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Fight on neutral ground somewhere on Tython.

This is the Vitiate that HoT defeated on Dromund Kass, not the one that can blow up galaxies.

Actually, without the immensely powerful nexus of the Dark Temple, this iteration of Vitiate should fall in short order against Revan, who would beat the HoT as well.

Team kicks his ass again.

That version of Vitiate was still powerful enough to collapse a huge portion of Dark Temple and HoT managed to defeat him.

SoR Revan can definitely replicate what HoT did but the team is too much for him.

Originally posted by Sinious
That version of Vitiate was still powerful enough to collapse a huge portion of Dark Temple and HoT managed to defeat him.

SoR Revan can definitely replicate what HoT did but the team is too much for him.

1. Right, while he was on the nexus. Without it, he'd be a lot weaker. He's not going to do much here.

2. HoT can challenge Revan, but he'd ultimately lose every time. This weakened version of Vitiate won't be tipping the scales.

lol

That was a very convincing counterargument.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Right, while he was on the nexus. Without it, he'd be a lot weaker. He's not going to do much here.

2. HoT can challenge Revan, but he'd ultimately lose every time. This weakened version of Vitiate won't be tipping the scales.

1. Vitiate was so exhausted he could barely stand at that point, was clutching his side and thats before the Hero almost cut him in half. Then he collapsed the temple. Unless this is the version of Vitiate after losing a massive battle to the Hero the nexus isn't really relevant. Vitiate going into that fight could obviously accomplish that feat rather easily even without it.

2. That's dumb. Vitiate can always tip the scales. He's the goddamn Emperor. And the HoT is stronger than he was when he fought Vitiate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
1. Vitiate was so exhausted he could barely stand at that point, was clutching his side and thats before the Hero almost cut him in half. Then he collapsed the temple. Unless this is the version of Vitiate after losing a massive battle to the Hero the nexus isn't really relevant. Vitiate going into that fight could obviously accomplish that feat rather easily even without it.

2. That's dumb. Vitiate can always tip the scales. He's the goddamn Emperor.

1. I did use to believe that, but in the DS option, you outright kill the Emperor (ie. he becomes only a fleeing essence) and he still collapses the temple, so I honestly wonder if the whole mortal injury thing actually played a part.

2. Not in this state. Unless he can collapse the temple under those conditions, in which case I agree he would.

1. Scourge says that Vitiate isn't dead yet actually. "I can sense him fading, but not gone!" Vitiate is a bamf to still be alive through that tbh.

2. He should still be capable of putting Revan off his game enough for the Hero to beat him, through his myriad of force powers and sorcery. And bare in mind that this Revan isn't as powerful as the one in the expansion, since he was on a powerful nexus too and had the temples.

I meant when the Temple collapses, IIRC Vitiate's essence can be seen leaving. Otherwise, it is an impressive feat and the team could win.

You're right about the pillars and what not, but Ant said something about Revan being hindered by the nexus. I have no idea what I believe at the moment, although he probably did amp himself, to be honest.

2pwPRbwaT2A

I can't see it. 4.05. But wouldn't him being dead make it kind of easier since he's not in horrible pain and having to deal with his body being broken?

You probably should buy into what Ant says imo. He's not the most objective of dudes. But he was pretty darn darksidey imo.

1. Well, that's the point.

2. Wait, what?

1. He can do it in both cases. It doesn't matter imo.

2.*Shouldn't.

And I mean Revan was pretty darksidey.

Well, it'd be a double-standard for me to believe in the hindering case unless a really good argument for it comes up, because I generally do use the amp argument for Revan's abused feat against the Strike Team.

I'll let Ant make his case, though, since I have no idea what it is at the moment.

Nova, did you even see the pillars close up in the game? Lmfao.

Though nah, no reason. Spending time to write an argument against Neph is just a hilarious waste of time.

If anyone else that is worth my time is interested though, I'll gladly explain.

Continued Above.

