Vader/Maul/Dooku vs. Kenobi/Anakin/Mace

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carthage
Battle takes place on neutral ground

SunRazer
Team 1's Force edge gives them the win.

AncientPower
Anakin > Dooku.
Mace > Vader.
Kenobi > Maul.

SunRazer
Well, technically, this can go either way because depending on who fights all, the outcome varies. However, Kenobi is a significant weak link in regards to Force power, which probably gives team 1 the slight edge.

AncientPower
Yet Anakin is the best duelist and very likely the fastest here, with Windu, Dooku and Vader rough equals with Maul and Kenobi on the lower ring.

Trocity
Team 1.

Vader>Anakin
Dooku>=Mace
Maul>=Kenobi

Stigma
Interesting fight tbh.

Not sure.

EmperorSidious2
Vader>Kenobi
Maul<Anakin
Dooku>/=Mace

Vader would have to be the tipping point because really Vader would have to fight Anakin while Dooku would have to hold up Windu. Vader I would say is definitely the more sophisticated duels it's which is going to be the only factor in a vader vs Anakin battle. Even in the force I would say that Vader has the edge.

AncientPower
Anakin has better dueling feats than his Sith alter ego, stomping Dooku is well beyond any feat Vader has.

EmperorSidious2
Seeing as how he did that with a dark side amp I find that Vader can counter that as he would be way more experienced and is much stronger than Dooku so any assault he brings he could withstand. Also he has more styles at his disposal than Vader. Anakin didn't stomp him that fight, if he hadn't had that amp Dooku would have won, Dooku was able to hold off his assault.

AncientPower
Amp? He just went all out on him and Dooku got dismantled.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, technically, this can go either way because depending on who fights all, the outcome varies. However, Kenobi is a significant weak link in regards to Force power, which probably gives team 1 the slight edge. Yeah, that's my line of thinking, too.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Yeah, that's my line of thinking, too. This tbh. Way I see it they are collectively equal as duellists, but Team 1 has a overall Force advantage.

Angelalex242
Well...I think the Jedi have it.

Kenobi can hold off anyone for a while, because that's what Soresu does for a living. It holds people off. Assuming he's fighting Maul...well, Juyo is not a particularly good way to go after Soresu.

Anakin vs. Dooku ...See Invisible Hand for details. Poor Dooku.

Mace vs. Vader Ehhhhhhhh. Drawish. Vapaad cancels out most of Vader's advantages, and Shatterpoint is an excellent tool against anyone with cybernetics.

At any rate, Anakin vs. Dooku will finish first in Anakin's favor, and he'll arrive in time to save poor Obi Wan...or Mace, if necessary.

Stigma
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Well...I think the Jedi have it.

Kenobi can hold off anyone for a while, because that's what Soresu does for a living. It holds people off. Assuming he's fighting Maul...well, Juyo is not a particularly good way to go after Soresu.

Anakin vs. Dooku ...See Invisible Hand for details. Poor Dooku.

Mace vs. Vader Ehhhhhhhh. Drawish. Vapaad cancels out most of Vader's advantages, and Shatterpoint is an excellent tool against anyone with cybernetics.

At any rate, Anakin vs. Dooku will finish first in Anakin's favor, and he'll arrive in time to save poor Obi Wan...or Mace, if necessary.
You know, the more I think about it, the more possible this scenario seems to me.

Anakin will defeat Dooku, again.

Kenobi will hold off Maul in their 74th duel

and Windu will give a hell of a fight to Vader.

Team Jedi has the slight edge.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by AncientPower
Amp? He just went all out on him and Dooku got dismantled.

So he wasn't going all out the first few minutes of the duel? Well that's wrong as he would have no reason not to hold back as he has faced Dooku several times and lost a hand to him so he wouldn't hold back.

He received a dark side amp because Dooku pissed him off.

Angelalex242
The invisible hand duel has no proven amps on Anakin. That's just his level now. At least till he turns to the Dark Side and loses it.

Anakin, for the record, would pwn suitless Vader on Mustafar.

EmperorSidious2
So he is fighting and all of a sudden Dooku pisses him off and he goes mad and all of a sudden Dooku is getting pushed back after an entire duel of Dooku basically winning?

Angelalex242
People call it a lot of things. Some call it 'Zonakin' and thing he's reaching his full potential temporarily.

I've never heard a consensus. My opinion is that it's just his baseline till he turns into suitless Vader and loses a chunk of power in the process.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Angelalex242
People call it a lot of things. Some call it 'Zonakin' and think he's reaching his full potential temporarily.
In his fight with Dooku?!

Here's to anyone who thinks that that was Anakin's full potential after seeing the Mortis Trilogy:

watch?v=3_8DUsl1Ea4

Sinious
Dooku vs Mace makes sense imo and its the fight that would last the longest. Vader should defeat his former self meanwhile.

