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Juggernaut with force field. SBP is grounded, no vision or breath attacks. Equal speed. No prep or BFR for either.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/81560-186971-superboy-prime.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/144443/3113433-3621450967-23132.jpg

How durable is Juggy with the forcefield? Classic Juggernaut? I don't think he has the strength to hurt Prime though. This might be a stalemate.

Juggernaut can most Def hurt Prime, I just don't think he has the tools to permanently put him down. Giving this to Prime.

No he can't.

Prime punches him into another reality in which Cain didn't slowly become a loser.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
No he can't.

Prime punches him into another reality in which Cain didn't slowly become a loser.
Y can't he

Superboy can harm Prime ffs, so Juggs can.

Spite Thread

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Y can't he He lacks the physical strength.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Superboy can harm Prime ffs, so Juggs can. Yet Black Adam's punches only tickled Prime.

Originally posted by riv6672
Juggernaut with force field. SBP is grounded, no vision or breath attacks. Equal speed. No prep or BFR for either.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/81560-186971-superboy-prime.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/144443/3113433-3621450967-23132.jpg Juggs wins.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
He lacks the physical strength.

Yet Black Adam's punches only tickled Prime.

Think that showing had more to do with Black Adams Magic.

Originally posted by carver9
Think that showing had more to do with Black Adams Magic. Prime resistance to magic doesn't change the fact that he laughed off three punches from a Superman tier being and proceeded to one-shot bfr said being.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Prime resistance to magic doesn't change the fact that he laughed off three punches from a Superman tier being and proceeded to one-shot bfr said being.

Clearly Superboy > Black Adam

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Prime resistance to magic doesn't change the fact that he laughed off three punches from a Superman tier being and proceeded to one-shot bfr said being. Superboy scarred him for life and krypto caused him to bleed. Juggs wins.

Of course. Superboy was skyfather level in IC

Originally posted by quanchi112
Superboy scarred him for life and krypto caused him to bleed. Juggs wins. He had a greater fear of the Flashes and they didn't even beat him

And he was weakened when the krypto thing happened. Prime wins or stalemate.

The problem is Prime was hit by people stronger then Superboy and not harmed. Prime was all over the place when it came to durability.

Originally posted by carver9
Think that showing had more to do with Black Adams Magic.

He hit Prime with magically amped punches yes. Black Adam's magically amped punches>>>>Connor Kent punching you one would think.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
He had a greater fear of the Flashes and they didn't even beat him

And he was weakened when the krypto thing happened. Prime wins or stalemate. Yes, they bfrd him for the win.

Superboy hurt him worse than Black Adam. He's highly resistant to magical based attacks. There's your answer. Prove he was weakened for the krypto thing.

The Teen Titans ko'd him.

Juggernaut wins.

His being highly resistant to magical attacks isn't an answer though. A magically amped punch from Black Adam is going to be more powerful then any attack Superboy can throw. Especially since a normal every day non amped punch from BA would be more powerful then anything Superboy can do.

Originally posted by Surtur
His being highly resistant to magical attacks isn't an answer though. A magically amped punch from Black Adam is going to be more powerful then any attack Superboy can throw. Especially since a normal every day non amped punch from BA would be more powerful then anything Superboy can do. But if he's highly resistant to magic that means it will have less impact on him than Superboy. It's like saying mordru is less powerful than Superboy because prime laughed off a blast but was scarred for life by Superboy. It is the answer. High resistance to magic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
But if he's highly resistant to magic that means it will have less impact on him than Superboy. It's like saying mordru is less powerful than Superboy because prime laughed off a blast but was scarred for life by Superboy. It is the answer. High resistance to magic.

You don't get it, even without the magic added to the hit it is more powerful then any punch Superboy could throw.

The feat shows not only a resistance to magic, but an overall resistance to physical force. There is Class 100 strength behind those punches, whether or not he adds some magic lightning to the punches. In other words, BA can't exploit a weakness to magic to bypass durability, which means he'd need to accomplish it on his attack just being sufficiently potent enough to hurt Prime. It turned out to not be sufficiently potent enough.

So you either believe Superboy hits with force superior to Black Adam or..what?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, they bfrd him for the win.

