The Flash Vs The Hulk, rep to rep

Invisible Sanji

Originally posted by carver9
Is this a ft contest because if so, I would say it is even. Even though Hulk lose, he does have some of the best strength fts out there. Even though Flash is the fastest he gets tagged almost every time he face someone slower than him. He lose to people far slower than him. So this goes both ways. Even though Hulk is the strongest there is, there are times where he is physically beaten. Even though Flash is the fastest there is, he tends to get dropped by people far slower than him. If it came down to fts, I would say it's even but when it comes to consistency, I would give it to the Hulk.

I would agree w/ consistency Hulk, but how could you define a strength feat that matches the Flash speed feats? Even if you could condense the masses of two galaxies and place one in each of the Hulk's hands (a dubious feat even for the Hulk), that wouldn't beat the speed-cheese the Flash is capable of. Examples of holding the "weight of the universe" or keeping two realities from collapsing together...that's just arguably near the scale of the Flash feats, if even.

For example, Super Prime cheese such as tugging planets, continuity changing punches, and dimensional imp hunting aren't strength feats that match top-end Flash.

carver9

Originally posted by Invisible Sanji
I would agree w/ consistency Hulk, but how could you define a strength feat that matches the Flash speed feats? Even if you could condense the masses of two galaxies and place one in each of the Hulk's hands (a dubious feat even for the Hulk), that wouldn't beat the speed-cheese the Flash is capable of. Examples of holding the "weight of the universe" or keeping two realities from collapsing together...that's just arguably near the scale of the Flash feats, if even.

For example, Super Prime cheese such as tugging planets, continuity changing punches, and dimensional imp hunting aren't strength feats that match top-end Flash.

Thats where we should come to a conclusion on what's Flash best speed ft and compare it to Hulk best strength ft. Example...Hulk fight against Ironclad was causing devistating destruction to an infinite amount of dimensions...wrecking it. I don't know Flash best which is the reason I'm asking.

Invisible Sanji

Originally posted by carver9
Thats where we should come to a conclusion on what's Flash best speed ft and compare it to Hulk best strength ft. Example...Hulk fight against Ironclad was causing devistating destruction to an infinite amount of dimensions...wrecking it. I don't know Flash best which is the reason I'm asking.

I would say racing cosmic teleporters across the universe. That's basically saying an infinite distance divided by no time. That's the best example of infinity as you can get.

Mindship

Originally posted by Omega Vision
DC has a HUGE amount of speedsters compared to Marvel. It's easier to list top tier heralds in DC who DON'T have FTL speed than who do. It's a testament to how fast Flash is that he still is the fastest man alive. But, however huge that number, is it as big as all the brick types Marvel has? (maybe, I don't really know).

In any event, let's assume DC has just as many speedsters. Then, as you've indicated, it's even more of a testament to how fast Flash is.

I also have a sense that, maybe, Marvel characters (or some, anyway) job more? Not sure.

The Nuul

Whatever Bran says, it's true.

cdtm

Originally posted by carver9
Thats where we should come to a conclusion on what's Flash best speed ft and compare it to Hulk best strength ft. Example...Hulk fight against Ironclad was causing devistating destruction to an infinite amount of dimensions...wrecking it. I don't know Flash best which is the reason I'm asking. Ufoes Ironclad??

Isn't he only cl70 or something? That sounds like a crazier feat for him then Hulk.

carver9

Originally posted by cdtm
Ufoes Ironclad??

Isn't he only cl70 or something? That sounds like a crazier feat for him then Hulk.

He was amped. All of the foes were.

DarkSaint85

Also, they were at the crossroads, which lessens the impact somewhat.

Besides, moot point. Not what the OP is asking.

He's asking if Hulk truly is the strongest one there is. Using a shared feat kinda defeats the point, lol. Its the same with the WBH feat....Betty was equal to Hulk at the time.

Is Hulk the strongest one there is in Marvel?
Is Flash the fastest man alive in DC?

THAT is what the OPis asking. And seeing as there are stronger in Marvel, but no faster men than Wally/Barry(hell, Wally finished a race BEFORE he even started), Flash wins this.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, they were at the crossroads, which lessens the impact somewhat.

Besides, moot point. Not what the OP is asking.

He's asking if Hulk truly is the strongest one there is. Using a shared feat kinda defeats the point, lol. Its the same with the WBH feat....Betty was equal to Hulk at the time.

Is Hulk the strongest one there is in Marvel?
Is Flash the fastest man alive in DC?

THAT is what the OPis asking. And seeing as there are stronger in Marvel, but no faster men than Wally/Barry(hell, Wally finished a race BEFORE he even started), Flash wins this.

Lol @ your crossroad comment.

Lol...Betty was amped by the wishing well to be as strong as Hulk.

Who has overpowered Hulk. OVERPOWERED!!!

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Lol @ your crossroad comment.

Lol...Betty was amped by the wishing well to be as strong as Hulk.

Who has overpowered Hulk. OVERPOWERED!!!

Betty being amped is moot. The fact of the matter is, she was as strong as Hulk at the time. Doesn't matter if she never has and never will hit those heights ever again....the fact is, she was as strong as he was.

Thing is carver, is Hulk the strongest one there is in Marvel? A simple question. Which is what the OP is asking. Remember, this is in ALL of marvel. Cosmics, abstracts, all of them.

Is Hulk strongest one there is?

That is the OP. No limits on tiers. Can't believe I have to hold your hand on this.

Now, is Flash the fastest man alive in DC?

That's all that's being asked.

DarkSaint85

Let me break it down for you.

You know Hulks' feats better than I.

Has Hulk overpowered an abstract?

Wally has outraced an abstract before.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Betty being amped is moot. The fact of the matter is, she was as strong as Hulk at the time. Doesn't matter if she never has and never will hit those heights ever again....the fact is, she was as strong as he was.

Thing is carver, is Hulk the strongest one there is in Marvel? A simple question. Which is what the OP is asking. Remember, this is in ALL of marvel. Cosmics, abstracts, all of them.

Is Hulk strongest one there is?

That is the OP. No limits on tiers. Can't believe I have to hold your hand on this.

Now, is Flash the fastest man alive in DC?

That's all that's being asked.

She was wished to be as strong as Hulk just like if a wish was made for someone being as gas as Flash...

Well, Hulk did almost overpower an abstract and has a ft of punching through something an abstract weapon was unable to pierce. smile

Take that as you will but both of them are not the fastest or strongest in their universe when you add Abstracts to the equation.

Sin I AM

Kinda spite, hulk may not be the strongest person on earth let alone the whole universe

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
She was wished to be as strong as Hulk just like if a wish was made for someone being as gas as Flash...

Well, Hulk did almost overpower an abstract and has a ft of punching through something an abstract weapon was unable to pierce. smile

Take that as you will but both of them are not the fastest or strongest in their universe when you add Abstracts to the equation.

Yes but no one has been wished to be as fast as Flash, lol. That's a silly argument to make. If Flash was as strong as Hulk, he'd be as strong as Hulk...but he's not. Lol.

Wally has been shown to be faster than an Abstract(not 'almost faster', either).....that means as per the OP, he wins lol.

riv6672

Originally posted by carver9
Is this a ft contest because if so, I would say it is even.
Yeah its more of an opinion contest, of which you provided some good ones, thanks.
Just want to see how posters think the two live up to their legends so to speak.

Branlor Swift

So what Carver is saying is that Hulk is stronger than Celestials and Galactus?

iceman24567

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So what Carver is saying is that Hulk is stronger than Celestials and Galactus? Plunge yourself deep into him again thumb up

riv6672

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So what Carver is saying is that Hulk is stronger than Celestials and Galactus?
He could be. Hulk i mean.

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by riv6672
He could be. Hulk i mean. Based on ?

riv6672

The fact that Hulk has no upper limit.

I've actually seen you ask this before, and no answer satisfied you, so, thats as far as i'm going to get into it. Too hot where i'm at for a prolonged circular argument.

iceman24567

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by riv6672
The fact that Hulk has no upper limit.

I've actually seen you ask this before, and no answer satisfied you, so, thats as far as i'm going to get into it. Too hot where i'm at for a prolonged circular argument. Hulk's had half a century of straight comics. If all you can name is potential standing then you should rethink your train of thought. By all means though, both the Celestials and Galactus are minor omnipotents. Even been called straight omnipotent.

I don't think that ever happened though. And I can guarantee if it did people had some shit reasons for thinking Hulk was stronger than Galactus.

But if you don't want to debate it then don't try to incite some discussion on it just to get more posts in your thread. Don't act like this falls on me just because you can't prove Hulk is stronger than Galactus or Celestials... let alone where that leads to; being the strongest there is.

DarkSaint85

Wally has outraced himself.

Has Hulk ever overpowered himself?

riv6672

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Hulk's had half a century of straight comics. If all you can name is potential standing then you should rethink your train of thought. By all means though, both the Celestials and Galactus are minor omnipotents. Even been called straight omnipotent.

I don't think that ever happened though. And I can guarantee if it did people had some shit reasons for thinking Hulk was stronger than Galactus.

But if you don't want to debate it then don't try to incite some discussion on it just to get more posts in your thread. Don't act like this falls on me just because you can't prove Hulk is stronger than Galactus or Celestials... let alone where that leads to; being the strongest there is.

Never said i didnt want to debate, but, i've seen you do this before and all YOU were doing was inciting people by not even considering their arguments. stick out tongue

Anyhow, when A Celestial or Galactus punches through a time storm or cause upheavals across multiple realities with their fists...get back to me.

riv6672

Originally posted by iceman24567
That is a shit reason erm

I dont give a shit. smile

iceman24567

Originally posted by riv6672
I dont give a shit. smile

Obviously otherwise you wouldnt have blurted out such bs

riv6672

Oh shit!