AncientPower
Anakin is faster and better than Vader, nothing Vader has done compares to stomping Dooku.

carthage
He never stomped Dooku lmao

AncientPower
The book makes it clear that he stomped him:

Dooku saw only an electric haze instead of Skywalker.
Dooku felt like a weak old man getting hit with the force of a meteor.
Dooku admitted Anakin was the best Form V duelist he'd seen.
Dooku also admits total inferiority.
Mace later concludes that Anakin may well be the most powerful Jedi alive after doing what he couldn't.

Anakin trashed Dooku as soon as it became 1 vs 1.

Sinious
Originally posted by carthage
He never stomped Dooku lmao

thumb up

Sinious
Originally posted by AncientPower
The book makes it clear that he stomped him:

Dooku saw only an electric haze instead of Skywalker.
Dooku felt like a weak old man getting hit with the force of a meteor.
Dooku admitted Anakin was the best Form V duelist he'd seen.
Dooku also admits total inferiority.
Mace later concludes that Anakin may well be the most powerful Jedi alive after doing what he couldn't.

Anakin trashed Dooku as soon as it became 1 vs 1.

Lol I guess Anakin > Yoda confirmed.

carthage
He saw an "electric blue haze" because he was reaching the point of exhaustion, Anakin was calling deeper on the force to kill him hence why it said he was spending lavishly just fending him off. Anakin had to call on his reserves to kill him because Dooku is a formidable duelist not because he is a weak old man, he isn't Darth Bane lol

AncientPower
Anakin still totally dominated him, seriously stop with the semantics and show me anything Vader did that compares.

EmperorSidious2
Your view that Anakin dominated Dooku is flawed. The entire duel before then was basically Dooku holding the two off and then taking out Kenobi then fighting Anakin and then kicking him. He then held off Anakin and was basically winning until Dokku used Dun Moch. Even then Dooku was able to hold Anakins assault off and was even smiling during one of those points. So whatever the outcome it wasn't a stomp, it was a defeat for Dooku yes but certainly not a stomp as if Dooku would have kept his mouth shut Dooku would have killed Anakin.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by AncientPower
Anakin is faster and better than Vader, nothing Vader has done compares to stomping Dooku.

He is faster but better not so sure. Vader is more experienced, and has more styles at his disposal and each is refined to the point of almost perfection as he would need to sense he can't just rely on raw skill anymore. Also Vader has learned from his mistakes as Anakin while Anakin will have to live through those mistakes. Vader can withstand Anakins assault as Dooku was able to and he is much weaker than Anakin in terms of physical strength so Vader would be able to push him back. His weapon is also better than Anakins as it has a dual blade function.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by AncientPower
The book makes it clear that he stomped him:

Dooku saw only an electric haze instead of Skywalker.
Dooku felt like a weak old man getting hit with the force of a meteor.
Dooku admitted Anakin was the best Form V duelist he'd seen.
Dooku also admits total inferiority.
Mace later concludes that Anakin may well be the most powerful Jedi alive after doing what he couldn't.

Anakin trashed Dooku as soon as it became 1 vs 1.

Well that just remarks how fast Anakin was moving.
Describing Anakins strength and also do we need to bring in other duels with those two.
Doesn't mean he was stomped just regarding that he is the best practioner of that form
He would never do that and based on feats he isn't inferior to Anakin in any way.
In terms of raw power he is and would have become the most powerful being ever but really that statement is wrong as yoda and possibly mace and even Dooku are more powerful than Anakin. Think about it. If Anakin couldn't get passed Obi wan he would be dominated by Dooku in the Force.

AncientPower
Have you even read the novel? Dooku gets destroyed as soon as it becomes a 1 vs 1, he can't keep up in either speed nor strength and was drawing heavily on the Force so as not to simply have his body fail him during the very short exchange.

Also bringing up any TCW fights is largely irrelevant as we know ROTS is Anakin's prime. Mace Windu admits that Anakin is the most powerful for having the ability to kill Dooku where himself and Yoda failed.

Obi-Wan Kenobi was his master and knew his fighting style inside and out, furthermore that combined with his Soresu mastery and the environment was all that kept Kenobi in the game. Put it in a more hospitable environment and Vader likely wins.

Nick Gillard put it well when he said Kenobi was a tier 8 and Vader had jumped up to a tier 9 due to the dark side, but because he hadn't taken the time to truly master his skills that put him in trouble and caused his loss.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by AncientPower
Have you even read the novel? Dooku gets destroyed as soon as it becomes a 1 vs 1, he can't keep up in either speed nor strength and was drawing heavily on the Force so as not to simply have his body fail him during the very short exchange.

Also bringing up any TCW fights is largely irrelevant as we know ROTS is Anakin's prime. Mace Windu admits that Anakin is the most powerful for having the ability to kill Dooku where himself and Yoda failed.

Obi-Wan Kenobi was his master and knew his fighting style inside and out, furthermore that combined with his Soresu mastery and the environment was all that kept Kenobi in the game. Put it in a more hospitable environment and Vader likely wins.

