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I've just flicked through the threads, and seen some attention to the mystery of who deleted the record of the Komina system from the archive (presumably a Jedi, according to what is said). I haven't seen any attention to who actually made the order to build the clone army. (If I am missing something unbelievably obvious, please point this out, )

I tend to agree with the "Anakin, manipulated by Palpatine" theory, but my problem with this is that someone must have made the order to the Kominans (?) to clone Jango Fett and construct a large army. This would have involved visiting Komina itself (since the receptionist says the word "return" when Obi-Wan visits) and presumably paid them a lot of dosh. ("big pocketbook" reference).

So who did this?

1, Anakin would have been far too young to do this, and even if you surmise that he could have got away from Obi-Wan long enough to delete the library record, I severely doubt he could have gone to a planet beyond the outer rim / 12 parsecs away.

2, Obi-Wan says that the Jedi the Kominan PM refers to (Sayfa Diaz?) died before the order was made. So it is obviously someone posing as this character.

3, I think it would have to be a Jedi. The Kominans appear to recognise Obi-Wan instantly as a Jedi, and someone who needs to be informed of the progress of the order made 10 years ago.


This leads me to one of three conclusions about who would have done this. Either:

a) the order was made by a "good" Jedi like Mace Windu, anticipating the problems seen in Episode 2 (ie, democracy breaking down, enemies gathering and so on). I don't think this is likely, given the "good" Jedis genuine surprise at this development. They also seem to have a lack of foresight, which rules out this possibility in my mind at least.

b) the order was made by a "good" Jedi, but manipulated by Palpatine. This seems a bit lame, but it kinda fits with the conspiracy theory that he is pulling all the strings, creating a situation where he is dictator of the republic (and potentially of all planets, if the republic defeats the separatists).

c) the order was made by an "evil" Jedi, such as Count Dooku. This seems a bit dumb, given that this army is eventually used against Dooku in the initial stage of the clone wars. But it could be another use of the concept where someone leaves a tool for an enemy to use, but it eventually works against that enemy because it draws them into a trap (like Solo using Cloud City in Episode V).

The "trap" in this case is essentially that providing this army invites the republic to give emergency powers to Palpatine, since they couldn't pass a vote to create an army.

I also think that the order may have been made by Dooku, given that the template for the clones is Jango Fett.


My overall conclusion is that the order was made by Dooku. I think that the records were then deleted by Anakin (persuaded by Palpatine) as a (deliberately?) clumsy attempt to cover Dooku's tracks. Possibly the assassination attempts on Amidala were designed to reveal the existence of the clone army. (hidden meaning) For this all to happen, presumably there has to be some unknown communication between Dooku and Palpatine.

Or perhaps I have an over-developed conspiratorial imagination?

indeed, was a jedi
"Sifo Dias is still a leading member of the Jedi Council, is he not?"

your point a isn't correct
"Did he ever got the authorisation to create this clone army?"
-"No, whoever did that, did not had the authorisation of the council."
Yoda doesn't react, so Mace should be cleared

b could be correct, but then it has to be Dooku, no?
see, Dooku left the order after TPM, and at that time Kamino got erased I guess, and the order was placed.

The assasination on Padme was not a hidden hint, it was something Nute Gunray insisted before signing the treaty
(don't know the exact quote though)

I always thought it was Qui Gon.

I thought it was Qui Gon cause the tall dude on Kamino said masters sifo dias's clones are ready, and Obi Wan told him that master sifo dias was killed almost ten years ago. And Qui Gon was killed ten years ago.

?????

There have been some discussions about QGJ being the one who placed the order for the clone army but that would suggest he used an alias when he did so. My central problem with this is why would a revered and well known Jedi Master like QGJ use another name to place such an order? Is this another attempt to show how unorthodox he really was by going behind the Council's backs?

The Qui-Gon idea is nonsense, always has been. Why would Obi-Wan have called him Sifo-Dyas? Yes, you can make up an extended rationale to explain that but that is just silly. The 'ten years ago' reference is simply because Palpatine started his new plan after the events of TPM. To say QGJ and Sifo-Dyas are the same person due to the proximity of their deaths is INTENSLY tenuous.

As I seem to keep saying lately, the most likely answer is still either Dooku or Palpatine, using te name of a recently deceased Jedi Master to cover it.

Incidentally, regardless of who Sifo-Dyas is, as Dooku provided the template for the army (another reason QGJ could not have done it because Dooku would not have been involved in this plan until after Maul, and so QGJ, died and without the template there WAS no order for Sifo-Dyas to place) then the point that he helped create an army that was used 'against' him is a thing to automatically think, not a dumb idea. Dooku planned it that way from the start.

