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Neck snap allowed.

The silver age boy or the old Hulk?

Close call.

not hulk....

Prime wins

Prime makes him puke, then busts on him.

Prime is a planet mover, Maestro isn't. Does anything else need to be said?

Originally posted by Surtur
Prime is a planet mover, Maestro isn't. Does anything else need to be said?



Weaker Hulk has planetary showings. Hilarious.

Originally posted by Surtur
Prime is a planet mover, Maestro isn't. Does anything else need to be said?

Well Maestro can't fly under his own power. That's not really a fair comparison to make.

Tell'em carv!

Maestro after a few broken planets.

Maestro has the potential sure. But his feats are no where near his potential and he gets swiftly ass hammered in his ass.

I guess it's all based on how powerful you view WM Thor imo.

Originally posted by carver9


Weaker Hulk has planetary showings. Hilarious.

Maestro's best on panel feat is..?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Maestro has the potential sure. But his feats are no where near his potential and he gets swiftly ass hammered in his ass.

You don't think he has the showings?

Originally posted by carver9
You don't think he has the showings? What would you use to say he can beat Superboy Prime?

Originally posted by Surtur
Maestro's best on panel feat is..?

Shrugging off a blast from a Herald/possible trans level being like it was nothing. Same being went insane and became one of the most powerful being in MU. Beat the breaks out of Merged Hulk with a couple of hits. Same Hulk thay Maestro nearly killed in a couple of blows stalemated Thor who was in Warrior Madness (please don't tell me I have to explain this to you). Planetary showings ain't crap. The weakest Hulk, Grey Hulk, crushed an asteroid twice the size of Hulk in one hit. Professor Hulk powered through a blast thay could knock planets out of orbit. Savage Hulk powered through an attack that could knock planets out of orbit. Current Hulk who is slowly turning into Maestro recent fight had him shaking the planet by punching a being in the face. Hell, a calm Hulk fought some amped pigs and was shaking earth. Current Hulk fought another Hulk and was shaking earth. Current Hulk was said as having the strength to juggle suns by the smartest man on the planet. Indestructible Hulk held a sun on his back. Indestructible Hulk punched at someone so hard that time reversed. Indestructible Hulk nearly overpowered a being that was fraying reality and time just by being present in MU. Hulk punching power exceeded that of Excalibur; an abstract weapon. Do I need to continue. Fts like this means nothing. I would give Prime the win here...a majority but it ain't because he moved a freaking planet. That's child's play.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
What would you use to say he can beat Superboy Prime?

Not beat but at least pull some wins. I think it was obvious Maestro was above Herald levels (I'm pretty sure I don't have to bring up the showings indicating this) and the same can be said about Prime. Both have their lows but I have as of yet to see Prime drop a Herald, a physical beast, like Maestro has done. Not once, unless I'm missing something. I'm talking about people like Black Adam, Hunter, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc... Maestro have fts like that. Well, at least to the point that he treats top tiers like fodder.

So... not much then besides collateral damage?

Also you're merging Maestros together. I believe it was made pretty clear that the Maestro who fought Genis/Spidey 2099 is not the same Maestro who is the "end result" of current Hulk, since he never met Spidey 2099 before.
Just because they're both future versions doesn't mean they're the same. Hell prior Maestro was supposed to be Merged Hulk while this one is supposed to be Doc Green.

Plus you're comparing an insane Merged Hulk who fought WM Thor to a Sunday fondue Merged Hulk. Yet you make multiple connections to his anger level in the same post.


Also Superboy Prime wrecked Superman in like a page.

Bran>Carver

Even on a bad day.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So... not much then besides collateral damage?

Also you're merging Maestros together. I believe it was made pretty clear that the Maestro who fought Genis/Spidey 2099 is not the same Maestro who is the "end result" of current Hulk, since he never met Spidey 2099 before.
Just because they're both future versions doesn't mean they're the same. Hell prior Maestro was supposed to be Merged Hulk while this one is supposed to be Doc Green.

Plus you're comparing an insane Merged Hulk who fought WM Thor to a Sunday fondue Merged Hulk. Yet you make multiple connections to his anger level in the same post.


Also Superboy Prime wrecked Superman in like a page.

In my post to you, I was using Maestro in general. I agree with you about current Hulk and Maestro but they seem tied together but I don't have definite proof. My argument (that was towards your post) is that Merged Hulk has fts of overpowering Herald level characters with ease.

I don't think Superman was dropped in his fight against Prime. Damaged, sure, ineffective, no.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Bran>Carver

Even on a bad day.

No arguments here. Bran is a great debater. When it comes to a lot of characters, he does have more knowledge than me but I have a lot of knowledge as well my friend.

Prime wins

Originally posted by carver9
In my post to you, I was using Maestro in general. I agree with you about current Hulk and Maestro but they seem tied together but I don't have definite proof. My argument (that was towards your post) is that Merged Hulk has fts of overpowering Herald level characters with ease.

I don't think Superman was dropped in his fight against Prime. Damaged, sure, ineffective, no. Using Maestro "in general" would be no different than just using Superman in general. Might as well apply pre Flashpoint's feats to post Crisis and vica versa Pizza piea.

