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Neutral setting.

No amp/prep time.

The two duke it out in the following categories.

1. Sabers
2. Force
3. Sorcery
4. All-out

Zannah wins.

Going with Wyyrlok, being honest. Zannah's got more exposure, but he's really impressed me as much or more in virtually every way.

Wyyrlok. Dude held his own against a reborn Krayt, even bringing him to his knees via psychic assault. Anyone who can legitimately contend with reborn Krayt on even footing is decidedly above Zannah's pay grade imo.

Originally posted by Stigma
Neutral setting.

No amp/prep time.

The two duke it out in the following categories.

1. Sabers
2. Force
3. Sorcery
4. All-out

Sabers- I say Zannah but I'm not against the belief of Wyyrlock winning.

Force- Wyyrolck

Sorcery- Wyyrlock

All out. Wyyrlock

Zannah may take sabers. Wyyrlok wins the rest.

W went toe to toe and held his own against a pissed off reborn Krayt. He's clearly an extremely gifted swordsman.

How does that suggest he'd beat Zannah?

Did I say it did?

You're 0-2 today... What was your concentration in university again?

Uh, yes. In the 4th post of the thread?

Also concentration in university? What the heck?

Damn, you got me. mmm

ONBAMgTC4dw

Your mom tbh

My mum is Darth Vader??

NO! That's not true, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

Originally posted by Nephthys
How does that suggest he'd beat Zannah?

The fact that he went toe to toe with Krayt for a substantial period of time.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
W went toe to toe and held his own against a pissed off reborn Krayt. He's clearly an extremely gifted swordsman.

I'm pretty sure he only clashed blades with Krayt for what, a page, by the end of which he was deprived of one of his two blades.

It's not that amazing.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm pretty sure he only clashed blades with Krayt for what, a page, by the end of which he was deprived of one of his two blades.

It's not that amazing.

Krayt was the one wielding two blades actually, but yes, it was just one page.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm pretty sure he only clashed blades with Krayt for what, a page, by the end of which he was deprived of one of his two blades.

It's not that amazing.

He only used one blade through the entire fight, to be fair.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm pretty sure he only clashed blades with Krayt for what, a page, by the end of which he was deprived of one of his two blades.

It's not that amazing.

A page could easily be 30 secs- 1 minute in comic book time though

Anyway Wyyrlok in all 3.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
A page could easily be 30 secs- 1 minute in comic book time though

Anyway Wyyrlok in all 3.

Or 12 seconds.

I mean it's pretty obvious Zannah could last as long.

My bad, it seemed like Wyyrlok was brandishing two blades briefly. The second red blade is Krayt's, though, obviously.

Anyway, Zannah might win sabers but I don't see how an argument can be made for any other round.

She's much more powerful than Wyyrlok and is a better sorceress. Wyyrlok has no feats like overpowering Bane in TK or blocking the Thought Bomb. And Zannah has a shitton of sorcery from Nadd.

I suggest you buy some glasses, that was pretty easy.

Neph where do you rank Bane and Zannah on the powerscale force and sabers wise if:

Top
Yoda
Sidious

High:
Mace
Dooku
Anakin

High-Mid:
Kenobi
Maul
Plo Koon
Savage
Ventress

Mid:
Kit Fisto
Agen

Higher than Darth Wyyrlok.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Higher than Darth Wyyrlok.

Higher than Krayt then?

I think they are more powerful than him, though not overpoweringly so. I think that in general, Bane is a stronger swordsman than he is. Zannah's focus is not on swordplay, but she has the ability to compete with Krayt's speed and strength as she could Bane's and her defense is excellent and poses a true challenge for anyone to overcome.

Originally posted by Nephthys
She's much more powerful than Wyyrlok and is a better sorceress. Wyyrlok has no feats like overpowering Bane in TK or blocking the Thought Bomb. And Zannah has a shitton of sorcery from Nadd.


She's not "much more powerful" than somebody who's competed with Krayt in raw Force power, who is frankly more powerful than Bane as well.

The blocking Thought Bomb thing was in the original comics which has been retconned. Otherwise Bane would be telekinetically moving moons.

Also, "overpowering Bane"?

Originally posted by SunRazer
She's not "much more powerful" than somebody who's competed with Krayt in raw Force power, who is frankly more powerful than Bane as well.

The blocking Thought Bomb thing was in the original comics which has been retconned. Otherwise Bane would be telekinetically moving moons.

Also, "overpowering Bane"?

Meh. Krayt blocked Wyyrloks two-handed lightning with one hand then when Wyyrlok hurled rocks at him he seized hold of them through Wyyrloks grip. Wyyrlok was decisively weaker imo. Even the Memory Walk had Krayt appear to fake being affected by it or at least blitz the shit out of him.

Uh no, she blocks it in the book as well.

