Caedus vs. Vitiate

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Stigma
Both are at their physical peak.

No amp / prep time.

Setting: Dantooine plains

NewGuy01
Vitiate, tbh.

EmperorSidious2
Caedus

Arhael
Caedus.

Board Walker
Nihilus</=/>Revan>Vitiate>Luke>Caedus>Sidious

Angelalex242
Caedus, since Vitiate is stuck in a physical form. He needs to be in spirit form to win this.

Trocity
Meh, probably Vitshit.

carthage
Legend takes this one

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Board Walker
Nihilus</=/>Revan>Vitiate>Luke>Caedus>Sidious

I have to disagree however I think you,are joking. I'd say

Luke>Sidious>Caedus>/=Vitiate>Revan>Nihilus

SunRazer
Vitiate's raw power clearly surpasses Caedus's as of the latter's death, but his general proficiency with a blade and physical talents might let him close the gap and strike the Emperor down.

NewGuy01
Doubt it will, though. Odds are that Vitiate will keep this a Force fight one way or the other.

ChaosTheory123
I'm inclined to side with Star Wars Kefka until I see if Ant's future respect thread on Caedus has anything I'm unaware of :hmm

Sinious
Vitiate wins.

S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate stomps.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I have to disagree however I think you,are joking. I'd say

Luke>Sidious>Caedus>/=Vitiate>Revan>Nihilus
Prove this with latest revelations and sources.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate stomps.


Prove this with latest revelations and sources.

Well Luke is described by Lucas and Disney hasn't changed the opinion that Luke is the most powerful force weilder there ever had or ever will be thus earning him the number one spot.

Sidious is the greates Sith Lord of all time with the feats to back it up. Also I saw the respect thread you made for vitiate and I must say well done sir I was very impressed however with that I also saw a Sidious respect thread which was made by silver which was also very well done and now I know why Sidious is the greater Sith.

Caedus and vitiate I can understand anyone putting Caedus above vitiate or vice versa.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well Luke is described by Lucas and Disney hasn't changed the opinion that Luke is the most powerful force weilder there ever had or ever will be thus earning him the number one spot.

Why do people never learn that this quote never existed?

DarthAnt66
He doesn't understand English bro... just let him be.

S_W_LeGenD
Double.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well Luke is described by Lucas and Disney hasn't changed the opinion that Luke is the most powerful force weilder there ever had or ever will be thus earning him the number one spot.
Mr. Lucas is not irrelevant. Also, he never explicitly asserted that Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Force-user ever.

Disney regards SWTOR as an alternate universe.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Sidious is the greates Sith Lord of all time with the feats to back it up. Also I saw the respect thread you made for vitiate and I must say well done sir I was very impressed however with that I also saw a Sidious respect thread which was made by silver which was also very well done and now I know why Sidious is the greater Sith.
Vitiate have superior feats.

Also, it is unclear at the moment that Vitiate adheres to Sith philosophy or not. After his return, he is not Sith Emperor but enemy.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Caedus and vitiate I can understand anyone putting Caedus above vitiate or vice versa.
Darth Caedus isn't in the league of Vitiate.

NTJack0
Caedus vaporizes Vitiate, he's garbage.

S_W_LeGenD
Fixed.

Originally posted by NTJack0
Caedus Vitiate vaporizes Vitiate Caedus, he's garbage.

FreshestSlice
You really need to calm down, LeGenD. It ain't so serious that you need to respond to every post that says Caedus can defeat Vitiate.

Anyway, Vitiate probably takes this one.

Stigma

Trocity
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Fixed.

LOL you were f***ing mad tonight, hey?

You're a goof, Legend.

Darth Demenos
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why do people never learn that this quote never existed?

how do you know it doesn't exist? just curious.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why do people never learn that this quote never existed?

Still wasn't he meant to become the greatest force weilder of all time though. He has after Anakin the most raw power and he actually honed it so I still believe he is number one even without it.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Still wasn't he meant to become the greatest force weilder of all time though. He has after Anakin the most raw power and he actually honed it so I still believe he is number one even without it.
Among the Force-users whose midichlorian count have been measured, Anakin Skywalker have highest count. This doesn't means that he have the greatest potential among all Force-users in galactic history since midichlorian count of many Force-users haven't been measured.

Here:

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force.

Taken from Star Wars: Databank (Disney)

You understand the highlighted part? This is it.

DarthAnt66
Anakin had the potential to be the most powerful Force-user in galactic history. thumb up

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Mr. Lucas is not irrelevant. Also, he never explicitly asserted that Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Force-user ever.

Disney regards SWTOR as an alternate universe.


Vitiate have superior feats.

Also, it is unclear at the moment that Vitiate adheres to Sith philosophy or not. After his return, he is not Sith Emperor but enemy.


Darth Caedus isn't in the league of Vitiate.

Still I'm sure that Luke being the Son of Anakin skywlaker who had the highest midi clorian count ever. Wasn't luke supposed to become what Anakin true potential was. With that he would be more powerful than vitiate as Anakin has the greatest raw power and Luke was supposed to become what Anakin at full power was.

I've read your respect thread and honestly I found nothing that Vititae has done that Sidious hasn't or can't replicate or defend against. So superior feats to Sidious I don't think so.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Among the Force-users whose midichlorian count have been measured, Anakin Skywalker have highest count. This doesn't means that he have the greatest potential among all Force-users in galactic history since midichlorian count of many Force-users haven't been measured.

Here:

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force.

Taken from Star Wars: Databank (Disney)

You understand the highlighted part? This is it.

Well actually that's exactly what it means. By having the greatest midiclorian count he has the greatest raw power and potential. With that he has the potential to become the greatest force weilder of all time. This would translate to his immediantl descendants having high force potential.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Still I'm sure that Luke being the Son of Anakin skywlaker who had the highest midi clorian count ever. Wasn't luke supposed to become what Anakin true potential was. With that he would be more powerful than vitiate as Anakin has the greatest raw power and Luke was supposed to become what Anakin at full power was.

I've read your respect thread and honestly I found nothing that Vititae has done that Sidious hasn't or can't replicate or defend against. So superior feats to Sidious I don't think so.
Where it is stated that Anakin Skywalker had the highest midichlorian count ever? His midichlorian count was the highest in recorded history. Try to understand the difference.

Vitiate's midichlorian count have never been measured and recorded. In addition, Vitiate's power progression is non-stop. He doesn't have a cap.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well actually that's exactly what it means. By having the greatest midiclorian count he has the greatest raw power and potential. With that he has the potential to become the greatest force weilder of all time. This would translate to his immediantl descendants having high force potential.
Not precisely.

Their is difference between "one of the most powerful" and "the most powerful."

Nephthys
Midichlorian count is pretty much irrelevant to Vitiate, dunno why its an issue.

ares834
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Disney regards SWTOR as an alternate universe.

No they don't.

The consider it non-canon.

Only us fans consider "Legends" to be an alternate universe.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Where it is stated that Anakin Skywalker had the highest midichlorian count ever? His midichlorian count was the highest in recorded history. Try to understand the difference.

Vitiate's midichlorian count have never been measured and recorded. In addition, Vitiate's power progression is non-stop. He doesn't have a cap.


Not precisely.

Their is difference between "one of the most powerful" and "the most powerful."

Well the Jedi have been going back for 25,000 years and even vitiate is younger than that I believe as he reached around 4,000 years of age and the midiclorians would have been discovered by that time as they say that even master yoda doesn't have a midiclorian count that high meaning that the test have been. Around form centuries by proven fact. So with that Vitiates is possibly recorded. Also I understand you love vitiate but he doesn't hold the top spot. Anakin had the most raw potential of any living being due to having the highest midiclorian count.