However, Anakin deleteing the Kamino records is also incredibly unlikely. They were most likely deleted when the clone order was made; Anakin was too young to be dong things like that. Even if it was done around the time of the film it is still too early for Anakin to be doing dodgy things like that. As yerssot says, the culprit is far more likely to be Dooku. We know he is involed with the army's creation, so why not him?

I say it was Count Dooku and not Anakin, Qui Gon Jinn, or Mace Windu.

done and done then? closing?

Not my call.

I read sumwhere cant remember where, that it was Palpatine poseing as Sifo-Dyas!

probably here

Yes I believe Ush(and others no doubt) have suggested Palpatine may have impersonated this dead Jedi Master. We know he existed because of Yoda and Windu's reaction at the name in Clones. So he was once known to both the heads of the Council. Palpatine(Or Dookue for that matter) probably used that name when they made the order for the clone army from the cloners on Kamino.

i'd have to say dooku or palpatine. after all they both have aliases, so it seems feasable that they would put the order of a clone army under syfo dyas.

It's by no means a certainity but it's the simplest and most convenient explanation we have right now.

Jango Fett obviosly knew both identeties of Dooku as he replies to Obi Wan that he was recruted by Lord Tyranus on the moons of Bogden.
I think it is Palpatine who ordered the construction of the Clones, after all Plapatine/Sideous have done is to try distabilize the entire Galactical Republic

I think Palpatine did it too, because didn't dooku say "How could the jedi come up with an army so fast?"

????

Yes he did but that could have been for the benefit of his warmonger allies though.

Dooku play the fool in front of his allies after all he is suppose to be on their side. Fact is that together with his master they form the third party here, their plan was to throw the Republic into a war by aiding/tricking both sides( Republic & Seperatists) to reach their real purpose:the coup of the Galactic Republic for the purpose of transforming it into an empire

If tDooku and Palpatine could use a fake name then why couldn'g quigonn?

because he was dead at that time

Quigonn died ten years ago. Sifodyas died over ten years ago. There was some time in there.

we dont know exactly when sifo dyas died

over ten years ago!

no, almost ten years ago
qui gon died ten years ago

And the order was placed after Qui-Gon died. And why WOULD he use a false name. And how could be use one without Obi-Wan knowing?

The idea is patently absurd.

I have already addressed this somewhere else on here........

are you sure?

First Obi wan says that SFD was killed almost 10 years ago, and we know he saw QJ killed with his own eyes! So how could they be the same person. Obi obviously has some knowledge of who SFD was and so do Mace and Yoda. I dont think QJ could have fooled both of them!

I am pretty sure that the Kaminions say that SFD made the order? But who told him to place the order is the real question.

Qui Gon Jinn was not the one who placed the order for the clone army. He is not Syfo Dyas.

that's what omegaman said yes

That is my personal belief on this most fascinating subject.

Great minds think alike I guess! Glad to see someone else has a brain.

Plenty of great minds around here.

We shall see.

If you are saying that everyone who does not think QGJ is Sifo-Dyas has a great mind then simply check the threads and you will find loads.

Actually I was speaking in general, but thanks for the "heads up".

QGJ is sifo dias for the last time.

hmm... nah

Well, then what is the deal with Qui-Gonn? Something is up with him. He is not completely who we believe him to be. don't y'all agree?

No, not really. Why should there be more to him than what we saw?

you're right, he's dead

again SW aint suppose to be complex, it is a straight forward story, so what you see is what you get........ .more or less

Not always. There is still the sith to consider after all. They don't strike me as a straight forward lot at all.

yes they do, they are the bad guys and they are tricky and powerful

Why didn't he disappear? If it isn't important then why is it going to be answered? GL said he would answer it!

You got it backwards, Lauren. The question is why the Jedi in the original films disappear, not why does Qui-Gon NOT. Jedi do NOT disappear when they die- something weird happens with the ones from the classic films.

yeah they disappear

"Someday I'll even learn people to stop from dieing"
-Anakin, AOTC

Originally posted by justinday15
I thought it was Qui Gon cause the tall dude on Kamino said masters sifo dias's clones are ready, and Obi Wan told him that master sifo dias was killed almost ten years ago. And Qui Gon was killed ten years ago.

I think you could be right because dooku said to obi wan when he was being held prisoner that Qui Gon knew the truth about the chancellor and knew it would lead to war. So he could have erased the kamino files to prevent any one else knowing about it until the right time.