And the feat you used was Merged Hulk at the pinnacle of his rage. Sure it's within Merged Hulk's abilities but that doesn't mean it was his operating range at the time when he fought Maestro.

He got his hand blown through and disappeared for a long period of time when he was only fighting Prime. When he came back he was a mess. The implication was pretty clear. This wasn't a case where it was a large battlefield and the focus was shifted to the battle as a whole as opposed to a single duel. This was Superman vs Prime and Superman got the shaft.

So the options there are:

Superman got knocked out
Superman ran and hid after getting batted away
Superman just got bfr'ed because he's slow as shit

Maybe he just sat there going "Mah hand mah hand!", but more than likely...

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Using Maestro "in general" would be no different than just using Superman in general. Might as well apply pre Flashpoint's feats to post Crisis and vica versa Pizza piea.

And the feat you used was Merged Hulk at the pinnacle of his rage. Sure it's within Merged Hulk's abilities but that doesn't mean it was his operating range at the time when he fought Maestro.

He got his hand blown through and disappeared for a long period of time when he was only fighting Prime. When he came back he was a mess. The implication was pretty clear. This wasn't a case where it was a large battlefield and the focus was shifted to the battle as a whole as opposed to a single duel. This was Superman vs Prime and Superman got the shaft.

So the options there are:

Superman got knocked out
Superman ran and hid after getting batted away
Superman just got bfr'ed because he's slow as shit

Maybe he just sat there going "Mah hand mah hand!", but more than likely...

Wait a minute; correct me if I'm wrong but Merged Hulk strength doesn't grow when he's angry. He's already at his max iirc. I could be wrong though but the angrier Merge got didn't result in him becoming more powerful.

When we see Superman again 'after' his fight against Prime he shows back up with a team bigger than what we can count. He couldn't have been sleep. Doesn't add up (think you see where this is leading). Moral is, there's no proof Superman was koed. If anything on panel goes against it (the team man, the team).

Prime.

Originally posted by carver9
No arguments here. Bran is a great debater. When it comes to a lot of characters, he does have more knowledge than me but I have a lot of knowledge as well my friend.

You have some, but I like seeing you get fisted by Bran.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You have some, but I like seeing you get fisted by Bran.

I don't get fisted by Bran. Bran is talking about a topic with me that I am highly familiar with. HIGHLY. I'm ready for him.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't get fisted by Bran. Bran is talking about a topic with me that I am highly familiar with. HIGHLY. I'm ready for him.

Ok but bring the lube, cause you will inevitable go carter at some point.

Want to correct something in my post. Merge Hulk was capable of amping...he states it here...

http://www.codiekitty.com/File/Hulk/Ch1images/stronger1.jpg

He just can't amp like his other personas. There's a cap on how much he can amp due to his controlled side, Banner. He kind of hint at it here...

http://i.stack.imgur.com/GDvKq.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute; correct me if I'm wrong but Merged Hulk strength doesn't grow when he's angry. He's already at his max iirc. I could be wrong though but the angrier Merge got didn't result in him becoming more powerful.

When we see Superman again 'after' his fight against Prime he shows back up with a team bigger than what we can count. He couldn't have been sleep. Doesn't add up (think you see where this is leading). Moral is, there's no proof Superman was koed. If anything on panel goes against it (the team man, the team). Well, let's go to my handy dandy notebook then instead of my phone.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Powers/ProfessorHulkAmping01379.jpg

And that team was with Brainiac 5 at the time at iirc another dimension. Superman had no ability to "go get them" At best he called them in. At worst they showed up randomly.

Even if Superman wasn't KO'ed, he blatantly admitted he could not beat Prime alone, hence the team. And then he got blasted aside while Prime was taking on the Legion. And then after Prime beat up some Legion members he instantly smashed through barriers Persuader's axe and Validus were hitting to miniscule effect. So yeah... that's a good example.

Well looks like Bran ghosted carver again

Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute; correct me if I'm wrong but Merged Hulk strength doesn't grow when he's angry. He's already at his max iirc. I could be wrong though but the angrier Merge got didn't result in him becoming more powerful. Originally posted by carver9
I don't get fisted by Bran. Bran is talking about a topic with me that I am highly familiar with. HIGHLY. I'm ready for him.

Originally posted by carver9
Want to correct something in my post. Merge Hulk was capable of amping...he states it here...

http://www.codiekitty.com/File/Hulk/Ch1images/stronger1.jpg

He just can't amp like his other personas. There's a cap on how much he can amp due to his controlled side, Banner. He kind of hint at it here...

http://i.stack.imgur.com/GDvKq.jpg

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Well, let's go to my handy dandy notebook then instead of my phone.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Powers/ProfessorHulkAmping01379.jpg

And that team was with Brainiac 5 at the time at iirc another dimension. Superman had no ability to "go get them" At best he called them in. At worst they showed up randomly.

Even if Superman wasn't KO'ed, he blatantly admitted he could not beat Prime alone, hence the team. And then he got blasted aside while Prime was taking on the Legion. And then after Prime beat up some Legion members he instantly smashed through barriers Persuader's axe and Validus were hitting to miniscule effect. So yeah... that's a good example.