Anakin had the highest midiclorian count. That means he had a greater count than both yoda and Sidious both of which most believe to be greater than vitiate. So with that vitiate really while powerful doesn't really entire the contest of highest midiclorian count. Also he became more powerful through rituals, he was never meant to be what he was. While both yoda and Sidious were concerned with the power of the individual. As palpatine said lord vader will become more powerful than either of us.

Sinious
I'm not sure how any of this is relevant to Caedus vs Vitiate.

Selenial
Originally posted by Sinious
I'm not sure how any of this is relevant to Caedus vs Vitiate.

Legend debates like Ed Miliband answers political questions. He likes to invent his own debate, and debate that instead of answering what people actually ask of him.

Sinious
No need to single him out in this case.

AncientPower
Originally posted by ares834
No they don't.

The consider it non-canon.

Only us fans consider "Legends" to be an alternate universe.

No, disney has said that SWTOR is Bioware's own alternate universe that they won't be messing with. It isn't legends or canon? It's the SWTOR continuity.

NewGuy01
So as it stands, only the story up to the Revan novel is actually Legends!Canon?

AncientPower
Anything under the SWTOR banner I imagine, though I doubt whether or not that includes the KOTOR games.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well the Jedi have been going back for 25,000 years and even vitiate is younger than that I believe as he reached around 4,000 years of age and the midiclorians would have been discovered by that time as they say that even master yoda doesn't have a midiclorian count that high meaning that the test have been.
It is unclear that at what point in history midichlorian testing began. However, this testing procedure wasn't used during SWTOR and earlier eras.

During these ancient times, Force-users discovered other Force-sensitives by using the Force.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Around form centuries by proven fact. So with that Vitiates is possibly recorded. Also I understand you love vitiate but he doesn't hold the top spot.
Any source which affirms that Vitiate's midichlorian count is recorded?

Here is the hint: No

Your speculation is utterly baseless.

B/W I don't love fictional characters. Just because I debate for some, doesn't means that I love them. Stick to arguments at hand.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Anakin had the most raw potential of any living being due to having the highest midiclorian count.
Prove it.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Anakin had the highest midiclorian count.
In recorded history.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
That means he had a greater count than both yoda and Sidious both of which most believe to be greater than vitiate. So with that vitiate really while powerful doesn't really entire the contest of highest midiclorian count. Also he became more powerful through rituals, he was never meant to be what he was.
Not a single source explicitly confirms that Master Yoda and Darth Sidious are stronger then Vitiate. Not a single.

These characters are not even the part of the same continuity.

Your assumption in this regard, just like that of others who harbor same belief, is FANON.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
While both yoda and Sidious were concerned with the power of the individual. As palpatine said lord vader will become more powerful than either of us.
Yes, Anakin Skywalker had greater potential then Master Yoda and Darth Sidious in canon. This doesn't proves that Anakin had greater potential then Vitiate.

Vitiate's potential have no cap. He grows in power by drawing energy from others or consuming others on consistent basis.

DarthAnt66
Question: You think Anakin's potential is inferior to that of prime!Vitiate?

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is unclear that at what point in history midichlorian testing began. However, this testing procedure wasn't used during SWTOR and earlier eras. During these times, Force-users discovered other Force-sensitives by using the Force.

Your speculation have no merit.


With that Anakin was still meant to be the most powerful force weilder of all time as unlike any other character he was made through the the force. No one else so really Anakins potential is nearly limitless or at the very least indeterminate. Also Sidious told yoda vader would become more powerful than either of them both being at that point the most powerful force wielders of all time for their respective sides, with Sidious being the most powerful dark spider and yoda being the most powerful lightsider as of ROTS. So with that Vitiate would be below Anakin in terms of raw power.

Darth Demenos
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate's potential have no cap. He grows in power by drawing energy from others or consuming others on consistent basis.

Sidious actually did that hen he was on Byss. by drawing energy from all life on the planet.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Question: You think Anakin's potential is inferior to that of prime!Vitiate?
I believe that Vitiate is stronger then any mortal.

DarthAnt66
Prime Anakin is considered a mortal?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
With that Anakin was still meant to be the most powerful force weilder of all time as unlike any other character he was made through the the force.
This perception is not endorsed at official capacity.

And Vitiate's power is stated to be immeasurable.

Enduring and merciless and quite possibly unkillable, Monoliths plainly illustrate the immeasurable power of their creator and are best avoided at all costs.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor)

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
No one else so really Anakins potential is nearly limitless or at the very least indeterminate.
No, Anakin Skywalker have a midichlorian cap. In short, potential cap.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Also Sidious told yoda vader would become more powerful than either of them both being at that point the most powerful force wielders of all time for their respective sides, with Sidious being the most powerful dark spider and yoda being the most powerful lightsider as of ROTS. So with that Vitiate would be below Anakin in terms of raw power.
This is subjective matter. You are taking revelations of outdated sources at face value while the lore have considerably expanded since and Vitiate is shown to be superior then both Master Yoda and Darth Sidious.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Prime Anakin is considered a mortal?
Yes. He isn't supposed to be a godlike being.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes. He isn't supposed to be a godlike being.
He is precisely suppose to be a godlike being though.

The Father wanted him to watch his children for eternity.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He is precisely suppose to be a godlike being though.

The Father wanted him to watch his children for eternity.
Disney states that Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever. This implies that Anakin Skywalker would be rivaled even in his prime.

I am not sure if Anakin Skywalker could hold the Daughter and the Son for long even by drawing on the power of the Mortis. He refused this role.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is unclear that at what point in history midichlorian testing began. However, this testing procedure wasn't used during SWTOR and earlier eras.

During these ancient times, Force-users discovered other Force-sensitives by using the Force.


Any source which affirms that Vitiate's midichlorian count is recorded?

Here is the hint: No

Your speculation is utterly baseless.

B/W I don't love fictional characters. Just because I debate for some, doesn't means that I love them. Stick to arguments at hand.


Prove it.


In recorded history.


Not a single source explicitly confirms that Master Yoda and Darth Sidious are stronger then Vitiate. Not a single.

These characters are not even the part of the same continuity.

Your assumption in this regard, just like that of others who harbor same belief, is FANON.


Yes, Anakin Skywalker had greater potential then Master Yoda and Darth Sidious in canon. This doesn't proves that Anakin had greater potential then Vitiate.

Vitiate's potential have no cap. He grows in power by drawing energy from others or consuming others on consistent basis.

There is no source that confirms yodas or Sidious Count but we know where they stand as of power ranking.

You have a big problem with believing that vitiate is below Anakin in Raw power. Why is because of your fanboyism. Anakin was stated to have the highest midiclorian count of any known Jedi,which includes yoda who in his prime no doubt would be able to match vitiate as he was able to match Sidious.

Anakin was said to have a highest midiclorian count than any other Jedi for sure even yoda. Yoda in his prime could no doubt stalemate Vitiate so with that Anakin having greater potential would have the ability to stalemate for,sure and possibly even beat. I'm not sure if this is true but isn't it stated in a source that Anakin was to be 200% of Sidious power by ROTS so at max that would mean that he would be 100% better than DE Sidious who could definitey beat Vitiate so,with that Aankin has greater potential than Vitate.


