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Bills

vs

Both Forms

Gogeta no time limit.

Movie #12 Gogeta, I'm guessing?

Yea

Well, an excerpt from V-Jump states that at the time of BoG, Beerus was the most powerful character in DBZ history. So take that for what it's worth... /shrug

Yeah, as silly as it sounds, Ssjgod Goku is already stronger than Super Vegetto and Bills was around 30%> That.

Goku states that fusion won't be enough to stop Beerus.

On another note. Why do people call him Bills? In the English version of the movie he was called Beerus. And from what I gather above its not the Japanese name either.

Or are we comparing the fusions with TE's house payments?
http://img.ccrd.clearchannel.com/media/mlib/2135/2015/02/default/bills_4_0_1424772322.gif

Its like you have never heard the term "alternate name"

Come back and try again.

But before you do, read up.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Beerus

Lol man. I know this. I was asking... why...

Where did the name come from?

EDIT: Okay technically I said "why do people call him that" but same ol same ol.

Whis isn't a being. He is love he is life.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Whis isn't a being. He is love he is life.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What about Whis? The same statement would apply to him. At the time of BoG, Whis>>>Beerus>>>>>ALL.

Gogeta and Vegetto fuse and win.

wait is that even possible? I wonder if they will ever have two fused characters fuse. haha

I was thinking about this the other day.

I'm sure it would be fcking insane.

I could see Gohan/Trunks & Goku/Vegita

Roflstomp the multiverse without even amping.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I was thinking about this the other day.

I'm sure it would be fcking insane.

I could see Gohan/Trunks & Goku/Vegita

Roflstomp the multiverse without even amping.
12 universes dont make a multiverse.

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
12 universes dont make a multiverse.

Sure it does

People have mental disabilities sometimes.

That's what threads like these are born from.

Imagine if Beerus and Whis fuse.

...I still dunno if they'd win this fight.

Gogeta AND Vegito... :/

Hard to call.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
People have mental disabilities sometimes.

That's what threads like these are born from.

And whats wrong with the thread?

What's wrong with the thread is the fact that Super Vegetto is already as strong as SSJG Goku, if not even stronger. And the fact that Gogeta is such a massive variable. Going by Fusion Reborn, he's obviously a lot stronger than SSJ3 Goku, but going by how a metamoran fusion between Goku and Vegeta SHOULD come out, they would maybe be twice as strong as Gotenks.

Either way, this thread is silly, and if Vegetto can go SSJ2, he solo's Bills and Whiss at the same time.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Imagine if Beerus and Whis fuse.

Beewhis

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What's wrong with the thread is the fact that Super Vegetto is already as strong as SSJG Goku, if not even stronger. And the fact that Gogeta is such a massive variable. Going by Fusion Reborn, he's obviously a lot stronger than SSJ3 Goku, but going by how a metamoran fusion between Goku and Vegeta SHOULD come out, they would maybe be twice as strong as Gotenks.

Either way, this thread is silly, and if Vegetto can go SSJ2, he solo's Bills and Whiss at the same time.

How the hell did you come to that conclusion?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What's wrong with the thread is the fact that Super Vegetto is already as strong as SSJG Goku, if not even stronger. And the fact that Gogeta is such a massive variable. Going by Fusion Reborn, he's obviously a lot stronger than SSJ3 Goku, but going by how a metamoran fusion between Goku and Vegeta SHOULD come out, they would maybe be twice as strong as Gotenks.

Either way, this thread is silly, and if Vegetto can go SSJ2, he solo's Bills and Whiss at the same time.

Super Vegetto is not stronger then SSJG Goku.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
How the hell did you come to that conclusion?

Because Base Vegetto is cannon stronger than SSJ3 Goku. And SSJG is "just like Super Saiyan 1 is to base, but to Super Saiyan 3.". Basically, SSJG is considered a 50X boost to SSJ3. This is a MONSTROUS boost, obviously. But SSJ1 is ALSO a 50X boost to BASE. And Base Vegetto is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, so SSJ1 Vegetto > SSJG Goku. Therefor, SSJ2 Vegetto is MORE than twice as strong as SSJG Goku(since SSJ2 is a 2X boost to SSJ1), so he would be almost as strong as Whiss. Not quite stronger, I exaggerated a bit, but he would be A LOT stronger than Bills.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Super Vegetto is stronger then SSJG Goku.