So if both were killed 10 years ago big deal.
(Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King JR both were killed in 1968 doesnt mean they were the same person) they aint the same Obi obvious knew about this Sifo Dyas carachter, strange thing Obi Wan being QG`s padawan he wouldnt have learned about an alter ego

No he didnt, Dooku said if Qui Gon had learned the truth like he had

count dooku ordered the clone troopers. super size, by the looks of it. the kamino cloners said that syfo dias ordered them, but it was dooku using syfo dias's name. dooku is also lord tyrranus, the man who picked jango fett as the template for the clone soldiers. count dooku>syfo dias> lord tyrranus.

hmm I think Syfo Dias is a jedi of his own

yes, he is a jedi of his own. my guess is that he was killed by count dooku. dooku then used his name when dealing with the cloners. again, this is my GUESS.

not a bad guess

Here's my thoughts:
1) We know that two Force induced characters died ten years ago -
Qui-Gon and Darth Maul.
2) We all know obviously that the Clonetroopers become Stormtroopers
so we all also know that the Republic also becomes the Empire.
Therefore the Seperatists become the Rebel Alliance.
3) Is Dooku really good or evil?
a) Why did he tell Obi-Wan that a Sith was in control of the council?
b) Why did he wish Qui-Gon was alive to help him?
c) Why did he try to secure Obi-Wan's release?
d) If he ordered the clones, why was he surprised when they showed
up, unless he didn't expect them to be used against him? Jango
Obviously wasn't surprised - he knew about them and had no
reaction and had no problems with killing them.
e) My personal assumption is that Dooku is working undercover - in
TFM, the Jedi feared the return of the Sith as they hadn't been
around for some time. So when they suddenly reappear, maybe
they send Dooku out to flush the Sith out. Everything in AOTC
might have been set up, up to a point and they didn't anticipate on
Obi-Wan or Anakin to be in the mess.
f) If Dooku is really evil then it can only be surmised that he was
instructed by Palpatine as Sidious to cause enough trouble in other
worlds to make the creation of the Army of the Republic necessary.
4) Curiously Mace and Yoda agree that Dooku can't be a terrorist, as he
was a Jedi and it simply couldn't be in him, so at this point, a Jedi
turning to the dark side is unheard of, unless they just say this to hide
the fact that some Jedi got tired of their idealistic ways and turned to
the dark side, but not since the great Sith War. (they said how many
years it had been in TPM)

We seem to all agree that Sifo-Dyas is someone we already know.
1) Palpatine 2) Qui-Gon 3) Dooku 4) Darth Maul
These seem to be the favorites. This and whether or not Dooku is really working for Palpatine or if he is undercover himself to flush out the Sith are the two big questions...

my answers to your thoughts:

Dooku: he said so to confuse OB1, quite easy, confuse him, perhaps even get him dark and get a new ally with that
He mentioned QG because that was OB1's master and with mentioning that QG would follow him, he hoped OB1 would do that too. He never wanted to secure his release, he said that to convince OB1 to join him.
yeah, he knew, cause his instructions were clear:
"I have good news for you m'lord... the war has begun."
-"Excellent, you have done well, lord tyrannus"

How can the jedi ever "flush out" the sith if they still don't know if they killed the master or the apprentice, let alone stand that they know where they're hiding? there are only two! well, one at that time, left.

Actually, Yoda never said anything about him not being a terrorist...it was Ki-Adi and Mace.
"He's a political idealist, not a murder."
-"You do know that count dooku was once one of us, he couldn't murder anyone, it's not in his character."

I just find it hard to believe that Dooku is cut and dry the apprentice of Palpatine/Darth Sidious...there's something more to him.
Maybe did say it to confuse Obi-Wan, but letting the cat out of the bag like that, I don't know I think GL has something up his sleeve that he thinks nobody will figure out.
I'm sure nobody ever expected Anakin to be the creator/rebuilder of C3PO so his crazy mind could come up with something else that doesn't make sense...but Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, and Yoda definitely know who Sifo-Dyas is. We just don't know yet. They also know there is a Sith running around, and as you've said they don't know if it was the Master or the Apprentice, either way they know there's someone out there. Maybe someone on the Jedi council sent Dooku to try and find him or Dooku decided to do that on his own as he thought it stupid if they didn't try to track down the Sith...so he left.