As far as I'm concerned no source will ever state this person would have beat this person. However Sidious being the most powerful Sith Lord of all time would be a vitiate, and prime yoda in his prime is no push over either. Your belief that Vitiate has more raw potential and is the greatest force weilder of all time is fanon.


I think we can all agree that DE Sidiosu beats Vitiate and prime yoda can at least stalemate him. Again I'm not sure but wasn't Anakin supposed to be like 200% greater than ROTS Sidious.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
There is no source that confirms yodas or Sidious Count but we know where they stand as of power ranking.
And how is this valid for Vitiate?

It is officially established that Anakin Skywalker had higher midichlorian count then that of any Force-user whose midichlorian count have been recorded. Acknowledged.

However, Vitiate's midichlorian count have never been recorded. It is unknown.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
You have a big problem with believing that vitiate is below Anakin in Raw power. Why is because of your fanboyism. Anakin was stated to have the highest midiclorian count of any known Jedi,which includes yoda who in his prime no doubt would be able to match vitiate as he was able to match Sidious.
I have a problem with this theory not because of my liking but because of the ground realities of Vitiate's power progression.

Vitiate - arguably - had greater potential then any Jedi and/or Sith in his era since birth.

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. He amasses an army of Sith followers and turns his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Later on, Vitiate performed a ritual which granted him seemingly unlimited potential:

Lord Vitiate takes command of the Sith Empire, now in shambles following the Great Hyperspace War. He executes the Sith Council and consumes the life force of thousands of Sith Lords in a terrifying ritual that extends his life and vastly increases his capacity as a practitioner of the Force. Lord Vitiate declares himself Emperor of the Sith. Under his sovereign rule, the Empire retreats into deep space to rebuild its strength and prepare for vengeance.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Unlimited potential based argument is complemented by the fact that Vitiate continued to grow in power with passage of time afterwards:

Servants of the Hand share their Master's longevity, living untouched by age for centuries under his command. In return, the Emperor draws on his servant's strength in the Force and body to feed his ever-increasing power, leaving the servants withered and frail.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

---

Vitiate's power progression is virtually unlimited. Midichlorian count have become irrelevant for him because he have transcended mortality:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11113/111138626/4563768-ziost-imp-mail-03.jpg

---

Makes sense, right?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Anakin was said to have a highest midiclorian count than any other Jedi for sure even yoda. Yoda in his prime could no doubt stalemate Vitiate so with that Anakin having greater potential would have the ability to stalemate for,sure and possibly even beat.
Vitiate is apparently, logically, and demonstratively more powerful then Jedi Master Yoda.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I'm not sure if this is true but isn't it stated in a source that Anakin was to be 200% of Sidious power by ROTS so at max that would mean that he would be 100% better than DE Sidious who could definitey beat Vitiate so,with that Aankin has greater potential than Vitate.
It was a statement of Mr. Lucas and he just made a wild guess by using the term "maybe." Some fans took his assessment at face value, ignoring the "maybe" part in it.

Anakin had greater potential then (mortal) Darth Sidious, this is not questioned. However, assuming Legends material, Sidious becomes lot more powerful in Dark Empire era.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
As far as I'm concerned no source will ever state this person would have beat this person. However Sidious being the most powerful Sith Lord of all time would be a vitiate, and prime yoda in his prime is no push over either. Your belief that Vitiate has more raw potential and is the greatest force weilder of all time is fanon.
I notice flexibility in here. Good.

Sidious (mortal) holds no candle to Vitiate in power. Sidious (Dark Empire era) is comparable though. But Vitiate still have superior showings/feats. Performing Force Drain (Death Field / Deadly Field) on a planetary-scale is unparalleled demonstration of sheer raw power in the mythos thus far.

Force Drain (Death Field / Deadly Field) is among the most difficult and taxing Force powers to perform. As an example, Darth Bane had to draw on the power of a nexus to create a Deadly Field of 10 meters in diameter and it still taxed him significantly.

Can you imagine the power needed to create a Death Field / Deadly Field of planetary-scale? 8000 Sith Lords are needed.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I think we can all agree that DE Sidiosu beats Vitiate and prime yoda can at least stalemate him. Again I'm not sure but wasn't Anakin supposed to be like 200% greater than ROTS Sidious.
No.

1. Sidious (Dark Empire era) is not demonstratively more powerful then Vitiate.

2. Both Sidious (Dark Empire era) and Vitiate massively outgun Yoda in strength and demonstrations of power.

3. That assessment have no merit.

SunRazer
DE Sidious doesn't "massively" outgun Yoda.

Trocity
LeGenD is a retard though.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
DE Sidious doesn't "massively" outgun Yoda.
He does.

Originally posted by Trocity
LeGenD is a retard though.
I will let this go for now.

Now tell me your issue.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And how is this valid for Vitiate?

It is officially established that Anakin Skywalker had higher midichlorian count then that of any Force-user whose midichlorian count have been recorded. Acknowledged.

However, Vitiate's midichlorian count have never been recorded. It is unknown.


I have a problem with this theory not because of my liking but because of the ground realities of Vitiate's power progression.

Vitiate - arguably - had greater potential then any Jedi and/or Sith in his era since birth.

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. He amasses an army of Sith followers and turns his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Later on, Vitiate performed a ritual which granted him seemingly unlimited potential:

Lord Vitiate takes command of the Sith Empire, now in shambles following the Great Hyperspace War. He executes the Sith Council and consumes the life force of thousands of Sith Lords in a terrifying ritual that extends his life and vastly increases his capacity as a practitioner of the Force. Lord Vitiate declares himself Emperor of the Sith. Under his sovereign rule, the Empire retreats into deep space to rebuild its strength and prepare for vengeance.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Unlimited potential based argument is complemented by the fact that Vitiate continued to grow in power with passage of time afterwards:

Servants of the Hand share their Master's longevity, living untouched by age for centuries under his command. In return, the Emperor draws on his servant's strength in the Force and body to feed his ever-increasing power, leaving the servants withered and frail.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

---

Vitiate's power progression is virtually unlimited. Midichlorian count have become irrelevant for him because he have transcended mortality:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11113/111138626/4563768-ziost-imp-mail-03.jpg

---

Makes sense, right?


Vitiate is apparently, logically, and demonstratively more powerful then Jedi Master Yoda.


It was a statement of Mr. Lucas and he just made a wild guess by using the term "maybe." Some fans took his assessment at face value, ignoring the "maybe" part in it.

Anakin had greater potential then (mortal) Darth Sidious, this is not questioned. However, assuming Legends material, Sidious becomes lot more powerful in Dark Empire era.


I notice flexibility in here. Good.

Sidious (mortal) holds no candle to Vitiate in power. Sidious (Dark Empire era) is comparable though. But Vitiate still have superior showings/feats. Performing Force Drain (Death Field / Deadly Field) on a planetary-scale is unparalleled demonstration of sheer raw power in the mythos thus far.

Force Drain (Death Field / Deadly Field) is among the most difficult and taxing Force powers to perform. As an example, Darth Bane had to draw on the power of a nexus to create a Deadly Field of 10 meters in diameter and it still taxed him significantly.

Can you imagine the power needed to create a Death Field / Deadly Field of planetary-scale? 8000 Sith Lords are needed.


No.

1. Sidious (Dark Empire era) is not demonstratively more powerful then Vitiate.

2. Both Sidious (Dark Empire era) and Vitiate massively outgun Yoda in strength and demonstrations of power.

3. That assessment have no merit.


Since Sidious and Yoda are both more powerful than Vititae not my a huge margin but still more powerful, and both knew that vader would become more powerful than either of them, that concludes that Anakin would have the greater potential if he were to become more powerful than them.