She hits him with a Force Wave that smashes him into a wall despite him throwing up a shield to block it. For contexts sake, she surprised him from the side but he was able to still put up a Force shield in time and Bane had charged up his power before hand. At the least they are equals imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Meh. Krayt blocked Wyyrloks two-handed lightning with one hand then when Wyyrlok hurled rocks at him he seized hold of them through Wyyrloks grip. Wyyrlok was decisively weaker imo. Even the Memory Walk had Krayt appear to fake being affected by it or at least blitz the shit out of him.

Uh no, she blocks it in the book as well.

She hits him with a Force Wave that smashes him into a wall despite him throwing up a shield to block it. For contexts sake, she surprised him from the side but he was able to still put up a Force shield in time and Bane had charged up his power before hand. At the least they are equals imo.

1. Of course Wyyrlok is weaker, but that doesn't matter considering Bane is weaker than Krayt as well.

2. The ritual firestorm, or the Thought Bomb?

3. Obviously the context matters, because the text makes it clear that neither Bane nor Zannah can directly overpower the other with telekinesis.

1) He isn't though. Regardless, Bane has superior TK and lightning than Wyyrlok and overall better feats demonstrating his power than him.

2) Both. Not that it matters, the comic version actually hasn't been retconned. It's still valid. I did kind of goof and meant the Force Storm. But Zannah did shrug off the effects of the Bomb.

3) Fair enough. My point stands, Wyyrlok is inferior to both Bane and Zannah in tk.

1. Bane hasn't replicated anything like what Krayt did to Cade, which is an immense showing of power and mastery.

Wyyrlok competing with Krayt (Bane's superior) means Bane's TK and Lightning aren't superior.

2. Not really. And it's not an actual power feat for the Thought Bomb. I'm pretty sure the storm block got retconned out of existence, unless it happened in the novel as well?

3. I'd say competing with Krayt > competing with Bane, as far as telekinesis goes. Sure, Zannah might have been a match for Bane, but Krayt's also above Bane in raw power, meaning that Wyyrlok's competition with him puts him above Zannah.

I'm like barely starting Fate of the Jedi, but didn't he also withstand a telekinetic blast by Abeloth? That's miles ahead of anything Bane has ever shown, and Zannah and Bane would get stomped by force drain

1. Wyyrlok didn't compete with him. Krayt easily blocked his Force attacks and merely threw some rocks at Wyyrlok in retaliation. At no point did Wyyrlok show that he was comparable to Krayt at all.

Also Bane can utterly disintegrate a dozen opponents at once with lightning and TK, that's better than tossing Cade back once.

2. I meant to write Force Storm so that is my bad. What I meant to say was "nah, Zannah blocks the Force Storm in the book".

3. Wyyrlok never competed with Krayt in TK. Also that's terrible logic, you're assuming that Bane and Zannah couldn't compete as well or better than Wyyrlok did. Even if Krayt > Bane (which isn't true), Krayt is also > Wyyrlok. So in no way does your estimation indicate Wyyrlok > Bane and Zannah.

Bane never disintegrated anything off nexus with TK lmao. He was amped x2 by the Orbalisks and the Tython nexus, off a Darkside world he can break boxes and throw couches though.

Still on ignore, lol. Keep yapping at thin air sweetums. I don't give a shit.

Keep losing the debate against Shootingnova

bzzzzz bzzzzzzzzzzz bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

And nice ignoring points to suit your bias as well . Ride Karpashyns nuts harder plz

Originally posted by Nephthys
1. Wyyrlok didn't compete with him. Krayt easily blocked his Force attacks and merely threw some rocks at Wyyrlok in retaliation. At no point did Wyyrlok show that he was comparable to Krayt at all.

Also Bane can utterly disintegrate a dozen opponents at once with lightning and TK, that's better than tossing Cade back once.

2. I meant to write Force Storm so that is my bad. What I meant to say was "nah, Zannah blocks the Force Storm in the book".

3. Wyyrlok never competed with Krayt in TK. Also that's terrible logic, you're assuming that Bane and Zannah couldn't compete as well or better than Wyyrlok did. Even if Krayt > Bane (which isn't true), Krayt is also > Wyyrlok. So in no way does your estimation indicate Wyyrlok > Bane and Zannah.

1. How is that not competitive? They clashed for a fair amount of time in Force.

2. Under the amplifications of Orbalisks, Belia Darzu's holocron, and Darzu's Fortress, sure. Still not better than Krayt's Shatterpoint + Dark Transfer on Cade.

3. He competed in raw power, which is sufficient.

I'm more arguing that Zannah isn't more powerful, not that Wyyrlok is more powerful, though he could be because I see Krayt's edge over Bane as larger than his edge over Wyyrlok's.

This ABC logic is pretty annoying.

