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All in their primes. Battle takes place on neutral ground.

Round 1 sabers

Round 2 force

Round 3. All out

Sabers: either way

Vader rapes him in the other two categories

Mace can take sabers imo, Vader wins the other two

1.Mace Windu.

2.Darth Vader.

3.Mace Windu.

I'll give Vader the all out. Mostly because Vader has significantly less hatred to reflect then your average Sith Lord, assuming it's ROTJ Vader.

Windu would never take an all out, lol. Vader would crush him into a brown tin can

Originally posted by carthage
Vader would crush him into a brown tin can
Too bad this isn't Vader vs Saesee Tiin

You got a chuckle out of me. Windu would probably just stalemate him though or lose without a Vaapad amp (which never worked on Maul or Bulq)

Could reasonably go either way.

If Windu is all out then he beats Vader, Windu going all out should be faster and well better, Vader's force abilities aren't going to flip that.


Only Knightfall!Vader beats all-out Windu IMO.

Mace takes sabers, Vader takes Force, and either could feasibly win overall.

Windu has an edge in sabers but Vader is good enough to keep up and crush him with the force. So Vader wins all out.

Force: Vader comfortably.
Sabers: I'm going with Vader but it'd be a good duel.
All-out: Vader 7/10.

However, if this is peak Windu (which would mean he's using Shatterpoint and Vaapad to their maximum efficiency), Samuel will take 6/10.

Mace takes sabers in a close fight, but Vader stomps him with the Force.

How is Vader stomping Mace with the Force tbh?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
How is Vader stomping Mace with the Force tbh?

Because he is massively more powerful?

No more so than Sidious.

Originally posted by AncientPower
If Windu is all out then he beats Vader, Windu going all out should be faster and well better, Vader's force abilities aren't going to flip that.


Only Knightfall!Vader beats all-out Windu IMO. I really can't see Knightfall Vader taking out Windu, maybe that's just me.

Lol at Vader crushing him with the Force, the vastly more powerful Darth Sidious couldn't, don't be ludicrous.

He never implemented telekinesis against him lol. He's ragdolled Maul and Savage simultaneously, to suggest Sidious couldn't tool Mace with the force is laughable. Windu isn't even that much more skilled than Vader, and his TK feats aren't even approaching Vaders

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lol at Vader crushing him with the Force, the vastly more powerful Darth Sidious couldn't, don't be ludicrous.

Someone like Vader, who atomized Lyleks and briefly chocked Galen Marek, would have no problem ragdolling Mace with the Force.

I'm not sure how he's winning sabers either. I guess if you want to infer he's more skilled by virtue of being a peer of Dooku then maybe, but his feats really aren't better than Vader's at all

He's faster, more agile/mobile, comparably strong, and benefits from mastering Shatterpoint. Aside from that, he achieved impasse with the mythos' arguably most prolific swordsman, and last I checked is the reigning master of the most advanced form of lightsaber combat.

Sabers is firmly in Windu's favor. Shatterpoint will allow him to capitalize on the numerous weaknesses that Vader's suit has.

The Force is clearly in Vader's favor with superior TK.

All Out: Mace Windu, he's got Vaapad and Shatterpoint which is a skillset I think will be formidable against Vader.

Yet Windu's never really used either in saber combat to my recollection, his Vapaad only seemed to help him against Sidious and that was just due to a number of other things fueling it.

Originally posted by carthage
I'm not sure how he's winning sabers either. I guess if you want to infer he's more skilled by virtue of being a peer of Dooku then maybe, but his feats really aren't better than Vader's at all What feats does Vader have to match Windu's?

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Someone like Vader, who atomized Lyleks and briefly chocked Galen Marek, would have no problem ragdolling Mace with the Force.

Meanwhile Mace decimates droid armies, stifles Palpatine's push, TK's Quinlan and Bulq, and decisively stomps Grievous with the Force every time they meet.

Sure, Vader's obviously more powerful, but implying he could ragdoll Mace with impunity is lolworthy.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He's faster, more agile/mobile, comparably strong, and benefits from mastering Shatterpoint. Aside from that, he achieved impasse with the mythos' arguably most prolific swordsman, and last I checked is the reigning master of the most advanced form of lightsaber combat. He's also mastered all seven forms of lightsaber combat. Originally posted by Nargaroth
Someone like Vader, who atomized Lyleks and briefly chocked Galen Marek, would have no problem ragdolling Mace with the Force. Briefly choking Marek after smashing/stunning him with a massive table doesn't mean he can choke Windu.

At the very least, Windu will break free in short order.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He's also mastered all seven forms of lightsaber combat.

Used to throw this one around a lot, but I have yet to see any source confirming it.