Also wouldnt that mean. He has the highest midiclorian count of any Jedi as he was stated to become the most powerful Jedi that ever lived. Wouldn't that mean that it traces back through the jedis 25,000 year old history?

You,are seriously trying to make a case for Vitiate. Wasn't Anakin supposed to basically be the,father in his prime. The father in his prime cirbstomps Vitiate and anyone else in the universe. He said " only the chosen one could tame both my children" showing that he is the only one. With that he wanted him to take his place and with that reaching his full potential and becoming the most powerful force weilder to ever live. The Father>Vitiate.

Really he actually didn't have greater potential. He like Darth Nihilus absorbed and drained the life out of planets and people to,satisfy hismhunger and become immortal. He was never meant to be that powerful. Sidiosu by contrast got as powerful as he needed to be on his own with his own power while Vitate needed all these rituals to get started.

In the second paragraph it says it vastly increases his amounts of potential but it's not unlimited. Anakins would most likely be unlimited due to actually being created by the force itself. Also no one from Vititates era knew about Sidious or YODA LR Luke Skywalker. So really quotes from people saying vitiate is the most powerful are sorta mute as they don't know about later force wielders.

Still no where does it say or imply that he has unlimited potential. It means as of that time he still hasn't reached his limits which actually something most force,weilder who feel that sort of power would feel that they are feeding there ever growing power. Also vitiate can't grow by himself he need rituals and other so,with that palpatine is the winner as he gets his power by his own knowledge ge and training vitiate needs to feed of the life force of thousands of,people.

The blue worded paragraph that Darth Marr states. Either I'm missing something or you are just trying to find things that don't exist. The biggest thing in there says that he has no physical form so can't be detained or killed by natural means. No where does it say that Vitiate has unlimited power, is the most powerful being ever or anything. Then the quote itself will be challenged as time goes on due to reoccurring force weilder ala people like Sidious, yoda, Caedus, Luke, higher level force weilder come into play.

Vitiate is not apparently or logically better than yoda. Yoda out of his prime was able to stalemate the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Put him in his prime I have no doubt he could at the very least stalemate him. Yoda while a popular character, his character is hidden. For instance we don't know much about his backstory, and with that his feats are limited. So demonstrated power really doesn't win a battle due if you go strictly by the movies Sidious has more demonstrated power than yoda but they stalemated one another. With that put yoda in his prime, he definitly can defeat or at e least stalemate vitiate.

Really with that we don't have anything to go off of but I personsally would say that's an estimate. So really it could range from 150%-200%. Also the father himself wanted Anakin to take his place thus proving the power he had and more importantly the potential he had to become just as powerful as the father. Sidious also stated that he would become more powerful than him and yoda. So with that George Lucas' words while a guess it's still all we got and not just far off. So with I believe Aankin by reaching his full potential would have been more powerful than DE Sidious as DE Sidious no doubt was at max 100% better then his ROTS self. This also a wild guess but this however possibly giving a little to much credit to DE palpatine. However I would say it ranges anywhere from 60-100% better than ROTS. Anakin having the potential to be 200% better than ROTS Sidious and Luke being what Anakin was supposed to be that 200% might be to low as by the end of Star Wars Luke,is the most powerful force weilder ever becoming what his,father was supposed to be but possibly a little weaker as he wasn't actually his father.

All I have to say to that is that ROTS Sidious I wou don't discount him as not being able to match vitiate but DE Sidious I would say beats him. Superior showing I won't you to you to understand. All of his feats that involve rituals don't count for a 1 on 1 as he doesn't have the time or assistance to perform them. I've seen your respect thread and nothing there isn't something Sidious can't replicate, defend against, hasn't already done, or a ritual was needed to do it.

With that Vitiates power wasn't enough to do it by himself. It took him and 8000 other willing Sith Lords and about 10 days to do it. So not really impressed as it has no combative applications and it takes to long.

1. Well of course you don't agree. I don't understand why but you don't. DE Sidious is said to be the most powerful Sith of all time in fact Darth Isidous as of ROTS is said to be the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. DE is overkill he has far greater powers than before on a greater scale of magnitude and variety. Actually Sidious kinda is, in physical forms. I've read your respect thread and agin nothing in their to put vitiate on top of palpatine.

2. DE Sidiosu does but Vitiate doesn't IMO.

3. Your assessment has no merit. Yours is really and honestly fanon.

Sinious
I see you're still keeping it irrelevant to the topic.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Since Sidious and Yoda are both more powerful than Vititae not my a huge margin but still more powerful, and both knew that vader would become more powerful than either of them, that concludes that Anakin would have the greater potential if he were to become more powerful than them.
Back to square one! I am not surprised.

Darth Sidious and Master Yoda are more powerful then Vitiate based on what exactly?

Outdated sources should be treated with caution in the matters of promotion of characters.

Darth Bane is stated to be the dark side's most powerful master in an outdated source. Here is the evidence: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/4/48954/3451164-doe+back+cover.jpg

So should we assume that Darth Bane is more powerful then Vitiate?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Also wouldnt that mean. He has the highest midiclorian count of any Jedi as he was stated to become the most powerful Jedi that ever lived. Wouldn't that mean that it traces back through the jedis 25,000 year old history?
Where it is stated that Anakin Skywalker would become the most powerful Jedi ever?

Anakin is stated to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever in the Star Wars Databank. This is latest revelation and promotion.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
You,are seriously trying to make a case for Vitiate. Wasn't Anakin supposed to basically be the,father in his prime. The father in his prime cirbstomps Vitiate and anyone else in the universe. He said " only the chosen one could tame both my children" showing that he is the only one. With that he wanted him to take his place and with that reaching his full potential and becoming the most powerful force weilder to ever live. The Father>Vitiate.
The Ones are overhyped beyond measure.

Anyways, Anakin wouldn't have become as powerful as the Father. The latter believed that The Chosen One could take his place but Anakin wasn't sure about it and refused this offer.

Temporary subjugation of the Daughter and the Son by virtue of drawing on the power of the Mortis, isn't sufficient evidence of Anakin's ability to contain them. This feat is not an indication of Anakin's peak potential, rather indicative of the power of Mortis. Anakin was able to perform this feat by drawing on the power of the Mortis realm.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Really he actually didn't have greater potential. He like Darth Nihilus absorbed and drained the life out of planets and people to,satisfy hismhunger and become immortal. He was never meant to be that powerful. Sidiosu by contrast got as powerful as he needed to be on his own with his own power while Vitate needed all these rituals to get started.
You are not making any sense here.

You need to understand the difference between Medriaas (Nathema) event and Ziost (Nathema) event.

Medriaas (Nathema) event took place during 4999 BBY. For preparation of this event, Vitiate orchestrated a ritual and convinced thousands of Sith Lords to join him.

Ziost (Nathema) event took place during 3640 BBY. Vitiate performed this action single-handedly.

Between the time span of both events (4999 - 3640 BBY), Vitiate had substantially grown in power.

Clear now?

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by AncientPower
No, disney has said that SWTOR is Bioware's own alternate universe that they won't be messing with. It isn't legends or canon? It's the SWTOR continuity.
No, what Disney said is something to the effect of, "BioWare has created a wonderful universe and we won't be changing it." as in so far that, from this point on, BioWare can write their story without having to worry about ours, something BioWare could always do. Disney has also said that, "TOR is, and always has been, a part of the EU." TOR isn't so special that it has its own continuity.