Yep.

We have no evidence or proof that

a) Super Saiyan transformations work the same way for Potarra fusion. (and also no evidence that they don't)

b) That Super Saiyan God is only 100X stronger than SSJ 3.

What we do have is a quote from Goku saying that not even fusion would be enough. He was probably talking about the inferior peasant fusion but even if we began discussing Vegetto versus God Goku we have only two things to measure their power by. Which feat was more impressive: Standing up to Beerus or skull ****ing Buuhan?

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
We have no evidence or proof that

a) Super Saiyan transformations work the same way for Potarra fusion. (and also no evidence that they don't)

b) That Super Saiyan God is only 100X stronger than SSJ 3.

Wait, what?

a) I never said they didn't. In fact, I based part of my argument on the fact that they DO work the same for fusions. Given that SSJ1 is a 50X boost for ANYONE onto their base, just like SSJG is a 50X boost to anyone's SSJ3.

b) Um... Don't even get what you're trying to say here. SSJG is 50X SSJ3, Toriyama even suggested that it was the same boost as SSJ1 onto base. Meaning it would be 50X. Which is still a crazy buff, one that puts him around the level of Super Vegetto, just like SSJ3 would to Base Vegetto. Although he'd still be weaker than Vegetto, in both scenario's. So if Vegetto went SSJ2, he'd be ALMOST as strong as Whiss. Assuming that Super Vegetto would be a 7, since he is stronger than SSJG Goku, whereas SSJG Goku was a 6, SSJ2 would make him a 14, and Whiss is only a 15. Meaning that if he went SSJ3 Vegetto, he would be a 56, and he would fart the rest of the Z-verse out of existence.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Wait, what?

a) I never said they didn't. In fact, I based part of my argument on the fact that they DO work the same for fusions. Given that SSJ1 is a 50X boost for ANYONE onto their base, just like SSJG is a 50X boost to anyone's SSJ3.

b) Um... Don't even get what you're trying to say here. SSJG is 50X SSJ3, Toriyama even suggested that it was the same boost as SSJ1 onto base. Meaning it would be 50X. Which is still a crazy buff, one that puts him around the level of Super Vegetto, just like SSJ3 would to Base Vegetto. Although he'd still be weaker than Vegetto, in both scenario's. So if Vegetto went SSJ2, he'd be ALMOST as strong as Whiss. Assuming that Super Vegetto would be a 7, since he is stronger than SSJG Goku, whereas SSJG Goku was a 6, SSJ2 would make him a 14, and Whiss is only a 15. Meaning that if he went SSJ3 Vegetto, he would be a 56, and he would fart the rest of the Z-verse out of existence.

No dude re read you'll notice the "We have no evidence or proof that"

a)

b)

Try again.

Edit: Yeah just change that 100X to 50X. That was my only actual mistake.

I was merely pointing out that is a lot of speculation you're doing there.

I agree we have no clue what the buff really is.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Beewhis

Whisrus

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Super Vegetto is not stronger then SSJG Goku.

Where did AT say SSG is SSj3 x50?

^

Originally posted by Jmanghan
...I still dunno if they'd win this fight.

Gogeta AND Vegito... :/

Hard to call. Not really. V-Jump canonically confirmed that Beerus was far and away the most powerful being in the history of Z at the time of BoG. This means Beerus>>>Vegetto by proxy. Additionally, most agree Vegetto>>Gogeta... Which means the latter would add nothing of note to this fight.

So yeah, Beerus would stomp. An official statement from V-Jump trumps anyone's opinion here.

Originally posted by Galan007
^

Not really. V-Jump canonically confirmed that Beerus was far and away the most powerful being in the history of Z at the time of BoG. This means Beerus>>>Vegetto by proxy. Additionally, most agree Vegetto>>Gogeta... Which means the latter would add nothing of note to this fight.

So yeah, Beerus would stomp. An official statement from V-Jump trumps anyone's opinion here.

Is Super Vegetto as strong as SSJG?

Presumably not lol.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Presumably not lol.

So Gogeta is trolling again, typical. Its funny almost everyone in all forums has called him a troll but he just does the "No You!"

