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They're both powerless, no gear.

I think Wonder Woman wrecks him

That might actually be the case.
For a character of her tier, WW is known for being a terrific MA.
This wouldnt be the same as the Thor and Supes threads, where their power trumps their skill.

both powerless, meaning she would have her human damage soak and durability? frank would take it in the end. she had some good feats powerless, and she would certainly dance around him and get in some solid strikes, but this is HIS forte. it would only take a couple well placed shots to turn this quickly in his favor. she MAY be more skilled than him, but the difference wouldn't be that great imo and his damage soak would far exceed her own. she might get 1 or 2 maybe, but he'd take the overwhelming majority imo.

I guess the sticking point is her skill.
I started a powerless WW/Black Canary thread here once that saw the board put her comfortably above BC, to my surprise. That skilled, Frank is not.

frank is close to that level for sure. he's had extended h2h battles with guys like daredevil and logan. she might have a skill edge but it wouldn't be great enough to overcome his damage soak advantage. not imo.

Originally posted by riv6672
I guess the sticking point is her skill.
I started a powerless WW/Black Canary thread here once that saw the board put her comfortably above BC, to my surprise. That skilled, Frank is not.

The board did that? When?

Punisher vs. Wonder Woman. Perfect title for a BDSM porn film.

Originally posted by leonidas
frank is close to that level for sure. he's had extended h2h battles with guys like daredevil and logan. she might have a skill edge but it wouldn't be great enough to overcome his damage soak advantage. not imo.
See? Sticking point.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The board did that? When?
Last year.

not sure why you keep saying it's a sticking point. it may be a sticking point for you, (not that you've given an opinion) but it isn't for me. this is pretty clear cut imo. the skills are comparable with likely an edge to diana but that difference in skill (even if some want to assume it's a little bigger) is not nearly enough to overcome his damage soak advantage. it's my opinion, but i'd be shocked if anyone gave diana more than a couple out of 10 in this, and many probably won't give her that....

Originally posted by riv6672
See? Sticking point.


Last year.

The shit that happens when I'm not around...

Frank knocks her ass out cold after a Mr. and Mrs. Smith type scuffle.

During her depowered era she managed to beat a few Amazons at once. Now while it's true you basic Amazon is no where near her stat level normally ( more like a class 20 and speed etc to match). They can certainly deal out more punishment then even Fran has taken in fights. I'd lean slightly toward Dianna in this.

Originally posted by beatboks
During her depowered era she managed to beat a few Amazons at once. Now while it's true you basic Amazon is no where near her stat level normally ( more like a class 20 and speed etc to match). They can certainly deal out more punishment then even Fran has taken in fights. I'd lean slightly toward Dianna in this.

Not only that, but as basically a kid, she had to beat Amazon's with thousands of years experience over her to even get the Wonder Woman powers.

Castles good at h2h, but he isn't "that" good.

Even depowered, Diana still has the abilities to feel the shift in the air and knows exactly what Frank is playing on doing.

She did it while she was blind, no reason she can't do it while depowered. She might lose the fast reflexes, but since it's not her powers that gave her those abilities but her training, she'll be just fine.

Still the same result. Frank wins, though for some reason I see Diana putting up a way, way better fight than both Supes and Thor.

Originally posted by beatboks
During her depowered era she managed to beat a few Amazons at once. Now while it's true you basic Amazon is no where near her stat level normally ( more like a class 20 and speed etc to match). They can certainly deal out more punishment then even Fran has taken in fights. I'd lean slightly toward Dianna in this.

hmm, didn't she have her standard amazon stats though....? she was depowered all the way to human once for a while. no way as a human i see her taking multiple amazons.

She had trouble with random thugs when she lost her powers in Godwar.

Frank wins.

yeah, that's what i was thinking, though she did beat down a bunch of them....

wonder woman kick his ass, she's a great h2h combatant, on batman level good

this thread is kinda funny. i disagree with a lot of the results, but admit to being surprised by them. it's funny though because when she is put against heralds, her skill is almost never really factored in, or her skill is considered overrated by posters. i'm cool with people thinking she wins this, though i disagree completely, but i wonder where all these 'skill' people are when she has to fight people in her actual weight class....