Beat you to the punch. I had a feeling I was wrong about that...at one point he couldn't amp though but that was fixed some time after.

There's no proof he was koed though. None whatsoever. Every, and when I say every I mean every, top tier that has faced Prime...I'm talking about your bread and butter top tier, they are still standing. This goes from Superboy, to Martian Manhunter, all the way to Black Adam. He also had a long fight against Ion, someone that I think Maestro would crush (to each his own) and the only reason he gained am advantage was due to him hitting Ion inside of a led building.

Persuader ax is nice, still doesn't go against what I said. Never said Prime didn't fight teams, hell, Hulk has literally fought against every team in MU, that means nothing here. I'm discussing Prime showings against heavy weights and his track record isn't that great. Also, I think you forgot about the beginning of the fight with Superboy Prime and Superman... Superman had a clear advantage until his hand was burned through.

Prime overpowered Superman, Mon-El, Lar Gand and Andromeda at once too.

He beats the shit out of maestro.

Originally posted by carver9
Beat you to the punch. I had a feeling I was wrong about that...at one point he couldn't amp though but that was fixed some time after.

There's no proof he was koed though. None whatsoever. Every, and when I say every I mean every, top tier that has faced Prime...I'm talking about your bread and butter top tier, they are still standing. This goes from Superboy, to Martian Manhunter, all the way to Black Adam. He also had a long fight against Ion, someone that I think Maestro would crush (to each his own) and the only reason he gained am advantage was due to him hitting Ion inside of a led building.

Persuader ax is nice, still doesn't go against what I said. Never said Prime didn't fight teams, hell, Hulk has literally fought against every team in MU, that means nothing here. I'm discussing Prime showings against heavy weights and his track record isn't that great. Also, I think you forgot about the beginning of the fight with Superboy Prime and Superman... Superman had a clear advantage until his hand was burned through. You beat me to the punch, but you're still wrong, so...

Also as soon as I get off from having liqid shit I'll show you some feats.

And Superboy famously died... and lost before that. And MM got KO'd twice. Hell he burned Grundy to a skeleton, and beat up Hal and Guy as well as a whole bunch of GLs.
As well as Sodamy was specifically using the full Ion power as well as Daxamite in that fight. Then it was just the Ion power, an above Ring level amp.

The beginning of the fight had Prime ruin Superman until Superman rammed him out of the city and had him in a hold. Because you actually have to go an issue back to see the beginning of the fight... and according to your logic Superman was winning until he wasn't. So... comics in other words.

But yes, I don't have an actual page showing Superman is KO'ed. An implication, but not an actual page. However if you're now a fact only gentleman, I can show you the whole fight and we can judge it by who "won" ignoring a KO. I'm sure that will be whimsical.

So I'm going to wipe my ass here and I'll go back to my laptop.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You beat me to the punch, but you're still wrong, so...

Also as soon as I get off from having liqid shit I'll show you some feats.

And Superboy famously died... and lost before that. And MM got KO'd twice. Hell he burned Grundy to a skeleton, and beat up Hal and Guy as well as a whole bunch of GLs.
As well as Sodamy was specifically using the full Ion power as well as Daxamite in that fight. Then it was just the Ion power, an above Ring level amp.

The beginning of the fight had Prime ruin Superman until Superman rammed him out of the city and had him in a hold. Because you actually have to go an issue back to see the beginning of the fight... and according to your logic Superman was winning until he wasn't. So... comics in other words.

But yes, I don't have an actual page showing Superman is KO'ed. An implication, but not an actual page. However if you're now a fact only gentleman, I can show you the whole fight and we can judge it by who "won" ignoring a KO. I'm sure that will be whimsical.

So I'm going to wipe my ass here and I'll go back to my laptop.



I said I was wrong and I/carver9 caught myself.

Superboy death leaned more on the suicide/sacrifice imo. It wasn't Prime power that killed him.

Grundy sucks. He did work Hal, broke his arm I might add but they were still up and running.

Sodom didn't know how to use said power either and he was shocked 'during the fight' at some of the things he was doing. He was not familiar at all with his power and he was still able to hold his own against Prime. Hell, before getting knocked into the led building, he had the advantage.

Superman having him in the hold was still part of the beginning of the fight. Let's not pretend they had a full comic of their combat. Superman had Prime in a hold he was unable to break.

Of course Prime won the fight. Lol...that's not what we are talking about here.

Im sensing a gamma meltdown any Time.

Lol...no one here has made me melt down yet and it ain't going to happen either.

I agree with whoever carver said wins.

He said Prime. Prime it is!

I sensing the whisper of, "I'm not saying Hulk wins, but how does he lose?"

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...no one here has made me melt down yet and it ain't going to happen either. I heard Bran likes to be the first time whenever he gets the chance.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
I heard Bran likes to be the first time whenever he gets the chance.



Bran is about to have the longest post ever. I know him. He is writing it up as I type.

Prepare yourself then, don't let me down bro

Originally posted by carver9


I said I was wrong and I/carver9 caught myself.

Superboy death leaned more on the suicide/sacrifice imo. It wasn't Prime power that killed him.

Grundy sucks. He did work Hal, broke his arm I might add but they were still up and running.