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by riv6672
Never said i didnt want to debate, but, i've seen you do this before and all YOU were doing was inciting people by not even considering their arguments. stick out tongue

Anyhow, when A Celestial or Galactus punches through a time storm or cause upheavals across multiple realities with their fists...get back to me. Give me a link of this, because it'd have to be a really stupid argument for me to not even consider it. And I don't take your word of this so called event.

Why would either need to do that when both can freely manipulate time? And I'm glad you brought up the severely contextual feat of Ironclad vs Hulk causing upheavals across multiple realities...

Because the Celestials were shown punching the universe into a multiverse...
http://imgur.com/HWgswQz

Better, worse?

riv6672

Image isnt loading for me but...i'll take your word for it. stick out tongue

Its cool that you compare the Celestials feat to a feat accomplished by a Hulk who wasnt the strongest ever seen though... smile

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by riv6672
Image isnt loading for me but...i'll take your word for it. stick out tongue

Its cool that you compare the Celestials feat to a feat accomplished by a Hulk who wasnt the strongest ever seen though... smile

It doesn't matter what I compare it to. That feat is beyond every single Hulk feat put together.

And the Crossroads feat was purely because Hulk was fighting Ironclad (giant pussy) at an interdimensional crossroads. The first scan even says it. There were pockets in the Crossroads that were turning both of them into kids too. It was not a stable place.
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_06b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_07b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_08b.jpg.html

Even Vector was able to repel 'everything' in the Crossroads
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_10b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_11a.jpg.html

Yet, what is left out is that Vector became a prisoner of a mere world's winds throwing the planet back in that same issue:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_17a.jpg.html

It's a good feat. But it is utterly eclipsed by anything of approaching skyfather let alone abstract. Hell, who he was fighting there tells the entire story. Ironclad, who at that moment was acting as an equal to Hulk. Hulk later easily beat him in the same issue without the same collateral damage.

And if you're using this as a Hulk feat, then it's equally halved by Ironclad, who you might as well be saying COULD BE above Celestial level. erm

riv6672

Of course it matters what you're comparing it to, and no it isnt.
What it is though, in its own rambling stubborn way, as you try so hard to lowball a physical being with comparisons to Celestials, is proof that Hulk's rep is legit, which is the point of the thread.
So, thank you. thumb up

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by riv6672
Of course it matters what you're comparing it to, and no it isnt.
What it is though, in its own rambling stubborn way, as you try so hard to lowball a physical being with comparisons to Celestials, is proof that Hulk's rep is legit, which is the point of the thread.
So, thank you. thumb up

What feats does Hulk have that combined are higher than physically splitting a universe into a full fledged multiverse? If you're going to continue making bold statements, then I'm afraid you're going to have to start backing it up at one point in time, or admit you're wrong.

I'm not lowballing anything. You making excuses for your inadequacies does not reflect on me. Hulk not being Celestial level is not lowballing him. It's merely stating a fact. And the fact that you tried to twist this "lowballing" around to try and make Hulk look good makes you calling my points lowballing look nonsensical in comparison. erm

But that makes literally no sense. If Hulk is weaker than Celestials, then he is weaker than a whole host of other things. IE, not even close to the strongest in the universe.

Here is the original OP in case you forgot.

Originally posted by riv6672
Which character, in their respective Universe, has been shown to live up to their tag line (fastest man alive, strongest one there is) the best?
Who's really earned their reputation?

Take in all feats/stories/high and low end showings since their debuts:

Which is funny considering you want low showings, but then you cry about me "lowballing" Hulk because I don't think he's stronger than Celestials?

But anyway, if Hulk is not the strongest, then he is not living up to his reputation, now is he?

But that's also a deflection on your part. You think me merely comparing the two falls into part of your plan, but it doesn't. Instead of admitting this little sequence is wrong:
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So what Carver is saying is that Hulk is stronger than Celestials and Galactus? Originally posted by riv6672
He could be. Hulk i mean.

You think everything falls into your trap.

It does not. Not only do the Celestials being far superior to Hulk diminish his reputation as "the strongest in the universe", but it also means you yourself are wrong. And Celestials being contrasted to Hulk would in no way raise his reputation in this thread, considering it utterly disproves the whole purpose of the thread in the first place, IE, Hulk is the strongest one there is.

Which means Flash wins in a rep off. It's that simple.

I'm using Celestials because they fall under "there is", and it's an easy answer to show Hulk's tagline is wrong. I could go lower and say Odin is also stronger if you want. I'm sure Zeus would make for a funny discussion.

riv6672

What i think is, you've been biased on this subject a LONG time.
I was doing a Google search on Celestials/Hulk just now, and an old KMC thread from 2007 came up: Hulk vs Celestial.
Your first post...
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Wow...

NO! HULK doesn't stand a chance... at all!

People wonder why Hulk gets so much hate, and yet, it's this very same shit that people try to pull that do it.

Hulk gets killed... really, pointless.
...shows you've been bitter about this since well before i got here.

But hey, thanks for all your input, and your opinion on Flash having the more deserving rep. You're a real mensch.

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by riv6672
What i think is, you've been biased on this subject a LONG time.
I was doing a Google search on Celestials/Hulk just now, and an old KMC thread from 2007 came up: Hulk vs Celestial.
Your first post...

...shows you've been bitter about this since well before i got here.

But hey, thanks for all your input, and your opinion on Flash having the more deserving rep. You're a real mensch. So me being possibly biased in your opinion does what? Diminishes my words? How can you equate this into anything I say?

But yes, I agree with everything you just quoted. Not that that proves I'm harboring grudges. laughing out loud

Though I think you failing to answer a completely reasonable post just because of a completely reasonable post made in 2007 (when Devilhulk kept making socks about how Hulk was the best) kind of says who's bitter about what. I've been stewing for 8 years because someone put Hulk against a Celestial. laughing out loud

It's not really an opinion though. It's a fact. The amount of people that are stronger than Hulk outweigh the amount of people that are even close to Flash's speed. Ergo, Flash's rep is more intact. You created a thread with one answer.

Good job on the deflection attempt. thumb up

The more things you completely abandon, the more solid your case is.

riv6672

Then i guess we're both happy.
Because to me, the fact that you've been bicthing about Celestial strength feats for a page and a half+8 years, makes you a bitter troll that just had to get that off his chest one more time again.

Branlor Swift

Yes I am the troll. Here's your post
Originally posted by riv6672
The fact that Hulk has no upper limit.

I've actually seen you ask this before, and no answer satisfied you, so, thats as far as i'm going to get into it. Too hot where i'm at for a prolonged circular argument.

Since that post we have you being too stubborn to accept anything. Too stubborn to concede even though you've dropped every point. And you've resorted to using an "8 year old" post in an attempt to troll me and projected your butthurt onto me. Because it's a well known fact I've been actively campaigning against those Hulk>Celestial posters the entire time.

Or I brought up the Celestials/Galactus as a barrier Hulk can't surpass. Then you thought maybe Hulk could surpass that, and now you're trying to deflect your utter inability to even attempt to tackle a point onto my longstanding rivarly with Hulk.

I don't even get how people get to these levels of mental gymnastics. First Hulk is stronger but I'm too stubborn. Next proving Hulk is weaker actually helps Hulk in this thread in some unexplained way. Next it's actually a Hulk downplaying attempt in order to rise up the Celestials.

In reality it literally doesn't matter because you can't even begin to remember what your thread is about.

Whether I love Celestials or hate Hulk that does nothing to diminish what I'm saying.
Whether Celestial feats are even close to Hulk's or not but still greater, that only hurts Hulk's chances in this thread.
And you being stubborn still is not on topic.

You whine so much about people dragging your threads off topic, yet when someone is completely on topic but you don't like the result you lash out like a candyless baby.
If Hulk is weaker than Celestials then that means he's weaker than thousands of beings within his own universe. That is the point. Your head is apparently on the same level as where it speaks of vb codes.

If Hulk is weaker than thousands of people then his reputation as the strongest one there is is a lie. The Flashes on the other hand only have a handful of rivals in their speed area.

It's not a tough concept. You do this everytime you make a shitty thread. Maybe make a good thread next time. Maybe don't act like a petulant child when you're proven wrong too. But tell me more about how this all boils down with my Celestial vs Hulk feud because you found a really old post. laughing out loud

While you're at it, you should find the old zopzop threads where he's defending Celestials and I'm against him. Maybe show I also hate Celestials while you're at it thumb up

For a guy who never actually has anything to add to anything, you sure get uppity about others.

riv6672

Thats a big ol' wall of text there.
But please, keep adding posts to my thread. Its what i've obviously incited you to do.

DarkSaint85

Well, rep to rep, just to cut through the posts - Wally has been shown to be faster than an abstract, whereas Hulk has been overpowered by an abstract. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

riv6672

Very succinct.
Thanks, DS.

Surtur

This is a no contest for The Flash, who usually ALWAYS lives up to his "fastest man alive" claim. If he doesn't he's usually in the top 2-3.

Even Hulk's best feats..you have more then 2-3 people with vastly superior strength feats.

Though especially since you are allowing Wally West feats...yeah, this hilariously goes in the favor of Flash.

carver9

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/101566/1891888-hulk242_15b.jpg

Hulk destroys a machine that has enough power to stop the entire Celestial race.

