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I know this isn't a versus thread, but since this section gets the most flow, i thought I'll put it here.

Like the title says, what does Batman really brings to the table in the schemes of things. I would like an actually reasoning why he's useful and not that he's the Batman answer.

Authors for some reason thinks its smart of them to make the human out maneuver the superhuman beings. With Bruce being the ultimate plot device.

So lets' look at the main JL, and what they bring and compares it to Bruce. For this, were only using new 52.

Strategist- Diana was trained by the God of war himself, nothing Bruce come with that she herself couldn't thought off.

Detective- Barry is a forensics scientist. Not only that, since he's the Flash, he's brain allows him to do his job far better than Bruce. Anything Bruce could come up with, Barry would have already though of it.

Martial Artist- Again Diana's being trained by her mother, the Amazons, and Ares the God of War himself.

knowledge- People always claimed how knowledgeable Bruce is, yet forgets there's a guy with a ring that as knowledge about the universe.

So again, what it is that Bruce brings that makes him such a powerful force that the authors makes the other Leagues act stupid around him and magically forgets there powers?

Dumb thread

You don't have to answer if you think its dumb, you know that right?

As much as I wonder about the spirit of the thread like this, I'll give it a go.

Saying that she was trained by Ares is nice, but until we see actual feats of strategy from her that match up or exceed his, I'm not really sure an argument can be made. Batman, more than anyone in the League, outsmarts villains in ways that I honestly don't see any of the other characters doing. Is plot a part of it? Sure, but you still need a Batman-like character to do said things.

After all, how unimpressive would Superman be if he never punched a villain but instead found some clever way to outwit them. He's not Sherlock Holmes, and neither is Diana.

Barry is a forensic scientist... Which is VERY different from being a detective. They're completely different departments, and with good reason. A fair amount of the skills might intersect, but a lot don't. So, like the others, Flash falls behind Batman because simply put, no matter how fast your brain works, if you lack the instinct to do something, you're not going to magically get better at it.

Look at Reed and Doom, for example.

martial arts doesn't come in to it most of the time, tbh. And if it did, it wouldn't matter if you try to judo chop someone with skin as dense as reinforced steel.

knowledge? Hal might have the ring, but he's not a genius. Batman is. Batman has the knowledge and knows how to apply it in ways Hal/Kyle/John/Guy ever could.

==

Like I said, I do have my doubts about the spirit of the thread, but taking it at its merits? If you don't think Batman really brings anything to the team, and are going to wave anything he does away as the writer just wanting the Human to look good, then I feel like you're kind of missing the point.

And this is Batman for chrissakes. He gets more leeway than most.

Thread of the year.

Originally posted by SquallX
What does Batman brings to the table

He brings the table.

Originally posted by Inhuman
He brings the table.

^ Literally.

Lowkey batman hating

Originally posted by Inhuman
He brings the table.



Anyway, Batman is an infinitely better strategist than WW. Trained by the god of war? Give me a break. WW is never shown to be a master strategist. Heck, Ares isn't a master of strategy himself, that Athena's sphere.

Originally posted by ares834


Anyway, Batman is an infinitely better strategist than WW. Trained by the god of war? Give me a break. WW is never shown to be a master strategist. Heck, Ares isn't a master of strategy himself, that Athena's sphere.

He brings money to publishers. Wonder Woman doesn't.

He brings all the boys to the yard.

Batmans the guy that thinks outside the box, he's needed in a team like the Justice League cuz he can't take anything for granted, he's a mere human so he has to plan everything in advance to make up for his lack of superpowers, this makes him very dangerous because unlike most heroes who are reactive, Batman is very much proactive, couple that with his vast wealth, skill and resources makes him a very formidable opponent or teammate

What does Batman bring to the table...
He is human at least in relation to his other teammates- and since our species is filled with narcissists one can see the appeal of having one of "us" being respected and valued by super beings . Or he is a metaphor for how humans in relations to other animals find ways to compete and even succeed even though our physical attributes are lacking. Realistically Bruce is completely useless if you logically look at the power sets he's around assuming his team is not MR. All the team members bring everything to the table that batman does and so much more. Batman's real super power is being the easiest to write convolutedly well 👍 Scott Synders run is quite amusing and the best since Miller's vision

He brings money and that big ol' crimefighting computer of this.

It's also that he's another resourceful member. It often helps to simply have another pair of hands or eyes.