---

Let us say Revan has 30,000 midichlorians. It works in the sense that half of them bring in corrupted energies (dark side), and half of them bring in non-corrupted (light side). So, lets divide that by half and we got 15,000 midichlorians bringing in dark energy, and 15,000 midichlorians bringing in light energy. Let's say also the amp on Yavin IV featured a 120% concentration of dark side energies, which is more than usual. Those 15,000 midichlorians will be working as if Revan has 18,000 midichlorians. The other 15,000 midichlorians than have to dig in the apparently immensely concentrated dark side energies of Yavin IV to balance out the corrupted energies. Obviously the dark side energies are going to flow in faster, so Revan has to waste a lot of his 18,000 midichlorians in order to balance it out with the light side energy. Heck, if this planet is truly as dark as you guys say it is, Revan will have a time in hell trying to find these non-corrupted energies. In the end, he might be functioning with the total capacity of 25,000 midichlorians (with him scavenging the light side destructive output of 12,500 midichlorians, and the other dark half obviously has to balance that out), which is not even his normal self of 30,000 midichlorians. So ultimately, the bigger "amp" Revan gets, the more energy he has to use to balance it out. In a world totally saturated by dark side energies, Revan might not be even able to function at half his capacity. In fact, isn't there a quote that says Yavin IV is totally saturated in the dark side, or am I mistaken? Because if so, Revan might be far more powerful than we ever imagined.

NOTE: This is merely one of my two "Revan was hindered" arguments. The second is pretty direct, to the point, and obvious.

Image doesn't work.

Yeah, sorry about that. I'm trying to upload the set of images to postimage.org atm. For some reason imgur doesn't support .bmp images anymore.
EDIT: http://postimg.org/gallery/ehzq9d6w/08267ebb/.

Also having a "good" motive doesn't make you less of a Sith. Example Dooku.

SoR Revan isn't a Sith in the first place. His faction is the Order of Revan.

I didn't say he was, I was making a point. Tons of darksiders fall based on good intentions. It doesn't matter, they still use the darkside. They are still darksiders.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Spending time to write an argument against Neph is just a hilarious waste of time.
Good call, past-Ant.

Also:

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Continued Above.

---

Let us say Revan has 30,000 midichlorians. It works in the sense that half of them bring in corrupted energies (dark side), and half of them bring in non-corrupted (light side). So, lets divide that by half and we got 15,000 midichlorians bringing in dark energy, and 15,000 midichlorians bringing in light energy. Let's say also the amp on Yavin IV featured a 120% concentration of dark side energies, which is more than usual. Those 15,000 midichlorians will be working as if Revan has 18,000 midichlorians. The other 15,000 midichlorians than have to dig in the apparently immensely concentrated dark side energies of Yavin IV to balance out the corrupted energies. Obviously the dark side energies are going to flow in faster, so Revan has to waste a lot of his 18,000 midichlorians in order to balance it out with the light side energy. Heck, if this planet is truly as dark as you guys say it is, Revan will have a time in hell trying to find these non-corrupted energies. In the end, he might be functioning with the total capacity of 25,000 midichlorians (with him scavenging the light side destructive output of 12,500 midichlorians, and the other dark half obviously has to balance that out), which is not even his normal self of 30,000 midichlorians. So ultimately, the bigger "amp" Revan gets, the more energy he has to use to balance it out. In a world totally saturated by dark side energies, Revan might not be even able to function at half his capacity. In fact, isn't there a quote that says Yavin IV is totally saturated in the dark side, or am I mistaken? Because if so, Revan might be far more powerful than we ever imagined.

NOTE: This is merely one of my two "Revan was hindered" arguments. The second is pretty direct, to the point, and obvious.

This is complete nonsense.

"rEVAN WAS ONLY HALF AS STRONG DURRR!"

Such a silly goose. Legend looks on you and weeps at the rampant bias.

http://media.tumblr.com/d7f9f0c63d922f6da5c00cdb6fa1a667/tumblr_inline_nkbe5dJ8t71qfwhgs.gif
Great rebuttal. I concede to all parts.

Why would I waste my time with a rebuttal when you're not willing to argue with me? I'm just calling it like it is.

So tell me, since it's soooo hard for Revan to function in darkside places and you believe Kaas to be a nexus, was Revan at half power vs Vitiate too???? IS HE ACTUALLY BETTER THAN HIM???!

We already know Revan was greatly hindered in the first place.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii296/Valoo834/Revanchrist.jpg

I believe.

Very good.

For the record, and I don't know if my dialogue is different (my HoT is 100% Dark), but you can tell Spirit Revan that you wanted to fight with him (in the foundry I'm guessing) and I think he praises your power at that point iirc. Revan has always valued power/prowess, whether he was sith or jedi, so this is consistent.

Also I don't think Revan could have been TOO hindered. From how I understood it, and I just finished SoR recently (read: yesterday), SoR Revan was the "power" and Spirit Revan was the "conscious."