"But this is the power of the Hulk and there is no force stronger than him".

carver9

Originally posted by Surtur
This is a no contest for The Flash, who usually ALWAYS lives up to his "fastest man alive" claim. If he doesn't he's usually in the top 2-3.

Even Hulk's best feats..you have more then 2-3 people with vastly superior strength feats.

Though especially since you are allowing Wally West feats...yeah, this hilariously goes in the favor of Flash.

You admitted a while back that you don't read Hulk. Don't understand why you are posting in here.

Surtur

Uh so okay? Because it had the power to destroy Celestials that means..what? It is automatically a super tough machine?

Durability feats for the machine? How strong do you feel one needs to be to accomplish what Hulk did?

Originally posted by carver9
You admitted a while back that you don't read Hulk. Don't understand why you are posting in here.

Because for the past decade I've been on various versus sites with various feats trotted out for Hulk. Over and Over. Then this place has a hard on for Hulk, so you see feats brought up a lot for him here as well.

Blue Area Vet

Captain Boomerang

Surtur

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Captain Boomerang

A jungle snake.

Sin I AM

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yes I am the troll. Here's your post

Since that post we have you being too stubborn to accept anything. Too stubborn to concede even though you've dropped every point. And you've resorted to using an "8 year old" post in an attempt to troll me and projected your butthurt onto me. Because it's a well known fact I've been actively campaigning against those Hulk>Celestial posters the entire time.

Or I brought up the Celestials/Galactus as a barrier Hulk can't surpass. Then you thought maybe Hulk could surpass that, and now you're trying to deflect your utter inability to even attempt to tackle a point onto my longstanding rivarly with Hulk.

I don't even get how people get to these levels of mental gymnastics. First Hulk is stronger but I'm too stubborn. Next proving Hulk is weaker actually helps Hulk in this thread in some unexplained way. Next it's actually a Hulk downplaying attempt in order to rise up the Celestials.

In reality it literally doesn't matter because you can't even begin to remember what your thread is about.

Whether I love Celestials or hate Hulk that does nothing to diminish what I'm saying.
Whether Celestial feats are even close to Hulk's or not but still greater, that only hurts Hulk's chances in this thread.
And you being stubborn still is not on topic.

You whine so much about people dragging your threads off topic, yet when someone is completely on topic but you don't like the result you lash out like a candyless baby.
If Hulk is weaker than Celestials then that means he's weaker than thousands of beings within his own universe. That is the point. Your head is apparently on the same level as where it speaks of vb codes.

If Hulk is weaker than thousands of people then his reputation as the strongest one there is is a lie. The Flashes on the other hand only have a handful of rivals in their speed area.

It's not a tough concept. You do this everytime you make a shitty thread. Maybe make a good thread next time. Maybe don't act like a petulant child when you're proven wrong too. But tell me more about how this all boils down with my Celestial vs Hulk feud because you found a really old post. laughing out loud

While you're at it, you should find the old zopzop threads where he's defending Celestials and I'm against him. Maybe show I also hate Celestials while you're at it thumb up

For a guy who never actually has anything to add to anything, you sure get uppity about others.

Dont waste your time.

riv6672

I like that scan Carver posted.
But it begs the question, could the Celestials not destroy it?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Surtur
Uh so okay? Because it had the power to destroy Celestials that means..what? It is automatically a super tough machine?

Durability feats for the machine? How strong do you feel one needs to be to accomplish what Hulk did?

Because for the past decade I've been on various versus sites with various feats trotted out for Hulk. Over and Over. Then this place has a hard on for Hulk, so you see feats brought up a lot for him here as well.

This.

It was also designed to withstand the power of the Celestials - that does not mean it is successful, does it?

But, let's stop being coy, carver. Stop teasing me. Is Hulk stronger than a Celestial? Than the entire Celestial race? Y/n?

Surtur

Originally posted by riv6672
I like that scan Carver posted.
But it begs the question, could the Celestials not destroy it?

If Hulk could destroy it? Any single Celestial has firepower hilariously above Hulk. The only reason I could see a Celestial couldn't destroy it would be due to it being some anti-celestial machine. Sort of like I might be able to destroy a machine made of kryptonite easier then Superman, but it doesn't mean I'm on his level.

But then see, some silly people will take that and say "Hulk is stronger then Celestials lolz!!". Which, I will legitimately be able to make a horcrux afterwards, because seeing someone say that will definitely be taking a piece of my soul and ripping it off.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Surtur
If Hulk could destroy it? Any single Celestial has firepower hilariously above Hulk. The only reason I could see a Celestial couldn't destroy it would be due to it being some anti-celestial machine.

But then see, some silly people will take that and say "Hulk is stronger then Celestials lolz!!".

It was never tested.

I've just designed a bridge that can withstand my power. Unfortunately, I've never tested it. It's made of marshmallows and spaghetti.

Years later, a kid comes along and destroys it.

Does that mean the kid is stronger than me?

Surtur

By some peoples logic, yes..yes it does mean that.

carver9

Originally posted by riv6672
I like that scan Carver posted.
But it begs the question, could the Celestials not destroy it?

It was capable of stopping the Celestial race. Hulk still had the power to destroy said machine. Speaks volumes imo.

DarkSaint85

So, IOW, nothing to actually trump Wally being faster than abstracts?

riv6672

Originally posted by carver9
It was capable of stopping the Celestial race. Hulk still had the power to destroy said machine. Speaks volumes imo.

It does, but , DS spaghetti bridge is kind of a good point too, if a bit wasteful of good italian cuisine.
I'd gave to say any machine capable of harnessing and weaponizing the kind of energy it'd take to kill Celestials is apt to be incredibly strong.
I've used lots of fire arms and, you cant fire a bullet more powerful than the barrel can handle.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So, IOW, nothing to actually trump Wally being faster than abstracts?

What Abstract did Flash out race?

riv6672

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So, IOW, nothing to actually trump Wally being faster than abstracts?
Probably not.
DCs always been. "Bigger" universe.
But here's my question after all this...is Hulk seen as the strongest there is by the MU's meta community?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
What Abstract did Flash out race?

Death.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Death.

Scans?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by riv6672
It does, but , DS spaghetti bridge is kind of a good point too, if a bit wasteful of good italian cuisine.
I'd gave to say any machine capable of harnessing and weaponizing the kind of energy it'd take to kill Celestials is apt to be incredibly strong.
I've used lots of fire arms and, you cant fire a bullet more powerful than the barrel can handle.

True. But then, throughout history, we've seen so many weapons that, upon testing, explode or don't actually perform up to their design specs. Unless that machine has ACTUALLY withstood a Celestials' assault, who's to say that it would have been successful?

But going back to the OP - what Hulk did. Is it replicable by anyone else? If Odin was there, would he have failed where Hulk succeeded? Thanos? Galactus? A fully fed Galactus?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Scans?

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090614222056/theflash/images/f/f0/Black_Flash-1.jpg

riv6672

Is this what you meant, DS?
https://karlsmallwood.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/flash.png

carver9

I can't see your scan.

riv6672

Dang it, we posted back to back!

h1a8

Originally posted by carver9
Is this a ft contest because if so, I would say it is even. Even though Hulk lose, he does have some of the best strength fts out there. Even though Flash is the fastest he gets tagged almost every time he face someone slower than him. He lose to people far slower than him. So this goes both ways. Even though Hulk is the strongest there is, there are times where he is physically beaten. Even though Flash is the fastest there is, he tends to get dropped by people far slower than him. If it came down to fts, I would say it's even but when it comes to consistency, I would give it to the Hulk. This is not a feat contest. It's about who is portrayed as the best in that attribute in their respective universes. You simply can't compare strength to speed. It's stupid.
Anyway I would say Hulk is the strongest there is due to WBH. His feat was the greatest strength feat in Marvel (quantifiable).

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by h1a8
This is not a feat contest. It's about who is portrayed as the best in that attribute in their respective universes. You simply can't compare strength to speed. It's stupid.
Anyway I would say Hulk is the strongest there is due to WBH. His feat was the greatest strength feat in Marvel (quantifiable).

If that is your best feat for Hulk, than no, he's not the strongest.

Joint strongest, with Betty, who was his equal.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by riv6672
Is this what you meant, DS?
https://karlsmallwood.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/flash.png

Yes.

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
It was capable of stopping the Celestial race. Hulk still had the power to destroy said machine. Speaks volumes imo. Here is a Celestial reacting to the uber weapon that Hulk destroyed
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk243_05b.jpg.html

The Deviants are historically accurate with their assessments of the Celestials:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/03etern.jpg.html

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/04etern.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/05etern.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/06etern.jpg.html

That's from their first appearance. Jesus. Imagine if I looked harder. Like when the Celestials almost made them extinct.

And it's not like we haven't seen actual super weapons before against the Celestials. The Destroyer which is blessed by every God, and was built to straight up kill the Celestials for instance.
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Thor_300-17.jpg.html

Here it is farther amped by Odin and the life force of every Asgardian getting no sold and stopped mid swing:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Thor_300-28.jpg.html

I trust I don't have to show it getting destroyed when it was claimed to be indestructible in the same showing?

For contrast, let's see how Hulk does against a vastly weaker version of the Destroyer:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_09b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_10a.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_11a.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_11b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_14a.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_14b.jpg.html

Hulk appears quite a bit weaker, no?

Here a no name Celestials beats the Darkwalker, showing it manhandling him at the end:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20003-004.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20003-005.jpg.html

And Hulk. Surely Hulk doesn't get backhanded out when it's not even looking at Hulk...
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20005-013.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20005-014.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20005-015.jpg.html

h1a8

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If that is your best feat for Hulk, than no, he's not the strongest.