Superboy hurt him worse than Black Adam. He's highly resistant to magical based attacks. There's your answer. Prove he was weakened for the krypto thing.

The Teen Titans ko'd him.

Juggernaut wins. Exactly.

A punch isn't a magic based attack, so your analogy is wrong as per usual. Maybe the magic part of the attack didn't affect him but the strength behind the punch was still there. Superman tier strength.

Read the issue and you'll know why he was weakened.

Lowballing? Really?

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Exactly.

A punch isn't a magic based attack, so your analogy is wrong as per usual. Maybe the magic part of the attack didn't affect him but the strength behind the punch was still there. Superman tier strength.

Read the issue and you'll know why he was weakened.

Lowballing? Really? Bfr is a win. You said they didn't even beat him. Bfr is beating him.

His punches had magical energy attached to it. Did you actually read the comic ?

Magical punches. Highly resistant. That's why.

You made it up. Again.

It's canon. Quit avoiding the fact he was physically pummeled by far less than top tier strength. Juggs is going to work him.

Prime.

Originally posted by Surtur
You don't get it, even without the magic added to the hit it is more powerful then any punch Superboy could throw.

The feat shows not only a resistance to magic, but an overall resistance to physical force. There is Class 100 strength behind those punches, whether or not he adds some magic lightning to the punches. In other words, BA can't exploit a weakness to magic to bypass durability, which means he'd need to accomplish it on his attack just being sufficiently potent enough to hurt Prime. It turned out to not be sufficiently potent enough.

So you either believe Superboy hits with force superior to Black Adam or..what? That isn't how it worked. Magical means he is highly resisted due to the resistance to magic.

Again, the point was made. Far less has ko'd him and those punches weren't magical. 2+2=4.

Superboy doesn't possess magical punches therefore prime is less resistant. Black Adam though far more powerful throes magical punches and that's why he can resist them.

Simple.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bfr is a win. You said they didn't even beat him. Bfr is beating him.

His punches had magical energy attached to it. Did you actually read the comic ?

Magical punches. Highly resistant. That's why.

You made it up. Again.

It's canon. Quit avoiding the fact he was physically pummeled by far less than top tier strength. Juggs is going to work him. Bfr is a forum win, it wasn't a forum fight. Do I need to go teacher on you?

Were his fists magic constructs? No? Then you're wrong.

Earth heroes almost beat him before the sun came out. When the sun touched him he threw them away like old toys. The krypto scene happened before the sun came out.

Read the issue.

Yup, still cannon but a low showing. Not that I expected better from you.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Bfr is a forum win, it wasn't a forum fight. Do I need to go teacher on you?

Were his fists magic constructs? No? Then you're wrong.

Earth heroes almost beat him before the sun came out. When the sun touched him he threw them away like old toys. The krypto scene happened before the sun came out.

Read the issue.

Yup, still cannon but a low showing. Not that I expected better from you. It is a win in the comics. They didn't want him there and took him elsewhere. He was held prisoner. That's a win, buddy.

Magical energy so I'm right. Read the comic. M

Krypto scene happened in another comic entirely not that one. You're wrong.

Take your own advice.

It's an objective fact. You saying its a low showing is subjective. Quit running from facts.

It didn't last and just one of them got back. I wouldn't call that a win but then I remember you're like bizarro.

Black adam is made out of magical energy?

Oh, you're talking about that time in infinite crisis?

It's a low showing, if you actually read Prime's appearances you would know it. Come on, go and read.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
It didn't last and just one of them got back. I wouldn't call that a win but then I remember you're like bizarro.

Black adam is made out of magical energy?

Oh, you're talking about that time in infinite crisis?

It's a low showing, if you actually read Prime's appearances you would know it. Come on, go and read. so putting him in a prison wasn't a win ? Wow.


His punches were magical.


Yes, in which he bled. More proof.

No, you saying low is your opinion. It is an objective fact. It happened. I deal in facts.

Isn't Juggernaut magical as well? Ruby Gem and all that?

So even if BA had magical energy running through his fists (which he does) - surely Juggy has the same?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Isn't Juggernaut magical as well? Ruby Gem and all that?

So even if BA had magical energy running through his fists (which he does) - surely Juggy has the same?
I cant BElieve i read the whole thing!
Yeah, Juggernaut was magical last time i checked slash since forever.
And, i guess i should have made a Juggs/BA thread.