Originally posted by relentless1
on batman level good

Let's not get *that* hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh, brother.

Originally posted by relentless1
wonder woman kick his ass, she's a great h2h combatant, on batman level good

No she ****ing isn't.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No she ****ing isn't.

Nope, she isn't.

Definately proper elite street leveler, though.

Black Canary level's nothing to sneeze at.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No she ****ing isn't.



i'd actually say diana and frank are pretty close in h2h level, though there was this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/13/139614/2704051-tumblr_mcwednyyuy1rbg5awo1_500.png

but then there's this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/65659/1252011-batvsdiana_jlasf1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PShjM.jpg

but then there's this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/73849/2295848-wonder_woman_batman_boot_i.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114723/3466563-9007350329-tumbl.jpg



but what about this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113402/3977334-batvsjla-confidential3.jpg

anyway, just thought i'd throw some fuel on the fire. i agree though--she's good, but she isn't bats.

oh, and someone mentioned the canary fight:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/24487/456073-ww_los0.jpg


https://dreager1.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/bop_68_10.jpg


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11/110095/3254981-7142079311-BoP_6.jpg


https://siahsgirl.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/img_0357-0.png

one scan missing and can't seem to get it to work, but...you get the picture. her and canary seem to be pretty damn close in overall h2h skills.

I don't mind people saying they're close. You can make the argument for it, sure.

Anyone saying she's "comfortably above" Canary though? They need to put the crack pipe down.

who else would you personally place in diana's skill tier aside from canary?

Originally posted by leonidas
who else would you personally place in diana's skill tier aside from canary?

No ****ing idea, tbh. It's my personal opinion that Canary is actually > Diana anyway, but for argument's sake I don't mind saying they're around the same level.

I'd have to think about it.

Professor Xavier

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Professor Xavier

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/37015/1328878-charles4.jpg

xavier 1, daredevil 0.

I don't care what anyone say, Bruce nor Dianah are in Diana's level of skills.

Authors for some reason thinks its smart of them to make the human out maneuver the superhuman beings.

Diana spent her entire life fighting other Amazons, including her mom. Said women in her time has learn and gained so much fighting experience is not funny.

Post Crisis she even spent a 1000 yr fighting in near endless war. Plus she has the wisdom of Athena. The Goddess of Warfare.

In the new 52, she wasn't just trained by the Amazons and her mom, but Ares, the God OF War himself was her teacher. He taught her not only fighting, but the strategic of warfare.

So when you have a character like Bruce lasting more than a second in a fight against her, you have to call bullshit.

Superman fought the thousand year war too, and he didn't come back as some kind of master.

Bruce is smarter than Diana, and more skilled. Should he last in a fight against her? No, but it's not because of her skills; it's because she could crush his head under her boot before he could blink.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Let's not get *that* hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh, brother.

agreed, i need to scale that comment back a bit

wonder woman quite easily

Originally posted by leonidas
this thread is kinda funny. i disagree with a lot of the results, but admit to being surprised by them. it's funny though because when she is put against heralds, her skill is almost never really factored in, or her skill is considered overrated by posters. i'm cool with people thinking she wins this, though i disagree completely, but i wonder where all these 'skill' people are when she has to fight people in her actual weight class....

All things equal, giving Diana the win.

It's pure stats that make me put Superman or the Shazams over her. Speed feats, especially...

Originally posted by leonidas
not sure why you keep saying it's a sticking point.
because the board has ranked WW as above BC, who would likely take Frank in h2h.
it may be a sticking point for you, (not that you've given an opinion)
Again, wondering how the board will vote, considering what i already said.
Dont have a set opinion yet, so am hoping for input from the board, but, talking about me is good too, its my 7th fave subject.
but it isn't for me.
good!

Originally posted by -Pr-
The shit that happens when I'm not around... it happened.

People were arguing based off Diana having the edge while sparring.

Xavier oneshot callisto.

don't **** with him

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
it happened.

People were arguing based off Diana having the edge while sparring.
Ah, you remember it, then!

Originally posted by cdtm
All things equal, giving Diana the win.

