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creed and Logan from Origins(bone claws)

vs

Ozymandias


first scenario: Random encounter standard gear H2H only no fang no Claws

second scenario: all out(Claws/Fangs) team gets 2 days prep, Ozymandians gets his standard gear and 1 hour prep...

Ozy in both. With an hour prep he would destroy the team. The random encounter is the only chance they have and you handicapped them so they lose hard. If they had claws they could pull a couple wins imo

are you kidding me?? Logan/Creed massacre Ozy in the first scenario,; they are basically indestructible and much stronger than Ozy as well, plus theres two of them, Veldt has no chance in the first scenario, he would however win the second one rather easily

Scenario 1: I think the team could pull off the win here. These 2 know how to fight together and watch each others backs, if necessary. Both have powerful healing factors, and neither are slouches in the physical department either. Ozy hits really hard, but both Logan and Creed have taken harder hits and kept on going (hits from Juggs for Logan, optic blasts from Barakapool for Creed, for example). Ozy is more skilled, but he will have really hard work having enough time putting one of them down properly before the other one is on his back again. And the longer the match goes on the better it will be for the team, because they will keep healing but Ozy won't.

Scenario 2: Ozy wins easily.

Originally posted by relentless1
are you kidding me?? Logan/Creed massacre Ozy in the first scenario,; they are basically indestructible and much stronger than Ozy as well, plus theres two of them, Veldt has no chance in the first scenario, he would however win the second one rather easily

No I'm not kidding. They both rely heavily on their natural weapons and don't have any feats of fighting without them iirc. Them throwing regular punches would not be enough here

Originally posted by juggerman
No I'm not kidding. They both rely heavily on their natural weapons and don't have any feats of fighting without them iirc. Them throwing regular punches would not be enough here

Logan's elbow was strong enough to KO Blob, a guy who punched a tank shell and didn't even feel the explosion happening around his arm. Even without Adamantium when he got a good hit on Creed, he flipped him over his body and tossed him like a rag doll. He was strong enough to tank hits and rock Silver Samurai as well as fling fully grown men around like rag dolls when he fought the Yakuza as well as other times in X2 and X3. Also he was pulling like a dozen or so ninja behind him and they were getting dragged along.

And Sabretooth showcased superhuman strength as well. Like bullrushing Logan through a wall, and then immediately flipping him up and over his back like 20 feet away into some logs. Casually slinging him into an oncoming truck, and hurling him against that bulldozer.

Even without their claws, both of these guys have showcased enough strength to knock Ozy around if/when they get their hands on him.

Originally posted by KingD19
Logan's elbow was strong enough to KO Blob, a guy who punched a tank shell and didn't even feel the explosion happening around his arm. Even without Adamantium when he got a good hit on Creed, he flipped him over his body and tossed him like a rag doll. He was strong enough to tank hits and rock Silver Samurai as well as fling fully grown men around like rag dolls when he fought the Yakuza as well as other times in X2 and X3. Also he was pulling like a dozen or so ninja behind him and they were getting dragged along.

And Sabretooth showcased superhuman strength as well. Like bullrushing Logan through a wall, and then immediately flipping him up and over his back like 20 feet away into some logs. Casually slinging him into an oncoming truck, and hurling him against that bulldozer.

Even without their claws, both of these guys have showcased enough strength to knock Ozy around if/when they get their hands on him.

Everything you've mentioned from Logan was with an adamantium skeleton. Even the flipping Creed part. But regardless of that, when did either of these guys show any h2h skill without use of their claws? The answer is never. Yes they are strong but they only used hacking, slashing, and stabbing motions. They've shown experience in nothing else really so just to assume they will be able to stand up to Ozy in fistycuffs is silly.

Originally posted by juggerman
Everything you've mentioned from Logan was with an adamantium skeleton. Even the flipping Creed part. But regardless of that, when did either of these guys show any h2h skill without use of their claws? The answer is never. Yes they are strong but they only used hacking, slashing, and stabbing motions. They've shown experience in nothing else really so just to assume they will be able to stand up to Ozy in fistycuffs is silly.

No it wasn't. He flipped Creed in the lumber yard fight. The same fight where Sabretooth snapped his bone claws.

Doesn't matter though as this isn't Bone-Claw Logan anyway. So all his strength feats count.

Are you saying two highly trained soldiers(at least one who's been fighting since the Civil War days) have never learned proper h2h combat techniques? Despite decades upon decades of almost constant combat? They didn't use them for the most part because they didn't need them. But based on what we know about them, to say they can't use h2h is just ridiculous. I never saw Ozy use a gun, but does that mean I don't think he can pick one up and pull the trigger? It's common sense.

