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Captain America
Winter Soldier
Black Widow
Falcon

Vs

Arrow
Flash
Firestorm
Canary

Neither team has prep
No bfr
In character
Fight in a city.

Spite City, USA.

Flash solos and obliterates.

In character Bucky and Cap are both of a high enough level that they'd tag Barry. And Bucky wouldn't let him get up.

Falcon solos

Canary solos

Originally posted by KingD19
In character Bucky and Cap are both of a high enough level that they'd tag Barry. And Bucky wouldn't let him get up.

Cap could never tag quicksilver so nah.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Cap could never tag quicksilver so nah.

Lol so?

Barry has been tagged numerous times by people with absolutely no reason for hitting him. And if he's slow enough to get hit by people so far below Cap and Bucky, Cap and Bucky will hit him. Because it's all in character.

Also he's not great with bullets, which Bucky has a lot of.

Originally posted by KingD19
Lol so?

Barry has been tagged numerous times by people with absolutely no reason for hitting him. And if he's slow enough to get hit by people so far below Cap and Bucky, Cap and Bucky will hit him. Because it's all in character.

Also he's not great with bullets, which Bucky has a lot of.

Lol, current Flash can see lightning in slow mow and run fast enough to time travel.

flash solos

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Lol, current Flash can see lightning in slow mow and run fast enough to time travel.

flash solos

Current Flash just got zapped by lightning and and before that was building up speed for 5.3 miles only for Gorilla Grodd to effortlessly catch his punch. Also he couldn't stop a bullet from hitting that shapeshifter.

Those high ends of his are only during super traumatic events where all hope seems lost or he can't afford to fail. Like saving Joe(his surrogate father) from lightning or running so fast he accidentally goes back in time.

Let's not act like he can just pull those stunts off whenever, because he'd have been much more effective if he could.

Flash and Firestorm are a bit too powerful for this fight. As long as Barry doesn't get stupid they should take it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Flash and Firestorm are a bit too powerful for this fight. As long as Barry doesn't get stupid they should take it.

This is in character though. So that's exactly what he'll do. In character he gets beat down and tagged by normal people(normal as in don't move any faster than usual) all the time. So Widow, Cap, and Bucky can all score hits. Plus they can shoot him as he's shown multiple times he's still having trouble against bullets.

And as far as I know, Firestorm isn't bulletproof nor is he faster than bullets. I think any of the three on the team who use guns would try and take out the flaming guy pretty quick.

Originally posted by KingD19
Lol so?

Barry has been tagged numerous times by people with absolutely no reason for hitting him. And if he's slow enough to get hit by people so far below Cap and Bucky, Cap and Bucky will hit him. Because it's all in character.

Also he's not great with bullets, which Bucky has a lot of.

He was hit when he was a noob in the first couple episodes. And he is great with bullets, he caught them. He can easily avoid bullets.

Flash is fast enough to time travel now, Bucky is not hitting him.

Originally posted by KingD19
This is in character though. So that's exactly what he'll do. In character he gets beat down and tagged by normal people(normal as in don't move any faster than usual) all the time. So Widow, Cap, and Bucky can all score hits. Plus they can shoot him as he's shown multiple times he's still having trouble against bullets.

And as far as I know, Firestorm isn't bulletproof nor is he faster than bullets. I think any of the three on the team who use guns would try and take out the flaming guy pretty quick.

LOL at bullets now taking out these guys. Bucky had bullets too and it didn't stop Cap, cut the crap. I guess Batman, Black Widow, Hawkeye and tons of others never fought people with guns. Guns is like the #1 meta's deal with on a daily basis.

Barry solos, Firestorm makes it spite

Originally posted by Impediment
Spite City, USA.

Flash solos and obliterates.
Originally posted by relentless1
Barry solos, Firestorm makes it spite

Seems rational people agree.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
He was hit when he was a noob in the first couple episodes. And he is great with bullets, he caught them. He can easily avoid bullets.

Flash is fast enough to time travel now, Bucky is not hitting him.


He was just getting his ass handed to him a few episodes ago by Gorilla Grodd who has no super speed to his name, yet was blocking every hit Barry threw his way, even the Mach Speed punch where he built up speed for 5.3 miles.

He's been shot in the back of the neck with a bullet(barely), and just recently could only stop 2 of the 3 bullets Joe shot at that shapeshifter. If he could only stop 2 rounds from a pistol, what's he going to do against automatic weaponry from at least two different people?

Don't act like Barry can just go back in time willy nilly. He did it once, technically twice, and it was an accident. He was pushing himself as fast as he possibly could go because the entire city would have been wiped out by Weather Wizard's tsunami if he didn't. He's never gotten close to that speed since. You watch the show right?

I still dont see how they take out Falcon barker
In fact Falcon kills his team as well.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
LOL at bullets now taking out these guys. Bucky had bullets too and it didn't stop Cap, cut the crap. I guess Batman, Black Widow, Hawkeye and tons of others never fought people with guns. Guns is like the #1 meta's deal with on a daily basis.