Originally posted by quanchi112
so putting him in a prison wasn't a win ? Wow.


His punches were magical.


Yes, in which he bled. More proof.

No, you saying low is your opinion. It is an objective fact. It happened. I deal in facts. He scaped it, and almost immediately from the earth's perspective. So no.

Yeah, Prime resisted the magic part of the punches. But the strength behind those strikes was still the same, what you're suggesting doesn't make any sense.

Sure, he still wrecked shit later on.

It was a low showing, Prime took it to more powerful teams and was just fine.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Isn't Juggernaut magical as well? Ruby Gem and all that?

So even if BA had magical energy running through his fists (which he does) - surely Juggy has the same?

Juggs won't be able to hurt Prime at all and Prime's punches will ignore the forcefield.

That's the point I'm trying to make - whatever argument one makes for BA, would also apply to Juggy.

Wait a minute. Are we determining that Jugs can't hurt Prime based off ONE showing? Are we forgetting about the other showings where Prime was hurt by either someone on or below Jugs level. The majority of Prime showings.

Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute. Are we determining that Jugs can't hurt Prime based off ONE showing? Are we forgetting about the other showings where Prime was hurt by either someone on or below Jugs level. The majority of Prime showings.

The majority of MAGIC showings, I think.

We know magic has little effect on Prime.

We know Juggy, is, well, magic.

So I guess the issue is, would he have the same effect of punching him as BA did when punching him - both beings who got their strength/fist durability from magical sources.

Then there's his Mordru showing, and Zauriel's sword (which was made by the Presence) etc...

Originally posted by Surtur
The problem is Prime was hit by people stronger then Superboy and not harmed. Prime was all over the place when it came to durability.



He hit Prime with magically amped punches yes. Black Adam's magically amped punches>>>>Connor Kent punching you one would think.

Or an amped up Daxamite.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That isn't how it worked. Magical means he is highly resisted due to the resistance to magic.

Again, the point was made. Far less has ko'd him and those punches weren't magical. 2+2=4.

Superboy doesn't possess magical punches therefore prime is less resistant. Black Adam though far more powerful throes magical punches and that's why he can resist them.

Simple.

The punch was enhanced by magic. That was it. Even he had not done that it would of still had force behind it superior to what Superboy can dish out. Since it did have magic added, this just meant it had even more oomph them normal.

This was not a magic missile he fired at him. So do you see the crazy lengths you have to go to in order to make Connor hurting him seem legit?

Also this is moot anyways, we had people of non magical nature who are stronger then Superboy attack Prime and not do anything to him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The majority of MAGIC showings, I think.

We know magic has little effect on Prime.

We know Juggy, is, well, magic.

So I guess the issue is, would he have the same effect of punching him as BA did when punching him - both beings who got their strength/fist durability from magical sources.

Then there's his Mordru showing, and Zauriel's sword (which was made by the Presence) etc...

So Juggernaut punches are magical? Prove it. Would Juggernaut punches have a huge affect on, let's say, Superman?

Prime wins

Originally posted by carver9
So Juggernaut punches are magical? Prove it. Would Juggernaut punches have a huge affect on, let's say, Superman?

Well, I was merely extending the arguments that had been made, with respect to Black Adam.

Juggernaut is NOT a mutant. He does not get his powers from cybernetics, or serums, or alien physiology. Do you know where/how he gets his powers from? Cytorrak.

Do you know who else invokes his power? Strange. Sorceror Supreme.

Do you know what his forcefield is? Hint: It's magical in nature.

His fists?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, I was merely extending the arguments that had been made, with respect to Black Adam.

Juggernaut is NOT a mutant. He does not get his powers from cybernetics, or serums, or alien physiology. Do you know where/how he gets his powers from? Cytorrak.

Do you know who else invokes his power? Strange. Sorceror Supreme.

Do you know what his forcefield is? Hint: It's magical in nature.

His fists?

I know exactly where his power come from but NOTHING has been said of his punches being magical. That's like me saying Hulk punches are radiation. It doesn't work like that. Do you have anything showing Juggernaut punches being magical in nature because Thor is completely immune to magical based attacks so Jugs punches should be as impactful but...