How hard is it to throw a punch? Or a kick when you're basically a humanoid cat who can run up walls and flip around like a ninja?

Originally posted by KingD19
No it wasn't. He flipped Creed in the lumber yard fight. The same fight where Sabretooth snapped his bone claws.

Doesn't matter though as this isn't Bone-Claw Logan anyway. So all his strength feats count.

Are you saying two highly trained soldiers(at least one who's been fighting since the Civil War days) have never learned proper h2h combat techniques? Despite decades upon decades of almost constant combat? They didn't use them for the most part because they didn't need them. But based on what we know about them, to say they can't use h2h is just ridiculous. I never saw Ozy use a gun, but does that mean I don't think he can pick one up and pull the trigger? It's common sense.

How hard is it to throw a punch? Or a kick when you're basically a humanoid cat who can run up walls and flip around like a ninja?

Ah I was thinking about their final fight against eachother. My bad

This is bone claw Logan. Says so in the OP

They never showed any skilled h2h feats so we cannot assume they have them. They would have as much skill as an average person unless they show otherwise. I'm not trying to assume they can't punch but they certainly aren't landing hits on Ozy when men with h2h couldn't. Not happening

Don't know how I missed the bone claw thing.

We can assume they have them when

A) Soldiers have been taught at least basic hand to hand combat since...well since soldiers have been a thing.

B) Both of them have been fighting since the Civil War era. Where they used guns and other methods to not expose themselves as mutants. They didn't just run around clawing and biting everybody.


Also are you equating Rorsarch and Nite Owl to being on the level of Logan and Sabretooth? Because with the exception of comic guys like Karate Kid, all the skill in the world doesn't help when your opponent physically outclasses you.

Originally posted by KingD19
Don't know how I missed the bone claw thing.

We can assume they have them when

A) Soldiers have been taught at least basic hand to hand combat since...well since soldiers have been a thing.

B) Both of them have been fighting since the Civil War era. Where they used guns and other methods to not expose themselves as mutants. They didn't just run around clawing and biting everybody.


Also are you equating Rorsarch and Nite Owl to being on the level of Logan and Sabretooth? Because with the exception of comic guys like Karate Kid, all the skill in the world doesn't help when your opponent physically outclasses you.

Unfortunately they never shown them "not try to expose themselves". If they did they wouldn't be joining the military where they keep records and pictures of you. Eventually they would have been discovered. And them getting shot and surviving all the time would raise eyebrows. Let's not forget the whole firing squad thing. They never took any effort to hide what they were.

Using guns is a lot different than fist fighting. But ok let's assume they've have basic military training. 1 that basic training pales in comparason to any of the Watchmen let alone Ozy and 2 seeing as how they're entire fighting style relies on their natual weaponry, I highly doubt they keep up on their h2h skills. Hell look at X-Men 1. Wolverine was getting beat up by some bum in a cage until he used his metal bone to his advantage. Can you honestly see Ozy taking on hit from that guy?

I'm equating The Watchmen's skill to the skill of the brothers here. Strength is great but unless it's like The Punisher vs The Russian level strength difference, skill still matters a great deal

Originally posted by KingD19


Are you saying two highly trained soldiers(at least one who's been fighting since the Civil War days) have never learned proper h2h combat techniques? Despite decades upon decades of almost constant combat?

See Black Widow, Winter Soldier and Steve Rogers for "proper h2h combat techniques"

leagues and leagues and leagues above anything logan or creed have demonstrated in martial arts proficiency, and coincidentally the kind of skill Ozy has. That's not to say they wont be able to damage soak their way to a victory, but they aren't doing it via their "h2h combat techniques" that's for sure.

I'm not saying the brothers are martial arts masters. I'm saying that it's impossible to be a career soldier over 100+ years and not know how to do anything aside from swing your claws and bite people, which is what Jugg was making it seem like since we never really saw them use any h2h techniques aside from doing just that.

Logan and Victor demonstrated plenty of technique fighting each other. Not to the extent of the people you mentioned, but the people you mentioned didn't have claws that could basically cut through anything so they could use their physical enhanced stats to just be wild in a fight.

And I was asking if you were equating stats from the Watchmen to the Mutants. Skill is fine, but stats do make a difference. Batroc and Rumlow for example. Both great fighters, and could probably takedown Widow/Hawkeye considering they each gave Cap a bit of trouble. But their skills didn't really matter because Cap could just beast them on stats alone.

That's what happened between Ozy, Rorscharch and Nite-Owl. Sure Ozy was a better fighter than them, but if their strength was anywhere near his own or his durability, he wouldn't have been blocking their hits so casually.