Joint strongest, with Betty, who was his equal. That Betty doesn't exist anymore. Hulk always has the potential to go WB.

carver9

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Here is a Celestial reacting to the uber weapon that Hulk destroyed
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk243_05b.jpg.html

The Deviants are historically accurate with their assessments of the Celestials:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/03etern.jpg.html

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/04etern.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/05etern.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/06etern.jpg.html

That's from their first appearance. Jesus. Imagine if I looked harder. Like when the Celestials almost made them extinct.

And it's not like we haven't seen actual super weapons before against the Celestials. The Destroyer which is blessed by every God, and was built to straight up kill the Celestials for instance.
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Thor_300-17.jpg.html

Here it is farther amped by Odin and the life force of every Asgardian getting no sold and stopped mid swing:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Thor_300-28.jpg.html

I trust I don't have to show it getting destroyed when it was claimed to be indestructible in the same showing?

For contrast, let's see how Hulk does against a vastly weaker version of the Destroyer:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_09b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_10a.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_11a.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_11b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_14a.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_14b.jpg.html

Hulk appears quite a bit weaker, no?

Here a no name Celestials beats the Darkwalker, showing it manhandling him at the end:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20003-004.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20003-005.jpg.html

And Hulk. Surely Hulk doesn't get backhanded out when it's not even looking at Hulk...
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20005-013.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20005-014.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20005-015.jpg.html

Lol...you posted an image of a Celestial walking up to a machine (that is built to destroy them) when Hulk has already destroyed it? Come on Bran. Don't understand why you posted the rest of those scans when it has nothing to do with the thread. Then you use one of Hulk lowest showings within the past 8 to 10 yrs to help your argument. One of the worst books ever. Come on Bran.

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...you posted an image of a Celestial walking up to a machine (that is built to destroy them) when Hulk has already destroyed it? Come on Bran. Don't understand why you posted the rest of those scans when it has nothing to do with the thread. Then you use one of Hulk lowest showings within the past 8 to 10 yrs to help your argument. One of the worst books ever. Come on Bran. Do you not know how to read? Gam watched the full power of the flame rise into the atmosphere after Hulk destroyed it and shrugged at it. This was a flame meant to challenge in your words "The entire Celestial Race" and it wasn't even worth anything to one. That's all.

The rest of the scans have as much to do with the argument as Hulk destroying something built to challenge and withstand "The Entire Celestial Race" does. The Deviants being boastful and getting swiftly put in their place. How is this not relevant to their construction? They simply do not know what it takes to stop a Celestial. This much is evident.

As well as common opponents. I'm not using completely untested against one of them feats. I'm using two opponents who they have in common. This would be the correct way to go about it, no?

Why is that even a low feat though? Do you maintain that Hulk should be a threat to a being that fought a Celestial for 3 days or something? What would your basis be for this I wonder? Surely it wouldn't loop back into "Hulk > the Celestial Race", and thus loop back into my scans?

And if you don't think a much more tried and tested object like the Destroyer is relevant to a random Deviant device with no prior qualifications, then you're out of your mind.

I know you like to simply pretend you can laugh away anything you don't like, but that's not going to work when you've already opened up the floodgates. You used a scan to try and say Hulk > Celestials. I am telling you with proof that that is not the case. "What does that have to do with anything?!" Gee I wonder.

I also like how you ignored DS' question of whether or not you think Hulk > Celestials.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by h1a8
That Betty doesn't exist anymore. Hulk always has the potential to go WB.

So you're telling me that Betty will never ever ever become Red She Hulk ever again? Bold words, hehe.

Hulk going WBH was under very specific circumstances. To say that he always has this potential is like me saying Betty can always be rewritten (especially with Secret Wars etc) to do the same.

h1a8

It amazes me how posters exaggerate to the point of lying with simple words such as 'vastly weaker'. See where Bran is wrong most is when he assumes Hulk has fixed strength. He post scans of Hulk being overpowered when Hulk is clearly not at his strongest. In HOTM it retconned Hulk to always be able to go WB. He doesn't do so because he would endanger many lives. So potentially Hulk is the physically strongest there is.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by h1a8
It amazes me how posters exaggerate to the point of lying with simple words such as 'vastly weaker'. See where Bran is wrong most is when he assumes Hulk has fixed strength. He post scans of Hulk being overpowered when Hulk is clearly not at his strongest. In HOTM it retconned Hulk to always be able to go WB. He doesn't do so because he would endanger many lives. So potentially Hulk is the physically strongest there is.

HotM did NOT retcon Hulk to always be able to go WB.

carver9

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Do you not know how to read? Gam watched the full power of the flame rise into the atmosphere after Hulk destroyed it and shrugged at it. This was a flame meant to challenge in your words "The entire Celestial Race" and it wasn't even worth anything to one. That's all.

The rest of the scans have as much to do with the argument as Hulk destroying something built to challenge and withstand "The Entire Celestial Race" does. The Deviants being boastful and getting swiftly put in their place. How is this not relevant to their construction? They simply do not know what it takes to stop a Celestial. This much is evident.

As well as common opponents. I'm not using completely untested against one of them feats. I'm using two opponents who they have in common. This would be the correct way to go about it, no?

Why is that even a low feat though? Do you maintain that Hulk should be a threat to a being that fought a Celestial for 3 days or something? What would your basis be for this I wonder? Surely it wouldn't loop back into "Hulk > the Celestial Race", and thus loop back into my scans?

And if you don't think a much more tried and tested object like the Destroyer is relevant to a random Deviant device with no prior qualifications, then you're out of your mind.

I know you like to simply pretend you can laugh away anything you don't like, but that's not going to work when you've already opened up the floodgates. You used a scan to try and say Hulk > Celestials. I am telling you with proof that that is not the case. "What does that have to do with anything?!" Gee I wonder.

I also like how you ignored DS' question of whether or not you think Hulk > Celestials.

I thought Tyrannus enhanced the machine. Thought he played a part in it as well? Also, I'm not going through a long debate with you again. A freaking ape stalemated Hulk in the same comic he was slapped away in. The writer gave Hulk no favors during that story line. You can use it if you want too. Overall,I disagree with your post and could go pages breaking it down but I just don't feel like doing it today.

h1a8

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you're telling me that Betty will never ever ever become Red She Hulk ever again? Bold words, hehe.

Hulk going WBH was under very specific circumstances. To say that he always has this potential is like me saying Betty can always be rewritten (especially with Secret Wars etc) to do the same. Betty was only capable of that feat because of the wish. Even if she became red she Hulk again then she would never be at that level without some specific plot device (a wish). If we don't use potential then Hulk is one of the weakest there is (from Banner to low base Hulk). Hulks strength is variable and not fixed. We should use potential. Lets not ruin the spirit of the thread with semantics. Otherwise this thread wood be a worthless discussion.

DarkSaint85

Is Hulk stronger than the entire Celestial race, and is he stronger than a Celestial?

Than the abstracts? Is he the strongest one there is in ALL of MArvel?

Y/n? Simple q. No need for long posts.

Branlor Swift

Ugh... h1 quotes.

Celestials punch a universe into a multiverse though. Curious how he copes with this... actually I'm not. Don't quote him again please
http://imgur.com/HWgswQz

h1a8

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
HotM did NOT retcon Hulk to always be able to go WB. yes it did. It explains that Hulk always held back until now.

h1a8

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Is Hulk stronger than the entire Celestial race, and is he stronger than a Celestial?

Than the abstracts? Is he the strongest one there is in ALL of MArvel?

Y/n? Simple q. No need for long posts. abstracts have no physical strength since they aren't material beings. Telekinesis is not physical strength. Going by feats then Hulk at his best is physically stronger than any single Celestial and all of Marvel chatacters. Unless you can show me a great that beats the WB feat.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by h1a8
Betty was only capable of that feat because of the wish. Even if she became red she Hulk again then she would never be at that level without some specific plot device (a wish). If we don't use potential then Hulk is one of the weakest there is (from Banner to low base Hulk). Hulks strength is variable and not fixed. We should use potential. Lets not ruin the spirit of the thread with semantics. Otherwise this thread wood be a worthless discussion.

Yes, and WBH was only that strong because of specific plot devices.H He does not become WBH because he stubbed his toe, or because Mjolnir fell on his head, or because Spiderman told one too many 'yo mama' jokes. It took a storyline years in the making, from Planet Hulk through to WWH than to HotM, to establish the Hulk being that angry. Before that, Hulk was never at that level. Since then, he hasn't been at that level, either. Whether in canon, or non-canon stories.

This isn't just worthless semantics, either. At his strongest, he was matched by Betty. Since then, Betty has not been at those levels - but neither has Hulk.

Flash has outraced Death. He has outraced his own shadow. He has outraced himself.

Has Hulk overpowered abstracts? Has he been stronger than himself?

h1a8

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Ugh... h1 quotes.

Celestials punch a universe into a multiverse though. Curious how he copes with this... actually I'm not. Don't quote him again please
http://imgur.com/HWgswQz That wasn't a pure physical strength feat. Obviously, the Celestial used some type of cosmic ability to casuate with space (make it tangible), otherwise they would have been punching through emptiness without hitting anything. Thus it was plot device. Anyway, it's possible that they performed the bulk of the feat using their powers (not stength) since 'will' can apply to that as well.

carver9

@Darksaint

Flash hasn't been at those levels either anymore (before the reboot). Hulk has probably went World Breaker more times than Flash has had showings like that.