Originally posted by Galan007
^

Not really. V-Jump canonically confirmed that Beerus was far and away the most powerful being in the history of Z at the time of BoG. This means Beerus>>>Vegetto by proxy. Additionally, most agree Vegetto>>Gogeta... Which means the latter would add nothing of note to this fight.

So yeah, Beerus would stomp. An official statement from V-Jump trumps anyone's opinion here.

Pretty sure it's Akira Toriyama's job to show what's canon and what isn't.

Just as well, Vegeta made Beerus spit out blood, it's very possible that Beerus let his guard down, but earlier in the fight, Vegeta punched him and little to no damage befell him.

Also, Vegito and Gogeta have better feats.

Talk to me when Beerus displays Gogeta's speed, then we'll talk.

Out of all this one thing is certain. Super Saiyan Gogeta is one shotted by Beerus.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Pretty sure it's Akira Toriyama's job to show what's canon and what isn't.

Just as well, Vegeta made Beerus spit out blood, it's very possible that Beerus let his guard down, but earlier in the fight, Vegeta punched him and little to no damage befell him.

Also, Vegito and Gogeta have better feats.

Talk to me when Beerus displays Gogeta's speed, then we'll talk. -The Daizenshuu
-The Super-Exciting Guide(SEG)
-Official interviews from Toriyama himself
-The films: Yo! SGahFR!!/BoG/RoF
-V-Jump

The above sources are all of equal canonicity as the manga itself. That is to say: if something is shown/stated in one of the above sources, it is canon. Indisputably canon.

That said, almost ALL of Akira's official interviews over the years have taken place in V-Jump--as do most other official spoilers, and/or new tidbits pertaining to Dragonball--it is Japan's primary source of info for this genre, ffs. To argue the facts it states is ridiculous.

As I said earlier: V-Jump trumps anyone's opinion here.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Is Super Vegetto as strong as SSJG? The quote from V-Jump certainly made it sound like Beerus was insurmountably beyond anything that had ever appeared in DBZ before(Vegetto notwithstanding)... So it seems unlikely that SSJ Vegetto would force Beerus to use the bulk of his power, like SSJG did. Aside from that, the context of the film itself heavily implied that SSJG was the only powerup that might allow the Z fighters to stand any sort of chance against Beerus... Which further implies SSJG Goku>SSJ Vegetto. But I digress.

All that really matters here is that Beerus wins. And comfortably so.

Def agree, but what on earth gave this Gogeta guy the idea that Vegitto was stronger when everything has been said to be the exact opposite?

Imagine Vegito going SSJ2 or SSJ3.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What's wrong with the thread is the fact that Super Vegetto is already as strong as SSJG Goku, if not even stronger. And the fact that Gogeta is such a massive variable. Going by Fusion Reborn, he's obviously a lot stronger than SSJ3 Goku, but going by how a metamoran fusion between Goku and Vegeta SHOULD come out, they would maybe be twice as strong as Gotenks.

Either way, this thread is silly, and if Vegetto can go SSJ2, he solo's Bills and Whiss at the same time.

Nope

Whis>Bills>Vegetto.

Beerus one shotted Mystic Gohan who was at what like half power of Buuhan, or around there? And this is when Beerus was holding back. Not saying Veg had much issues but it's still something to consider.

It's not a direct comparison but it's about as direct as you're going to get.

Plus Beerus was only at like 70 percent at his max output when he fought Goku.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Beerus one shotted Mystic Gohan who was at what like half power of Buuhan, or around there? And this is when Beerus was holding back. Not saying Veg had much issues but it's still something to consider. Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks were about equal(with a slight edge to Gotenks.) So when Buu absorbed Gotenks, his power would have roughly doubled. As Buutenks, he became more powerful than Mystic Gohan, but Gohan was still powerful enough to put up a fight--so the difference between them couldn't have been overly significant. The main reason Buutenks gained the advantage was due to the wacky attack(s) he duped from Gotenks(Gohan certainly wasn't prepared for that kind of shit.)

So yeah, if Mystic Gohan was powerful enough to put up a fight against Buutenks, it means his power was nearly 2x> Super Buu's... Which means Buuhan's power would have been nearly 2x> Buutenks... Which means that Gohan possessed a little less than half the power of Buuhan.

