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Goku is healthy. No heart virus.

Both at SSJ.

Yeah, Vegeta was more powerful, but Goku would put up a good fight.

I dont really think the power difference would be that much different. It would be one hell of a close fight.

I agree.

No, Vegeta should beat Goku here pretty solidly. It was implied that SSJ1 Future Trunks was around equal to SSJ1 Goku at that point, and Vegeta was capable of fighting on par with #18, while Trunks broke his sword on his first swing at her.

And Goku matched Trunks' samurai attack with a single finger when they first met...

Originally posted by Reflassshh
And Goku repelled matched Trunks' samurai attack with a single finger when they first met...

Yeah, but they explained in the manga that neither of them were being serious at all, in that fight. It was implied though, that they were mostly even, when being serious.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, Vegeta should beat Goku here pretty solidly. It was implied that SSJ1 Future Trunks was around equal to SSJ1 Goku at that point, and Vegeta was capable of fighting on par with #18, while Trunks broke his sword on his first swing at her. Trunks was also awestruck at how much more powerful those androids were in comparison to the ones from his timeline.

So yeah, it's entirely possible that Vegeta could beat Goku rather solidly here.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yeah, but they explained in the manga that neither of them were being serious at all, in that fight. It was implied though, that they were mostly even, when being serious. Yep, and Gohan also stated their ki's were the same when they both went SSJ.

However, that was also 3 years before they confronted the androids, so it's hard to say how much Goku/Trunks improved over that time with just their normal training on earth. I would assume they were still equalish, though.

Originally posted by Galan007
Trunks was also awestruck at how much more powerful those androids were in comparison to the ones from his timeline.

So yeah, it's entirely possible that Vegeta could beat Goku rather solidly here.

Yep, and Gohan also stated their ki's were the same when they both went SSJ.

However, that was also 3 years before they confronted the androids, so it's hard to say how much Goku/Trunks improved over that time with just their normal training on earth. I would assume they were still equalish, though.

Yeah, I forgot Gohan said that. I knew someone said it, but I didn't mention it because I didn't know exactly when/what was said.

Yeah, but Vegeta was the one doing the most training during those three years. Goku had to train Gohan as well. And also, Goku didn't have much of an upper hand on android 19 in the first place, even before his heart disease started acting up. Vegeta rofl-stomped him, even though he was just toying with him the whole time, to see how strong he was.

Oh yeah, given the intensity of Vegeta's training after the Freeza saga(he trained in upwards of 300x gravity non-stop), I have no doubt that he could have increased his base PL beyond Goku's(whose training was mellow by comparison) during that 3 years. And if Vegeta's base PL was greater, his SSJ PL would be greater by proxy.

Goku had been afflicted by the heart disease before ever fighting 19 so not really a fair measuring stick. But yeah it is likely Vegeta is stronger. Unless the heart disease had somehow made his training yield weaker results but that is as baseless as ya get.

It is strange though. Once Goku gets up he continues to be Vegeta's superior in almost every way. He got more out of the ROAST than Vegeta and he spent less time in there.

That's just protagonist hacks.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
He got more out of the ROAST than Vegeta and he spent less time in there. That was because of how they trained. Vegeta only trained to increase his raw power, which ultimately hindered his stamina. Conversely, Goku trained to increase his stamina, which enabled him to master SSJ, which gleaned him far more raw power.

Of course but I just find it funny that under the same conditions not only does Goku become stronger but grooms a much stronger fighter than himself at the same time.

Fact is, anyone not named Goku or Gohan eventually became irrelevant. Vegeta is just one in a number of those causalities, lol.

Vegeta.

Originally posted by Galan007
Fact is, anyone not named Goku or Gohan eventually became irrelevant. Vegeta is just one in a number of those causalities, lol.

Eh, at least until Buu arc. Then Vegeta surpasses Gohan in terms of narrative importance. By BoG it is obvious who the real second protag is.

I wish Piccolo got to do more. *sigh*

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Eh, at least until Buu arc. Then Vegeta surpasses Gohan in terms of narrative importance. By BoG it is obvious who the real second protag is.

I wish Piccolo got to do more. *sigh* Post-Buu arc, you mean? Because the Buu arc itself is when Gohan went 'Mystic', and because the most powerful unfused character in the series, by far. The last 2 films have seen him dwindle into insignificance, though.

Yeah, Piccolo was so underutilized that it's pathetic.

Originally posted by Galan007
Post-Buu arc, you mean? Because the Buu arc itself is when Gohan went 'Mystic', and because the most powerful unfused character in the series, by far. The last 2 films have seen him dwindle into insignificance, though.

Yeah, Piccolo was so underutilized that it's pathetic.

Nah. Gohan is stronger but for all the build up his character ultimately doesn't do anything noteworthy when going Mystic. Vegeta was weaker but at the same time did way more. There is a narrative reason why Gohan doesn't succeed against Buu but hey.

It makes sense. When he fuses with Kami his character arc is pretty complete. Just wish he could have stayed up there in strength so that the strongest guys wouldn't be all Saiyans.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Nah. Gohan is stronger but for all the build up his character ultimately doesn't do anything noteworthy when going Mystic. Vegeta was weaker but at the same time did way more. There is a narrative reason why Gohan doesn't succeed against Buu but hey.

It makes sense. When he fuses with Kami his character arc is pretty complete. Just wish he could have stayed up there in strength so that the strongest guys wouldn't be all Saiyans. The only thing of value Vegeta did in that arc was lend himself to Potara. Aside from that he just got the crap beat out of him. It was a humiliating time for the good Prince.

He also engineered the whole plan to kill Kid Buu. Granted his plan wasn't the best thought through(lucky the Namekians made Porunga stronger huh?) but it all worked out. And in terms of narrative the Buu Saga is where Vegeta finally completes his development and becomes, probably, the best written of the story.

I've recently reread Dragonball so I'm mostly just enjoying the writing of the manga.

Also good thing Satan was there... Otherwise the whole Genki Dama thing would have failed miserably.

Indeed. Their most pragmatic move would have just been wishing Gohan there to kill Kid Buu. Even Goku points that out. But Vegeta chose the more symbolic method so hey.