You cut the crap. How about you watch the show and tell me honestly you think Barry can not only perform at the levels you have him at constantly(even though it's a very rare thing), but won't job like he always does because this is in character.

Originally posted by KingD19
You cut the crap. How about you watch the show and tell me honestly you think Barry can not only perform at the levels you have him at constantly(even though it's a very rare thing), but won't job like he always does because this is in character.

Yes yes, more "Watch the Show"

Anyways, Firestorm and Flash destroy them.

Originally posted by KingD19
He was just getting his ass handed to him a few episodes ago by Gorilla Grodd who has no super speed to his name,

LOL at acting like they share the same mental powers GG does. Did you even watch the show?

Originally posted by KingD19
He's been shot in the back of the neck with a bullet(barely), and just recently could only stop 2 of the 3 bullets Joe shot at that shapeshifter. If he could only stop 2 rounds from a pistol, what's he going to do against automatic weaponry from at least two different people?

You mean he caught a bullet fired from a blindspot. How is that a bad showing? And you to omitted a key detail about the 3 bullets, in that he ran smack dab into a forcefield designed to stop speedsters while reaching for the last one. He would have stopped all three if it wasn't for the barrier.

Team 2 wins.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Yes yes, more "Watch the Show"

Anyways, Firestorm and Flash destroy them.

So you're not going to try and counter any of the stuff I pointed out from episodes as recent as the past 2-3 weeks?

I could bring up how he was having trouble with the laser eye dude and the mist guy in this weeks episode. Or how when it's not the most important thing in the world like saving Joe's life, he got hit by lightning.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
LOL at acting like they share the same mental powers GG does. Did you even watch the show?

So Grodd's still vaguely defined mental powers made him fast enough to catch Barry's punch where he'd been building up speed for over 5 miles?


This match is in character which is the only reason I'm arguing against Flash and Crew. Because in character, Barry gets taken down by lesser people than this team on a fairly consistent basis.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You mean he caught a bullet fired from a blindspot. How is that a bad showing? And you to omitted a key detail about the 3 bullets, in that he ran smack dab into a forcefield designed to stop speedsters while reaching for the last one. He would have stopped all three if it wasn't for the barrier.

Team 2 wins.

You're right about the forcefield. I forgot about that part.

Still, I'm sure you've seen every episode. Going in character do you think Flash will be as effective as people are thinking? This is normal Flash, not "Save Joe/Iris Flash" or "Save the city from a Tsunami Flash".

Originally posted by KingD19
So Grodd's still vaguely defined mental powers made him fast enough to catch Barry's punch where he'd been building up speed for over 5 miles?


This match is in character which is the only reason I'm arguing against Flash and Crew. Because in character, Barry gets taken down by lesser people than this team on a fairly consistent basis.

Lol, quit downplaying Grodd, he was insanely beyond Superhuman levels and had obvious TP abilities. As well as insane superhuman strength and durability.

Adding in Firestrom and Arrow here is just over kill, the match is spite to start with, as everyone has stated. Arguing a spite thread is something stupid.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Lol, quit downplaying Grodd, he was insanely beyond Superhuman levels and had obvious TP abilities. As well as insane superhuman strength and durability. And yes he had telepathy, he could control people and talk through them as shown by puppeting Eiling, and basically force feed his memories into someones brain as torture.

His strength and durability are unquestionable. I said nothing about them as he got hit by a train, stopped Barry's super speed punch, and took a lot of blitz punches with no problem.

He was not superhumanly fast however. He's pretty agile as he was climbing buildings and hopping pretty far, but none of that should have given him the speed to catch Barry's punch considering how he moved the rest of the time.

Arrow wins even if you switch Barry with someone like Slade or Malcom.

Originally posted by KingD19
So you're not going to try and counter any of the stuff I pointed out from episodes as recent as the past 2-3 weeks?

I could bring up how he was having trouble with the laser eye dude and the mist guy in this weeks episode. Or how when it's not the most important thing in the world like saving Joe's life, he got hit by lightning.

I didn't realize people in OP had lasers or lightning guns.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I didn't realize people in OP had lasers or lightning guns.

They don't. But three of them have guns. And it wasn't a lightning gun, Weather Wizard actually controls the weather.

Again, this is in character Barry. In character Barry who gets tagged by stuff that shouldn't even be within a mile of him at least once per episode.

Originally posted by KingD19
They don't. But three of them have guns. And it wasn't a lightning gun, Weather Wizard actually controls the weather.

Again, this is in character Barry. In character Barry who gets tagged by stuff that shouldn't even be within a mile of him at least once per episode.

It was a joke..cmon! Yes they have guns, they don't have lasers or the ability to use lightning..

You can say him fighting in Character all you want, but then I could say Cap was fighting in character against Quicksilver and so was Thor, and QS was able to do it.

Also Flash has way more experience then QS and is faster.