Stigma
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Disney has also said that, "TOR is, and always has been, a part of the EU." TOR isn't so special that it has its own continuity.
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S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
In the second paragraph it says it vastly increases his amounts of potential but it's not unlimited.
Yes, but Vitiate's power progression is virtually unlimited.

Vitiate have the potential to become all-powerful.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Anakins would most likely be unlimited due to actually being created by the force itself.
Anakin doesn't have unlimited potential. His limit is officially defined:-

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force.

Taken from Star Wars: Databank

How many times I have to cite this information to correct you?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Also no one from Vititates era knew about Sidious or YODA LR Luke Skywalker. So really quotes from people saying vitiate is the most powerful are sorta mute as they don't know about later force wielders.
This doesn't matters. Vitiate have superior showings then all of them.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Still no where does it say or imply that he has unlimited potential. It means as of that time he still hasn't reached his limits which actually something most force,weilder who feel that sort of power would feel that they are feeding there ever growing power. Also vitiate can't grow by himself he need rituals and other so,with that palpatine is the winner as he gets his power by his own knowledge ge and training vitiate needs to feed of the life force of thousands of,people.
Again, you are making no sense here.

Vitiate will become all-powerful, if he is able to consume other beings on galactic scale. This is his peak and nothing can be better.

Living beings don't grow in power throughout their lives. They undergo natural arc of growth and decline. Living beings reach their prime at a certain point in their lives but begin to decline afterwards due to aging process. You can notice this in the example of Yoda. Want more examples?

Vitiate doesn't needs rituals to grow in power. He grows in power by using his Force Drain powers to feed on other beings.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
The blue worded paragraph that Darth Marr states. Either I'm missing something or you are just trying to find things that don't exist. The biggest thing in there says that he has no physical form so can't be detained or killed by natural means. No where does it say that Vitiate has unlimited power, is the most powerful being ever or anything. Then the quote itself will be challenged as time goes on due to reoccurring force weilder ala people like Sidious, yoda, Caedus, Luke, higher level force weilder come into play.
I am never dishonest in my disclosures, I never fabricate information. So never ever doubt my citations.

Darth Marr disclosed to his agents that Vitiate have become so powerful and evolved to such a degree that he cannot be stopped using conventional methods. This is correct because Vitiate have transcended mortality and acquired the capability to exist without a physical form. Conventional methods are not going to stop a being of such power and capabilities. Simple.

And I have addressed the unlimited power argument earlier.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Vitiate is not apparently or logically better than yoda. Yoda out of his prime was able to stalemate the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Put him in his prime I have no doubt he could at the very least stalemate him. Yoda while a popular character, his character is hidden. For instance we don't know much about his backstory, and with that his feats are limited. So demonstrated power really doesn't win a battle due if you go strictly by the movies Sidious has more demonstrated power than yoda but they stalemated one another. With that put yoda in his prime, he definitly can defeat or at e least stalemate vitiate.
I don't take that accolade seriously anymore just like that of Darth Bane due to reasons that I have already mentioned. If I am to take these promotions seriously then Darth Bane shall be regarded as the most powerful practitioner of the dark side.

Vitiate have vastly superior showings then Yoda and therefore massively outguns the latter in the matter of raw power.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Really with that we don't have anything to go off of but I personsally would say that's an estimate. So really it could range from 150%-200%. Also the father himself wanted Anakin to take his place thus proving the power he had and more importantly the potential he had to become just as powerful as the father. Sidious also stated that he would become more powerful than him and yoda. So with that George Lucas' words while a guess it's still all we got and not just far off. So with I believe Aankin by reaching his full potential would have been more powerful than DE Sidious as DE Sidious no doubt was at max 100% better then his ROTS self. This also a wild guess but this however possibly giving a little to much credit to DE palpatine. However I would say it ranges anywhere from 60-100% better than ROTS. Anakin having the potential to be 200% better than ROTS Sidious and Luke being what Anakin was supposed to be that 200% might be to low as by the end of Star Wars Luke,is the most powerful force weilder ever becoming what his,father was supposed to be but possibly a little weaker as he wasn't actually his father.
I have addressed this nonsense already. I don't feel the need to repeat myself again and again. And don't bring maths into these arguments.

DarthAnt66
Legend, no one takes your starwars.com description "retcon" of Anakin seriously. It bewilders me on why you continue to try to use it.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Legend, no one takes your starwars.com description "retcon" of Anakin seriously. It bewilders me on why you continue to try to use it.
It is not "my" description. It is the official stance of Disney about the potential of Anakin Skywalker. And it should be taken seriously. Because Disney decides what is true and not. Fans don't.

DarthAnt66
Except it shouldn't. Countless sources also label Luke and Yoda as "one of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy" despite us knowing they are in fact the greatest.

Saying Anakin Skywalker (the Chosen One) is not the most powerful being in history is pretty much just ignoring a key principle of the Star Wars galaxy itself.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
All I have to say to that is that ROTS Sidious I wou don't discount him as not being able to match vitiate but DE Sidious I would say beats him. Superior showing I won't you to you to understand. All of his feats that involve rituals don't count for a 1 on 1 as he doesn't have the time or assistance to perform them.
I am aware of only two feats of Vitiate that are ritual-centric. His other showings are not ritual-centric including the Ziost (Nathema) event.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I've seen your respect thread and nothing there isn't something Sidious can't replicate, defend against, hasn't already done, or a ritual was needed to do it.
Prove it.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
With that Vitiates power wasn't enough to do it by himself. It took him and 8000 other willing Sith Lords and about 10 days to do it. So not really impressed as it has no combative applications and it takes to long.
Here:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You need to understand the difference between Medriaas (Nathema) event and Ziost (Nathema) event.

Medriaas (Nathema) event took place during 4999 BBY. For preparation of this event, Vitiate orchestrated a ritual and convinced thousands of Sith Lords to join him.

Ziost (Nathema) event took place during 3640 BBY. Vitiate performed this action single-handedly.

Between the time span of both events (4999 - 3640 BBY), Vitiate had substantially grown in power.

Clear now?

---

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
1. Well of course you don't agree. I don't understand why but you don't. DE Sidious is said to be the most powerful Sith of all time in fact Darth Isidous as of ROTS is said to be the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. DE is overkill he has far greater powers than before on a greater scale of magnitude and variety. Actually Sidious kinda is, in physical forms. I've read your respect thread and agin nothing in their to put vitiate on top of palpatine.
I have went to great lengths to explain Vitiate's power and capabilities, created respect profiles of this matter. If you are not able to understand content featuring Vitiate, then I cannot assist you further in this regard.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
2. DE Sidiosu does but Vitiate doesn't IMO.
Wrong.

Trocity
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Fanon nonsense tbh

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except it shouldn't. Countless sources also label Luke and Yoda as "one of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy" despite us knowing they are in fact the greatest.
Here:

Yoda was a legendary Jedi Master and stronger than most in his connection with the Force.

Taken from Star Wars: Databank

Yoda is among the best but he can be surpassed.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Saying Anakin Skywalker (the Chosen One) is not the most powerful being in history is pretty much just ignoring a key principle of the Star Wars galaxy itself.
That key principal is being retconned.

At some point in the future, Disney may like to introduce characters more powerful then Anakin Skywalker. For this purpose, Disney have to redefine Anakin's hype and the entire canon content as well. Disney have already taken steps towards this end.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Trocity
Fanon nonsense tbh
You should stop trolling and come up with an argument, if you have the intellectual capability to formulate one.