DarkSaint85

Are you going by feats or going by potential? You keep changing thee goalposts.

h1a8

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, and WBH was only that strong because of specific plot devices.H He does not become WBH because he stubbed his toe, or because Mjolnir fell on his head, or because Spiderman told one too many 'yo mama' jokes. It took a storyline years in the making, from Planet Hulk through to WWH than to HotM, to establish the Hulk being that angry. Before that, Hulk was never at that level. Since then, he hasn't been at that level, either. Whether in canon, or non-canon stories.

This isn't just worthless semantics, either. At his strongest, he was matched by Betty. Since then, Betty has not been at those levels - but neither has Hulk.

Flash has outraced Death. He has outraced his own shadow. He has outraced himself.

Has Hulk overpowered abstracts? Has he been stronger than himself? Then why did the comic painstakingly talk about Hulk always holding back in comparison to him not now (WB mode)? Why do we see him able to go WB at any given time (straight from Banner) at later times?

I'll change my argument to be more clear.
Hulk possess the ability to go WB at any given moment. Anger has nothing to do with it.

Red she Hulk doesn't exist. Semantics are irrelevant since i can say that potentially flash isn't the fastest because a writer can one day create a character even faster or just as fast. That's not constructive to the spirit. Let's focus on the spirit.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
@Darksaint

Flash hasn't been at those levels either anymore (before the reboot). Hulk has probably went World Breaker more times than Flash has had showings like that.

Sweet, you deign to cross my blade once more. En garde! I shall climb once more into the Carvbuster. It is not as advanced as Bran's, being a shittier model, but it will do.

A: reboot, preboot, post - it does not matter. OP specifically said all are admissible.
B: Flash did not need any external events making him angrier, or faster. He just ran faster than before. In other words, he doesn't need to see Linda and unborn child killed by a bomb that he believes was planted by the JLA, only to find out it was actually planted by Kyle, then transported to a magical world where he can give in to this and run as fast as he can. No. He just runs.
C: You want to go toe to toe with me on stupid Flash feats vs WBH instances? Sure thing.
D: Even after all this - Betty was his equal. So no, he wouldn't be the strongest one there is, as World Breaker Betty would also be at this level.

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
I thought Tyrannus enhanced the machine. Thought he played a part in it as well? Also, I'm not going through a long debate with you again. A freaking ape stalemated Hulk in the same comic he was slapped away in. The writer gave Hulk no favors during that story line. You can use it if you want too. Overall,I disagree with your post and could go pages breaking it down but I just don't feel like doing it today. Would it matter if Tyrannus did? Tyrannus knows nothing of the Celestials. Any addition from him would be meaningless. Not that I think he added anything. Not that I care to check.

What, you mean the same apes that were able to inflict this much damage to Wolverine and his adamantium skeleton and how it impossibly holds together in 5 ish hits?
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Cosmic/b0d6c08c-99a0-4ba6-9c76-4ddc9879c146.jpg

You could go pages breaking my post down now? You know for a fact you got shit carver. erm

You thought hey, people are questioning whether Hulk is above Celestials or not... now's my chance to show em all!
And then that fell flat on your face, and you got **** all. I'd take your false concession over your pretending.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by h1a8
Then why did the comic painstakingly talk about Hulk always holding back in comparison to him not now (WB mode)? Why do we see him able to go WB at any given time (straight from Banner) at later times?

I'll change my argument to be more clear.
Hulk possess the ability to go WB at any given moment. Anger has nothing to do with it.

Red she Hulk doesn't exist. Semantics are irrelevant since i can say that potentially flash isn't the fastest because a writer can one day create a character even faster or just as fast. That's not constructive to the spirit. Let's focus on the spirit.

At any time - really???

I might as well ask why did they painstakingly continually refer to him as being 'angrier than ever before'??

Red She Hulk does not exist - ANY MORE. Nor does WBH.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sweet, you deign to cross my blade once more. En garde! I shall climb once more into the Carvbuster. It is not as advanced as Bran's, being a shittier model, but it will do.

A: reboot, preboot, post - it does not matter. OP specifically said all are admissible.
B: Flash did not need any external events making him angrier, or faster. He just ran faster than before. In other words, he doesn't need to see Linda and unborn child killed by a bomb that he believes was planted by the JLA, only to find out it was actually planted by Kyle, then transported to a magical world where he can give in to this and run as fast as he can. No. He just runs.
C: You want to go toe to toe with me on stupid Flash feats vs WBH instances? Sure thing.
D: Even after all this - Betty was his equal. So no, he wouldn't be the strongest one there is, as World Breaker Betty would also be at this level.

Lol...Hulk went World Breaker twice without any incidents like you are referring too happening. One was with Skaar talking to him and another when he absorbed his power back and immediately went World Breaker against the Avengers and Fantastic four (but powered down). He had complete control of his power.

Wait, I know you're asking in your head right now if there is evidence of Banner showing control of World Breaker power and I'm pretty sure you seen this scene. Anyways; World Breaker revert from Hulk, back to Banner, and immediately turns into World Breaker...

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8094156/Incredible_Hulks_632_012.jpg.html

Looks like control to me. What about you Saint?

h1a8

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
At any time - really???

I might as well ask why did they painstakingly continually refer to him as being 'angrier than ever before'??

Red She Hulk does not exist - ANY MORE. Nor does WBH. WBH does exist. He's Hulk. They are the same being. That's like saying the flash who outraced death doesn't exist because he refuses to go that fast nowadays. You are arguing what flash can do at his highest potential but we can't argue what Hulk can do at his highest potential. Hulk has infinite different levels of strength. Which level do we argue if we can't argue the highest shown?

Hulk, after the events of HOTM, has shown several times to go WB just for the joy of it (or like carver said, without incident).

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Hulk went World Breaker twice without any incidents like you are referring too happening. One was with Skaar talking to him and another when he absorbed his power back and immediately went World Breaker against the Avengers and Fantastic four (but powered down). He had complete control of his power.

Wait, I know you're asking in your head right now if there is evidence of Banner showing control of World Breaker power and I'm pretty sure you seen this scene. Anyways; World Breaker revert from Hulk, back to Banner, and immediately turns into World Breaker...

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8094156/Incredible_Hulks_632_012.jpg.html

Looks like control to me. What about you Saint?

So it's all from the same storyline? Wooow. Hulk went WBH in the same storyline that he went WBH.

Outside of the storyline that Pak was doing (IOW, that one sweet year when you were hospitalised from dehydration due to over jizzing) WHEN has Hulk gone WBH? In the 60 or so years that he has been around?

Want me to go through the number of times Flash has outrun Death? Around three times. And not just in the span of a year, or under the same writer, either. He has also outrun himself, and his own shadow.

And that's just Wally, let alone Barry.

But as you're replying, let's see you answer this humdinger. Is Hulk strongest there is in the entire Marvel U? Over ANYONE ANYBODY will care to name in Marvel?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by h1a8
WBH does exist. He's Hulk. They are the same being. That's like saying the flash who outraced death doesn't exist because he refuses to go that fast nowadays. You are arguing what flash can do at his highest potential but we can't argue what Hulk can do at his highest potential. Hulk has infinite different levels of strength. Which level do we argue if we can't argue the highest shown?

Not quite the same - Flash doesn't need to get angry to run. If he wants to , he can run that fast. Whereas Hulk NEEDS to get that angry - witness the number of times he is unable to Hulk out because he cannot get angry.

OK, we are using the highest shown version of Hulk. I agree, 100%. I never said I was only using Flash at his highest potential - I actually named and showed his feats. What he has actually done.

When he was shown, and when he did all those awesome feats....So did Betty.

OP never specified a time frame. Said they were all applicable. So if you are using Hulk from that time frame, I choose Betty from that timeframe.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So it's all from the same storyline? Wooow. Hulk went WBH in the same storyline that he went WBH.

Outside of the storyline that Pak was doing (IOW, that one sweet year when you were hospitalised from dehydration due to over jizzing) WHEN has Hulk gone WBH? In the 60 or so years that he has been around?

Want me to go through the number of times Flash has outrun Death? Around three times. And not just in the span of a year, or under the same writer, either. He has also outrun himself, and his own shadow.

And that's just Wally, let alone Barry.

But as you're replying, let's see you answer this humdinger. Is Hulk strongest there is in the entire Marvel U? Over ANYONE ANYBODY will care to name in Marvel?

Correction, BANNER went World Breaker with just a thought. Complete control. He reverted from Hulk to Banner, because he didn't want to take a footstep and destroy the eastern sea board, and reverted from Banner to World Breaker in a few panels.

Are you asking me if he went mad and had green energy leaking from him destroying everything BEFORE Pak? Lol...yes, it has happened before.

http://i.imgur.com/5zmPWoX.jpg

Green aura was melting human and disentrigating bullets. He was the same threat and he was on the hunt because they said his presence was going to destroy Earth.

If I show you a writer or two saying Hulk is the strongest being in the Universe, will that help?

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
If I show you a writer or two saying Hulk is the strongest being in the Universe, will that help? It's a yes or no question. Don't dance around it, actually commit.

Is Hulk the strongest being in the universe. In. Your. Opinion.

carver9

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
It's a yes or no question. Don't dance around it, actually commit.

Is Hulk the strongest being in the universe. In. Your. Opinion.

No and I don't think Flash is the fastest being in the universe either.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Correction, BANNER went World Breaker with just a thought. Complete control. He reverted from Hulk to Banner, because he didn't want to take a footstep and destroy the eastern sea board, and reverted from Banner to World Breaker in a few panels.
Nice. Pak sure was nice to your boy Hulk.

No, I am not asking that.

No, I am asking YOU. Carver9. Not the Carvatar. None of this cock teasing. You.