You need some proof bro.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2zthsn9.jpg


That being said Prime wins

Originally posted by carver9
I know exactly where his power come from but NOTHING has been said of his punches being magical. That's like me saying Hulk punches are radiation. It doesn't work like that. Do you have anything showing Juggernaut punches being magical in nature because Thor is completely immune to magical based attacks so Jugs punches should be as impactful but...

You need some proof bro.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/70453/1512302-1063816_spider_man_016_19_super.jpg

Magic coursing through his veins...

.

Originally posted by carver9
I know exactly where his power come from but NOTHING has been said of his punches being magical. That's like me saying Hulk punches are radiation. It doesn't work like that. Do you have anything showing Juggernaut punches being magical in nature because Thor is completely immune to magical based attacks so Jugs punches should be as impactful but...

You need some proof bro.

Plus by this logic no Kryptonian should ever be able to harm another Kryptonian. In fact, two Kryptonians fighting should power them up. After all, they are punching with yellow sun radiation obviously.

Juggernauts armor and shit are magical so i dont see how people can say his attacks arent

Originally posted by carver9
I know exactly where his power come from but NOTHING has been said of his punches being magical. That's like me saying Hulk punches are radiation. It doesn't work like that. Do you have anything showing Juggernaut punches being magical in nature because Thor is completely immune to magical based attacks so Jugs punches should be as impactful but...

You need some proof bro. So Black Adam's punches aren't magical either. You can't have it both ways.

Originally posted by Surtur
Plus by this logic no Kryptonian should ever be able to harm another Kryptonian. In fact, two Kryptonians fighting should power them up. After all, they are punching with yellow sun radiation obviously. It isnt the same at all

Originally posted by Surtur
Plus by this logic no Kryptonian should ever be able to harm another Kryptonian. In fact, two Kryptonians fighting should power them up. After all, they are punching with yellow sun radiation obviously.

Woah, let's not get crazy.

When I get punched in the mouth, I don't amp off the cheeseburger the girl ate.

This is becoming more complicated then it should be. Black Adam, just like Captain Marvel, gets his powers from a magical source. Their fists do not normally radiate magic. This is why we've seen Cap flat out have to enhance his fists and make them all glowy in order for him to sucker punch Superman. This is why we've had to see BA charge up his body/fists with magic lightning when he wants to deliver punches above his normal levels. This is why Superman can do things like shake the hand of Captain Marvel without getting zapped by magic.

A normal punch from either of these people is not specifically a magic attack. But if one of them decides to charge magic into a punch it doesn't mean reality suddenly shifts and it becomes a 100% magical attack with nothing physical behind it. Unless BA's arms literally turned into pure magic lightning. Which would of been a sight far too awesome for me to forget.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Woah, let's not get crazy.

When I get punched in the mouth, I don't amp off the cheeseburger the girl ate. You don't? I thought that's how it worked all along.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/70453/1512302-1063816_spider_man_016_19_super.jpg

Magic coursing through his veins...


SMH...His PUNCHES has never been stated as being magical based. How far are we going with this? Is Wonder Woman, Hercules, Thor fists, Ares, etc...punches, are they magical based as well? Let's not just make this a Juggernaut thing. What about Nul, Kuurth, and all the other hammer wielders during fear itself? Were their magical based?

Originally posted by carver9
SMH...His PUNCHES has never been stated as being magical based. How far are we going with this? Is Wonder Woman, Hercules, Thor fists, Ares, etc...punches, are they magical based as well? Let's not just make this a Juggernaut thing. What about Nul, Kuurth, and all the other hammer welders during fear itself? We're their magical based? #carved

Originally posted by carver9
SMH...His PUNCHES has never been stated as being magical based. How far are we going with this? Is Wonder Woman, Hercules, Thor fists, Ares, etc...punches, are they magical based as well? Let's not just make this a Juggernaut thing. What about Nul, Kuurth, and all the other hammer wielders during fear itself? Were their magical based?

....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
.... His knuckles, armor and helmet are all magical no?

Diana is MADE out of magic. I guess Superman withstood a magical blow here.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67985/1246585-wonder_woman_v2__219___page_14.jpg

Let me post some Thor fist scans vs people faces and see who endured magical blows. One sec.