Trocity
Shut up, Legend. You're the most biased debater I've ever encountered on a forum.

Engaging you in a 'legitimate' conversation is an utter waste of time.

Stigma
Originally posted by Trocity
Shut up, Legend. You're the most biased debater I've ever encountered on a forum.

Engaging you in a 'legitimate' conversation is an utter waste of time.
thumb up

Tbh everyone sees that (I hope). I'd advice you to put him on ignore tbh. I did and do not regret it smile

EDIT: On topic. I think Caedus has a fair chance to win this.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Trocity
Shut up, Legend. You're the most biased debater I've ever encountered on a forum.

Engaging you in a 'legitimate' conversation is an utter waste of time.
Agreement and/or disagreement on the matters of Star Wars is acceptable and shall be expected but trolling and being rude to others is not welcome. Either you join the conversation/debate or stay quiet.

Originally posted by Stigma
thumb up

Tbh everyone sees that (I hope). I'd advice you to put him on ignore tbh. I did and do not regret it smile
Mind your own business, you troll.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am aware of only two feats of Vitiate that are ritual-centric. His other showings are not ritual-centric including the Ziost (Nathema) event.


Prove it.


Here:



---


I have went to great lengths to explain Vitiate's power and capabilities, created respect profiles of this matter. If you are not able to understand content featuring Vitiate, then I cannot assist you further in this regard.


Wrong.

See here is my thing. From your respect thread you state how vitiate used many rituals and that's what caused the weather on Dramuand Kass is that correct? I read on Silvers Respect thread that Sidiosu was able to conjure a storm on Vjun by just being in holographic form. So with that who is more powerful, someone who needs several rituals to make it seem very cloudy on his home planet while palpatine in his below DE form during the time of Dooku was able to cause a storm without even being on the planet.

See this paragraph is where fanon comes into play. You say prove it and I say something and you say no. I've read your respect thread. My personal view, there was nothing there that Sidious couldn't defend, hasn't already done, or could replicate.


I would Hope his power grew over 1000 years. However that doesn't prove that he is on palpatines level of skill of yoda said or anything. It shows he had a power upgrade.


This paragraph is you complaining for no reason. You have told me about vitiate and after that I'm still not convinced he beats palpatine. So really you are trying to say I've gone to great lengths to change your mind but you won't change it. Well that's because Sidious is the obvious answer. While possibly not a large margin it's still large enough to where Sidious wins 7-8/10 battles.

Opinion.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
See here is my thing. From your respect thread you state how vitiate used many rituals and that's what caused the weather on Dramuand Kass is that correct? I read on Silvers Respect thread that Sidiosu was able to conjure a storm on Vjun by just being in holographic form. So with that who is more powerful, someone who needs several rituals to make it seem very cloudy on his home planet while palpatine in his below DE form during the time of Dooku was able to cause a storm without even being on the planet.
I have checked that feat of Sidious. While impressive, it cannot be compared to Vitiate's weather-altering feat on Dromund Kaas. Vitiate altered the weather conditions of Dromund Kaas on planetary-scale; impact was so severe that the notion of day and night became meaningless on Dromund Kaas, the entire planet was shrouded in darkness and storms for centuries or permanently.

Sidious stirred up a storm in the surroundings of Count Dooku and it dissipated after Sidious ended his holographic transmission. Impressive, but Vitiate's feat of similar nature is on a whole new level and have never been duplicated per my knowledge.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
See this paragraph is where fanon comes into play. You say prove it and I say something and you say no. I've read your respect thread. My personal view, there was nothing there that Sidious couldn't defend, hasn't already done, or could replicate.
Problem is with your understanding of things being discussed. See above as an indicator.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I would Hope his power grew over 1000 years. However that doesn't prove that he is on palpatines level of skill of yoda said or anything. It shows he had a power upgrade.
You would hope? Vitiate substantially grew in power in a span of 1000 years. He became so powerful that he could orchestrate Nathema event on his own.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
This paragraph is you complaining for no reason. You have told me about vitiate and after that I'm still not convinced he beats palpatine. So really you are trying to say I've gone to great lengths to change your mind but you won't change it. Well that's because Sidious is the obvious answer. While possibly not a large margin it's still large enough to where Sidious wins 7-8/10 battles.

Opinion.
I maintain that Vitiate have superior showings then Sidious.

Emperordmb
Why am I not surprised that a thread with Vitiate in it that has nothing to do with Sidious managed to turn into a Vitiate vs Sidious debate.

AncientPower
Legend is a neutral party in comparison to the likes of quanchi, just go over to movie discussion's versus forum and try to debate *insert sw character here* vs Khan(Star Trek Into Darkness), I'm sure you'll appreciate the star wars versus section after that.

Stigma
Originally posted by AncientPower
Legend is a neutral party in comparison to the likes of quanchi, just go over to movie discussion's versus forum and try to debate *insert sw character here* vs Khan(Star Trek Into Darkness), I'm sure you'll appreciate the star wars versus section after that.
LOL so true about quanchi thumb up

Still, both him and LeGenD are pretty bad.

Stigma
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Why am I not surprised that a thread with Vitiate in it that has nothing to do with Sidious managed to turn into a Vitiate vs Sidious debate.
True. I hope we can go back to Viti vs. Caedus discussion.

Sinious
thumb up

I think an argument can be made for Caedus but even before the new patches and SoR, I think Vitiate had surpassed him in the force by a margin and now the gap is even bigger.

Caedus is clearly the superior duelist as Vitiate lacks saber feats but that didn't stop him from stomping enemies who can duel much better than him. Some people claim he would be finished the moment someone closes the gap between them but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. He doesn't even try to keep the distance when he is in combat. He even prefers getting near his enemies on several occasions. If he was as vulnerable as some people think, he wouldn't be so chill about walking up to his enemies especially when you consider the fact that his main motivation is fear of death.

So I think Vitiate can exhaust him with constant force attacks and even if Caedus closes the gap at some point, Vitiate can still turn this into a force fight again and continue to pour more and more on Caedus. At some point, Caedus will be overwhelmed and fall.

Emperordmb
Would be one hell of a fight IMO

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Stigma
I think I'm going with Caedus.

He's powerful enough to withstand Vitiate's assault and skilled enough to make short work of him when he gets close.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Sinious
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I think an argument can be made for Caedus but even before the new patches and SoR, I think Vitiate had surpassed him in the force by a margin and now the gap is even bigger.

Caedus is clearly the superior duelist as Vitiate lacks saber feats but that didn't stop him from stomping enemies who can duel much better than him. Some people claim he would be finished the moment someone closes the gap between them but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. He doesn't even try to keep the distance when he is in combat. He even prefers getting near his enemies on several occasions. If he was as vulnerable as some people think, he wouldn't be so chill about walking up to his enemies especially when you consider the fact that his main motivation is fear of death.

So I think Vitiate can exhaust him with constant force attacks and even if Caedus closes the gap at some point, Vitiate can still turn this into a force fight again and continue to pour more and more on Caedus. At some point, Caedus will be overwhelmed and fall. Your acting as if Vitiate has been in a lot of confrontations. erm

He's been in two, in the first he doesn't even wield a lightsaber, but spams Force powers to keep Revan and bay.

Sure in the second confrontation he closed the gap, didn't end well though:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KY9dDL.gif

Selenial
Originally posted by Trocity
Shut up, Legend. You're the most biased debater I've ever encountered on a forum.