It's not like WW should be discarded because Superman does everything she does.

Wonderman still has a place and function on the Avengers even when Thor is there.

This thread is not me bashing on Batman, far from it. I like Batman as a character, but when you have god like beings that can do anything you can, what good are you?

PR mentioned Sherlock, what good is Sherlock when you put him against a being like Superman?

Well, he should be useless.

Theres no reason why Superman cant superspeed-think his way to any solution a million times faster than Bats.

He brings potato salad to the table.

He brings ... The Kick.

Batman also shows how vengeful, scheming, clever and determined, as well as creative and adaptive a nonuber human can be simply because he doesn't have powers and has to try that much harder to keep up.

He also brings The 'Tude and The Voice. As Superman himself once noted, no one ever makes fun of Batman for wearing underwear on the outside.

He brings the "human" element. So imbeciles can say "oh look we have an ORDINARY human doing these great things, awesome!". Even though Batman is so far from what the real world considers "human" it's not even funny.

Oh, he brings lots of money to the table. Also paranoia.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He brings money to publishers. Wonder Woman doesn't. Probably the most to the point answer!

But yeah, it's been mostly covered above. Flash may have a faster brain, but that can only help to a certain point when deduction and detective work are required. Flash is forensics, while Batman is forensics plus criminology plus psychology plus a host of other skills. He has the devious mind to understand other devious minds, the right amount of darkness to understand evil and the way criminals (and superbeings) think.

Strategy department? Bats has proven time and again that he can out think Wonder Woman and the others on the fly and come up with the winning play. Wonder Woman has great powers and skills, but no amount of training will make her as good as Batman in the other areas. And he is just as good at MA.

Green Lantern? Yeah his ring can do a lot, but I don't think it really provides applied knowledge. A lot of what Batman knows won't be found in a library.

Perhaps just as importantly Bats is the human element - and the JLA need that with all the other uber members. And to be in a team like that he needs to be damn good at everything he does. Sure Batman gets wanked by the writers sometimes, but so do Supes, WW and many others.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Wonderman still has a place and function on the Avengers even when Thor is there.

No.... he doesn't

Money and resources. Most of their headquarters and tech is either made or funded by Bruce. Also his Intel is second to none. The GL ring is a database for the entire universe yet only covers the big targets while batman has information on criminals and targets that wouldn't be pegged on the ring

Originally posted by SquallX
I know this isn't a versus thread, but since this section gets the most flow, i thought I'll put it here.

Like the title says, what does Batman really brings to the table in the schemes of things. I would like an actually reasoning why he's useful and not that he's the Batman answer.

Authors for some reason thinks its smart of them to make the human out maneuver the superhuman beings. With Bruce being the ultimate plot device.

So lets' look at the main JL, and what they bring and compares it to Bruce. For this, were only using new 52.

Strategist- Diana was trained by the God of war himself, nothing Bruce come with that she herself couldn't thought off.

Detective- Barry is a forensics scientist. Not only that, since he's the Flash, he's brain allows him to do his job far better than Bruce. Anything Bruce could come up with, Barry would have already though of it.

Martial Artist- Again Diana's being trained by her mother, the Amazons, and Ares the God of War himself.

knowledge- People always claimed how knowledgeable Bruce is, yet forgets there's a guy with a ring that as knowledge about the universe.

So again, what it is that Bruce brings that makes him such a powerful force that the authors makes the other Leagues act stupid around him and magically forgets there powers?
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/92/db/5f/92db5fc745a45c30cc34d0cabad32daf.jpg

Originally posted by Scoobless
No.... he doesn't



What if Thor is in the fight against someone he can't beat easily and there are other heavy hitters then Wonder Man does the job because Thor is busy fighting someone else. Is there a person that Batman can beat that most if not all of the others couldn't that's the question.

Batman is the General, he doesn't need to fight, that's for the grunts.

Is it not usually the General that the enemy goes after plus he doesn't think that way he thinks he has to fight most if not all of the time.

More than Superman, period.

Originally posted by golem370
What if Thor is in the fight against someone he can't beat easily and there are other heavy hitters.

Iron Man, Vision, Hyperion, Blue Marvel, Namor, Hulk, Red HUlk, Herc, Ms Marvel, etc... even Wolverine can delay / defeat some heavy hitting fighters.

An abundance of brawlers isn't a problem for the Avengers.