So I really don't know what you are saying, if by character you mean he fights stupid, then he can create a diversion and firestorm and arrow can dominate the fight.

Are you really suggesting Cap stops his 5.3 mile punch like Grodd did if they fighting in character?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
It was a joke..cmon! Yes they have guns, they don't have lasers or the ability to use lightning..

You can say him fighting in Character all you want, but then I could say Cap was fighting in character against Quicksilver and so was Thor, and QS was able to do it.

Also Flash has way more experience then QS and is faster.

So I really don't know what you are saying, if by character you mean he fights stupid, then he can create a diversion and firestorm and arrow can dominate the fight.

Are you really suggesting Cap stops his 5.3 mile punch like Grodd did if they fighting in character?

I don't joke with you. All we do is argue. Or begrudingly agree on something...then argue later. That's our thing...well it's your thing with everyone.

Flash is faster than Pietro on occasion. Not all the time.

Lol at Arrow dominating against Bucky and Cap. Arrow definitely gets shot.

Firestorm could do some serious damage, but he's not bulletproof as far as I know so he's just as much in danger of getting popped from well outside the range of his flames.

No bfr in this match. Going 5 miles away from the battleground would be a self BFR. I'm not sure if he could stop it; more often than not I'd say no. If he was looking at Flash as he ran toward him there's a possibility he'd get his shield up in time and probably break Barry's hand in the process.

But it's a moot point as his mach punch has only been done twice and both times it was something of a disaster.

Oh ok, we can't debate anymore in fear or a argument or disagreement.

I guess what's the point of coming here to debate then.

The whole forum argues and debates.

Its not just "my thing."

I treat everyone the same..

I never pick sides, I don't choose bias, each thread is different, and you think cause we agree sometimes and disagree other times is a big deal.

If everyone agreed on everything then we could all just sit on our thumbs.

If Team 1 had Quicksilver I would say Team 1 wins.. its that easy..I dont care if one side is marvel or dc. I only like Superman in DC, thats it. I care less about the war btw marvel/dc fanboys.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Oh ok, we can't debate anymore in fear or a argument or disagreement.

I guess what's the point of coming here to debate then.

The whole forum argues and debates.

Its not just "my thing."

I treat everyone the same..

If I left because of every person I disagreed with, I'd never be on here. I'm not as stubborn as Quan, but it's not that easy to get rid of me.

F*cking Quan, man.

Originally posted by KingD19
If I left because of every person I disagreed with, I'd never be on here. I'm not as stubborn as Quan, but it's not that easy to get rid of me.

F*cking Quan, man.

Lol, so then why can't we joke. cause I dont have any animosity towards you. Only person on the board I cant stand is Riv..

Originally posted by KingD19
Still, I'm sure you've seen every episode. Going in character do you think Flash will be as effective as people are thinking? This is normal Flash, not "Save Joe/Iris Flash" or "Save the city from a Tsunami Flash".

Thing is he also has consistent showings of totally blitzing, disarming, and even stripping and handcuffing people, before they can respond. And in recent times, he has been portrayed as generally operating at a higher level. Look at his fight with the shapeshifter. He easily blocked every hit (well, when not blinded) and knocked him around like a ragdoll. Once he got the mace out of his eyes it was totally one-sided.

u_qH9OWaRvc

He has been consistently portrayed at operating at these kinds of levels in recent episodes. Grodd is actually an outlier compared to Barry's other more recent showings.

Just look at the fight with Wells in the last episode. Arrow and Firestorm couldn't do shit while Barry and Wells were going at it at full speed. Both needed to take moments to basically sneak attack Wells to have any chance of hitting him. Decent durability feats for Barry as well, like getting tossed a good 50 feet away, into the side of a building, without taking any real damage.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Lol, so then why can't we joke. cause I dont have any animosity towards you. Only person on the board I cant stand is Riv..

Because I'm never sure if you're joking or being serious, lol. Or both...it's like an angry question wrapped inside a grumpy enigma.

I'll put j/k tags in if I'm joking. Make it easier cause we have had this mis understanding a few times. that will make it easier.

Time for some fact clean up on the Dc side because certain posters are lying about facts.

Grodd caught Barry's supersonic punch fairly, Barry had on a headband that blocked tp.

I should also point out Barry has only 1 potential LS feat and it was a meta human's lightning, as of now it takes Barry multiple miles of running in a straight line to build up to Mach 1. Ironman Mk. 2 could do that speed.

Firestorm is a glass cannon, he got knocked out by a powerful gust of wind.

Also Ollie tanked blood lusted Barry beating on him.
///
This isn't spite unless you don't watch the shows.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
I should also point out Barry has only 1 potential LS feat and it was a meta human's lightning, as of now it takes Barry multiple miles of running in a straight line to build up to Mach 1. Ironman Mk. 2 could do that speed.

So you are going to ignore all the other instances where he is clearly moving at supersonic speeds without a build up? Like dodging lightning, while carrying Joe, when Weather Wizard attacked their car? Lightning that generally moves at around 3,700 miles per second. Admittedly, it's probably his top speed feat, but he did it out of a sitting position, so he clearly doesn't need a run up, if push comes to shove.