Is Hulk the strongest one there is in Marvel?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
No and I don't think Flash is the fastest being in the universe either.

That's not his rep, though.

His is 'the fastest man alive'.

Do you not know who the Flash is?

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
No and I don't think Flash is the fastest being in the universe either. Where does Hulk's "limit" reach?

Odin, Celestials, Eternity?

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's not his rep, though.

His is 'the fastest man alive'.

Do you not know who the Flash is?

But he isn't the fastest though and Zoom is faster even if his powers doesn't work like the Flash.

smile

carver9

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Where does Hulk's "limit" reach?

Odin, Celestials, Eternity?

I don't know his strength levels. Has a cap been shown for him (I see what you are TRYING to do here as well and I'm mentally prepared for your next response)?

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
I don't know his strength levels. Has a cap been shown for him (I see what you are TRYING to do here as well and I'm mentally prepared for your next response)? Where would his highest strength feat put him in response to Odin, or Celestials, and Eternity?

Stop playing retarded and answer the question. Do you think he is stronger than Odin, or Celestials, and Eternity? Do you think he is close but somewhat weaker?

I don't understand why you're making it difficult. It's a series of questions, I'm not trying to argue with you at the end of this, but your dodging is annoying.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
But he isn't the fastest though and Zoom is faster even if his powers doesn't work like the Flash.

smile

Hehe I had been waiting for someone to bring Zoom up.

Nope, Zoom isn't faster. He controls time.

You might as well say Nightcrawler has more speed than Northstar, because he can teleport and arrive somewhere faster than him.

Or that Dr Strange is faster, because he can time stop.

But then, we would have to go back to the OP. Please re read it. It asks who out of the two has done more to live up to their rep.

Asides from Zoom (which is, of course, super contentious as my examples above show), who else is a contender?

Whereas Hulk...well, if you are right, and there's a whole RACE of beings stronger than him, shows he's waaaaay below Flash in achieving his rep.

Assuming you're right, of course.

h1a8

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not quite the same - Flash doesn't need to get angry to run. If he wants to , he can run that fast. Whereas Hulk NEEDS to get that angry - witness the number of times he is unable to Hulk out because he cannot get angry.

OK, we are using the highest shown version of Hulk. I agree, 100%. I never said I was only using Flash at his highest potential - I actually named and showed his feats. What he has actually done.

When he was shown, and when he did all those awesome feats....So did Betty.

OP never specified a time frame. Said they were all applicable. So if you are using Hulk from that time frame, I choose Betty from that timeframe. But Hulk can go WB at any time without being angry. It was shown several times in the comics AFTER his big feat. He went 0 to WB real quick (Drake) with a smile on his face.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by h1a8
But Hulk can go WB at any time without being angry. It was shown several times in the comics AFTER his big feat. He went 0 to WB real quick (Drake) with a smile on his face.

Drake?

He still had the anger within him left over from his betrayal. Since then, he has not shown ANYTHING close to when he was WBH.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hehe I had been waiting for someone to bring Zoom up.

Nope, Zoom isn't faster. He controls time.

You might as well say Nightcrawler has more speed than Northstar, because he can teleport and arrive somewhere faster than him.

Or that Dr Strange is faster, because he can time stop.

But then, we would have to go back to the OP. Please re read it. It asks who out of the two has done more to live up to their rep.

Asides from Zoom (which is, of course, super contentious as my examples above show), who else is a contender?

Whereas Hulk...well, if you are right, and there's a whole RACE of beings stronger than him, shows he's waaaaay below Flash in achieving his rep.

Assuming you're right, of course.

SO flash isn't faster than time (since Zoom obviously out reacts him)?

h1a8

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Drake?

He still had the anger within him left over from his betrayal. Since then, he has not shown ANYTHING close to when he was WBH. But he was Banner (not enough anger to become any Hulk) to becoming WB in an instant with a smile on his face. That sounds like control, not anger. Writer's are different. Not all will choose for him to go WB and not all will choose for Flash to outrace death. But he has done it and is capable of it anytime he wants.

Remember all the issues between WWH and the incident where Hulk became Green Scar once again and thunderclapped koed Rulk? Well in the issues before savage hulk), did Hulk forget that he can go Green Scar mode or he did it so that he can win easier and prove a point?

Drake the rapper as in "0 to 100" lol

h1a8

Controlling time = controlling speed since time is part of speed.

carver9

Zoom isn't stopping Flash from moving.

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
(I see what you are TRYING to do here as well and I'm mentally prepared for your next response)? Mentally prepared = full on ignoring apparently

carver9

Didn't see your post. Reading it now.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by h1a8
Controlling time = controlling speed since time is part of speed.

By that rationale, teleporters are also speedsters?

@carver:

Whu? Where in my post did I say Zoom stops Flash from moving?

You do know how his powers work, right? He moves at NORMAL speed, but in a different time frame to others. It has always been thus.

But again, OP: He is one man. How many beings are above Hulk in strength? Now go reread what this thread actually asks.

carver9

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Where would his highest strength feat put him in response to Odin, or Celestials, and Eternity?

Stop playing retarded and answer the question. Do you think he is stronger than Odin, or Celestials, and Eternity? Do you think he is close but somewhat weaker?

I don't understand why you're making it difficult. It's a series of questions, I'm not trying to argue with you at the end of this, but your dodging is annoying.

Let me put it like this. Odin can amp at a faster rate than Hulk but if Odin stayed constant, no amping, Hulk could surpass him (if that makes sense). If Zeus didn't beat the hell out of Hulk and they actually traded blows, I don't think Zeus would've been unaffecteded by Hulk and that was shown when Hulk punched him sending him flying through the area. A Celestial is too big to compare Hulk strength too so I am going to have to say no on that one and you posted a good scan of them not too long ago.

I am going to say this though (this has nothing to do with my stance on Hulk strength being comparable to a Celestial)...Thor himself has said Hulk could be the strongest being he's faced...

http://s226.photobucket.com/user/HulkFights/media-full/Vs%20Thor/Fight%205/3.jpg.html

Whatever writer this is had high thoughts of the Hulk. Then we have this...

Hulk being called one of the most powerful men in existence from Pak. Or it being outright said that Hulk power can match that of the Celestial race.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media-full/Hulk/Screenshot_2014-06-20-12-04-51_zpse77f2a00.png.html

Pretty sure I don't have to post what Starlin recently wrote in his book about Hulk strength vs everything in the Universe or Thor girl writer saying Hulk is the strongest being in the Universe. That's why I told you that I was undecided and if we have a defined Cap on Hulks strength. If we base things off of train of thought, then of course I will say Odin is probably stronger but if we go by potential, knowing that Hulk doesn't have a Cap, then no one is stronger than him.

Hope that answered your question.

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
Let me put it like this. Odin can amp at a faster rate than Hulk but if Odin stayed constant, no amping, Hulk could surpass him (if that makes sense). If Zeus didn't beat the hell out of Hulk and they actually traded blows, I don't think Zeus would've been unaffecteded by Hulk and that was shown when Hulk punched him sending him flying through the area. A Celestial is too big to compare Hulk strength too so I am going to have to say no on that one and you posted a good scan of them not too long ago.

I am going to say this though (this has nothing to do with my stance on Hulk strength being comparable to a Celestial)...Thor himself has said Hulk could be the strongest being he's faced...

http://s226.photobucket.com/user/HulkFights/media-full/Vs%20Thor/Fight%205/3.jpg.html

Whatever writer this is had high thoughts of the Hulk. Then we have this...

Hulk being called one of the most powerful men in existence from Pak. Or it being outright said that Hulk power can match that of the Celestial race.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media-full/Hulk/Screenshot_2014-06-20-12-04-51_zpse77f2a00.png.html

Pretty sure I don't have to post what Starlin recently wrote in his book about Hulk strength vs everything in the Universe or Thor girl writer saying Hulk is the strongest being in the Universe. That's why I told you that I was undecided and if we have a defined Cap on Hulks strength. If we base things off of train of thought, then of course I will say Odin is probably stronger but if we go by potential, knowing that Hulk doesn't have a Cap, then no one is stronger than him.

Hope that answered your question. Thank you for finally answering.

Also lol at the picture for the second scan. Terrible art to dialogue there...

But anyway, you're saying Hulk isn't as strong as a Celestial. IE, he's weaker than an "infinite" number of beings. And that's just the Celestials themselves. You can add in quite a few more beings of that level to put them over Hulk as well.

Which means there are quite a few beings within the universe stronger than Hulk.

What we have of Flash, is Prof Zoom being comparable, and Death. If you count Zoom with his time manipulation, that's 4 ish beings if we separate Black Racer from Black Flash. And only Zoom is for sure faster than Flash, although he really isn't...

So you have a handful of rivals vs a whole race and other beings. It starts to make this look like a blowout in reputation, no?

You can't call yourself the strongest there is when there's possibly millions of beings stronger. However the claim to being the fastest man alive holds a lot more merit when there's not one for sure faster being than you. The mere fact that Hulk's strength is a question in the first place should answer this thread.

That's not a slight on Hulk's strength since we know it's impressive, it's just what it is. His claim does not work in a rep off with Flash. We have to take these claims as what they portray to prove their accuracy.

Which is what me and Dirksand are trying to tell you. It's not about proving Hulk is stronger than Earth, it's about proving he's stronger than everyone in the universe, multiverse, omniverse. Which, considering Odin has a better striking feat than Hulk has... it's a challenge to say the least. If Hulk is the strongest there is, then he's stronger than EVERYONE anyone can name. The logical conclusion to this is including Living Tribunal. erm

Even just 616 there's a lot of names. Hell, Sentry with the Death Seed...