Wyyrlok > Zannah in Illusions because Wyyrlok brought Krayt to his knees. Lot of people seem to forget that at the start of the comic Wyyrlok states that his biggest advantage over A'sharad is that he knows Krayt. More so than any of the other one Sith, in fact if memory serves me right the Crosscurrent/Riptide novels state that Krayt has a telepathic connection with the First Wyyrlok(I admittedly don't know if this is passed on to the 2nd and third generation of Wyyrloks) But yeah, knowing A'sharad fears(Aurra killing his dad and things like that) Kinda helped, tremendously. Having such intimate knowledge about his Lord gave Wyyrlok a big, big edge against Krayt.

In contrast Zannah's illusion have brought out the biggest fears in her victims. Set Harth, Darovit and the rest. So, as an Illusionist I'd place Zannah above Wyyrlok just based on how much more developed and brutal her illusions are.

I assume that Wyyrlok held his own against Krayt for a decent amount of time, but i hardly believe that he forced Krayt on the defensive or anything like that. I'm not overly impressed with Wyyrlok as a duelist, so I'd pretty much give it to Zannah. Better mastery of her form and she has a good amount of knowledge on combat to know when to switch to a counter-offense or to a defense. Not to mention she's much faster and has some strength(not that much but i digress)

I'd give the victory to Zannah, 6-7/10 In my humble opinion. Her illusions are far more developed, her defense and counter-offensive impressive me more and her force powers are somewhat more lethal. But this is just my opinion.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
This ABC logic is pretty annoying.

Wyyrlok > Zannah in Illusions because Wyyrlok brought Krayt to his knees. Lot of people seem to forget that at the start of the comic Wyyrlok states that his biggest advantage over A'sharad is that he knows Krayt. More so than any of the other one Sith, in fact if memory serves me right the Crosscurrent/Riptide novels state that Krayt has a telepathic connection with the First Wyyrlok(I admittedly don't know if this is passed on to the 2nd and third generation of Wyyrloks) But yeah, knowing A'sharad fears(Aurra killing his dad and things like that) Kinda helped, tremendously. Having such intimate knowledge about his Lord gave Wyyrlok a big, big edge against Krayt.

In contrast Zannah's illusion have brought out the biggest fears in her victims. Set Harth, Darovit and the rest. So, as an Illusionist I'd place Zannah above Wyyrlok just based on how much more developed and brutal her illusions are.

I assume that Wyyrlok held his own against Krayt for a decent amount of time, but i hardly believe that he forced Krayt on the defensive or anything like that. I'm not overly impressed with Wyyrlok as a duelist, so I'd pretty much give it to Zannah. Better mastery of her form and she has a good amount of knowledge on combat to know when to switch to a counter-offense or to a defense. Not to mention she's much faster and has some strength(not that much but i digress)

I'd give the victory to Zannah, 6-7/10 In my humble opinion. Her illusions are far more developed, her defense and counter-offensive impressive me more and her force powers are somewhat more lethal. But this is just my opinion. https://33.media.tumblr.com/3d43e5a8da50803c8880a4bcd630f966/tumblr_n2cp2vQHFh1rl6ypdo1_400.gif

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. How is that not competitive? They clashed for a fair amount of time in Force.

2. Under the amplifications of Orbalisks, Belia Darzu's holocron, and Darzu's Fortress, sure. Still not better than Krayt's Shatterpoint + Dark Transfer on Cade.

3. He competed in raw power, which is sufficient.

I'm more arguing that Zannah isn't more powerful, not that Wyyrlok is more powerful, though he could be because I see Krayt's edge over Bane as larger than his edge over Wyyrlok's.

1. Wyyrlok attacked him with lightning which Krayt easily blocked. Wyyrlok attacked Krayt with TK which Krayt easily stopped and turned back on him.

How is any of that Wyyrlok demonstrating anything beyond what Bane and Zannah could do? Bane could attack Krayt with lightning and throw some rocks at him. Wyyrlok demonstrated nothing that could be called competitive. If Krayt had shown some actual effort in blocking Wyyrloks attacks then maybe. But he didn't.

Remember the whole point is demonstrating lightning and tk on Bane's level. Wyyrlok merely attacking Krayt with those things isn't him doing that, you understand.

2. Bane disintegrated a pair of beast riders and turned their 20 meter drexl into a smoking husk with one hand. And in DoE he was similarly capable of disintegrating armored opponents even whilst exhausted. He's also disintegrated rock. And you can lowball Bane's tk if you want but the fact is that he performed that feat multiple times easily.

3. At no point did he compete in raw power.

You're seriously underestimating Bane. If you showed me some actual feats suggesting Wyyrlok is even as powerful as Bane I'd consider your point more, but all you've done is talk about the fight where Krayt was clearly much stronger than him.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
This ABC logic is pretty annoying.