I class his fight with Grodd with his fight against Heatwave/Cold, at the same level of stupid. Based on feats, he shouldn't have needed 5.3 miles to do that. Hell, after he did it the first time, they kept going on about how much faster and faster he was getting as the show progressed. And in the other showings, as the series moved along, we can visibly pick this up.

All his other... You mean the one I mentioned. And you're assuming Weather Wizard's lightning is the same as normal lightning. Barry fails with much slower than light speed and has no travel feats above Mach 1.

...as the show progressed? It was 1 episode ago that Grodd & Barry fought. Barry isn't fast enough on consistent showings to be compared with either movie QS.

hate to admit it but barryu does screw this up, while he is fast enough to travel through time you can't take away the fact that he is getting tagged by slower enemies. firestorm is more of a thread but not by much.

cap goes on defense/ slight offense where as wintersoldier stays on the ground and going full strategic bad ass while black widow gets a good vantage point. falcon takes any of the blind siders.

black widow and WS take this with gus and automatic weaponry not to mention they have the marksman training and skills to deal with a situation like this

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
All his other... You mean the one I mentioned. And you're assuming Weather Wizard's lightning is the same as normal lightning. Barry fails with much slower than light speed and has no travel feats above Mach 1.

Is there any reason whatsoever that that specific lightning strike from a storm cloud is going to be any slower than regular lightning, simply because Mark made it happen? Are you saying it was? Prove it then, if that's what you think.

He also dodged electrical blasts from another metahuman way earlier in the series, and has gotten faster since then. Oh and caught up with and grabbed bullets, including ones fired at his back. So you are ignoring his other feats. Good to know.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
...as the show progressed? It was 1 episode ago that Grodd & Barry fought. Barry isn't fast enough on consistent showings to be compared with either movie QS.

So you didn't pay attention all the times Harrison has mentioned how Barry was getting faster and faster, his speed, reactions and uses for his powers were improving etc.? And like I said, that Grodd fight was no better than the ridiculous Heatwave/Captain Cold fight. What you are doing is using one fight (which is inconsistent with his most recent showings), while ignoring all the times he has easily blitzed people with regular speed, especially in more current episodes. So good job lowballing.

Also, if you really want to go there and use only the very most recent showings, last showing for Barry was in Arrow when he casually cleared Nanda Parbat of all the assassins that didn't accompany Ollie and Ra's to Starling City. They still ask him how many are left and he says "none", and there were hundreds in total, and only a few on the plane or with Ra's (certainly not anywhere close to their total numbers), implying Barry pretty much solo'd the majority of the League in seconds.

Team Cap stomps.

Originally posted by KingD19
This is in character though. So that's exactly what he'll do. In character he gets beat down and tagged by normal people(normal as in don't move any faster than usual) all the time. So Widow, Cap, and Bucky can all score hits. Plus they can shoot him as he's shown multiple times he's still having trouble against bullets.

And as far as I know, Firestorm isn't bulletproof nor is he faster than bullets. I think any of the three on the team who use guns would try and take out the flaming guy pretty quick.

In character means Barry gets both his low end and high end showings. Yes he's been tagged by non speedsters before but he's also had feats that no non-speedster could hope to match.

So let's not pretend he ALWAYS gets tagged by non speedsters.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In character means Barry gets both his low end and high end showings. Yes he's been tagged by non speedsters before but he's also had feats that no non-speedster could hope to match.

So let's not pretend he ALWAYS gets tagged by non speedsters.

Yeah, apparently for a lot of people supporting Team Cap, Barry "in character" means disregard all his higher end showings and only use low showings. Nevermind that the majority of his lower end showings, where he gets tagged by non speedsters, happens early in the season, and decreases as his speed develops.

Oh, and a thing about Grodd. People trying to lowball Barry with that fight should stop to think about it for a second. Grodd might not be a speedster, but he did have superhuman reaction times. Why? Because he caught Barry's supersonic punch. It's not called his "very fast punch". It's called his supersonic punch for a reason. And Grodd reacted to it and blocked it.

And like I said, his very latest showing, in Nanda Parbat, has him easily blitzing multiple assassins at once before they could even begin to react to him.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Is there any reason whatsoever that that specific lightning strike from a storm cloud is going to be any slower than regular lightning, simply because Mark made it happen? Are you saying it was? Prove it then, if that's what you think.

He also dodged electrical blasts from another metahuman way earlier in the series, and has gotten faster since then. Oh and caught up with and grabbed bullets, including ones fired at his back. So you are ignoring his other feats. Good to know.