Juggernaut may as well be made of primary Adamantium or Caps shield, the way his powers work.

TBH, I don't think he's strong enough to really injure SBP, but SBP isn't damaging him any more then he'd break Wolverine's bones.

Carver is actually making a good point right now.

Originally posted by Mindset
Carver is actually making a good point right now. Sometimes Carver is right.

But Darksaint was created to bust on Carver no matter his opinion.

Carver could be arguing Superman beats Hulk and Darksaint would rush in to bust on him. Just the way she goes.


These Carvbusters aren't always correct

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Sometimes Carver is right.

But Darksaint was created to bust on Carver no matter his opinion.

Carver could be arguing Superman beats Hulk and Darksaint would rush in to bust on him. Just the way she goes.


These Carvbusters aren't always correct Yea, it looks like DS just likes to bust on Carver.

I almost wish I never supported Carver, I don't want to get busted on too.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Juggernauts armor and shit are magical so i dont see how people can say his attacks arent

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/juggernauthelmetxforce4.jpg

Also, Shatterstar cut off his helmet with his magical swords. Granted Juggs w/o force field.

Idk, it's very well within Prime's capabilities to harm this Juggernaut while in turn I don't see Cain delivering any real damage to Prime.

And that's leaving the magic out of the equation.

Originally posted by The Nuul
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/juggernauthelmetxforce4.jpg

Also, Shatterstar cut off his helmet with his magical swords. Granted Juggs w/o force field.

The helmets never been unbreakable. Just his skin and costume.

Juggernaut's force-field is magical/mystical. This has been confirmed on-panel. Juggernaut's force-field envelops his entire body. Therefore, when he punches someone, his fist is covered by the force-field. Vis-a-vis, his punches are magical.

That was easy.

Originally posted by Galan007
Juggernaut's force-field is magical/mystical. This has been stated on-panel. Juggernaut's force-field envelops his entire body. When he punches someone, he his fist is wrapped in the force-field. Vis-a-vis, his punches are magical.

That was easy. No one punches with a forcefield, don't be a buster.

Originally posted by Galan007
Juggernaut's force-field is magical/mystical. This has been confirmed on-panel. Juggernaut's force-field envelops his entire body. When he punches someone, his fist is wrapped in the force-field. Vis-a-vis, his punches are magical.

That was easy. Nobody asked you scantard

Originally posted by iceman24567
Nobody asked you scantard #hahgottem

Originally posted by iceman24567
Nobody asked you scantard

Fight them irl Galan.

Nah, I'll just hold it in and beat the shit out of my dog later... Pull a Mungi, if you will.

Oh.. so you're into canadian shit?

I respected you

@Galan...

Do you have the scan where it states his force field is made out of magic because Juggernaut said that his force field is made out of boundless energy per what I've seen.

Thor uses Mjolnir to negate all magical/mystical energy on the field, which renders Juggernaut force-fieldless and vulnerable to attacks. When Thor's magic-negation cocoon wore off, Juggernaut's force-field immediately returned:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127414_10.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127415_11.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127416_12.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127417_13.jpg
-Thor #429

Juggernaut tells is what his force field is made out of.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Unique/Force%20Field/UCXM013-02.jpg

He never said anything about mystical. He calls it a wave of FORCE.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thor uses Mjolnir to negate all magical/mystical energy on the field, which renders Juggernaut force-fieldless and vulnerable to attacks. When Thor's magic-negation cocoon wore off, Juggernaut's force-field immediately returned:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127414_10.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127415_11.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127416_12.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127417_13.jpg
-Thor #429 srsly

Originally posted by Galan007
Thor uses Mjolnir to negate all magical/mystical energy on the field, which renders Juggernaut force-fieldless and vulnerable to attacks. When Thor's magic-negation cocoon wore off, Juggernaut's force-field immediately returned:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127414_10.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127415_11.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127416_12.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23127417_13.jpg
-Thor #429 I never got this.

Why wouldn't Juggs become human?

Seems like Thor took away his mystical power. He never identified it as just his force field. That's what I got from it. He also said Juggernaut isnt unstoppable anymore. Juggernaut unstoppability doesn't relate to his force field. To each his own I guess.