...And while holding back tremendously, Beerus wtfpwned Gohan with a few casual hits.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Plus Beerus was only at like 70 percent at his max output when he fought Goku. Yup. And that 70% was still enough for him to handle SSJG Goku with a fair amount of ease. Had he increased that percentage a little bit, Beerus could have stomped Goku just as easily as he did everyone else.

Originally posted by Galan007
^

Not really. V-Jump canonically confirmed that Beerus was far and away the most powerful being in the history of Z at the time of BoG. This means Beerus>>>Vegetto by proxy. Additionally, most agree Vegetto>>Gogeta... Which means the latter would add nothing of note to this fight.

So yeah, Beerus would stomp. An official statement from V-Jump trumps anyone's opinion here.

Who says Vegetto >> Gogeta? I've seen the odd argument, but on average it's either assumed Vegetto's better due to lack of time restrictions, or that if potera does produce a stronger fusion, it's still competitive with dance fusion. So maybe Vegetto ≥ Gogeta.

Anyways, Goku confirmed Vegetto can't beat Bills in the extended cut BOTG. But he seemed little unsure of it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks were about equal(with a slight edge to Gotenks.) So when Buu absorbed Gotenks, his power would have roughly doubled. As Buutenks, he became more powerful than Mystic Gohan, but Gohan was still powerful enough to put up a fight--so the difference between them couldn't have been overly significant. The main reason Buutenks gained the advantage was due to the wacky attack(s) he duped from Gotenks(Gohan certainly wasn't prepared for that kind of shit.)

So yeah, if Mystic Gohan was powerful enough to put up a fight against Buutenks, it means his power was nearly 2x> Super Buu's... Which means Buuhan's power would have been nearly 2x> Buutenks... Which means that Gohan possessed a little less than half the power of Buuhan.

...And while holding back tremendously, Beerus wtfpwned Gohan with a few casual hits.

Yup. And that 70% was still enough for him to handle SSJG Goku with a fair amount of ease. Had he increased that percentage a little bit, Beerus could have stomped Goku just as easily as he did everyone else. Didn't the Buutenks fusion wear off too? And he was just Piccolo, Trunks, and Goten at the time he absorbed Gohan?

Originally posted by cdtm
Who says Vegetto >> Gogeta? I've seen the odd argument, but on average it's either assumed Vegetto's better due to lack of time restrictions, or that if potera does produce a stronger fusion, it's still competitive with dance fusion. So maybe Vegetto ≥ Gogeta.


My thought as well.

Originally posted by cdtm
Who says Vegetto >> Gogeta? I've seen the odd argument, but on average it's either assumed Vegetto's better due to lack of time restrictions, or that if potera does produce a stronger fusion, it's still competitive with dance fusion. So maybe Vegetto ≥ Gogeta.

Anyways, Goku confirmed Vegetto can't beat Bills in the extended cut BOTG. But he seemed little unsure of it.

The idiot known as Gogeta said it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks were about equal(with a slight edge to Gotenks.)

No

Originally posted by Galan007
I know you think Super Buu was >, but if you actually look at the fight itself, Gotenks definitely had the clear upperhand--especially toward the end. Had his fusion not worn off when it did, it's entirely possible that Gotenks could have beaten Buu in one more attack(even Goku thought so.) So yeah... Based on their battle, I believe SSJ3 Gotenks>Super Buu(marginally.)

However, if you want to call them equals for whatever reason, I'm fine with that. So long as we're clear that Super Buu was absolutely not more powerful.

Fite me IRL

I H8 U.

Galan, while it's true those statements imply a dance fusion of Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be enough, we also have the old Kaio-shin telling Kibito-shin that Goku and Vegeta's rivaley account for Vegetto's unusually high power level, and not the potera's. Meaning if thr potera's properties had nothing to do with the rival boost, it follows dance fusion should get a similar boost.

Originally posted by cdtm
Galan, while it's true those statements imply a dance fusion of Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be enough, we also have the old Kaio-shin telling Kibito-shin that Goku and Vegeta's rivaley account for Vegetto's unusually high power level, and not the potera's. Meaning if thr potera's properties had nothing to do with the rival boost, it follows dance fusion should get a similar boost. 1.) Elder Kaioshin implied that Vegetto's power was amped a bit because Goku/Vegeta were rivals. However, he mainly attributed Vegetto's "unusually high power level" to the fact that 2 of the most powerful beings in the universe had fused... Of course the end result is going to be mega-powerful.