So you didn't pay attention all the times Harrison has mentioned how Barry was getting faster and faster, his speed, reactions and uses for his powers were improving etc.? And like I said, that Grodd fight was no better than the ridiculous Heatwave/Captain Cold fight. What you are doing is using one fight (which is inconsistent with his most recent showings), while ignoring all the times he has easily blitzed people with regular speed, especially in more current episodes. So good job lowballing. I presented doubt and asked for any example that works in unison with the WW Lightning feat. You have so far conceded this point.
You keep saying "you don't understand" and then abandon your point, Yes Barry has been training, no he hasn't shown any great changes yet. Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, if you really want to go there and use only the very most recent showings, last showing for Barry was in Arrow when he casually cleared Nanda Parbat of all the assassins that didn't accompany Ollie and Ra's to Starling City. They still ask him how many are left and he says "none", and there were hundreds in total, and only a few on the plane or with Ra's (certainly not anywhere close to their total numbers), implying Barry pretty much solo'd the majority of the League in seconds. Det. lance dropped one of these "elite" assassins. Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, apparently for a lot of people supporting Team Cap, Barry "in character" means disregard all his higher end showings and only use low showings. Nevermind that the majority of his lower end showings, where he gets tagged by non speedsters, happens early in the season, and decreases as his speed develops.

Oh, and a thing about Grodd. People trying to lowball Barry with that fight should stop to think about it for a second. Grodd might not be a speedster, but he did have superhuman reaction times. Why? Because he caught Barry's supersonic punch. It's not called his "very fast punch". It's called his supersonic punch for a reason. And Grodd reacted to it and blocked it.

And like I said, his very latest showing, in Nanda Parbat, has him easily blitzing multiple assassins at once before they could even begin to react to him. we aren't lowballing, you're applying non combat feats with dubious calcs and trying to use them as combat feats Barry doesn't have.

Agreed, solid feat for Grodd

LoA are very much RL humans, both Cap & Bucky have superhuman durability and Falcon can fly.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
I presented doubt and asked for any example that works in unison with the WW Lightning feat. You have so far conceded this point.
You keep saying "you don't understand" and then abandon your point, Yes Barry has been training, no he hasn't shown any great changes yet. Det. lance dropped one of these "elite" assassins. we aren't lowballing, you're applying non combat feats with dubious calcs and trying to use them as combat feats Barry doesn't have.


No, I have not conceded anything. I mentioned another specific instance where a different metahuman was firing electrical blasts at him, which he avoided. And I don't need to prove that lightning acts like lightning. If you want to imply that MM's lightning is slower than regular lightning, because he is a metahuman, it's up to you to prove it, not me.

If you can't visibly see how he has improved, how he gets tagged less often in fights, how he has achieved greater feats with his speed (like vibrating through matter, time travel etc.) by watching the show, then I really have no idea what to say to you. I mean really, he shows not only the speed, but also the durability to react to bullets successfully on multiple occasions (even ones fired from a blindspot), but he can't react that way to a fist?

And that's ignoring the fight with the shifter, where Barry clearly outclassed him by leagues in terms of fighting speed, once he is no longer blinded.


Originally posted by Henry_Pym

LoA are very much RL humans, both Cap & Bucky have superhuman durability and Falcon can fly.

That was to counter the whole "regular humans tag and beat Barry all the time" stuff people were spewing. In the beginning of the series, yes, that happened a lot. But it has decreased steadily as the show has progressed. That in itself shows visible improvement to his speed, and ability to use it properly. And Barry has dealt with the flying drones Cisco used for training halfway through the season, so not like he is totally inexperienced with something like that.

And another key thing people are forgetting is that while RF is faster than him, Barry is still quick enough to register his movements, react and give him somewhat of a fight. So he has multiple legitimate feats of fighting and reacting at speeds beyond anyone on Team Cap could achieve.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
No, I have not conceded anything. I mentioned another specific instance where a different metahuman was firing electrical blasts at him, which he avoided. And I don't need to prove that lightning acts like lightning. If you want to imply that MM's lightning is slower than regular lightning, because he is a metahuman, it's up to you to prove it, not me.
If you can't visibly see how he has improved, how he gets tagged less often in fights, how he has achieved greater feats with his speed (like vibrating through matter, time travel etc.) by watching the show, then I really have no idea what to say to you. I mean really, he shows not only the speed, but also the durability to react to bullets successfully on multiple occasions (even ones fired from a blindspot), but he can't react that way to a fist?
And that's ignoring the fight with the shifter, where Barry clearly outclassed him by leagues in terms of fighting speed, once he is no longer blinded.
That was to counter the whole "regular humans tag and beat Barry all the time" stuff people were spewing. In the beginning of the series, yes, that happened a lot. But it has decreased steadily as the show has progressed. That in itself shows visible improvement to his speed, and ability to use it properly. And Barry has dealt with the flying drones Cisco used for training halfway through the season, so not like he is totally inexperienced with something like that.
And another key thing people are forgetting is that while RF is faster than him, Barry is still quick enough to register his movements, react and give him somewhat of a fight. So he has multiple legitimate feats of fighting and reacting at speeds beyond anyone on Team Cap could achieve. name any other time Barry has moved faster than light.