IMO it would make more sense that SoR Revan had all of his power, and that Spirit Revan just manifested himself by feeding off of his corporeal body's power. Or that, if we're breaking it into midichlorines, SoR Revan had 99% of them and Spirit Revan siphoned off 1% to make appearances/communicate. The Spirit was, after all, pretty damn weak until you met in the cave, and he couldn't do anything to SoR Revan until he was near death himself.

I might gamble that every sentence you just wrote was hilariously flawed. Like, every sentence. mmm

"Battlemaster" HoT is just as weak as Act III HoT.

Its funny how people say collapsing the temple is a feat that can't be replicated absent nexus boost cause Vitiate collapsed the temple while he was exhausted and more importantly, dying. This is Vitiate at the start of the battle and I doubt the nexus boost is as important as the difference between a rested Vitiate and the dying Vitiate.

HoT himself is no joke and would give Revan AT LEAST a decent fight. His main style is melee combat and tanking force users. Vitiate's force attacks would be the perfect support for HoT. Revan simply can't keep up with HoT's dueling and weakened Vitiate's force attacks at the same time.

Except the HoT gets TK'd along with everyone else and would have been incapacitated along with everyone else, assuming that them having the rank Battlemaster means that they are the one that went after Revan. The gap between them Force-wise is ridiculous. S/he can't give Revan a fight, decent or otherwise. Only hype that's pretty much proven inaccurate demands otherwise.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
assuming that them having the rank Battlemaster means that they are the one that went after Revan.

Why would you assume that?

They're only given the rank during this expansion.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
"Battlemaster" HoT is just as weak as Act III HoT.

No, they got stronger in the expansion by fully recovering from the taint of Vitiate's domination and recovering the memories of the training she received while under it.

The class descriptions also speak of an "ever-deepening connection to the Force".

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except the HoT gets TK'd along with everyone else and would have been incapacitated along with everyone else, assuming that them having the rank Battlemaster means that they are the one that went after Revan. The gap between them Force-wise is ridiculous. S/he can't give Revan a fight, decent or otherwise. Only hype that's pretty much proven inaccurate demands otherwise.

Revan doesn't do that cutscene Force Wave in the Republic version.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Revan doesn't do that cutscene Force Wave in the Republic version.

LMAO that's right!

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, they got stronger in the expansion by fully recovering from the taint of Vitiate's domination and recovering the memories of the training she received while under it.

That has never been shown to actually make them stronger. Metaphorical nonsense aside. What has this actually been shown to do that the HoT couldn't do before?

I give absolutely no shits for accolades, something you know and something I just said in this post you quoted, without actual showings. Otherwise I'd buy into the HoT being the most powerful Jedi alive right off Tython.


Scripted events are just as canon as cutscenes.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That has never been shown to actually make them stronger. Metaphorical nonsense aside. What has this actually been shown to do that the HoT couldn't do before?

Well if nothing else she got a bunch of new training, which is undoubtedly useful. But Orgus Din pretty clearly says that she still has a wound in her spirit that aches from the Emperor soaking her spirit in darkness. And a Jedi's strength comes from harmony and balance. Obviously a wound in her spirit would affect her. The Hero specifically says "I am whole" afterwards.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I give absolutely no shits for accolades, something you know and something I just said in this post you quoted, without actual showings. Otherwise I'd buy into the HoT being the most powerful Jedi alive right off Tython.

Uh, it's not really an accolade it's more of a description. And I don't see why you'd doubt this, the Hero is clearly still developing in the game and is shown training in expansions. Unless you think she reached her full potential in 3 years and completely plateaued. She demonstrably improves throughout the whole class storyline and there's no reason that would change in the newer material.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Scripted events are just as canon as cutscenes.

Not sure Revan ever tk's the player in a scripted event. Also he was amped.

Originally posted by Nephthys


Not sure Revan ever tk's the player in a scripted event. Also he was amped.

I can confirm. HoT slowly walks up steps to the temple, Revan draws his blade. Cutscene. They stare each other down. Revan says "you cannot hope to face me alone." HoT replies "I've got friends" or something like that. Your backup shows up and the fight begins. Then the rest is game mechanics, but I guess it might be important that HoT (or whoever the player character is I guess) isn't pinned to the wall and force whirlwinded like the rest of the party.

We don't need your confirmation. Videos been out for like 6 months now.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
We don't need your confirmation. Videos been out for like 6 months now.

Glad I could save future readers a trip to youtube.