Surtur

I don't even know why this is even still being debated. The best "feat" provided is one that we can't even quantify. "Hulk destroyed a machine" is what it boils down to. It doesn't matter what the machine was meant to destroy, unless it works via actually throwing said machine at someone and hoping it destroys them...it says nothing about the toughness of said machine.

iceman24567

Darktaint not sure why you are humoring the worst of us erm

DarkSaint85

I'm the Zoom to Carver's Flash. I'm making him a betteeeerrrrrrrr posstteerrrrr.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I shall climb once more into the Carvbuster. It is not as advanced as Bran's, being a shittier model, but it will do.

Surtur

Also at least one version of Zoom had no super speed whatsoever, it was indeed time manipulation of a sort. Soo now Hiro from Heroes is a speedster, who knew?

carver9

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Thank you for finally answering.

Also lol at the picture for the second scan. Terrible art to dialogue there...

But anyway, you're saying Hulk isn't as strong as a Celestial. IE, he's weaker than an "infinite" number of beings. And that's just the Celestials themselves. You can add in quite a few more beings of that level to put them over Hulk as well.

Which means there are quite a few beings within the universe stronger than Hulk.

What we have of Flash, is Prof Zoom being comparable, and Death. If you count Zoom with his time manipulation, that's 4 ish beings if we separate Black Racer from Black Flash. And only Zoom is for sure faster than Flash, although he really isn't...

So you have a handful of rivals vs a whole race and other beings. It starts to make this look like a blowout in reputation, no?

You can't call yourself the strongest there is when there's possibly millions of beings stronger. However the claim to being the fastest man alive holds a lot more merit when there's not one for sure faster being than you. The mere fact that Hulk's strength is a question in the first place should answer this thread.

That's not a slight on Hulk's strength since we know it's impressive, it's just what it is. His claim does not work in a rep off with Flash. We have to take these claims as what they portray to prove their accuracy.

Which is what me and Dirksand are trying to tell you. It's not about proving Hulk is stronger than Earth, it's about proving he's stronger than everyone in the universe, multiverse, omniverse. Which, considering Odin has a better striking feat than Hulk has... it's a challenge to say the least. If Hulk is the strongest there is, then he's stronger than EVERYONE anyone can name. The logical conclusion to this is including Living Tribunal. erm

Even just 616 there's a lot of names. Hell, Sentry with the Death Seed...

I already said the Celestials could be stronger than him (I might as well continue with this debate since it has already started) but what I am also saying is, I think Marvel has acknowledge Hulk as the strongest in said Universe and a lot of evidence points towards this. That's if you look at everything as a whole.

An example of this would be Hulks power being compared to the Celestials (not one but all) themselves...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/celestialtechulk.png

And this was said by someone who works closely with the Celestials (let me know if i need to post his entire history with the Celestials).

http://s2.photobucket.com/user/Nightmareman95/media-full/NM95/nxm97pg04.jpg.html

This is where we go back to potential. From what we've seen so far, Hulk has been compared not only to one lone Celestial but many. We have Thor under the same breath who has fought against the Celestial themselves telling us that Hulk strength is Devine. Is above anyone's he's faced. I'm not even including fts here because that's meaningless.

Here is Hulk overpowering Cyttorak enchantment and as shown, Cyttorak had enough power to control a portion of the Phoenix Force and bend the stars themselves with a portion of his power. Here is Hulk overpowering the enchantment...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118689/2333154- the_thing_and_hulk_vs_collosuss_and_juggernaut_586
3.jpg

Before someone throw out there that Hulk was amped...he wasn't. Read Apocalypse words. The Celestial armor gave Hulk control over his own power. Let's continue please...

Reed Richards has measured power from Nova Prime all the way to the Celestials but he was unable to read Hulks powers levels. His power was off REEDS chart...

http://rs160.pbsrc.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkpoweroffcharts.jpg~320x480

Wonder if Reed can measure Flash speed?

SHIELD tells us Hulk is at a power level they've never seen...

http://rs160.pbsrc.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/wwhstrongest1.jpg~320x480

Beyonder himself...a being mightier than all in MU was in shock of Hulk's power. It's limitless...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118689/2713687-2396928_1862100_beyonder_scan_hulk_super.png

Strange who at the time was able to even defend himself against Dormammu shields/mystic barrier crumbles against the most powerful creature on the planet...

http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/original/2735985-001___copy.jpg

Right now I'm just posting fts that I'm sure you are aware of. The point I'm making is, when it comes to comparison of strength, Hulk has not been matched and we have as of yet to see a ft he failed at. I also asked you a question that you seem to be avoiding. Has there been a cap shown on Hulk's strength? Evidence would end this debate. You can scream to me how fast you think Flash is but there has as of yet to be a known limit to Hulks strength. Also, Flash isn't faster than all abstracts. Flash had to borrow speed from every being on the planet to match a teleporter. Don't think an abstract would have that problem.

carver9

Originally posted by iceman24567
Darktaint not sure why you are humoring the worst of us erm

You whine more than my baby niece. Do you even debate anymore?

iceman24567

Originally posted by carver9
You whine more than my baby niece. Do you even debate anymore? This coming from a guy that spends most of his time getting ghosted by Bran and Galan while acting arrogant. Not to mention the blatant lies you have been caught in plus the many times you have baited people you have never debated you struggle to make sense 90% of the time you stink more than the deuce i just dropped laughing

Surtur

You brought up how Reed could read the Celestials power, but not Hulks. You basically said Hulk>>>Celestials. Have you gone insane? You legitimately feel Hulk is some high end cosmic.. Is the guy who created Hulk like your grandpa or something?

carver9

Originally posted by iceman24567
This coming from a guy that spends most of his time getting ghosted by Bran and Galan while acting arrogant. Not to mention the blatant lies you have been caught in plus the many times you have baited people you have never debated you struggle to make sense 90% of the time you stink more than the deuce i just dropped laughing

What lies? Point them out. At least debate on a forum that requires you to debate. That's all you do is go in threads calling everyone trolls and cheerleading. Look at all my post and see what I am attempting or doing. Now go back and look at your posts and do a comparison. Moral; add something to these threads other than what you are doing.

carver9

Originally posted by Surtur
You brought up how Reed could read the Celestials power, but not Hulks. You basically said Hulk>>>Celestials. Have you gone insane? You legitimately feel Hulk is some high end cosmic.. Is the guy who created Hulk like your grandpa or something?

Read what this thread is about. This has nothing to do with what I think, I'm basing this off of what Marvel thinks and what writers are putting in their stories about this character. Grasp the concept of this thread.

iceman24567

Originally posted by carver9
What lies? Point them out. At least debate on a forum that requires you to debate. That's all you do is go in threads calling everyone trolls and cheerleading. Look at all my post and see what I am attempting or doing. Now go back and look at your posts and do a comparison. Moral; add something to these threads other than what you are doing. Point them out? You are known as a liar among other things hell even a mod PR has caught you lying erm

. This is a VS forum debating has always been secondary many people go into threads vote who they think wins and vanish nothing wrong with that. What you attempt to do is champion your favorite characters in a obvious bias fashion which gets old real fast. If we do a comparison of the times i do debate its above and beyond anything you have done. Moral stop being a lying arrogant schmuck and get back on topic thumb up

carver9

Originally posted by iceman24567
Point them out? You are known as a liar among other things hell even a mod PR has caught you lying erm

I guess you couldn't point it out and I guess you really didn't prove anything. Good to see you on.

iceman24567

Originally posted by carver9
I guess you couldn't point it out and I guess you really didn't prove anything. Good to see you on. Nice still off topic and instead choose to show me unrequited attention I'm flattered but despite my avatar and sig i am hetero flirt with somebody else.

Surtur

Originally posted by carver9
Read what this thread is about. This has nothing to do with what I think, I'm basing this off of what Marvel thinks and what writers are putting in their stories about this character. Grasp the concept of this thread.

Take your own advice, grasp the concept of the thread. This is not about what Marvel thinks. This is about who in their universe lives up to their respective tag lines. The only way to determine that is feats, not what Marvel thinks.

Especially since if Marvel thinks Hulk>>Celestials then they have lost their minds and are not to be taken seriously.

Sin I AM

For what it's worth wolverine is the best there is...he stomps both these mooks

Time Immemorial

Originally posted by carver9
But he isn't the fastest though and Zoom is faster even if his powers doesn't work like the Flash.

smile

But you do know that Zoom isn't faster then Flash. This is painfully obvious. Are you familiar with Zoom or his powers?

Time Immemorial

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
By that rationale, teleporters are also speedsters?

@carver:

Whu? Where in my post did I say Zoom stops Flash from moving?

You do know how his powers work, right? He moves at NORMAL speed, but in a different time frame to others. It has always been thus.

But again, OP: He is one man. How many beings are above Hulk in strength? Now go reread what this thread actually asks.

Ah you already explained this as well as Bran, which Carver ducked out on.

He knew this already, but conveniently "forgot"

Time Immemorial

Originally posted by riv6672
Image isnt loading for me but...i'll take your word for it. stick out tongue

Its cool that you compare the Celestials feat to a feat accomplished by a Hulk who wasnt the strongest ever seen though... smile

I been in GD all day discussing politics and come here to see Bran double fisting Riv and put him away dry.

#rivownedagain.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
It doesn't matter what I compare it to. That feat is beyond every single Hulk feat put together.