why does it have to be more complicated than Dooku (who hired the clone source, thus standing to reason that whole job was entrusted to him since I doubt the Sith like using anyone BUT Sith for such important work) simply used an alias? I see it mentioned but people keep trying to make it something more. it was a fake ID. its all he needed. They probably just picked (and/or Killed) Dyas because it would throw the Jedi for a loop. And I don't even think its that complicated. I think Dooku just said a name. Dex pointed out the Kaminoans care a lot about money, you think if Dooku gave the however many millions it takes to buy an army that size, they're gonna check his F***in' ID? No. I really don't think this needs to be more complicated than that, and I don't see any valid reasonin to suggest its more than that. Dooku hires Jango, takes Jango to Kamino, Jango's getting paid enough (and is professional enough) not to ask questions, the kaminoans think they're building it for a Jedi and they're also well paid so they aren't asking questions. and i really think thats all there is to it. its all there, in the films, even without citing EU you could prove this. You just have to take a step back, "unlearn what you have learned" and you'll see it there plain as day, like a road map.

If it was a fake ID then still the name Sifo-Dyas has to have been someone significant. The name definitely means something to Yoda and Windu. If Lucas just put that in there to throw us off it's as silly as those old shows where you see two villians talking about thier plans and one suddenly says "I already know the plan you idiot!" and the other one responds "I'm not telling you, i'm telling them..." (pointing at the screen). I don't think Lucas is that far gone yet...I can agree on the fake ID thing and that nobody involved (Jango or the Geonosians) would ask questions.
Still leaves one to wonder, are the Clonetroopers designed/programmed to obey anyone in particular? The Jedi seem to be commanding them at this point so at some point Palpatine does...possibly after Anakin kills all the remaining Jedi.
Possibly the Clone Wars cartoon will reveal something, since the second season is coming out next spring, the cartoon might simply be filler material for between Ep2 and Ep3...

No, Syfo Dyas doesn't have to be anything special. they could have picked anybody not on the council and no one would notice or care. It could the a SW version of Jon Doe, it doesn't matter, and it doesn't effect the overall plot other than it allowed the Sith to create a clone army to back up they're power once they siezed it. Lucas isn't trying to throw us off, hes trying to throw his characters off, I don't think he's hidden anything from the active viewer that pays attention.
The Clonetroopers are (for certain) programed to listen to the Jedi...but it is rumored that another commander supercedes they're rank....and not Anakin
and as for the cartoons purpose: definetly.

It will be interesting to see where the cartoon ends things.
It's also neat to know finally what the Stormtroopers look like under their helmets. I used to think they were robots like the Cylons when I was a kid.

Before that whole thing about clone troopers becoming stormtroopers, you didnt realy need to know what they looked under their maks since they were sought out to be normal humans in suits. I know what you mean though since they are a kind of mysterious and unrevealing bunch.
But I dont like the idea of them being clones especialy sine EU tells otherwise.

i think dooku killed master syfo dias and assumed his identity, then ordered the clone troopers.

but then he would have to kill him without a sabre I think, otherwise if he did, and Syfo ordered the clones when they found his body with sabre-holes, they would know the sith is behind it

does it matter? he's dead. we're supposed to have it explained in 3 anyway. Lucas says in the II commentary, by the end of three "you will know who ordered the clones".

Rogue Jedi-I completely agree.

he could have disposed of the body.

I think we can assume, without question, that Palpatine ordered the clones. He is the only one who would have anything to gain by plunging the galaxy into war, as it is only during war that he could take absolute control.

The theory that Sifo-Dias is Palpatine is an interesting one, but one that I think ultimately won't pan out. It's a bit too complex to explain with all of the OTHER stuff that's gotta happen in Episode III.

Here's my personal theory: Palpatine revealed himself to Syfo-Dias (I'm going to the other spelling now.) and told him his "plan" to use the seperatists to destroy the Jedi and the Republic. After this, he made it seem that Dias defeated him and fled. Dias, thinking that the republic would need something more powerful than the Jedi to overcome Sidious, commissioned the Clone Army. As soon as he was finished, Palpatine and either Maul or Dooku, depending on when this took place, killed him, making it look as if it was NOT caused by a Sith. Then they simply had to send Jango along and erase Camino from the archives. (Which means it was most likely Dooku.)

Of course, this would ALSO mean that Sidious planned to have Obi-wan find Camino, which would mean that he put him on the mission of protecting Padme KNOWING he would stop Zam, and told Jango to use a caminoan saber dart. Whew. Now THAT'S a plan worthy of a Sith Lord.

It seems almost certain that is why Jango used the Dart- there seems no other logical reason for it.