Barry got attacked by bees 2 episodes ago. You're getting dangerously close to me calling you a liar. Barry phased once with Eobard's direct help.

... Barry is faster than base human...ok?

Honestly think you're not watching the show.

Ok? Barry can see the ass-kicking he's getting? What's your point?

Barry blitzes non-superspeed enemies more often than he gets tagged.
So just because he gets tagged every now and then (not the norm) we're going to assume that Cap and WS can just hit him whenever they want?

Pish. Fanboys.

Need I also mention that Barry has the strongest healing factor here?

Barry has also failed to drop unpowered people after many many blows... Ollie also hit Barry multiple times and he is slower and less skilled than Cap or WS

I agree, people need to watch the shows and stop basing arguments off assumptions.

I'd say no, as it holds no bearing here. If Barry gets shot or knocked out his HF won't get him up anytime soon.

Doesn't Barry have, albeit limited, bullet time speed now as shown with that shape-shifting dude? Seems like it'd bee a lot hard for Team 1 to simple just shoot Cap. Though Barry's feats aren't really consistent enough to say that he'd simply blitz the team.

Cap has went up against a speedster in AOU and did horribly against him in h2h, Flash is faster thanQuicksilver so how could the outcome be any different here?

Cap got punched by him while fighting Ultron? Not sure what you are implying?

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Cap got punched by him while fighting Ultron? Not sure what you are implying?

Cap hit him after he had been tossed from trying to grab the hammer while it was flying. It tossed QS across the room and as he was getting up Cap tagged him with the shield. He didn't even see him coming.

cap got blitzed by silver twice, the second time he was battle ready so yeah, he doent do too well against speedsters, the only reason he was able to tag silver at all, as time pointed out was when he was disoriented from trying to grab mjolnir midair

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Barry has also failed to drop unpowered people after many many blows... Ollie also hit Barry multiple times and he is slower and less skilled than Cap or WS

I agree, people need to watch the shows and stop basing arguments off assumptions.

I'd say no, as it holds no bearing here. If Barry gets shot or knocked out his HF won't get him up anytime soon.

Barry got shot by crossbows on the back. Didn't kill him and he was pretty OK later. I'd say his HF will definitely be a factor here. If he gets shot and it's not a fatal shot (like say, maybe a shot to the shoulder), he'd probably tank it better than any other person in this fight.

Cap had a hard time fighting QS and Barry is faster than QS.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
name any other time Barry has moved faster than light.


lol, here is your problem. You are asking me to provide examples of stuff I never said. Quote me once where I said Barry is lightspeed. Just once. Oh wait, you can't because I never said it. He dodges lightning from WW and he dodges electrical blasts from Blackout. That would put him above supersonic speed, not at light speed, which was what I was saying. You keep going on about light speed but you are literally the only one who has brought it up.


Originally posted by Henry_Pym

Barry got attacked by bees 2 episodes ago. You're getting dangerously close to me calling you a liar. Barry phased once with Eobard's direct help.

Yeah, he got surrounded by a friggin' wall of them. Speed isn't an insta-win in every situation. It's not like Barry can fly after them to beat the individual bees into submission.

And point is we know he has learned to do phasing and can. And I have not called you a liar. But you continuously gloss over every single piece of evidence, from the show, I represent. You are honestly just coming across as a Marvel fanboy who tried to make a match you already decided the result of.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym

... Barry is faster than base human...ok?


Not just a base human. He is faster than anyone else in this thread, enhanced or not. You are downplaying the crap out of him, and only use his lowest showings when commenting about him.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym

Honestly think you're not watching the show.


I feel the same way about you at this point. We literally see him find more uses for his powers. We hear he himself, and Wells (the friggin' Reverse Flash, and probably the most knowledgeable person of anyone in the show about superspeed) comment how much he is improving. Hell, in the first episode he was clocked only at around 400mph if I recall correctly, and has increased his speed significantly as things have progressed. But I suspect you will again just gloss this over and pretend that visible evidence across the entire season doesn't count.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym

Ok? Barry can see the ass-kicking he's getting? What's your point?

LOL at you acting like anyone on Team Cap is in the Reverse Flash's league in terms of speed. If Barry can perceive, react and at least to some degree respond, during combat, to Wells, then he can definitely do so to anyone on Team Cap. But I suspect you will ignore this point again, like you have done so far.

I should have known this was a waste of time, considering your past ridiculous statements, like Hawkeye would kick Arrow's ass in H2H, in another thread. I remember it well because I laughed out loud.

Honestly, this match is really 2 VS 4, because there is nothing to suggest that Barry can't do something like this to Falcon and Widow the moment the match starts. This is his very latest showing. Only need to watch the beginning, it's where all the action is:

JXnh6YOqHeE

He could take Widow and Falcon out before they can even do anything. Unless someone can provide proof or feats, instead of trying to lowball the Flash, that Widow or Falcon can react to someone moving at the speeds Barry is moving in the clip. And it is not like it's a once off showing either. He has blitzed a number of people, powered and non-powered, throughout the series, as well as during his guest appearances on Arrow.