Originally posted by SquallX
This thread is not me bashing on Batman, far from it. I like Batman as a character, but when you have god like beings that can do anything you can, what good are you?

PR mentioned Sherlock, what good is Sherlock when you put him against a being like Superman?

Superman isn't a detective. Even taking in to account that he's a pretty good investigative reporter, it still doesn't make him as good at using any information he finds as Batman is.

Having all of the information isn't the same as putting two and two together.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Iron Man, Vision, Hyperion, Blue Marvel, Namor, Hulk, Red HUlk, Herc, Ms Marvel, etc... even Wolverine can delay / defeat some heavy hitting fighters.

An abundance of brawlers isn't a problem for the Avengers.

Blue Marvel and Red hulk were avengers?

Those all weren't on at the same time right?

Originally posted by golem370
Is it not usually the General that the enemy goes after plus he doesn't think that way he thinks he has to fight most if not all of the time. No, it's not usually the General the enemy goes after.

Nope, he thinks he has to win, him fighting is usually a small part of that.

What Batman brings is the insight to the supervillain mind that the others lack.

Wonder Woman? Please show some feat of Ares' supposed tactical acumen. Even then, DCU Ares has always been about the conflict, the death, the aggression, rather than the strategy. I know it is Marvel Ares, but he says it best:



Barry? Sure, he can think up of a million scenarios. And choose what he BELIEVES is the correct response.

Doesn't mean that it would be the right one. He can still freeze up. Not to mention, you can read all the books you want on the criminal mind - doesn't mean you'd be an expert on how to out-maneuver Lex Luthor. Not to mention, a forensic scientist deals with crime AFTER it happens. Pretty useless if you want to stop the next event. Additionally, it means jack and squat when dealing with the psychology of crime - which is what being a detective is really all about.

Cyborg? He's a scientist. If I wanted to go on a quiz show, he'd be my backup. Figuring out where crime will next occur? Sure, he could crunch the probabilities. But dealing with an insane girl with a Power Ring? Batman would know which psychological buttons to push to make her stand down.

GL with his ring? The Oan Guardians know almost nothing about Earth and its humans - witness how many times they are surprised yet again by how unpredictable Hal Jordan/Guy Gardner was. Sure, they could describe the chemical composition of the atmosphere, how many animals were within a 5km radius of you - but a ring would be useless at telling you why someone was doing what they did.

People have already said a lot of what I've said. But I'd another item to the list. He brings respect, and is willing to take command in the field, which would be pretty damn important when you're in battle. Superman CAN lead, and he DOES inspire, but he is willing to take a backseat. That is his nature. Barry could crunch a billion scenarios, but would the League blindly follow him? Hal would gladly step up to the plate - but despite his leadership in the GL Corps, the others wouldn't really follow him in the same way they'd follow Bats.

Originally posted by Mindset
He brings all the boys to the yard.

Lol, apparently.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Blue Marvel and Red hulk were avengers?

Yeah, Red Hulk featured a lot in Avengers V4

Blue Marvel was in Mighty Avengers V2
Originally posted by golem370
Those all weren't on at the same time right?

No... well, maybe during some big event.

You could probably answer this in a number of different ways.

For one Batman is one of DC's most lucrative IPs if not the most. So from a company perspective you want him in for sales.

From a narrative perspective he is the most often the closest relatable character to the readers so having him in the books gives us someone of our 'level' to root for. Even though he is far from normal in anything.

From a team perspective he has always been shown to be one of the better thinkers both from an inventive point and a calculate the future standpoint.

You could argue each of the other JL members has feats that could show why that doesn't matter but that is how it has been portrayed. Or if it makes you feel better you could say that since Batman is the only 'mortal' of them that he has a unique perspective that the other members simply can not relate to which allows him to think outside of the box and come up with solutions no one else would. And he has the skill and resources to pull them off.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Blue Marvel and Red hulk were avengers?

Rulk yes. Bendis put him in the main Avengers team around Heroic Age / def. before Fear Itself.

BM just recently was a member of Cage's Black Avengers "Blavengers", I believe.

He's the most focused. For everyone else, fighting crime/monsters is a Parkeresque power/responsibility thing. For him, it just something that needs to be done and he doesn't trust anyone else to do it.

He doesn't get as distracted by friendships and relationships as others, and sometimes that singlemindedness saves the whole world when others just can't take that last risk.