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Scenario #1:
Round 1: Superman vs. Invincible
Round 2: Superman vs. Invincible+Omni-Man
Round 3: Superman vs. Invincible+Omni-Man+Conquest
Round 4: Superman vs. Invincible+Omni-Man+Conquest+Battle Beast
Round 5: Superman vs. Invincible+Omni-Man+Conquest+Battle Beast+Thragg

Scenario #2:
Same combatants. The only difference is that Thragg is Superman's first opponent.


Stips:
-DCnU Superman.
-Fight takes place on, and is confined to, earth.
-Assume the teams function well together.
-Everyone on the field fights in character.
-Combatants start each round fresh.


How far does Supes get in both scenarios?

Supes bench pressing for 5 days weight equivalent to the entire planet seems to be superior to anything Invincible or the others have done.

This isn't a bench-pressing contest. That said, Omni-Man, Invincible, and Conquest are each around Supreme-level. Thragg and Battle Beast are both FAR beyond that.

#SomethingToConsider

Originally posted by Galan007
This isn't a bench-pressing contest. That said, Omni-Man, Invincible, and Conquest are each around Supreme-level. Thragg and Battle Beast are both FAR beyond that.

#SomethingToConsider

I never said it was a bench pressing contest. That was called me giving an example of the kind of strength Superman has. You know, the whole "feats" thing.

Please don't cite Supreme fights, as Supreme is all over the place. His sister once basically moved the universe for christs sake. Show me strength feats on the level of what I posted for Superman. I know it took at least 3 people to even fly through a planet to destroy it, and even then they also had some help from that space laser thingy(unless I'm forgetting something).

Also could of sworn I remember Invincible being able to draw blood from Thragg via his hits.

Originally posted by Surtur
I never said it was a bench pressing contest. That was called me giving an example of the kind of strength Superman has. You know, the whole "feats" thing. ...Yet I mention the Supreme fight(you know, the whole "feats" thing), and you swiftly dismiss it, lol?

Double-standard, much?

Originally posted by Surtur
Please don't cite Supreme fights, as Supreme is all over the place. His sister once basically moved the universe for christs sake. Show me strength feats on the level of what I posted for Superman. I know it took at least 3 people to even fly through a planet to destroy it, and even then they also had some help from that space laser thingy(unless I'm forgetting something). This was the villain archetype version of Supreme, specifically--as made clear in the issues themselves.

Originally posted by Surtur
Also could of sworn I remember Invincible being able to draw blood from Thragg via his hits. Yep, Invincible's all-out punches drew a trickle of blood. However, Thragg allowed said punches to make contact. He wanted Invincible to realize how inferior he was before being effortlessly stomped--a stompage that rendered Invincible unconscious for 2 weeks, btw. That's... Quite something, given Mark's uber HF.

Also, Invincible beat Conquest, twice. His punches obviously pack quite a wallop. Also(x2), I'm not saying any one...or two...or even three of the combatants are necessarily on par with Superman. Ergo the "stacking" nature of this thread.

Nice sig Galan. He stops at 2.

Originally posted by Galan007
...Yet I mention the Supreme fight(you know, the whole "feats" thing), and you swiftly dismiss it, lol?

Double-standard, much?

Consistent feats, why does this need to be said? Supreme at the high end is so far above anything done in Invincible it is not even funny.



Whether he let himself get hit or not is irrelevant. Nu Supes is physically more powerful then Invincible. The point of bringing it up was to show he can hurt even one of the most durable people here just fine.



I know he beat Conquest, but Conquest wasn't on the level of Nu Superman.

He wins every round except 5

Originally posted by Surtur
Consistent feats, why does this need to be said? Supreme at the high end is so far above anything done in Invincible it is not even funny. Why did you ignore this portion of my last post?:
Originally posted by Galan007
This was the villain archetype version of Supreme, specifically--as made clear in the issues themselves.
I told you the specific version of Supreme that Omni-Man stalemated. Are you intentionally trying to argue with me, or what?

Originally posted by Surtur
Whether he let himself get hit or not is irrelevant. Nu Supes is physically more powerful then Invincible. The point of bringing it up was to show he can hurt even one of the most durable people here just fine. I have no doubt that Superman's punches could injure Thragg IF he just sat there and allowed Supes to punch his face... Pretty much any sub-Skyfather would be injured under the same circumstances, actually. srsly

Although it's worth noting that when Thragg got serious, he no-sold Invincible's punches w/o even flinching.

Originally posted by Surtur
I know he beat Conquest, but Conquest wasn't on the level of Nu Superman. Conquest was still>Omni-Man, which means he was > Supreme. That considered, Invincible beating him is very impressive.

Eh, I don't think ABC comparison like that would work considering it was a crossover.

But for their strength level, their durability really sucks. I guess he stops at round 4 or something.

He would beat Thragg however.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Eh, I don't think ABC comparison like that would work considering it was a crossover. Canon crossover. Perfectly usable.