Carver, when Thor launched that magic-negation spell, Juggernaut's force-field was removed, and he became vulnerable to attack. When Thor's spell wore off, Juggernaut's force-field immediately returned. This obviously means the force-field is magical in nature.

Don't be purposefully obtuse just because you're wrong. srsly

Originally posted by Mindset
I never got this.

Why wouldn't Juggs become human?

I don't think the writer understood his powers. Seems like he thought Juggs ff IS his invulnerability, and he's just a brick without it.

Characters with strong tp and magical powers are Juggs weakness.

Originally posted by Mindset
I never got this.

Why wouldn't Juggs become human? It seemed like the spell only negated Juggernaut's force-field. That's why Juggs could still rock Thor with his punches, and also endure Thor's melee. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Carver, when Thor launched that magic-negation spell, Juggernaut's force-field was removed, and he became vulnerable to attack. When Thor's spell wore off, Juggernaut's force-field immediately returned. This means the force-field is obviously magical in nature.

Don't be purposefully obtuse just because you're wrong. srsly How dare you.

If anything, carver9 is being purposefully oblong!

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/525777375909273600/ohX8voDj_400x400.jpeg

Originally posted by Galan007
It seemed like the spell only negated Juggernaut's force-field. That's why Juggs could still rock Thor with his punches, and also endure Thor's melee. /shrug

Pretty much.

It's the only story that assumes he basically walks around with his ff up all the time, and is just a really tough brick without it.

Either way, he's not getting KOed by straight physical force, any more then Logan's skeleton is getting broken.

Originally posted by cdtm
Pretty much.

It's the only story that assumes he basically walks around with his ff up all the time, and is just a really tough brick without it.

Either way, he's not getting KOed by straight physical force, any more then Logan's skeleton is getting broken.
Tell that to onslaught.

So is Juggernaut actually a cyborg now?

Or has he been retconned into being a gamma accident?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Sometimes Carver is right.

But Darksaint was created to bust on Carver no matter his opinion.

Carver could be arguing Superman beats Hulk and Darksaint would rush in to bust on him. Just the way she goes.


These Carvbusters aren't always correct

I...I can't help it, sorry guys.

Some members have an anti-Marvel bias.

Some, an anti-DC bias.

I have an anti-Carver bias.

^^^Haha, that was good!

Originally posted by Reflassshh
He scaped it, and almost immediately from the earth's perspective. So no.

Yeah, Prime resisted the magic part of the punches. But the strength behind those strikes was still the same, what you're suggesting doesn't make any sense.

Sure, he still wrecked shit later on.

It was a low showing, Prime took it to more powerful teams and was just fine. But lost. If someone is ko'd and gets up ten minutes later they still lost. Flashes beat him. Undeniable.

No, since superboy and others far weaker ko'd the shit out of him. Magic he has a high resistance but Zairiel has hurt him.

So ?

It is evidence. You saying its low is subjective.m a fact is a fact. Quit being emotional over it.

A ko is a ko, there's not much to debate on that...

Originally posted by quanchi112


No, since superboy and others far weaker ko'd the shit out of him.


That's true. In that one single example, Superboy and weaker characters definitely KO'd the crap out of him.

Problem is, Adam failing the same is one of multiple examples. Off the top of my head, mainstream Sodam Yat, future Sodam Yat getting help from two flashes (Not to mention one of three LOSH groups), and the Guardians have all failed to KO him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
But lost. If someone is ko'd and gets up ten minutes later they still lost. Flashes beat him. Undeniable.

No, since superboy and others far weaker ko'd the shit out of him. Magic he has a high resistance but Zairiel has hurt him.

So ?

It is evidence. You saying its low is subjective.m a fact is a fact. Quit being emotional over it. Bfr and Ko is the same now? Ok..

And others far stronger have failed to do so. In fact, the instances you're bringing up are the minority of his overall showings.

It is a low showing, stop denying it. You were wrong, don't cry over it, it ain't nobody's death

quan will keep using low end showings until we drown him out

Yeah, we should drown him. Like literally.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Bfr and Ko is the same now? Ok..

And others far stronger have failed to do so. In fact, the instances you're bringing up are the minority of his overall showings.

It is a low showing, stop denying it. You were wrong, don't cry over it, it ain't nobody's death I never said they were the same. They are two options for winning. I use a bfr you cry and I use a ok and you cry foul.




