The Exile vs. TCW Darth Maul

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carthage
KOTOR 2 Exile

vs

Darth Maul as of the Clone Wars

Battle takes place on Hypori

Who wins?

Selenial
Maul

Beniboybling
Pardon?

Selenial
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Pardon?

big grin

Depends what incarnation to be honest, Malachor!Meetra wins, Revan!Meetra does not.

Edit: Oh, it's Kotor 2.... Probably Meetra? I'm not sure, if I'm honest.

Stigma
Both die.

FreshestSlice
Malachor Meetra still loses.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Selenial
big grin

Depends what incarnation to be honest, Malachor!Meetra wins, Revan!Meetra does not.

Edit: Oh, it's Kotor 2.... Probably Meetra? I'm not sure, if I'm honest. Well, I don't think Maul is so greater a duelist than the Exile to net him a win here, whereas the Exile is the notably more powerful Force user.

I'd say the Exile wins.

FreshestSlice
How is the Exile notably more powerful in the Force than Maul?

Beniboybling
She took on an entire academy of Sith, defeated Sion three times and defeated Darth Traya in succession all on arguably the most powerful dark side nexus in mythos. In comparison Maul has some high level TK feats and Darth Sion level endurance feats. Go figure tbh.

FreshestSlice
That didn't even begin to justify your statement. That's not none of those are Force showings.

Beniboybling
So your saying the Force was of no help in accomplishing those feats?

FreshestSlice
No, but the fact that she's a Wound in the Force, which makes anything Malachor could to do to her irrelevant while not a single other person there is probably plays a huge factor into that, as well as the fact that most of her victories were likely lightsaber related.

Selenial
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, but the fact that she's a Wound in the Force, which makes anything Malachor could to do to her irrelevant while not a single other person there is probably plays a huge factor into that, as well as the fact that most of her victories were likely lightsaber related.

http://media.giphy.com/media/gKX1svtHZl6dW/giphy.gif

"There is a world on the outer rim surrounded by mass shadows. Past the graveyard of Mandalorian warships this planet suffers. Crushed in gravity's fist. To walk on it's surface is to feel it crushing every cell of your being. It is like being buried alive until it seems you will never breathe again."

"Traversing it's surface had been agony. Mentally, she had still sensed the anguish of all who had lost their lives there. Physically, the intense gravity of the world had held her in its crushing grip, leaving her gasping for breath. It had been the most awful and horrific experience of her life."

"On Malachor she'd felt the echoes of unimaginable pain On Malachor she had felt the echo of great destruction"

Zenwolf
Yet apparently everyone else was fine under this gravity crushing thing. Also you folks are implying, that Maul wouldn't be able to the the same.

It's a great feat and all, but let's not go and say Suirk would be the only one capable of doing it.

That being said, can we stop looking at this singular feat each and every time? Because all I see is this one feat being discussed at length and really nothing else whenever there's a thread involving such.

Selenial
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yet apparently everyone else was fine under this gravity crushing thing. Also you folks are implying, that Maul wouldn't be able to the the same.

It's a great feat and all, but let's not go and say Suirk would be the only one capable of doing it.

That being said, can we stop looking at this singular feat each and every time? Because all I see is this one feat being discussed at length and really nothing else whenever there's a thread involving such.

Actually, we discuss 4 main feats.

- Beating Atris
- Slaughtering an "infinite" army
- Beating Darth Nihilus
- Everything on Malachor

It's not really one feat anyway. And no, not everyone else was fine. Dark siders had to draw on the dark energies of the planets to survive, it's how they corrupted light sided force users.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Selenial
Actually, we discuss 4 main feats.

- Beating Atris
- Slaughtering an "infinite" army
- Beating Darth Nihilus
- Everything on Malachor

It's not really one feat anyway. And no, not everyone else was fine. Dark siders had to draw on the dark energies of the planets to survive, it's how they corrupted light sided force users.

Yet they were still able to move around and such, doesn't matter they had to draw on the darkside really.

Point is, they were still able to fight, really all that matters.

Aside from Nihilus, I'm not seeing anything Maul couldn't replicate. Though what infinite army?

Beniboybling
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, but the fact that she's a Wound in the Force, which makes anything Malachor could to do to her irrelevant while not a single other person there is probably plays a huge factor into that...Sure, I expect they all bowed down before the majesty over her wound and such. roll eyes (sarcastic) And indeed the Force and lightsaber combat are totally exclusive of one another. roll eyes (sarcastic)Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yet apparently everyone else was fine under this gravity crushing thing. Also you folks are implying, that Maul wouldn't be able to the the same.Everyone else? Lol who?All the matters is Maul couldn't.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Everyone else? Lol who?All the matters is Maul couldn't.

The Sith inside the academy?

Also why can't Maul?

Selenial
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yet they were still able to move around and such, doesn't matter they had to draw on the darkside really.

Point is, they were still able to fight, really all that matters.

Aside from Nihilus, I'm not seeing anything Maul couldn't replicate. Though what infinite army?

It does, if Malachor presents such immeasurable pain that someone has to use the Dark Side to survive, then why does the fact Surik is as far into the light as possible (read: More than even Yoda) not matter?

The army of Sith that invaded citadel station. These Sith who supposedly master many forms of lightsaber combat specifically to kill Jedi...

Edit: Not to mention the worst part was psychological, which would have a major effect on her ability to draw on the force.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Zenwolf
The Sith inside the academy?Key word. Sith. Screams of pain and anguish will only empower them.Maul is not defeating Traya, Sion and an academy of Sith with his abilities hampered and his opponents empowered. Traya could choke him out by herself.