But did Obi-Wan find it too fast? Jango seemed unpleased to see him. You might think Jango was MEANT to lead Obi-Wan to Geonosis- but Jango's attempt to kill Obi-Wan on ground and in space seemed genuine to me.

I think the plasn went a little wrong0 so Dooku had to fight his way out- but other than that went as Sidious planned.

Well, perhaps Jango was meant to lead Obi-wan to Geonosis, but Sidious didn't inform Jango of this fact. Either that, or Sidious just planned to have the republic and the separatists fight at some point, and got lucky on Geonosis.

Vengence GOD-How did you figure that one out? that palpatine ordered the clones? Hope you didn't loose any sleep over that one. DUH! The only question there is was it him PERSONALLY or was it Dooku. But we all know who technically ordered them.

Godfather- HE'S ACTING, FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE SEPARATIST LEADERS so that they don't know he's leading them off a cliff so to speak. How could he be surprised when HE'S the one who hired Jango and just happens to be working for the Sith Lord who we know is scamming the whole galaxy. Here's an offer you shouldn't refuse, watch the movie again and pay attention

Why is this so hard for some people to understand? its all there. its all in episode 2. its barely even hidden. Once you know Dooku is Tyranous (which most of us heard before we saw it anyway, be it from spoilers or hasbro's poor choice in releasing a deluxe Dooku call Darth Tyranous) and watch the movie again, its really obvious who did what and why. Not to mention we know where all of this stuff ends up so with that info and whats in 2, just connect the dots people. Its really not this complicated. Dias was working for Palpatine? Commisioned an army to defend the Republic instead of going straight to the council like any normal Jedi, especially since they all heard about Maul no doubt. IT. IS. NOT. THIS. DIFFICULT.

CALM. DOWN. lol. You've taken the obvious route. I chose to take a more complicated one. That doesn't make either one of us right. We'll have to wait and see until Episode III.

actually we know from the movie dat Dooku is Darth Tyranus...

"Welcome home, lord Tyranus"

That's what mephisto said yerssot. "Once you know Dooku is Tyranus..."

he didn't mentioned the movie

"Once you know Dooku is Tyranus..." that meant the movie.

"which most of us heard before we saw it anyway, be it from spoilers or hasbro's poor choice in releasing a deluxe Dooku call Darth Tyranous."

that was just a sarcastic comment of the way hasbro revealed that Dooku is Tyranus, the sith lord, which should of been revealed in the film.

juuuuust pointing out

no problem, I like to contradict people too.

Dirty Vader-THANKS!
Yerrsot- Yeah, when I said in parenthesis, even though most of us knew before, that meant before the movie told us. thats why that comment was separated from the rest of the sentence.
Vengence- True. I'm just getting sick of some of these crazy theories when the answer is in the film. You're not right. True. I'm not trying to be right, I'm saying whats already there on film when you pay attention. There is no right or wrong when the answer is already there. Sifo Dyas was nothing more than a Jedi name Dooku used. I don't even think it was meant to throw off the Jedi. But that's irrelevant. Dooku would just need to give the Kaminoans a name. It was probably a dead jedi just so the Kaminoans couldn't ever get in contact with him should they need to, even though they wouldn't since they implied they were waiting for his return. Dooku just picked a name. it doesn't need to mean anything. i don't care if we ever hear who Dyas was. he's trivial. it was just so we knew for sure the Sith did it and not the Jedi.

Yeah, your theory is the simplist and probably the one that will turn out to be true. I just like to give Sidious a lot of credit.

Godfather- incorrect. Obi-Wan says Sifo-Dyas died ALMOST ten years ago- the opppsite of 'over'. So the rest of your logic falls apart.

It is Mace and Yoda he says to that he thought Sifo-Dyas had died before that time.

i think its yoda..... hes old enoough.. and uhh he did tell obi wan to go there did he not? sorry if the answer is already here... i didnt read all of it

I think Jango used that Kaminoa dart so that it would be impossible for him to be traced. He used that dart because the archives didnt have Kaminoa in its memory banks. Remember that in order to discover the source of that dart, Obi Wann had to ask Dexx, an unimportant guy uknown to the Sith.

If Jango had just shot Zam he never would have been traced, would he? Or if he had used any non-Kaminoan weapon the Clones would never have been found.

No, that had to be deliberate. The Jedi HAD to discover that clone army. It is almost certain that the Jedi would have eventually found that link and the conspicuous absence of the planet of origin from their data banks. Obi-Wan just did it faster than expected.