It's pure stats that make me put Superman or the Shazams over her. Speed feats, especially...

speed feats? they both have (had) the same access to hermes' speed... ww actually has better displayed speed feats from what i've seen. no one posted speed feats from cap in that adam/ww thread that matched her best ones....travel OR combat.

anyway, that's off topic. and i think it's great people are taking diana in this for some reason. i'd just love to SEE proof to support everyone's opinion that diana can take this with purely human stats. not sure where the proof is to support that stance.....

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman fought the thousand year war too, and he didn't come back as some kind of master.

Bruce is smarter than Diana, and more skilled. Should he last in a fight against her? No, but it's not because of her skills; it's because she could crush his head under her boot before he could blink.

I'll give you that one on the thousand year war.

But i disagree on Bruce being more skill and smarter than Diana.

Bruce is smarter in a scientist point of view and being a detective, no more. Diana has the wisdom of Athena to call upon. Unless were claiming that Bruce is smarter than a chick that thrives on knowledge and warfare.

Skills wise, Bruce has nothing on Diana. One of Diana's main point was to be trained by the Amazons, the same Amazons that sends out there own every few yrs to the outside world to learn everything about it. Including everything on Warfare. Diana was trained in all of these aspects. There's no reason Bruce should be more skilled than her.

Remove Pis/Cis, the only thing Bruce has on Diana is
1. Being more cynical
2. Being better in techs.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Punisher vs. Wonder Woman. Perfect title for a BDSM porn film. Id watch that.

Originally posted by leonidas
speed feats? they both have (had) the same access to hermes' speed... ww actually has better displayed speed feats from what i've seen. no one posted speed feats from cap in that adam/ww thread that matched her best ones....travel OR combat.

anyway, that's off topic. and i think it's great people are taking diana in this for some reason. i'd just love to SEE proof to support everyone's opinion that diana can take this with purely human stats. not sure where the proof is to support that stance.....

Well, there's this from Cap:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/12/125833/2400501-cmcloudsalso5dimpspower.jpg


But yeah, I'll admit there's some assumptions based off Supermans feats, and the Shazams supposed status as his equal in every way. While they DO have enough feats of their own to justify their status as heavy hitters, I doubt they'd keep up in a feat war with Supermans highest showings.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
it happened.

People were arguing based off Diana having the edge while sparring.

That's ONE example... Do we just pick and choose now? Is that it?

Originally posted by SquallX
I'll give you that one on the thousand year war.

But i disagree on Bruce being more skill and smarter than Diana.

Bruce is smarter in a scientist point of view and being a detective, no more. Diana has the wisdom of Athena to call upon. Unless were claiming that Bruce is smarter than a chick that thrives on knowledge and warfare.

Skills wise, Bruce has nothing on Diana. One of Diana's main point was to be trained by the Amazons, the same Amazons that sends out there own every few yrs to the outside world to learn everything about it. Including everything on Warfare. Diana was trained in all of these aspects. There's no reason Bruce should be more skilled than her.

Remove Pis/Cis, the only thing Bruce has on Diana is
1. Being more cynical
2. Being better in techs.

Wisdom isn't the same as intelligence.

Bruce travelled all over the world, and was trained by the greatest fighters in the world (including Lady Shiva). There's plenty of reason why you could say he's a better fighter than she is.

======

Anyway, guys, let's try to get back on topic please. We're all getting off course a little here, so lets try to wind it down asap.

Good fight edge to Diana

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's ONE example... Do we just pick and choose now? Is that it?



Wisdom isn't the same as intelligence.

Bruce travelled all over the world, and was trained by the greatest fighters in the world (including Lady Shiva). There's plenty of reason why you could say he's a better fighter than she is.

======

Anyway, guys, let's try to get back on topic please. We're all getting off course a little here, so lets try to wind it down asap.

Oh Diana vs Bruce, Bruce wins definately. But that's because the only heavyweight besides Barda who could test her skills is in the LOSH timeline, and against street levelers there's always the question of her stats playing a role.

At best, I'd rank her as competitive with true elites, sort of like a cl100 Shen Kuei.

Who, imo, could beat Castle in pure h2h, based on what I've seen of him (Which id mostly punking out Bullseye and catching Daredevil with a tranc gun. Plus the Az Bat fight, which doesn't count.)

Originally posted by iceman24567
Good fight edge to Diana
This is the meat of the thread.