Krypto has hurt him. Super boy has hurt him. Zauriel has hurt him. Etc. I have given plenty of examples.

The word low is subjective whereas I use hard facts. Continue to run from them.

Juggs wins.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Yeah, we should drown him. Like literally. Come and try it, nerd.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said they were the same. They are two options for winning. I use a bfr you cry and I use a ok and you cry foul.




Krypto has hurt him. Super boy has hurt him. Zauriel has hurt him. Etc. I have given plenty of examples.

The word low is subjective whereas I use hard facts. Continue to run from them.

Juggs wins. You're treating them as the same. I don't even know what that second sentence means.

Hah, keep lowballing. Keep doing what everybody expects from you.

Jugs loses hard, have a nice day.

When did Zauriel hurt him?

I think he's talking about SCWar when Prime was weakened and the heroes ganged up on him. I don't recall Zauriel specifically hurting him though.

I don't recall it, only the Infinite Crisis bit where he tanks his sword.

Which was created by the Presence, so hardly a common blade. I mean its no Shatterstar.....

I don`t know much about dc,but if there is a version of superboy that could beat Juggs?I would be very surprised.

Superboy Prime was essentially a Silver Age Kryptonian with extreme anger issues lol

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I don't recall it, only the Infinite Crisis bit where he tanks his sword.

Which was created by the Presence, so hardly a common blade. I mean its no Shatterstar..... If Zauriel did hurt him however and Quan wasn't just lying would that mean anything though? Or if Prime tanked him for instance?

I mean would you say Zauriel falls under magical like his sword?

He's basically a Hawkman replacement. I've never seen his weapon do anything an nth weapon couldn't do.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
If Zauriel did hurt him however and Quan wasn't just lying would that mean anything though? Or if Prime tanked him for instance?

I mean would you say Zauriel falls under magical like his sword?


http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Zauriel_%28New_Earth%29



It cut dimensions? Didn't see that one.

If it's like a poor man's Persuaders Axe, then I'd be inclined to call SBP tanking it pis (As I do Mon El tanking Persuaders Axe.)

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superboy Prime was essentially a Silver Age Kryptonian with extreme anger issues lol
And tantrums. Cant forget the tantrums.

Originally posted by cdtm
That's true. In that one single example, Superboy and weaker characters definitely KO'd the crap out of him.

Problem is, Adam failing the same is one of multiple examples. Off the top of my head, mainstream Sodam Yat, future Sodam Yat getting help from two flashes (Not to mention one of three LOSH groups), and the Guardians have all failed to KO him. Not saying that the teeth Titans beat him for a majority but it did happen. Still counts.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
You're treating them as the same. I don't even know what that second sentence means.

Hah, keep lowballing. Keep doing what everybody expects from you.

Jugs loses hard, have a nice day. Ko was autocorrected into ok.

That's your opinion. I only deal in facts. Leave your emotions out of this.

No, he is more durable. Juggs beats him.

In 90% of these threads, facts give way to conjecture, opinion and yes, personal bias and favoritism. For everyone.

Originally posted by riv6672
In 90% of these threads, facts give way to conjecture, opinion and yes, personal bias and favoritism. For everyone. Ultimately, the decision or the conclusion one debater comes to is subjective but unlike a lot of other debaters I don't dismiss showings or subjectively decide what counts as highs or lows. They are all facts and as long as they are canon it becomes evidence.

Do you have the instance of Zauriel hurting SBP? I only recall the Crisis incidence

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Do you have the instance of Zauriel hurting SBP? I only recall the Crisis incidence Quan doesn't even read comics and if he did he doesn't now.

Though the hypothetical of Zauriel hurting Prime is interesting

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Quan doesn't even read comics and if he did he doesn't now.

Though the hypothetical of Zauriel hurting Prime is interesting I did and do so here and there now. I just don't focus on them like I used to. What makes you think I never read comics ?

Zauriel did slash Superboy Prime. Damage him is the questionable part but he did attack Prime. Think Prime screamed out in pain after said attack.

This the scene you guys talking about?

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/tofastforgl.jpg
(I don't have the previous scan handy, will try to find it)

Looks like you're missing a scan toots

Originally posted by carver9
Zauriel did slash Superboy Prime. Damage him is the questionable part but he did attack Prime. Think Prime screamed out in pain after said attack.