Engaging you in a 'legitimate' conversation is an utter waste of time.

thumb up

Stigma
Originally posted by Sinious
So I think Vitiate can exhaust him with constant force attacks and even if Caedus closes the gap at some point, Vitiate can still turn this into a force fight again
Why would he be able to turn it into the Force fight again when Caedus gets close?

When Caedus gets close, it's over.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Vitiate's raw power clearly surpasses Caedus's as of the latter's death, but his general proficiency with a blade and physical talents might let him close the gap and strike the Emperor down.
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Nephthys
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your acting as if Vitiate has been in a lot of confrontations. erm

He's been in two, in the first he doesn't even wield a lightsaber, but spams Force powers to keep Revan and bay.

Sure in the second confrontation he closed the gap, didn't end well though:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KY9dDL.gif

Vitiate's been in a lot more fights than that.

Also that's the end of the fight, at the start Vitiate freely walks up to the Hero's lightsaber without fear.

Sinious
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your acting as if Vitiate has been in a lot of confrontations. erm

He's been in two, in the first he doesn't even wield a lightsaber, but spams Force powers to keep Revan and bay.

Sure in the second confrontation he closed the gap, didn't end well though:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KY9dDL.gif

Wrong, for so many reasons.

First of all, Vitiate's been in more than 2 fights buddy. He faced lots of Jedi though under what circumstances we don't know. You're also forgetting about Braga strike team.

There are several differences between his performances in SWTOR and the novel.

In Revan, he stood still and let Revan come to him. In SWTOR, he started approaching his enemies in both occasions.

In Revan, he tries to mindrape his opponent immediately instead of taking them out first and even after failing he still tries to toy with his enemy instead of sending his potent attacks right away. In SWTOR, he sent his most powerful attack instantly and mindraped them after defeating them.

So, we have 3 fights and the Revan one is actually the least relevant one here. Vitiate's fighting characteristics have changed, evolved after Revan. He was less arrogant, smarter, more cautious yet still more confident.

When he faced HoT, he was immensely weakened as his ritual(possibly the biggest ritual ever attempted) backfired. Even then, at the end of the fight in an exhausted state, he managed to push HoT back with the force(his TK was still very powerful at this point) but HoT himself was powerful enough to stand and keep coming at him. Vitiate eventually depleted as he was already weakened by the ritual and therefor this confrontation doesn't represent his true limits as a combatant.

On the other hand, his performance against the Braga strike team is the perfect representation of his capabilities.

-mnZGdXpCd0?t=3m55s

Vitaite lets them take out their sabers, while he is standing on a very advantageous ground all the way up in his throne where he can cast a lot of attacks before they near him yet he still jumps down and closes the gap even more by walking towards them. His instant areal lightning is strong enough to subdue most of the group and he can multitask as he casts another lightning at HoT and Braga at the same time to keep them at bay as well. And again simultaneously, he charges a powerful blast while he keeps pouring more lightning at them and finally unleashes the final blow to take them out. These are perfectly executed combo attacks and while Caedus might be more powerful than the Braga team even collectively, it doesn't matter much cause Vitiate took care of the Braga team without any trouble so he can defeat more powerful opponents too just not as easily. More importantly, Vitiate grew in power after these events and on top of his first SWTOR feats, he got lots of new accolades that explain how powerful he became.

"The Dread Masters changed Oricon. Even their combined power is insignificant compared to the Emperor." said by his own Wrath. Someone who knows of both the DMs and Vitiate.

And even as of SoR, it has been confirmed that Revan stood no chance against Vitiate and Revan's not that far behind Caedus in the force.

So in full power, Vitiate can push Caedus back if he closes the gap and keep on overwhelming him with more force attacks.

Originally posted by Stigma
Why would he be able to turn it into the Force fight again when Caedus gets close?

When Caedus gets close, it's over.


Read above.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your acting as if Vitiate has been in a lot of confrontations. erm
Vitiate has been in a lot of confrontations actually.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He's been in two, in the first he doesn't even wield a lightsaber, but spams Force powers to keep Revan and bay.
Vitiate have fought and defeated many Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sure in the second confrontation he closed the gap, didn't end well though:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KY9dDL.gif
Relying on a circumstantial development and confrontation doesn't makes your argument credible. This was a one-time occurrence and Vitiate likely erred in frustration. A weakened Voice is not a true representation of Vitiate's power.

Vitiate's powers are potent enough to overwhelm conventional defenses of any Jedi and/or Sith. A lightsaber will not be good enough.

And FYI:

http://i.giflike.com/GBNhp7l.gif

Vitiate is really fast and also proficient in the use of a lightsaber.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also that's the end of the fight, at the start Vitiate freely walks up to the Hero's lightsaber without fear. Which proves nothing, considering it was that very blade that killed him.

All it proves is he is overconfident, that's a weakness not a strength.

We should also account for the fact it was a Voice, apparently, not his true body. Which might explain his confidence. I raise this because it was the threat of an adversary getting close to him i.e. Revan, that caused him to create the voices in the first place.

I doubt if it were a real body he'd be so cocky.Originally posted by Sinious
First of all, Vitiate's been in more than 2 fights buddy. He faced lots of Jedi though under what circumstances we don't know.If we don't know the circumstances then why are you assuming the details?In which instead of engaging them in lightsaber combat, he blasted them back with the Force...
He jumped down from his throne. That's hardly approaching, all it demonstrates is his confidence they could not reach him, not his willingness to engage in lightsaber combat when he wasn't even armed. laughing
Because he was up against 4(?) opponents instead of one.

That said I don't see your point, in both instances he avoided saber combat, and instead warded them off with Force-based attacks.
The majority of which he avoided saber combat in...

Except the one where it was confirmed not be his true body...

Changed, evolved? Seriously? The guy has been trashing Jedi for almost a thousand years, why would he suddenly switch up tactics? If anything the fact he created the Voices indicated he was more wary, all your seeing is confidence he can beat those particular opponents.

But by all means, let him come, let me walk up to Caedus' blade and boast, it will merely make cutting him down all the more easy.True, but then Caedus is more powerful than the HoT and at the very least the fact he lost debunks it as proof against the fact Caedus will defeat him in sabers.Again because "you stand there because I allow it, because I do not fear", it is quite obvious that Vitiate was confident they couldn't get close to him, not that if they did, he could deal with it. Not that any of them had skills close to that of Caedus.
Baseless speculation, granted being stronger than any one member of the Jedi Strike Team is no guarantee one could withstand such as an assault, but its hardly proof such an attack to take out Caedus. The fact that Vitiate required a Force storm, multiple blasts of lightning and a massive explosion of energy just to render them unconscious suggests Caedus can handle it, or that Vitiate's confidence is proof of skill.

Nor where they in a position to fight back, Caedus is, he has Force powers of his own and if Revan can knock him flat, so can Caedus. Difference is Caedus can close the gap before Vitiate gets up.
Those accolades you provided aren't proof Vitiate got more powerful, as that could well have been the power he held as of the JK Act 2 ending, and the fact that the Wrath has never been in the Emperor's presence doesn't add much stock to his claim.He's quite far behind...He can hold Caedus back until Caedus knocks him on his ass, then its all over.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate have fought and defeated many Jedi and Sith.Usually by mental domination or by some other Force power, not in lightsaber combat.I'm not the one who brought up Vitiate's confrontations with Jedi as proof of his skill...Source?Proficient isn't going to cut it, Vitiate's ability to block and swing is hardly comparable to Caedus' skill.