Sodom didn't know how to use said power either and he was shocked 'during the fight' at some of the things he was doing. He was not familiar at all with his power and he was still able to hold his own against Prime. Hell, before getting knocked into the led building, he had the advantage.

Superman having him in the hold was still part of the beginning of the fight. Let's not pretend they had a full comic of their combat. Superman had Prime in a hold he was unable to break.

Of course Prime won the fight. Lol...that's not what we are talking about here. The issue is not of who tells you who's wrong. The issue is of you being wrong. It doesn't matter if you outdebated me so bad I was crying behind the screen, at the end of the day you are still wrong.
And why is that important? Well let me tell you why. It's important because I said it was the pinnacle of Prof Hulk's strength, as an aside, him turning into Banner when he got so mad Betty died doesn't go against that. It's important because if Prof Hulk is operating at peak capacity in one fight, then a fight where he clearly isn't means a completely different ball game. With all your statements of "calm" Hulk, this should be obvious. Maestro didn't fight the same Hulk that Thor fought.

Alright, but he also got KO'ed before that. Here's WG actually dragging his carcass away
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2004%2015.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2004%2016.jpg.html

So you're wrong on Superboy.

The same Grundy tanked a Mother Box exploding and only got mad about it.
And Hal's arm was broken because that's all Prime chose to do.

Alright, Sodomy had the advantage, etc. Let's go with that sure. Now, let's see Prime knock out the last Green Lantern Yat with centuries of experience, as well as two Mon Els and a shitload of other quite powerful beings:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20004-019.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20004-020.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20004-021.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20004-022.jpg.html

So, we move on Carver. You can hold your interpretation above others, but you can't hold it above that.

Full fight:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20002-025.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20002-028.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20002-029.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-005.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-006.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-007.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-008.jpg.html


Let's check out some other things though. Overpower Andromeda, Superman, and Mon El:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-021.jpg.html

Smashing through all three belts that the Fatal Five couldn't:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-023.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-024.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-025.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Final%20Crisis-%20Legion%20of%20Three%20Worlds%20003-026.jpg.html

Overpowering pretty much every hero there is. And Wonder Woman
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/totscsp_030.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/totscsp_031.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/totscsp_032.jpg.html

Oh but what's this? Knocking out the legendary Wonder Woman? No ****ing way!
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/totscsp_020.jpg.html

And this is admittedly an assumption, but considering MM doesn't appear again in the 10 or so pages and this battle happens right where he fought Prime, and this is like MM's best feat...
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2006%2021.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2006%2022.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2006%2023.jpg.html

However, we've already seen him KO MM:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2003%2028-29.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2003%2030.jpg.html



As for why that took so long, Photobucket is being really slow and I'm downloading a bunch of shit. Plus it kept saving the Tales of scans in my Onedrive for whatever reason. I'm sure you can relate.

But let me ask you a question carver:

Do I need to pull out a gay black example to show why Prime has better feats? Because I can make up one here if you'd like.

Originally posted by carver9
Both have their lows but I have as of yet to see Prime drop a Herald, a physical beast, like Maestro has done. Not once, unless I'm missing something. I'm talking about people like Black Adam, Hunter, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc... Maestro have fts like that. Well, at least to the point that he treats top tiers like fodder. Originally posted by carver9
Every, and when I say every I mean every, top tier that has faced Prime...I'm talking about your bread and butter top tier, they are still standing. This goes from Superboy, to Martian Manhunter, all the way to Black Adam. So...

We've checked off Manhunter, Superboy and Wonder Woman from this list. We can't use Superman because being implied to be KO'ed is not shown, alright. He does however cheap shot Kal L out here:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Prime/Infinite%20Crisis%2007%2009.jpg.html

Not that you'll count it I'm sure, but if you did that would only leave Black Adam. And if failing to KO Black Adam in one backhand puts him at an inadequate level then where does that leave us?

Is every other top tier he's KO'ed invalid because Black Adam wasn't able to be checked off the Carver hitlist? What about KO'ing 2, actually 3 Daxamites at the same time? One with the Ion Power? Is this not counted now?

Do we put all of Prime's showing below KO'ing Merged Hulk because of this, and why? Can you explain why this should hold more water Carver? Can you explain why Maestro's feats carve up Prime's after this? If you can, I would love to hear it dawgy. Especially considering you've shifted so much focus away from everything Maestro, and instead choose to try and downplay Prime.

This is an ass kicking of mega proportions.


The little brat wins 10/10.

Nice scans Bran...too bad you're going off topic. Like I've said, Prime has done well against teams...that's is not my argument here. I specifically said he has not dropped one 'in a one on one fight' that I'm aware off. Key word, dropped.

You brought up Grundy knowing his power level isn't consistent. I wouldn't consider him a useful source for your argument at all.

So Superboy was koed there? Come on Bran. The guy is smiling on the next panel before getting pulled away. I'll give you the Yat and Monel showings; even though it happened off panel. Whatever.

MM and Prime first showing? Come on Bran, that was a sneak attack and you know it was. The second encounter...yet again, no evidence to support he was koed. Doesn't matter though since you found the counter to my argument with Monel and Ion.