Nick Gillard put it well when he said Kenobi was a tier 8 and Vader had jumped up to a tier 9 due to the dark side, but because he hadn't taken the time to truly master his skills that put him in trouble and caused his loss.

Yea and he seemed to be keeping up. Movies are the greater source of cannon. Movies is the better depiction. However again if Dooku would have just kept his mouth shut Dooku would have won.

Not really as they show that Dooku wa always the superior duelist even up to the last duel as seen Ho he was able to take on Anakin and Obi wan and keep them back and defeating them. Windu also said Sora Bulqs application of Vaapad was slightly below his own and then he changed it. Also yoda didn't fail anywhere. He dominated the fight with Dooku in AOTC and didn't he defeat a Vjun amped Dooku aswell? So with that not defeating Dooku means you are the most powerful Jedi? Dooku isn't the most powerful guy in the myths even of that time. Sidious and Yoda are and both are better than Dooku.

Again feeding into the Vader win as he knows Anakins style inside out better than anyone else being him only the more sophisticated, stronger, advanced skill set.

Exactly, he jumped to a tier 9 due to the dark side. So with that you admit there was an amp that put his skill above his normal levles.

AncientPower
Yet the ROTS novel makes it clear the outcome would have been the same regardless.

Except Vader is nowhere near KenobI in Soresu.

That isn't an amp it's called corruption and happened well after Dooku lost.

LFL states Vader has nowhere near the skill of his younger self, highest canon > legends statements.

Angelalex242
Anyways, Mace is more likely to square off against Vader, where Vapaad and Shatterpoint serve him best.

Hence my scenario of

Mace==Vader
Anakin>Dooku
Maul>=Obi Wan

And Anakin finishes Dooku first, and can proceed to mop up Maul and/or his older self.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yet the ROTS novel makes it clear the outcome would have been the same regardless.

Except Vader is nowhere near KenobI in Soresu.

That isn't an amp it's called corruption and happened well after Dooku lost.

LFL states Vader has nowhere near the skill of his younger self, highest canon > legends statements.

In both novel and movie Dooku lost but if he would have kept his mouth shut, Dooku would have won as he had kenobi down and was keeping up with Anakin easily and Anakin looked like he was having some trouble Dooku when they were in a blade lock.

He doesn't need to be in soresu when he has six other styles at his command and knows basically every weakness of Anakins style since he is the older version of Anakin.

It's called he got better out of no where which is aka an amp.

Well I've learned that just because someone says something without the feats to prove it, it means nothing. Why would his lightsaber prowess decline. Only his combat speed would be affected really. His strength would increase due to suit and would thus increase his performance with Djem So. He has way more experience than Anakin and knows his weaknesses as well as strengths. So maybe his force powers would decline but as per their skills with the blade Vader would be the winner. He has more styles, he is more experienced, knows Anakins weaknesses, has compensated for the weakness of his suit, has better durability and stamina, has the better weapon, is stronger, has matched and defeated faster duelist.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Anyways, Mace is more likely to square off against Vader, where Vapaad and Shatterpoint serve him best.

Hence my scenario of

Mace==Vader
Anakin>Dooku
Maul>=Obi Wan

And Anakin finishes Dooku first, and can proceed to mop up Maul and/or his older self.

I don't know why but I just go by like how the person order them

So I put Vader vs Kenobi, Maul vs Anakin, and Mace vs Dooku.

however if I had to get creative with it I would keep Dooku vs Mace which would last forever, maul vs Obi Wan and Anakin vs Vader.

NTJack0
Maul can be defeated by any of the three, then Dooku and Vader are at a disadvantage, until one of them ragdolls Kenobi.

Angelalex242
Well, even if it were Vader vs. Kenobi, Kenobi can hold out a shockingly long time. Vader will win, but no more can he say 'your powers are weak old man...' as this is basically the Kenobi that beat him on Mustafar. And Soresu will ensure Obi Wan doesn't get to his 'strike me down' line before help arrives.

It's actually one of the worst case scenarios for Vader, as Maul and Dooku will quickly get mopped up by Anakin and Mace.

EmperorSidious2
We also have to look at it this way. Kenobi himself admits that if Anakin wasn't so arrogant he would have won and he admits that Anakin was the better sword master. Vader IMO only got better and more experienced and isn't nearly as arrogant and can also just ragdoll kenobi. Dooku and Mace will last forever so that would leave a vader vs Anakin in which Vader would win and both Dooku and Mace would be exhausted and since mace is outnumbered and thus out powered he would be defeated. So having kenobi as the weak link is why the jedi lose.

Trocity
Peak Vader would absolutely destroy Kenobi with the Force, if he elected to.

Same with an unhindered Anakin. Kenobi holding out against him for so long is a very overrated feat, which is sort of funny because Kenobi is largely underrated.

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