OB1 had to investigate the wannabe-murder attempt on Amidala,
Yoda never said "go to Kamino, you must, or kick you I will" or anything, he let him do his job and when he was on Kamino, the only thing Yoda said was to arrest Jango because he was the bounty hunter they were looking for
he didn't do it

godfather, again, watch the movie again and pay attention. Dooku left the order right after Qui-gon died. That was the last straw for him, whether or not he was or was not in contact with Palpatine then or just after we do not know. But Sifo Dyas would have been killed shortly after this point too. then the Sith ordered the clones. As Ush pointed out, "almost" is just short of, not exactly 10 years. Didn't somebody even define that to kill that arguement a while back?

That was me.

i like this whole Jango thing. its interesting. Maybe the they needed the Jedi to find Kamino so that, as far as the galaxy at large was concerned, it would look as though the Jedi had in fact ordered the army, which would give Palpatine another point of bad press to use against the Jedi in III when he deals with them, its widely understood that the normal people in the galaxy don't really like Jedi getting involved in there buisness, and they don't know much about them so they're not widely trusted. Now it looks as though the Jedi went and ordered an army. I'm sure most citizens of the Republic will be angry about that. If something like this is the case, then I doubt Jango was even aware of it, he was probably told to use the weapon or one similar. But it could also just be that he likes using them because they're effective and not widely available.

Yes, I think it is very important to Palpatine's plan that the Jedi found the Clone army. And if you accept that, that he was leaving a trail seems the only logical reason for Jango to use that weapon- because, looking at it from the other side (so far we have said that he had no other reason to use it)- how else would the Jedi ever have found it?

the point has to be that the Jedi started it,
they did something on a planet where they shouldn't have been on in the first place cause it's not in the republic anymore
and they created an army when the debate was still going

funny huh

Nah. Maul died before the Clones were ordered. As GL says, Sidious starts to look at Clones AFTER the failure of the Battle Droids on Naboo.

see, Maul died EXACTLY then years ago, Sifo ALMOST ten years,
you know it's not the real Sifo that did it, but the Sith or one of their affiliates, so it just couldn't be Maul, cause at the time the order got in (from a guy named Sifo-Dyas and the "template" provided by a guy named Tyranus, from one of the moons of Bogden), he was in two pieces somewhere in a shaft on Naboo

First thing is the dates are not exact, and maul could have died almost 10 years before just as he could have died just over 10 year before. And if maul was dead that does not leave a lot of time for Palpatine to recruit dooku.

Secondly it is highly likely that Jango was at the meeting or at least seen Sifo-Dyas, and we know he as meet dooku, if dooku placed the order, Jango would know they where the same person, yea.

as i say its a grey area, and will be told in EPIII.

no, it's all really clearly laid out!
ANH is "point zero"
TPM: 32 years before ANH
AOTC: 22 years before ANH
EpIII: 20 years before ANH

there's 10 years between TPM and AOTC, not 9, not 11, ten, exactly ten, this has been confirmed by Lucas and McCallum on numerous occasions!

how can you know Jango saw sifo? did he say that?
and he probably knows the entire story, or the highlights at least, but he doesn't talk, why should he? he gets payed for getting cloned and he continues to do his work and with his actions he'll probably get even more work

as far as we know, if they say it's ten years in between, it's exactly ten years in between!
it's CLEARLY said that Maul died ten years ago and sifo ALMOST ten years ago! it's REDICULOUS if you keep nagging about it, cause if you do, please look up the word "almost"!

what does Jango care about how things work? he gets cloned, he gets a considerable wages and a son which apperently he always wanted, ... sweet deal for him and if he knew more, then he knew that with the war more people would get a bounty on their head thus him getting more money from the war!

good, now please stop about maul being the one, cause he clearly wasn't!

if you read what i put, i never said that maul was the one, i I said he was as likely to be as dooku!

and dooku is far more suited for the ordering as maul, end of discussion

Dooku could get away with it much easier. I still think Syfo-dias was tricked into doing it by Sidious. Perhaps Jango killed him, eliminating the need for lightsabers.

Jango killing syfo dias aint a bad suggestion

nope, sounds possible!

thats the best one on here so far.
And good call on your last post yerrsot!

Isn't it just possible that (since Jedi do have difficult and deadly jobs) thats its possible he died sometime around when Dooku left the order and so he picked the name based on that? Simply cuz its fresh in his mind?

It's POSSIBLE...but leaving it to chance or happy coincidence like that is very un-sith. It's more likely Dooku hired Jango to kill Syfo-Dias and be the clone model at the same time.

Dooku left after QGJ died, that's exactly ten years ago
Sifo died ALMOST ten years ago, so ... he could have taken it afterwards or so

I found this on a site.