:mmm: Interesting.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He's also mastered all seven forms of lightsaber combat. Briefly choking Marek after smashing/stunning him with a massive table doesn't mean he can choke Windu.

At the very least, Windu will break free in short order.

I was addressing their final duel, not the meeting on Corellia. And Marek is far and away more powerful than Mace.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Meanwhile Mace decimates droid armies, stifles Palpatine's push, TK's Quinlan and Bulq, and decisively stomps Grievous with the Force every time they meet.

Sure, Vader's obviously more powerful, but implying he could ragdoll Mace with impunity is lolworthy.

Mace didn't decimate droid armies. The Dantooine feat was the result of a domino effect. He only TK'ed dozens of droids.

Tk'ing Vos and Bulq doesn't mean much considering that Vader pushed TFU2 Starkiller who is even more powerful than the original.

Stomping Grievous is no big deal either. Obi-Wan did the same, yet Dooku and Maul dominated him with the Force.

I think a source states Mace learnt Juyo first and decided to craft Vaapad as a result of noticing Juyo's flaws - if that's true, then he's also a high-level master of multiple other forms.

Mace's showings just aren't comparable to Vader's on the telekinetic scale - the best argument to be made against Vader's TK is the fact that in certain fights (particularly against major personal foes) he has decided to neglect telekinesis in favor of proving his superior combative skill - it might be the case here as well, considering Mace's own repute as a swordsman.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
I was addressing their final duel, not the meeting on Corellia. And Marek is far and away more powerful than Mace. Doesn't that happen in the contexts of game mechanics though? And isn't Marek able to break free with ease if you press the correct keys?

Anyway I think considering they are more or less equals in terms of power, its not really much proof of anything. Its not proof that Vader can grip Windu with any level of length or effectiveness to actually do him harm.

Simply put he is unlikely to be what Dooku and Maul were to Kenobi.

If he can stifle a Palpatine Force Push he can do better against Vader's, Vader isn't Force stomping Windu at all. Mace Windu is an extremely powerful Jedi Master above anyone bar Yoda and Dooku in the Order. Stop treating him like Trebor because even my IQ is suffering reading this stuff.

When does Windu tank a Force push from Palpatine?

EDIT: I'm also beginning to think Vader was only able to choke Marek because of he has poor Force defenses...

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Doesn't that happen in the contexts of game mechanics though? And isn't Marek able to break free with ease if you press the correct keys?

Anyway I think considering they are more or less equals in terms of power, its not really much proof of anything. Its not proof that Vader can grip Windu with any level of length or effectiveness to actually do him harm.

Simply put he is unlikely to be what Dooku and Maul were to Kenobi.

No, it was in the novel. And of course Marek blasted him away almost immediately, hence why I said "briefly".

Then there is also this, which isn't gameplay:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/4122080-8349994218-41154.gif

Very well, well as I say considering Vader and Marek as practically equal in terms of ability. I can only imagine Marek has particular weak Force defenses, or Vader is very good at breaking them. Or both. Either way it doesn't matter, Mace Windu is a far more refined master of the Force than Starkiller, I really doubt he'd succumb to these kind of tactics, which would likely only prove effective against an adept like Marek.

In the novel, Palpatine pushes Mace but Mace uses telekinesis of his own to adjust the path of his movement so that he slammed into a stanchion instead of flying outside the window.

Not sure I'm convinced it was a maximum-effort or even high-effort showing from Palpatine, though, since I am one of those who believe Palpatine basically faked the duel.

Originally posted by SunRazer
In the novel, Palpatine pushes Mace but Mace uses telekinesis of his own to adjust the path of his movement so that he slammed into a stanchion instead of flying outside the window.

Not sure I'm convinced it was a maximum-effort or even high-effort showing from Palpatine, though, since I am one of those who believe Palpatine basically faked the duel. Ah I see, well that's not so much Force defenses but more recovery, but impressive none the less.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Mace takes sabers, Vader takes Force, and either could feasibly win overall.
I can see that
Originally posted by AncientPower
If he can stifle a Palpatine Force Push he can do better against Vader's, Vader isn't Force stomping Windu at all. Mace Windu is an extremely powerful Jedi Master above anyone bar Yoda and Dooku in the Order. Stop treating him like Trebor because even my IQ is suffering reading this stuff.
lol

Yeah, I must agree. Windu has beeen underestiamted lately imho.

The other side of that is, Anakin Skywalker pwned Dooku, and Dooku can outfence Mace.

If A is greater then B, and B is greater then C...

Also relevant, ROTJ Vader would defeat his younger self.

ROTJ Vader wouldn't outduel his younger self, though.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
The other side of that is, Anakin Skywalker pwned Dooku, and Dooku can outfence Mace.

If A is greater then B, and B is greater then C...

