still he had to use his wit to defeat them.

So, no Man of Steel did not really close any gap since they caught with him quite quickly and it became a street fight which ended with a farm boy breaking a soldier's neck.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
false, by your own admission he tried to subdue her.. guess what... he was disarmed in direct combat and beaten EASILY. Pitiful display of skills on his part. What a feeb

Wrong again, Viktor's decisions lead to the coven being destroyed. It was his planning or lack there of that lead to all of it. If his lies weren't exposed (thanks to him keeping Tanan alive) than the humans would've never found out about them. Alexander would've never been found. Shoot, he kept Selene who eventually killed him and the last elder once she was amped. Again, all thanks to Viktor. What a buffoon. MarCus easily wins,. False. He won. Pitiful debating on your end, Abe.

False. Victor was gone and Markus died how many days into his reign ? Victor can't maintain the coven while he's dead and without him it went up very quickly. Over 1,000 years under his watch. How many days did Markus take to **** it up ?

LOL@"Zod wasn't just learning his powers". Did you somehow not notice how he wasn't flying till near the end of the movie? How about when he used his heat vision for the first time? He clearly wasn't in complete control of it.

I just watched Evolution the other day, and Alexander had a conversation with one of the humans in his employ, and they said to him "He's destroying his own coven." To which Alexander says, "It was never his coven." So with that line of thinking, it didn't fall because Marcus was in charge. It fell because he personally destroyed it. His goal was to make a new race of hybrids, and wanted William by his side.

Originally posted by quanchi112
False. He won. Pitiful debating on your end, Abe.

False. Victor was gone and Markus died how many days into his reign ? Victor can't maintain the coven while he's dead and without him it went up very quickly. Over 1,000 years under his watch. How many days did Markus take to **** it up ?



You've been utterly crushed in this debate. Just like you were in the original debate. Nothing to brag about on my part though, you lose almost every debate you're in. You're sentence structure is atrocious and your logic is the worst kind. Don't you get people make fun of you, not because you're an awesome debater, instead it's because you're awful at it. It's okay shorty, you'll beat me one of these days.

Wrong again, she even says "I don't want to defeat you" clearly indicating she's holding back. Guess what, even a holding back Sonja was able to treat her father like a feeb. It's even worse than I originally thought, I know she would be holding back (being her father, but I didnt' know it would be outright confirmed) Point is, he was feeb'd by a holding back Sonja

Wrong again, the reason the coven was destroyed was because of Viktor. You say if Viktor was alive then this wouldn't have happened. Well, that is still his fault. If him dying made things even worse, well maybe he shouldn't have died then dummy? Guess what he did, and left all his lies and deceit to be exposed. The whole downfall of the Coven was directly caused my Viktor and his actions. He was a piss poor leader and a even worse fighter

Originally posted by Kotor3
It is bad because Superman did nothing throughout the movie to trained those powers. He didn't even learn how to fly until he face them.

Just like in the Reeve's version they were fully grown so they develop their powers quickly to a point in which they were able to match Superman in strength and speed. Not like Superman who as he grew to adult hood his powers grew also.

Reeve was superior due to the fact that he had training and was a pro at using his powers. Still he had to use his wit to defeat them.

So, no Man of Steel did not really close any gap since they caught with him quite quickly and it became a street fight which ended with a farm boy breaking a soldier's neck.

He'd still been using the powers for a lot longer. His powers were at stronger levels then most of the other Kryptonians he fought. So it still makes sense that bridges the gap. To say they "caught up with him quickly" is a lie. The only person who ever caught up with him power wise was Zod, who at the end gained his full powerset. NONE of the other Kryptonians gained their full powers, they had some power plus training, which is what allowed them to fight against a guy with more power, but less training.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It was a huge advantage but viktor was strong enough to hurt and kill him. Guys that are physically weaker win fights all the time.

That is one advantage Viktor had but Michael was still faster and stronger. He was a lot faster too based on their portrayals.

It's still a movie and fiction doesn't need to make sense, nerd. I cited an example that proves you wrong. I'm ****ing amazing.

Moron, post the clip where Viktor kills Michael as you just stated

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Moron, post the clip where Viktor kills Michael as you just stated I said he was fast enough to hurt and kill him. I never said he killed him, clod. Understand the meaning of words.

Your gf must like really dumb guys.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You've been utterly crushed in this debate. Just like you were in the original debate. Nothing to brag about on my part though, you lose almost every debate you're in. You're sentence structure is atrocious and your logic is the worst kind. Don't you get people make fun of you, not because you're an awesome debater, instead it's because you're awful at it. It's okay shorty, you'll beat me one of these days.

Wrong again, she even says "I don't want to defeat you" clearly indicating she's holding back. Guess what, even a holding back Sonja was able to treat her father like a feeb. It's even worse than I originally thought, I know she would be holding back (being her father, but I didnt' know it would be outright confirmed) Point is, he was feeb'd by a holding back Sonja

Wrong again, the reason the coven was destroyed was because of Viktor. You say if Viktor was alive then this wouldn't have happened. Well, that is still his fault. If him dying made things even worse, well maybe he shouldn't have died then dummy? Guess what he did, and left all his lies and deceit to be exposed. The whole downfall of the Coven was directly caused my Viktor and his actions. He was a piss poor leader and a even worse fighter "Don't you get people make fun of you." That's your sentence structure on display. I get a little flak because I'm exceptional at getting under people's skin, horse head.

Viktor held back as well. So not just look at her dialogue only and ignore viktor's. Viktor ended the confrontation as soon as he found out she was a whore.

Viktor was dead. Markus died how many days outside of viktor's rule ? The coven prospered under viktor's leadership. After he died it went to shit. Undeniable.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I said he was fast enough to hurt and kill him. I never said he killed him, clod. Understand the meaning of words.

Your gf must like really dumb guys.

is English your first language? I'm serious here. I know logic is something that alludes you, but I'm concerned you can't understand the words you use and what they mean. You said he was strong enough to kill him... Which begs the question... How do you know he's strong enough to kill him when he wasn't able to kill him? He had opportunity to do so and couldn't.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
is English your first language? I'm serious here. I know logic is something that alludes you, but I'm concerned you can't understand the words you use and what they mean. You said he was strong enough to kill him... Which begs the question... How do you know he's strong enough to kill him when he wasn't able to kill him? He had opportunity to do so and couldn't. Selene intervened. So you actually believe if Michael stood there Viktor can't kill him physically ? Forget the feats and the lycan overpowering watch the fight, moron.

Why would Selene intervene if Viktor can't kill him ? You're dumb.

Originally posted by quanchi112
"Don't you get people make fun of you." That's your sentence structure on display. I get a little flak because I'm exceptional at getting under people's skin, horse head.

Viktor held back as well. So not just look at her dialogue only and ignore viktor's. Viktor ended the confrontation as soon as he found out she was a whore.

Viktor was dead. Markus died how many days outside of viktor's rule ? The coven prospered under viktor's leadership. After he died it went to shit. Undeniable.



Nope, in direct combat viktor was treated like a feeb by his daughter. A daughter who was holding back disarmed and had him at her mercy. At no time was he able to defeat her in direct combat. He only gained the advantage once her attention was away from him and on Lucian. Piss poor display of skills by him

It doesn't matter if he was dead. Him dying only made matters worse. You claim it wouldn't have went downhill if he didn't die... well then maybe he shouldn't have got treated like a feeb and died right? The reality is, Viktor decision and judgment lead to the coven being destroyed. It was literally all his doing. I went step by step listing the poor decision and what it lead to. It all lead back to Viktor. He's a buffoon and a poor swordsman