The Viltrumites are vulnerable to sonics and also not as fast, strong, versatile or durable as Clark. Battle Beast showed his mettle but will go down as well even with his and Thragg's current showings. The Viltrumites and BB only have blood soak superiority but that does not make the difference here. In a comic Superman would struggle to face against even three of these Viltrumites without weakness exploitation. In a forum fight however Clark should win all these scenarios with majorities due to being significantly enhanced versions of all the opposing contestants in tandem. This all being said Invincible is an example of what a type of quasi realistic/dystopic superman character driven story is done right and what comics in general should strive to be.

Originally posted by Galan007
Canon crossover. Perfectly usable.
Is it? I don't think Nolan and Supreme knowing each other and the past works of each other works in the context of both universes.

They are from different earths but acted like they knew each other for years.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is it? I don't think Nolan and Supreme knowing each other and the past works of each other works in the context of both universes.

They are from different earths but acted like they knew each other for years. Here's what Kirkman himself had to say about the Nolan/Supreme encounter, as well as inter-company interactions in general:
http://s4.postimg.org/klduw0w25/Untitled.png

So yeah, the Supreme crossover is definitely canon.

This also helps explain why/how Invincible #60 canonically featured characters like: The Darkness, Witchblade, Pitt, Spawn, Madman, etc. etc. Hell, Mark even had a canon crossover with Spider-Man, during Marvel Team-Up #14 (2006.) The Invincible Universe has no real boundaries where crossover canonicity is concerned... Especially with haxxed characters like Angstrom Levy running around.

Where would you place Supreme Galan?

Omni-Man stalemated a specific version of Supreme, designated 'mean' Supreme. This classic version of Supreme was stated to be "the most powerful Supreme of them all!":
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228398_supreme-64-16.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228399_supreme-64-17.jpg

'Mean' Supreme's superiority over the others was clearly displayed when he easily killed a large group of rogues that had just been stomping the entire Supreme family... In the space of 2 pages:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228400_supreme-64-18.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228401_supreme-64-19.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228402_supreme-64-20.jpg


'Mean' Supreme was also beating the bejesus out of Suprema, until Omni-Man intervened. Additionally, he killed the villain Khromium, along with every being on his planet, after absorbing the power of some laser fire. He then proceeded to physically rip completely through the planet itself and throw Khromium into a star.


He's definitely herald-level, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Scenario #1:
Round 1: Superman vs. Invincible
Round 2: Superman vs. Invincible+Omni-Man
Round 3: Superman vs. Invincible+Omni-Man+Conquest
Round 4: Superman vs. Invincible+Omni-Man+Conquest+Battle Beast
Round 5: Superman vs. Invincible+Omni-Man+Conquest+Battle Beast+Thragg

Scenario #2:
Same combatants. The only difference is that Thragg is Superman's first opponent.


Stips:
-DCnU Superman.
-Fight takes place on, and is confined to, earth.
-Assume the teams function well together.
-Everyone on the field fights in character.
-Combatants start each round fresh.


How far does Supes get in both scenarios? According to the law of Carver, the first fight is the hardest one.

Rounds 2-5 are cakewalks in comparison, for both scenarios.

Originally posted by Galan007
Omni-Man stalemated a specific version of Supreme, designated 'mean' Supreme. This version of Supreme was stated to be "the most powerful Supreme of them all!":
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228398_supreme-64-16.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228399_supreme-64-17.jpg

'Mean' Supreme's superiority over the others was clearly displayed when he easily killed an entire team of baddies that had just been stomping the entire Supreme family... In the space of 2 pages:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228400_supreme-64-18.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228401_supreme-64-19.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228402_supreme-64-20.jpg


'Mean' Supreme also killed the villain Khromium, along with every being on his planet, after absorbing the power of some laser fire. He then proceeded to rip completely through the planet itself.


He's definitely herald-level, imo. I'm not that familiar with the Supreme universe so I don't know how good a of a feat beating the Supreme family is. Although someone said earlier that one of them pushed a Universe?!?!?! Which based on what I know about the Invincible Universe characters seems weird to me any of them could be the equal of a Universe pusher.

But yeah if you rip a planet in half you are most definitely herald level.

Originally posted by Galan007
Here's what Kirkman himself had to say about the Nolan/Supreme encounter, as well as inter-company interactions in general:
http://s4.postimg.org/klduw0w25/Untitled.png

So yeah, the Supreme crossover is definitely canon.

This also helps explain why/how Invincible #60 canonically featured characters like: The Darkness, Witchblade, Pitt, Spawn, Madman, etc. etc. Hell, Mark even had a canon crossover with Spider-Man, during Marvel Team-Up #14 (2006.) The Invincible Universe has no real boundaries where crossover canonicity is concerned... Especially with haxxed characters like Angstrom Levy running around.
OK, if the writer intended it to be canon, who am I to argue with? Originally posted by Galan007
Omni-Man stalemated a specific version of Supreme, designated 'mean' Supreme. This classic version of Supreme was stated to be "the most powerful Supreme of them all!":
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228398_supreme-64-16.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228399_supreme-64-17.jpg

'Mean' Supreme's superiority over the others was clearly displayed when he easily killed a large group of rogues that had just been stomping the entire Supreme family... In the space of 2 pages:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228400_supreme-64-18.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228401_supreme-64-19.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228402_supreme-64-20.jpg


'Mean' Supreme was also beating the bejesus out of Suprema, until Omni-Man intervened. Additionally, he killed the villain Khromium, along with every being on his planet, after absorbing the power of some laser fire. He then proceeded to physically rip completely through the planet itself and throw Khromium into a star.