I never said that Prime didn't have better showings, that's why I gave him the edge here but Maestro handles Heralds (in single fights) better than Prime. Some of the stuff that gave Prime fits wouldn't have happened against Maestro. The guy punch too hard.

Originally posted by carver9
Nice scans Bran...too bad you're going off topic. Like I've said, Prime has done well against teams...that's is not my argument here. I specifically said he has not dropped one 'in a one on one fight' that I'm aware off. Key word, dropped.

You brought up Grundy knowing his power level isn't consistent. I wouldn't consider him a useful source for your argument at all.

So Superboy was koed there? Come on Bran. The guy is smiling on the next panel before getting pulled away. I'll give you the Yat and Monel showings; even though it happened off panel. Whatever.

MM and Prime first showing? Come on Bran, that was a sneak attack and you know it was. The second encounter...yet again, no evidence to support he was koed. Doesn't matter though since you found the counter to my argument with Monel and Ion.

I never said that Prime didn't have better showings, that's why I gave him the edge here but Maestro handles Heralds (in single fights) better than Prime. Some of the stuff that gave Prime fits wouldn't have happened against Maestro. The guy punch too hard.

What other heralds has Maestro beaten down?

Originally posted by carver9
Nice scans Bran...too bad you're going off topic. Like I've said, Prime has done well against teams...that's is not my argument here. I specifically said he has not dropped one 'in a one on one fight' that I'm aware off. Key word, dropped.

You brought up Grundy knowing his power level isn't consistent. I wouldn't consider him a useful source for your argument at all.

So Superboy was koed there? Come on Bran. The guy is smiling on the next panel before getting pulled away. I'll give you the Yat and Monel showings; even though it happened off panel. Whatever.

MM and Prime first showing? Come on Bran, that was a sneak attack and you know it was. The second encounter...yet again, no evidence to support he was koed. Doesn't matter though since you found the counter to my argument with Monel and Ion.

I never said that Prime didn't have better showings, that's why I gave him the edge here but Maestro handles Heralds (in single fights) better than Prime. Some of the stuff that gave Prime fits wouldn't have happened against Maestro. The guy punch too hard. So your entire point to diminish Prime's feats are that he didn't KO them one on one?

What the ****ing desperation mode?

I'm not even sure how to adequately explain how ****ing stupid that is.

"Well you see, Prime KO'ing three Superman level characters at the same time isn't actually as impressive as KO'ing one character in a one on one fight. Doesn't count."

The reason Prime is knocking people out in team format is because one ****ing hero isn't enough. Like sweet **** Carver, use your God damned head.

Post scans of Solomon Grundy dying in a weak attack like you're implying.

Alright, except Superboy went out cold there. Are you going to argue that one more punch wasn't thrown or something even if he didn't? He was clearly done. But it's a good thing he was shown out cold though.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/RealVSClone7.jpg

As for MM, how sneaky walking straight up to him.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/scan0022.jpg

But alright, I'll be there next time you use a character not appearing until another comic when he was right there, as evidence that someone got KO'ed.

I tried to mold my argument to your specifications, but your point is really stupid. Like lost for words stupid.

Also, you keep alluding to other fights where Maestro KO's heralds, but...
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What other heralds has Maestro beaten down?


I also like how you ignored Prime KO'ing your favorite DC character in Wonder Woman.

Not to mention - MMH has superspeed reactions. The sneak attack argument only works if you're using characters with relatively no superspeed - like Professor Hulk, as he's saving people.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not to mention - MMH has superspeed reactions. The sneak attack argument only works if you're using characters with relatively no superspeed - like Professor Hulk, as he's saving people. He had time to realize Prime wasn't a friend.

But we're missing the big picture here. Knocking out two or three Thors is meaningless. Knocking out one Thor however? Woah boy!

Which is why World Breaker Hulk's killing of numerous Mindless Ones isn't impressive in the least if we carve away at it. Bet he probably couldn't even beat one in a one on one fight.

Bringing up KO's in a one on team fight is off topic bullshit. Carver.

Originally posted by carver9
Shrugging off a blast from a Herald/possible trans level being like it was nothing. Same being went insane and became one of the most powerful being in MU. Beat the breaks out of Merged Hulk with a couple of hits. Same Hulk thay Maestro nearly killed in a couple of blows stalemated Thor who was in Warrior Madness (please don't tell me I have to explain this to you). Planetary showings ain't crap. The weakest Hulk, Grey Hulk, crushed an asteroid twice the size of Hulk in one hit. Professor Hulk powered through a blast thay could knock planets out of orbit. Savage Hulk powered through an attack that could knock planets out of orbit. Current Hulk who is slowly turning into Maestro recent fight had him shaking the planet by punching a being in the face. Hell, a calm Hulk fought some amped pigs and was shaking earth. Current Hulk fought another Hulk and was shaking earth. Current Hulk was said as having the strength to juggle suns by the smartest man on the planet. Indestructible Hulk held a sun on his back. Indestructible Hulk punched at someone so hard that time reversed. Indestructible Hulk nearly overpowered a being that was fraying reality and time just by being present in MU. Hulk punching power exceeded that of Excalibur; an abstract weapon. Do I need to continue. Fts like this means nothing. I would give Prime the win here...a majority but it ain't because he moved a freaking planet. That's child's play. Let's take a look at this, and retroactively add your argument in here.