I think it's either Dooku or Palpatine. Because Palpatine was going to create the Empire, and the clones would have been the perfect way to spark it.

nice ... a site is not canon, the contence is not to be taken as truth

contents* And I wasn't going by the site. I was just showing what it said. I gave my own generalized idea of the clones.

good

i think dooku killed syfo dias, assumed his name, then ordered the troopers, super sized!!!!!!

The main objection to that is that it seems unlikely that SD died AFTER the Battle of Naboo.

I wasn't saying you were wrong, just that Obi-Wan didn't exactly say what you said, only to Mace and Yoda.

Interesting new idea I had-

Sidious/Dooku had nothing to do with ordering the clones, and Syfo-Dias simply ordered them out of a desire to do good for the republic. However, Dooku heard about it and hired Jango to kill him and be the clone model before Syfo-Dias could get back to Coruscant and tell anyone.

It's not impossible. I like to keep things simple if possible though.

I really don't think GL is that smart. o.o

without the authorisation of the Council? I doubt any Jedi (non-rogue) wouldn't think about doing that

Qui-Gon would've, if he'd thought it was necessary. Not to mention that Syfo-Dias was a member of the Jedi Council (according to the Kaminoans, anyway.). However, if he did have authorization, that would explain the look Yoda and Mace gave each other. Perhaps they had given the authorization for the clone troops, and then when Syfo was killed, they assumed the order had not been placed?

But Obi Wan says in AOTC:
"Did the council ever authorise the creation of a clone army?"
and Mace replies:
"No whoever placed that order did not have the jedi council's permission"

the Jedi promote peace. It is completely against their order to have ordered an army. And at the time they were ordered, it wasn't even needed. they had no viable indication for a coming war. that just wouldn't happen. the most plausible is Dooku, buts its not as though Palpatine is not without other agents. If its not Dooku, then it doesn't really matter, it just needs to be explained which of his lackeys it was. Him going on his own isn't impossible, I doubt the Kaminoans keep up on Republic politics. The flaw there is that Palpatine would be gone for a prolonged period of time. And we get the feeling from 1 and 2 that Sidious never leaves Coruscant, obviously because of his alter egos itinerary preventing it. as such I doubt he'd trust it to a hired help, Dooku is the most logical choice.

And if Dooku is the answer, like meph has said many times, the answer is already there in Ep II. So they might not answer the sypho Dyas mystery because it has alread been solved. We already know its the sith.

Does anybody think that Dooku and Qui-Gon were working together? Maybe behind the scenes? The Count seemed to have a liking for Qui-Gon, or at least seemed to think he'd understand some of his motives. If Dooku placed the order for the clone army under an alias did he do it before he left the Jedi or after? If it was after then someone else probably erased the Kamino records from the archives. I don't figure they just let Dooku waltz in and have a go at the place...

I have Watched the movie several times and listened hard. It was Qui-Gonn who ordered it he was using the name "Sypho-Dias" at the time and knew a war was going to happen and therefore ordered the clone army Using the name "Sypho-Dias" and the republic didn't know about his alias and they did'nt give him permission to do such a thing. and it couldn't have been Dooku because Obi-Wan says "Jedi Master Sypho-Dias died almost ten years ago and Dooku and Palpatine are still alive aren't they? Palpatine is also Darth Sidious so why would he order the army? I'm waiting for answers people!
Hurry Up I'm waiting for answers!!!!!!!!!http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/starwars.gif

Where in the blue hell did you get THAT idea? I'm not saying it's wrong, I'd just appreciate some evidence from the movie.

yeah Jango, that's just plain crazy. Jinn may disagree with the Council now and again, but he's surely not for this sort of chaos that Dooku has brought. He would not side with him. He was way to wise and intelligent. Just cause he likes to follow his own code/rules hardly makes him a possible separatist sympathizer!

As for why Sidious would order the army, let me explain again.

Republics, and democracy, are at their weakest during times of war. For example, look at the USA and the crap that's been allowed to happen in the name of the "War on Terror." (The Patriot Act and all the liberties that trampled on is a GREAT example.) Even everyone's favorite president, Abe Lincoln, abused civil liberties during the Civil War. Sidious wants the galaxy to be at war so they'll look for a strong leader-that way it'll make it that much easier for him to take over.