He's definitely herald-level, imo.
See, that's why I'm hesitant to think Supreme vs Nolan an average for Nolan. Kirkman himself never showed Nolan to be that level to the point he can just shrug off Supreme level punches. Even noob Invincible could bloody Nolan with punches and drew blood from Thragg himself.

Basically it's a very high showing for Nolan and extrapolating entire Invincible universe on it is a mistake IMO.

Originally posted by Newjak
But yeah if you rip a planet in half you are most definitely herald level. He may have still been amped(by absorbing laser fire) when he did that. Depends whether or not you think he expended that extra power when he unleashed the "scorched earth" blast on Khromium's world, which was powerful enough to kill all of its inhabitants.

Here's the scene, if you're interested:
http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228495_supreme-068-11.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228496_supreme-068-12.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228499_supreme-068-13.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228500_supreme-068-14.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228501_supreme-068-17.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228504_supreme-068-18.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/23228506_supreme-068-19.jpg

Supreme is amped by the laser fire in scans 1-3, impales Khromium with his fist and unleashes the planet-wide 'scorched earth' blast in scans 4-5, and then shreds through the entire planet and throws Khromium into a star in scans 6-7.


Either way, those feats aren't why I think he's herald-level.

Originally posted by abhilegend
OK, if the writer intended it to be canon, who am I to argue with?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Basically it's a very high showing for Nolan and extrapolating entire Invincible universe on it is a mistake IMO. It is a high showing for Nolan. Just like Mark beating Conquest or bloodying Thragg's lip is a high showing for Mark. Viltrumites have always been able to step outside their perceived weight class when they need to, though. The Supreme encounter was simply one of those instances, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007


It is a high showing for Nolan. Just like Mark beating Conquest or bloodying Thragg's lip is a high showing for Mark. Viltrumites have always been able to step outside their perceived weight class when they need to, though. The Supreme encounter was simply one of those instances.

Yeah, it's not enough to portray entire Invincible universe as Herald level beings. Pitt actually overpowered Supreme once, I'm not going to argue he is Herald level or something.

Their own feats should be enough to determine this fight, we don't need to borrow from Supreme.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, it's not enough to portray entire Invincible universe as Herald level beings. Pitt actually overpowered Supreme once, I'm not going to argue he is Herald level or something.

Their own feats should be enough to determine this fight, we don't need to borrow from Supreme. I never said Supreme-level was their average. If that were the case, I wouldn't have felt the need to make this a stacking gauntlet. However, the Viltrumites can step-up to that level(and beyond) when the situation requires it--that much is fact.

Also, Supreme was depowered when he encountered Pitt. Just saying.

Originally posted by Galan007
I never said Supreme-level was their average. If that were the case, I wouldn't have felt the need to make this a stacking gauntlet. However, the Viltrumites can step-up to that level(and beyond) when the situation requires it--that much is fact.

Also, Supreme was depowered when he encountered Pitt. Just saying.
Alright. I'm not sure they can take too many punches from Superman if he gets serious. If he gets into "Imma going to rip everybody here in half" level brutality Viltrumite style, they are ****ed.

Their durability is the question mark here. As a group they are powerful enough to beat him though. Really undecided.

Stops at 2 or 3 in the first scenario.


Stops at 1 in scenario 2. **** all of y'all, Thragg is the man.

Regular Superman?
Scenario 1: Stops at 5
Scenario 2: Stops at 4

Originally posted by Galan007

Either way, those feats aren't why I think he's herald-level. What feats make him herald level in your opinion in that case.

Originally posted by Newjak
What feats make him herald level in your opinion in that case. Without getting into his feats from back in the day, 'mean' Supreme being stated to be the most powerful member of the Supreme Family, and the fact that he easily stomped Suprema, are more than enough to rank him in the Herald-tier, imo.

Okay Galan thanks for the info. I've never really read Supreme before.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
According to the law of Carver (...)

clears.

Beats the **** out of these pussy ass indie wannabe zom bitches.

Battle Beast = New cape for Supes
Thragg = New moustaches for Supes
Conquest = New arm for Cyborg (christmas present)
Omni Man = New throne of bones for Supes
Invincible = New boytwink slave for Supes' dungeon

He also scoops up their collective teeth (Which numbers in the millions according to Ottley's art) and offers free dental to everybody on DC earth.

You tried to be funny, at least.

Originally posted by Surtur
Supes bench pressing for 5 days weight equivalent to the entire planet seems to be superior to anything Invincible or the others have done. It's superior to anything Superman has done since.

Originally posted by welldone
clears.

Welcome to The House of El!

Originally posted by Galan007
You tried to be funny, at least.
It's not easy.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
It's superior to anything Superman has done since. That doesn't makes any sense.

Superman and J'onn pushing Brainiac's shop away is better than that though.