That's the event I am recalling, but I also recall SBP tanking it, rather than what you're suggesting.

That sword in question WAS created by the Presence, so its hardly a random sword though lol. I'd have expected him to get hurt, so his reaction was all the more impressive.

Is Zauriel magic then akin to his sword? Or at least made of magic?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ko was autocorrected into ok.

That's your opinion. I only deal in facts. Leave your emotions out of this.

No, he is more durable. Juggs beats him. A rock is more durable than you, who would win in a fight?

Zauriel cut his way to Silver City with his flaming sword in Day of Judgement. Under the same writer.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Is Zauriel magic then akin to his sword? Or at least made of magic?

His sword is.

Zauriel himself? I'd wager he's a cyborg.

Also the scene of SBP tanking Zauriel sword was in his oneshot in SCW where he was actually weakened.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
His sword is.

Zauriel himself? I'd wager he's a cyborg. By your sarcasm I'd say magic.

Oh sorry, honest question, were you serious? I do actually find it difficult to tell.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
A rock is more durable than you, who would win in a fight? Horrible analogy as the rock isn't a being capable of rational thought. A rock man versus a human wins.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh sorry, honest question, were you serious? I do actually find it difficult to tell. Why would that not have been a serious question? Were you expecting a penis punchline inserting in there?

Just curious about what people think of Zauriel's base form. I mean everything about him is magic, so maybe the obviousness of it threw you?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Horrible analogy as the rock isn't a being capable of rational thought. A rock man versus a human wins. No it's not. A rock can't hurt you and Juggs can't hurt Prime.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's the event I am recalling, but I also recall SBP tanking it, rather than what you're suggesting.

That sword in question WAS created by the Presence, so its hardly a random sword though lol. I'd have expected him to get hurt, so his reaction was all the more impressive.

Yeah...it wasn't that bad if bad at all. I just wanted to throw out there that Z did slash at Prime.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
No it's not. A rock can't hurt you and Juggs can't hurt Prime. A rock can most certainly hurt a human being. What planet do you live on that it cannot ?





Not based off the evidence. You selectively dismiss evidence which is bias.

In the real world, where rocks can't move hence can't hurt humans by themselves.

Which evidence?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Looks like you're missing a scan toots

Read the text below the picture you lazy bastard

I stand corrected there is no previous scans to the one I posted. That's from Infinite Crisis #7 and we never saw Zauriel connect with the sword there. All we see of their "fight" is just that one panel

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/tofastforgl.jpg

I also double checked Tales of the Sinestro Corps - Superman Prime #1 and this is the only scene I could see between them where he used the sword

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/pic007_zpsyldjttb8.jpg

Originally posted by Reflassshh
In the real world, where rocks can't move hence can't hurt humans by themselves.

Which evidence? iThats why I said in my first post your analogy failed. Juggernaut can move, think, and attack. Rocks can't. Horrible analogy. Rocks hurt people by the way.

Reread my earlier posts when I broke it down.

Originally posted by quanchi112
iThats why I said in my first post your analogy failed. Juggernaut can move, think, and attack. Rocks can't. Horrible analogy. Rocks hurt people by the way.

Reread my earlier posts when I broke it down. Instead of lowballing, why don't you provide scans proving that Cain wouldn't be just a hard rock in Prime's way?

I don't see either of these guys hurting the other, but i see SBP turning Cain into a pinball.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Instead of lowballing, why don't you provide scans proving that Cain wouldn't be just a hard rock in Prime's way? Watch him throw down with WW Hulk or so. There is no low balling there are only facts. Prime was pummeled by far less in embarrassing ko fashion.

Lol so carver and quan misremembered?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol so carver and quan misremembered?

You know Carver, his #1 go to tactic is "I forgot about that" of coarse this is after he has debated viciously and lost. His "iForgot" is his scape goat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Superboy scarred him for life and krypto caused him to bleed. Juggs wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch him throw down with WW Hulk or so. There is no low balling there are only facts. Prime was pummeled by far less in embarrassing ko fashion. So your arguments revolve around Prime's lows and Juggs' highs?

Better luck next time, mate.