First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but Maestro did not KO Genis, correct? No need, he didn't. Not only that, but Genis was nowhere near his insane levels there.

And he beat the breaks off of Hulk, which we'll get to a little bit of context later, but he did not KO him. Something which you're faulting SBP for.

In fact, outside of Exiles which I could check I guess, Maestro's only KO victory is due to breaking Hulk's neck.

Which Maestro needed a cheap attack to accomplish:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-011.jpg.html

Hulk got cheapshotted right before his second fight with Maestro with a weapon that could "kill" Maestro. And Maestro didn't even KO him either in that fight:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-030.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-031.jpg.html


And Maestro dies to a gamma bomb. Something later Hulks can utterly tank. Hulks who you're using in your post to show how much superior Maestro is to them:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-045.jpg.html


So, even following your logic, Maestro has no KO victories in one on one fights, and no KO victories in team battles. Everyone knows his one KO victory is due to a cheap attack, and thus by Carver law, it doesn't count.

So I ask you Carver, why the need to lowball Prime? Because Maestro has nothing?

Why is Maestro impressive when everything you've used against Prime would indicate Maestro is pathetic?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
He had time to realize Prime wasn't a friend.

But we're missing the big picture here. Knocking out two or three Thors is meaningless. Knocking out one Thor however? Woah boy!

Which is why World Breaker Hulk's killing of numerous Mindless Ones isn't impressive in the least if we carve away at it. Bet he probably couldn't even beat one in a one on one fight.

Bringing up KO's in a one on team fight is off topic bullshit. Carver.


I never said this. I actually agreed with you and said that you provided evidence of Prime knocking out 3 peeps. The rest of your post wasn't necessary because it wasn't based on our discussion.

As a Judge for this BZ.

Bran won.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Let's take a look at this, and retroactively add your argument in here.

First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but Maestro did not KO Genis, correct? No need, he didn't. Not only that, but Genis was nowhere near his insane levels there.

And he beat the breaks off of Hulk, which we'll get to a little bit of context later, but he did not KO him. Something which you're faulting SBP for.

In fact, outside of Exiles which I could check I guess, Maestro's only KO victory is due to breaking Hulk's neck.

Which Maestro needed a cheap attack to accomplish:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-011.jpg.html

Hulk got cheapshotted right before his second fight with Maestro with a weapon that could "kill" Maestro. And Maestro didn't even KO him either in that fight:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-030.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-031.jpg.html


And Maestro dies to a gamma bomb. Something later Hulks can utterly tank. Hulks who you're using in your post to show how much superior Maestro is to them:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-045.jpg.html


So, even following your logic, Maestro has no KO victories in one on one fights, and no KO victories in team battles. Everyone knows his one KO victory is due to a cheap attack, and thus by Carver law, it doesn't count.

So I ask you Carver, why the need to lowball Prime? Because Maestro has nothing?

Why is Maestro impressive when everything you've used against Prime would indicate Maestro is pathetic?

Look at my first post on this. The first one. It explains our dispute here.

Boom. Headshot. Go home Carver.

Originally posted by carver9
Not beat but at least pull some wins. I think it was obvious Maestro was above Herald levels (I'm pretty sure I don't have to bring up the showings indicating this) and the same can be said about Prime. Both have their lows but I have as of yet to see Prime drop a Herald, a physical beast, like Maestro has done. Not once, unless I'm missing something. I'm talking about people like Black Adam, Hunter, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc... Maestro have fts like that. Well, at least to the point that he treats top tiers like fodder.

Here is my post. Maestro dropped Professor Hulk in a couple of hits. Never said ko but PH was struggling to move. His showing against Genis was good as well. Not a ko but it's obvious he was above him and Herald levels. I then state that some of the things that gave Prime a fight wouldn't have happened to Maestro and Superboy is a Prime example of this. Hell, I even gave Prime the majority here.

Bran busted all over Carvers face in a ATM style

Maestro doesn't gets a single win here.

Originally posted by carver9
Here is my post. Maestro dropped Professor Hulk in a couple of hits. Never said ko but PH was struggling to move. His showing against Genis was good as well. Not a ko but it's obvious he was above him and Herald levels. I then state that some of the things that gave Prime a fight wouldn't have happened to Maestro and Superboy is a Prime example of this. Hell, I even gave Prime the majority here. And yet you argue against the Superboy/Superman showings as if them being KO'ed means anything when they clearly lost the fight. Yet you make exceptions for Maestro.

But let's see how your logic holds up when you specifically know about these two fights:


Originally posted by carver9
There's no proof he was koed though. None whatsoever. Every, and when I say every I mean every, top tier that has faced Prime...I'm talking about your bread and butter top tier, they are still standing. This goes from Superboy, to Martian Manhunter, all the way to Black Adam. He also had a long fight against Ion, someone that I think Maestro would crush (to each his own) and the only reason he gained am advantage was due to him hitting Ion inside of a led building. Originally posted by carver9
Nice scans Bran...too bad you're going off topic. Like I've said, Prime has done well against teams...that's is not my argument here. I specifically said he has not dropped one 'in a one on one fight' that I'm aware off. Key word, dropped.