2.) It was never stated that the Metamoran method of fusion gleans a rival boost--and with no supportive evidence, it would be foolish to assume it does. Metamoran and Potara are two completely different methods of fusion, after all... ABC logic cannot be used here.

3.) Buuhan(who had experienced Metamoran first hand, and who was also packing the wisdom of Piccolo+Gohan) explicitly stated that Goku and Vegeta still couldn't beat him if they were to fuse(ie. Buuhan>Gogeta)... But then they use the Potara method of fusion(which Buuhan couldn't have possibly accounted for), and it turns into a completely one-sided shitstomp in Vegetto's favor. This leads us to only one conclusion: Potara>>Metamoran; Vegetto>>Gogeta.

Well, good points. Either way though, Elder Kaio basically attributed Vegetto's strength to non potara specific factors.

And while it's true he absorbed Gotenks, that limits him to their specific fusion and limited knowledge of it. For all we know, a potara based Trunten wouldn't have been much more impressive..

Buu had faced Metamoran fusion firsthand--and with Piccolo's knowledge tacked onto his own, he was WELL aware of what it could produce. That's why Buuhan was confident that fusion between Goku and Vegeta(ie. Gogeta) still wouldn't be enough to defeat him... Then Potara fusion was used instead, and Buuhan was effortlessly stomped by Vegetto.

Attribute the difference in power to whatever you'd like. My only point is that Potara/Vegetto>>Metamoran/Gogeta.

It is pretty simple when you think about it. Most ki-related transformations put a significant strain on the body, from Kai-o-ken to SSJ3. Given how Goku learns of the fusion technique, from some dude in the after life, the Metamoran fusion technique is ki related. Having to balance powers precisely, the time limit(similar to how Goku can only be SSJ3 for a limited amount of time), and it being based on a martial arts kata point to this. And, while it is non-canon, SSJ4 Gogeta also had the time limit drastically shortened due to the sheer amount of ki. The 30-minute limit is probably a design limit in the tech to prevent the bodies from harming themselves.

Now take the Potara fusion. It is created and sustained through magic, which works differently from ki. Monster Carrot, Dabura, Buu, and the Kaioshin all use magical techniques and it really doesn't put a strain on them. They just way their hands and magic happens. The Potara doesn't have that weakness because the body it creates is permanent(or is supposed to be). Without the strain of holding the body together, the newly created warrior would indeed fight better than one with such a strain.

Now of course this is just my supposition. Sufficient amounts of Ki can overpower magical limitations such as when Vegetto still beat up Buuhan as chocolate or when Elder Kai said that if Goku were Super Saiyan before fusing that it would tax the Potara body for the rest of his life. Magic and ki are complicated.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Sufficient amounts of Ki can overpower magical limitations such as when Vegetto still beat up Buuhan as chocolate I've always attributed that 'feat' more to Vegetto's magical quality then anything. As you said: Potara fusion was developed by the Kaioshin, and is 100% magical--so it would only make sense for the being created by Potara to be magical by proxy. This is likely what made Vegetto immune to the full extent of Buu's magics. Yes, he was still transmuted into a tiny piece of candy, but he was able to inextricably retain his full power/sentience in that form... That just screams "magic" to me.

I'm sure the enormous amount of ki he possessed also played a factor... Just not as big of one, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Buu had faced Metamoran fusion firsthand--and with Piccolo's knowledge tacked onto his own, he was WELL aware of what it could produce. That's why Buuhan was confident that fusion between Goku and Vegeta(ie. Gogeta) still wouldn't be enough to defeat him... Then Potara fusion was used instead, and Buuhan was effortlessly stomped by Vegetto.

Attribute the difference in power to whatever you'd like. My only point is that Potara/Vegetto>>Metamoran/Gogeta.

Understood.

Personally, I think there's about as much room for dissgreement as there was with Ultra SSJ Trunks vs SSJ2 Gohan, but either way I'm thinking we're agreed Bills takes this.

But SSJ2 Gohan beats Ultra SSJ Trunks with little effort in any fair scenario.

Referring to an older ki attack vs ki attack thread.

Originally posted by cdtm
Understood.

Personally, I think there's about as much room for dissgreement as there was with Ultra SSJ Trunks vs SSJ2 Gohan, but either way I'm thinking we're agreed Bills takes this. I wouldn't liken it to that at all, as there is nothing to suggest that Metamoran generates the same amount of raw ki as Potara.