QGJ died ten years prior to AOTC, Sypho ALMOST ten years ago
so, he couldn't do it

and can you please say on what you base yourself? cause with what you write, if I change QGJ to Watto, it can be true as well

Palpatine may not have ordered the clones himself but I bet he was the one who wanted it done. He was WAY too pleased about the whole deal, and seemed to know it was coming, to not have had anything to do with it. When Palpatine takes over completely, and what is now the Republic becomes the Empire, he already has an army. He's way to high profile a figure to just go sneaking around ordering clones and such. Dooku is probably the one who went to Kamino and placed the actual order, with Jango Fett at his side. It stands to reason that, since Fett was working for Dooku during AOTC, and he was the model for the clones themselves, Dooku was the one posing as Sypho-Dias...

of course he was the one who wanted it done! he's the one who wants to rule the universe! he's the phantom menace, he's the sith lord!

well, it would fit if Jango really didn't care about it all, cause he was "recruited by a man named Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden", while the order came from "master syfo-dyas"

I still think that Sidious decieved Syfo-Dias into making the clones, then had Dooku hire Jango to kill him and be the clone basis.

lordly lord. thats just way too complicated for a such a simple event.

why should dooku need to hire Jango to kill him when he could do it himself

here's the simpilest way to put it, Palpatine is laying out events like that kid in ET laid out Resses Pieces. The galaxy needs a conflict for a strong leader to take over like yerrsot said. So he hands them a rebellion in the form of the separatists. they gobble it up, accepting it as a simple uprising thats getting out of hand. they start looking for an army, he hands them an army. they want victory, he hands them victory. he's letting them walk there own path into an Empire. for when the cry of the proles rises in the Senate, demanding something to stop this outrage from ever happening again, he hands them his New Order. when they want to take it out on someone, he'll hand them the jedi, the alleged "guardians" who weren't all that quick to stop Dooku because he was one of there own. That's what all of this is in as simple of terms as i can explain.

So Palpy doing an Elliot huh , great comparison by the way

Four reasons why I think this:

1) We know Jango is skilled at killing Jedi, as we saw him kill a Jedi at close range during the Battle of Geonosis. He blasted him before the Jedi could even block one blaster bolt, which is not something we've ever seen before.

2) We have never seen Dooku use a blaster, nor does it seem in his character to do so. So if Dooku killed someone, they'd have lightsaber wounds, therefore giving himself away to the council.

3) Dooku doesn't seem the type to ever get his hands dirty. Even in AOTC, he only fought the three Jedi because he was trapped in his hangar with no way out and no way to his ship. Otherwise, he tried to run, had Jango kill people, even tried to turn Obi-wan to his cause rather than just fight him. It seems like he would hire Jango rather than kill Dias himself.

4) Sidious is a megalomaniacal villain. He LOVES to manipulate people. Why on earth would he miss a chance to manipulate Syfo-Dias into ordering the clones? Blaming it on Syfo-Dias seems, again, out of his character. Not to mention the cloners on Kamino, aren't part of the republic. They'd probably take the job from Dooku just as well as from Syfo. So why give them a lie?

And in response to your "it's too complicated" argument, well, the Star Wars universe has NEVER been simple. Simple is "Yeah, Darth Vader killed your father. Now go kill him." Complex is "Darth Vader IS your father, and you have to redeem him instead of taking the easy way and killing him."

That number 1 doesn't track at all- we see other Jedi totally capable of blocking his bolts. That was either a lucky shot or that Jedi simply wasn't much good in combat. Or, more to the point, it was just something the filmmakers did not go into much detail about. The general idea that Jango was some sort of super-Jedi killer is not really shown by that one bit compared to everything else we see.

And Vader being Luke's father wasn't complex; the whole Original Trilogy was very simple indeed and all the better for it.

Always look for a simple answer.

I go with Dooku

good choice.

Ok, so you've shot down one of my points...care to try at the other three?

'Cause if not I'm still right.

there are other ways than blasters and sabers, Dooku showed he is strong wioth the darkside and uses it in hisfighting and all

he'd probably choke them. it would send a message to the Jedi since the forensics would show that there was no external trauma to crush his windpipe. The Jedi would figure that out real quick!

see, he died, and if there was anything special about it, they would have told it in the movies

Yeah, so if he was force choked the Jedi would have launched an investigation into how Syfo was killed, and they would have a lead in that it was done by someone with the power of the force. This would lead them right to Sidious before he was ready.

Blaster wounds, on the other hand, could send them down a completely wrong path...

Maybe he choked then shot Syfo's body with a blaster...Or just dumped him in space somewhere...Who knows?

no one, and I'm sure that the jedi would have had a big investigation to the death of Sifo, and clearly they found nothing

I don't want to; I agree with the possibility.