Logan and Victor are a helluva lot stronger, and Ozy can't put them down with hits.

Also Logan showed plenty of skill in his fight against Shingen, a world class samurai who'd been training in Bushido all his life.

Ozy would LITERALLY toy with them h2h... it would be a non fight. The only question would be if he could deal enough damage to KO them. With Logan he's been KO'd sometimes and other times he's resisted it. So he's kinda all over the place. Creed has a better track record there. So if Ozy can KO Logan he'll win. I honesty don't see either of them really landing on Ozy at all. Especially if he gets logan out of their

Fight no. 2 is a stomp in Ozy's favor.

Although i feel Creed and Logan have been somewhat nerfed on film, they still beat Ozy. Simply becuase they can regenerate and keep coming after Oz.

Dude Ozy is not to be **** with on H2H scenario

Ozy's "h2h" doesn't save him. He's fighting TWO savage mutants with HF. Ozy won't last. Eventually he gets cut to ribbons.

Originally posted by HellRider
Ozy's "h2h" doesn't save him. He's fighting TWO savage mutants with HF. Ozy won't last. Eventually he gets cut to ribbons.

They don't have claws tho

They can easily tag Ozy though remember they could tag Deadpool who could teleport and was also fast enought to deflect machinge gun fire with his swords.

The duo have already taken down a much more deadly foe in Barakkapool. OZy is good but he is not good or enough to beat these two at the same time.

Ozy, while much faster and more skilled, doesn't have the power to put them down.

That said, he still stomps since his standard gear involves a laser to cut them in half.

EDIT: Then again, the dude was breaking marble and concrete with his blows. Maybe he can knock them out.

^ He can certainly KO wolverine considering some of his showings. He's kinda all over the place. Creed would be harder to KO considering his showings. To me if Ozy KO's Wolverine relatively soon he wins. If not, he goes down for no. 1. He curb stomps for no. 2

Creed was KO'd by Logan via a punch in Origins iirc

True, I forgot about that. Ozy wins slightly easier now that I remember that showing

Originally posted by juggerman
Creed was KO'd by Logan via a punch in Origins iirc

Was that after he got his Adamantium?


Also the laser isn't Ozy's equipment, it was Nite-Owl II.

Originally posted by KingD19
Was that after he got his Adamantium?

Yes it was but the difference wouldn't be much different than if he were hit by someone wearing brass knuckles imo

Originally posted by juggerman
Yes it was but the difference wouldn't be much different than if he were hit by someone wearing brass knuckles imo

In that same movie he used his Adamantium elbow to KO Blob. It's far more than that using a direct comparison. You think a normal guy with a metal elbow plate would be able to knock out Blob?

Or a normal guy with brass knuckles would be able to knock out Sabretooth? Who took a concentrated optic beam to the chest that punched him through several feet of concrete? Come on.

They clearly showed off how much his Adamantium amped him.

Originally posted by KingD19
In that same movie he used his Adamantium elbow to KO Blob. It's far more than that using a direct comparison. You think a normal guy with a metal elbow plate would be able to knock out Blob?

Or a normal guy with brass knuckles would be able to knock out Sabretooth? Who took a concentrated optic beam to the chest that punched him through several feet of concrete? Come on.

They clearly showed off how much his Adamantium amped him.

How would his adamantium amp his strength? or punching power? I get his elbow and fists are harder but his punching power would be about the same if not lessened from the added weight

Also Blob wasn't KO'd

Originally posted by juggerman
How would his adamantium amp his strength? or punching power? I get his elbow and fists are harder but his punching power would be about the same if not lessened from the added weight

Also Blob wasn't KO'd

Not unconscious, but he was stunned/knocked down, etc...

And it doesn't amp his strength, but the sheer density and weight of the metal adds extra oomph behind each hit. Enough to daze and confuse a guy who punched a tank shell and ignored the explosion.

We already see Logan has enhanced strength with the Adamantium as he's tossed guys around like ragdolls with his claws before.

Originally posted by KingD19
Not unconscious, but he was stunned/knocked down, etc...

And it doesn't amp his strength, but the sheer density and weight of the metal adds extra oomph behind each hit. Enough to daze and confuse a guy who punched a tank shell and ignored the explosion.

We already see Logan has enhanced strength with the Adamantium as he's tossed guys around like ragdolls with his claws before.

I know it doesn't amp his strength which is why I said as much. That extra "oomph" as you put it wouldn't be much different than him hitting with brass knucks.

The adamantium doesn't enhance his strength at all. He has better showings with it since he was in more films with it. Not once was the metal credited for strength enhancement. All it did was make his more durable and able to cut thru just about anything