By all accounts, Potara is far superior to Metamoran across the board.

Well, like I said, elder Kaioshin telling Kibitoshin Vegetto was strong because Goku and Vegeta are strong, plus have a strong rivalry, speaks more of strong characters creating strong fusions then of Potara creating strong fusions.

And while I agree with you that Potara magic probably accounts for Vegetto being able to somewhat resist magic, I disagree that Buu's opinion of what a normal fusion would produce after he absorbed Piccolo and Gotenks/Goten/Trunks absorbed is, indisputable evidence because they don't know very much about fusion themselves. Goku only had enough time to give them a crash course in performing the technique, and that's the only knowledge Buu would gain as well.

Huh? Piccolo personally trained Gotenks. He saw the power boost gleaned from Metamoran first hand. After absorbing Piccolo, Buu would have been privy to that knowledge as well. Aside from that, Buu had encountered Metamoran fusion firsthand in his battle with Gotenks. He also knew what it was capable of.

That said, Buuhan was definitely in a position to accurately quantify how powerful Goku/Vegeta would have become with Metamoran fusion... And he wasn't worried. At all. This tells us Buuhan>Gogeta.

I don't really see how this is arguable, tbh.

This assumes all fusions are alike, though. Trunks and Goten went from base SSJ , all the way to SSJ3. With more training, they might have taken it further and eclipsed Super Buu entirely.

There's no real proof Buu could analyze Goten and Trunks pre fusion, at base levels, and tell "hmm, they'll create a SSJ3 level fusion. I may be in trouble here.."

Goku and Vegeta's potara form was obviously far beyond SSJ3 Gotenks at base SSJ (And possibly at base, even if that was filler). Kibitoshin may not be an expert in Potara, but he saw enough of their powered up states to judge their fused form was well beyond what it should be.

And there's no real evidence that the potara has anything to do with it. Granted, there's no evidence either way, but that's why I say there's room for dissgreement..

Imo, it's a topic as nebulous as, say, whether the Thundercats are stronger then the Gargoyals, due to lack of solidly defined limits (Showing my age with this example. )

You're putting too much thought into this. Akira Toriyama had Buuhan say that a Metamoran fusion between Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be enough to defeat him... And nothing proves Buu's assertion wrong.

You can speculate all you'd like, but in the end it comes down to an on-panel statement from a very credible character vs. your opinion... and the former wins every single time.

There's also the fact Kibito Kai was nothing to Super Buu.

Supreme Kai was likely stronger then the kids and closer to SSJ2 (As he contained supressed SSJ2 Gohan's power), and according to the 7th daizenzhuu, Kibito could contend with base Gohan. If the potata was really >> dance fusion, Kibito Kai should have been amped up to the point where he could at least hold his own for a bit against Buu, instead of being dismissed as not even worth a distraction.

Originally posted by cdtm
There's also the fact Kibito Kai was nothing to Super Buu.

Supreme Kai was likely stronger then the kids and closer to SSJ2 (As he contained supressed SSJ2 Gohan's power), and according to the 7th daizenzhuu, Kibito could contend with base Gohan. If the potata was really >> dance fusion, Kibito Kai should have been amped up to the point where he could at least hold his own for a bit against Buu, instead of being dismissed as not even worth a distraction. Again: Elder Kaioshin attributes Vegetto's unusually high power level to the fact that Goku and Vegeta were 2 of the most powerful beings in the universe, as well as rivals to boot. Obviously Potara doesn't glean the same results for everyone--that's why Goku commented that fusing with Mr. Satan would only weaken him, for example.

Additionally, Supreme Kaioshin was scarred shitless of Dabra's power--and Dabra~Cell. This tells us that Supreme Kaioshin was around the level of a FPSSJ, at the most. Kibito was likely far weaker than that. Furthermore, they wouldn't have received the rival boost when they fused... Of course Kibito Kai wasn't a threat to Super Buu. You remember how powerful Super Buu was, right? Even SSJ3 Goku was little more than a weak feeb by comparison.