So Superboy was koed there? Come on Bran. The guy is smiling on the next panel before getting pulled away.



The amount of ****ing goalposts you're moving, and changing arguments, and dropping arguments is absolutely astounding.

This is actually difficult for me to actually put into words. It's just too much shit. You're just turning on a dime everytime you're faced with any opposition.

I don't even know why you're still trying either. Almost everything you said has been wrong.

Originally posted by carver9
I never said this. I actually agreed with you and said that you provided evidence of Prime knocking out 3 peeps. The rest of your post wasn't necessary because it wasn't based on our discussion. And why is this the only thing that counts? I mean, yes it's big. But if you're counting Maestro beating Hulk to "NOT A KO" after hitting him with a weapon meant to kill Maestro, then why are you not factoring in in your words "Prime winning against Superman"? Even after you admit this, you still say Prime hasn't dropped anyone.

Like... I don't know what's going on here. This is actually difficult for me to handle, too much almost. Do you want the last word here Carver or something? You can have it. Just know almost every ****ing thing you said is wrong.




Also who are these heralds Maestro has beaten? Again.

Is it my lack of sleep last night that makes Carver seem really incomprehensibly dumb difficult right now, or is anyone else getting that as well?

This is the worst I've seen him be personally but I'm willing to blame it on lack of sleep.

I said that you provided evidence of Prime beating 3 peeps...don't understand why that isn't enough.

Lol...I didn't change my argument once. I started off saying Prime does well against teams but to my recollection, he has not koed anyone worth noting in a one on one fight. Bran, that does not mean EXCLUDE who he has dropped in team battles because if he did drop Superman while he was on a team, it's obvious that would discredit what I said. I gave you your props on your post and even told you that you proved your point; what else do you want from me.?

I do not know what else to tell you bro. You've proven your point. Do you want to continue with this debate because I don't mind. Moral; our argument started off because I said Prime hasn't dropped anyone worth noting in a confrontation. You upped my statement by providing evidence of him defeated 3 peeps worth noting. I give you props, you still continue. WTF man.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Is it my lack of sleep last night that makes Carver seem really incomprehensibly dumb difficult right now, or is anyone else getting that as well?

This is the worst I've seen him be personally but I'm willing to blame it on lack of sleep.



You're debating against yourself. I've conceded a long time ago.

Nah, it's not just you.

Originally posted by carver9
I said that you provided evidence of Prime beating 3 peeps...don't understand why that isn't enough.

Lol...I didn't change my argument once. I started off saying Prime does well against teams but to my recollection, he has not koed anyone worth noting in a one on one fight. Bran, that does not mean EXCLUDE who he has dropped in team battles because if he did drop Superman while he was on a team, it's obvious that would discredit what I said. I gave you your props on your post and even told you that you proved your point; what else do you want from me.?

I do not know what else to tell you bro. You've proven your point. Do you want to continue with this debate because I don't mind. Moral; our argument started off because I said Prime hasn't dropped anyone worth noting in a confrontation. You upped my statement by providing evidence of him defeated 3 peeps worth noting. I give you props, you still continue. WTF man. You're still doing it... why are you still doing it in a post where you "concede"?

Originally posted by carver9
Do you want to continue with this debate because I don't mind. That explains it. Arguing to argue.

Also nope. For once I truly do not want to argue with you. You've quanned me good here. You've quanned me good.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You're still doing it... why are you still doing it in a post where you "concede"?

That explains it. Arguing to argue.

Also nope. For once I truly do not want to argue with you. You've quanned me good here. You've quanned me good.



Wasn't my intention. Overall you are right. I accept defeat, now can we get off of this lame subject please.

I'm nothing like Quan.

carver wants the last word even though he lost the debate and doesn't deserve it

Originally posted by carver9


Wasn't my intention. Overall you are right. I accept defeat, now can we get off of this lame subject please.

I'm nothing like Quan. Not that I want to keep this going, but what you're doing is diminishing every other feat in favor of the one thing you know you can't argue. As well as sidestepping everything else said. I'm not talking about you arguing, I'm talking about you specifically doing this. "IT" is this.

Are you wrong because of an addition of numerous feats, or are you wrong solely because of one single showing? IE, the Mon-El, Yat showing



That's all I want to know before I give up on you. Last worded reply to you here for a while anyway...

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Im sensing a gamma meltdown any Time. Originally posted by carver9
Lol...no one here has made me melt down yet and it ain't going to happen either.

Time predicts the future

Originally posted by carver9
I said that you provided evidence of Prime beating 3 peeps...don't understand why that isn't enough.

Lol...I didn't change my argument once. I started off saying Prime does well against teams but to my recollection, he has not koed anyone worth noting in a one on one fight. Bran, that does not mean EXCLUDE who he has dropped in team battles because if he did drop Superman while he was on a team, it's obvious that would discredit what I said. I gave you your props on your post and even told you that you proved your point; what else do you want from me.?

I do not know what else to tell you bro. You've proven your point. Do you want to continue with this debate because I don't mind. Moral; our argument started off because I said Prime hasn't dropped anyone worth noting in a confrontation. You upped my statement by providing evidence of him defeated 3 peeps worth noting. I give you props, you still continue. WTF man.