Selenial
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Traya could choke him out by herself.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/559/963/385.gif

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Key word. Sith. Screams of pain and anguish will only empower them.Maul is not defeating Traya, Sion and an academy of Sith with his abilities hampered and his opponents empowered. Traya could choke him out by herself.

Why would Maul's abilities be hampered? He's a darkside user himself, if anything he too would be empowered and I was referring to just the Academy not Traya.

Selenial
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Why would Maul's abilities be hampered? He's a darkside user himself, if anything he too would be empowered and I was referring to just the Academy not Traya.

You're missing the point entirely. If you want to say "maul could do what the Exile did," you have to act as if the nexus would hamper him, otherwise he's not doing what she did, he's having a much easier time.

Beniboybling
thumb up

Also I'm referring to the entire academy, Sith Lords included.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Selenial
You're missing the point entirely. If you want to say "maul could do what the Exile did," you have to act as if the nexus would hamper him, otherwise he's not doing what she did, he's having a much easier time.

He's still killing them all, which is what she did.

But sure let's go with him being hampered, I'm not seeing why he couldn't do it given his level of ability.

Regardless though, I feel this is rather moot as this is a 1 on 1 fight. I feel the two would be closer to sabers than Force ability though. Though TK is closer, but that's it considering Suirk has more Force abilities.

ares834
Originally posted by Selenial
It does, if Malachor presents such immeasurable pain that someone has to use the Dark Side to survive, then why does the fact Surik is as far into the light as possible (read: More than even Yoda) not matter?

First, where is this stated? Second, her ability to use the force is completely different then you're average Jedi. I'm not sure why we would assume Malachor is going to hamper her, especially since her own connection to the force is compared to Malachor.

Selenial
Originally posted by ares834
First, where is this stated? Second, her ability to use the force is completely different then you're average Jedi. I'm not sure why we would assume Malachor is going to hamper her, especially since her own connection to the force is compared to Malachor.

Force Enlightenment. Not to mention she became a force ghost, and thanks to the TCW Arc we know that means she's as fully connected to the light side as possible, and has confronted any inner darkness.

Maybe because all the quotes says it hampered her? confused

ares834
Which doesn't mean she is more connected to the light than Yoda...

What quotes? None of the ones you posted mention her being hampered aside from the gravity.

Selenial
Originally posted by ares834
Which doesn't mean she is more connected to the light than Yoda...

What quotes? None of the ones you posted mention her being hampered aside from the gravity.

It does actually, Yoda up until Revenge of the Sith anyway.

Do we really need to go into an argument about how mindset affects a Jedi? And when a planet is described as drowning out life with the Dark side, it's pretty obvious it's not going to be easy to draw on the light.

ares834
No. It really doesn't.

Which is where I point out again that her connection to the force is not typical and is described as similar to Malachor.

Selenial
Originally posted by ares834
No. It really doesn't.

Which is where I point out again that her connection to the force is not typical and is described as similar to Malachor.

And if you could supply any quotes or reasoning to why that changes anything, and how it changes anything, then I'm all ears.

ares834
You mean other then the fact that it changes everything right? Or that she also echoes with the pain of Malachor...

Selenial
Originally posted by ares834
You mean other then the fact that it changes everything right? Or that she also echoes with the pain of Malachor...

It really doesn't change anything. If you're so sure it does, prove to me that it does.

ares834
Except I never made a definite claim that it doesn't weaken her. You however, made a claim that it does and so I've asked you what evidence do you have. It is not my job to prove a claim I did not make, much less prove a negative.

Selenial
Originally posted by ares834
Except I never made a definite claim that it doesn't weaken her. You however, made a claim that it does and so I've asked you what evidence do you have. It is not my job to prove a claim I did not make, much less prove a negative. Originally posted by ares834
No. It really doesn't.

Which is where I point out again that her connection to the force is not typical and is described as similar to Malachor.

Actually you did. There are many quotes about Malachor specifically weakening her, and on top of that numerous about Malachor weakening and converting every other Jedi to walk on its surface. No one is asking you to prove a negative, all I'm asking is for you to prove Surik is immune to the effects of Malachor as you're trying so hard to say she is, because your claim is unsubstantiated bias.

Nephthys
Saying that Surik wasn't weakened on Malachor when she describes merely being on there as the most awful and horrific experience of her life and that she was in agony suggests a pretty odd definition of weakened.

ares834
Originally posted by Selenial
Actually you did. There are many quotes about Malachor specifically weakening her, and on top of that numerous about Malachor weakening and converting every other Jedi to walk on its surface. No one is asking you to prove a negative, all I'm asking is for you to prove Surik is immune to the effects of Malachor as you're trying so hard to say she is, because your claim is unsubstantiated bias.

No, I never did.

And no, not a single one of your quotes says she is weakened from anything beyond the gravity. What we do know is that she is immune to effects of drain and that her very own connection to the force echoes Malachor. So yeah, sorry if I doubt that something that similar to her is going to weaken her. I need definite proof that it did.

As for falling back on to the bias argument/ad Hominems... Shame. Especially since I did not make such a statement.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Nephthys
Saying that Surik wasn't weakened on Malachor when she describes merely being on there as the most awful and horrific experience of her life and that she was in agony suggests a pretty odd definition of weakened. Because undergoing the most awful and horrific experience of one's life while in physical agony is not going to hamper one's abilities at all?

I think it's obvious her conditions were less than ideal, not that the feat isn't impressive in itself regardless.

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