Freeza's new Power Level is 100 Quintillion and Beerus is stronger. Vegeto and Gogeta have no chance.
http://i0.wp.com/waku2japan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/CDEzSgTUsAAhh_h_orig.jpg

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What's wrong with the thread is the fact that Super Vegetto is already as strong as SSJG Goku, if not even stronger. And the fact that Gogeta is such a massive variable. Going by Fusion Reborn, he's obviously a lot stronger than SSJ3 Goku, but going by how a metamoran fusion between Goku and Vegeta SHOULD come out, they would maybe be twice as strong as Gotenks.

Either way, this thread is silly, and if Vegetto can go SSJ2, he solo's Bills and Whiss at the same time.

Wrong again. thx effect veller

http://i0.wp.com/waku2japan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/CDEzSgTUsAAhh_h_orig.jpg

^ I already busted that non-canon power level...

Ryusei Nakao(the Japanese voice actor for Freeza) jokingly stated in an interview that Freeza's BP might be around 100 quintillion:




Aside from the joking nature of his statement, Nakao is also just a voice actor. He certainly isn't a in a position to 'canonize' a BP of that magnitude.

I'm more rubbing Gogetas nose in his own stinky pile of shit based on him saying Vegetto>Bills.

Originally posted by Galan007
Again: Elder Kaioshin attributes Vegetto's unusually high power level to the fact that Goku and Vegeta were 2 of the most powerful beings in the universe, as well as rivals to boot. Obviously Potara doesn't glean the same results for everyone--that's why Goku commented that fusing with Mr. Satan would only weaken him, for example.

Additionally, Supreme Kaioshin was scarred shitless of Dabra's power--and Dabra~Cell. This tells us that Supreme Kaioshin was around the level of a FPSSJ, at the most. Kibito was likely far weaker than that. Furthermore, they wouldn't have received the rival boost when they fused... Of course Kibito Kai wasn't a threat to Super Buu. You remember how powerful Super Buu was, right? Even SSJ3 Goku was little more than a weak feeb by comparison.

SSJ3 Goku may have been, but Gotenks certainly was not. Even as a SSJ 1, he could fight Super Buu.

And both kids individually were barely above Android #16 level.

Lets say Grand Kai was ulra SSJ level. That's more then powerful enough to outright ignore every android in the Cell saga at the same time. Hell, even Vegeta's first amp is more powerful then the kids showed.

So, even with Kibito's weaker power, the >> amp you're suggesting should have at least bumped Kibito Kai into a form that two much, much weaker kids were able to attain with a weaker metamoran form, shouldn't it?

Originally posted by cdtm
SSJ3 Goku may have been, but Gotenks certainly was not. Even as a SSJ 1, he could fight Super Buu.

And both kids individually were barely above Android #16 level.

Lets say Grand Kai was ulra SSJ level. That's more then powerful enough to outright ignore every android in the Cell saga at the same time. Hell, even Vegeta's first amp is more powerful then the kids showed.

So, even with Kibito's weaker power, the >> amp you're suggesting should have at least bumped Kibito Kai into a form that two much, much weaker kids were able to attain with a weaker metamoran form, shouldn't it? a.) SSJ Gotenks>>SSJ3 Goku. Regardless, Gotenks still wasn't a legit threat to Super Buu at all until he went SSJ3--which is 8x> SSJ.

b.) The boys are a lot more powerful than you're giving them credit for. SSJ Goten was strong enough to nearly overwhelm FPSSJ Gohan when they sparred(Gohan even commented on his tremendous power.) Yes, Gohan was weaker at the time, but he still would have been WELL above #16-level as a FPSSJ... And Trunks was a bit more powerful than Goten. Even #18, with knowledge of the other Saiyans' power levels, was awestruck at how powerful one of 'Mighty Mask's' restrained blasts were during the WMAT(and this was after she had already figured out that Mighty Mask was actually the boys.) So yeah... They were both very, very powerful. I'd have them each ~/> Semi-Perfect Cell.

c.) Potara can fuse any two beings together, but in order for the end result to be as powerful as possible, the fusees have to be a perfect match. This, again, is why Goku's power would have actually decreased had he fused with Mr. Satan--they weren't an ideal match. That said, Kaioshin and Kibito certainly weren't a perfect match in the same way Goku and Vegeta were. Their power may have increased a bit after fusing, but judging by Elder Kaioshin's reaction, I doubt it was by much. I'd have KibitoKai's power < SSJ2-level, tbh.