Comes true.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Not that I want to keep this going, but what you're doing is diminishing every other feat in favor of the one thing you know you can't argue. As well as sidestepping everything else said. I'm not talking about you arguing, I'm talking about you specifically doing this. "IT" is this.

Are you wrong because of an addition of numerous feats, or are you wrong solely because of one single showing? IE, the Mon-El, Yat showing



That's all I want to know before I give up on you. Last worded reply to you here for a while anyway...

You were right. My concern was you getting off topic. You posted fts outside of our discussion. I'm asking for characters that has been dropped, not him fighting people and doing well. You provided him taking out the people I proclaimed as him not showing on panel and I'm satisfied and if I could shake hands letting you know you edged me out here...I would. I disagree with SOME of it but the majority of your post was head on.

I'll say this. At least carver lights your cigarette after being ass reamed.

Lol...really?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Let's take a look at this, and retroactively add your argument in here.

First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but Maestro did not KO Genis, correct? No need, he didn't. Not only that, but Genis was nowhere near his insane levels there.

And he beat the breaks off of Hulk, which we'll get to a little bit of context later, but he did not KO him. Something which you're faulting SBP for.

In fact, outside of Exiles which I could check I guess, Maestro's only KO victory is due to breaking Hulk's neck.

Which Maestro needed a cheap attack to accomplish:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-011.jpg.html

Hulk got cheapshotted right before his second fight with Maestro with a weapon that could "kill" Maestro. And Maestro didn't even KO him either in that fight:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-030.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-031.jpg.html


And Maestro dies to a gamma bomb. Something later Hulks can utterly tank. Hulks who you're using in your post to show how much superior Maestro is to them:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-045.jpg.html


So, even following your logic, Maestro has no KO victories in one on one fights, and no KO victories in team battles. Everyone knows his one KO victory is due to a cheap attack, and thus by Carver law, it doesn't count.

So I ask you Carver, why the need to lowball Prime? Because Maestro has nothing?

Why is Maestro impressive when everything you've used against Prime would indicate Maestro is pathetic?


http://38.media.tumblr.com/d4c15b1267da0b97f5d359025f18c7c7/tumblr_n2mgbsGYu51r3kk98o1_500.gif

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'll say this. At least carver lights your cigarette after being ass reamed.

I gotta say haven't seen an ethering like that in awhile...gotta give carver his credit he took it like a champ, never pegged him as a submissive tho

Prime stomps

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Let's take a look at this, and retroactively add your argument in here.

First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but Maestro did not KO Genis, correct? No need, he didn't. Not only that, but Genis was nowhere near his insane levels there.

And he beat the breaks off of Hulk, which we'll get to a little bit of context later, but he did not KO him. Something which you're faulting SBP for.

In fact, outside of Exiles which I could check I guess, Maestro's only KO victory is due to breaking Hulk's neck.

Which Maestro needed a cheap attack to accomplish:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-011.jpg.html

Hulk got cheapshotted right before his second fight with Maestro with a weapon that could "kill" Maestro. And Maestro didn't even KO him either in that fight:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-030.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-031.jpg.html


And Maestro dies to a gamma bomb. Something later Hulks can utterly tank. Hulks who you're using in your post to show how much superior Maestro is to them:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-045.jpg.html


So, even following your logic, Maestro has no KO victories in one on one fights, and no KO victories in team battles. Everyone knows his one KO victory is due to a cheap attack, and thus by Carver law, it doesn't count.

So I ask you Carver, why the need to lowball Prime? Because Maestro has nothing?

Why is Maestro impressive when everything you've used against Prime would indicate Maestro is pathetic?



Prime stomps.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Let's take a look at this, and retroactively add your argument in here.

First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but Maestro did not KO Genis, correct? No need, he didn't. Not only that, but Genis was nowhere near his insane levels there.

And he beat the breaks off of Hulk, which we'll get to a little bit of context later, but he did not KO him. Something which you're faulting SBP for.

In fact, outside of Exiles which I could check I guess, Maestro's only KO victory is due to breaking Hulk's neck.

Which Maestro needed a cheap attack to accomplish:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-011.jpg.html

Hulk got cheapshotted right before his second fight with Maestro with a weapon that could "kill" Maestro. And Maestro didn't even KO him either in that fight:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-030.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-031.jpg.html


And Maestro dies to a gamma bomb. Something later Hulks can utterly tank. Hulks who you're using in your post to show how much superior Maestro is to them:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk%20-%20Future%20Imperfect%20002-045.jpg.html


So, even following your logic, Maestro has no KO victories in one on one fights, and no KO victories in team battles. Everyone knows his one KO victory is due to a cheap attack, and thus by Carver law, it doesn't count.

So I ask you Carver, why the need to lowball Prime? Because Maestro has nothing?

Why is Maestro impressive when everything you've used against Prime would indicate Maestro is pathetic?

Profiled. Pure genius.

Carver didn't even have a rebuttal to this.

Pure gamma destruction.

I'm sure that Maestro could move a planet if he wanted or needed to.

Still think Prime kills the green out of him.