Originally posted by relentless1
cap got blitzed by silver twice, the second time he was battle ready so yeah, he doent do too well against speedsters, the only reason he was able to tag silver at all, as time pointed out was when he was disoriented from trying to grab mjolnir midair ??? The first time while cap was fighting Hydra or the second time after Ultron floored cap? Either time cap was heavily distracted. Originally posted by FrothByte
Barry got shot by crossbows on the back. Didn't kill him and he was pretty OK later. I'd say his HF will definitely be a factor here. If he gets shot and it's not a fatal shot (like say, maybe a shot to the shoulder), he'd probably tank it better than any other person in this fight.

Cap had a hard time fighting QS and Barry is faster than QS. id love for you to prove that last statement.Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
lol, here is your problem. You are asking me to provide examples of stuff I never said. Quote me once where I said Barry is lightspeed. Just once. Oh wait, you can't because I never said it. He dodges lightning from WW and he dodges electrical blasts from Blackout. That would put him above supersonic speed, not at light speed, which was what I was saying. You keep going on about light speed but you are literally the only one who has brought it up.




Yeah, he got surrounded by a friggin' wall of them. Speed isn't an insta-win in every situation. It's not like Barry can fly after them to beat the individual bees into submission.

And point is we know he has learned to do phasing and can. And I have not called you a liar. But you continuously gloss over every single piece of evidence, from the show, I represent. You are honestly just coming across as a Marvel fanboy who tried to make a match you already decided the result of.



Not just a base human. He is faster than anyone else in this thread, enhanced or not. You are downplaying the crap out of him, and only use his lowest showings when commenting about him.



I feel the same way about you at this point. We literally see him find more uses for his powers. We hear he himself, and Wells (the friggin' Reverse Flash, and probably the most knowledgeable person of anyone in the show about superspeed) comment how much he is improving. Hell, in the first episode he was clocked only at around 400mph if I recall correctly, and has increased his speed significantly as things have progressed. But I suspect you will again just gloss this over and pretend that visible evidence across the entire season doesn't count.



LOL at you acting like anyone on Team Cap is in the Reverse Flash's league in terms of speed. If Barry can perceive, react and at least to some degree respond, during combat, to Wells, then he can definitely do so to anyone on Team Cap. But I suspect you will ignore this point again, like you have done so far.

I should have known this was a waste of time, considering your past ridiculous statements, like Hawkeye would kick Arrow's ass in H2H, in another thread. I remember it well because I laughed out loud. confirmed dumbass. Faster than lightning means faster than light... Ignored.

You really think QS if fast enough to catch bullets in mid flight? Or fast enough to time travel or phase through objects?

Originally posted by FrothByte
You really think QS if fast enough to catch bullets in mid flight? Or fast enough to time travel or phase through objects?

Avenger's Quicksilver watched bullets in flight several times. And moved so fast everything around him was frozen in time.

Let's not act like Barry can time travel whenever he wants. Even Eobard isn't that fast yet.

Originally posted by KingD19
Avenger's Quicksilver watched bullets in flight several times. And moved so fast everything around him was frozen in time.

Let's not act like Barry can time travel whenever he wants. Even Eobard isn't that fast yet.

Let me rephrase. Do you think QS is fast enough to catch up to bullets even after they've been fired or have the potential (if he pushes himself hard) to phase through matter or travel through time?

Originally posted by KingD19
Avenger's Quicksilver watched bullets in flight several times. And moved so fast everything around him was frozen in time.

Let's not act like Barry can time travel whenever he wants. Even Eobard isn't that fast yet.


...so basically you support the fact that WS and Cap are severely outclassed by Flash??

Quicksilver was able to perceive Thor's hammer moving as slow when it's right next to him. Make of that what you will

Flash can run backwards in time, but time doesn't hit back.

lulface

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Quicksilver was able to perceive Thor's hammer moving as slow when it's right next to him. Make of that what you will

Well in Thor 2 Mjolnir was racing around the planet in seconds.

Indeed it did, which would be about in the mach triple digits or something

Originally posted by relentless1
Barry solos, Firestorm makes it spite

What feat of Firestorm is that impressive? I put him in here as someone to keep Falcon from soloing.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
What feat of Firestorm is that impressive? I put him in here as someone to keep Falcon from soloing.

lmao...wow dude, your marvel bias is showing big time right now, have you no shame? at least pretend youre a real comic book fan and not just a marvel fantard

This has nothing to do with comics. In The Flash so far, Firestorm has been nothing but a short range flamethrower with a jetpack thrown in. The only transmutation he's shown so far is actually fusing from Ronnie and Professor Stein.

Originally posted by KingD19
This has nothing to do with comics. In The Flash so far, Firestorm has been nothing but a short range flamethrower with a jetpack thrown in. The only transmutation he's shown so far is actually fusing from Ronnie and Professor Stein. '

regardless hes more than enough to beat people like falcon and widow...dude can fly and shoot fire...