Wyyrlok > Zannah in Illusions because Wyyrlok brought Krayt to his knees. Lot of people seem to forget that at the start of the comic Wyyrlok states that his biggest advantage over A'sharad is that he knows Krayt. More so than any of the other one Sith, in fact if memory serves me right the Crosscurrent/Riptide novels state that Krayt has a telepathic connection with the First Wyyrlok(I admittedly don't know if this is passed on to the 2nd and third generation of Wyyrloks) But yeah, knowing A'sharad fears(Aurra killing his dad and things like that) Kinda helped, tremendously. Having such intimate knowledge about his Lord gave Wyyrlok a big, big edge against Krayt.

In contrast Zannah's illusion have brought out the biggest fears in her victims. Set Harth, Darovit and the rest. So, as an Illusionist I'd place Zannah above Wyyrlok just based on how much more developed and brutal her illusions are.

I assume that Wyyrlok held his own against Krayt for a decent amount of time, but i hardly believe that he forced Krayt on the defensive or anything like that. I'm not overly impressed with Wyyrlok as a duelist, so I'd pretty much give it to Zannah. Better mastery of her form and she has a good amount of knowledge on combat to know when to switch to a counter-offense or to a defense. Not to mention she's much faster and has some strength(not that much but i digress)

I'd give the victory to Zannah, 6-7/10 In my humble opinion. Her illusions are far more developed, her defense and counter-offensive impressive me more and her force powers are somewhat more lethal. But this is just my opinion.



Thanks for the support.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
https://33.media.tumblr.com/3d43e5a8da50803c8880a4bcd630f966/tumblr_n2cp2vQHFh1rl6ypdo1_400.gif

http://24.media.tumblr.com/7f85fa0ed8ac9f86215bd32d0632e759/tumblr_mvwsd10ebG1rwrloeo1_500.gif

What's a little rain to a Supreme?

@Nephthys -

1. I don't know if it was "easy".

2. You mean Lightning, not TK.

3. Wyyrlok's also casually deflected Andeddu's Lightning (deflecting Lightning at all "is a challenge for even the most powerful Jedi Masters", to say nothing of the fact that Wyyrlok easily repelled Lightning from a legendary ancient Sith Lord) and wrecked Andeddu with TP/Illusion.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
http://24.media.tumblr.com/7f85fa0ed8ac9f86215bd32d0632e759/tumblr_mvwsd10ebG1rwrloeo1_500.gif http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11114/111140132/4579821-7363961757-159.g.gif

1. Like I said at the start, Wyyrlok attacks Krayt with 2 hands for lightning, Krayt blocks him with 1. Wyyrlok attacks him with TK and Krayt doesn't just block him he catches the rocks himself and tosses them back while grinning. He's not having any issues.

Remember the whole point is demonstrating lightning and tk on Bane's level. Wyyrlok merely attacking Krayt with those things isn't him doing that, you understand.

2. Bane has disintegrated with both. I was referring to Bane disintegrating with tk when I pointed out that he performed that feat multiple times and easily. He could replicate it without any other factors.

3. Andeddu has no lightning feats and his main ability is mental illusions. So big deal, it doesn't indicate parity with Bane. And sorcery isn't really a valid comparison to use against Bane. Besides which sorcery is willpower based, not necessarily power based.

Originally posted by Nephthys
1. Like I said at the start, Wyyrlok attacks Krayt with 2 hands for lightning, Krayt blocks him with 1. Wyyrlok attacks him with TK and Krayt doesn't just block him he catches the rocks himself and tosses them back while grinning. He's not having any issues.

Remember the whole point is demonstrating lightning and tk on Bane's level. Wyyrlok merely attacking Krayt with those things isn't him doing that, you understand.

2. Bane has disintegrated with both. I was referring to Bane disintegrating with tk when I pointed out that he performed that feat multiple times and easily. He could replicate it without any other factors.

3. Andeddu has no lightning feats and his main ability is mental illusions. So big deal, it doesn't indicate parity with Bane. And sorcery isn't really a valid comparison to use against Bane. Besides which sorcery is willpower based, not necessarily power based.


1. I only see one hand for Wyyrlok, and Krayt matched him with one hand but used two hands to part the Lightning. Unless you're talking about another scan?

2. If he didn't have issues, he would immediately retaliate and kill Wyyrlok. He might not have been strained to the absolute maximum, but it wasn't just casual shrug-offs.

3. Lightning in of itself is immensely difficult to deflect bare-handed, and Andeddu is a reputably powerful Sith Lord, even if he hasn't shown feats of Lightning himself.

And Wyyrlok did wreck him in the mental game anyway. Regarding Sorcery, I'm making as much of a comparison to Zannah (she's the combatant here, after all) as Bane. And frankly Zannah's Illusions don't stack up to Wyyrlok's.