And the Crossroads feat was purely because Hulk was fighting Ironclad (giant pussy) at an interdimensional crossroads. The first scan even says it. There were pockets in the Crossroads that were turning both of them into kids too. It was not a stable place.
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_06b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_07b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_08b.jpg.html

Even Vector was able to repel 'everything' in the Crossroads
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_10b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_11a.jpg.html

Yet, what is left out is that Vector became a prisoner of a mere world's winds throwing the planet back in that same issue:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Hulk305_17a.jpg.html

It's a good feat. But it is utterly eclipsed by anything of approaching skyfather let alone abstract. Hell, who he was fighting there tells the entire story. Ironclad, who at that moment was acting as an equal to Hulk. Hulk later easily beat him in the same issue without the same collateral damage.

And if you're using this as a Hulk feat, then it's equally halved by Ironclad, who you might as well be saying COULD BE above Celestial level. erm

quanchi112

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
(I might as well continue with this debate since it has already started)

Xxl2eDP1oQ4

And here's the deal. What I usually do is focus solely on my opposition in a debate and ignore the crowd entirely which leads to a clear "one on one" if you will. I don't like wasting posts, which is why I try to fit as much as I can in one post before I make another. Which leads to people not reading my posts more often than not. And that doesn't bother me since I only want to make the other person concede or at least feel wrong. It's a real people business.

But as we can see, your concessions are meaningless. All they are is an attempt to halt the posting while you continue believing your previous ignorance. You are a huge liar, and you just realized you backed yourself into a corner. Which leads to more lies.

So what I'm going to do here is something I don't enjoy doing; which is appealing to crowds. So I'm going to make a series of bite sized completely digestible posts with the sole intention that they get read and you look like a giant dill dough in the process.

It's going to be fun, trust me. smile

Bran says:
"I want everyone to point and laugh at you."

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
I already said the Celestials could be stronger than him but what I am also saying is, I think Marvel has acknowledge Hulk as the strongest in said Universe and a lot of evidence points towards this. That's if you look at everything as a whole. Originally posted by carver9
A Celestial is too big to compare Hulk strength too so I am going to have to say no on that one and you posted a good scan of them not too long ago.

There you are trying to backtrack immediately off the bat because you knew you made a mistake. Can you believe this guy Sin? This is the kind of guy who would re-molest a kid but act like he's doing it backwards so it takes the act back.

"As you can clearly, see, the whole action is in rewind, so it takes back the whole molesting of that delicious 8 year old boy that I previously did."

"... why would you record this?"

Also it doesn't matter what Marvel "says" on the matter, nor does your twisting answer the question. Stan Marvel Quesada Bendis the Third isn't in here arguing that Hulk isn't stronger than Celestials... but wait maybe he is stronger than him now that you bring up him being weaker than billions of beings. You are. You are doing this. These are your words.

It doesn't hurt that Marvel hasn't actually said this either besides blanket statements of "Hulk is the strongest there is"

Bran says:
"Carver thinks he's the Prep Man of Marvel, where every word is a mere extension of the company. Marvel isn't going to be happy when they find the cellar full of young sporting boys."

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
An example of this would be Hulks power being compared to the Celestials (not one but all) themselves...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/celestialtechulk.png

And this was said by someone who works closely with the Celestials (let me know if i need to post his entire history with the Celestials).

http://s2.photobucket.com/user/Nightmareman95/media-full/NM95/nxm97pg04.jpg.html

This is where we go back to potential. From what we've seen so far, Hulk has been compared not only to one lone Celestial but many. You honestly believe that you... wait, Marvel said it not you! That fricking Marvel and all the hecks they give!

But anyway, it was not "Hulk's" power that Apocalypse was after. It was the dimensional energy that Hulk was channeling. You've been torn to shreds by this many times. I believe EbonyPietist has seen it. Why don't we ask him? That guy knows your shit better than everyone.

Let's tackle this however so you can't just play stupid.
Here's what Apocalypse talks about:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/th_Hulk456_12a.jpg

Now what is this energy Apocalypse is talking about? Why don't we look at where it talked about this energy?
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/th_Hulk450_24b.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/th_Heroes%20Reborn-4-24.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/th_Hulk455_02b.jpg

IE it was the energy from the pocket universe and others piling into Hulk.

But even the potential power of Hulk's new power would have been meaningless considering one Celestial was going to destroy the Heroes Reborn Universe:http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/th_Heroes%20Reborn-3-24.jpg

And it was afterall just a creation of Franklin Richards who was a peer to the Celestials when this was just a test for him so they could teach him a lesson. Afterwards Ashema kept the universe safe:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/th_Heroes%20Reborn-4-26.jpghttp://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/th_Heroes%20Reborn-4-27.jpg

IE, it doesn't add up why this power would even challenge one Celestial, let alone THE ENTIRE CELESTIAL RACE OMG

As for how much stock you're putting in Apocalypse... Apocalypse said some of the dumbest shit ever in that series. All Apocalypse knows about them is off of a machine, and everytime he sees one in person he cries his eyes out. But let's take a look at how much stock we should put in Apocalypse here.
Apocalypse calls himself a God:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/Hulk457_18b.jpg

Calls himself the strongest of all:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/Hulk457_11a.jpg

Compares his own power to a Celestial, and Apoc says he's the strongest one of all.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/th_Hulk457_07b.jpg

Says Celestial's power supercedes every power but his own, and having trouble with Juggernaut is a good test for someone who IYO has enough power to match the entire Celestial race:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/th_Hulk457_07a.jpg

And for comparison's sake, here's the power that compares to Apocalypse, and by extension the Celestials:
http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/sonnendawg/media/hulk/Hulk456_05a.jpg.html?sort=3&o=16
http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/sonnendawg/media/hulk/Hulk456_05b.jpg.html?sort=3&o=18

IE, Apocalypse is a terrible judge of the Celestial might. Just like a Deviant. The ****ing guy says he's on a Celestial level in the series.
It's meaningless, and backed by nothing. The mere fact that Hulk had trouble with Juggernaut destroys the notion that he can take one Celestial let alone the whole Celestial race you dingus.

Everyone laugh at this fool.

Bran says:
"Carver would cling to a fresh stool in the toilet if it was green."

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
We have Thor under the same breath who has fought against the Celestial themselves telling us that Hulk strength is Devine. Is above anyone's he's faced. Originally posted by carver9
I am going to say this though (this has nothing to do with my stance on Hulk strength being comparable to a Celestial)...Thor himself has said Hulk could be the strongest being he's faced...

I don't know what more to say on that. You're a blatant liar.

Also, a blanket statement again is meaningless. Thor fought Thanos with the IG, Exitar, beings that literally flicked him out cold, and other things by that time. Him getting cheapshotted by Hulk and saying a blanket statement doesn't include everyone. That's stupid to think. Do I need to post scans of Thor vs the a Rhunian for you to realize how meaningless that statement is?

Bran says:
"Carver likes to lie, and also lie on his back to bite the pillow."

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not even including fts here because that's meaningless. Because you don't have any feats that come close. You tried to act like me posting comparisons was some sort of big meaningless act that meant nothing, yet here you are using complete hyperbole to try and prove something. Here you are lying and twisting context. Here you are using proof which has been shattered before to you. Yet you think igniting some sort of argument about Hulk being the strongest there is when you realize you just talked yourself into a gay corner is the best course of action?

All you're using is hyperbole. And the funniest thing is you're using hyperbole against "omnipotent space Gods" who operate in "transinfinite levels of power". What hyperbole do you think carries more merit in this situation? Do I need to post all the statements calling them omnipotent for you to understand your hyperbole is meaningless?

Bran says:
"Carver just admitted that feats are meaningless in the face of proving something. Carver is more impressed by the thought of a 12 inch penis than Deshawn waving his 10 incher in Carver's armpits."

Originally posted by carver9
Here is Hulk overpowering Cyttorak enchantment and as shown, Cyttorak had enough power to control a portion of the Phoenix Force and bend the stars themselves with a portion of his power. Here is Hulk overpowering the enchantment...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118689/2333154- the_thing_and_hulk_vs_collosuss_and_juggernaut_586
3.jpg I don't know what this scan involves because you completely screwed up, but I'm guessing it involves breaking the Crimson Bands.

Something Namor, Captain Britain, and many others has done.

I don't even get your correlation here anyway. How does Hulk breaking an enchantment not cast by Cy mean anything in the face of a Celestial? What a useless feat that you completely screwed up trying to show.

Bran says:
"Carver thinks Captain Britain is stronger than a Celestial. Great feat Carver."

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by carver9
Before someone throw out there that Hulk was amped...he wasn't. Read Apocalypse words. The Celestial armor gave Hulk control over his own power. Let's continue please... I'm glad you actually made a solid claim without trying to mask a way out.

Because you're wrong. Dead wrong. I'll let Iceman describe how wrong you are when he sees this. Iceman's words will be enough.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/th_Hulk456_15a.jpg

Twice here:

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/th_Hulk461_19a.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/hulk/397c5df7-e7d9-4b00-9a43-ef3680f5d593.jpg

Bran says:
"Carver is going to need put his clothes on backwards to backtrack away from this."

Originally posted by carver9
Reed Richards has measured power from Nova Prime all the way to the Celestials but he was unable to read Hulks powers levels. His power was off REEDS chart...

http://rs160.pbsrc.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkpoweroffcharts.jpg~320x480

Wonder if Reed can measure Flash speed? Again, blanket statement. You show proof that he has measured Celestials and included them in that and you might have something (you don't). Hell, that doesn't even imply that the Celestials weren't off the charts too in your made up fantasy world.

Bran says:
"Carver accepts any mention of a being being the strongest there is, but he would flip his lid if the same logic were applied to Superman, Thor, Silver Surfer, and pretty much any hero not named Hulk."