Nor is Lana Beniko anywhere near Caedus' league in terms of speed and strength, the fact that she was outclassed by a fraction of the Emperor's power is not impressive.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Usually by mental domination or by some other Force power, not in lightsaber combat.
Maybe but my point is that Vitiate have fought 'many' individuals.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm not the one who brought up Vitiate's confrontations with Jedi as proof of his skill...
Then why cite that circumstantial development?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Source?
Evidence is in the footage of confrontation between the Jedi Strike Team led by Master Tol Braga and Vitiate. The Jedi used their lightsabers in this confrontation but got overwhelmed and their lightsabers most likely disintegrated.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Proficient isn't going to cut it, Vitiate's ability to block and swing is hardly comparable to Caedus' skill.

Nor is Lana Beniko anywhere near Caedus' league in terms of speed and strength, the fact that she was outclassed by a fraction of the Emperor's power is not impressive.
You make it sound like as if Lana Beniko is incompetent in the use of a lightsaber, she is not. And she is officially stated to possess 'great' strength.

Vitiate was also able to contend with Hero of Tython in a lightsaber duel while possessing Kira Carsen. FYI, Hero of Tython is among the most skilled lightsaber combatants.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Which proves nothing, considering it was that very blade that killed him.

All it proves is he is overconfident, that's a weakness not a strength.

We should also account for the fact it was a Voice, apparently, not his true body. Which might explain his confidence. I raise this because it was the threat of an adversary getting close to him i.e. Revan, that caused him to create the voices in the first place.

I doubt if it were a real body he'd be so cocky.

Uh, yes it does. He and the Hero still managed to have an apocalyptic battle, despite Vitiate starting the fight with her saber brushing his cheek. This proves that he can manage close range engagements in some manner or disengage and put enough distance between he and the Hero before she could move her blade a foot forward.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Maybe but my point is that Vitiate have fought 'many' individuals.Well that's nice.To debunk it as proof of Vitiate's skill.Unless you can prove that any one member of that Jedi Strike Team are the most powerful Force users ever, it is not proof that, and I quote:

Vitiate's powers are potent enough to overwhelm conventional defenses of any Jedi and/or Sith.

Try again.She's not in Caedus' league, she's not even close, end of story.Well before the Hero of Tython's prime and yet was still beaten.

thumb upOriginally posted by Nephthys
Uh, yes it does. He and the Hero still managed to have an apocalyptic battle, despite Vitiate starting the fight with her saber brushing his cheek. This proves that he can manage close range engagements in some manner or disengage and put enough distance between he and the Hero before she could move her blade a foot forward. Well I guess it proves he won't get blitzed, I'll give you that.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well that's nice.
Indeed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
To debunk it as proof of Vitiate's skill.
What skill?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Unless you can prove that any one member of that Jedi Strike Team are the most powerful Force users ever, it is not proof that, and I quote:

Vitiate's powers are potent enough to overwhelm conventional defenses of any Jedi and/or Sith.

Try again.
Each among them is one of the strongest Jedi of the Order. And Vitiate overwhelmed their defenses collectively.

Vitiate also overwhelmed defenses of Revan. And Revan is one of the most powerful Jedi in galactic history.

In addition:

His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred. The Emperor can wither and ruin even the strongest Jedi's connection to the light side.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

Originally posted by Beniboybling
She's not in Caedus' league, she's not even close, end of story.
And I have take your word for it, right?

I am not asserting that Lana Beniko is as strong and capable as Darth Caedus but my point is that she should not be underestimated either. She paled in comparison to Vitiate but this doesn't means that she is average.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well before the Hero of Tython's prime and yet was still beaten.
Hero of Tython was already an expert swordsman during this time.

Stigma
I have to agree with LeGenD. Fabulous points thumb up

Sinious
Originally posted by Beniboybling
If we don't know the circumstances then why are you assuming the details?
I only corrected you when you posted false information. I made no assumptions on Vitiate's unknown fights.

Again, I never claimed it wasn't a force fight. What's your point?

I see that you misunderstood my post. I'm not saying Vitiate wanted to duel his opponents or is actually a great duelist. I've already said Caedus is a much better duelist since Vitiate lacks proper feats. My point is that he isn't as vulnerable as you think in melee. His confidence and not attempting to keep the distance pretty much tells us that he doesn't careif his opponent is near him or not that much. He gets really close to HoT for example and the fight begins when there is like a meter between them. So the whole "Caedus destroys once he closes the gap" argument doesn't really make much sense.

Not sure why you're talking about things completely irrelevant to the subject at hand.

Except HoT already got close to him in Chapter 3 and he didn't seem to have a problem fighting even when weakened. Oh and the fact that Vitiate is the one who walked down to him pretty much proves Vitiate isn't as vulnerable as you think. thumb up


Do you think Caedus could defeat Braga team as easily as Vitiate?


LOL @ hinting Vitiate didn't grow in power after the novel and would repeat the same mistakes he did in the book even though he didn't ever again.

So what? That would only elevate HoT and Braga Team and if not, then Vitiate did get more powerful.

Nah. Btw, are we using Vitiate's increase in power in the patches in this thread or are we avoiding anything after JK Storyline ending?

Stigma
Originally posted by Sinious
Do you think Caedus could defeat Braga team as easily as Vitiate?
Funny you ask.... He did defeat a superior TOR team in this thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=607672

Sinious
LOL I remember that thread. I'm not sure if he can defeat that team though.

Stigma
Yeah, good times.


I also made this thread with Braga team facing Vader. Vader won imho.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t611228.html

Sinious
I'm not sure if Vader can take them. I guess it depends on how high you rank Scourge and so Act 2 HoT.

FreshestSlice
Nowhere near high enough.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm not the one who brought up Vitiate's confrontations with Jedi as proof of his skill... Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What skill?That's the most sense you've said in a long time. thumb upOriginally posted by Sinious
I see that you misunderstood my post. I'm not saying Vitiate wanted to duel his opponents or is actually a great duelist. I've already said Caedus is a much better duelist since Vitiate lacks proper feats. My point is that he isn't as vulnerable as you think in melee. His confidence and not attempting to keep the distance pretty much tells us that he doesn't careif his opponent is near him or not that much. He gets really close to HoT for example and the fight begins when there is like a meter between them. So the whole "Caedus destroys once he closes the gap" argument doesn't really make much sense.I understood your point just fine, to which I responded that he wasn't afraid to get close (though he really didn't) because he was confident they couldn't touch him, not that because he thought he could handle them if they closed the gap, he was confident that that simply would not happen.

But even if what you were saying were the case, Vitiate's confidence he could handle the Jedi Strike Team (who are not on his level regardless) in combat isn't proof he can handle Caedus, especially considering he overestimated his ability to defeat the HoT.

Fact is Vitiate doesn't have the feats to back up his boasts. Even Legend admits he has no skill. rolling on floor laughing Didn't have a problem? The guy died. Clearly he did have a problem, and was vulnerable. thumb upHe would dispatch them pretty handily.Care to clarify on those mistakes?

And you realise Caedus is considerably more powerful than Revan, yes?So it means that Vitiate could not do better, if that was what you were trying to insinuate.Considering they were performed in spirit form I don't take them into account.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's the most sense you've said in a long time.
A demonstration of Vitiate's skill:

http://i.giflike.com/GBNhp7l.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Fact is Vitiate doesn't have the feats to back up his boasts. Even Legend admits he has no skill. rolling on floor laughing
Vitiate is competent with a lightsaber, but doesn't prefers it as an offensive option.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He would dispatch them pretty handily.
Speculation

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And you realise Caedus is considerably more powerful than Revan, yes?
Nonsense

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