Also relevant, ROTJ Vader would defeat his younger self. Anakin didn't outfence Dooku though, he crushed him through sheer Force power, exploiting Makashi's weakness against strong styles.

That wouldn't work against Mace, so in that respect your ABC logic is flawed.

ABC logic typically does.

Kenobi > Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi

Originally posted by SunRazer

Not sure I'm convinced it was a maximum-effort or even high-effort showing from Palpatine, though, since I am one of those who believe Palpatine basically faked the duel.

I'm kinda with you on that one.

Originally posted by Stigma
Kenobi > Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi

LOL basically

Originally posted by Stigma
Kenobi > Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Someone like Vader, who atomized Lyleks and briefly chocked Galen Marek, would have no problem ragdolling Mace with the Force.

No, Mace was slammed with the Force by Palpatine, but was able to recover before Sidious could cut him down. Vader isn't ragdolling shit.


Originally posted by SunRazer
In the novel, Palpatine pushes Mace but Mace uses telekinesis of his own to adjust the path of his movement so that he slammed into a stanchion instead of flying outside the window.

Not sure I'm convinced it was a maximum-effort or even high-effort showing from Palpatine, though, since I am one of those who believe Palpatine basically faked the duel.

Palpatine didn't fake the duel, but he wasn't giving it his all as he was only using one saber. Two saber Palpatine would likely defeat Mace in that scenario. Still think he'd lose to Yoda though.

It's pretty clear in the novel that he threw the duel, Ultimate Star Wars suggests this also.

Anyway you still haven't prove Jar'Kai is Palps preferred style...

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's pretty clear in the novel that he threw the duel, Ultimate Star Wars suggests this also.

Anyway you still haven't prove Jar'Kai is Palps preferred style...


No the novel makes it clear he threw the fight when Palpatine is blasting Mace with lightning. The duel not so much.
http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/clone-wars/the-lawless-trivia-gallery

"That Darth Sidious fights with two lightsabers is evident in Episode III-he has two lightsabers in ROTS though he never has the opportunity to wield them simultaneously since he loses one against Mace Windu before dueling Yoda."

in the movie their is no real answer to whether he threw the fight or not as Luca not Disney haven't given any official answer. However whether he was going all out or not, the novel states the two could have fought on forever until someone lost all of their stamina. This could also translate to the movies as Sidious was blue to go toe to toe with yoda someone who is above windu. Also in the movie Sidious had different times he could have taken windu out with his blade or his force abilities yet didn't and those moments were painfully obvious.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No the novel makes it clear he threw the fight when Palpatine is blasting Mace with lightning. The duel not so much.
http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/clone-wars/the-lawless-trivia-gallery

"That Darth Sidious fights with two lightsabers is evident in Episode III-he has two lightsabers in ROTS though he never has the opportunity to wield them simultaneously since he loses one against Mace Windu before dueling Yoda."

Why does it matter again if he uses one or two? He's a master of all seven forms so he can work with either. That's why he was able to go toe to toe with yoda. He can work with two sabers, or he can work with one.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No the novel makes it clear he threw the fight when Palpatine is blasting Mace with lightning. The duel not so much.
http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/clone-wars/the-lawless-trivia-gallery
I wouldn't say so. The novel makes it clear that Windu "beat" Palpatine in lightsaber combat by using his fear against him, however it is later revealed/implied that the fear he was actually sensing was Anakin's, he was tricked. Originally posted by Lord Stark
"That Darth Sidious fights with two lightsabers is evident in Episode III-he has two lightsabers in ROTS though he never has the opportunity to wield them simultaneously since he loses one against Mace Windu before dueling Yoda." Really? That's it? The fact that he didn't have the opportunity to use Jar'Kai against Yoda does not mean it is his preference. If it were then he would have prepared two lightsabers to use Jar'Kai against Mace & co. he didn't.

Fear or no, they had achieved impasse beforehand.

Indeed they were stuck at an impasse, so Windu being a sneaky bastard used the window ledge so Sidious would have to redirect some of his Force power to stop himself flying out of the window, with his speed decreased Windu disarmed him and won the duel.

Windu outsmarted Sidious in combat, unfortunately for Windu he was never going to last in a Force contest with Sidious even with his blade so he himself was outsmarted directly afterwards.

Windu legit beat Sidious in a lightsabers only contest by using his environment.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Indeed they were stuck at an impasse, so Windu being a sneaky bastard used the window ledge so Sidious would have to redirect some of his Force power to stop himself flying out of the window, with his speed decreased Windu disarmed him and won the duel.

Windu outsmarted Sidious in combat, unfortunately for Windu he was never going to last in a Force contest with Sidious even with his blade so he himself was outsmarted directly afterwards.

Windu legit beat Sidious in a lightsabers only contest by using his environment.
I concur. Good post

As a duelist Mace is top 5 tbh.