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
What feat of Firestorm is that impressive? I put him in here as someone to keep Falcon from soloing.

How'd Falcon solo?

Anyway Team 2 can win but Cap's team appears to have the advantage. While Flash could solo, the absurd amount of CIS would probably keep him from doing so. Firestorm is ultimately a glass cannon and Arrow wouldn't really stand much of a chance against Bucky or Cap.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
confirmed dumbass. Faster than lightning means faster than light... Ignored.

You have no way to counter any of my arguments so you make a factually incorrect statement. The light from lightning travels at the speed of light. The bolt itself doesn't move anywhere close to as fast. Air conditions can cause variations, but the actual bolt typically moves at about 3,700 miles per second. Speed of light = 186 282.397 miles per second. Facts > you.

So concession accepted and I am not wasting more time on you.

Also, would just like to point out to people constantly bringing up "in character" to hamstring Barry. In character, as people have mentioned, Barry performs at his highest when the threat is particularly serious, friends are in danger etc. Friends like Oliver and Ronnie, who are in the match. So, if Barry performs towards his higher end, in character, when friends are in danger, and friends will be in danger in this match, logically it stands to reason that an "in character" Barry would be operating at his higher levels for this fight.

Originally posted by KingD19
Avenger's Quicksilver watched bullets in flight several times. And moved so fast everything around him was frozen in time.

He also got shot in the arm by friendly fire. In comparison, Barry caught a bullet coming from behind, aimed at his neck.

Originally posted by KingD19
Well in Thor 2 Mjolnir was racing around the planet in seconds.

And, so what? The hammer clearly doesn't always move at the same speed, unless you are suggesting that Kurse has hypersonic reflexes, because he has managed to deflect a hammer toss before? And I know you wouldn't make a claim like that.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
He also got shot in the arm by friendly fire. In comparison, Barry caught a bullet coming from behind, aimed at his neck.

He got shot by friendly fire because he was paying attention to the hundreds of murder bots swarming the city and thought one of the soldiers was still shooting at the Ultron Drones.

Also he watched the bullet as it grazed him. Could he have stopped it? From the speed he was looking at it, yes. But it was comedic effect.

Originally posted by KingD19
He got shot by friendly fire because he was paying attention to the hundreds of murder bots swarming the city and thought one of the soldiers was still shooting at the Ultron Drones.

And Barry had his back turned and was focused on the teleporter girl, and caught a bullet behind his head without even looking.

Originally posted by KingD19

Also he watched the bullet as it grazed him. Could he have stopped it? From the speed he was looking at it, yes. But it was comedic effect.

No he didn't. I have watched the movie twice in 3D and once in 2D, so I know it pretty well by now. He was charging forward with his arm outstretched and got a through-and-through (or it looks and sounds like it). He then stops to look at it, and then back at the person who shot him, annoyed. It is impressive though that it didn't seem to affect him at all for the remainder of the battle. I do know he was charging forward and not looking at his arm.

Point is, Barry has multiple bullet catching feats by now. Any bullet catching by QS is pure speculation. And also, not seeing the point here. QS outclasses anyone on Team Cap here, by leagues, in terms of speed as well. Only time someone landed a hit was when he was disorientated after grabbing Mjolnir and got flung, and he easily blitzed Ultron, Cap and Hawkeye.

So even if we go as far as saying Barry and QS are close to equals, that STILL puts Barry well above anyone here's ability to fight.

Originally posted by relentless1
Barry solos, Firestorm makes it spite

Honestly, this is a close match. I just think Team 2 has too much versatility. Team Cap is pretty much brawn and bullets. Team Arrow has speed, sonic attacks, fire attacks, Ollie has various trick arrows, in most recent showings uses swords, and other gadgets, and has improved his skills to the point where he can stomp Nissa and fight evenly with Ra's. So while he won't beat either Cap or Bucky, he has enough feats of hanging with superpowered people and peak humans, that he can at least keep them busy. Remember, in character Cap doesn't go all out against regular people and, because of that, also sometimes gets tagged by things he shouldn't, based on showings.

And I really don't get what the big deal is about Falcon. He has done nothing impressive so far in the films. Barry destroyed a drone with mounted machine guns (whose bullets he easily dodged) during training before, and WS has nailed Falcon with a grappling hook, so he can be tagged by someone as skilled as Oliver.

Basing from feats alone, I actually think Arrow can beat Falcon as long as the fight doesn't take place in an open field where Arrow has no cover.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Basing from feats alone, I actually think Arrow can beat Falcon as long as the fight doesn't take place in an open field where Arrow has no cover.

Yeah, it's actually easy to forget all of his feats across 3 seasons, but Ollie pulls off a lot of insane shit on a very frequent basis. And his recent massive skill increase, plus his expanded arsenal (smoke bombs, swords etc.), make him an even tougher opponent than he was in the past. Because I am assuming we are using him at his most recent showings, considering the OP did not specify otherwise.